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jungleexplorer

Do HE TL washer really Clean?

I have had a traditional Maytag TL washer for the last 10 years. The motor went out yesterday in the middle of a wash, so I was off to Lowes to buy another. Things have changed a lot in the washer world in the last 10 years. I wanted to go with a FL. I did some online research before heading for the store and found a Samsung WF461AWB 3.9 Cu for $699. It had good reviews so I went to buy it. Well, Lowes out and was not getting any in until after Thanksgiving. So there I was, wet clothes in my broken Maytag and no idea what to buy. Lowes had the WF350ANW FL for $499, but it was only a 3.7 Cu and it just looked kind of small to me. All other FLs with higher capacities over 4 Cu were all over $1,100 (out of my reach). So I went looking at TLs. They had the Samsung WA5451ANW 4.7 Cu on sale for $649. The tub looked huge without the agitator sticking up in the middle, so I bought it. BTW, I camp a lot and wash sleeping bags all the time and that is why I want a big tub.

I am on my second load and I must say that I am worried. It really does not seem like this thing could get clothes clean. On the normal setting it does not seem to put enough water on the clothes. It has a glass top so I can watch it work. The water level is like two inches below the level of the clothes. The agitator spins one way, stops for about two seconds, spins the other way, stops for 2 seconds, and spins the other way. The clothes don't even seem to circulate. How could they? There not even enough water to float them. I know these new HE washer are designed to save water, but saving water in not as important as getting clothes clean.

Now I know that FL can use less water and get away with it because the clothes tumble inside the drum as it rotates horizontally, but can these HE TL washers do the same with just that X shape thing on the bottom that replaced the agitator? Please help me! I am really upset here. Did I buy the wrong washer? Is it defective? Can this HE top loading washer really get clothes clean?

Comments (151)

  • mamapinky0
    8 years ago

    I have never had a FL HE machine so I can only comment on what I've read, but some things do get me to wondering..like when people have a great detergent scent comming out of the washer of a FL'er, why is there a detergent scent? Unless its formulated for long lasting scent, but most arnt...I thought this ment detergent still remained in the clothes? ?

    Also, I have repeatedly read about extra rinses, sometimes a lot, and some that look for hidden rinse cycles even though they already have multiple rinse cycles...these are two factors that confuse me. and probanly the biggest factors in why I don't have a FL washer. Because no one has ever explained to me why a basic detergent leaves scent in clothing even after multiple rinses...so its led me to believe there's detergent not rinsed out and that the multiple rinses are not saving water. Inquiring minds want to know.

  • rococogurl
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    @jungleexplorer -- You don't want an HE machine? Buy an old one. It is a free country. If you don't like the laws where you live, move.

    I'm so sick of this "blame the government for removing our freedoms." We're talking about washing machines here. Nobody's freedoms are taken away when you have the freedom to buy a washing machine that uses as much water as you want it to. You can find one. People here did and do. No one is forced to buy a POC washer. Just do the research and get one that works for you. If you don't like it, sell it.

    A lot of people who work in offices do "real work." It might be different work from yours but no less valuable. Don't pull that macho shtick around here because it doesn't wash.

    It's not fair if your neighbor watering his lawn and filling his pool leaves you short of water to wash your clothes. That's why they make those laws. I agree they are annoying and sometimes ridiculous. But laws get put in by majority vote. If you don't like the way the majority votes where you live, again, you have the freedom to move. I've done it. It works.

    As far as light bulbs are concerned, when I can get a light bulb that gives me better light and costs me less money why would I care if I can't get an old bulb that gets hot and costs more to use. That's just dumb.

    You don't sound like a dumb person. Lighten up. We're happy to hear about your laundry but the put downs are not civil in this forum. There are ways to express your opinions freely without resorting to that.

  • Diego
    8 years ago

    mamapinky0 I've seen plenty of waterless washing machine designs surfing the web. The air washing only works with nano-engineered fibers which don't get wet because they don't absorb water (the clothes swirl in a current of sanitizing ozone and that's it). The other design uses only a cup of water (absolute terror scream) and then removes the water using something like cat litter (drops dead).

    I have a regular FL that leaves clothes smelling like detergent scent only when I use cheap powdered detergent. When I use expensive powdered detergent, my clothes come out smelling like nothing. I guess it's not just the machine at fault here.

    Youtube turned out to be a great source of intel regarding laundry-nut people. I've seen the Waveforce, the Calypso, the multiple and fascinating LG FL machines, steam cycles... And much, much, more... This one will blow your mind:


  • dadoes
    8 years ago

    The two frontloader I've used, which were both refurb/repair projects for other people, rinsed very well, leaving very little residual detergent scent with the default two rinses.

