Whoa,sister,let me take it all in...
First question: was your husband on the same page as you financially when you first married?
If not,his lack of work ethics may never change.If he hasnt always been "money driven" he probably never will be.
If he was,and just changed,maybe he too is going through a self esteem thing and is in a slump.Must be hard to watch your business crumble.
Money problems can take any happy marriage and squash it easily.Fact,I think I read most couples fight about money more then anything else.(I know me and my husband do)

I think it would be a very good idea for you too pay off the sba loan of 55k. Maybe if you didnt feel so weighed down by bills,it would ease some of the tension between you.Because you are basicly the only one working,the stress of the money seems yours to bare.
However,you are MARRIED,so that means husband has a right to buy clothes,cds,dinners...none of those things sounds sbnormally high priced.Now if you said he was splurging on brand new stereos or expensive things that you have no real use for,then you could complain.But everyone wants a new cd or dinner to pick them up once and a while.And he needs clothes even if he isnt working.

I'm mostly concerned about the porn thing.I think if you two were having more meaningful sex together,that you also wouldnt be so tense.
Porn is fine every now and then,but it lacks connection with you.

I know all about Vulvadynia,my sister has it.So I understand sex can be painful.Maybe you could ask for some numbing creme (what they gave sis so sex wouldnt hurt so much)
That way you could still bond with husband.
It is important that you bond through sex.If you are already having money troubles,and not having sex,and you have no kids keeping to together~sooner or later one or the both of you will lose intrest and want out.
A size 10 for someone of your height doesnt sound fat to me at all.It is important to let husband know that he hurts you when he says things like that.And more importantly that he know that even the women in his porn do not really look like that in person.I wouldnt want to have sex with someone making me feel unattractive either.

Most people hate this response,(including me)but therapy may be the best option for you.

10 years is a long time,so I congratulate you on that.It is very hard to keep a marriage going...and most people either grow closer or apart in that time.

I think...it is really over when everything is at a stand still and stagnant.When neither person refuses to budge.When you no longer can find goodness in each other's actions.Or feel joy just to see each other.

I wish you and your husband the best.I hope you can work things out.

"I think...it is really over when everything is at a stand still and stagnant.When neither (either) person refuses to budge.When you no longer can find goodness in each other's actions.Or feel joy just to see each other."

bingo.

I think every marriage goes through up and downs. As I'm sure you know, there will be times when marriage feels very stagnant and you're not particularly happy to see your spouse, etc... It could just be a very bad phase in your marriage.

It sounds to me like your husband could be suffering from depression too. I would bet it may even bother him that you are the bread winner and he is somewhat of a failure; and I'm sure he's probably a little insecure about the fact that you don't enjoy sex with him (even if that's nobody's fault). The financial/home role reversal is probably hard on many marriages.

I wouldn't totally write him off just yet. Maybe some counseling would work. Obvously, some drastic things need to change.

I doubt you are ever going get him to do his fair share of house-husband house work though; from the men that I know that stay at home, it just doesn't happen. Personally, I think he should get a job outside the house. He just needs a little push and maybe a specific date. What does his mother think of his lifestyle?

Normally, I don't like getting in-laws involved but if you get along with his mom and she's reasonable (not the my-son-can-do-no-wrong type) then maybe she could even help push him. I would use their relationship to your advantage if you don't think it could backfire especially since you're considering divorce and don't really have that much to loose.

And, of course I would hold off on having kids right now. But, I hope you're not counting on the fact that if you leave your husband, your true prince charming will be there waiting right around the corner for you to marry and start your family with. He may not be there. Then again, you may be able to have children way into your 40's so who knows. Good luck, nonetheless.

No, I have no intention of getting married again. I think that is one reason why I have stayed...all the other men I know may have jobs and provide for their family, but they can be real jerks. If I were to get divorced I would not be seeking out a new relationship...not to say that I many not find someone down the road. I would probably end up adopting a child. I have told him that I will not have a baby until we work things out...IMO it would just be plain dumb on my part to do so.

