I gave Miele a call with that question and they said that there were no major changes, just some updates to the firmware/electronics of the W3038.

There have been complaints that people could not figure out how to get into the program mode on the 3038 and that Miele was of no assistance. Be sure to read reviews on these machines and bring your questions to Miele.

Will do due diligence. Thank you

Thanks for sharing the discount code! Do you happen to know if it has an expiration date?

As for program mode, I can absolutely understand how people with soft water would prefer to enable Max water level. As far as I'm concerned things like that shouldn't require hand holding from tech support, but then again it seems that the consumer mindset in the US is very different from the rest of the world, and said consumers would be likely to blame the manufacturer for any possible issues connected with the changes THEY chose to make. Which forces companies to make their product as "idiot proof" as possible, since people really don't like hearing that it's their fault.
In other parts of the world it's much less common for people to blame the manufacturer for pretty much anything, but I digress.

Then again, I wasn't able to get a clear answer as to whether Program mode had been disabled completely in the W3038. Perhaps just the button combination has changed, and they weren't aware of it at the time I reached out, but I haven't had the need to chase them down on it.

This post was edited by recordaras on Sat, Dec 6, 14 at 17:03

I dont understand what soft water has to do with a max setting. Nor do I understand the point of that when a sensor is controlling the water level anyway for every cycle. And water levels for each cycle are known.

No one using this washer could call it dumbed down in any sense. I'm a really fast study and it took me some time to figure things out for the cheat sheet. Tina was very patient with me.

Fact is, I now have a lot of the brand as I like the quality, durability and service. I called them when I needed to disable the softener in the dishwasher because we have a softener. It was very complicated. They talked me through it and I never had to think about it again.

Previously I had major appliances where the brand didnt provide tech support .I would never go back to that. This brand isnt cheap and its part of what I'm paying for.

Bought one of their fridges a few months ago. The freezer door wasnt properly aligned with the fridge door above it. The dealer sent 2 different repair men to fix it after Miele told them it was adjustable. The second guy was their "expert." When he left it still wasnt properly aligned. The Miele techs who came to do the washer repair got the door perfect in about 10 mins.

If a fairly experienced appliance repair person from the largest dealer an hour outside NYC cant adjust a door properly, imagine if he tried to go into program mode. I'll take tech support. I think that's smart, not dumb. I don't have time to spend fiddling with something that can be shortcut with a phone call.

I was told that the discount code will not expire. Was told more than once by different people. They seem to be trying to encourage online purchases of warrantys and accessories. I'm told it also can be applied to miele store purchases and vacuum cleaner purchases, online only. But not other appliances.

I did buy a warranty online with a discount code for the washer/dryer. It registers seperately from anything else you might have registered. Be sure to keep a copy of the confirmation email.

Thanks for the update on the discount code! I have been wanting to buy the extended warranty, and getting a little bit off full price is always a nice thing, especially with Miele. :)

rococogurl, when I first researched Miele washers more than a decade ago, I was enamored of their flexibility. I remember choosing the washer with the idea that I could program up to 4 additional rinses, which was very important to me; we have hard water and had run into the problem of needing more detergent to clean and, therefore, more water to remove the additional soap. Luckily we have well water. With my top loader, I restarted my machine after each cycle to go through the rinse cycle again and would stand and watch for residual soap.

I traveled several hours to a Miele showroom to be introduced to the washer and dryer. I specifically asked about programming extra rinses and was assured it was the case. I was shocked to find, when I got my W1213, it had only the "sensitive" option. I had bought the first "dumbed down" American Miele washer, according to owners of prior models.

We broke out in rashes from too much soap residue. My husband -- who had really stretched the finances to pay for such expensive appliances -- wanted to use them as manure canisters on the front lawn with a sign saying it was the only thing Miele was good for. Instead, he moved my rocking chair into the laundry/bathroom. I followed every suggestion people made. We bought Miele recommended soap. We washed everything without soap. We went to Walmart and purchased new towels to experiment with soap levels without the complication of potentially imbedded soap from the top loader. We even tried softening the water even though people in Europe with very hard water swore the Miele worked without so much as fabric softener. We paid to have our well water tested.

After countless hours of recorded observation and experimentation I've come to love my W1213. It has been a huge help because I live in woolens nine months out of the year but have crippled hands from rheumatoid arthritis. I can "hand wash" my woolens in my Miele and cut drying time on an airing rack to one-third. BUT I had to learn how to work with IT, not make IT work with ME.

Life would have been much easier if I'd been able to purchase an earlier model which basically had the program mode available on the front panel and dozens of options via dials. So I can sympathize with owners who want access to the program mode. Me, I'd rather have a dozen knobs I have to adjust for each load than have dozens of pre-set cycles (BEACH TOWELS, really!?!). Water (temperature, hardness, levels) and detergents are so variable that no two people's EXTRA WHITE loads are gonna work the same. But I was told Miele had done their research and this is what American women wanted, so I not the norm. Seeing how other manufacturers have followed suit, I guess they were right.

