Hello Covingtoncat, I've made my mind up and am going this week-end to the Miele outlet near Toronto, so no more hassle for you to snap pictures... They told me that 220V washers have the splitter box included! I can't wait to be there and I hope I won't be disappointed!

Now for others who are considering the W48XX/T98XX series, I just heard a rumour that may affect your buying decision.

Disclaimer: It's a rumour so if you really need a W/D and are going for the 10 year warranty promo (Canada only) by all means don't hold back.

So I heard that Miele is going to revamp the Super Size washers and dryers in March. Livebetter was mentioning earlier in this post about the picture that came from Germany with the doors the other way around. Now that I look closer, the machines also seem to be more silver than bone white...Something stinks...

Some issues to be addressed are apparently the doors opening the wrong side and the dryer which is noisy.

Who-Hoo Mihai! We'll be new parents together ;)

For the price, I'm willing to give on capacity. I really hope it will work for you.

Please post pics of the Miele outlet. I'm really curious.

Did you ever get an answer about the size of the dyer v. washer for stacking? Are you still thinking of stacking?

mihai914, can I ask how you know that?? It was my fear I would buy the W4842 and soon after new machines would appear that would fit my space better. If I knew for sure, I'd hold off. Hmmm ....

I can't believe you're going to drive all this way! I sure hope you go home happy. You know the machines are quite heavy right?

W-R, well ... one Tasco sales guy told me yes and another called Miele while I was there and Miele told him no. I hope customer care knows what they're talking about. So confusing.

Covingtoncat, sure I'll try and take some snap shots if they allow me.

After really looking at how I do my laundry I will almost never benefit from the super capacity machines whatever brand they are.

The only bad part of buying from the outlet is that the washer is a 6K and the available dryers are 5K, but I'm saving over 1600$ which is important to me.

I was told that the machines would not stack; I will still try it though since yesterday I passed at a store that displayed the W3035 & T8005 stacked. The system is a rail type which makes me think it would be possible to stack. I shall see, but it's not a biggie since I have room for full size machines in the laundry cabinet.

Livebetter, the rumour came out through a discussion with a sales person. He saw that I had much more interest in the small machines so he let go some info. He really said there was no guarantee that is was true.

This info with the picture you pointed out makes me suspicious. I was considering the full size also (mainly for aesthetics realistically), if I would of bought them and something better came out shortly I would not have been very happy.

Other manufacturers clearly discount appliances because they are end of line, if Miele is just giving a warranty incentive because they will phase out a product I don't feel the consumer receives the same value. After all the 10 year warranty promo is a calculated move by Miele where they are advantaged financially.

As I said if you need machines now and the 10 year peace of mind is in your top three reasons of buying the product don't hold back.

Dimension wize, I don't think they will change much if that's a key aspect, every manufacturer tries to have as much standard stuff as possible to reduce costs.

I can't prove what I've said with facts unfortunately.
A new design is not always better than the previous one.
Maybe I should just have kept my mouth shut.

PS: the drive is long but worth it for me, good thing I have brothers with extra time :)
BTW I compared MTC vs Miele unboxed and the MTC pricing is quite higher if anyone needs to know.

Mihai: Some smaller on-line retailers and also brick and mortar stores may still have the 6K dryers. I found one (Gourmet Appliance Outlet) here that had a couple and I believe a couple of others thru google. Some smaller but higher-end places might be able to help with older stock or referrals? IDK, just a thought.

My observation was that the dryer interior for the 6K set looked slightly larger than the washer, but that could have been because there is no porthole on the dryer. I brought a basket with a set of flannel sheets and a coverlet to try on for size.

Normally I can fit the contents of an entire basket in my washer. WIth the Miele's it was slightly more than half, full but not stuffed to the brim. I don't do that with my washer now, but I've read conflicting reports that you can do that with the Miele's. Any Miele Guru's out there who can confirm or myth bust that for me?

I'm excited for your adventure.

@ Livebetter: Regarding the redesign rumor: the first edition of a new model often has many kinks. I'm sure you've read here on this forum the trials and tribulations of the new release 4XXX's. Units available in the European Marketplace often never make it to ours or are sometimes years in getting here. Is there anyone else whom you've been working with that can do some additional investigating for you w/ Miele's home office?

Best of luck.

mihai914, since you're coming to town anyway ... did you see this set on Kijiji in Barrie?

Here's more info:
http://www.miele.ca/miele/canada/corp_pr3.asp

I'm leaning to biting the bullet on the W4842 + T9822 with the 10 year. My machine is not long for this world and I don't want to wait for it to give out for good.

