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led ucl continuation

David
12 years ago

Since there is quite a bit of continued discussion on LED UCL, continuation of jem199's LED UCL DIY

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/lighting/msg0600194417283.html

Here is a link that might be useful: LED UCL DIY

Comments (142)

  • David
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    A small junction box may be necessary to splice the romex wire if the original is too short.

    You might have to use the old position if finding the appropriate box is too difficult.
    I'm guessing that the existing fixtures have the tube in front rather than facing the wall.

    Using an ELV dimmer would be more sensible.

  • rkb21
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Davidtay: thanks for the help!!! Is this what I need to move the boxes closer to the front of the cabinet? The link below us for a direct wire module.

    Just to clarify, if this is what I need, would you recommend mounting them closer to the front of the cabinet? Our uppers are 12" deep and bottoms are 24".

    Thanks so much for your help!!

    Here is a link that might be useful: Direct wire module

  • David
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Probably.
    Most of the installs on this and the previous threads used the 3 pin low voltage LED bars.

    12" is not that much room, and the lights you're intending to use aren't that thin, so the variation in the placement wouldn't be that significant.

    I would suggest considering using the existing location as that would be more cost effective.

  • rkb21
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Oh, no...now I'm worried. Are these lights not recommended? When I went to the lighting store, I liked the color/brightness of the LED light, the fact that they are dimmable and that they are the hard wire kind.

    Should I look for a different kind/brand of light?

    The uppers are standard depth, which I thought was 12inches, is that not correct? So, then when does placement become an issue?

    Sorry for all of the questions. I thought I was on the right track with the lighting...

    Thanks again for all of your help!!!

  • rkb21
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    sorry, duplicate!

    This post was edited by rkb21 on Sat, Apr 27, 13 at 20:02

  • David
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Use what you're comfortable with. There are many choices ranging from the exorbitant to the traditional look.

    If you use a sleeker bar like either the MaxLite or eW profile, there is more room to play with. Some place the light at the front and angle the light towards the backsplash.

    A traditional UCL is usually placed at the rear to middle as the lamp faces forward and the housing offsets the lamp towards the front. Placing the UCL at the rear ensures that the romex wire is largely obscured by the housing body.

    I think you should price out the entire system you looked at as well as another alternative such as the eW profile or Maxlite bars.

    The lower the profile, the higher the price.

  • SparklingWater
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Not much discussion of cost of LED ucl on this thread so I thought I'd summarize a quote I got on AC direct wire/step down to 24v. also, the power switches and hardware supply(s) are 1 inch, so exceed the light rail profile of 3/4".

    12 three-prong led fixtures of various sizes for 8 uppers
    13 modular led power switches
    10 50 watt modular hardwire supplies

    $2032.00 not including tax

    Is there a less expensive way to still use LED for under-cabinet lighting?

    Can you pull the 120v romex through and connect to a halogen or other puck light for now? Then later, change out to LED when costs drop?

    Or can you forget AC romex pull and just do entirely low voltage for savings (led 3M tape-does that wreck painted cabinets when removed)?

    Thank you very much for any advice. While I've read and re-read these threads, I'm just not grasping how to do these under-cabinet lights without spending a small fortune.

  • David
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The nice thing about direct wire is that you have more options - halogen, fluorescent, xenon, led and can swap out the fixture more readily in the future.

    With low voltage, you might be constrained to either 12V or 24V depending on what you're replacing.

    Converting from low voltage to line voltage will require pulling the necessary wiring and potentially making additional holes in the cabinets.

    Removing stick on lights may pull off some paint.

    Why do you need so many switches?

  • SparklingWater
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yes, I'm not sure, but I wonder if it could be a new local 2013 electrical code? Vaguely remember hearing about bad news that each light needed it's own box but when I spoke with the electrical code office directly about this, he said nothing.

    I have to ask the Rexel dealer to review how he came up with this.