I do agree that he needs to be able to buy things like clothes etc. Its just that for the past three months we have not had enough money to pay the min payments on all our bills. I just added his revenue up from Mar - Nov and it was $15k before his $1200 per month SBA loan and business costs. Basically, if he didn't live with me, he wouldn't be able to afford a house, apt, clothes or food. KWIM?

I think you are right - we need to go to counseling. We did that a few years ago before the business, and it helped. I don't know if his mom would be of help or not. She recently wanted us to go to Australia for $12k, even though he told her we might file for bankruptcy. Maybe she doesn't know how bad it is. I think she would be happy to have him move back home. She never did get remarried and lives by herself. But, since I am thinking of leaving, maybe its something to consider.

Maybe a hard push is what he needs and I do think he suffers from depression - he also has a family history of it and he has ADHD too, but won't take meds for it. I am just getting tired of pushing. If we could just get rid of the business and he went back to work it would take a lot of stress and pressure off.

I do have lidocaine cream to use for se&, but its getting in the mood after dealing with physical pain and all the issues in our marriage. I just feel like I am drained and when I get home from work and I just want to go to bed, which I know doesn't help anything. I try to be pleasant, because having the same conversation over and over just makes me so mad. So, I guess right now we are both in advoidance.

Time to look for a counselor. Maybe a third party can help bring some clarity. I don't think I am quite ready to give up on us.

I have heard career women call the radio psychologists when they are successful in their careers, but are married to a man with absolutely no drive...and they begin to lose respect for their husbands. I think that like you, they begin to feel like his mother, instead of his wife, and they resent the responsibility of being put in that position. Or of being made to feel like the only adult in the relationship. Like you, they feel used. I know two people who have lived in such a relationship. Both are still married. One still did the housework, on top of her career, AND cooked and helped the kids with their homework. The kids are grown and out of the house, and do not have a great deal of respect for him. The other I have not seen in ages, but I imagine a similar senario. I do not know what to tell you, other than I would not bring a child into this relationship, unless you are prepared to be the sole breadwinner until you retire. It does not sound as if he is going to grow up any time soon. The two men I know in this situation, never did work, and if they did take a job, they quit shortly after. I guess in many ways, they are very self centered. They really do not want to work, and are content to let their wives carry all of the weight. Only you can decide if you can accept that, and build your life with him and not resent him for it.

Yes, you are right, I do have a lot of resentment. He will sporadically do things around the house, but its usually half done. I think he has cleaned the toilets twice in 10 years. He did call me at work today to ask what cleaner to use to wipe the counters down. It would be really nice to come home to a clean house! When we both were working we had a house cleaner which was really nice. And we would try to split cooking duties.

I guess he never has been too responsible unless forced to be. From the beginning he could not have a debit card or checkbook because he would overdraw the account and not even tell me. Or a credit card...because he would max it out, not make the payments and be months behind. I had all our credit cards and cars paid off 6 years ago. We did have to get new cars as the other ones lived their useful life. But, then when the business tanked the credit cards got maxed out. I have been saying for a year and half that its not working. Nov was the first month my salary wouldn't cover the payments for everything, so now it looks like bankruptcy is the only option and we will file in March.

I think if I could convince him to go back to work, even if he just got a photography job at a studio for $12 an hour things would be better, assuming he will go for selling the house to pay off the SBA loan. He used to be in IT and made decent money, but there were days he would just call in and do nothing all day. I know he hated his job.

I don't think I can live the way things are. I hope whenever we can meet with a counselor he will be open to change. Its kinda up to him at this point.

"Its kinda up to him at this point"

Yeah -- But what is HE going to do? (nothing)
That means it's still all up to you.

Sometimes we all need a major adjustment, a major life turnaround, and it sounds like your husband needs one now. It also sounds like he knows it, but is too 'stuck' in inertia to do anything about it for himself.

It would be a great kindness if you could get him into treatment for depression. Or at least have him professionally evaluated for it. It certainly sounds like he's depressed, and with depression in his family?... Depression medication can make a world of difference for some people.

