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Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

Posted by reflex (My Page) on
Thu, Jul 20, 06 at 21:36

Hello all, I'm new to this forum so I apologize in advance for any breaches of ettiquete.

I am looking into the possibility of a manufactured home, to be purchased around the end of 2007 or so. After researching whats available locally, the floor plans, prices, construction quality and BBB ratings, Marlette has been the most impressive so far. What I am wondering is if there are any 'gotchas' I should be aware of, if anyone here has any experience positive or negative with Marlette, and if there are any other forums or websites devoted to reviews of the various manufacturers, so far all I have found in that regard are industry sites with nothing by people who have actually purchased the homes...

I am still planning to tour the factory before making any decisions, as I said above I am not doing this for another year and a half or so.

Any information would be greatly appreciated, my goal is to put it somewhere in western Washington state, prefferably on 5-10 acres of land with a well and septic system not too distant from a small town. I'm basically trading in city life(Seattle area) and a decent salary for country living and a home I could actually pay off within a year or two rather than the 30 year ball and chain I own currently.

I have seen several people reference Nashua in this forum while browsing, but they do not seem to have a main website with all their models listed, only individual dealer sites, anyone got a link to their main home page?


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

I'm new here too (please forgive the intrusion) and the more I learn about MH (double-wides), the more nervous I get. I may be faced with a quick relocation to upstate NY. My parents are giving me 2 acres of land to put a house on and for my budget and timing considerations, the double wide seems to be a good deal. I'm concerned about the best type of foundation to have, especially in the north eastern part of the country. HELP! Any other precautions I need to be aware of? Homes to stay away from? Thank you!


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

Hi. I own a double wide in Taylor TExas. My advise to you is to research the laws of your state, the federal laws from the Code of Federal Regulations. This is not to scare you but to educate you in what you are about to get in to. Forget using the BBB. The retailers and manufacturers know how to keep you from knowing their consumer complaints. You will also find out how they avoid warranty work. I have spent my time since Nov. 2004 fighting with the reatiler, manufacturer and the Texas Department of Housing and Community Affairs. I lost my job, the retailer and manufacturer damaged my home more when they did the repair work (by the way, it was so extensive, they had to take the home completely apart)and the State of Texas allowed them to do so. You will find out that as long as they attempt to repair. that is all they have to do. Even if it is the worst work you've ever seen. You'll find that you are the reason that you home has problems.
If you think I am ficticious about my story, I have photos, video and voice recordings of what took place.
My Advice. STAY AWAY FROM MOBILE HOMES. That is what you will find out about a "manufactured home".
There is a website called "The American Internet Society of Manufactured Home Owners". If you really want to know what is going on with so-called manufactured homes take a look.
Everyone who is involved with the sell, repair or inspection of a manufactured home is working the system. They know how to make you the source of the homes problems.
Sorry, I don't have my website up and going, but if I do that, I will be the manufacturer and retailers scapegoat.
I will do it soon.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

It is REALLY important to find a reputable dealer. Like everything else, some are good and some are crooks. We love our Nashua and no we have no connection with the company or the dealer. Just a happy customer. I've included the link below which does have some (maybe not all?) floorplans. Keep in mind that one can do a LOT of modifying, to customize the home. If at all possible visit the factories of several manufacturers. to me the top of the heap are Nashua, Guerdon, & Fuqua in the NW USA. A blanket statement to stay away from all mobile homes is crazy talk and irresponsible. Like any other purchase take your time and do your homework. Check the BBB and other customers. Same with the contractors who do the foundation work etc.

Here is a link that might be useful: Nashua


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

Pay no attention to Alvie. He's just a diagruntled customer that didn't do enough research and got burned. And naturally it's all everyone else's fault.
Marlette makes a good product. They've been around for a long time and if they were like Alvie says all manufactured home companies are, they would have beem out of business long ago.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

I'm not bothering with Alviec, I have heard all of that before and in some cases its true and in some cases it appears not to be. Obviously you do your own research.

As for brands, I have to say that I am not impressed with Fuqua, I toured their homes recently and when I asked them some questions I was not happy with the answers. For one the interior walls were nearly all 2x3, which means they can be easily warped, the flooring is pressboard which is fine until you have a leak of any kind and then the floor gets spongy. A lot of other details seemed 'cheap' as well.

I have reached some conclusions on what is absolutely necessary for a reliable home: 2x6 exterior walls and floor joists, 2x4 interior walls, 2x6 marriage lines, and the floors need to be tongue & groove and not made of pressboard. The only brands that meet those qualifications that I have found dealers for in WA state so far have been Marlette and Palm Harbor.

I would be interested in seeing Nashua as well since they came well reccomended but I can't find a dealer within a reasonable distance unfortuntatly...


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

http://mfdhousing.com/discus/

Several forums there, some for those in the industry, some for owners of manufactured housing.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

I'd suggest reading one of John Grissim's books (amazon.com). They are just fabulous on all aspects of manufactured homes.
Good luck.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

Thanks for the help guys, much appreciated. Still researching, I'm a bit over a year from a purchase so still plenty of time to figure things out...


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

If you are moving to upstate NY, be aware that not all counties allow manufactured homes. I don't think Onondaga county does, for instance.

We recently toured some All American brand modular homes at a local dealer. We liked them better than manufactured double-wides we'd also toured (Champion, Redmond, and others). Anyone have experience with modulars? These are roughly the same size and price as new double-wides, but are built with stronger materials and construction techniques.

Modulars performed well during Hurricane Andrew, for example, according to FEMA reports.

We hope to find a community in the Northeast that accepts modulars, not just manufactured, homes within the next 2 years.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

Sorry, I'm a newbie and hadn't read all the previous threads, so my questions sound "dumb"...I'll go crawl back into my corner and read some more. :)


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

I'm a real estate appraiser and I would not buy a manufactured home. They lose value very quickly. Look into a Modular if you are trying to save some money. It's worth it.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

Manufactured homes in parks lose value very quickly. As with any other piece of property, location, location, location helps determine value.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

The difference is simple. A mobile/manufactured home is a trailer. It depreciates because it is made from cheap inferior materials. Yes, I know some look absolutely great, but they are still considered to be trailers. The value will go down, not up.

A modular home is equivalent to a stick built site home and will be mortgaged the same way. Ours was put up in January of this year. The price was $85,000. (We figure it cost us about $20,000 for the basement and another $20,000 for the septic and well. We did all the work ourselves. We just last month decided we wanted a mortgage and it appraised at $175,000. Now, granted the appraisal includes utilities (septic and well and elect.) but still, that is quite a value-increase in only 7 months in the country where values raise very slowly.

Yes, you are looking for a home, not an investment but there is a reason why a modular/stick built is a better value. It is made to last!!!


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

I have a question (also a newbie) We own a 2000 Skyline, it's wonderful and built great and we've never had any problems with it. We are hoping to move it to land because to be perfectly honest most stick built homes in our price range are pieces of crap and cannot hold a candle to our home. I'm curious why people on here say a manufactured home depreciates in value, once it's on land it's the same as any other house in my opinion. Plus if they depreciate then how come in my area at least a manufactured home on land will still cost you around $125,000, sometimes greatly more??? To me, considering a manufactured home in a park is only worth about $25,000 at best, seems to be a pretty significant jump once it's on land.

As to your question, definately do some research, yes modular's look nicer in the long run, but a lot of them are also much more expensive and the latest manufactured homes look much like a modular for a lesser price. Like I've said we've had zero problems with our house and it's a 2000 model.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

Hi. call me disgruntled. Your probably from the manufactured housing industry. Those who do not want the consumer to know about the lack of enforcement for mobile homes. I love it you've called me disgruntled. My facts are correct. I invite you to contact me. I have plenty of documentation and photos, recorded conversations and more to back my statements. My main reason is to educate you before you get yourself into a mess. All you have to do is query damage, deception, retailer, manufactured homes, lawsuits or anything related to the manufactured housing industry. Those that state to ignore me haven't read enough about them. Or they are connected to the industry. Do your research before you buy. Check the BBB, your state agency for retailer violations, the consumer's union is a great way to find out about the nightmares of mobile homeowners. You probably have an advocacy group in your state. Why? Because people are being taken advantage of and the industry does not want you to know that.
Check out the US Fire Administrations website on death in mobile homes. Check reliable sources, not something the industry has created. And if you want to call me disgruntled, that is ok, since I am in to my 2nd year of trying to get my "new" home warranty work completed.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

alviec - The mistake being made here is that you are assuming that you and a few other people's personal anecdotes, no matter how terrible they are, are representative of the entire industry. They are not. That is not to say that people do not get screwed by unscrupulous dealers, or that there are not poorly manufactured homes. One thing I found in my research is that there is a hell of a difference between top of the line and the bottom, and its definatly buyer beware.

That said, I could point you to any number of bad stories about used car sales, and whole communities devoted to hating the used car market. That does not mean however that if you do your research, examine the car your going to purchase, and have someone qualified check things out that you will buy a lemon no matter what. Some used cars are well worth the money, many are not.

Its really no different than any product. You do get what you pay for, and when I see a manufactured home going for $50-60k I know damned well that its not going to compare favorably with a site-built home. But when I'm looking at a $140k Marlette, and after touring the factories its plainly obvious that the home is built to the same standards as a site built home, well, I don't really see the drawback.