I'm not too concerned about the doors opening to eachother as I'm going to get pedestals. I always shake every item out before I put it in the dryer anyway so I'll just unload into the laundry basket (sittin on a pedestal) and open dryer pedestal and push over. I can shake each item out and put into dryer. Should work fine.

Here is a link that might be useful: Miele T1576 dryer + washer?

Livebetter, yes I saw pretty much all Miele washers & dryers available in Ontario! If I'm going through all this trouble I might as well go for new.

You still have until Feb 13th to bite the bullet and then no troubles for 10 years guaranteed!

Covingtoncat, I saw those 6K dryers, with shipping it comes out to $1200 while the 5K T1313 goes for $1000 including taxes in Canada.

I wish I was in the states in situations like this, free shipping to your door and no tax most of the time, you guys enjoy it while it lasts!

A lot of states (WA included, I believe) are now trying to collect taxes on big internet appliance purchases. I'm not sure where I read it, or how they would do it, but ..... I think it was here on the kitchen's or appliances forums.

That set looks on Kijiji looks nice, but I can't tell how old it is. It has the dial feature that I've read many people prefer for maximum flexibility. May be worth a look?

BigDogMom_PA: any ETA on your new set? Keep us posted.

Livebetter: Let us know when/if you pull the trigger. I wonder if one of the Laundry Forum regulars with family in Germany might be able to find out anything (hey Larsi, are you there?) about the reverse door model?

Happy Weekend Everyone!

Covingtoncat - nope no word yet. Today is 2 weeks exactly so I hope to hear something soon. Weather has been bad here, so maybe that held things up a bit. I hope to prep my laundry room today, so when they come, it will be an easy install. Want to move out a freestanding cupboard to give them room to work.

So I did 3 loads of my kids' clothes last night and my machine is no longer spinning like it used to ... tick tock ... I need to decide this week and just go for it before I'm left with no machine. Yikes ...

My new "train of thought" was if Miele really is going to update these machines (and I really think they will) maybe I should buy some mid level LGs to last me 6 years and get the newer Miele's then (I wouldn't count on the LGs lasting too long). Crazy?

It's not about spending the money on them - it's about spending the money on them not perfect for my situation and then perfect coming along ... that would bug me.

According to Consumer Reports (for what it's worth) ... there are other machines (like LG) that clean well and are fairly dependable (less repairs than other brands). Maybe it's a good bridge until perfect comes along.

Or I just suck it up not perfect and don't get upset when the new ones come along. That's probably what most "sane" people do ;)

I noticed that Miele is going to be at the Toronto Interior Design Show and they said featuring new products. I may check it out just to see what they are showing.

Mihai: Did you go yesterday? What did you decide? Any news?

WR, bad news ... I spoke with an inside guy at Miele today and he said "no way" on the T9822. He said they have so much stock in the others that that one will be months before available. This is really getting annoying. I'm firing off an email to Miele Customer Service. Come on ... how they do not know if available or not. This is supposed to be the most service oriented company??

I decided today that it's a deal breaker for me. He told me how they would vent the current dryer and it sounds to me like trying to make a square peg fit in a round hole. It shouldn't be so difficult.

I'm either going to get the w4842 and wait on the proper venting dryer or I'm going with the LGs. I'm going to decide tomorrow but I'm not impressed with this poor communication. The LGs will fit the space properly, I won't have to wait (heaven knows how long) for a dryer that will vent without "special" attachments and I'm sure from the reviews I've read it will clean clothes just fine.

I'm really starting to "get over" this whole mess.

Let me know if you heard different.

Livebetter, don't you have until mid Feb to decide? Its horrible to be rushed into a decision. I really sense your frustration w/Miele and I hope you get a straight answer soon. Do they have a 30 day or whatever trail period where you can return (for full refund) if you're not satisfied? That 10 year sure is a hard one to pass up.

If you can make the washer only work for you for now, its a viable alternative, BUT at this price point I don't feel you should have to compromise or settle for anything. Truly.

Hi covingtoncat, the deal is until Feb 13 (I believe) but my machine's days are numbered. I fully expect it to conk out for good any day. I don't want to be left stranded with no washer.

It sounds like the dryer I need won't be available for quite a while - months!

My husband and I were at the store again today and I started to feel like I was trying to put a square peg in a round hole. I was trying to make things work for these machines and it just feels to "hard" - does that make sense?

The salesman put me on the phone with his inside sales rep at Miele and he kept assuring me they would install it no matter what my set up but ... it really felt like bandaid solutions you know?