At the same time, see if he will agree to a modest exercise program. Just a little walk in the morning to air out the mental cobwebs and get his blood flowing. Things tend to sort themselves out when you're walking, and I'm betting that if he'll agree to do those two things, that his life (and yours) will start looking a whole lot less bleak.

Is there anything at all you can do to stave off bankruptcy for a few months to see if the depression treatment helps?

Good ideas! I have been on him to get a physical and maybe the doctor could do a depression screen to. I don't know if I can get him to take medicine for it or not...he is very anti-medicine.

He wanted a gym membership, so we signed him up for one, but he hasn't used it in the past two months since getting it. Maybe he would go?

We won't be filing bankruptcy until March, but we are so far in the hole that I don't think there is a way to dig out. Just to make the min credit card and SBA loan payments he would need to bring in about $3k per month. That would be about $50k per year and that is just for the min payments and now our interest rates are up to 30%, so we wouldn't be paying anything off. RIght now we are about $4600 behind in credit card payments. I have been able to keep the mortgage, autos and utilities paid. The SBA loan is current for Jan, but I am worried about Feb as he will not have any income coming in. The loan officer has waved the principal in the past and added it to the balance, so that is a possibilty.

Other things that weigh on my mind, but I think could be worked out, is he is an atheist. I didn't know this when we got married. We were married in his mom's church and he never mentioned it. I knew he wasn't super religous or anything, but I never knew he didn't believe in a god. I would't say I am super religous by anymeans, but I do believe in God. On XMAS and Easter I would like to go to church and if we had kids I would want to take them to Sunday School. While this on the surface doesn't seem like a big deal it does crop up a lot. My mom and sister are pretty religous as is his mom. Many times he will make comments to me after they have left making fun of their beliefs or even mine for that matter. I try to tell him he is in the minority and that most of the world believes in god and he should show some tolerance. Its not a huge deal, but if we were ever to have kids I don't know how it would works when two people are so different. Its not like I am asking him to change his beliefs, but just to show some respect. KWIM?

Really any big controversial issue you can name we are on different sides. Although I am becoming more liberal as I age.

I think if we could work the money/job issues out, we could deal with the other issues.

Any ideas on the best way to find a good counselor?

coolmama - what drugs does your sister use? I can usually control the pain to some degree now, but the desire is gone and I am not sure its going to come back on its own. Has she found anything for that aspect?

Due to your lack of money, you should call around for costs on counseling. They can range from very inexpensive...some churches may offer free counseling to over $100 per hour for a very experienced counselor.

It is alarming that as you are facing bankruptcy, he STILL is unmotivated to go out and do something! Most people would expect their partner to pull their weight and work as a team in such a situation. It would be absolutely alarming to be in that situation, and the partner is just sitting home playing computer games!!! Depression? Perhaps. Or maybe he is just sticking his head in the sand (massive denial) hoping the problem just goes away...or that you take care of him and fix it. He needs to question why he is unwilling to work as a team to address the financial problems in your marriage.

I think this thread is pretty amazing. After 10 years with someone exhibiting the behaviors the OP described, I would have a pretty hard time being sympathetic -- or hopeful. Past a point, the actions and action-avoidance speak so loudly the reasons for it -- whatever they may be -- don't matter much. Obviously my tolerance level for what the OP has described is far lower than hers -- or any of yours -- but I can't imagine attempting to build a life with this many-times-tested loser.

Please, please, please don't have babies with this man.

well,asolo,It's just when you've been with someone THAT long,it is much harder to just "walk away".
And marriage is supposed to be,"For better or worse"
I have been married 10 years too,and there has been many times I just wanted to walk away...but somehow we always got over the hump and our love would feel re-newed again.

I'm probably not the best example,because maybe I'm co-dependant.But it feels to me at this point like my husband and I are the same person.(he feels the same by the way) It just doesnt feel right unless he is there.