Now, all that said, I am personally leaning away from a manufactured home. Why? Because I can get a home of comparable quality from a 'high efficiency builder' for about the same price, with the main difference being that it will appreciate in value. If the price of the home is roughly the same, the argument for a manufactured goes down considerably.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

"...The difference is simple. A mobile/manufactured home is a trailer. It depreciates because it is made from cheap inferior materials. Yes, I know some look absolutely great, but they are still considered to be trailers. The value will go down, not up..."
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This is NOT true. If you purchase a manufactured home and put it on your own property with a permanent foundation it WILL increase in value! Just like any other permanent home. No, it will not resell for as much as a site built or modular, but the initial cost was lower also. There's a 6 year old double wide home on two acres near us that sold recently for over $200,000. There was a bidding war on it by two buyers. So yes, they DO appreciate. And it qualified for a regular bank mortgage.

And as far as inferior materials, again not true. The BASIC mobile home starts with HUD specs. But nobody stops at that point anymore. All states are different when it comes to housing and HUD spec housing simply cannot be set in most states. Up here in VT the houses must have snow load roofing whereas in Florida they don't. There must be minimum distances between outer wall studs in some states. 16" vs 24" OC. Some codes require 2x6 exterior walls today. So 2x4 walls cannot be included in the manufactured home. Heck, there's a dealer nearby that had a log sided double wide in his lot. But not for very long! Once that's set I dare anyone driving by to know it was a manufactured home. There is now a cape style manufactured home on their lot. Complete with an upstairs! But it does have a metal frame on both sections so it is indeed a Manufactured home. And it will DEvalue? Nope!

So please don't paint all manufactured housing with the same brush. There are some extremely nice manufactured homes out there today. There's even a manufactured home park in Florida where the price of admission STARTS at $1,000,000.00! I was watching it on the Travel Channel the other night.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

Please don't disregard Alviec's comments. There is a lot of truth there. Thank goodness there are many happy endings for people buying manufactured homes, but there are horror stories and we are going through a nightmare now with ours. We researched, shopped, did our home work, etc for 6yrs looking for the right home, manufacturer and dealer. We finally found a lot in Kennewick, WA that sold Marlette. We found a home and had it set on our lot and that was about where it ended.

We called the lot when we started finding water on the inside of an exterior wall. The yard had sold and the new owner would not stand behind anything. We called Marlette and the lady at the other end told me to be a good homeowner, do the maintenance, and caulk around the windows. We caulked, but the water didn't stop. We called the BBB and they said that we couldn't do anything since there was a new owner at the lot. Finally we called the Marlette factory in Hermiston, OR and talked to the service manager to see what he had to suggest; if he had anyone he would recommend that was knowledgeable about fixing manufactured homes. He gave us a name, we called and set an appointment for them to come and look at it. About the time they were suppose to show up they called and said they didnt do service anymore, go look in the yellow pages. Now no one at Marlette will return a phone call or anything. My husband pulled back shingle to take a look and he found several missing bolts that tie the sections together, two bolts are attached to nothing, and nails sticking up and rubbing holes in the shingles. We were sick after seeing that. We may go to the state building and safety dept to see if we can get help.

We have a friend who bought one at the same time from Valley Quality based in Yakima, WA and they are happy with the home and the service they have. They are good quality homes and kick ourselves for not going with them or a modular. Our insurance guy bought a Marlette, He is having problems. We had a roofer out, he has a manufactured home, he is having problems. If you get a manufactured home be there through the whole process. Inspect the work because they may not be there when you find a problem a couple years down the road. They wont stand behind anything. Its about like buying a used car anymore. Please reflect on the good and bad replies to your post.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

My husband pulled back shingle to take a look and he found several missing bolts that tie the sections together, two bolts are attached to nothing, and nails sticking up and rubbing holes in the shingles.
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As cruel as this may sound, Marlette had nothing to do with that problem. That was the DEALER'S fault! He is the one you go after as he did a bad job of buttoning up the home. And if you purchased direcrly from Marlette where is your HOW warranty? The company that set the home is responsible here whoever that is. And if it was an independent company then you go after them.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

Hi.

Well industry guys, I must admit, you all want the consumer to think these mobile homes are skillfully built. Full of great bells and whistles. I admire you're ability to entice consumers to think a person(me) stating info here is probably "disgruntled" or something to that nature.

Fact is, your very industry forced me to educate myself on your tactics and the CFR's Congress put in place to hopefully keep you guys from taking advantage of consumers.
Another fact is, these things are mobile homes. How do they get to the consumers property? On wheels.

I have yet to find a consumer in my area who has not had one thing or another go wrong with their mobile homes. Funny thing is that all of us have a different manufacturer. I thought I saw a typo in this thread. $1,000,000 for a mobile home. These people either have lost their mental abilities or nothing better to do with their money.

Consumers:
Read the Code of Federal Regulations 24 CFR 3280 - Manufactured Home Construction and Safety Standards and 24 CFR 3282 - MANUFACTURED HOME PROCEDURAL AND ENFORCEMENT REGULATIONS
Before you buy. Not after. Know what you are up against.
Don't take the word of a slick "industry" person trying to convince you that I am bad. If you do? Don't say I didn't warn you. They don't want you to know the truth about mobile home safety. Check with the U.S. Fire Administration about mobile home fires. I don't think they lie. Do your homework now, not after the industry takes your money.

Oh, and don't let the installer/retailer/manufacturer take your "running gear" either. That is theft. You own it. It is part of your home.
It is in the regulations. Read it in both the regulations. It is an "integral" part of your home. Not money in their pockets.

Thank you for your time. ;-)


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

No one said you are 'bad'. All anyone has said is that buyer should beware, just as your saying. But I do contend that there are absolutely quality manufactured homes, its not all crap. And I'd take one over the poorly built tract homes I'm seeing tossed up all over the place.

I don't work for the industry, I actually work for a large software developer. You don't have to be part of the industry to recognize that some models are quite nice, irrespective of the bells and whistles. Some are also crap.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

"...I thought I saw a typo in this thread. $1,000,000 for a mobile home. These people either have lost their mental abilities or nothing better to do with their money..."

No Alvie, you didn't see a typo. The mobile home park in Florida does indeed start at one MILLION dollars. But these are people that also own a MILLION DOLLAR custom built motor home to travel the country and want someplace to park when they're in Florida.

The mobile homes are about 3,500 square feet and up so they're not exactly single wides. And they are built to Flodida codes for hurricane strength, etc.

There's a guy over on the cars forum that's tilting aginst the same kind of windmill you are. He wants to make GM go out of business because he got a bad car from them.

I'm not an industry rep. I have a small modular home that's 3 years old and I live in Vermont. But I LIKE my modular! And that's what makes us different.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

>There's a guy over on the cars forum that's tilting aginst the same kind of windmill you are. He wants to make GM go out of business because he got a bad car from them.

Funny, Christopherh. That was my initial immpression about this guy. Are the anti-GM guy's arguments so weak that he also has to resort to calling those who disagree with him "industry reps?"

Wayne


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

Hi,

One must understand that I am not out to put anyone out of business. The main objective here is to educate the consumer so the industry will clean up the process of building manufactured home to be safe and not to cut corners to jeapordize the safety of such consumers.
With today's technology, it should not be difficult to update these methods. Unless. The objective is to not provide the consumer with safety and durability.
One must also reazlize that when so much money is spent in a venture such as the one in Florida, who is going to reveal the non-compliance of such homes to keep consumers from wanting to buy them and possibly blowing the whole venture.
Granted Florida may be more "stringent" on regulations, but the problem is why does this type of enforecement not take place everwhere. Is a tornado or earthquake not just as damaging as a hurricane?
Does one only care about the safety only in a Zone II area and not a Zone I? This is not a very good way of looking at safety is it? Ask yourself this question. Am I that cold hearted to be selfish and predjudice that only people in my "zone" should receive a mobile home that will endure a hurricane and not a tornado or earthquake? Much less a drastic fire in the home. Are the children's welfare not taken into consideration?
The U.S. Fire Administration has its own section about fire safety in regards to mobile/manufactured homes. Why would this be?

Please don't take offense to what I say unless you are somehow involved in the industry and want to persuade the consumer that this is not true. Consumers' educate yourself.
Best regards, ;-)


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

You say your objective is to "educate the consumer." Yet nearly every member who posts here is subjected to your extreme opinion. You are not educating anyone with the following:
- "My Advice. STAY AWAY FROM MOBILE HOMES."
- "You'll find mostly "lemons."- "They are all put together very poorly."
- "Everyone who is involved with the sell, repair or inspection of a manufactured home is working the system."
- "STAY AWAY from MANUFACTURED HOMES. THEY ARE POORLY CONSTRUCTED."
- "Don't take the word of these guys in the industry who could care less about your safety."

It may surprise you to know that, as far as I can tell, those here who see through your obvious purpose are not "industry reps" but members who rightfully question your statements and agenda.

Wayne


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

Boy. You guys are touchy. I must have struck a nerve or something. lol. For someone not to be affiliated with the industry. I'm not sure why it bothers you so much. Take a chill pill, cold shower or something.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

Alvie, each STATE has it's own regulations. Florida has hurricane issues whereas Vermont has snow issues. Should an entire industry make the same home for ALL these issues? Absoultely not.

Maybe your state has lax regulations. So go to your state representanive and talk to him/her. Explain how the manufactured home industry is selling poor quality homes in YOUR state and shafting the people. But don't knock an entire industry because you got a home built to the specs in YOUR state. There's an excellent chance that your home would be illegal here in Vermont.

And what's this about "zone I and zone II?" I have yet to see ANY home withstand a tornado! And do you have earthquakes where you live? No home up here is earthquake proof either. We need a pitched roof because we can get 3 fet of snow in one storm. We need 6 inch outside walls because it can go to 40 below in January. These are things you don't need where you live.
So why should the "industry" make all homes the same when the needs are different?


