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Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

Posted by JenniferHyatt (My Page) on
Mon, Oct 24, 11 at 22:26

Oh, please won't someone help me? I have needed a dryer for a month now and I am frozen into inaction. I have tried researching everything I can about dryers and I never seem to find one that someone doesn't hate. As soon as I am sure I have decided which one to go with, I read horror stories and start the search all over. At first I thought I had to have steam and now I think I am being a chump about it. I already have a washing machine that still works and I could care less if the two machines look alike.

Here is what I need:

I need a gas dryer that has a lot of settings. I need one that is very hot when I need it to be for towels, but one that I can put on a much lower setting for delicates. I don't need the dryer to try to figure out what I want it to do, I am happy to be an active participant in doing the laundry. But, I do need plenty of options. I also don't need the machine to remember my preferences, for now my memory still works.

I was looking into steam, but it seems like a frightful waste of money. I can continue putting in a damp washcloth like I have been doing for 40 years. Unless someone tells me that a steam dryer is a miracle. I don't expect to use that feature very often and I can't stand the thought that some dryers rust due to the steam. I have no children and I don't work anymore...so no fancy work clothes. I wash clothes for only my husband and I.

Call me old fashioned, but I want a dryer that is dependable. I know that a lot of government regulations have made washing machines close to useless these days, are they doing the same thing to dryers? I could care less if it is "energy efficient". My time is worth a lot to me, and I want a dryer that doesn't take over an hour to do a load of towels. I hate laundry and usually do it all once every 3 weeks or so. That process can take me 4 hours or 8 depending on the machine. I need a dryer that will keep up with my washing machine as best it can.

So, in short, I want a dryer that is fast, reliable, and has plenty of settings so I don't shrink everything that touches it, but isn't so dainty it takes forever to dry the tough stuff. Is it possible to get a machine that does all three or do I have to pick two of the above?

Please help me. My poor head is so confused right now.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

Dryers aren't as easy a machine as they used to be i.e. digital controls.
Not many dryers use mechanical dial controls much any more (most trouble free).


You might do well with a large capacity dryer by Electrolux (8.0 cu.ft.) since you wait a few weeks between washing/drying.

Whirlpool or Maytag (Maytag is now owned my Whirlpool) put out pretty reliable dryers. I would go with the largest capacity you can afford.


I wouldn't go with the steam feature either, I don't see the point.

Personally I like the Electrolux with it's versatility but most modern dryers should be pretty versatile.


Keep your vent runs short (of course venting to the outside), and clean to keep drying times short as possible.

Dry times are affected by how much water your washer spins out so an "HE" (High Efficiency) front load or top load washer will turn out shorter dryer times by spinning faster extracting more water.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

Georgect...thank you so much for replying.

Is there a lot of difference between a 7.0 and an 8.0? I ask because it seems to cost double to go up to the 8.0. I found what looks like an ok Whirlpool: WGD4800XQ. It is the smaller size, but I can probably find one for somewhere between $375 and $550 depending on how well I can negotiate. But, to go up to the 8.0 Electrolux, I have to spend at least $750 on up to $1700. The only Electroluxes I found that have a decent rating are $1300 and up.

My washing machine is a Whirlpool Gold model gsq9669lw10. Not sure of the capacity. I was using the matching dryer LEB6400LW which worked fine but it is electric and we can only have gas here. (Not enough room on the electrical panel to add what I need without a lot of expense.) I bought the set in 2003 and haven't had any problems so far. Knock on wood. Although, urrently after using the washer clothes seems to come out with extra lint on them and sadly I don't see a way to clean out any kind of lint trap. Something must be a little clogged somewhere. Other than that I like the washing machine. I thought I might need to get it professionally cleaned out if such a thing is possible. If not, I may end up getting a washing machine in a year or two. Then I will go through all this all over again.

I just really don't want to spend $1500 for a dryer. (including tax and delivery).

I read somewhere on this forum that if you don't mind not having a matching set, don't buy the expensive dryers that go with the fancy washing machines because while the washer might be a LOT better, the dryer won't be that much better than a lower priced model. To get to the 8.0 models I could only find that large a size on the most expensive dryers that do match the most expensive washers.