    I do agree having direct wire placed while down to back walls (who knows what shape they are in) is prudent. That's why I've been searching vigorously and rather unsuccessfully for a low profile LED direct wire. This isn't even the Unilume quote.

    I may have to consider other lighting format for now. One nice aspect of my frameless cabinet is it's 3/4" thick on the bottom of the uppers, so xenon-produced heat will have farther to travel before impacting items in the lower shelf.

    Doesn't dimming of xenon lower the voltage and thus resistance induced heat?

    davidtay, have you looked at Halo led ucl, by Cooper Lighting? I briefly looked at it and bookmarked to research this week. Imported but priced reasonably.

    Thanks very much.

  • brickeyee
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "If the cabinets have intervening fences/ stiles, it may be difficult (or impossible) to form a continuous led section. Notching the cabinets is difficult once they are installed."

    Just notch out the wood.

    "Using a router on the underside of an installed cabinet could be difficult and challenging."
    Why would you use or need a router?
    If you wanted to recess some wires or a light strip maybe, but that is getting into pretty serious overkill (unless your know folks that like to lay their head on the counter to check the bottom of the cabinets).

    Try a "Gent's saw' and a little handwork.

    It will easily cut the small section of case side below the bottom of the cabinet floor, and then you just pop it out with a chisel.

    Has had work died so badly everything must be powered?

    Even a tiny notch on the bottom of a cabinet edge?

    If you are worried about the wood not breaking off cleanly enough, make repeated adjacent cuts and use a smaller chisel to clear them (maybe even bevel down and at an angle to start).

    Even in the age of 'power everything' some handwork if often needed.

    You could even use a very narrow blade on one of the oscillating tool cutters to clear the waste between the two vertical cuts.

    You can take an oscillating tool saw blade and cut it down even narrower.

  • SparklingWater
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Oops, xenon lighting results in a gaseous state , so no dimming with them.

    My Unilume quote came in at around $2600 for 9 lines etc of various sizes. Surprisingly not much different from the first quote.

    davidtay or anyone, have you ever used tresco LED lighting products? similar to unilume in quality as far as I can see from spending some hours on their videos and site. Huge selection of LED products.

    Not feeling the cost here...but more manufacturers should weigh in soon on my lighting plan for ucl and in cabinet light.

    Here is a link that might be useful: tresco led

  • SparklingWater
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    davidtay-I'm not sure I understand your LED diagram with one transformer downside from an AC switch and parallel led light sides across room space.

    For example, I can see one switch and one accessible transformer on EACH side of my kitchen, for total of 2 switches and two transformers. I can place each of the power supplies in an accessible place with separate AC switches (dimmer switches) close enough to each transformer to be wired, then the DC wires/jumpers connect to the led bar lights.

    I don't get how you can jump clear across the room to the other side using just one switch and power supply without low voltage wires going into ceilings or floors to get to the other side, which my remodel isn't doing.

    What am I missing here?

    ps: Peke, if you're still here, how did you lighting turn out? Did you figure out your install. thanks.

  • David
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The diagram is just an illustration showing how 3 separate runs could be made in parallel.

    People do have low voltage wiring in the walls, floors and ceilings - lighting, sound systems, networking ,...

    If you don't want to use in wall wiring, there is the flat wire option which is embedded in the wall texture.

  • brickeyee
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "Oops, xenon lighting results in a gaseous state , so no dimming with them. "

    Say what?

    Dimming Xenon charged light will result in more darkening of the envelope by the firmament (with a decrease in life) but it still depends on how often and what level you dim them.

    If they send most of their life on full they will be just fine.

  • SparklingWater
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ooops,oops, not xenon sorry. It's electrified fluorescent light tubes that are filled with noble gases such as argon, krypton or neon to eliminate chemical reactions resulting from the electrical discharges in the tube.

    Thanks brickeyee. Btw, what's your opinion on LED under-cabinet lighting? Our local lighting designer who works at the lighting supply and is very knowledgeable, told me LED pricing will never come done due to its requirement of trace elements. Not sure about that.

