You should try the new Cree bulb which makes more sense than the L Prize bulb. Cost ~ 13 - 14 USD per bulb. There is a 10 yr warranty and the bulbs are available from HD.

The new Cree bulb looks and behaves almost like a regular incandescent (minus the heat). Dimming performance is quite good.

"You should try the new Cree bulb which makes more sense than the L Prize bulb. Cost ~ 13 - 14 USD per bulb. There is a 10 yr warranty and the bulbs are available from HD.

The new Cree bulb looks and behaves almost like a regular incandescent (minus the heat). Dimming performance is quite good."

Hey, that's great, David. Thanks for posting. Sounds like you've been using it - and you like it.

On another forum, I'd been hearing about problems with the Phillips products. People got them home and found the did not light up - or if they did, they burned out in a matter of weeks. Not what you'd expect from a product touted to have a possible 20-year life!

Great to hear that the Cree bulbs have a 10-year warranty! I don't recognize the brand name of the company, and hopefully they will not go out of business in a few years. You can tell I'm nervous because of the bad news about the Phillips bulbs.

Yes, so far so good. Supposed to work fine in totally sealed enclosures.
Cree is a major supplier and innovation driver in the LED market. Not likely to go bust soon.

David, you've got me very interested. Only thing is, when I check out the Home Depot online catalogue, they only list Cree LEDs on "star boards" - not as bulbs.

Is it possible HD sells the bulbs through the store, but does not as yet list them in the online catalogue?

But another question: are the star boards made so they'll screw into a standard threaded household bulb socket?

You're probably looking at the wrong item.
Main site for the bulb from Cree
http://www.creebulb.com

Home Depot video
http://ext.homedepot.com/video/?bcpid=207606409001&bctid=2205099086001

Optional Link URL points to the product page @ HD

Here is a link that might be useful: Cree bulb

My faves are the Ikea Ledare light bulbs available in 60w, 40w, or 25w replacements. Incredible light quality, indistinguishable from incandescent bulbs to my eyes, with great color rendering. They turn on immediately without delay, they look just like regular bulbs with the same shape, are completely white without any obvious heat sink fins, silvery trim, or yellow covers that some other LED bulbs have. Only the 60w replacement is dimmable (haven't tried dimming yet), and it appears to be a different design than the others and haven't used it enough to know if the light quality is as good as the others, though from my limited use thus far it is, or at least very close. I'd rank the Ikea bulb light quality above other highly-regarded light bulbs, including the Cree CR6 recessed downlights (which are also excellent) or the expensive Philips L-Prize bulb (which puts out more light, but quality-wise I found disappointing, with light seeming a bit yellowish and dulling colors.) The Ikea bulbs all have a CRI rating listed as ">87". which is better than CFLs and most LEDs (including the new Cree standard-shape light bulbs), but less than the 90 CRI for the Cree CR4/CR6 recessed lights or the 93 CRI of the Philips. As I've mentioned elsewhere, the CRI (color rendering index) figure based on industry-standard test methods doesn't always correlate with perceived quality, although it's a reasonably good guideline.

The 40w and 25w replacements are "snow cones" that only light up on the top half, yet I've found they work fine in about 80% of lamp fixtures. The 40w-replacement version (400 lumens) is also available in a clear version which could work well for post lamps and such, though I find them glaring to look at. The regular frosted white version has become the main workhorse light bulb in my home. There's a 200 lumen, 25 watt replacement that looks like a miniature version of the 40w/400L bulb that's good for some decorative lamps, as well as a similarly-spec'ed candle-shaped bulb with a candelabra base.

I have experience with several other brands, including some I'd also recommend, but don't have time to write about them now.

I'm curious as to who the manufacturer of the Ikea bulbs is. I know Pharox makes the Ikea bulbs sold outside North America which are 230v / 50 Hz, but they look completely different than the 120v / 60 Hz bulbs sold in the US, or anything Pharox sells here.

As I mentioned in my opening post, I don't yet have personal experience with 120v LEDs at all (just battery lanterns, flashlights, etc). But just from reading this and that over the last five years or so, I'm impressed with how far along the LED industry has come.