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

The thing is, I'd be willing to bet that the quality standards he is applying to manufactured homes also wouldn't be met by many of the mass built site homes either. It amazes me the poor quality I see on some of those going up around here in WA state.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

First, what should it matter where the home is located. Does ths mean if they built a home in Texas and shipped to another area that would be ok? Would you trust it? Wouldn't you question its ability to withstand what yuou mentioned?

And by the way, if each state is regulating something that is not equal to the MHCSS, somebody is violating Federal Laws.

That's why they call them "Manufactured Home Construction and Safety Standards". and not "Stick Built Construction and Safety Standards". Duh.
And yes they aren't built too well either. But this is a forum for Mobile Homes, not stick built homes.

AND.

"quality standards he is applying to manufactured homes also wouldn't be met by many of the mass built site homes either"
Thank you for admitting these mobile homes are not built very well.

Chatwith you later. ;-)


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

"...First, what should it matter where the home is located. Does ths mean if they built a home in Texas and shipped to another area that would be ok?..."

No it would not be OK. The home has to meet the specs in the state where it is set, not where it's manufactured.

"...And by the way, if each state is regulating something that is not equal to the MHCSS, somebody is violating Federal Laws..."

Each state is different. Many states use the Federal minimums and many states have much higher standards. My state has much higher standards than yours. Because the people of VT want it that way and we told out legislators to make sure the homes are built right. But if your home wasn't built to your state's standards, it's up to you to find out why. And if laws have been broken, have an attorney look into it for you.

But like I said before, talk to your State Representantive.They work for you and you employ them. Go to his/her local office and sit down. Complaining on a forum will get you nowhere. But your VOTE does count! (You DO vote, don't you?)


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

alivec - And this is why you are not being taken seriously. Your willingness to take quotes out of context to draw the conclusions you wish to draw is an elementary school debating tactic, not a technique for serious discussion. Grow up or get lost, your not 'educating' anyone here by simply behaving like an ass.

As for what you said, you are (intentionally) missing the point. The federal standards are the bare minimum. States then are free to add additional standards which they do. Where the home is manufacturered is irrelevant, when the home is placed on a site it must meet the standards appropriate to the state, county, city and neighborhood standards, regardless of who made it and where they were located. So, if the home you bought was crappy and only up to federal specs, then you need to as pointed out by others, lobby your state and local governments to impose higher standards appropriate to your area and conditions since obviously your area has inferior standards to other areas of the country. Having family in Texas, I can see that as being the case since they don't seem to give a damn about their citizens, only about talking about how much greater than the rest of the country they are while they compete for larger and larger SUV's and blast air conditioning out of buildings with the windows open(I was in San Antonio a few weeks ago, I am NOT exaggerating).

Fix your own damn problems in your state with your own housing codes before you try and tell everyone else that we are screwed because of your personal experience and lack of decent state government regulations.

In my state, there is an additional set of standards they have to meet due to the frequency of earthquakes in the northwest, btw, but things like hurricane straps are not mandatory since, well, we don't get hit by hurricanes.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

OK. so why are we argusing? Cursing is not the way to conduct yourself. I know Texas has problems with mobile homes. If you are so educated on this matter. why are you not assisting instead of name calling. It is obvious you are upset. Why?
My "tactics" are not childish. But if that is the way you choose to look at it. Then it is your right to do so, as it is my right to do this.

I have talked to the following:
Congressman John Carters office
State Representative Mike Krusee
Governor Rick Perry's office
My Senator
The Executive Director of the Texas Department of Housing and Community Affairs- MFG housing Div.
Ron Collins HUD

and not a one of them give a darn about this issue or any other consumer in Texas. It is a shame and my votes are going elsewhere.

And no I am not going anywhere.

You people must be violent up there. I would never talk to someone the way you do. You should be ashamed of yourself. And if not I will pray for you.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

Save your prayers. You come on this forum and crap on everyone's threads implying they are foolish because they do not see the world as you choose to. Why would you then expect respect? Take your crusade elsewhere, no one here is interested.

BTW, this is my thread, I started it and you hijacked it into your personal little vendetta against the industry. Unless you have something to contribute to the post at the top, get lost as you are not answering the questions I raised.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

You are pitiful. Call it a crusade or what ever. If you know or knew so much what did you start the thread for? Or is this just a tactic by industry persons to lure the consumers into buying one of these poorly constructed mobile home death traps by posting "any information is appreciated". At least now, any consumer who wanders into this "thread" can see you're mentality. And the tactics of industry people. Keep it up. lol.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

I started the thread three months ago and have done a lot of study since, as I have mentioned in followup posts.

BTW, calling the homes 'death traps' is slander. Do you have proof of your claims?

Can you contribute meaningfully to this thread in any way, or are you going to continue being an ass and disrupting attempts at meaningful discussion? Why don't you start your own thread rather than hijacking mine like a forum troll?


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

You mean someone just spent over $200,000 on a manufactured "deathtrap"? How is that doublewide a "deathtrap"? It's a very nice home with a 8/12 pitched roof, 2x6 walls, Pella windows, and on 2+ acres of land.

Alvie, you got taken by a bad dealer. And now you want to paint an entire industry with a broad brush. It won't work. Many many people are VERY happy in their mobile homes. You are in a distinct minority.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

christopherh - How dare you defend the industry, you must be an industry rep in order to ever say anything nice about manufactured homes! Every single person who owns one is unhappy with it, so I know you lie! Furthermore, the homes ALL fall apart within the first few years, so all those home listings with manufactured homes on owned property from the 70's, 80's and 90's are all fake, put up on MLS by sneaky manufactured home companies!

Our evil scheme won't succeed, not when we have a super hero like alviec here to save those poor, unsuspecting home buyers from us unscrupulous types who obviously work for the manufactured home industry just due to the fact tha we dare call for reasoned discussion on the topic!


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

DRAT! Foiled again!!!

Just for the record:
I have a modular home in Vermont that I happen to like a lot.
I have a woodstove in my home and use it as a primary heat source and use the oil burner as backup.
I am a professional crafter by trade. I do craft shows and art fairs for a living.
I drive an evil SUV (Ford Expedition) and tow a crago trailer with my product all over the northeast doing shows.

I am anything BUT an industry rep.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

Does this guy ever mention the brand he bought? Probably involved in a law suit and not able to. I wonder if it's Fleetwood or Oakwood. A two minute internet search would tell you it might not be a good idea...

My husband and I were considering buying a modular and putting it on some land a few years ago. I spend countless hours searching the internet, buying books and talking to people. I spent a good deal of time just comparing the specs of different brands. We looked at a great deal of model homes. I eventually found a brand that had great specs, an impeccable reputation and not only allowed, but encouraged people to tour the factory while their home was being built. (They only distribute in New England so it was not out of the question that most people could and would take advantage of that.) They were more expensive than most other brands, but you get what you pay for. I also found a dealer that not only had a stellar reputation, but had been in business for 40 years. I know, at least in Maine, word of mouth is king and you don't stay in business that long by screwing people. In the end, the land deal fell apart and we ended up buying an existing home, but I learned a lot and wouldn't hesitate to buy one of their homes.

The reason this guy irritates me to no end is that he got a bum deal and now ALL manufactured homes are crap, ANYONE that buys one is an idiot and if someone makes a case for buying one, they MUST work in the industry. Rules of logic dictate that it just isn't the case. But you generally don't hear from the folks that are happy with their homes. And he is perpetuating the myth that ALL MH are junk.

Val (the irritated science lab tech)


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

Getting somewhat back on topic, has anyone here had any experience with panel homes? I am reading a lot of good things about building with SIPs(Structural Insulated Panels), and it has begun to sway my thinking in that direction.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

I have a surprise for everyone. I live in the wilds of the ARK ozarks. No bldg codes to obey.I,ve lived in the same mobile home (a single wide) for 15 years. It,s in the middle of my 30 acres of land. We built a roof over it ,good underpinning, a huge screen porch across the front.Some nice outbuildings. It still look as good as new and havent had any defect problems with it. I have no doubt it will last well the rest of my life. I wish my appliances would have lasted as well. Did i mention i have a fountain in my living room that is like a running mountain waterfall.
It was paid for in 5 years. The value has risen astronomically. I'm retired and was an EMT, Never worked for nor do i know anyone who worked for a mobile home factory nor a salesmanship.
A person will have to look into available info and make up their own minds What they want to take a chance on. I,m not sure i,d want to take a chance on a double wide as it has a seam in the middle that could leak if it was,nt put together right. Just my opinion.Good Luck with your decision.
alviec, bless your heart,don't get so frustrated with everything.
oakleif


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

And I quote "Fires in manufactured homes claim the lives of over 300 Americans each year and injure 700 more. Many of these fires are caused by heating and electrical system malfunctions and improper storage of combustibles. You can prevent the loss of life and property resulting from fires in manufactured homes by being able to identify potential hazards and following the safety tips contained in the factsheets on this page."

From the U.S Fire Adminstration.

I'll leave you industry people alone. You are out to convince the consumer and I wil pray for you people I really feel sorry for someone who does not have a concience and would rather overlook the safety of the consumer rather than correct the quality of a mobile home.
But, hey, I can sleep at night with a clear consious.
With today's technology, why is it the industry still lives in and relies on the old ways of making a mobile home? Because it puts more money in the industries pockets.
So, now. You guys have your fun with my comments. At leats the consumer who reviews this thread will have something to think about.
You have already admitted these mobile homes are poorly built or quality is not met. I have nothing else to point out. So, consumers, who are rading this? Read up on consumer's union, The Wisconsin Mfd Home Owners , HADD, TAISMHO, or any other web search in regards to safety, law suits, defects, noncompliance, imminent safety hazards, serious defects, mold, etc about these mobile homes before you think about buying. Don't take the word of these people "pretending" to be consumers. They are trying to sucker you in to helping pay their salary or bonus or whatever.