For a while I was considering the Speed Queen dryers but then I read bad things about them too. :( (could be from people who paid more for a Speed Queen and expected too much..I don't know). Plus, they don't have many options of drying cycles and I heard they run hot. Might be hard for me to find a cool enough setting not to ruin my clothes. I really like the sensors that tell when the clothes are dry too. I like to pick the temp, but have the dryer stop drying when the stuff is dry. Not sure they have those on Speed Queens.

Then again, do I need all those cycles? I really only need three settings for cotton stuff, permanent press, and delicates. But then, if the manufacturer doesn't have the same idea I do about those things, I might need more settings to find the right temps I like. So, maybe I do need all those settings. I live in Las Vegas and it is very dry and hot here. Dryers might run extra hot here? I do vent to the outside and we just bought this house and had the vents checked out...perfectly clear for now.

See now why I can't make up my mind. (Sorry to drag you into my inner nuttiness. Hopefully, I am not the only person to worry about picking the wrong dryer.) I also know the big sales are coming so I might just put up a clothesline for a few weeks until Black Friday or thereabouts.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

I see your dilemma because the more larger the dryer drum the more "high end" you are going (along with the price tag) but that's the trade off.


You are going to pay more for a large drum or more temperature options, sensors etc. no matter what.


7 cu.ft. vs. 8 cu.ft. will just let more clothes tumble freely with larger loads you tend to have. King/Queen comforters will dry more evenly if thy can tumble freely.
A 7.3 vs 7.8 isn't that much different but always opt for the large capacity.

(by the way the washer you have doesn't have a removable lint filter/trap).

If you don't wan to pay the premium price tag then the dryer you looked at (Whirlpool: WGD4800XQ) should be just fine.

Go to a store that carries a large variety so you can get a look and feel for the options you want and the price ranges before making any deals. That way you can narrow it down to 3 or 4 dryers and then go for the best price/options combination.

I really would stay away from foreign brands like LG, Samsung and even GE which is now made by LG.

Whirlpool/Maytag dryers are still well made, tried and true design that will last the test of time.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

"I really would stay away from foreign brands like LG, Samsung and even GE which is now made by LG" ...

Why do you make this statement? What is your basis for it?

LG is the #1 selling brand of front load washer in the US and was voted most reliable by Consumer Reports.

I know you're talking dryers so most of CRs top electric dryers are made by LG, Samsung and Kenmore (which is made by either LG or Samsung).

FWIW I own Mieles so have no personal interest in anyone choosing a Korean brand. I just hate when people make those statements without actual "fact" basis.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

I just hear people complaining here (and other forums) way too much about LG and Samsung and other brands...that's why I would NEVER buy one, even if Consumer Reports said they were excellent.
I've seen the same exact LG front load machine in Consumer Reports go from "Excellent" in one review to "Good" in another.

I've bought other goods because Consumer Reports rated it highly and got burned so now I do more research than just the information that CR publishes.

Miele's are in a class by themselves and even the Americanized versions aren't as great as the German made models. This is from reading here and in other forums also.
Just because something is the number one selling (of anything) doesn't really mean anything except that the advertising is working.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

Keep in mind, if LG is the #1 selling brand there are WAY more units around. If you factor a 5% failure rate for any brand than there would be more LGs to complain about.

For the few "gripes" you read about on this (or any other) forum - there are tons of people very happy with their LGs/Samsungs.

I know several people who have them and love them. They've had them for several years with no issues.

Advertising does work but people wouldn't keep buying it if it was crap.

ALL Miele machines are built in Germany (even the W4XXX series). Again, you're making that statement based on the comments of some forum participants. Please ... anyone can write a comment on here - certainly doesn't make them an expert and I think all comments should be taken with a grain of salt.

Those that complain about the W4XXX machines seem to do so because they lack the "boil" like temps of the smaller units. Only an issue if you like to boil your laundry (which I would not do). My 87 year old German step grandmother would boil laundry because that's what she knew from way back when. It's not necessary today.

These few complainers want total control over every setting on their machines (like the European machines have). They refer to the W4XXX as "dumbed down". I disagree.

My point to the OP is to take these off hand comments with a grain of salt. Who are these people giving you this advice and where exactly do they get their knowledge. Do your own due diligence. There are many positive reviews out there - don't let a few negatives dissuade you until you've done your homework.