You are absolutely right ... at this price I expect perfection so why are we using strange adapters so the dryer can be vented and living with a backward set up.

I could get the LGs tomorrow and none of these issues would be there. I actually like them too. I in no way think they are even close to Miele in build quality but they are very nice and I happen to like the lights and sounds (they make me happy :).

I want to place an order tomorrow so I have plenty to stew on tonight. My current dryer is working fine so I could just get the Miele washer and wait for the dryer (it will come at some point). Then my only issue is the backward doors which I can live with. Or get the cute LGs and be done with it. At their price, if I get 6 - 8 years I'd be happy and I could get Miele's then (by then I'm sure there will be a Miele to suit me fine).

Alas ... I wish someone could just decide for me ... sigh ... you all have been so thoughtful listening to this for days :)

When are you getting yours? So excited for everyone getting new machines!

Hi Convingtoncat, sorry for not updating the status (tired and excited). I did go to the outlet center and came back with two brand new machines fully boxed! And I also picked-up a dishwasher for a friend.

Deciding was still hard but it's over and I'm very happy and think I made a good deal! So in the end I have the W1213 with the T1313.

The washer is installed and functional, I'll have to buy a flexible vent duct to get the dryer working.

The washer is very heavy and made it tough to move, not necessarily to install.

I have some pictures for you but nothing spectacular.

Can't wait until you get your set so we can compare notes :)

If you can still snap a picture of the stacking kit and measure center to center for the rails it would be greatly appreciated.

I can suggest one thing now and it is to read the owner's manual really well. There are plenty of options and the machine keeps in memory the last selected settings for every program. So you always have to keep an eye on settings as they do not go back to default.

I'm sure you'll be very pleased with your purchase.

Livebetter, I have some update for you but would prefer sharing off forum, to sum it up, changes will most likely be much more minor than what I heard and in my opinion not worth losing the promo.

Hi mihai914,

So excited for you! Glad it all worked out after your long drive to TO. Let me know how you like them.

I shopped today (as you can read above) and decided I'm either going to get the W4842 and wait on the dryer or go for the LGs. Ahhhh! I spent WAY less time researching our newest vehicle.

Feel free to email me here to discuss your findings re: the updates livebetter387@gmail.com. I spoke to Miele directly today and he said no way for any major updates in the near future. He also said they have SO much stock of the older dryer they won't release the new T9822 that I need for (perhaps) months. Stinks ...

Yay Mihai! So happy for you and glad to hear your trip went well. I will be excited to see your photos, and to hear your reports on your purchase and your adventure. I have the manuals and have spent many hours in perusal. My hubs thinks I am nuts! I would love to know your recommendations for various cycles and types of laundry.

Livebetter, depending on the info you get from Mihai, maybe you will get the info you need to make an informed decision. If Miele does the install modifications, any issues would be still under their warranty, correct?

Whichever you decide, I hope you will love your new machines.

Well, how about some more (mis)information.

I just called Customer Care and they said the T9822 is available but it is showing as backordered. They will and are shipping that model number out. She told me that many of the units sold are for delayed shipment and that they can ship new orders immediately.

Next, I spoke to a salesman yesterday and was told (keeping in mind these people seem to come up with the craziest things) that Miele will introduce an updated model this year (most likely 2nd quarter). And the use of steam is the big upgrade.

And lastly, the rumor going around this large local appliance dealer is that Bosch is getting out of laundry machines this year. He said they are investing 5-6 million in their dishwashers but cancelling the laundry program.

Fun isn't it?

W-R

I think I might cry :( ...

Thanks for the update. I shot off an irritated message to Miele Customer Service last night voicing my irritation over what seems to be terrible communication revolving around these new dryer units.

I'll post back when I hear from them.

It was my fear that new units were coming. Problem is my machine won't last that long ... what to do ... ugh ...

LiveBetter,

There might be some validity to the sales talk you are hearing as Miele's German website is now showing their Supertronic series with SteamCare, automatic dispensing (powder and liquid detergents), spot car selection, etc.; plus a new dryer:

Miele Supertronic

Here is the direct link to brochure in PDF form (copy and paste into Google's translation): Supertronic PDF Brochure

waterloo-red - I sure hope the rumor about Bosch isn't true. My dealer didn't mention anything and loves the Bosch. I'm still waiting to hear when mine will arrive. What would bother me is lack of parts should I need them.

The only thing that would give me comfort is I went w/the Danby which I love and excellent machine, but repairs now are impossible since they quick making them not long after I bought mine. If the actually do discontinue the Bosch, maybe that's telling me I made another good decision.