Slander? How can this be?
Slander is a spoken defamation
Defamation, sometimes called "defamation of character", is spoken or written words that falsely and negatively reflect on a living person's reputation.

Is the mobile home alive? Is it a living person?

I think not.

Good day.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

And good day to you too sir. ;)

Anyways, moving on, who here has done any research on panel homes using SIPs?


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

>I'll leave you industry people alone.

Pathetic. Any readers of these threads, if they needed to know more about the members posting here, could look up other threads in the various forums and see there is but a single one-issue, agenda-driven troll amongst us.

Educating consumers, my behind. Your drivel and website isn't worth the attention you are demanding.


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Panelized home

>Anyways, moving on, who here has done any research on panel homes using SIPs?

A long time ago I designed a home for a construction manager who decided to build a panelized home as a time-saving method of constructing his own house. I didn't get too involved in the panel details since the company in Indiana (I think) had their own engineers design them to my plans. I do know that once the floor trusses were framed and decked the panels dropped in place in no time and the roof structure started the same day. I visited the builder about 10 years later and he still loved the house.

Your costs should be about the same as stick-framed constrution with your savings measured in time and waste.

Wayne


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

Wayne - That has been my impression as well. The lower amount of waste is especially attractive to me. I also understand that the costs for materials are slightly higher on average, but the structure will be more sound overall, but no way to know how much of that is industry hype.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

Copied from www.associatedcontent.com

10 Reasons Why You Should Not Purchase a Manufactured Home

Problems with Manufactured Homes
By Cheryl Carpenter


Takeaways:
Electricians are not certified. They are just trained on the job. Those that are not plumbers installing plumbing.

On average a manufacturing facility will totally complete as many as 7 homes in one 8-hour workday The manufactured housing industry is booming. There is a reason for this occurrence. The main reason is because the up front cost to the customer is far less than that of a stick built home. Traditionally one may have less than perfect credit, and may be able to get into a home with as little as zero to five hundred dollars down.

I am not implying that there isnt a place in our society for manufactured housing, but I feel the consumer has a right to make an informed decision. I have an 8-year history in the construction of manufactured housing so; I am going to give you a heads up on what is actually going on where these homes are concerned.

Manufactured homes are constructed in a factory. This is where they get their name. This is a large long narrow facility with open ends and sides. The first step in the construction of a home is the building of the chaise. Then the flooring is put into place followed by the vinyl flooring, and plumbing. The frame is moved down the line to the next station by the use of a pulley and chain. In this station, the walls are erected followed by the electrical work. The roof is installed in the following station as are the windows. The home is then pulled out of the end of the building by tractor and returned to the other side of the building to the next station in line. While in this station, more windows are inserted. The cabinets and toilets are in place; as are fireplaces and doors. Time to move to the next station. Here the shingles and siding are attached to the home. Now the house is ready for the final stages.

In the final stages the home will have the carpet installed, curtains hung, trim attached, pudding of holes completed, electrical checks run and plumbing tested. Now the home is inspected and ready to be sealed up for shipment.

All of this is fascinating to watch. It is unbelievable that all of this is completed in such a manner. There are usually more than a hundred workers involved in this process. They are all thrown together at one time to complete their assigned tasks. It is not unusual for workers to literally climb over top of each other, balancing on what ever they can find, be it counter tops, toilets, boxes, parts of fireplaces etc.

Now, this is what one needs to understand. The following reasons are why one should not purchase a manufactured home.

1) On average a manufacturing facility will totally complete as many as 7 homes in one 8 hour workday. This is where the trouble starts. What kind of quality workmanship can possibly be involved at this rate of speed?

2) There is no time to properly train employees. The assembly line does not slow down for anyone. There is a quota that must be met.

3) Electricians are not certified. They are just trained on the job.

4) Those that are not plumbers installing plumbing.

5) When there are problems with walls, or doors that do not close properly, it would appear that a sledgehammer is always the tool of choice to correct the problem. This leads one to wonder what the prospective owner would think if they were watching the process.

6) The plumbing is of a very inferior quality. This leaves the new homeowner with plumbing problems immediately after purchase, or shortly there after. The consumer will find it best, if possible to start replacing facets as soon as they move in.

7) When a new home is transported to site, one will have to realign the interior doors. There tends to be problems with doors that will not shut and doors that will not stay open.

8) Electrical problems abound in manufactured homes. Within a very short time a home may need an electrician to repair outlets that are no longer working.

9) If a consumer elects to purchase a home with furniture included, they need to be aware that this is very low grade furniture. Life expectancy depends on the use it gets, but could be estimated to be 6 months to 1 year.

10) Lastly, manufactured homes are notorious for leaking! If you have a home that leaks, it can be almost impossible to eliminate the problem. The damage that will occur will leave the consumer with walls, floors and ceilings to replace.

So, what can we conclude from this information? As we think about it now. We see that what starts out, as a good option to the stick built house, may not be an option at all. Manufacture housing is very costly in the long run. Be prepared to deal with the issues that will be there when you purchase your home.

Note: All manufactured homes are constructed with the same process. All homes use the same materials.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

The above is more applicable to MOBILE HOMES. The implication is that stick built homes have the very best of workmen and workmanship. If you believe that, do you want to buy a bridge? A MODULAR house is also a manufactured house. But the modular meets all the local codes where it will be sited. I visited the factory and was present at the setting of two homes by that manufacturer and dealer prior to my purchase decision. The plumbing on mine was as good as it gets, the electrical about average quality- on a par with site-built. MOBILE HOME DEALERS are seldom long on integrity, in my experience.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

"...1) On average a manufacturing facility will totally complete as many as 7 homes in one 8 hour workday. This is where the trouble starts. What kind of quality workmanship can possibly be involved at this rate of speed?..."

The same quality that an underpaid helper gives a site built home.
********************************

"...2) There is no time to properly train employees. The assembly line does not slow down for anyone. There is a quota that must be met..."
There is no more time allowed for a sheetrocker to finish the job on site, so shortcuts are made.
*********************************

"...3) Electricians are not certified. They are just trained on the job..."

And not all electrician's helpers on the jobsite are licensed either. Just the head electrician.
*********************************

"...4) Those that are not plumbers installing plumbing..."

And the helpers are called "apprentices" for a reason. They aren't licensed either. And many states don't even require plumbers to be licensed.
*********************************

"...5) When there are problems with walls, or doors that do not close properly, it would appear that a sledgehammer is always the tool of choice to correct the problem. This leads one to wonder what the prospective owner would think if they were watching the process..."

And the "perswayder" is commonly used onsite too.
*********************************

"...6) The plumbing is of a very inferior quality. This leaves the new homeowner with plumbing problems immediately after purchase, or shortly there after. The consumer will find it best, if possible to start replacing facets as soon as they move in..."

PVC is PVC. And 3/4 copper pipe is 3/4 copper pipe. And Delta makes a pretty decent faucet.
*************************************

"...7) When a new home is transported to site, one will have to realign the interior doors. There tends to be problems with doors that will not shut and doors that will not stay open..."
Didn't have that problem with my home! Everything fits beautifully!
*************************************

"...8) Electrical problems abound in manufactured homes. Within a very short time a home may need an electrician to repair outlets that are no longer working..."

Four years and counting. But we do have a cellar light that comes on ond off. But that was installed by the "licensed" electrician in our town whom I hired.
*************************************
"...9) If a consumer elects to purchase a home with furniture included, they need to be aware that this is very low grade furniture. Life expectancy depends on the use it gets, but could be estimated to be 6 months to 1 year..."

No furniture was even available from our manufacturer. But our appliances were from Sears. And we have had problems with those.
***********************

"...10) Lastly, manufactured homes are notorious for leaking! If you have a home that leaks, it can be almost impossible to eliminate the problem. The damage that will occur will leave the consumer with walls, floors and ceilings to replace..."

All leaks can be found by competent people.
*****************************************

"...So, what can we conclude from this information? As we think about it now. We see that what starts out, as a good option to the stick built house, may not be an option at all. Manufacture housing is very costly in the long run. Be prepared to deal with the issues that will be there when you purchase your home..."

Again, no problems with the home itself. Just minor problems with the work done after the setting and who I got my appliances from.
*************************************

"...Note: All manufactured homes are constructed with the same process. All homes use the same materials..."
Then where's my metal frame?? I have these cheap 2x10 floor joists that are 16" on center. And I'm happy to see from this statement that now all manufactured homes use Andersen windows, Delta faucets, Cherry cabinets, Oak hardwood floors, etc. See? they HAVE come a long way!

Joseph777, you must have worked for Alvie's homebuilder.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

I have lived in a Fuqua home for the past five years on 1/2 an acre of land. I have had no problems with it. In fact, it looks nicer than a lot of stick built homes in the area. I have acquaintances, who live in stick-built homes, who had a list of problems to fix before their first year was up.Their houses were literally falling apart.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

Nope, they are all built that way. Thanks Joseph777. Keep these people on their pointed toes.
I left you guys alone and you still bring me up in conversation. Glad you think of me.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

Hi, Will just put in my 2 cents worth ( ACTUALLY MY HUSBANDS ). My husband some years ago managed a Mobile Home Lot, befor the modular/mfg became so popular but much of this applies to both.
When a person goes on to a lot to buy, after looking at mobils and deciding on the model; HE has the opportunity to question the salesperson as to everything used in the constructon of that home. What kind/quality of plumbing is used, etc. There are different grades of pipe ( for plumbing ), more recently a "Flex Pipe " far superior to the usual ( fewer problems with freezing )but if that is not requested, you probably won't get it. YOu can specify your furnace, hot water tank , floor joists, roof eves, snow load, flooring, cabinets, insillation etc. If the mfg is not willing to build it to your specifications, then find one who will. In other words you can spec the whole home out. It may cost a bit more but it will be money well spent. Basically , you get what you see unless you specify and are willing to pay for better quality -- or what your area and climate requires.
Some of the homes come without much eve on them, you can request that yours has more ( preferably 1 ft. ) which in turn will help keep the water from running back and down inside your walls. Important in areas which get lots of snow as is the Load your roof will support.
You can demand a Spec Sheet from the factory,the architectural design. YOu don't have to take anybodys word for anything. The design has to be approved by the Government in order for the Mob Mfg to build it. tHEY ARE AVAILABLE.