In the end, it's a leap of faith anyway. Whether you're buying expensive Mieles or something else. Until you actually own it, you won't really know.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

livebetter I have to agree with you, this is just my opinion that I've formed from reading information around the internet and talking with friends.

Everyone should make there own decision from doing their own homework...(I think that's what the OP is doing).

The perfect machine has not been invented yet so any dryer will do the job, it's just been my experience that a Whirlpool dryer should be pretty durable (that can change at any minute).

Off topic - I just don't hear people happy with LG's customer service when they need it (again that could change at any minute).
I was one that seriously was considering an LG when LG hit the scene...now I wont even consider them (that's just me).


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

LG may be the current "best-selling" brand per that magazine, but they haven't been on the market nearly as long as others such as Whirlpool/Kenmore, GE, and Frigidaire. I'd venture to guess there is a magnitude more machines of those brands sold and in use over the last 50 years than are LG machines.

I have no experience with LG major appliances, but what I hear frequently is that many servicers won't touch LG because the support infrastructure is lacking.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

JenniferHyatt, The technology behind clothes dryers is fairly mature; since the introduction of the moisture sensor (which you can get in certain models of any brand these days) decades back, there has been very little innovation in clothes dryers.

Allow me to throw out for your consideration one more factor. The door of a dryer can be hinged on the side, or it can be hinged at the bottom. When you pull your wet clothes out of the washer to transfer them to the dryer, occasionally one or two pieces of clothing get untangled from the rest and fall to the floor, right? (It happens with our laundry with fair frequency, and I assume that we are not unique.) If you have a dryer with a bottom-hinged door, and the door is open, that rascally rogue piece of wet laundry will fall onto the dryer door instead of to the floor; it is likely that the inside of your dryer door is cleaner than your laundry room floor; it is also a shorter stoop to pick it up from the dryer door.

Fortunately, there is an inexpensive model of dryer from Whirlpool that has a moisture sensor and a bottom hinged door. It has been in the line since The Mind of Man Runneth not to the Contrary, about four decades, and Sears sells it with a Kenmore label, also. It is well-tested, and parts are readily available, as millions have been sold. Its styling almost certainly will not match your washing machine, but if function trumps form, you cannot go wrong with the "hamper door" Whirlpool/Kenmore.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

herring_maven...I do have to agree with you also.

I currently have a Whirlpool with the "hamper door" and love that feature.
I will miss it when I replace it eventually with a dryer with a window (I believe they only open left or right).


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

From what everyone has said, I am currently thinking about getting something in the middle...something like the Whirlpool Cabrio. It is 7.6 and the price reflects the middle of the road....not $500 but not $1000 either. If anyone has the Cabrio I would love to know your opinion of the gas dryer.

HerringMaven, thanks for the additional input. I have had both kinds of dryers in the past year...hamper door and side door. For me, I prefer the side door. I find it kind of hard to reach around the door and get stuff out of the dryer with a hamper door. Frankly, I am good at dropping socks on the floor no matter where the door is. But, with a side door, I can get in front of the dryer, look inside, get all the items and usually have the clothes basket under the opening to get the stuff out and catch (most of) the falling socks. (Except of course that one sock that always gets sacrificed to the dryer monster).

I saw some advertisements that said the hamper door can be used to fold clothes so that is a benefit. That doesn't work for me. I need to have my laundry on a large surface so I can smooth it out with my hands to prevent wrinkles. I spent 2 years without an iron and really learned how to hand press my clothes as soon as they are dry. Also, I always thought I would break the hinges or weaken the tightness of the door if I put things on the open door. But, that is just me and we all have different needs.

Does anyone here know what makes a dryer "energy efficient"? I know washers use different temperature water and differing amounts of water, but a dryer? And does that energy efficiency come at the expense of time efficiency? In other words, does it take longer to dry clothes in an energy efficient dryer than a non efficient dryer?

Funny thing about the Miele dryers, when I looked them up, people loved their electric dryers but I saw a lot of problem with the gas versions. For that reason I am not paying any attention to the Consumer Reports article since they only reviewed electric dryers. Good thing too, because I can't afford the Miele. :)


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

JenniferHyatt, from all my reasearch, there is really no such thing as an "HE" or energy efficient dryer.

Some may move more air through the drum (but may run longer as they tend to run at slightly lower temps).

That is why there is no Energy Star ratings on dryers.