Either that or I don't have a very good track record. LOL

Congrats Mahai on your new babies. Enjoy. Wish we had a place like that here.

Livebetter - GL making your decision.

Farenheit 451: Wow, that's very interesting. Wonder how long it will take to hit the NA market?

Livebetter: I notice that the washer is still being shown on the right, hmmmm. Are you any closer to making a decision?

W-R: I wonder why Bosch would be dropping their laundry division? That seems really strange. By all accounts its a good product.

My units are supposed to be here Wednesday.

the rumor going around this large local appliance dealer is that Bosch is getting out of laundry machines this year.

According to Appliance Advisor, the rumor is half-true -- the 27" lines will be terminated. 24" models will continue. Details at the link.

W-R, Miele Customer Care told me the exact same thing by email today. It is in total contrast to my phone conversation yesterday with an inside sales person AT Miele. He said, "no way - not for several months".

If I decide to order the Miele units, I sure hope they have that dryer ... I will seriously "blow my stack" if they say no again.

I think it's funny rumours are swirling about Miele and steam. I'm pretty sure I read a Miele person post here that steam is a marketing "gimmick" and you only need a good solid Miele (not steam) to get things clean. Clearly those Germans are getting into the steam.

This is part of my big debate ... if I get the Miele there are no bells/whistles (like steam). Just solid construction and probably long service.

If I get the LGs (WM3885) I get much larger capacity, steam and a host of other features. I may not get as long but what I lack in longevity I'll gain in features. I think I would really enjoy some of those features.

If I could only have both :)

Bigdogma_pa, does this news change your mind re: the Bosch pair? Could you still cancel your order if you wanted?

Livebetter - I called yesterday about my Bosch pair to get an update. The dryer is in, but not the washer. However the washer is due in very soon. It does bum me out that they are discontinuing the line, however, I still think I made a good decision other than the long wait for the "color" I chose. From various dealers I'm getting really good reports on the machine itself. Since my Danby worked out, I'm hoping this will be the same.

I'm also going to start saving for a Miele set for when these go. However, if the reports are true and I get a good 10-15 years out of them, I'll be able to downsize again.

So since every machine I purchase gets discontinued w/in a year or so, everyone who wants a Miele better buy it in the next 10 years, given my track record, if I buy one they will quit making them or at least selling them here. LOL

The funny thing is LG was in the running for me too, it was the water temps and the internal heater use on every load that swayed me. The water temp was more important to me than some of the features on the LG. Mostly I guess because I do have to deal with some sanitation issues on a regular basis and at least for my water, I don't feel cold does a very good job. So that's why temps were important. A warm wash of 85 just isn't warm, it's cold in my book and a hot wash of 105 didn't cut it either. Just my opinion.

bigdogmom, well I'm still looking forward to your review when they are in.

Had your dealer heard the news about Bosch? What did he think?

I currently have no heater so I'm pretty sure any heater will be a step up from here :)

I'm intrigued by the steam functions on the top of the line LGs. Even though some here say it's a gimmick, Miele now has steam in Germany.

My mom just had her new LGs installed yesterday and the installers were telling her about another customer that day with a 4 year old LG that had bit the dust. She didn't get an extended warranty and had to buy a new one. That has me favouring the free 10 year Miele deal again :)

Livebetter - haven't had the chance to ask my dealer about the Bosch announcement. I had called before I read that, so when I talk to them next, I will ask.

Not sure if I mentioned my SIL got a set of LG's for Christmas and so far loves them. This is her first set of FL going from a traditional TL. I gave her all the important instructions so we will see in 6 mo what she thinks by then. However, her DH bought them for her because his DS got a set last year and loves them.

Bigdogma, this is what I have for wash temps for two machines I'm considering. Practically identical.

LG (WM3885)
Extra hot 70 C (158)
Hot 50 C (122)
Warm 40 C (104)
Cold 25 C (77 F)

Miele W4842
Sanitize 70 C (158)
Hot 60 C (140)
Very warm 50 C (122)
Warm 40 C (104)
Cold 30 C (86)

I'd like as much as anyone to see an alternative to Miele, for doing true hot washes. But this paragraph in the WM3885 manual gives me pause:

� Your washer features a heating element to boost the
hot water temperature for Extra Hot settings. This
provides improved wash performance at normal water
heater settings.

I read it to mean that the heater is used only on the Extra Hot setting. If that's so, then with my plumbing (washer far from the domestic water heater) I'd never get a true hot wash, and a warm wash would be doubtful. Even if the washer is next to the water heater, the incoming hot water is going to drop in temperature, because of losing heat to the load and the washer hardware. And the temperature will continue to drop during the wash cycle.