You have the right to inspect the home if you are buying off the lot or ordering. Have that written in your purchase agreement, also have that done for the set-up. You won't get it for nothing, but which is the cheapest --- have it done right now or fix it later. Have all of this written up in your purchase agreement. You get a copy and get one sent to your bank. Also, get a completion date specified for your set -up.
Equally important is the site preparation, depending on the area your placing your home and the type of soil. You need a contractor who is familiar with your area and type of soil. Just anyone won't do if you want to aviod problems later on. Even if the Sales person says " We use and reccomend so and so, check him and his work out. Also, if you have neighbors in the area of your proposed home, who have had their mobile home set up, ask if there have been any specific problems----what they might have done differently. Site Prep can be costly so choose your site carefully. Again get a completion date in writing.
The majority of the "Set-Ups" don't understand structures and how to do it right.
Neighbors of ours, are having all kinds of problems because the the recommended contractor, did not come out and inspect the site befor he started work, then he let their site, sit , unfinished for 7 mos while he took care of other business. They took the word of the local MH Company as to his credability. He or others working for him obviously did not know how to work with clay soil, did not after leveling, tamp ( compact) the soil down, did not use the required amount of gravel to raise the foundation area to a height higher than the surrounding ground. You also need at least a 6 inch pad poured. The result has been water running back ( pooling ) under their home. The soil that was originally Top Soil, was pushed back up around the home and is now sinking and setteling around it making the home unstable. Of course, this may not be a common problem but these people didn't have the knowledge to call a halt to the work or fire the contractor, until they were living in the home and now with snow on the ground, you can imagine what a mess they are in. This is a triple-wide modular home so its not quite like working with a single or double-wide.
There have been many improvements made over the older homes and they are safer but it is up to the buyer, even if he has to hire someone to inspect that home, to see that he is getting what he wants and expects in the home BEFORE he takes possession of it.
Hope this has been helpful. We aren't knocking Mobile or Modular Homes but as with anything, one needs to take the correct steps to insure that things go well.
Good Luck,
pjjujospk


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

You guys really give the consumer a wrong impression of mobile homes. But since the industry keeps most consumers apart to keep the complaints to a minimum, your can call people "pathetic" all day long. And if you are that happy with a mobile home that was probably not built to comply with the MHCSS, don't go crying on anybody's shoulder down the line when the defects start rearing their ugly head.
It is truly a shame that the industry would keep such comments about consumers who have had problems with defects, serious defects, imminent safety hazards and noncompliance on amessage board in hopes to gain another "almighty" dollar in their pocket rather than upgrade the substandard way of building these homes. But I guess this would make them less "affordable", huh.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

"...And if you are that happy with a mobile home that was probably not built to comply with the MHCSS, don't go crying on anybody's shoulder down the line when the defects start rearing their ugly head..."

Which is exactly what Alvie has been doing since he realized he didn't proprtly investigate his purchase. So of course it's everyone else's fault.

Alvie, I really sorry you got snookered. But it's not the fault of an entire industry that you CHOSE that dealer. You CHOSE that manufacturer. Nobody twisted your arm.
I worked in Quality Control in the steel industry for a number of years. And a "rejection " rate of under 3 percent is considered very good. So out of 10,000 homes your manufacturer built, if they have major problems with even ONE percent, that's 100 homes! I have yet to see a manufactured home built to ISO standards.

So instead of constantly whining about an entire industry, how about going after your manufacturer AND dealer?
The manufactured home industry is a very competent industry but it DOES have some shady people in it just like every business has. But you're still tilting at windmills just like the guy over in the "cars" forum that got a bad Chevy and wants GM to go out of business!

If you hate your houuse so much, invest some money in it to get up to whatever codes you have in your area and SELL it! Get out! Move to an apartment if necessary! But I have a feeling that you've raised such a stink in your area, your house is known and now nobody will touch it. You may have shot yourself in the foot.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

alviec - Got your point months ago, we heard it all, yes, your right, we are all idiots who don't know what we are getting ourselves into. Yes, I am wearing a dunce cap as I write this. I know I am entirely too stupid to make these decisions on my own, and that I need you to tell me what to think and how to do my research. I understand, I got it, no problem. Here's your cookie, you can move on now.

christopherh - Good points as usual. That said, I have decided against manufactured for the moment, mostly because the total cost in my area is going to come within spitting distance of other options that would allow me more customizability. I found that the homes I was looking at would be around $150-200k with the options and layouts I'd like, and at that price I can build something that is exactly what I want rather than 'similiar' to what I want. That said, I would not hesitate to reccomend Marlette to someone, I have been nothing but impressed by that company in my dealings with them. At least their Hermiston location, can't speak for the larger Clayton corp that owns them.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

I have never, ever, ever seen a 40 year old mobile home that still looked great. I have seen LOADS of site-built homes that are well over a 100 years that look great. Sure...you can spend a pile of money and get a really high quality mobile home....but for almost the same price you can have a builder put you up a site-built home or get a modular home. For temporary housing, a large single-wide is probably a good enough deal, especially if you can find a late-model repo or something, but I consider a double-wide to be a horrible investment. It's really no better than paying rent. You will pay and pay and at the end of your loan, you have a home that is worth practically nothing. I'm sorry if this offends people....but it is a fact. I am living in a 1986 single wide now and will continue to do so for probably another year while I build my own house. Once the house is done, the trailer can go away.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

ccoombs1 - Your statement is an obvious one. Modern federal and state housing standards did not apply to manufactured homes until the late 70's, so if you can find a '40 year old mobile home' that looks great then I'd be suprised.

That said, I don't see why a modern manufactured home couldn't be great after 40 years. They are built to the same standard that a stick built home is.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

All I know is that every week in the local paper, there are dozens of people trying to unload their used double-wides. These are trailers that are less than 10 years old with HUGE payoffs left on them that they cant get anyone to buy for anywhere near what the payoff is. I had a good friend that bought a doublewide for a few years. In the end, he had to pay it off and pay to move it just to get it off his land. Maybe a doublewide set up on a permanent foundation has some value, but trying to sell a used doublewide is just like trying to sell an old used car, except that it costs $5000 to move them and there is no guarantee that the two halves will ever go back together again once they have been separated and moved to the new location.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

"...All I know is that every week in the local paper, there are dozens of people trying to unload their used double-wides. These are trailers that are less than 10 years old with HUGE payoffs left on them that they cant get anyone to buy for anywhere near what the payoff is..."

And I'll bet none are on their own land.
If those single or double wides were on foundations on private land they would have appreciated just like a "normal" house. But if they are on rented lots or in parks, then of course they depreciate. You could have a stick built house on piers on a rented lot and it too will devalue.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

I'll add to that statement the fact that the housing market has cratered and the papers are loaded with *all* sorts of houses right now that people can't sell for what they paid. Thats hardly a phenomena of just the manufactured industry.

But yes, a house of any sort on rented land is stupid. I don't know why people do it, might as well just rent a cheap apartment or buy a condo.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

christopherh, actually, a site-built home on piers that needs to be moved has a great deal of value. It has to be a size that can be moved without moving power lines, etc. But around here, people sell homes without the land (usually for commercial development) quite often. The houses bring quite a bit of money.

For anyone who needs convincing that a mobile home does not hold up like a site built home, go to a mobile home dealership and ask to look at the used homes that are for sale. My DIL and son are looking for a used double wide right now. I bet in the last month, I have looked at 75 doublewides that were built since 1998. Nearly all new at least new cavinet doors. The bathtubs are incredibly shallow and poorly made plastic. Not even acrylic. Because of the narrow overhangs outside (usually 6" instead of the 12" that a site built home has), there is normally always rotted wood in the studs under the windows and the floor by the windows. The bathroom floors nearly always need to be replaced. The windows are inferior quality. The countertops are inferior. The crown molding and baseboards are VERY thin MDF with a thin plastic wood grain laminate on them. I could go on and on and on. The point is, while the mobile home manufactures have come a long way due to regulations, these regulations do not cover cosmetic stuff. So the mfgs go as cheap as they can on the cosmetic stuff and that stuff simply does not hold up. Don't believe me??? Go see for yourself.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

"...actually, a site-built home on piers that needs to be moved has a great deal of value. It has to be a size that can be moved without moving power lines, etc. But around here, people sell homes without the land (usually for commercial development) quite often. The houses bring quite a bit of money...."
**************

I have seen a number of cases where the house had to be moved because the property was going to be used for another purpose. And usually those houses were sold for ONE DOLLAR plus the cost of moving it.

But if you purchase a modular home for 90K and place it in a park on a rented lot, and come back in say, 10 years, that house will NOT be worth anywhere near that initial 90K. It would DEpeciate just like a mobile on the rented lot next door.