This is from the Energy Star web site:

"What about Clothes Dryers?ENERGY STAR does not label clothes dryers because most dryers use similar amounts of energy, which means there is little difference in the energy use between models.

The Department of Energy's Appliance Standards program conducted a detailed study which found that the clothes dryers on the U.S. market do not vary significantly from each other in terms of energy consumption. This is also the reason why the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) does not require clothes dryers to have a yellow EnergyGuide label.

Over the next few years, DOE Appliance Standards program will be revisiting this study as it determines whether to revise the current federal energy conservation standards for dryers. We will keep a close eye on this process to see if changes in technology and market conditions have made an ENERGY STAR clothes dryers program more feasible.

To reduce the amount of energy your clothes dryer uses:
Use the moisture sensor option on your dryer, which automatically shuts off the machine when the clothes are dry.
If your clothes washer has spin options, choose a high spin speed or extended spin option to reduce the amount of remaining moisture, thus starting the drying process before you put your clothes in the dryer.
Air dry clothes whenever possible."


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

Thank you georgect. Much appreciated.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

Jennifer, I see 7.5 cu ft Whirlpool and Kenmore (made by Whirlpool) dryers advertised on sale at Sears stores (both mall and smaller appliance stores) at great prices, every week.

I'm positive I saw at least one in this week's flyer which had a hamper door, and IIRC it cost less than (definitely, no more than) $500. To me that's a good deal. :)


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

Well my wife and I are about to hit up Sears to touch feel slam and bang some dryers right now.
I searched online last night for hours looking at review after review.
There were 54 reviews of the LG dryer we are most interested in, 50 of those 54 were 5 star reviews without even ONE single small gripe among 50 people. I mean NOTHING.

2 were 1 star of which they simply got a bad dryer as both were messed up between days 1-3.
2 were 4 star, one of those was a person that also got a bad dryer "all they said is it made noise" but they contacted LG and they replaced it no questions asked with a brand new one which works perfectly so they gave it 4 stars.

Somehow that doesn't sound bad to me.

The other one we are interested in is a Maytag/Whirlpool I found 43 reviews of and 5 of them were 1 star, about 10 were 4 star and the rest 5 star.

consumer reports rates the LG brand of dryers the BEST as far as repair history.

The LG we are going to look at in about an hour is the LG model DLE5001W suggested retail is $900.
with various sales, 10% off internet, 5% off using the Sears card, already a discount of $90 to start plus using our Sears reward points ($24) we can get the dryer down to $668.00.

I thing I am jazzed about the LG is the fact that it does NOT have some insanely loud Buzzer like on the one that just died on us after 17 years, I hated that buzzer for so long.
The LG plays some cute little tune.

One thing I have noticed is that most people that complain about electronics coming from China, Korea, etc do so solely out of the old "American Pride" nonsense and nothing else.

We own a NXR stove that is "assembled" in China with some the best stove parts you can buy from all over the world.
Only cost us $1800 and it is outstanding.
But I hear people say all the time "made in China enough said" and they don't have the unit, know nothing at all about it, but just see the words "Made in china" and that is all they look at.

We have an LG Microwave, excellent microwave, best we have ever owned. Yet I hear the same nonsense.

We have a Samsung TV, fantastic TV.

We own a "Kenmore Elite" refrigerator that was "Made by Samsung" great Fridge, not a problem with it, quiet as a mouse fart works perfect, well made.

In fact if you don't buy made in China, Korea, etc today then you are going to be sitting in an empty house pretty soon because damn near everything is made there now as thanks to Republican policies and deregulation's American Workers simply can not compete and we are turning into just a "Service" orientated country, we hardly manufacture anything any more.

Nothing wrong with LG or Samsung in fact they are some of the best electronics out there today, may as well get used to it.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

Nunyabiz1 writes: "consumer reports rates the LG brand of dryers the BEST as far as repair history."

It may seem a subtle distinction, but CU (publisher of Consumer Reports) does not "rate" repair history. CU collects statistics based on responses to surveys, and reports the statistics. CU's Ratings are based on testing; the repair history is an unscientific sampling (sometmes, however, based on a very large sample) of opinions from a self-selected group. CU does not even check or confirm that a person who submits a survey response actually owns the appliance in question, and has no controls to prevent individual responders from submitting several responses.