Do any of you know of any reasonably priced 100w equivalents that are now on the market? (Screw base, I mean.) Or is this something yet to emerge?

Switch has 100w equivalents.

I'd say that the market should heat up pretty quickly.

Here is a link that might be useful: Switch led

The Switch 100W are very expensive at around $50.

I'm tempted to try the CREE. They had a setup at HD but didn't compare it to incandescent color. It's very expensive trying these energy efficient bulbs! CFL's are horrible.

I would definitely say that the Cree bulb would be a great option. I prefer the Dimmable BR30 LED light bulb by Feit Electric. That's a great one too!

We just put a Cree bulb in one of our pendant lights over the kitchen island. Really like the output so we ordered a 6 pack from HD. Can't speak about the length of time it will last but like it better than the $25 Philips bulb output.

I've had 8 Home depot LED screw in, in my kitchen for a couple of years now. They replaced 35 watt halogens. All the LED;s look great and work great, they are on a dimmer.

8, 35 watt halogens = 280 watts
8, 8 watt LED's = 64 watts.

I have been replacing our most used lights with LED's both inside and outside, and in fact replaced florescents 2 x 40 watts with 4 x 8 watt LED's in master bath, Can Lights. A lot more light and less power and better color and they dim too, and usually are dimmed---How can you beat that???

Gary

Sounds great, Gary.

Okay, well... in light of the rapid development of new models, and the competition among companies. Do you think the trend at the moment is that what is retailing today for $20 per bulb will be down to $15 in, say, six months?

The LED bulbs I have been buying from Home Depot, 40 watt Equivalents as I recall are about $9 each.

The flood lights are still a bit more, like what I put in the kitchen and master bath, but I think they all will come down in price, and indeed some have and I suspect you are right about price and time.

I guess we prefer less light than most folks, because even when we had the 35 watt halogens in the kitchen, we kept them dimmed down and any of those kitchens with 75 watts would be very hard on our old eyes.

Gary

Yes, the pricing will decline over time. Not sure how long the interval will be.

Manufacturers like Switch will have to drastically reduce their pricing to remain competitive

The following factors affect the long term price points
1. The BOM (bill of materials) cost vs the SRP (suggested retail price). If the margins are too low, eg- 5% and the sales volume isn't all that great for the given industry, the company has no room to maneuver against competitors.

2. Efficiency of the supply chain and manufacturing/ final assembly. If demand spikes are fairly accurately tracked and met, the competition may have difficulty gaining traction and could get shut out of the game.

3. Viability of competitive products. If the products are less reliable, don't perform as well/ have a perceived significant price - performance gap, the price point may not move much.

Taking the L prize bulb as an example, the competition has surpassed it in many aspects...

What I use is the 12V 1 Feet(0.3M) 4 Watt T5 LED Tube Light
FEATURES

Small Size: SMD LED light source is a very small and light chips enveloped by epoxy resin.

Low Power Consumption: Generally speaking, the voltage per SMD LED is 2-3.6V, current 0.02A-0.03A, very low using voltage and current, it is very low power consumption. equals to 1/8 of incandescent light,1/4 of traditional light.

Long Life Span: Under proper current and voltage condition, the life span of SMD LED can reach 100,000 hrs, compared with the other LED tubes(like Dip LED),the optical decay reduce from 10% to 5% in 1000hrs. Produced by Automatic equipment, via heat emitting technical process, the life span of SMD LED is longer.

High Brightness: Mainly adopted 3528 SMD high brightness chip, single SMD LED over 6.5lm.

Environmental Protection: SMD LED is an typical green lighting source, made of innoxious material, while fluorescent light contains mercury caused environment pollution. Meanwhile, LED can be used circularly, work long time, the temperature less than 45 degree, safe to touch ,no ultraviolet and infrared radiation in the spectrum, decrease the discharge of carbon and sulfur dioxide to protect the environment.

Energy Saving: Direct current driver, lower power consumption, the energy transform rate reaches 95%, saving 70% electricity compared with traditional light, with the same illumination efficiency.

Low Heat Emitting: Traditional light generate abundant of heat, while LED tube transfer the electric energy into light energy, no waste, and will not harmful
radiation to make the color of the files and cloth faded.