But if that same house were to be placed on it's own lot, it will appreciate. The same goes for a manufactured home. Single wide or double wide. Put it on a permanent foundation on it's own lot and you will see an increase in value. As I have stated before, a double wide here in our little town sold for over $200,000. And the original price was nowhere near that figure.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

ccoombs1 - The Marlette homes I was looking at would give me my choice of bathtubs and other fixtures from any brand I could buy at Home Depot, I wasn't restricted to thier factory model. The overhangs are 12" or more on the models I looked at, and there is no MDF in the flooring, baseboards or molding. I checked into all these issues. I DID however see what you mention on Champion, Fleetwood and other home brands, but not the Marlette model's I checked out. Once again, the buyer needs to ask the right questions and do their research...

nocturne - I'm not sure why anyone would consider a $90k home a 'dream home'. If your only spending $90k, your gonna get what you pay for. Not excusing Clayton or anything, but I think part of the problem is unrealistic expectations. If I had a site built home done for $90k, I wouldn't expect it to do well either. You always get what you pay for. The Marlette homes I was looking at *started* at $140k, and the one I would consider buying was about $180k delivered. Thats damn near the same price as a site built home, but it was up to the same quality standards...


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

The fact is, a manufactured home is all that many people can afford or are willling to spend. So, unless you want to pay rent, can afford to buy your stick built dream house or live in a tent, you are forced to look at MH as an alternative.
I have owned mobile home parks and sold new homes within the parks. I have never had a sales lot, but know people who do.
For those in the NE part of the country...if at all possible, put an approved slab under the house and have the home professionally tied down. You will cut out 50% of your potential problems with that one act. Be sure that the water and sewer lines are protected from freezing in a professional manner. By this I mean by someone who knows what they are doing. Many, many fires are caused each year by bad heat tapes. And put a good skirting around the home...no particle board junk.
For NE people and people in other regions....my advice is to pick with a dealer who has been around for at least 10 years. You might have to travel a little, but it will be worth it. Then try to pick a manufacturer who has been around for some time.
To be truthful, in the lower priced models you will get pretty cheap stuff....plastic faucets, no shut offs under the plumbing fixtures, cheap windows and doors,metal roof, etc. Even on the cheaper models upgrades of these are available as an option. Which means you must order and wait rather than buying off the lot. In my experience in ordering for buyers, it was hard to get them to spend their money on weatherization products like insulated windows and doors, 6" walls and heavy ceiling insulaton, shingle roof...and this is an area where it can go to -30 at times. The customers preferred to buy homes like they buy cars...they want all the glitter that looks nice and the bells and whistles...brass colored ceiling fans, garden tubs, stero piped throughout the house, furniture, etc.. It was really hard to get people to spend money on the things that wouldn't show.
So, the next step after finding a reputable dealer and manufacturer is to spec out the house the way you want it. At this point bring someone with you who understands a little about construction or maintenance If the dealer is reputable I would have them install it on your slab. If you have someone good at plumbing, they could do that. Get a master licensed electician to install the wiring.
On repairs....when I sold, I was reimbursed at $20 per man hour plus mileage for needed repairs by the factory so there was no reason to not do needed repairs (this was 15 years ago). If a problem came up that was beyond our capabilities, and once in a great while it did, we were instructed by the foctory to find a local craftsman to do the repair...and he was paid by the factory at their going rate. If things could still not be resolved, the factory had a work crew that toured New England to trouble shoot and resolve the problem. I never had a complaint that couldn't be resolved and that I didn't get paid for by the factory.
You have to remember that almost every home will come with some small problems....doors out of adjustment, loose trimwork, etc... and the selling dealer is expected to do the "deluxing" on the home. It would take about 2 men two hours to do this. This is not reimbursed. These small defects are not unusual even in other businesses. Car dealers delux new cars and often tack on the cost to the selling invoice as "dealer prep." I owned a furniture store and we often had to "delux" even expensive furniture...touch up scratches, trim fabric, etc..this is not something that you ever do in front of the customer.
Sorry, to be so long winderd. I wanted to share my experiences from the seller's point of view. I hope this answers some questions for potential buyers. If you can afford a stick built house, I would say that in the long run, you are better off going with the stick built. If you can't I think you can be satisfied with a manufactured home if you take the proper precautions and do the necessary maintenance.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

"Dream Homes" refers to the marketing pitch. You haven't heard it? Furthermore, the whole point of manufactured homes is to have more affordable housing -- it doesn't make much sense to pay as much for a MH as you would for a site-built."

The only 'Dream Homes' I know of advertised around here (Washington State) are from a site builder, but I suppose there is probably other campaigns using that slogan. As for paying less, well, honestly in life you always get what you pay for. There are a few site builders here that are actually cheaper than manufacturered, but the build quality is even less.

"The HUD codes are terribly weak (for Marlette as well), and state laws usually don't require much more."

It would suck to buy any home in your state if this is true there. After all, manufactured homes have to conform to all federal(HUD) and state building laws, so if the manufactured homes suck, the site built ones likely do as well.

"Our home supposedly retailed for $98,000 before set-up, and was supposed to be "top of the line." It was all a load of crap. We had to have a replacement home brought out -- the replacement home had 5 major leaks! We paid for R-28 in the roof, and got R-10 or less. We paid for R-13 in the walls, and I pulled out wall insulation marked R-10! How many consumers ever find out things like this in what are typically permanently enclosed spaces? (Answer: Very Few.)"

Obviously you had a bad experience. Typically any product on the market has a 3 to 5 percent failure rate. Also typically the customers who have the failure are the ones most likely to go online and complain about it. Being a test engineer myself, I am very familiar with this phenomenon. There are plenty of people I know who have had a bad experience with one item from a paticuliar brand, be it a car, piece of electronics, kids toy, or in this case a home, and then they make it thier personal crusade in life to tar and feather that brand online and off at every oppurtunity, regardless of whether or not their experience is typical or not.

"Alviec is right. Our home was custom ordered from Clayton's "best" factory, and we didn't get what we paid for. It also turned out the "best" set-up crew in the business bent our frame severely, tried to hide the damage, and then we found out they weren't even licenced to do business in the state. I notified our Housing Board, and they did nothing. Such problems are COMMON, and the industry does their darndest to keep people who discover these problems silent. I know."

This sounds like you did not do due dilligence before your purchase. I would have checked those things before ordering your home. I am not saying you are directly to blame for the problems, mind you, but to some degree you have to take responsibility when you go to spend nearly a hundred grand and you don't even see if the installer is certified. BTW, does Clayton sell direct where you are? Out here they use independant dealers, and service levels vary considerably from one to the next. It would be the responsibility of the dealer to handle setup, inspection, etc here, not Clayton which is just a manufacturer.

"80% of new manufactured homes have major defects discovered (at least three major studies confirm this: Consumer's Union, AARP, & Foremost Insurance), and many more problems go undetected by naive consumers."

While that stat sounds intimidating, what I'd like to know is how it compares to stick built homes. Here in WA state I am involved politically and one of the things we are working on is a 'Homeowner's Bill of Rights'. We have heard horror story after horror story of people screwed by the lack of warranty and lack of liability for mistakes made on homes, both stick built and otherwise. Without a comparison, the 80% number is basically meaningless, and I can tell you far more stories about messed up site built homes than manufacturered(of course that is likely just due to the fact that there are more of them).

"You DON'T always get what you pay for, and deception and dangerously low standards in ANY form of permanent housing is unacceptable. I could go on, but industry supporters aren't likely to listen."

First off, I'm not an industry supporter. I don't work for them, I don't work in the industry in any way, shape or form. I have no money to be made. Read the first post and you know why I started this thread. You'll note that I decided against it later on after finding better options. As for the first part of your statement, I don't see why its worse than any other lemon product, I know plenty of people gypped on their car, or even regular homes due to a poor home inspector.

"I've literally had my family's life threatened in e-mails by people pretending to be other consumers who didn't like what I said. I traced the IP address of the e-mails - they came from Maryville, TN (Clayton headquarters). Gee, what are the odds? There are few limits to what people like that will do."

If this is true, you should turn these emails and the traceroute data over to the police immediatly rather than talking about it on forums. If its a threat the perpetrator should be penalized. If its real your putting your family at risk by not doing so. It will be taken seriously.

"It makes me wonder just who keeps bashing Alviec on here, and why they do it. Why isn't that point of view welcomed in a thread which is being directly addressed? And it simply confirms Alviec's premise."

The reason people are bashing on Aliviec is because he hijacked this thread. I started it with specific questions. I am not some idiot who has done no research and needed a guardian angel to come and show me the light. I wanted some specific answers and he blasted me for daring to even consider something that he has personally had a bad experience with. I had a bad experience with my Chevy S-10. Should I go to the GM forums and harrass anyone who thinks that its a decent truck with my tale of woe, and accuse anyone who dares defend thier own purchasing decisions of being a GM employee? That is BS on any forum. He had his own thread about his problems, but he was not content with that and his website, he had to jump into mine and other's threads, hijacking every single one into a "the manufactured homes industry is a bunch of crooks" argument. One does not have to be an industry plant to find that behaviour offensive, and no moderated forum I have ever been a part of has tolerated such tactics.

Thank you for letting me know about the book however, I may pick that up as it looks quite interesting.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

"...Manufactured Homes (not talking modular here) are built to HUD codes only, not HUD codes + state codes. States may place on some restrictions, but even when they do enforcement of both HUD and state requirements is terribly lax in most areas..."
*********************

We purchased our modular hme from a dealer in NY that sold modular as well as manufactured homes. (We're in Vermont.) They currently have one modular display home (a 2 story colonial) and about 7 manufactured homes on their lot. (A log sided home, a cape cod, and a number of single, double and triple wide homes.) EVERY home on their lot HAD to be built to NY state codes. Nothing less. They showed me that every home they order also had to be built to NY stste codes, no matter where it was to be set. And NY codes are more stringent than VT codes. They weren't allowed to sell anything that was only to HUD specs. NY and VT have snow load requirements that HUD doesn't. And that's a major item up here but not all that much of a concern in GA where hurricane clips are more important.