Now, in CU's compilation of statistics on brands that have changed ownership (such as Maytag) there is the significant problem that many of the responses to the survey may refer to appliances made by an entirely different manufacturer than the current manufacturer of that brand. The repair history of a Maytag dryer made in Iowa in years past may or may not (more probably the latter) have relevance to a Maytag-branded Whirlpool dryer made in Michigan.

Both Samsung and LG, relative newcomers to the field, make some excellent models of appliances, to be sure. But an appliance purchase is the beginning of what the purchaser usually hopes to be a long-term relationship, and so customer service also needs to be taken into account.

The $668,00 net price that you have tracked down for an LG DLE5001W dryer is not a bad price, but it is at least one hundred dollars higher than some functionally very similar other models of dryer. What will your added outlay be buying you?


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

OK, so we ended up buying BOTH the LG Washer and Dryer since my wife was sick and tired of not have both washer and dryer new and the same.
Might be a mistake but you never know, our Washer was a Maytag Neptune that we have had for over 7 years or so and not a problem with it. Was a great washer.
Buying any new appliance regardless whom makes it is a crap shoot so time will tell, but I always hate giving up something that works perfectly for an unknown.

We opted for the top loader HE washer because there are nothing but problems abound with front loaders in general.

We got the LG WT5101H Graphite color the retail price on these is usually $1100 EACH, we ended up after the already 10% off to start, plus the extra 5% off for using the Sears card, plus the $24 off from our Sear Rewards thing, plus an extra 10% off from the Sears service center because they didn't have the color we wanted and they said it came in that color, they gave us the upgraded model for an extra 10% off. So after everything was said an done we got them for $749.00 each so not a bad deal at all.

Also did further research on this exact model just now and I honestly have a hard time even finding a bad review of these LG washers and dryers.
I just finished reading 75 reviews of this washer just on AJ Madisons site alone and out of 75 reviews I believe it was something like 69 5 stars, just from there.

All in all I would say that the washer and dryer both rate on average a 4.8 to 4.9 out of all reviews from all sites combined and that is more than 200 reviews I have read now on these 2 machines and honestly even the VERY few that gave a bad review it really seemed more like an idiot operator than it did the machine.
So I feel pretty secure in the purchase as it is certainly the best reviewed washer and dryer set I have ever seen.

The hands on slam and bang, touchy feely at the store, was positive, they looked great, seemed well made, nice solid stainless hinges, seems very solid.

So only time will tell if they are really good or not and I will come back to report on that.

But any one that claims LG washers and dryers get bad reviews have not bothered to read any that's for sure.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

I fell for that: "I better get the steam or I'll be left behind" and it is truly a joke...it does nothing. Even if it does make a slight difference it is not enough to skip ironing. Also my clothes are horribly set in wrinkled from the high spin from the washer that spins so hard it nearly shreds the clothes to pieces. I don't feel my clothes are clean anymore and laundry has become a high tech experiment taking a lot longer than before. Sometimes it is not possible to build a better box...how I wish I had my old pair back. Did I say how LOUD my dryer is? ie: Maytag Bravos with matching dryer.


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RE LG and Samsung

"Both Samsung and LG, relative newcomers to the field, make some excellent models of appliances, to be sure. But an appliance purchase is the beginning of what the purchaser usually hopes to be a long-term relationship, and so customer service also needs to be taken into account.

The $668,00 net price that you have tracked down for an LG DLE5001W dryer is not a bad price, but it is at least one hundred dollars higher than some functionally very similar other models of dryer. What will your added outlay be buying you?"
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Actually LG has been around since 1947, it just used to be called "Goldstar" is all.
Samsung was founded in 1938 although it didn't become Samsung electronics until the 1960s.

but both companies have been around a long time.

Everything I have read about LG states they have a very good costumer service, until now the only thing I have purchased that was LG was our Microwave, have not had any problems with it BUT I have received about 4 emails from LG in the past 8 months asking about it, if we are satisfied etc.
Never had any other appliance company bother to do that.
But that doesn't mean they would do a damn thing if the product broke but I get the impression they would.

I noticed 2 of the 200 or so reviews that I read that did have a problem with their dryer and they stated that LG replaced the defective unit promptly with no questions asked.
So far I have nothing that I can fault them on.