    The most recent was a 2011 Samsung unit. One of the test loads after repair was a sheet and two towels that were used during care of a ill dog a few months ago. They were left in the dog room (an enclosed patio) ... dirty, although not "puppy-soiled." I used two tablespoons of Persil 2-in-1 Complete which is known for its strong scent. Heavy Duty cycle, two rinses, the items came out smelling of ... fabric.

  • The Jungle Explorer
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    @itguy08

    "So my point here is this. After over five years of using this HE washer, there is no question that it does not clean as good as those good old Non-HE washers with that wonderful paddle agitator in the middle. This point is not up for debate here. Anyone that wants to debate this issue at this point is just an enviro-nut that can't see the truth for their own environmentalism brainwashing."

    "Sounds like a FL vs TL argument right there with some insults thrown in."

    Dude! Do you even hear yourself? The terms TL and FL are not even used in the portion of my statement you quoted. The terms HE and Non-HE are used.


    @the rest of posters here. The above is a prime example of what frustrates me. I find the above statements by itguy08 very offensive. You see, you guys get all off about me using terms like, Enviro-nut or White Collar office worker and say I should not use Offensive Names like that. But what you guys are so hypocritical about is that you could careless if you offend me or anyone else by your incessant misquoting and misinterpretation of what I said. I find that even more offensive then if you just called me an idiot outright. You are all doing the same exact thing by your actions.


  • Diego
    8 years ago

    Mr. Jugle, is your HE machine a (samsung)FL which uses very little water? And is your Non-HE machine a regular TL which uses lots of water? Just curious...

  • The Jungle Explorer
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    @rococogurl Please show me where I said that office workers do not do "REAL WORK? Here is what I said:

    "Sure these types of washers might work fine for people that have white collar jobs in an air conditioned office, but for the rest of us that have dirty jobs, they just don't work that well"

    I don't mean to be offensive here, but may I give you a lesson in reading comprehension? My statement was not about class warfare. It is about clean jobs vs dirty jobs. I used the term "White Collar" (which is a classification of job type and is not an insult), but I also added the additional qualifier of "Works in an air condition office". This qualifier narrowed the meaning of the term White Collar" down to only those that work in a climate controlled office where they would be less likely to sweat or encounter significant amounts of dirt, grease and other hard to remove contaminates. (Note: Notice how I used the qualifier "Less likely" in this last sentence so that you would not assume that I was saying that it was impossible for a person in office to get dirty. (-; ). I also did not use the term, "Blue Collar" but narrowly defined the opposite person I was talking about as having "Dirty Jobs".

    No where in my statement did I even sideways indicate that people that work in air condition offices do not do "Real Work". As a computer technician and web designer I myself have held such positions, among many others, such as sales person, and bank loan closer.

    The problem with you is that you are bringing in past debates into this thread. You saw the term white collar and your hackles went up and you pegged me for a person with whom you had a disagreement with in the past and vented your frustrations with them on me.

    I just ask you and everyone to read what I say; not what you think I said. Move past your own inhibitions, bias and insecurities and try to see what I am saying. I am a person unlike anyone you have ever met. I can guarantee that you have never in your whole life met anyone who is remotely close to me in personality. Do not assume I am the same as other people you know and have dealt with in the past. I am an individual. Talk to me, not everyone else you have argued with in the past.

  • The Jungle Explorer
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    @ Diego. I have owned both HE and Non-HE FLs and TLs and the Non-HE FL and TLs washed considerably better then the HE FL and TLs. And your point was...........?

  • rococogurl
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    @jungleexplorer -- I don't know you and never will. I make no assumptions. You don't know me either. I am merely responding to your comments here, on this thread.

    This is a laundry forum, not Hot Topics. If you want to fight move over there. I did suggest forcefully that rants about lack of freedom are without merit. We all have choices.

    Folks here are not going to parse your every word or correct your spelling errors. We're here to talk about fun things -- how our washers work, which detergents we like and which we don't. We compare fabric softeners. We like to post videos of our front loaders doing amazing things.

    Few of us have any complaints because we know being laundry-nuts is a luxury. We are lucky we can be here and find likeminded online friends. You can join us or not. Your choice.

    That said, I guarantee that if my front loader can get a 3 day old stain from a pot of coffee out of my husband's chinos then I'm happy and have photos to show what it did. You don't like my washer -- no problem for me.

    Your initial post was just fine. Just play nice.

  • mamapinky0
    8 years ago

    Jungle, I reread your post...I was ready to apologize to you for jumping the gun...but. **For the rest of you enviro-nuts and white collar job people*** ***anyone that wants to debate this issue at this point is just an enviro-nut that can't see the truth for their environmentalism brainwashing***

    First of all you brought the subject up, yet if anyone debates it they are a environmentalism that has been brainwashed.

    Second of all...when you started a sentence out with ***here is the truth*** you should have referred to YOUR TRUTH, but you stated it as if your word is devine.