I'd have to push them further but this was the response I got when I enquired about the heater:

"The unit does have an internal heater to ensure water temperatures are correct. The temperature options are as follows:
Cold 25 C
Warm 40 C
Hot 50 C
Extra hot 70 C"

Sorry, I should have pointed out this was my actual question:

"Will it engage the heater to achieve or maintain a certain wash temp (warm or hot)? Also, your manual did not specify what temperature each one is - could you tell me what temperature each setting is (extra hot, hot, warm, cold)?

Their answer would imply it does monitor and maintain but it's a little vague. I'd have to press them for more details.

When I was considering an LG a couple of years ago, LG customer service assured me that it would use the heater to assure the water temperature. A few days' experience with it told me it wasn't doing that...I paused the machine near the end of the wash cycle on a hot wash, and found the clothes barely warm. Also, it would fill with a mixture of cold and hot water on a hot wash, even though it takes a while for my hot faucet to start running hot. I ended up returning it and getting the Miele. Of course this was a different model from the one you're considering.

suburbanmd, so how does the miele heater work exactly? Does the machine fill with hot/cold mixture and then heater ups water to target temp? I know it does not use the heater in Normal mode but I'm talking about other settings (custom/master care)?

So if I select a warm wash in a custom setting does it ensure 104 F for the whole wash?

I'm meeting with my "trusted" sales buy tomorrow morning and I'm hoping to be coming home a new machine owner.

Livebetter,

It's pathetic to say this but I am excited to hear what you end up getting tomorrow!

I have presented two options to my better half. Spend $2700 on the LG 2901 with stands and hope it lasts or drop $4600 on the Miele and have piece of mind for 10 years and, with luck, beyond (oh, and a reverse tumble dryer).

I think I know which way I am leaning.

W-R

W-R, I think everyone on this forum will be glad when I finally commit. They won't have to hear it anymore :) I feel pressure now (LOL) ..

I assume at $4600 you are considering the W4842 + T9822 but no pedestals. Even Miele's pedestals are so much more expensive. Sheesh ...

I'm not sure where you live but Tasco has the LG 2901 (I believe - I know it's 4.5 cu ft) on for a really good price. I believe in the Graphite Steel colour for ... I want to say $1700 (electric dryer as this model doesn't have a gas dryer and pedestals are $189 each).

That messed me up. I would probably have gone for the 2901 but I can't get a gas dryer. I thought about going to an electric dryer as I did have a receptacle installed in case I ever changed my mind about gas ... hmmm ... if I want gas I have to step up to the W3885 or step down to the W2501. Stepping up to the W3885 gets a little pricey for LG (IMO).

I'm hoping my guy tomorrow will help me out. He'll probably tell me to get the Miele (they all do).

My 8 year old was watching LG/Miele videos with me tonight and he said we should get the LG. He said Miele's video didn't tell him much but LG looks like it does so much. "Out of the mouth of babes ..."

suburbanmd, while reading the manual for LG W3885 I noticed it has what appears to be a profile wash. They call it Stain Care. It appears the heater must be used to bring wash temps up:

STAIN CARE
Use this option for heavily soiled loads that need improved stain treatment. When STAIN CARE is selected, the water temperature for the selected cycle will begin as warm water to help prevent the setting of certain types of stains. Then as the cycle progresses, the water will be heated to higher temperatures to help remove stains that require treatment at higher temperatures. This option is designed for optimum stain removal.

NOTE: If STAIN CARE is selected with the SANITARY cycle, the cycle will begin with very hot water since that is default for that cycle and cannot be changed.

I also find this information intriguing ... if it works as they say, this could be a good feature. I worry about washing in really HOT water ... that can't be good for all things.

STEAM cycles include the STEAM FRESH, ALLERGIENE, SANITARY, BRIGHT WHITES, BULKY/ LARGE, PERM.PRESS, COTTON/ NORMAL, HEAVY DUTY and TOWELS cycles. Adding the Steam option to these cycles provides superior cleaning performance while reducing energy and water consumption.

By using a hot steam spray from above and cooler water below, fabrics get the cleaning benefits of a super hot wash, without the energy usage or potential damage to fabrics.

OK Livebetter, I can't wait to hear what you've decided. Hope your meeting goes well. ;)

My news for today: Units are here and INSTALLED! (happy dance) . I ran a quick test cycle with some of the "escapees" found when they removed my previous W/D, and then a sanitary cycle without detergent while the machine was empty.