We own a Samsung TV and Fridge both are excellent.
Don;t really know much good or bad about their costumer service though.

As for the price I haven't seen any $500 dryers that compared at all to the LG.
But we in fact actually got the upgraded ones the " LG WT5101H" model instead which we ended up paying $749 each for.
Again though haven't seen any other brands or models any better for that price plus the LG was so highly reviewed & rated that it seems like a no brainer even if its a $100 more.
A $100 spread over what should be at least 15+ years is nothing, especially if it indeed last 15+ years without any problems.


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RE: Reviews

"fell for that: "I better get the steam or I'll be left behind" and it is truly a joke...it does nothing. Even if it does make a slight difference it is not enough to skip ironing. Also my clothes are horribly set in wrinkled from the high spin from the washer that spins so hard it nearly shreds the clothes to pieces. I don't feel my clothes are clean anymore and laundry has become a high tech experiment taking a lot longer than before. Sometimes it is not possible to build a better box...how I wish I had my old pair back. Did I say how LOUD my dryer is? ie: Maytag Bravos with matching dryer.
"

Actually we didn't "fall for" anything, neither one of us wanted nor cared at ALL about the steam function, in fact I purposely did NOT want it as I see as something we will never use and just another possible problem.

We got that model solely because it is virtually identical to the model we really wanted and they discounted it down further to the point to where it was almost the same price just so my wife could get that color "Graphite" that she wanted.
But both of these LGs rate very highly and both are said to be so quite you could hear a mouse fart.

Check out the reviews yourself, basically go anywhere all the reviews are outstanding.
Aj Madison has about 75 of them.

Here is a link that might be useful: LG WT5101H Aj Madison


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

Nunyabiz1: "Actually LG has been around since 1947, it just used to be called 'Goldstar' is all.
Samsung was founded in 1938 although it didn't become Samsung electronics until the 1960s."

LG was Lucky -- L -- Goldstar -- G; hence, LG.

But neither LG nor Samsung made major appliances for export until the 21st century. Sharp Electronics of Japan, which makes superb electronics, including television sets, was named "Sharp" because it was a pioneer in the mechanical pencil business. But, when discussing electronics, it is misleading to say that Sharp has been in the electronics business since the 1920s, when its only business for its first couple of decades was the manufacture of mechanical pencils.

It is equally misleading to impute the long Lucky Goldstar business history to the recent major appliance business of LG, which is a newcomer to the United States major appliance market segment.

But this discussion is tangential to the point that Consumer Reports's frequency of repair statistical compilations apply only to very recent LG and Samsung models; but the CU statistics do include survey results of some very old Amana, Maytag, Whirlpool, Admiral, Roper, Magic Chef, etc., models that were made by now defunct companies, and models bearing those brands now are made by a different manufacturer than the models that the statistics refer to. So direct comparisons between the two sets of statistics are of very highly questionable validity.

Nunyabiz1: "We opted for the top loader HE washer because there are nothing but problems abound with front loaders in general."

Our family, and my mother before us, have three-quarters of a century of experience with front-loading automatic washing machines that is directly contrary to the urban legend that you are attempting to perpetuate. The urban legend is unverifiable for the simple reason that it is false. Front loaders, historically, over a much larger statistical sample, have had a small fraction of the problems of the top-loaders (which first came on the scene about a dozen years after front-loading washers were well-established in the market). You may (or may not) believe that the world is flat, that Barack Obama was not born in the United States, and that "there are nothing but problems with front loaders," but all three propositions are equally false.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

Herring_mavin.. that's not exactly correct, while LG didn't make washers until 2001. Gold star has been making them since 1969, 8 years before they made their first color TV. Link below shows major events in goldstars history.

Here is a link that might be useful: History of Goldstar


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

Kappen, did you overlook the two words "for export" in my post? I had written, "But neither LG nor Samsung made major appliances for export until the 21st century." (Also, the Korean domestic washing machines of 1969 were a far cry from what we in North America would call a "major appliance"; they were closer to the size of a kitchen trash compacter than to the size of the washing machines we have seen in North America after WWII.)


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

Here's the thing about "made in China". If you give them $5 to make an item, they'll make you a $5 item. If you give them $1 to make it, they'll make you a $1 item. Make sense??

Everybody wants the "cheapest" price. Consumers have no one to blame but themselves for cheap quality. Stop being so cheap and things might be different.