    IMO its perfectly fine for you to have said the things you said, but I'll say again if the name calling would have been left out....believe me I get how you feel, I also feel its wrong for anyone to tell us what type of washer we have to use...yes we have a choice but if someone chooses a standard top loader that uses water that person has to find a used one..that's WRONG..a TL lover has as much right to a new machine as a FL user....

    You have used a HE machine and found it wasn't enough for your needs and you can and should post about that, but you came off sounding exactly the way you wanted it to sound...derogatory to other FL users. Your too word wise not to know how people would iinterpret what you said.

    I suggest you start over, say how you feel about the subject, without name calling. There are TL users here just as there are FL users..if done correctly a debate of this nature would be a terrific learning adventure, for all of us.


  • The Jungle Explorer
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Mamapinky0 Thank you for your response. You seem like an intelligent and balanced person. Yes, I knew that my post would generate a lot of response. How could it not? I knew that there would be some people here that would take what I said personally, instead of generally as I meant it, and start pushing their pet peeve arguments. It seems that in this world today, it is okay to be a radical environmentalist and spout off those mantras as much as you want no matter who it offends, but if you hold different ideas that are not in line with the environmentalism agenda, you are evil and offensive. It does not matter if your are talking about washers, guns, animals or anything else, you will always be attacked if you divert from the environmentalist "Party Line".

    Since I have lived in this country I have found that the over whelming majority of Americans (here I go name called again) have the inability to admit they were wrong. I could go into a long discourse trying to describe what I mean but instead I am going to use a shortcut word to save time, in the same manner that I used the words "Enviro-nut" and "White collar" to save time and writing. The word I am going to use here is, "Trumpian" Trumpian, means to be like Donald Trump, a an arogant self conceded person who has the inability to admit he is wrong about anything. When I use this word, no one here needs to take it personally, unless of course the shoe fits.

    So I will attempt here to not be Irumpian. I will state here that, if anyone here was offended by certain words I used in my post that started this whole discourse over the last few days, I apologize. What I will not apologize for is what I "INTENDED" my post to be about. In spite of what everyone here insist on trying to make my post about, I actually know what the idea I was trying to convey better then you do. I personally, find it very offensive that you guys keep tell me what my post was about and what I meant to say. It actually quite absurd. I have articulated several times since what my post was about, but you guys keep telling me that it was about something else. Don't you think I know what I intended to say?

    I mean, think about it for a minute. If I were actually trying to make an argument about TLs being better then FLs, don't you think that I would have continued to try to stress that point? Or if were trying to argue about white collar vs blue collar; does it not make since that I would have continued to try to make that point?

    I will state here once more. No matter what you try to make of it, my post was about one thing and one thing only. It was not about FLs vs TLs, white collar vs blue collar, or HE vs Non-HE. It was about one thing and one thing only. It was about people that subscribe to the radical environmentalist view point that try to force that view point on everyone else and try to encourage laws that would take away our freedom to choose. Are there people on here like that? I would bet there are. Are they going to be offended by what I said. Absolutely! And I am okay with offended them, because they offend me with their actions. I will not apologize for offending them, because I know they are offend by me for the simple fact that I hold a differing ideology then them.

    So there you have it. I am going to state here, that if someone comes back and tries to defend their wrong interpretation of what I said by quoting a fragment of what I said in an effort to try to prove that, I somehow do not know what I mean, and that I actually meant something else then what I said I meant; I will consider that more offensive then you calling me a NAME. So if you don't like being called names, then don't try to convince me that I don't know what I mean, just because you want to make my statement out to be about something else and you are Trumpian and will die refusing to admit that you wrongly interpreted what I said.

  • mamapinky0
    8 years ago

    I read this twice, now my sister who has never liked me has often said I'm not the brightest crayon in the box, my response was always, you will find me in the Neon package of crayons, vibrant, and dramitic.

    I completely understand what your saying here Jungle and I absolutly agree! Some people may say WHAT, what are you saying Mama, you don't even have a HE machine, and I don't, but I'm old, and I like what I like, and I've never been good with change. I'm not pleased that the government is able to call the shots on how much water is allowed in a washer, or what temp your allowed to have come out of your water lines into your machine, I think consumers should have choices, this is America. I don't think because someone likes a standard top loader that operates like I'm used to that I should have to choose between the used ones on Craigs list. I think I have just as much right to a new machine that operates like a standard as those that like a HE machine.

    In not alone here, even the washing machine manufactures balk at being told how to build their machines, Alliance has put off as much change as they dared. Obviously there's a lot of people even here that are not happy with certain regulations, because I've seen comments like, if only my machine had more water in the rinse, or I add a gallon of water thru the dispensers. Or even my machine only has cold rinse, wish I had warm rinse. Vut none of this is even the point..the point is our choice of functions on a washer has been dictated to us. Fight these laws? How does one do that? Consumers can fight against this all they want, but it won't change a thing.