Anyway, I LOVE Miele service and, like you, buy THAT as much as the machine. But I find it stupefying that the W3037 NORMAL load does NOT? engage the on-board heater to ensure 140 degrees for a HOT load? Do I understand your cheat sheet right? And, worse yet, the owner's manual does not tell you that?!?The W3038 manual does not spell out when the on-board heater gets called into use, potentially. You can bet that I'm gonna get this on-board heater issue clarified before I purchase a machine.

I gotta say, we really regret having designed this tiny cottage with built-ins that require 24" low riders that have to be stacked. Buying high end appliances every decade on a fixed income isn't in the budget, no matter how good they are -- EVENTUALLY.

I understand about the heater as I had an Asko before with boil wash. It had other issues and a very short life. Bought the Mieles to last.

We are also on well water which is so hard we installed a whole-house softener when we reno'd. That gives me the opposite issue -- I must watch soap amounts carefully. Anything concentrated like Vaska or Woolite can produce Ghostbusters in there.

Both Tina and I confirmed, seperately, that the heater does not engage on Normal in our machines. By all means I'd reconfirm to be sure it hasn't changed. If so, please let us know. They say that "hot" on that cycle is water heater temp. No earthly idea what that's about but it doesn't matter at all. Basically, Normal is a default cold or warm cycle. It isn't anything special. Could be used for dark cottons, f.ex.

Delicates is another issue. I trust I can speak for Tina on this as well but it bugs the stuffing out of both of us that there's no heated hot on that setting. So it's essentially a high water level cool setting and fairly short. I hardly use it.

My basic hot water cycle is Extra White. I also use Wrinkle Free a lot. Sanitize on hot is so great -- for you I'd think it would be a basic with insurance. Sure, they will all be a bit different depending on the water. That varies so much. We both live in the same state but different parts. We compared a lot of notes and both pretty much got the same takes on the various cycles. I think the soap interaction with the water is more of an issue. People swear by Tide. I hate the smell and it doesn't clean in my water. I tried all the fancy brands that had reviews and raves. They didn't clean very well IMO. Everyone has their issues with soap -- cleaning, fragrance, price. Whatever. It's hit or miss.

Just tried the Persil for colors liquid. It deodorizes. Think I will like it. But cost isn't a factor for me as it would be with hard water since a big box of Persil megaperls lasts me a year. 1 scant Tb of a liquid is about right, so that stretches.

The names of the cycles are moronic . But trust me, when you see the UK cycles marked Trainers. Proofing and Soft Toys you quickly realize it's them. And Beach Towels sounds a bit better. That can be handy as a cold-water rinse cycle.

I don't understand how they design the various cycles as there seem to be duplicates. Woolens and Silk f.ex. Dress shirts & table linens. Why a proper rhythm and water level chart would be so useful. There must be reasoning behind the engineering -- it just isn't communicated well, if at all. The next time I'm at a show, when their people are there I am going to corner one. I know it's a question of finding the right person to provide the answers though that person is likely not in this country.

Usually I have sensitive enabled so I get the extra rinsing. If I need more, I throw the load back and use Quick Rinse. I've also thrown stuff back into Drain/Spin.

One UK manual had some great charts that showed water levels, wash rhythm, number of rinses and spins for each cycle. It couldn't be rationalized with our machines but it's what we tried to emulate with the chart.

We're always looking for new info so if you find out anything, it would be great to post it here and/or on the comments below the cheat sheet on Atticmag.

This post was edited by rococogurl on Sun, Dec 7, 14 at 20:56

Will surely communicate what I find.

My machine is totally different than yours. It has no separate rinse cycle so it was really important to get cycles and soap right or else my washes would take 3 hours each. One with soap; one without.

In England there is a website comparable to Consumer Reports that tests appliances, Which? One thing I love about their testing is they include "rinsing" in the metrics. Considering reduced water levels, you'd think our reviews would cover that.

I, too, do not care for scented detergent so Tide was a non-starter for me -- no matter how good Consumer Reports and Good Housekeeping think it is. And, the idea of optical whiteners gives me the creeps. I picture those Febreeze commercials with people loving the scent of the garbage heaps.

The irony is that despite hard water (12 german grains), I use very little detergent (7th Generation Free & Clear powder and liquid and Ecover bleach). But my on-board heater works exactly as advertised so I get warm water rinses and the Miele service technician programed the machine to use the highest water levels available. I don't know what I'd do without a heated Delicates because that cleans my intimates.

Your cheat sheet reflects what I have found regarding agitation levels. VERY different for different cycles. I RARELY use the Custom cycle because the agitation is robust.