If more people were willing to pay more for quality, the market would follow. Unfortunately, people have the "WalMart" mentality. Where can I get the best deal and get it for the cheapest price.

Nunyabiz1: "We opted for the top loader HE washer because there are nothing but problems abound with front loaders in general."

Everytime I read this I laugh. I also think the person writing it has NO clue. I've been using FL washers for over 10 years with not one issue. Don't get me going ...

I'm sure your LG toploader will be good but I believe it won't be as good as a front loader.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

Livebetter- You would rather they beat their laundry on rocks by the river until they can afford a miele? :-)

Sometimes its not being cheap its what they can afford and i'm a firm believer that if a product says it can do a job it should do that job no matter the cost. Forums like these are to seperate those that can do the job from those that can't. I also remember a time long ago when US FLs had seal problems. That is no longer an issue but sometimes history is hard to overcome.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

@Kappen, my comment did not apply strictly to this category. They are "big picture" philosophies. Why do you think WalMart is the giant it is? I've worked with WalMart in a past life and their MAIN concern is always the bottom dollar - cheap as possible at all costs.

It is a fact that our "grandparents" spent a higher percentage of their income on items (like food, appliances, etc). We spend much less (of a percentage).

As a collective society, we want everything cheaper and cheaper so manufacturers keep trying to find ways to make it cheaper. You get the picture.

We are a disposable society. We want the latest and greatest of everything (ie. laptops, ipods, tablets, what have you).

I think people should buy what they can afford but price shouldn't be the driving factor for everyone and yet somehow it most often is. I mean, some people could afford to buy the most expensive but they're not wired that way and they'll try and get the "deal" (I'm related to a few ... lol). They can afford it but they'd feel ripped off if they paid it.

Manufacturers only make what people want to buy. It's simple logic and marketing.

But the reality is, people won't change collectively so it is what it is.

Personally, I didn't want to shell out what I did for my Mieles when I could buy top of the line (LG, Samsung, etc) for less. But I chose to bite the bullet. Only time will tell if it was a good decision (I sure hope so). But I wanted to spend my dollars with a company that wasn't trying to do it cheaper but still built it better with top notch materials.

I was in it for the long haul - not prepared to except my washer/dryer's death in 5 years and buy a new one.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

Kappen: " I also remember a time long ago when US FLs had seal problems."

I have a good memory, also.

My mother's 1936 Bendix, an American front-loader, did not have seal problems.


(photo is of a machine similar to ours, which long since went to the great steel reycler in the sky)

Our 1974 Westinghouse Electric washing machine, a front-loader made in Mansfield, Ohio, which replaced the Bendix in our household, did not have seal problems.

Our 1995 Frigidaire Gallery (an American trademark), made in America by a Swedish company, which replaced the Westinghouse in our household, did not have seal problems.

(We replaced the Frigidaire earlier this year -- it was still functioning perfectly -- when the main bearing started to sound more like a coffee grinder than like a washing machine; but the seals were still good.)


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

.

Both LG and Samsung have been making appliances for lets just say a number of years, couldn't really careless how long actually as it really makes no difference what so ever.
The CU reports are directly from readers that respond and gives a fairly decent idea of repair/problem history and both LG and Samsung which BTW are two of the biggest sellers and have been for many years now have a very large pile of costumers to draw from.
So for what ever it is worth LG washers and dryers are rated as the BEST with less repairs and problems.
Also the testing only goes back no further than 2006 so regardless how long LG has made washers and dryers is completely moot. the end

As far as top loaders Vs front loaders, you must be a dream land. I see NOTHING but complaints about front loaders and have been for over 10 years now.
Mostly mold issues, top loaders are inherently less problematic for apparently most everyone but you two.

If you have never had problems with any of your front loaders that is fantastic, if you prefer the front loader even more fantastic.
I prefer the top loader for numerous reasons.

try adding a piece of clothing you forgot in the front loader after you start it up.

The bellows gasket around the door on front loaders trap lint and dirt and moisture and cause mold and mildew, PERIOD
Now unless this problem which 1000s of people have had for a long time has very recently been addressed then front loaders usually have this problem.
Also front loaders have bearing failure problems far sooner and more prevalent than top loaders.