As the machine has been sitting for a couple of years, I thought that would be a good idea, it smelled a little funky once we ran the test load. Man, did the glass porthole get HOT!

So far, so good, but keep your fingers crossed.

I'm looking forward to some quality laundry exploration soon.

covingtoncat - yeah!!! So happy one of us is doing laundry :)

Really, very happy for you. I hope these machines live up to your expectations for them and you get many years good service from them.

Post an update once you've had a chance to really use 'em.

W-R, not to confuse you but I saw these the other day. Again, have no idea what part of Canada you live in. These are on Kijiji in the Toronto area. I spoke to her via email. Future Shop doesn't have the gas dryer so no good for me but if you want electric this could be a nice deal on TOTL LGs. Based on an on-line price I saw for them, I think you could possible try to offer a little less as well.

Here is a link that might be useful: LG WM3885/DLEX3885 - BNIB - Kijiji

@ Livebetter: Keeping my fingers for you today and looking forward to hearing your decision.

You too, W-R.

Livebetter,

Come on! You're killing us! What happened today?

W-R

What W-R said. Inquiring minds want to know.

W-R: are you any closer to deciding?

BigDogMom_PA: Any dates yet?

I am washing my first official load on my Miele's as I type.

I ran a test load when installers were here (just to confirm units powered, filled, spun, etc), then a sanitary load last night to check heater (worked), then one with just persil to try and clean out any residual "funk," and now my first mixed load of darks. I filled it pretty full, but hopefully not overly so. Using woolite for darks and ecover FS. Fingers crossed.

Sorry all! 'Been running all day ...

No decision yet but I had a great conversation with my sales "guy" this am. He's a good guy - no pressure to buy anything particular. He gave me good info on both the Miele and LG. If any one is interested, he said his first choice after Miele is Samsung (but no gas dryer so onto LG for me). He's not a fan of Whirlpool/Maytag and he showed me some reasons.

He works at the store where they sell the most Miele in all of Canada so he knows Miele. Miele has also paid for him to go to Germany and see manufacturing first hand.

He, of course, is sold on Miele's commitment to quality build/materials. He said they ask Miele about steam all the time as every brand offers it now. Miele said they won't do it until they can do it perfect.

He had nothing bad to say about the LG. He said if you get a good one they are great. He said if you get a bad one ... it used to be worse but they have changed their policy and after 3 service calls they give you a new machine. They figured out (under warranty) any more calls was costing them more than just giving a new machine to replace an obvious lemon. That's reassuring.

With his cost, the LG would run me about $1,200 less and he says there is no reason I shouldn't get at least 10 years ... maybe 15. Of course, Miele will take me 20 or more ... "they" say.

The reason for the delay is I quizzed him about the supposed changes to the W4XXX so he called his people at Miele. Sounds like just some minor aesthetic stuff but I showed him the left hand washer and he wanted to know more. He pushed them about the left hand washer and no one was saying too much.

The IDS (Interior Design Show) starts today and my "guy" is going to the Miele invitation only party. He says they usually show/talk about what's coming so he wants me to wait until tomorrow when he can tell me more.

Have I decided?? Still not 100% ... I'll wait to hear more tomorrow. If it is truly just aesthetics than no biggie but if they are going to come out with a left hand door than I want to know.

He also confirmed with two different Miele people that yes indeed the T9822 is available to ship.

Bottom line, I can have either set installed early next week and be doing laundry without stressing my machine will implode (which is what is happening as I type).

I really do like both - in a perfect world I'd have both ... LOL ... but alas ... I'll have to choose one.

I may be leaving town for the weekend so if you don't hear from me tomorrow it may not be until Tuesday that I get back on here. Sorry you have to wait a little longer ... :)

Here's something I thought of today, my "guy" was giving me some performance points about Miele today that I hadn't read anywhere. Things Miele tells them about the machines. For one example, the 4.0 cu. ft. drum is the "perfect" size for properly tumbling the clothes for the best clean and their tumble action is different than others. I realized today that Miele does a lousy marketing job. In everything I've read and seen, hardly any real "meat" about what sets them apart (besides their quality and their honeycomb drum). A little "ah ha" moment today ... I mean what is with their website?? They need serious marketing help ... they haven't even updated their site with the W4842.

He told me if Miele would put a machine that's opened up on the sales floor so they can show customers what's inside people would buy them no hesitation. It's just all that stuff in "intangible" because you can't see it. Makes sense.

I mean what is with their website?? They need serious marketing help [...] He told me if Miele would put a machine that's opened up on the sales floor so they can show customers what's inside people would buy them no hesitation. It's just all that stuff in "intangible" because you can't see it. Makes sense.