    To follow our local code of 18" to combustible surface lateral to my range, I raised the cabinets 3/4" and bought a 3/4" light rail. Given that step and frameless flat cabinets, one of the lowest profile lights is needed which happen to be LED. Not a bad choice, just that my GC wants direct wire. It's all going to work out though, and LED it will be.

  • David
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    What trace elements?
    LEDs are now poised to displace CFLs and other cold cathode lighting.
    LED has already displaced cold cathode (fluorescent) backlighting in LCD TVs.
    LED UCL will only see a gradual decrease in pricing because UCL is only a small portion of the lighting market.

    The easiest option is to use direct wire.

  • brickeyee
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "Rare earths" are used in some semiconductor fabrication steps, many that manufacturers will not disclose or discuss.

    Semiconductor fabrication is often protected as proprietary until no longer economically useful.

    Patents require you to reveal more information than the manufacturers are willing to give up.

    The actual manufacturing procedures and steps are the 'tricks' that make it work.

  • SparklingWater
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I continue to research Unilume undercabinet LED due to it's excellence in many ways and at 0.74" inclusive of built in tranformer, a true low profile for my 0.75" light rail.

    To keep the cost more in my budget, I wish to ask if I could consider centering a 19" bar on each of three 30" cabinets and later consider adding another 7" bar to each via a jumper cable.

    As I understand it, Unilume lumens are 600 lumens per foot at 90 CRI/3000 K. That is a lot of bright light and as my cabinets are long, a lot of light over a long distance. For this reason, I wonder if I might compromise in the above manner initially. Three of the 30" cabinets will have in-cabinet lighting, as well as LED recessed cans above pointed to counter top edge above.

    Thank you for your thoughts on this matter. Time to demo is approaching and soon I must make my decision.

    This post was edited by SparklingWater on Wed, May 8, 13 at 22:08

  • David
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It would be just like using traditional ucl- the important areas are brighter than others

  • Peke
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi all. I was just on Lowe's website, and they are supposed to get Utilitech led direct wired dimmable ucl in 2-4 weeks. I am in Oklahoma which means your state may already have them. We get things about 6 months after every other state. Reasonable prices.

    12", 18", 24", and 30"
    Direct wired
    Dimmable
    LED

    David have you heard anything yet?

    Here is a link that might be useful: lowes utilitech ucl

  • David
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This is a direct replacement for the typical t5/ t4 fluorescent Ucl box.

    Each is expected to be wired directly to a romex wire coming out of the wall which would be the case when previously configured for fluorescent Ucl.

    The height is > 1" which is taller than either the maxlite, eW profile or newer lights from Philips.

  • SparklingWater
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "or newer lights from Philips"

    davidtay, I'll look on their site, but is there a newer Phillips direct hardwire, low profile I missed? My profile is 3/4" and it's pretty slim pickings in mid-upper mid price range. Thank you very much.

  • David
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    There is the fortimo led strip, which could be deployed as Ucl with significant assembly required.

    The eW profile is not going away as it is a complete system.

    Either the maxlite or the eW profile (for direct wire) should work fine even with a style of 3/4".
    Another is the solid Apollo led lighting as listed earlier in this thread.

    If you must have a slimmer profile, low voltage could yield some savings vs UniLume.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Fortimo led strip

  • powerpuff
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    For the Philips eW Profile wired for 3-way switches, is the Lutron Diva DVELV-303P an appropriate dimmer?

  • David
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think so, assuming the load is

  • powerpuff
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I calculated 89 watts

    And to clarify, this would be split up into three sections which are separated by a range hood and a sink. How would I wire these lights to two 3-way switches on either end of the run? Would it be the same as wiring multiple recessed lights to two 3-way switches?

    This post was edited by powerpuff78 on Thu, Jun 6, 13 at 5:09

  • David
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yes, that's correct.