Little Accessories Fee: LED light with small power reaches the same light efficiency, equals to 20% of the traditional light, small accessories investment, without ballast, low voltage, cold light source will not lead to fire disaster, so the wire spec, is much lower than the current light used, Since the long life span of LED, the cost of maintenance also lower.

Durability: LED chip is enveloped by the epoxy resin, more durable than bulb and fluorescent light, the light body is very solid.

Stabilization: Adopt inside driver DC12V , with heat emitting process, SMT automatic soldering, stable quality.

Easy Mounting: The users owned the light holders, move away the starters or electrical ballast(cut off the wire of ballast, connect the DC voltage).

Safety: Low voltage start, separate voltage range design, the light can work normally under the proper voltage, to avoid influencing the work condition caused by low or high voltage, suitable for different areas all over the world, more security!

Material: Two kinds of PC cover: striated clear cover and milk white cover with aluminium alloy light body
Advantages：
A、Striated clear cover with high light transmit, no dazzle.
B、Milk white cover with smooth lighting the same as traditional light
Aluminiun alloy with good heat emitting, solid light body convenient in transit.

Here is a link that might be useful: 12v T5 tube

Hi Joel,
I studied a bunch of the LED lights for my own remodel. These are mostly retrofit kits... but they do use the standard edison base and go into can fixtures. I studied the typical "bulb style" less... But I came to the conclusion that the Feit Electric brand from Menards / Costco was the most cost effective and produced more light than the Home Depot / Cree ones.

Their bulb-style lights are $9 for 500 lumens or $18 for 800 lumens. Their 5"-6" can retrofit is on sale right now for $25 and puts out 840 lumens which is an awesome price - the cheapest can kit at HD is $35 and only puts out 700'ish lumens.

I'm waiting for a sale on the Feit 800-lumen regular bulb and I will buy a bunch of them and give them as Christmas gifts. :-)

Also consider... I, like you, go thru regular bulbs like chocolate. My house voltage must be somewhat irregular, but I'll get occsional flicker and feels like I'm replacing a bulb all the time. Those filaments are delicate after all. Thus far in 2 mo of operation, I have not killed any LED.

I am pretty sure the switch you choose makes a big difference. The LED-rated switches actually regulate the voltage to the device, so I presume the combination of an LED bulb with LED switch is indeed going to get me the long life I'd like to see.

-mike

Here is a link that might be useful: My assessment of LED lights

Good info, Mike. Thanks.

"I, like you, go thru regular bulbs like chocolate. My house voltage must be somewhat irregular, but I'll get occsional flicker and feels like I'm replacing a bulb all the time. Those filaments are delicate after all. Thus far in 2 mo of operation, I have not killed any LED. I am pretty sure the switch you choose makes a big difference. The LED-rated switches actually regulate the voltage to the device, so I presume the combination of an LED bulb with LED switch is indeed going to get me the long life I'd like to see."

Yeah, I'd heard elsewhere about LEDs being sensitive to voltage spikes... I'd suppose that may be the problem we me burning-out incandescents in my shop, too.

I was thinking about some sort of surge protection. I've got one overhead light circuit running through a single switch, and a whole bunch of lights (for workbench lighting) plugging into a multi-socket power bar on another circuit. I guess I should replace the light switch with an LED-compatible one, and buy a new surge-protector as the multi-socket I plug the bench lamps into. Sound right?

Just thought I'd bump the thread, as I'm still unclear on this point of surge protection. I understand the aspect of choosing LEDs that are rated for 240v, not just 120. Fine. Okay, to reiterate: I've got one overhead light circuit running through a single switch, and a whole bunch of lights (for workbench lighting) plugging into a multi-socket power bar on another circuit.

I believe it's been established that I should replace the light switch with an LED-compatible one - and for this shopsituation I do not need a dimmable one. Maybe I should also buy a new and high-quality surge-protector as the multi-socket that I can plug the bench lamps into. Are these units (the LED-appropriate light switch, and the extension-cord type surge protector) generally now available at big-box stores, in sufficient quality?

If you don't need dimming, a regular switch will work fine. As for surge protection, there are many vendors to choose from.