OK... And your still in this relationship WHY?? You and he are on two different paths in life... you have no children to consider.... you seem to have very little in common....
Im sorry if it sounds harsh but you sound miserable. IMO you need to move forward. I think that there are too many things that you two would have to overcome to make a stable relationship, especially if you want to have children. You need to ask yourself... Is it worth the time energy? or would it be less stress to just say .... "we are too different.... lets go our separate ways"

wishing you all the strength you need to find your path ...

I also think that you should meet with a debt counseling service (look for a reputable one...I think there are lots of bad ones in this industry) to see if there is ANYTHING you can do to avoid bankruptcy!!! Bankruptcy will stay on your record something like 7-10 YEARS, and if I am not mistaken, it may also be a question on job employment applications...and if so, it could affect your future employment opportunities, and ability to earn a decent income...so be FULLY INFORMED, AND AWARE on ALL of the various ways this will impact your life!!! With your income, you obviously are doing pretty well career wise. Make sure ahead of time what a bankruptcy will do to your life, your career prospects and ability to earn a good income if you lost your job and had to be in the job market again, housing (could you even rent a decent place with a bankruptcy on your record?) etc. A bankruptcy may have some far reaching ramifications. I know so little about this, but I would advise you to know the answers BEFORE you file for bankruptcy on how this will affect your life for the next 7-10 YEARS!!!

You need to understand WHY he is so unmotivated to do something, when the two of you are faced with financial disaster. What is causing him to sit back and let something like this happen and not at least attempt to spring to life and make every effort to prevent financial disaster, if he at least tried?

The first thing I would do would be to bring him to meet with a financial debt counselor and sit down with this person together and ask what the ramifications are long term if you file for bankruptcy. I would then look at a few job applications, and see if they ask if you have ever filed for bankruptcy. I am guessing that many companies pull a credit report when checking on potential hires, and how would this affect either of your chances for future employment, if that is on your record. I do not know the answers to any of this, but would still advise you to find out. I do believe that landholders obviously pull credit reports before renting to someone, because they would need to know whether you pay your bills on time, so they know if they can count on their rent payments on time.

Another area to find out would be that if you have a bankruptcy on file, would you get a far higher interest rate on loans, than the average person.

Anyway, gather facts, before you file, so that you know how this will affect you over the next decade of your life.

Just my 2 cents for whatever it is worth. I do not know anything about this, but I would find the answers if I were in your position.

Sometimes I think the question "Do I love him?" isn't the right one to ask, and that "Do I *like* him?" "Do I respect him?" "Do I enjoy spending time with him or do I prefer the time we're apart? and "Is he really the right person to complete my life team?" are the better questions.

Love is hard to define, and it's hard not to fall back on that automatic "of course I do" answer that is expected. But the other questions are easier to answer and certainly contribute to the longevity of whatever loving feelings are there.

But marriage isn't just about love. It's a life partnership, and both partners need to contribute. Contributions can be monetary, logistical, emotional, sexual -- and they certainly alternate from time to time. But if one partner's carrying all the weight and the other partner isn't contributing, then it's time for a change. I'm all for the in sickness and in health part, but only to the extent that the sickness can't be avoided or improved. I know depression is debilitating, and that the inability to initiate change is part of it -- but if he refuses to make a change , you're only short-changing yourself by remaining tied to a sinking ship.

The poster who pointed out that that you don't have kids, and therefore aren't tied down, has a point. If your husband is unwilling to even attempt to contribute fairly, then it's self-destructive on your part to stay.

If you have children with him & he becomes a "stay-at-home dad":

1) he won't take care of the children any more responsibly than he's cleaned the toilets &

2) if you get a divorce, he'll get custody of the children & you'll pay child support.

If you *ever* want a family, you'll be better off as a single parent.

& add my name to what going bonkers said.

For heaven's sake--you've got enough material for a novel. So the answer is pretty simple--if you love drama and angst then stay married to him. If you want a normal husband who goes to work and likes what he does, is enthused about you, and interested in what you do, and wants sex, then I guess you are going to have to move on and get out of this arrangement. There are a lot of wonderful guys out there but they are normal and for some women thats boring.
It was important to me that my husband have a career that he likes, a good education, and love me dearly. Thats what I got (among other good things
) I have no idea what other people have on their priority list that they end up with the men they get.
The reason I bring this up is that I have friends who have left one husband only to end up with the same kind of guy with different colored hair.