Miele marketing reminds me very much of German car marketing back in the 70s -- very understated and, seemingly, very much based on the belief that they didn't need to sell the sizzle when they had the steak. BMW did a lot of work on ergonomic factors that carries through every car these days. VW mentioned deep in their literature that the surround on their ignition key was as big as it was because that way it would not penetrate an eye socket in a crash. Mercedes-Benz created self-cleaning taillamps. All good stuff, lost in a sea of leather and feel-good marketing offered by other manufacturers. Of course, anyone with the good sense to buy a proper car (appliance) would recognize a superior product. Wouldn't they? :-o

steve_o, you're giving consumers a lot of credit ...

I worked in advertising/marketing for 18 years on national and international brands (I decided to stay home with my kids 2 years ago). My husband still works in "the business".

Most of today's consumers want information. With the Internet, people are able to find just about anything (why your website should be easy to navigate and helpful). The brands that are top selling are the brands that do the most advertising. I've had two separate retailers tell me LG sells more than Samsung because of their ads. At least here in Canada ... they do a lot of advertising.

I think Miele is missing out there. I think if they did a better job telling people what "exactly" makes their machines worth twice as much it would be better for them. I, for one, want to know all the nuances that make the Novotronic system better than any one elses.

I'm not sure they have the LG budgets for advertising but they sure could do much better with their website and in-store material. Nothing in-store that told me much of anything. As opposed to LG which had a video monitor playing detailed information and take away materials - crazy.

I mean, Miele's site isn't even up to date with their latest models. If I was researching I would only see info on the W4840. They haven't even put the W4842 on there yet. They certainly haven't updated the site with the new multi-venting dryers - how would I know that was even an option?? My "guy" today asked them if they planned to update their site sometime this decade - what does that say.

@livebetter... North America is an afterthought for Miele. Check out the German or British Miele web sites. They are far more robust and professionally done. Those countries also get the latest Miele models while we are a year or two behind. The W48XX would be the only exception, since that series was developed specifically for the North American market. It's funny that they develop a product specifically for North America but then do virtually nothing to market or promote it against other brands.

As far as temps are concerned, the MIele W4842 will engage the heater in all modes except Normal and possibly Delicates. I have confirmed that the heater works in Wrinkle-Free, Custom and the MasterCare cycles. The unit will use ATC to fill the machine with water as close to the target temperature as possible, then use the heater to get it up to temp and maintain it for the duration of the wash. There is also a service menu setting where you can change the machine to cold fill only, and the heater will engage and slowly raise the temperature from cold, just like a profile wash. However, doing this will take longer to hit the target temperature - possibly the entire length of the wash portion.

The Miele is certainly not perfect. The suspension/balance system is nothing to write home about - my 8 year-old Asko has a better suspension, and I would think LG, Samsung, and Electrolux all have better designed suspension systems for less vibration and noise. The Miele WILL vibrate, it's just an unavoidable fact of the design. Even when perfectly leveled. However, the other aspects of the machine make up for this. It's very simple and straightforward to operate, and very much a "set it and go" type of machine. Regarding tumble pattern and whatnot, anything you hear is 2nd hand unless confirmed by Miele. I can confirm that Extra White has a more aggressive and faster tumble than Wrinkle-free. Extra White is also more aggressive with the intermediate spins between rinses.

I bought Miele because I felt it was the best engineered machine and had the most research behind it in terms of clothing care.

sshrivastava, my "guy" says it's more like 4 years behind.

I checked out the US site (not sure why I didn't do that sooner). It does a slightly better job of explaining the features and what that means to me. Canada is downright sad which because they are a "premium" brand is even sadder to me.

I think when you've worked in my field you become a cynical consumer. I've been in the marketing meetings/the advertising agency briefs/behind the glass of focus group testing ... when you realize the "marketing machine" that is behind everything you really question what is "real". Does that make sense??

I'll bet if you polled people about direct drive washer motors most people would say LG has one and that it must be better (based solely on their marketing). But is it really or is it just their way to "market" their washers to seem better so you buy them?

I would ask the same questions about Miele's claims. I feel this way about everything we buy. I feel the need to try and dig below the "fluff" and find out what's real. Easier said than done.

Thanks for your feedback on temps. I'm not that particular about the whole "perfect hot" water thing. I'm not going to do boil washes on a regular basis so a warm or hot is going to be enough (has been until this point in my life). I do like that it will maintain it ... but I'd be curious how much heat is really lost in a cycle.