It's October. LED space lighting is a fast-moving field.

About the affordable Edison-base LED replacements for 60w incandescents... Just wondering what people here have been experiencing, concerning the combination of the following factors:

1. Good even space lighting (not spot lighting).
2. Durable bulb not needing replacement in a short time.
3. Warranty of 5 years or more.
4. Affordability (competitive price).

All comments on personal experience or reliable consumer reporting are welcome! Recommendations?

Cree bulb.

Wait a bit and 60W equivalent LED bulbs will all

joel_bc,
I suggest you buy a CREE at HomeDepot, and the 60W equivalent LED at WalMart. Try them both, and see which you prefer. I think the WalMart version comes in non-dimmable for ~$8.88, and dimmable for about $1 more. The CREE is dimmable, and about $12.97. There is also a CREE at HD with a better CRI (93) for $19.97 online. HD also carries a competitive Philips LED bulb.

This post was edited by attofarad on Mon, Oct 14, 13 at 1:48

oops, delete duplicate post.

This post was edited by attofarad on Mon, Oct 14, 13 at 17:25

I bought a batch of the new Cree 93 CRI light bulbs in both 40- and 60-watt replacements, which are 450 and 800 lumens respectively.. They are thus far sold in HD stores only in California, but they can be ordered from their online site elsewhere. They look just like the standard Cree bulbs that HD has been selling for the last few months except they have a light blue neodymium coating. Mostly, they are terrific - with all of the good points of the standard Cree bulbs, good dimability, instant-on without delay, nearly omnidirectional, usability in fully enclosed fixtures, a 10-year warranty, and the expected Cree feel of quality. Like their lower-CRI cousins, the 93 CRI bulbs have a warm, almost too warm color temperature of 2700K, but whereas the lower-end bulbs dulled colors considerably when I tried them back to back with a CR6 or incandescent bulb, the 93CRI bulbs render colors boldly and accurately, especially foods, colorful art, and skin tones. They're somewhat pricey for big-box fare, although HD will give you a $2/bulb discount if you order a box of 6. My only complaint is that they're not as efficient as I'd expect an LED to be; the 60w replacement is rated at 13.5 watts, the 40w replacement at 8.5w. Cree calls these the "TW Series" - no, it doesn't stand for "TrueWhite", their trademark for the high-CRI, auto-color-balancing technology used in the CR and LR series downlights, which the TW doesn't use, a Cree rep told me.

I continue to like the Ikea Ledare LEDs, which have changed some recently and dropped in price. Their 10 watt, 600 lumen dimmable bulb is billed as a 60-watt replacement (although that's at most 3/4 the output I'd expect from a 60-watt bulb), but it dims well, is instant on, and gives excellent incandescent-like light with a CRI listed as ">87"., and at $11 each are considerably less expensive than the Cree TW series which run $16-18 even with the six-pack discount. My favorite of Ikea's LED lineup had been the 40w-equivalent, 400 lumen non-dimmable LED which gave off terrific white light with the best color rendering I've seen from an LED based on what my eyes tell me (the package said ">87 CRI", but a Consumer Reports test found them to be close to 91). I used them extensively, even though only the top half of the bulb lit up. Now those are gone, replaced by a new design almost half the old price (now $6.99 each) and are much more omnidirectional and lightweight. But also not quite as white light as before, but still very good enough to earn the same >87 CRI rating. The new one also trims it's wattage from 8.5 to 7.5 watts. This is the best cheap LED I've come across.

Finally, the new GE Reveal LEDs piqued my interest, a series of three 90 CRI bulbs with a slightly cooler 2850K color, available in 40- or 60-watt equivalent A19 standard light bulbs, or a BR30 floodlamp which I bought. These are 12w, 630 lumens. Their light appears higher in color temp than it is, emphasizing the blue end of the spectrum and de-emphasizing warm colors like yellow. Its light doesn't look all that different from those light-blue GE Reveal incandescent and halogen bulbs that have been sold for years, despite the color temp on those being more like 3500K. If 5000K is too cold for you but you don't want warm-white bulbs, the Reveal LED may be for you.

