I'm not sure the 4***-series Mieles could possibly have 10-15 years of proven use because they haven't been around that long.

My older 220V Mieles are all that old, or more.

You can still find used 220V Miele machines around, often quite cheaply so I would look around if you can wait. I just bought one for $200 last spring.

L.

I have looked for used ones, with not much luck, especially none close to Nebraska. Are you in America? I'll keep looking, $2500 with tax and warranty is quite a bit of money.

Yeah, above post is right. W48xx Series are only about 5 years old I think. So no one can tell you how they will be 10, 15, 20 years into service! I had the first batch of W48xx washer and Miele's first ever residential gas dryer. I was not pleased. Not awful, but not what I was used to, when it came to a Miele!

My W4842 washer and T9802 dryer have been virtually flawless for over a year now. Sometimes a little programming glitch, or a buzzer when the door is locked for no reason..but it always resets itself. Wash and Dry performance are top notch! We have 10 Miele appliances currently in our home, and will not have another brand!!

My dryer was replaced after 18 months of use due to a loud rubbing noise coming from inside that the service technician could neither properly diagnose nor repair. The washer works just fine. Except for the dryer noise (replacement unit works great), everything has worked well. I have only owned these units since March 2009.

I have looked for used ones, with not much luck, especially none close to Nebraska. Are you in America? I'll keep looking, $2500 with tax and warranty is quite a bit of money.

@ rhomberg

Where are you getting $2,500? I paid just a hair shy of $4,000 for both washer and dryer including pedestals. Also, the W4842 is not available in Canada. you must buy the IntelliQ model, which is the Canadian equivalent.

We have had an extreme number of repairs on both our W4840 and T9820. They finally replaced our T9820 with a T9822 when they couldn't keep it working for more than a few months at a time. Happy with it now. We'll see if the most recent repair on the 4840 (yet another hinge & latch replacement) works - so far so good.

We'd previously had Kenmore's for about 2 decades and I think 4 repairs total in that time.

Curious. The warranty for my 4842 and 9802 series washer and dryer was extended to 5 years on the condition Miele installed it. Might have been a "special" or some nonsense. I'm glad I did that b/c the washer is often annoying (pauses at the start, random door open alert when securely closed) and the dryer's shorter belt came loose twice.

Service appts within a week. Cost me nothing. Tech SO knowledgeable; showed me tons of tricks to get custom results.

I've only had Miele W/D's and the one I bought 11 years ago for my apt hasn't needed a service call -- not once.

I'm not overly impressed with the 4-series. It's part gimmick, sure, but it cleans the hell out my laundry. :)

"showed me tons of tricks to get custom results"

R u willing to share some tricks?? ;)

In the (almost) year I've owned mine, I've been very pleased with its performance. The install (by Miele) was a little less than stellar - but that's another story on another thread.

I started using the Miele detergents a few weeks ago and think my machine is even doing a more amazing job.

I washed a few of my husband's dress shirts today. The french cuffs on a few white shirts were fairly dirty. I didn't pretreat them so I could see how it did. Washed them with the liquid for color and amazing results. Usually there is some residual marks left on the cuffs but not today. Sparkling white.

Love my Miele (so far) ;)

Is there any significant reason to prefer a 220v machine to a 120v?

"The warranty for my 4842 and 9802 series washer and dryer was extended to 5 years on the condition Miele installed it. Might have been a "special" or some nonsense. "
--- That had to have been a special deal. Mine got extended to TWO years (Woot!Woot!) due to authorized Miele installation last year.

"I'm glad I did that b/c the washer is often annoying (pauses at the start, random door open alert when securely closed")
--- Same here. Quite annoying, along with the ever-so-occasional NOT unlocking at all, after a cycle is complete.

I can't speak to Miele washer/dryer longevity but other commentary on Miele. When I remodeled my kitchen I learned more about Miele having seen a Miele dishwasher at a friend's home in Germany. I splurged on the top of the line Miele dishwasher looking forward to the ability to wash everything without rinsing and to wash china and crystal with the china and crystal cycle. Though the machine is still running strong seven years later, it's performance has been very disappointing. Due to etching (a problem Miele could find no solution for - nor anyone else) I now use only the china and crystal cycle in an effort to reduce etching. That often doesn't get dirty dishes clean so I now rinse everything - which I'm not supposed to do according to Miele because it leads to etching. And I NEVER put any china or crystal in there.

So all that said, I vowed I'd never buy another overpriced, over engineered Miele appliance. However after buying several "disposable" vacuum cleaners, including a Bosch that fell apart and replacement parts impossible to get, I felt like I had no choice other than to try a Miele. I've now had that a couple years. It works fine but too early to say it's worth the price.

As far as a washer and dryer there is no way I'd pay the price for a Miele based on my experience with the dishwasher. I think the DW was not a good fit for a whole house soft water environment and maybe the washer isn't either. And over all my experience makes me feel Miele is not worth the price. I've been very happy with my Kenmore HE models - still going strong after eight years. If they continue to perform problem free for ten years that will exceed my expectations considering all the horror stories I read here when I took the risk and bought them.

@gibby3000 - is the water in your home soft, either naturally or by use of a softener? The *only* time we had etching in a beloved old GE PotScrubber (in our previous home) was after we installed a water softening system. Prior to that, the dishwasher was fine. I learned later that soft water and the additional softeners in DW detergent cause the etching. We did not install a water softening system in the next house.

@ Cavimum......Your etching was NOT caused by soft water. It was caused by your over-dosing with whatever detergent you were using. If your increase your dosage sufficiently with the water in your new house without the softener, you'll get etching there, too.