  • lwerner
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My electrician and I had a mis-communication on the UCLs for my project. The fixtures I ordered aren't what he was expecting me to get, and now he's saying he may not be able to install them. I'm hoping someone here will have ideas on how to make it all work MacGyver-style and still keep the inspector happy.

    The electrician was expecting me to buy Juno direct-wire fixtures like these. These fixtures have a hollow channel along the back for splicing the wires. My electrician planned to take advantage of that volume by splicing together multiple romex cables in there. Under most of the cabinet runs there are two cables coming out of the wall: one coming from the previous run and one leading to the next.

    Instead, I ordered the fancy new Unilume slim-line fixtures and splice boxes. The splice boxes are tiny. The idea is that you run one piece of romex or bx into the back of the box, then poke the white, black, and ground wires into little clips. Each clip only has one free hole, which means that there's no way to hook in the romex cable to feed the next cabinet run in my setup. (Here's the instruction sheet.)

    My electrician says there's another gotcha: even if the little clips had an extra hole, the splice boxes just aren't big enough. Apparently you need a certain amount of volume for each wire coming into a box, and two 14/2 cables need around 9 cubic inches if I remember right. If if weren't for that, we might be able to just cut off the clips and replace them with small wire nuts.

    Does anyone have suggestions on how to work around all this? One idea I had is that we could just get another fairly shallow junction box and mount it to the bottom of the cabinet and splice the two 14/2 cables in there, along with another smaller one running into the Unilume splice box. If we painted the junction box to match the Unilume stuff it might not look too bad. Would that work?

    A related issue I'm having is that the electrician has the romex cables poking out of the wall in the middle of where each fixture should go, since the Juno fixtures have cable holes in the middle. I'm thinking that to work around that I'll just have the light strip be in front of the splice box, with a jumper cable connecting them. The light won't be quite as nice as if they were back against the wall, but a few inches won't make a big difference. Does that make sense?

    If I had bought this bigger version of the Unilume things would be a lot simpler. But that one is a lot thicker, which defeats part of the purpose. It still would have given me the continuous, remote phosphor and the high CRI, though. Sigh.

    Sorry for the long-winded explanation. I probably should tried to draw a picture to explain it, but I'm not feeling very artistic tonight. Any help would be appreciated!

    Thanks!

  • hildebrau
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Lwarner, is there a reason you are simply not returning the ones you bought and going with the planned Juno's?

    I really need to take pics and explain what we ended up with using LED strips.

    Is it too late to put a electrical box behind the wall and just junction the romex together and have a smaller single wire coming out?

  • David
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Given that the profile is important to you, there should only be one romex wire coming out at each cabinet run.

    Each light run should be in parallel so that problems in one run do not take down the entire system.
    Options
    Using a flat junction box mounted on the underside would work, however, it would likely spoil the low profile look you desire.

    If the space above the kitchen is accessible, it would be possible to put regular sized junction boxes there (properly secured) and make the necessary splices.

    3rd possibility (needs confirmation from tech lighting) - use another UniLume splice box to connect the second romex.

    The cleanest look would be option 2 where the splicing is done out of sight.

  • calumin
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm installing my UniLumes next week. I wanted to get the Direct Wire instead of the SlimLine to eliminate the under cabinet splice box, but they aren't actually available yet (only the product sheets are online) -- Tech Lighting said they'd probably be out around August or September. So I bought SlimLine.

    Our GC has one romex wire coming out of each run & will connect into an UniLume splice box. From there we will use the TechLighting connector cables to connect each light to each other. We are pulling each light near the front side of the cabinet. We would have liked to have kept the splice box out of sight but it's not very large.

    I don't know if you can use a second Unilume splice box to continue the line to the next run, but that would probably be more elegant than adding a separate junction box in addition to the splice box. In the end as long as there is some space under the cabinet to hide the UCLs you'll probably never really notice or think about it after the installation is done.

    hildebrau -- the Unilume is much brighter than Juno. I also think it's a cleaner light.