Some of the things Miele is lacking worry me. Vibration isn't one of them since it is going in my basement laundry (tile over concrete). That's why the LG is so enticing, it seems to have everything, including profile wash, but the longevity and quality are the unknown. I played with the controls the other day and it too seems pretty straight forward to me. Much like Miele you select a setting (ie. towels) and you can customize any of the categories (ie. wash/rinse temp, spin speed, etc).

I thought it was interesting in Consumer Reports that the W4842 did not score super high on gentleness. It did score high in wash performance and some other points (in fact only washer to score 5 excellent). I think it scored good but for a machine that markets itself as the most gentle on clothes, you would think that too would have been excellent.

You can only assume from what Miele says that they are well engineered and that Miele knows fabric care. One would hope for that price, it treats you laundry like no other would :)

steve_o, you're giving consumers a lot of credit ...

Not really lol I never said that old German marketing model was good. :-) It was very engineering-centric, which appeals primarily to the "obsessed" (if you will) and not to the widest population of potential customers. Miele -- as well as BMW and Mercedes-Benz (and, to a lesser extent, VW and Audi) -- has not done a very good job in describing to consumers exactly what sets them aside from the others and why they're worth the (considerable) money over the others.

OTOH, given the American penchant for buying stuff by the pound, maybe explaining things like optimally-sized washer drums or direction-altering Cardan tunnels just isn't worth the advertising dollars.

A couple of things...
NOTE: If STAIN CARE is selected with the SANITARY cycle, the cycle will begin with very hot water since that is default for that cycle and cannot be changed.This is not a profile wash. From what was written in an earlier post, the LG will do a Stain Care/profile wash on lower temperature cycles but not on the Sanitary cycle. This makes no sense, as the sanitary cycle would benefit the most from a profile wash - start at a low temp and bring the water up to a very high temperature. Something doesn't smell right.

As to the comment about Miele not designing steam into their machines until they can "do it perfectly", I think that is a cop out on Miele's part. Miele includes steam function in their commercial products, so why not bring a less expensive variation that technology to the consumer level? I have always viewed steam as a gimmick in washing machines. I can understand their function in the dryer, but so far I've just read a lot of negative feedback about how the clothes are left limp and wet. I have much better luck by spraying water on the item I want "steamed" and then throwing it into the dryer for about 10 mins. Perfect results every time without the need to run water to your dryer.

I'm not sure what technical reason (or not technical?) LG has for not being able to over ride the Sanitary setting when Stain Care is selected. I think even on just a hot wash this option is beneficial as it will start warm and go up to hot. I don't believe that's an option on the Miele?

For me personally, this whole "high temp" doesn't feel like a big deal. Having never had a heater, I don't feel the need to boil my stuff. I really question what items I will wash on sanitary anyway (sheets?). My sheets are good quality Egyptian cotton ... what does that do to fabrics? It scares me ...

What is nice about steam (Miele has this in Germany now so there must be some benefit or Miele is just following the pack) is you can sanitize without submerging items in super hot water (which is better for fabrics).

LG says this about the steam option in the washer: By using a hot steam spray from above and cooler water below, fabrics get the cleaning benefits of a super hot wash, without the energy usage or potential damage to fabrics.

The LG dryer (DLEX3885 / DLGX3886) even has a:
SteamSanitary
SteamSanitary cycle refreshes and sanitizes dry items in
the SteamDryer . The SteamSanitary cycle kills bacteria
on your clothes and is great for decorative pillows and other non-washable items.

This is one of the features I like as I don't want to wash in such hot water ... this gives a no water way to sanitize. Great for kids stuffed toys/pillows ... if it's for real than I think that is great. It is NSF certified to sanitize so I would hope it works.

I just returned from a kids' birthday party and got taking with my good friend's SIL. She just got Miele about 2 months ago after owning Maytag (they build custom homes and move a lot). She wasn't blown away by the Miele. She did say they were more quiet than her Maytag (intersting) but there were a few things she wasn't thrilled about. For example, she likes to toss something in the dryer for a quick fluff and the Miele won't allow it as the item is dry so the sensor won't run the dryer. She's tried the cold fluff and it doesn't work for her.

For example, she likes to toss something in the dryer for a quick fluff and the Miele won't allow it as the item is dry so the sensor won't run the dryer. She's tried the cold fluff and it doesn't work for her.Your friend is correct, the Miele dryer does not work well with single items or very light loads; it much prefers large loads. There is a "45 min warm" setting, but it is made for the items to be placed atop the dryer rack accessory that comes with the unit.