    Water shortage...we should still have a choice..I would think most people care about the world they live in and act accordingly..but maybe not.

    This post has NOTHING to do with FL are better or TL is better, how would I know that, I've never used a FL.

    Jungle, I do understand what your saying, and your last post I found nothing wrong with...matter of fact I sensed you skirting around as if not to offend anyone.

    The Jungle Explorer thanked mamapinky0
  • Diego
    8 years ago

    I don't like people getting ensnared in word traps. I'm moving on to other threads.

  • mamapinky0
    8 years ago

    Don't like word games myself..which is why I always try to be careful LOL.

  • suburbanmd
    8 years ago

    Re mamapinky's post above starting "I have never had a FL HE machine", about rinsing: The only publicly-available rinsing tests I've heard of, are the ones performed by the Australian consumer magazine Choice. Among the pros they list for top-loaders is "Generally have better rinse performance." Among the cons for front-loaders is "Some may rinse poorly due to their low water usage." Now, this is Australia where water is very scarce, so results for American washers may be different. Rinse scores for individual washers are available only to subscribers. Since they're Australian models of limited relevance to me, it isn't worth paying the minimum 3 months access to see the scores.


    mamapinky, I don't know if the separate rinse-only programs on Electrolux, LG, etc. are generous with water like on Mieles. If they are, then letting a good FL do its superior washing automatically, and then doing an extra rinse program (which on Miele does 2 rinses) might give you overall the same results you get now, with less work than the manual soaks and occasional soup pots of hot water. I'm mentioning this because you said rinsing is the biggest reason you're avoiding front-loaders. Though I remember you did buy a front-loader which turned out to not work at all.


    Re water abundance and scarcity: I just read a book "Water: The Epic Struggle for Wealth, Power, and Civilization" by Steven Solomon, that I ran across at the library book sale. It's technical and historical (for the general reader), not political, and covers water supply around the world from ancient times to the beginning of this decade. Reading it through makes it clear why authorities have decided that reducing water usage of plumbing fixtures and appliances is for the greater good. Which isn't to deny that there have been poorly functioning products, and a learning curve, along the way.

  • dadoes
    8 years ago

    Water is a serious concern in some areas, there's no dispute on that fact. Try telling the rice farmers in this TX county who have been shut down for several years due to drought that there's no concern over water, see how far you get. :-)

  • itguy08
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    @junglexplorer

    You really are a piece of work..

    "Dude! Do you even hear yourself? The terms TL and FL are not even used in the portion of my statement you quoted. The terms HE and Non-HE are used."

    Re-read your post from 3/3 (Last Thursday) @ 8:48am.

    "I returned that washer and bought a Samsung FL (Model: WF520ABW). I have had it since November of 2011. It is still works like new and has not needed any repairs. As far as getting clothes clean, well, I guess it does a good enough job for most things other then heavy dirt. It cannot touch my 10 year old non-HE Roper (with a good ol' center paddle agitator) that I keep out the shed for getting clothes really clean.

    ...snip...

    So my point here is this. After over five years of using this HE washer, there is no question that it does not clean as good as those good old Non-HE washers with that wonderful paddle agitator in the middle. This point is not up for debate here. Anyone that wants to debate this issue at this point is just an enviro-nut that can't see the truth for their own environmentalism brainwashing."

    Those are YOUR words. Not mine. No inferences there. Just your own words. As I said "Sounds like a FL vs TL argument right there with some insults thrown in."

    If that "offends" you then I don't know what to say cause you said this all yourself. No inferences, no misquoting just what you said in black and white.

  • The Jungle Explorer
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    dadoes. I live in Texas! I farm in Texas. My annual rainfall has been less then 10 inches a year on average (except for 2015) for the past 8 years since I have lived in my current location. That does not change the facts about the global water cycle I made. The fact is, the ocean produces 92 QUADRILLION gallons of purified fresh water each year that returns to the rivers and lakes of the world. This cycle has been going on since the beginning and it has not changed. Sure in some areas, there is less water then others, but to make everyone live by a standard of living that only effects a small portion of the population, is not right. Go tell the people in the Mississippi valley that there is water shortage when their house floats away year after year because of too much water.

    My point is simple, let people choose what fits their needs and stop trying to make everyone live by your standards (not you personally). But environmentalist are not content to choose for themselves. No, they want to choose for everyone else, and that is what I am angry at. I have no problem with people wanting to use a more water efficient washer, it is them that have a problem with me not wanting to use their beloved HE washer.

    The bottom line is that environmentalist are hungry for power and control of our lives and I for one will not be quite about what I see them doing in the world. They are not honest about their intentions though. They have their agenda and it's not pretty.