    This post was edited by calumin on Sat, Jun 22, 13 at 13:42

  • SparklingWater
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    ^^ The last post describes my understanding of how my Unilume UCL will also be placed next week.

    lwerner, i've played with that splice box, and it's one of the sturdiest I've seen in all the LED UCL I've looked at. Many are just plastic with a single screw on the outside to keep it together, while this is part metal. But yes, designed for parallel with one splice and jumpers. That said, I hope you find a solution and soon: Unilume offers a nice product but if it won't work, I'd exchange it on cost basis alone. Maxim lighting just brought out some new LED UCL in case you don't know. GL.

    This post was edited by SparklingWater on Sat, Jun 22, 13 at 15:24

  • lwerner
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks all!

    I'd prefer not to return the Unilumes for a couple of reasons:
    - The hassle factor. I got them at about half price, but with no return policy. I could probably sell them on eBay if I had to, though.
    - More importantly, they're really nice fixtures. The continuous phosphor gives very even light, and they have a good color temperature and 90+ CRI. I hate lights with poor color rendition.

    davidtay:

    Unfortunately the space above the kitchen isn't accessible. There's an attic not too far away, but getting there would take a lot of work The long wall in the kitchen is a shear wall (drywall on top of 3/4" OSB), so to do anything in that wall we'd have to open it up from the other side. I'm pretty much limited to what I can do by rearranging things under the cabinets, at least on that wall. On the other wall I think we could make holes, rearrange things, and hide the holes under a backsplash. Lots of work, though.

    I like your idea of using another splice box for the second romex. I don't think the inspector would like it, though. The wires inside the splice box are 18ga (or maybe 16?) and joining two segments of a 15A circuit with 18 ga wires inside a fixture might freak him out. But I'll mention it to my electrician and see if he thinks it would fly. This inspector has cut him slack on some things like spacing out outlets on either side of the sink but been super-strict on others. For that matter, maybe he can just ask the inspector if he'll cut us some slack on the volume requirement. These fixtures draw so little current that heat inside the splice boxes shouldn't be an issue at all.

    I think so far I'm leaning toward putting another junction box under the cabinet to do the splice in. If I paint it black, put it all the way back against the wall, and make it as small as they'll let us get away with, it might not look too bad.

    Thanks!

    Laura

  • David
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Laura,
    The electrician could put in a low profile junction box at the back of the cabinet underside, tie the 2 romex wires there and a stub romex which would lead into the uniLume junction box.

    The rear junction box would only have 3 sections of romex wiring and the front uniLume junction box would be wired according to the uniLume wiring instructions.

  • lwerner
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    David: Thanks. That's kind of what I was thinking, but you described it a lot better. I'll use your wording when I suggest it to him. :-)

    Laura

  • SparklingWater
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    So I went to check our in-progress kitchen remodel this morning. Sure enough there are two romex cords per under cabinet space (one yellow, one white, can't recall what that means). Dang.

    All along I emphasized the 3/4" profile light rail I was working with, and their request for hard wire only. I took a lot of time on UCL research, spent a lot of money. I'm not going to go with extra junction boxes hanging out in the back near the plugmold to twist the two romex, then final to the Slimline Unilume. Those junction boxes would definitely be larger then 3/4", more like 1", as the Unilume Slimlime splice box is 0.88" inch if I'm recalling correctly. I asked for the electrician to talk with me early on. What a shame.

    Sorry for my rant. I've done a lot of personal work to get this kitchen right and this kinda tops it off. LWerner, coincidence or not, thanks for your post and Laura and David, yours too.

  • SparklingWater
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    sorry for double post.

    This post was edited by SparklingWater on Tue, Jun 25, 13 at 14:23

  • lwerner
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    SparklingWater:

    Bummer, I'm sorry that you're in the same situation. Let me know if you or your electrician figure anything out.

    I'm supposed to talk to my electrician next week. (We can't get in the house this week because they're sanding and finishing the hardwood floors.) I'll let you know if he comes up with any good ideas.