Most people in my experience have no idea what their water quality is nor what gradations in hardness can mean for product quantities required. Consequently, all of the various forums are well populated with posts about "etching" and "residue" and "over-sudsing", etc.

@ gibby3000

Please see this from Wikipedia:
This film starts as an iridescence or "oil-film" effect on glassware, and progresses into a "milky" or "cloudy" appearance (which is not a deposit) that cannot be polished off or removed like limescale. It is formed because the detergent is strongly alkaline (basic) and glass dissolves slowly in alkaline aqueous solution. It becomes less soluble in the presence of silicates in the water (added as anti-metal-corrosion agents in the dishwasher detergent). Since the cloudy appearance is due to nonuniform glass dissolution, it is (somewhat paradoxically) less marked if dissolution is higher, i.e. if a silicate-free detergent is used; also, in certain cases, the etching will primarily be seen in areas that have microscopic surface cracks as a result of the items' manufacturing.[9][10] Limitation of this undesirable reaction is possible by controlling water hardness, detergent load and temperature.[11] The type of glass is an important factor in determining if this effect is a problem. In hard-water areas more detergent is needed to help prevent etching, and some dishwashers can reduce this etching effect by automatically dispensing the correct amount of detergent throughout the wash cycle based on the level of water hardness programmed.
I have a Miele dishwasher that is fed tap cold, hard water and the dishwasher automatically softens it to the ideal level and also heats it to the perfect temperature for every cycle. You must have a COLD ONLY connection in order to use the china/glassware cycle.

I hate to say it, gibby3000, but it's not your dishwasher.

One only needs to search Miele DW on the appliance forum to see that they are very loved by many here.

@gibby3000 is an unusual case around here. Although, I've heard a few people say they didn't love their Miele. Much like washing machines, I think they are doing something wrong :)

I think rinsing would only exasperate an etching problem since the detergent would have nothing to work on.

"In hard-water areas more detergent is needed to help prevent etching...."

Due respect to Wikipedia, this entry is either incomplete or dead wrong. Neither hard water nor soft water will etch dishes. The chemistry of detergents in that water is what etches dishes. Basically overdosing of detergent etches dishes. Hard water simply needs more soap in order to clean things....this is not news. Adding more soap to the point of overdosing does NOT prevent etching. It causes it.

Agree that if you know your water hardness, determining proper detergent dosage is easy. If your machine does it for you automatically, that's fine. Just saying it needs to be considered if etching is to be avoided. Detergent overdose = etching over time whether soft or hard water.

I have glassware that's decades old and gets regular usage. It's pretty banged up from the usage but none of it is etched from my DW's. That would be at least 4 DW's and various powder or gel detergents with and without phosphates. I have mostly had soft water but two locations had mid-range hard. I have always paid attention to my water quality and dosing requirements. My loads have always come out clean as can be and I don't get etching.

Not paying attention.....this is laundry thread. Got myself led into DW's. Sorry. I'm gone.

@asolo - Yep, we've gotten off topic here. Full moon this weekend. ;-)

You are correct that I was over-dosing my DW detergent. Apparently the 1/2 dose after the water softener was installed was too much. That was twenty-five years ago, I did what I was told by the Culligan guy, and knew no better. We use inexpensive glassware, so there was no financial crisis.

As for Wikipedia, anyone with an internet connection and a keyboard can input information. I always take it with a grain of salt.

I have to agree with sshrivastava with regards to gibby3000 issue. In Germany the Miele dishwasher would have been connected to a cold supply and fed hard water. Gibby3000 has hers probably connected to hot and soft water. She mentions the machine is over engineered, its not because there is nothing that you have to treat before it enters the machine. The built in water softener will soften the water to the correct degree to prevent etching. Introducing pre softened water into the machine it has no control.
Its interesting that in Germany there is a washing machine called the Allwater and it has 2 hoses like any other machine.You have the option to connect the machine to presoftened cold water and cold hard water. It only uses the soft water the main wash so you can use less detergent and all rinses are carried out with hard water as it produces better rinse results.

My Miele was a big splurge. I wish I had never changed from my years of buying GE. Miele saves water by using very strong spray of what water it uses. It has chipped dishes that I always put into the GE. Today's dishwasher soap destroys aluminum flatware and pots and pans because of the way the water is used. I don't know if it is possible to buy a dishwasher that uses more water or uses the water differently but I am sorry I didn't repair my 20 year old GE instead of buying this machine. With government regulations all dishwashers may be the same as far as the use of water. I have heard from a friend that she loves her Bosch. Remember each of us use the dishwasher differently. I always put pot & pans as well as porcelain dishes in my GE under the normal setting. Always satisfied. I have tried different detergents, different amounts of detergent and everything else I could think of, but still not getting a satisfactory wash on normal. Pots & Pans setting seems to do a better job. China & crystal doesn't even wash the wine glasses clean. I think I have a lemon. Parts broke 13 months after I purchased it and I have continued to have problems every 12 or so months. They would not replace it from the beginning. It is now 5 years old and as soon as I can afford to purchase another appliance, it will be a different brand dishwasher.

what is the name of the product you use. I have had my Miele for 5 years now and it has ruined all my aluminum pots, pans and flatware. It also causes etching on my dishes. I have tried many detergents in different quantities. They either cause problems or do not clean the dishes. I have been reduced to washing many things by hand that I used to put into my old dishwasher---just to SAVE them. Would really like to know which product has powder that contains chlorine and phosphates. I believe in Chicago IL those products were eliminated for climate protection.