So yes, the manufactured homes ARE built to state codes, not just HUD specs. And some building inspectors will go over the home with a fine tooth comb. But there are states where they rely on HUD spcs only, just like some states rely on the federal minimum wage for their people. (There are many states where the minimum wage is over $7.25 an hour.)


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

ummm... newbie here just starting our research etc. But thought I'd throw a little something in here. We were at a local lot that sold two brands, WICK and a lower line (can't remember which, not the horrible looking ones, pretty standard stuff) as the DH and I were walking to a model (salesman was off getting a brochure) we passed some of the guys working on the homes. DH stopped and asked him if he'd buy one of these homes, he hesitated, and I said "Honest" he said "NO" quietly, shaking his head. I figured if anyone would know, their workers would!!!


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

I am also located in the western United States. Marlette offers a fine home. If I were you I would definately check out Palm Harbor & Fuqua Homes. They are high quality manufactured homes that are built not to far from Washington State.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

Hi Ya'll.
Was surfing today and thought I would look in to see what was shaking.
Reflex, thanks for the kind words.

Nocturn, keep up the good work. HUD does need overhauled. Some people will not listen to you or I, not will they want to do anything until "it" happens to them.

Christopherh, you are right and wrong. no matter what, a mobile home has to be built according to the Code of Federal Regulations. The states were mandated to create some laws to govern the mobile home install, manufacture, setup and soforth, but the state law does not preempt federal law. So chill.

Cessna2050x, you are in the wrong area to research. This forum is full of industry people who want to mislead you're untarnished mind. Check out the "war stories" about mobile homes to find out the real stuff. Do not let them coerce you into thinking these things are "quality" homes. like the followup after you. Palm Harbor my rear. The only Palm Harbor you want is in Florida. If you like strong winds sometimes.

Facts are facts. You produce to me a home that will stay attached to the ground in a very strong wind as a pier & beam home will and I will think about helping you sell it. Or how about a home that will pass a blower door test after it is sold and set up, and not modified in any way after it leaves the factory, i'll again think about helping sell it.
Proof is in the pudding folks as the old saying goes.
The ground augers are not sufficient, and the home leaks like a sieve. Maybe most just don't notice. HUD knows.....

Hope you don't get offensive. We can agree to disagree.
Read the laws and then decide with your own home. Check it out and see if it really complies. That is all you have to do.

Ask the retailer intelligent questions about those federal regulations. If they flinch or get defensive you know they don't have a clue. Read 24 cfr 3282.253 -" The dealer or distributor has the engineering background necessary to determine compliance". Heck, most of the industry people don't know them. They just know how to get around them.

This is not a hiijack, it was an occasional surfing ride.

Love you all.....


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

HI ALVIE!!

"...Christopherh, you are right and wrong. no matter what, a mobile home has to be built according to the Code of Federal Regulations. The states were mandated to create some laws to govern the mobile home install, manufacture, setup and soforth, but the state law does not preempt federal law. So chill..."

The Federal regulations are the MINIMUMS that are allowed. No state can reduce those standards. But the states CAN RAISE those standards.
It's even stated in the US Constitution that any law not covered by the Federal Government is left to the individual states to enact.
So If Vermont wants manufatured homes sold here after a certain date to have a 4/12 roof pitch and the Feds don't require it, all manufactured homes sold in Vermont WILL have a 4/12 roof pitch. Besides, with the snow loads up here only a NITWIT would not want a pitched roof! But pitched roofs aren't needed in Florida, so nobody has them. Same manufacturer, different state requirements.

It's like the auto emissions. California has stricter laws governing exhaust than say, Kansas. And the California laws trump the Federal minimums. And a number of other states follow California's lead. Diesel automobiles are not allowed to be sold in CA, NY, MA, ME, and VT. Becaue their laws are stricter than the federal ones. So their laws DO "preempt" the Feds.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

Alviec is back on his trolling rounds, accusing anyone who disagrees with his reactionary agenda of being "industry people who want to mislead you're untarnished mind." Then he goes on to instruct you not to 'get offensive. We can agree to disagree."

Despite his staking claim to some moral higher ground with his platitudes, one can not disagree with this individual. His personna will not allow it.

Wayne (...An industry person, but not the industry this guy has in mind.)


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

Indies brand is very good but not really well known. I own a 1997 Indies double wide and it is a great house, well built, beautiful, and it was worth every penny in fact I would have paid more. They are out of Alabama. I would try to stay away from the OSB board sheathing though on your roof and outer walls. if that stuff gets wet it falls apart. That's one reason Indies is good, they use plywood (well they did in 1997) but it is rare. Also I hear that Jacobson homes are really really good. They have weathered a lot of hurricanes in Florida unscathed, they even have a video online about it....


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

I purchased a 4-wide Silvercrest ME-19 which was placed on my site on December 20, 2005. The dealer promised he would have the home completely setup by Valentine's Day 2006. We are still waiting. The problem is with the set-up crew being unskilled.

Here is my website, with pictures, of our ordeal:

http://www.designsbyelizabeth.com/slamemdown.htm

Click on the different links to take you to the process.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

I am thinking about buying a MH.And I would like to hear from all.reflex it may be your thread. when you put it on the internet you open it to all. How do you know I am not interested in what Alvice has to say. I wont to hear it all and then make up my mind. Try to play nice. LOL


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

Hi everyone,

Is it me or do I read disgruntled internet users articles too much?
If you are taking my opinions the wrong way, all you have to do is contact me to clear it up. I can explain. If you are not mobile home industry people, then why do you get upset when I mention that? It should roll off of you like water on a ducks back.

I am here to let the consumer know about mobile homes. Geez, all you need to do is query up some different combinations of "keywords" and you will find more "horror" stories as you like to call them, on the internet.

I'm not stating what is not already out there. Look at department of justice files, state or local court records.

Answer these; If the mobile home industry is designing mobile homes so well, why do you constantly find articles about the government working to clean up the mobile home industries acts? Or why was there such a slump in the mobile home market? Why is it only the mobile home industry who determines the "safety" of a mobile home? How many mobile homes burned down due to defective electrical wiring? Why is there complaints about the way the mobile home is tied down to the ground with inadequate augers? Is steel stronger than wood? I've got more, but these may take you some time to get the answers for.

I apreciate you being angry at me. I can respect that. What I don't understand is why you want to work hard at beating my comments up for something that is just as or even more important than the "sale" of a non-complaint mobile home. Can you sleep at night? How would you feel after a family lost loved ones in a mobile home disaster because of inadequate workmanship?

Mobile home prospects:
If you talk to someone who has all the answers about a mobile home, BEWARE!!! Ask them how many "warranty" work orders the manufacturer performs a year. If there are few, they are either pulling your leg or just don't want you to know what kind of product they sell. ask them what their qualifications are to sell the mobile home. I know where the answer to this resides. Do they?
And don't let them take your wheels, tires, axles or any part of the tranportation system, unless they have deducted it from the invoice. Those items are an "intregal" part of the home you are buying. If you are getting it financed, think about this; if you have four or five axles under the home, depending on the sections, they may cost anywhere from $2000.00-$6000.00. Now figure up what the interest is for those over a period of 20 to 30 years of mortgage payments. Now you know how much money you just gave the retailer or manufacturer to take away those things. Talk about theft. And they can get away with it. Wouldn't it be better if you sold them? Its money in your pocket, not theirs.

See you next time.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

"...How many mobile homes burned down due to defective electrical wiring?..."

OK, Alvie, just exactly how many mobile homes built in the last 5 years burned down DUE TO DEFECTIVE ELECTRICAL WIRING?? And the cause of the fires MUST be the wiring. Not overloaded circuits. I can't tell you how many people see a 15 amp circuit breaker and replace it with a 20 amp, not knowing the wiring is thinner for the lower rated circuit. I say in the last 5 years because the mobile home industry as well as HUD specs have come a long way in that short time.
And I don't want to hear about homes built in 1987. Or hear about homes built when codes allowed aluminum wiring. Because not just mobiles burned!
************

"...Why is there complaints about the way the mobile home is tied down to the ground with inadequate augers? Is steel stronger than wood?..."

Doesn't the DEALER have that control over how the homes are tied down and NOT the manufacturer? Or do the homes come already tied down? What are the HUD requirements in this matter? Please quote the HUD specs. Because up here NO mobile is tied down at all.
***********************

"...Ask them how many "warranty" work orders the manufacturer performs a year. If there are few, they are either pulling your leg or just don't want you to know what kind of product they sell..."

You should ask ANY builder, manufactured ot site built, this very question.
I had warranty work done on my modular. And when I had my other homes site built I had warranty work done. So EVERY builder has to do warranty work. No home is perfect. My builder had what's called a "punchlist" of things that had to be corrected.

And as far as the wheels and axles go, you are spot on! If the customer doesn't have it in writing that the wheels and axles do not stay, then by all means make sure they stay!


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

OK, Alvie, just exactly how many mobile homes built in the last 5 years burned down DUE TO DEFECTIVE ELECTRICAL WIRING??

Check with the U.S. Fire Administration, NFPA, or any other statistical information bank. If you would like me to reasearch it for you, I can for a fee. But, I gave you some ideas on where to look it up.

"Doesn't the DEALER have that control over how the homes are tied down and NOT the manufacturer? Or do the homes come already tied down? What are the HUD requirements in this matter? Please quote the HUD specs. Because up here NO mobile is tied down at all."

So you are telling me the manufacture does not care about what happens to their mobile home after it is sold? Do they actually just let the retailer/dealer risk the lives of the consumer? Is the retailer/dealer a professional engineer?