    My current plan is to have him jam as much of the romex as he can back into the wall, then run the end into an inch-thick junction box and splice it to a single, smaller wire that goes to the Unilume box, like I described above. If that's too ugly, then after the final inspection I can dispense with the junction box and just do the splices inside the Unilume splice boxes. I think there's room.

    The yellow and white cables are probably 12 gauge and 14 gauge respectively. Doing anything with 12 ga wire inside those tiny splice boxes is going to be very difficult. It's fairly thick and hard to work with even in a normal-size junction box. 14 ga is a lot easier. With copper as expensive as it is now, I'm surprised your guy used 12 ga on a lighting circuit.

    Sorry for the late response. I'm not feeling well lately. Don't get a compressed pudendal nerve. Not fun.

  • he8833
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Can anyone tell me the difference in what you get from the Lowes Utilitech Hardwired Cabinet Led Light Bar Kit verse the Pro Series Juno line from Home Deopt. Comparing the 12", the Home Depot line is considerablyore expensive. What do you get in the HD Junos that you don't in the Lowes. Utilitechs. I included Links below

    Home Depot
    http://www.homedepot.com/p/Juno-Pro-Series-9-in-White-UnderCabinet-LED-Lighting-with-Dimming-Capability-UPLED09-WH/203228139#.Udb5Fqa9LCQ

    Here is a link that might be useful: Lowes

  • David
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    From the specs, the utilitech is taller, consumes more power and cannot be linked.

  • he8833
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    In order to link the Juno's ( I have 1 cabinet to the left of the sink and one to the right with 14g wire behind each ) my Electrican I believe then connected them together in a 3gang box. It's roughed in at the moment.

    I'm assuming linkable simply means separate bars are controlled via 1 switch. Did any other kind of wire need to be run in addition to the 14g to make them linkable? Is any kind of transformer needed? Again all he did was combine the wire in a 3 gang box?

    Is this all that's needed to make them linkable? Or does linkable simply mean you can connect two of them togather under the SAME cabinet ( like doing two 9" under a 20" cabinet?

    I'm leaning towards the Juno LED's sold at Home Depot

  • David
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The juno lights are direct wired to 120V - no transformer.
    Linkable means that you can daisy chain lights on the same cabinet run.

    The instructions in the box should detail this and more.

  • baltomom_gw
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I've read this stuff until my head is spinning, but I'm UCL-electricity impaired!

    Please define these terms:

    splice box
    transformer
    power supply
    junction box

    Are these four separate things?

    Here's my situation:

    I have two runs of upper cabinets on opposite sides of my 13x13 kitchen. One run is separated by a vent hood into two "runs".

    I told my electrician I wanted one switch to control all UCLs, so he installed a switch under the end of one run of cabinets.

    At the moment, there is one thick, flat yellow wire sticking out from under each of the three "runs" of cabinets.

    I showed him the Juno Pro LED lights from HD, and he said he would install the appropriate wiring.

    Did he install direct wire? Is it too late now for low voltage? Is that yellow wire called Romex?

    My electrician is not good at communication. He tells me now I can use "his" special "to the trade" tape LEDs even though I thought he had set up my cabinets for direct wire. And I thought all tape LEDs were low-voltage, which requires different wiring, no?

    For direct wire, I thought I'd only need to purchase one Juno Pro LED fixture to fit under each cabinet, plus some sort of wires to connect each one in each of the three "runs" of cabinets in my kitchen. So I'm very confused about all the references in this thread to junction boxes and splice boxes!! What on earth are those? How many of those do I need? One splice box for each fixture? How many junction boxes? Or will the electrician supply those?

    I want to buy the lights and everything else I need myself and have my electrician install them. He marks up everything a lot, and I'm getting pretty fed up with his pricing and his inability to communicate clearly.