    Your post is a great example of how environmentalist operate. Their main tool to push their agenda is to try to create a rule based on an exception. Take for example your comment about rice farmers in Texas, and using that as an example to back the idea that their is a water shortage. I think I can say with absolute certainty that, Rice Farmers in Texas is an extreme exception. I have lived in and traveled all over Texas for 25 years and I have never once a seen as rice farm. I have also lived in the Amazon (oops! I am showing my age here) where rice is commonly grown. Rice requires an abundance of water. Anyone who tries to grow rice in Texas does not have their head screwed on straight.

    But my point is this. You tried to use an exception to the rule to back your argument that there is a need for water conservation. This is a common practice for environmentalist (not saying that is what you are). They will point to some African village and say with great concern and emotion, "This African family lives on less then one gallon of water a day. A typical American will use more water to brush their teeth then this whole family gets in a day." Then they will go on to talk about way you can help by conserving water. My question is, how the heck will me using less water to brush my teeth help that family?????? The two things have no connection what-so-ever. If you want to help a family in Africa, go drill them a well! I know this works because I have done it! (Not in Africa, but in Mexico).

    All I am saying is this. Let people choose for themselves. My hope is that one day I will be able to go to any store and have a choice between buying an HE washer or a Non-HE washer (Among other things).

    Let me say this here so that you don't get the wrong idea about me. I am not a wasteful person. I am actually a huge proponent of responsible conservation. I know you are laughing right now in unbelief, but it is true. The problem is that most people don't understand the huge difference between environmentalism and conservationism. They view them to be one in the same and nothing could be farther from the truth.

    Environmentalism is religion. It has a god called Mother Nature. It has rituals and sins just like every other religion. Environmentalist are always trying to proselytize people into their religion. They are very active in this regard. They go around trying to make others feel "Guilty" for their environmental sins or crimes against nature and telling them they should repent of their environmentally unfriendly ways by changing the way they live. They condemn, ridicule and attack anyone who does not agree with. They don;t believe people should have the right to choose how to live, they believe that most people are too ignorant to make their own decisions and that they are the only ones that have the true Answer and that they should tell everyone else how to live their life.

    In the more radical parts of the environmentalist religion, they actual teach that humans are an infection on Mother Earth that is "Harming" her. Many of them believe firmly that the earth is over populated and that in order to save Mother Nature, they need to (and I quote) "Reduce the human population to one half billion As Soon as Possible". Just think about what they want. They want to kill off SEVEN BILLION PEOPLE. If you don't believe me on this I can provide proof. The people that believe this way are actual some of the most powerful people in the world. They are actively engaged in this effort and have already murdered tens of millions of people. Of course, they do in such a way to make it seem that they are "Kind and Caring" and are "Only doing what is best for the human race". They are never honest about their true objectives, but always try to convince people they are trying to do whats best for them. In environmentalism, mankind is the problem and Mother Nature would be better off without us.

    Conservationism on the other hands stems from the belief that God created the earth for man's use, but not his abuse. In conservationism, man is the pinnacle of God's creation (not an infection) and that God entrusted the earth to man's care and expects us to be good stewards of what He has entrusted to us. In conservationism, man is the caretaker of nature. Mankind it the solution, not the problem.

    Take for my farm for example. When I moved here in 2007 there was almost no wildlife what-so-ever because of the drought. There were almost no quail, dove, rabbits, or deer. Through massive habitat improvement over the last eight years, I have changed that. I have created year round water and food sources and shelter for smaller animals to escape predator. There are now healthy populations of rabbits, quail, dove and deer. The local wildlife is now far better off then when I got here. In fact my deer are some of the biggest bodied deer in the state with wieghts over 200 lbs (I'll post some picture below). I was the solution, not the problem. Nature could not do what need to be done by itself. It needed my intelligence and help. This is conservationism.

    Now, I am sure you are thinking. Wow! that is great! But, if you are environmentalist, then your are thinking that I did all this to help nature, and you would be wrong. You see, because I am a conservationist, and not an environmentalist, I believe nature exist for my use TOO. While I take care of and provide for the wild animals, I am not just doing it for them, but also for myself, because they also provide for me. I don't like to eat this hormone injected, genetically perverted meat you buy in the store. No, I only eat, "all natural, organic, free range non-GMO meat"; or in short, "WILD"!

    You see, this is the difference between a conservationist and an environmentalist. A true conservationist is totally fine with conservation efforts, as long as those effort are beneficial for them. But environmentalist don't care if it is beneficial for man.

    If environmentalist have their way, they would get rid of most of us (Especially me! LOL!)