Can you imagine if we truly had the ability to control these machines? Set temperature -- and rely on the on-board heater to ensure it -- set agitation level, set water level, set duration, set number of rinses? Then all we'd need -- just like the old days -- would be a chemistry cheat sheet that reminded us which stains need a cool prewash and which need hot.

Sigh

Update from Miele:

The on-board heater for both W3037 and W3038 SHOULD ensure water temperatures as put out in the owner's manual. If yours are not, I'd ask a Service Technician to verify and fix at next service call. Maybe they can hook up the computer to your machine and tell temperature?

What IS different from my W1213 (per this morning's conversation with Miele) is that pre washes and finial rinses are only COLD water -- not good for stain removal or soap removal. I know that if I use the HEAVY SOIL preprogram, it is COLD -- so cold it will not dissolve my powder detergent. Liquid goes in that dispenser. It also explains why it is called HEAVY SOIL and NOT STAIN PRE-TREATMENT. I believe my machine gives warm rinses for warm and hot temperatures simply because of the temperature of the clothes when I retrieve them for the dryer. What I think is supposed to happen -- but I might be talking about pre-Energy Star machines -- is that even a hot load is supposed to start out warm for stain treatment, and slowly bring water up to temp for washing (one of the reasons the cycles take time).

In any case, I am going to look into repairing the W1213 and see if it is feasible. If so I will see if I can stack it with the condensing dryer; I understand there is a universal stacking kit.

Please advise if you solve the water heater issue. It is frustrating not to have an owner's manual that spells out everything so we know what to expect and how to really use these machines.

If you are looking for more euro-like Miele washers, others will remind you of the Miele Professional line, which is quite customizable, but so quite expensive. Another option not usually mentioned is trying the Miele Marine website. They list some euro washers that are still 240V--you just have to choose their 60Hz models (for N. America electrical system compatibility, or get a special transformer that can change frequency and get one of their 50Hz machines).

Here is a link that might be useful: Miele Marine

They were just here with the computer to fix a lose wire last week. Machine is performing per specs. Next time I get a load that needs a 1 h 40 min wash that doesn't need to be hot I'll try Normal and see what happens.

Hope you can get your 1213 repaired. Sounds like you really love it. It would be so great to have a warm rinse option.

Likely an Energy Star requirement.

clean_laundry_lover, do you know anyone who has bought a Miele commercial washer, other than the Little Giant, for their home? I'd like to consider the 20 lb. Octoplus washer, but Miele won't discuss selling it for residential use. I thought I'd found a way around them, when I ran across a salon supply company that features Miele washers, but they sent my inquiry right over to Miele. I don't know, maybe I just have to lie to them and say it's for commercial use, even though the installer will see it's going into my house. Hate to do that, though.

I do not, suburbanmd. I've seen them on Craig's List sometimes though.

djdoggone - I can't speak for the models you are researching, but our Miele W4842 "COLD" setting is 86 degrees F. It has a " No Heat" temp which is Cold straight out of the Cold tap. HTH

rococogurl: I stand corrected by Miele technical services. The W1213 is no different than the W3037/W3038 vis-a-vis when the onboard heater is activated AND cold water rinses (done purposely). Apparently the showroom rep misspoke.

I asked him to step through the differences between the W3038 and my W1213. Other than shorter and more cycles on the W3038, the W1213 gets faster/hotter water because of the voltage.

But the main point is YOU ARE CORRECT: the onboard heater does not activate for water temperature settings below HOT and SANITIZE; it takes the household hot water as is -- which could be a problem if your boiler is set to some extreme temperature, either hotter or colder than the norm, and you want to wash your delicates in warm water. I'll have to find out if there is a household optimum temperature Miele wants the boiler set at. Do you know?

Bottom Line: I'm buying the W3038.

(That sound you heard is my husband sighing.)

dj--Thanks for the correction. I was sure of my info on the washer through the 3037 but they do make changes.

My house hot water is 120F which means Very Warm (122F) is my default. By most accounts, 120-125F is ideal/safe.

On p 47 of the manual it says "The hot water temperature from the hot water valve must not exceed 140F; the ideal temperature is 130F. "

However, the Miele FAQ says the drum will not open if the water is above 130F to avoid scalding.

As I may have mentioned, I had a 240 v Asko with boil wash. I much prefer the Miele performance. You may be coming from pluperfect but others have made the switch without glaring complaints I recall.

Re Normal cycle. Usually I ignore it but after this conversation I decided to give it a go again.

Apart from anything else this is an extremely low water cycle. Our cheat sheet says the load should be no more than 3/4 fill but I plan to amend that. It is small load cycle in addition to the other features.

I have a synthetic fleece robe and a synthetic layering shirt which need a warm wash. The robe is large and fluffy. Washing those two pieces and two bras in a lingerie bag was just about the right size load.

The fill was house hot water.