    One last question: The Juno Pro LED lights are expensive! I've read elsewhere in this forum that there are Xenon fixtures I can buy (Seagull lighting?) that will take LED lights when I have the money to upgrade. Will the Juno Pro Xenon fixtures (which look identical to the LED fixtures) also take the LED lights? The Juno Pro Xenon fixtures are about 50% cheaper. If I go that route, will the wiring my electrician installed (those big yellow wires and one switch) work as well? Or am I stuck with Juno Pro LEDs or some other expensive LED option?

    Any advice is appreciated. I'm on the verge of a nervous breakdown with this renovation, and the UCLs are about to push me over the edge! TIA!

  • David
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The second post in this thread contains the most information.

    splice box - small box (usually mounted on the underside of the cabinets) used to join wires together.
    transformer - reduce the voltage from 120v ac to some lower voltage (still AC). Very often, this term is used interchangeably with power supply.
    power supply - power source for low voltage lights - for example 100W supply for 24V DC.
    junction box - a box used to join wires (typically mounted in a location not readily viewable from the living space.

    Romex is a trade name which is the electrical trade's equivalent of Xerox.

    It is likely that your electrician installed 120V AC wiring (direct wire).

    If you don't trust your electrician, get a second quote.

  • lwerner
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I promised a follow-up after my electrician worked on installing my Unilume UCLs. Here it is.

    Short version: He made it work. The Unilumes are great: nice, even light with a great color temperature.

    Long version:

    - The Unliume splice boxes are very cramped, and there's no way he could have spliced together two 14/2 cables in there using regular wire nuts.

    - The boxes have three "clips" in them. Each clip has 3 or 4 holes for wires: two wires feeding the little sockets on either side of the splice box, one wire grounding the box (for the ground clip only), and one empty hole for inserting the wire that comes out of the wall.

    - The electrician removed the wires coming into the clips from one of the box's two plugs (making the socket on that side inactive). Now each clip had two empty holes, which let him insert the wires from the two 14/2 cables. Problem solved.

    - Technically there isn't enough volume in the boxes for the number of wires going into them. But the inspector is extremely unlikely to call him on it, especially since the boxes are mounted right up against the wall and you can't really see the cables going into them.

    - I'm assuming this is no big deal from a safety standpoint because the LEDs use so little power that there will be almost no current going through the wires to heat things up. I think the total amperage for all my UCLs is around 0.5.

    Laura

  • calumin
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    lwerner -- I'm glad you got it to work and like the Unilumes.

    Mine went in last week as well, they are great. My only issue was that I had to replace the dimmer. I had 4 30" and 2 13" lights on one switch. That worked out to 99 watts. The Tech Lighting guy told me when looking at dimmers you need to reduce the advertised wattage rating by 30-40% (and incandescent dimmers by 80-90%) to determine whether it will work. I started with a Lutron C-L dimmer (MACL-153M) which was rated at 150 watts for LED, but it buzzed. I had to move to the Lutron ELV dimmer (MAELV-600), which was 4 times the price, but it worked.

  • shavelka24
    8 years ago

    David-

    We are on a tight budge. What brand of LED under cabinet lights would you go? We aren't wanting to do the rope stuff.

  • David
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Several questions that could help

    1. Total length of cabinet runs
    2. DIY or professionally installed
    3. Low or line voltage?

    I still like Philips or Maxlite for line voltage.

    For low voltage DIY solutions, you could look at superbrightleds.com (or others) for parts and components. The power supply could be a significant cost component.

    There are many low cost alternatives out there, but you'd need to do the due diligence in making a detailed comparison since there are variations from vendor to vendor.

  • shavelka24
    8 years ago

    I know you mentioned Phillips, Maxlight and halo, but what's you opinion on Utilitech brand?

  • David
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    It should be similar to/ competitive with Halo. Utilitech is available @ Lowes.

    Halo has UCL in a slimmer form factor - pucks.


    Halo LED UCL pucks @ Home Depot


    Another way of tackling the issue is to break up the install into different stages for cost. Then, you could still get something like uniLume...