    Okay, I am almost done. Let me sum it all up by saying this. I use LED light bulbs because they save me money. I only use rechargeable batteries because they save me money. I wear my seat belt because it is the smart thing to do. I put my grand kids in car seats when I have them because I love them and care fore them. I have no problem doing these things. What I have a problem with is everyone else pushing for laws to tell me to do those things. I believe that individual freedom trumps all! I believe that it is wrong for anyone else to try to make everyone else live by their standards. I do not believe that the Founders of the US ever intended for the government to micro-manage the individual lives of Americans through laws and regulations. In fact, I believe that they were quite staunchly against this idea and did everything in their power to confine the powers of the government to a very narrow and limited scope. I think all freedom loving patriotic Americans should get angry when their government treats them like they are property of the government that exist for the governments purposes, instead of the other way around. But that is just me.





  • The Jungle Explorer
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Okay. The above book will be released on Amazon.com in the coming months. LOL!

  • The Jungle Explorer
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Opps. Forgot the picture. Just in case you are wondering, I mange my local heard year round with cameras and carefully choose which deer I take from the herd. This buck was taken because he was at the end of his life and would not have survived till next breeding season. Deer only live seven years in the wild because their teeth wear off and they cannot properly chew their food and they starve to death. This buck was over 200lbs, which is larger then the majority of most wild deer in Texas (as opposed to deer raised on high fence ranches.) This is an indication of how healthy my local heard is as a result of proper conservation and management efforts.

  • The Jungle Explorer
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    itguy08 When you read a murder mystery book, there may be many elements of the book, but the book is about one thing. It is about who committed the murder. It does not matter if one charterer in the book was a car salesman. The book is not about car sales, just because one of the people in the book is car salesman. Sure I talked about several things in my post. I talked about my experience with TLs and FLs , but that does not mean that my post was about a FL vs TL argument. Just like in a murder mystery, what comes at the end is what the book is about. This is what I ended my post with.

    "My recommendation for those of you that agree with me is this. Go find a used appliance shop and buy you a good ol' Non-HE washer. You will will spend less then a quarter of what a cheap HE washer cost and it will get your clothes clean. For the rest of you enviro-nuts and white collar job people, enjoy washing your clothes in a cup of water and enzymes, but please stop trying to convince the rest of us that it is better. LOL!"

    Actually, I am not offended by you, because you are just another Trumpian American who just can't admit you were wrong. Your ignorance is shown in that you keep trying to convince me that you know more about what I was trying to say then I myself do. Keep it up. It is laughable!

  • dadoes
    8 years ago

    You've been all over TX for 25 years and never seen rice farming. That is to giggle. Seems you've missed some areas. Google to the rescue ...

    This thread is burned, overdone.

  • itguy08
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    I just have to LOL at this:

    Actually, I am not offended by you, because you are just another Trumpian American who just can't admit you were wrong. Your ignorance is shown in that you keep trying to convince me that you know more about what I was trying to say then I myself do. Keep it up. It is laughable!

    I think your rant about "Trumpians" you need to look in the mirror cause your rants are precisely "Trumpian".

    I read NOTHING into what you write other than the words on my screen. I have no problems admitting I am wrong. When I am actually wrong. The fact that I put in dirty clothes into my HE front loader and out comes clean clothes is proof enough that you are wrong. Dirty, stained dish towels, oily car rags, dirty outside clothes, you name it, it goes in dirty and comes out clean.

    Seems like your whole purpose here it to rail against "environmentalists" rather than a good discussion of washing products, techniques, and machines.

  • mamapinky0
    8 years ago

    Guy, I think the poster is ranting about the restrictions on washing machines and not so much which type of machine works best although he did make a general statement as to his opinion on tl vs fl...if you look back you will find other debates not just on fl vs tl but also on the imposed regulations. Every once in awhile there will be a debate on topics such as these, and we can join or stay out of it..this is my last post on this unless the tone should change, along with what the topic actually is about..TL vs FL or imposed gov't regulations, I realize the two may go hand in hand but most of this has turned out to be only about he said/ she said..not about any subject that's educational in the least.

  • Mandy Wilson
    7 years ago

    I agree with the guy who has a regular old washer ! I just got a TL HE and my clothes aren't even coming out clean at all . I wish we still had more options for regular washing machines. Growing up, my parents used those and my clothes were always clean . They didn't need to put vinegar or only be able to wash an outfit at a time. With a family of five an HE isn't practical and DOES NOT SAVE WATER.. If you have to rewasg everything two to three times!! that's my opinion but since everyone on here is offensive and hostile to people's opinions .. I'm sure I'll be bashed for that also

  • Mandy Wilson
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I only found this discussion hoping tofind better ways to clean my clothes in my stupid washer.. But everyone is too busy getting offended and blowing things out of proportion to give advice!

  • Alex Chicago
    7 years ago

    Mandy: I clicked on your name so that I could go to your post/comment history to see where you had asked for advice and not received it. In doing so I see that your only activity on the Houzz forum are these last two comments. Surely you didn't join up just to come in here just to say how awful we all are without even asking a question first, so please link us up to the details of your specific problems. No doubt you'll get some help.