Thank you, everyone, for your comments. Its really helped me put things in perspective. We had a good ratiopnal, non emotional talk this weekend and he has agreed that he needs to go back to work and dump the business. Which was hard for him to admit that is has failed. I used his wanting to keep the house as motivation. Basically, after saying if he didn't get a very good paying job, I was going to sell the house and rent a cheaper place, and seeing me look for rentals online, I guess he realized I was serious. He did tell me that he is depressed and feels horrible for his business failing.

I told him, "I don't want you to feel bad for the business failing. It just wasn't right for us and you only need to feel bad if you decide to dwell on it and not move forward". Which is really how I feel.

So, that is a giant step in the right direction. Now, I just need to see if he actually starts looking and gets a job. I told him I would help him with his resume and I have contacts at some recruiting companies. I don't mind helping as long as he is really making an effort.

I am willing to give it a few more months to see what happens.

Some of you guys asked why I am with this person. In a nutshell, he is the best type of person anyone in my extended family has ever married or been with. Most of the women in my family marry alcoholic wife beaters and have 5 kids with them or one with each next husband. Perhaps I set my expectations too low, but they were miles higher than anything I knew. In fact, they always accussed me of being too picky!

Again, thank you for your advice!

Having been in a marriage similar to the one you described I can understand your predicament. Thankfully in my case he at least worked he just jumped around from job to job at random and was totally unreliable. When he would get fired it would take a while for him to really even look for a job. Our divorce was final 2 days before our 9th anniversary and it was the best decision I ever made. It was a very difficult decision to make and it was not an easy process but I am so much better for it. Ironically we get along better now that we have been divorced for a while. Just my thoughts

Get out, before you waste any more of your precious life. If you read your posts, and reflect on your marriage, you will see a cycle, and patterns. They permeate your marriage, in things large and small. They are not going to change, no matter how much you think there's been a 'giant step in the right direction'. The cycle and the patterns will continue, and you'll find yourself 5, 10, 15 years older, in exactly the same spot.

I lived it, and have several friends who also lived it. Different times, different dynamics, but every one of us finally got out, and it's the best thing we ever did. My personal regret is that I wasted so many years trying with him.

I agree with some of the posters about leaving him. The fact that he is ready to now get a job could be a way of keeping you there or he may be ready to turn over a new leaf. I'd keep my options open. I left a man who decided to start his business into our fifteenth year of marriage. Walked away from a very good job. He worked just enough to pay some bills and buy alcohol. I lost respect for him and he was finding fault with everything I did. He had plenty of free time on his hands to become very controlling and watch everything I did. Not that I needed watching but he thought so. The day we had our heart to heart talk about all our problems and his drinking was the day he threw me out of our house and I never went back. He is now working about two days a week and lays drunk the rest of the time. I knew it was over the fifteenth year but decided to stay cuz marriage is suppose to be forever.

Just thought I would pop back in.

Doesn't god hate lazy people too who refuse to help themselves or take care of their family?

We went to visit both our families this weekend...about an hour away. We were supposed to eat lunch with my family today.

He had wanted to stay at his mom's and I wanted to stay at my mom's (more comfy bed), so he said lets split up.

We ate dinner with his mom Sat night, she offered to pay and he grabbed the check and said no we will pay. Then proceeds to hand it to me since he has no $$$. I don't know why but I paid. I should have said something. His mom knows we are having trouble - he told her we are declaring bankruptcy and I told her the business has failed.

So I call him at 12 today to say I was on my way to pick him up. He says no I have to go home to work we need to leave now. I said that we already had plans and he could eat with us if he wanted or stay at his moms, and I would pick him up afterwards.. He chose to stay there and sulk.