Walmart just reduced the price of 60 Watt equivalent bulbs to a hair less than $9 each, which easily beats anything Home Depot has. Very high quality I am impressed.

Not quite. The cheaper version of the Walmart Great Value bulb is non dimmable.

Philips is supposed to have a version under $10 as well by this year's end. Switch also has a cheaper version and soon everyone will be slashing prices or going out of business.

The price war for A19 LED bulbs is just starting up. It's going to be an interesting ride.

Here is a link that might be useful: Walmart led bulb tear down

Joel,

I would be very interested to see where you can purchase these Cree or equivalent product in Canada. When I asked at Home Depot in the summer, they indicated they had not yet come to Canada.

Carol

My wife just bought a 3-pack of the Feit 40W equivalent LEDs for $7.97, after the Avista rebates. And they are dimmable.

5 year warranty.

It is already a hectic "race to the bottom." I am predicting the 60 W equivalents will be under $5 by the end of 2014. The 100w are always going to be problematic with heat buildup. As of the writing of this post (today only, tomorrow might well be different at the pace of present change) 100 W equivalents need a much beefier heat sink and possible even an internal fan. (heat is the big destroyer of LED bulbs, OTOH see my threat on purpose built LED fixtures)

Purpose built LED fixtures are the way to go, imho. The light is MUCH brighter and higher quality. They are like bringing daylight inside. The ones I bought from Lowes put out the equivalent of 180 watts and only draw 25 watts and stay cool to the touch. Hey, if I can install ceiling fixtures, then ANYONE can! They have a category that is even worse than "beginner," and they show a picture of me!

Looking back on this thread, it is truly astounding how much the prices have dropped this year, more than 50 percent and according to some posts 75 percent.

This post was edited by BiggerDiggler on Sat, Nov 30, 13 at 17:17

While I do have number of LED lamps in my house, some of the technical considerations are not yet known to me.
On the issue of heat, an LED equivalent of 100 watt would use about 18-20 watts based on the power consumption of other sizes of LED lamps. So the heat would be limited to that wattage (or less) or about 68 BTU per hour. So where is the primary area of heat generation, the driver or the LED?
And will that BTU output really create temperatures high enough to create problems? It will not be concentrated like the tip of a pencil soldering iron.

I've only been using LED downlights for about 9 months, but my oldest lamps, BR40s made by Lighting Science (both their Definity brand at 3000k and the Home Depot Ecosmart at 2700k) are going strong. Our au pair never turns out the lights, even on a bright sunny day, so these have been on for at least 16 hours a day (full blast for 8 or more hours a day, dimmed at night).

Almost as old are two Phillips Airflux BR30s in 2700k and 5000k, and a Lighting Science Definity BR30 (GP30) at 4000k.

The reason I went with LED in the first place because (1) we were going through halogens left-and-right (lights left on all day), (2) LEDs are dimmable, and (3) the halogens left on all day really warmed up the kitchen and family room.

Right now I'm experimenting with Feit/Utlitech 22-watt (1350 lumen) BR40s in the basement. The previous owner had installed 65watt Br30s in the 6-inch cans, it was like a dungeon down there. As each bulb burns out, I'm replacing it with LEDS (also, the au pair never turns out the lights in the basement). They are WAY bright and dim well, but I've only had them for a month.

One thing I have learned is that I definitely prefer 3000k over 2700k (2700k is too dingy), and 4000k over 5000k (5000k is too blue, and 4000k seems to be just right). So far, only Lighting Science seems to make bulbs in those colors.

I did try a CREE CR6 (it didn't fit my cans), but I was unimpressed with the brightness and color.

[quote]I've only been using LED downlights for about 9 months, but my oldest lamps, BR40s made by Lighting Science (both their Definity brand at 3000k and the Home Depot Ecosmart at 2700k) are going strong. [/quote]

I've been casually looking at BR40s as well. How do you like the dimmability of the LSC versions? I have not replaced ours yet because in our house those lights are not used enough to justify the cost yet. (Maybe 1 hr/week average.)