    If in fact you haven't given those details, here's what would be helpful:

    • Washer Make
    • Washer Model
    • Washing temps
    • Detergent used
    • Exactly what you're finding unacceptable (leftover stains, odors, etc.)
    • General overview of your laundry practice

    Look forward to getting this information so the experts here can help you.

    Cheers for Monday.

  • mamapinky0
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Since you just got your HE TL washer, can you return it? Where did you buy it?

  • Mandy Wilson
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I saw how others on this forum were treated..and juged.

    Someone basically said they didn't like their HE washer and that it wasn't fair that they don't make regular washers anymore and his words were twisted and people outright judged and picked on him for having an opinion.

    I googled the best way to get my HE washer to clean and read through the posts . i never said I asked for advice. I said that's what bought me to this forum but I haven't seen anything helpful on this post just a bunch of people picking on people.

  • Mandy Wilson
    7 years ago

    I bought it at a little appliance store in town. It's a Whirlpool. I can't find any new non HE washers . My last washer was great. But this washer doesn't clean anything and I don't have time to use a washboard... It sort of defeats the purpose of having a washer. I've seen many people are having the same issue with both Front and Top loading HE washers. I just want to know if there's any tricks or best cycle to use.. Ive got three kids and a construction worker husband. Not only are the clothes dirty but they seem worse and for some reason they are getting really wrinkled. I never had these problems with the other washer

  • Alex Chicago
    7 years ago

    Sorry you're having trouble. Though getting a different machine may be your ultimate fix (Speed Queen still makes one like you remember), I'm sure people here can help make your laundry at least acceptable in the mean time. I have an HE machine but it's a front-load, not a top-load. There are a few here with HE TL machines that can speak more appropriately to how to load it, etc.

    Do you use warm and hot washes? If we cut back on water, we have to compensate in other areas. A good detergent, longer cycle times, and heat (warm to hot) can really help. I don't mean to assume that you aren't already doing this, but there are a lot of people who cold-wash only.

    And by the way, welcome :) You won't find anyone here who picks on you. I promise.

  • georgect
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    @Mandy...

    I don't know of any tricks with HE top loaders (personally I don't know how they can clean).

    But...you may (if you can still return your HE top loader), get a Speed Queen top loader.

    It a traditional top loader that uses lots of water (only the "Eco" cycle uses less water).

    Life's too short to put up with a washer you're just not happy with.

  • Alex Chicago
    7 years ago

    George is right. If you can only exchange it (not return), maybe try an HE FL machine. I won't argue which is better, but I will say that this forum in particular has many HE FL users that can at least help you. There's hardly a model available that someone here hasn't owned. It's a bit sick :)

  • littlegreeny
    7 years ago

    I have a HE TL and find it cleans best by using either the normal or heavy duty cycle, hot water, and fabric softener setting on (this will give you a deep rinse).


    What laundry detergent are you using? You are going to get the best performance from your machine by using a top of the line detergent with multiple enzymes like Tide, Persil or Wisk. I also suggest reading your owner's manual as it might be something as easy as the way you're loading the machine. My washer cleans best if it's not overloaded and if I load the clothes around the perimeter of the tub just like you would in a traditional top loader.


    As Alex mentioned we can help if you provide more details about your specific situation.

  • sashanikki
    7 years ago

    WHen I was thinking about buying a washer (on a great sale) yesterday, I ended up talking to the head repairman there. He said one of the biggest problems with the HE machines is that people use too much detergent. When too much detergent ins used, it makes the clothes dirtier and the whites dingy.

  • aa62579
    7 years ago

    I have had no problems with my HE TL washer. (Maytag). I do tend to use Deep Water Wash, Power Wash, or the Bedding as cycle choices and I almost always select Extra Rinse.

    With heavily soiled clothing, like my husband's work clothes, I was using the Soak cycle first, then following up with a Rinse and Spin cycle, then going to the Power Wash cycle. (Or having him soak them in the tub first, but wet clothes are heavy.)

    We now have a vintage washing machine out on the back porch and I make him use it first instead of the soak in my machine. The water turns black sometimes - I'd rather keep that out of my machine.

    I never get that dirty, so never any problems with my clothes except for when I was using powder detergent. It gets lots of love on this forum, but I had dismal results from it - not just deposits left on clothes, but still being able to detect a body odor on washed underwear. Switched back to liquid (Gain or HEB version of TIDE) and I've had no problems since.

    Only problems I have had would be with pet vomit accidents and bedding. Sometimes it seems like they get folded up and a stain will remain in that area. So, sometimes I have to wash twice.

    With clothes, I do try to 'plop' them around in a circle, leaving the middle section open. I can't do this with blankets which may explain the better performance on clothes versus bedding.