Are the homes that old where you are? The act of 2000 was supposed to ensure that every state creates and enforces the installation of a mobile home. You just admitted that violations the apparent in your area if no "tie-downs" are installed on the homes.
It is also against federal regs.

I know you have beat up my posts elsewhere in this forum, but if you go check them out again, there is a link to the code of federal regulations. It is really good reading. A little boring, but good reading. 24 cfr 3280 for construction & 24 cfr 3282 for the enforecement when defect are found.

"I had warranty work done on my modular."
This one is out of the ball park. You either just admitted that modulars are the same as mobile homes, or you are trying to sidetrack that fact that if warranty work is performed, that is the repair of a defect from the factory that failed to be recognized during the "so-called" inspections. Put it this way, if you buy a car and it has a few bolts missing, is that not a defect? Could this not be dangerous depending upon where this defect is located?

However, you are right in "you should always ask the builder". But since the builder is not at the retailer/dealers lot, that probably is not going to happen.
We are not talking about "stick built" home here.

The last reply was good. But, if the consumer does not realize this question I posed, then the dealer just gets to tote off the consumer's merchandise and everything is fine, leaving the consumer with less than they paid for.

You guys spend more time trying to puke on me than you do actually do in wanting educate the consumer to the purchase of a mobile home.

I have no quarrels with any of you, however, it appears I ruffle your feather each time I appear here. This is truly sad. Or is it, you want to get in the last tidbit of useless information. If you want to help the consumer when they pose a question on this forum, please be truthful with them. They are probably relying on your every word.

Do unto others as you would have done to you.......
Lives are at stake here. Be real.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

Oh, good. The Great Educator has returned to offer his brand of truthful help.

Seems like only yesterday he showed up here hawking his "All mobile homes are crap and none are built to any codes" spiel and an equally abysmal anti-mobile home website.

So take his "wisdom" with a very large grain of salt and verify anything he advises with knowledgeable third parties.

Wayne


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

Mentality is a bliss.
Is this your website?
Do you like keeping up with my articles?
I thank you for being a "loyal" reader.

I really don't understand the mentality of some people on this site. Is your opinion the only one that counts?
Your lack of memory intrigues me.
I truly feel for you. To be so pathetic as to continue to ruin a good thread. You are an industry guy. Huh?

I could not imagine a person getting so upset as to spill out such agressiveness if they were not tied to something like the mobile home industry. Own stocks maybe?

OK, OK, people. Listen up. I'm little and he is big. I know nothing, he knows it all.

Thank you Mr. Know-it-All...

Now, does that make you feel better?

Funny thing is. Everyone who looks at this thread can see your anger.

As I have said. I have no quarrels wth you. Why attack my opinions?

Quote of the day:
"A wise person does at once, what a fool does at last. Both do the same thing; only at different times."


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

"...Check with the U.S. Fire Administration, NFPA, or any other statistical information bank. If you would like me to reasearch it for you, I can for a fee. But, I gave you some ideas on where to look it up..."

You make outrageous claims and I challenge you, and you will back up your claims for a FEE??? Back up your claims right here and now. And I want the QUOTES, not just the item numbers. QUOTE THEM.
****************************

"...So you are telling me the manufacture does not care about what happens to their mobile home after it is sold? Do they actually just let the retailer/dealer risk the lives of the consumer? Is the retailer/dealer a professional engineer?..."

Tie downs are NOT required in most states, so none are used.
That's all.
******************************

"...You either just admitted that modulars are the same as mobile homes, or you are trying to sidetrack that fact that if warranty work is performed, that is the repair of a defect from the factory that failed to be recognized during the "so-called" inspections. Put it this way, if you buy a car and it has a few bolts missing, is that not a defect? Could this not be dangerous depending upon where this defect is located?..."

Yes, I had warranty work done on my modular, I had warranty work done on my site built homes, I had warranty work done on my Ford PINTO in 1972 and I had warranty work done on my brand new VOLVO, too. That's why they have people that do this sort of thing. And again if a mobile home company builds 1,000 homes a year and they have a ONE PERCENT problem, thats 10 homes. Multiply this by the amount of manufacturers out there and you are into the thousands of homes with problems. And as a former QC director, ONE PERCENT is a FANTASTIC problem rate. Usually 5% is the norm.
************************

"...As I have said. I have no quarrels wth you. Why attack my opinions?..."

BINGO!!! FINALLY you admit these are just your OPINIONS! Not FACTS! Thank you for playing and have a nice day.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

You are a waste of time and effort. If people want to believe you, let them.
Your attacks state it all. Facts are there. I'm not wasting my time to educate you.

I suggest anyone who wants to believe in your petty attemps to degrade me understand your intelligence.

Everyone has opinions as you state. I did. Does that mean every word you spell or mispell is the gospel? Of couse since you already know everything and you are quizzing me, does that mean I get a diploma after you're finished.
State on course.

If you really look at these past threads, it becomes obvious that you are pulling another one of the mobile home industry shannigans. Divert the subject to something else so they don't have to acknowledge the real problem.

Your turn.... ;-)
You apparently enjoy getting aggravated..... Or is it getting in the last word?


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

No Alvie, all I'm doing is challenging your rants against an important segment of housing in America, that's all. You start saying things and when you're challenged to back them up, you bail. Why are you getting upset when you are called out on your claims? Or they just opinions? But you state your opinions as facts, so I challenged you. And on top of that you cannot back up your claims!

I have nothing to do nor have I ever had anything to do with the manufactured home industry. My closest experience was looking at them when I purchased my modular. So don't start in again about those that defend the industry as members of the industry.

But manufactured housing is a very good segment of the housing industry, and you know it. They provide housing for people of modest incomes on up to those parks in Florida that start at one million dollars.

But if you're going to make outrageous claims against it, I'll challenge you every time for the facts to back up your statements. But seeing as you won't (or can't) .....


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

From NFPA:

Fire causes
"Problems with the electrical system within the home is the number-one cause of manufactured home fires. (For dwellings overall, cooking equipment is the leading cause and problems with the electrical system within the home is fourth.) Other significant causes of fires in pre- and post-1976 manufactured homes are heating equipment, intentionally set fires, and cooking equipment, which are also the three leading causes of fires in dwellings generally".

From my experience, manufactured home owners in the Northeast are more likely to have space heaters, electric water heaters, heat tape and more likely to avoid maintenance, repairs, replacements or hiring professionals.

Our manufactured home customers often let there fuel oil, kerosene or propane run out, and are much more likely to skip service, and more likely to service their own electrical, plumbing and heating equipment without permits & inspections.

We walk away from a lot of dangerous manufactured home heating service, repair and replacement jobs since the customers sometimes don't have the money for furnace repairs, or replacement of heat exchangers, furnaces and roof jacks.

I wouldn't expect that a one or two piece structure that had to meet size, and weight requirements of over-the-road transport, and had to work within a limited budget would be comparable in quality to other site built, or modular structures.

When we build a home, rehab a home or install a heating system, some of the inspectors are fussy, fussy, fussy. Did I mention they were fussy? Some of the things I see when I open walls would never fly on a site built home unless the inspector was blind, sleeping or drunk.

If anyone has a suggestion about a manufactured home brand with consistently above average construction quality, I'd like to know since the "What's the best.." question is often asked by our customers in parks.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...


John Hall Jr. at NFPA put out an article about fires in manufactured homes. You can read it on their website. Read stats from most states or counties or cities that keep statistical information in regards to fires.

I know you want proof, read the information from the organizations who help regulate the mobile home industry or at least provide feedback to them. If I fill this thread up with information you probably would not read it anyway, I'll stand back and let you feel good about yourself.

If serious consumers are interested in obatining useful information, I'll be happy to help them. I'm not doing it for money or commission.

I honestly don't want to bicker with you and your ego.
Let's just let it sit and see if the consumers enjoy your next attempt to bash me or see if they would actually like to obtain useful information that is not outrageous.

Distraction is the ultimate in deception. Wouldn't you say?
Good day..


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

I purchased a Silvercrest Me-19, quad-wide from Sav-On Homes in Beaumont, California. It was placed on my site on December 20, 2005, and still is not complete as of September 2007.

There have been numerous problems from a shoddy foundation that was ordered removed by the County to mislocation of piers, to needing a new roof. The dealer/installer refuse to correct the problems and we will need to spend at least another $40,000 to bring the home up to safety standards. Currently there are five Correction Notices on our home.

We put cash into escrow and have not yet released the money, so we probably have more leverage than most buyers.

My suggestions are:

1) Do not sign an arbitration agreement. If it is in your purchase order, X it out and write a big "NO" on it and initial it. Arbitration favors the contractors.

2) Always hold back half of the money until you are satisfied with your home.


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RE: Considering a Manufactured home, have some questions...

my husband and i though the same thing originally about manufactured homes so we had a site build home built. we live in florida. we have had the home for 8 years so home only 8 yrs old. The air conditioning system has had to be worked on 4 times. the tile in the shower floor shortly after the 1 yr warrenty expired cracked and started sinking in one area from the other tiles. The sheetrock is so thin that we no longer have towel bars in either bathroom as they pulled out of walls. i know several other people who have manufactured homes on a permanent foundation and have not had any of these problems. exterior walls also allow us to be able to hear the neigbhors outside at night. only thing that i can say good about the house is that insullation does seem good. carpet as areas where you sometimes step bare foot and you get stuck by carpet tack. so i can not say that i believe stick site built is always better. also as far as value. Our home do the the market has actually depreciated in value over the last 3 years. every year our property tax has gone down. we now owe more then we could probably sell our home for. Therefore we are getting an acre and half of land and thinking we may in a year or two see about putting a manufactured home on it on a fixed foundation. any recommendations of a good dealer here in florida. we were thinking either palm harbor, jacobsen or deer valley


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