His mom pissed me off as she knew we had plans with my family and she says to me on the phone when I called to talk to him at 12...oh we are celebrating aunt so and so's birthday today at such and such place if you want to go there instead.

Then we get home at 5pm and he goes to bed. He hasn't had any photoshoots in a month, so any work he might have is from over a month ago. Plus he never mentioned he needed to leave at 12 even when I spoke with him the night before. Whatever.

y mom asked what was wrong, because clearly I was upset, even though I was trying to hold it all in. So against my more rational judgement I kinda told her what was going on. I really didn't know what she would say...she is pretty religous. She said, well I hope he gets it together and you don't have to get divorced, but you can't keep wasting your life and always having to push him. I was pretty suprised. I thought she might say, that its not that bad and it would be wrong to divorce. I told her I would feel like a failure for getting a divorce and she was very reassuring that isn't the case. (Note: She is divorced, but my dad beat her all the time and finally she left after 11 years - the church told her she shouldn't)

I mentioned the only way he will probably find a new job is if I do his resume and send it out. She said she wouldn't do that...that he needs to do it himself and if not, then he has made his choice and I shouldn't feel bad to have him leave.

Then my brother arrived at lunch and asked where my husband was since he figured he would be at lunch. I told him less. Brother is younger than me and has his own business and really likes my husband...considers him a brother. I just said he was in a bad mood, that the business wasn't going well. Brother said that he had talked to him at XMAS trying to help...suggesting sales calls, networking, inviting him to his business assoc. mtgs etc. I said he hasn't went on one sale call, sent out any direct mail, phone calls or trade shows ever in three years, doesn't call his customers back when they have complaints and has a bad rating with the better business bureau. He said, well he could turn it around, but it would require 80 hr work weeks, tons of sales calls, resolving issues etc. He said it doesn't sound like that will work. I was very calm just matter of fact with my family...not emotional, not saying I hate him etc. Just the busines isn't working and that I told him he needs to go back to work. Brother asked how much the business is making, if I didn't mind saying, which I didn't...I told him $615...he thought that was per week....I said, no that is per year. He agreed time to say goodbye to it. He did say his 1st three businesses didn't succeed, but that he doesn't have a "sugar mamma" so if he doesn't work he doesn't eat. Then went on to say its not fair to me to have live that way.

Of course I asked each of them to keep this confidental.

I really hadn't planned on saying anything to my family since I embarrassed about the entire thing and also because if we do reconcile I do not want them to hold a grudge, but I think the way I presented it, that will not be the case. Plus my family typically doesn't hold grudges.

I didn't tell my brother I was thinking about a divorce though. Not really ready to tell everyone. Hopefully it wasn't a mistake to mention it to my mom.

I delivered all the bankruptcy forms and support docs to our atty this week and we will file March 15. I found a new job that pays 10k more as my current employer eliminated by job in Dec and I have been doing data entry work for the past four weeks, so I start that in a week. It will involve some travel. Even with the increase we still qualify for the bankruptcy, thank god, because I can barely pay all the nessecary bills.

Thank you all for listening to my vent...I really needed to get that out.

I am willing to give it to the end of May. If he doesn't have a job by then, I am done. It makes me cry just typing that out.

I'm embarrassed about the entire thing and also because if we do reconcile I do not want them to hold a grudge.

Oh boy, how many times I said that. In retrospect, I think certain men *count on that*. I'm so sorry.

I am so sorry, too, for your heartache. Talking to people will help you.

Be good to yourself, try meditation, its a great comfort.

Popi

Are you really sure you want to file for bankruptcy? I think that this is going to follow you for years. Please re-read my post on Sat. Jan 6th. I am sorry everything is so hard for you right now. I wish you good things.

I found this quote on a web-site.
"Another reason to be serious in considering a divorce is that, no matter how much you've tried to resolve matters, things are not working out. You feel,that despite your best efforts,you are trapped in a destructive life situation, one that you do not want to continue. If being apart from your spouse, ending the relationship is the only normal and healthy way for you to live, then divorce is the realistic answer."