Concur on color temps. I really like 3000K too. Unfortunately in the chase for "incandescent replacements at lowest cost" it seems there are fewer vendors of 3000k compared to a year or two ago, rather than more. For BR40s, TCPI makes 3000k though they seem to be hard to find. Also I've found Satco and Halco on line. (I suspect Satco and Halco are the same thing. Specs and appearance are identical. Anyone know for sure?)

There seem to be 2 1/2 types of LSG bulbs. The first type is the older model (18watt for ~950 lumens). The LSG branded versions have a gray tornado-shaped heat sink, the Ecomsmart and Sylvania versions have straight white heat sinks and are available in 2700k. The LSG version is available in 2700k, 3000k, 4000k, and 5000k. There is a split-second (but reasonable) startup delay. Dimming is good, but don't expect to dim to candlelight levels. The Ecosmart version seems to be cheapest, with the Sylvania the most expensive. I believe they have a 110-120° beam.

The newest version is only 15watt for 900 lumens, and is only available as Ecosmart at 2700k. It is MUCH lighter than the first version, is truly instant-on, and can dim to candlelight levels. Also, the beam might be a hair narrower (100-90°) Unlike the first version, I have had some strange interactions with my Lutron Skylark dimmer and had to upgrade it to the CL version. As an added bonus, it has the same depth as a BR30, which means they work in shallow housings.

The new version can be seen here:

http://lightfair.lsgc.com/br.html

and here:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/EcoSmart-90W-Equivalent-Soft-White-2700K-BR40-LED-Light-Bulb-ECS-BR40-90WE-W27-120/203914616#.UqN7PSiQ4wE

Thank you, I appreciate your comments!

I too like the Ecosmart/Lighting Science BR series. The new ones are sold in BR20, BR30, and BR40 sizes, they're bright, turn on immediately, dim quite well, and give very close to inscandescent color temperature. Color rendering only 80 CRI, but in real life it looked better than most low-CRI LEDs I've tried, adequate for most general illumination. And they're cheap.

About the heat buildup of LED's......

They run much cooler than incandescents or CFLs, but even a moderate increase in heat can fry an LED. That is why the bulbs come with such an elaborate heat sink, especially the ones on LED bulbs that fit into an Edison socket. Top temp for an LED is less than 90 degrees, above that drastically shortens their life. That is why they are not recommended in a totally enclosed fixture.

That is why purpose-built fixtures are so superior over just sticking an LED bulb into an old fashioned edison socket. Much better heat dissipation and the LEDs are placed in a much more efficient manner, to take advantage of LED's directional lighting characteristic.

Unfortunely, purpose-built fixtures cost an arm-and-leg. It would cost me well over $250 each to convert my Lightoliers to LED (and the conversions are not IC-rated). For my Halo and Juno cans, it would cost me over $100 to convert them to CREE LR6 (Cr6 are too dim).

In the meantime, I can buy a 22 watt Feit BR40 at Lowes for $40 (1300 lumens). My retrofit Junos in the basement are not air tight, so I'm sure they have plenty of ventilation. If I want something closer to 1000 lumens, both Feit and Lighting Science provide some pretty nice options. For the record, my Lighting Science bulbs lasted a summer in 30watt/ICAT covered in insulation.

wws944: Rambus has a series of PAR 30 and BR30 lights coming out that smoothly adjust from 3000k to 5000k with the turn of a dial. As an added bonus, it looks like their BR version is the same shorter length as the PAR version.

VIdeo of how it works:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk6YFlA-LLI

These appear to be the first batch, but not adjustable (3000k only).

http://www.amazon.com/Enviro-Bulb-30411574-Performance-Dimmable/dp/B00F3T6OHQ/ref=pd_sim_sbs_hi_2

If they can come out with 1200 lumen BR40s that are adjustable, then my search will be over.

I bought a GU10 LED bulb and a RGB LED strips from Lighting Ever like one year ago, and they work pretty well so far. Each for about $10 and $35. On the package of those two products says that the average Life of them is form 30000 hours to 50000 hours. I can't say they can last that long, but at least after one year they still working very well, so I believe they will.
You can find this brand on Amazon, or just google it.

Thanks!good job!
Experiment with new ways to complete a DIY.it ok! 4 in 1 rgbw led strip has replaced lamps in my bedroom.led's pretty good on this idea!