  • Terry Alcorn
    7 years ago

    My neice has a washer like that. Not one single load came clean like my "normal" washer does. I even rewashed 2 and 3 times. I would never own one myself. Im sure thats the reason I see the same kind as hers for sale on fb!

  • laurieks1959
    7 years ago

    I posted earlier. I got a Maytag HE TL in November. I got rid of it immediately because it wouldn't allow me to even have enough water to cover my clothes. It was terrible! I ended up getting a GE HE TL. It does have a button I can push to have a load with extra water. I like it pretty good, but sometimes it will put too much water in the machine. I feel like it's either feast or famine. Why can't I have a washer than I can set my load small, medium, or large? I find myself sometimes just pouring a few extra buckets of water in the machine to get the amount of water I actually want. (Luckily I have a tub in my laundry room and I'm able to do that) if I can get the appropriate amount of water in the machine my clothes do come out clean. Without pushing my button the machine absolutely does not give me enough water to get my clothes clean! I have learned to like not having an agitator because it gives me a lot more room in the machine to be able to wash bedspreads and blankets however. I wish for you Mandy that you could take your machine back.... But I know chances are you already have had it too long. I totally understand your frustration!!

    Jungle I agree with you. I don't know how a conversation about HE machines got all twisted and taken personally, but I totally agree the HE TLoaders are frustrating because they do not clean like the good old TL's of years ago!!

  • mamapinky0
    7 years ago

    I've never had a HE TL but I don't think they are supposed to be like an old skool TL.

    Laurie..how's the turn over with blankets and such in your machine?

  • Laundry Mich
    7 years ago

    I must have missed the drama in this one...


    For what it's worth.. I can't say I've really heard of anyone that impressed by these HE TL machines. I do, truly remember hearing good things about the Maytag Bravo Line from like 2006?... but never anything more.


    Personally love both Top Loaders & Front Loaders. Feel as though Top Loaders rinse much better, and leave clothes smelling more like detergent.. and will do a very fine job for most laundry tasks. Front Loaders on the other hand.. are more designed for Quiet Operation, and Benefit from Lower Water Levels - Making for More Concentrated Cleaning.


    Truly like both... and honestly wish I had access to a Top Loader all the time. Scented Laundry has always been a fantasy of mine... ;)

  • pvkshouse
    7 years ago

    Smitten with Laurieks1959 comments!

    Even the option for an 'extra rinse' cycle would be so beneficial (and that includes the [bloody] dishwashers—after which I think the HE clothes washers are patterned)!! Sorry, but I remember hand washing dishes—and woolens...and there was never 'film' on our glasses—and our sweaters/intimates (once they dried on a rack, of course) smelled so fresh. Why has this kind of thorough cleaning become so impossible with 'machines' that are supposed to make our lives easier?

  • mamapinky0
    7 years ago

    Mich I found the opposite to be true for me. I never had a detergent scent with a TL but do now with a FL.. often.



  • pvkshouse
    7 years ago

    For the record, I loved the early FLs. It's the HE FLs that are (for me) painfully inadequate. And that their emergence has "created" the need for a slew of new additive products designed to help laundry (or the machine itself!) smell better should tell you something.

  • laurieks1959
    7 years ago

    To mamapinkyO you asked about blankets in my machine. If I push my extra water button and get my machine plenty full a blanket or bedspread will get pretty clean. The drum agitates enough to do the job. I can't say there is really much flipping action going on in there, Lol.... But it swishes around enough to come out pretty good.

  • enduring
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Funny this thread is in the queue. Did any one else notice that over the last day? The last post date was in August, but it was second or third on the list!?

    My thought on the previous post is that "pretty good" really isn't good enough.

  • Alex Chicago
    7 years ago

    Yesterday I received a notification in my inbox that someone had commented on this thread. The preview of that post was rather snarky, etc. so I believe it was deleted by either its author or someone on Houzz. Thank goodness. This thread and the vinegar one both need to be locked out.

  • mamapinky0
    7 years ago

    Enduring I noticed it also and wondered what was going on.

    Alex people are misinformed about vinegar..no wonder with all the mommy sites telling them vinegar does things it doesn't..I personally don't see a problem with the vinegar thread other than people don't want to even consider what vinegar actually does do in laundry. ..lol..which can be a great deal but they are stuck on two things...it either removes residue or it softens clothes. ..it does neither.

  • Gordon Agnew
    6 years ago

    HE washing machines do not work and do not last. Get a Speed Queen!!!

    The Jungle Explorer thanked Gordon Agnew
  • Gordon Agnew
    6 years ago

    A class action lawsuit would be in order for all HE machines. You cannot get a load of laundry clean with a quart of water.

    The Jungle Explorer thanked Gordon Agnew