The particular top loader we got offers all the good qualities of a front loader (high spin rate for water extraction, less water used,) but without the inherent problems that most everyone else seems to have with front loaders.

In fact in just checked CR article from august this year.

this is what they said.
=====================
"Among laundry appliances, front-loading washers are more repair-prone than top-loaders. The large rubber gasket that forms a watertight seal around the door is a common culprit. Carefully loading and unloading clothes will minimize wear and tear to the gasket. Mold is another issue. Manufacturers recommend that you periodically clean the gasket with a bleach solution and keep the door ajar after each use to allow ventilation. We'd like to see more mold-eliminating innovations. LG, for example, has developed a special magnet that props the washer door slightly open. LG washers had been more vulnerable to mold in the past, but they now have the lowest repair rate among models of front-loaders."
====================

LG it appears is at least trying to remedy the problem and is the top rated front loader with the lowest repair rate.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

@livebetter & herring_mavin,

Well my memory isn't that great I remember 3 washers growing up the first was a Grants toploading. Grants was an old department store that is long since gone. A maytag top loading and I want to say a westinghouse front loading. As a kid of course the westinghouse front loading was the coolest because it had the window. I also remember my mom having to put a towel on the floor under it to catch the water that leaked down from the door. After that my mother never did get another front loader and to this day only has had top loaders. When I moved out I of course bought a top loader too and since I was pretty broke from having bought new furniture I purchased a set whose name at the time I had never heard of for 700 dollars, the name Estate I later found out was a whirlpool company. At the time I was hoping they would last 3-4 years at which time I would get something better. 20 years later I am just now replacing the washer because it leaks from the bottom if I run a pure "Hot" Cycle and I recently moved to a house with a septic tank and I assume (since I can't find any data on it) that a 20 year old top loader is probably using about 50 gallons of water for a large load. Since it appeared the bulk of the washers that used little water were front loaders I asked friends what they had those with front loaders said they hadn't had a issue with the seal but that you had to keep the inside dry by wiping it down and leaving the door partially open, from that I decided that the seal issue had either been fixed or was at least better. The cleaning and leaving the door open wasn't an issue for me. My front loader is arriving next week so this will only be my second experience with one, but I tend to trust my friends reviews of theirs and I think with my usage I shouldn't have an issue getting 10 years out of one. The Estate Dryer is still going strong neither unit has ever been serviced so sometimes cheap isn't as bad as it seems.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

@Kappen, 20 years ago cheap and current cheap are not the same thing.

Good luck with your FL.

My mother, who is also on septic, just went front loading this year. She got an entry level LG set and just loves them. I hope for her they do last quite some time.

She finds her things are cleaner and definitely better rinsed. She also loves how quickly they dry (since the FL spins much more water out than the old top loaders).

In over 10 years of FL use, I have never once wiped out my gasket. I do leave the door open after use and usually pull out the detergent tray to let air circulate. Hot water wash or tub clean once a month. It's pretty simple really - a lot of people just didn't maintain their machines properly (I know several).

@Nunyabiz1, you know not of what you speak. PERIOD. Like so many mindless Internet junkies ... because you read it on the Internet it must be true. Assume for one minute that a great majority of those FL issues were user error (not saying all).

Since you are so big on what CR says, did you read this?

"The best front-loaders clean better and more efficiently than the best high-efficiency top-loaders, without necessarily costing more. Most can handle roughly 12- to 20-pound loads. Even faster spin speeds than high-efficiency top-loaders typically mean better moisture extraction in the spin cycle, reducing drying time and energy consumption." PERIOD.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

No problem to each his own.

I guess ALL the reviews I have read, and I mean HUNDREDS complaining about their front loaders all know nothing of what they speak. Live an learn I guess, since you apparently know everything there is to know about front loaders and all those people must have been mistaken or just delusional.

Sadly I trusted the HUNDREDS of others that have said otherwise.
I will just have to live with my HE, top rated, top loader for the next 10-15 years.
Fortunately I prefer the top loader design so it wont be any inconvenience.

Like I said before the top loader we went with is 4.5cu ft capacity which is just as large as virtually ANY of the front loaders, is HE so uses no more water than the best front loaders and as far as I can tell cleans every bit as good from what hundreds of owners have stated and also spins at 1100RPM so gets just as much water from the washed clothes as the front loaders.
It is basically a front loader without the inherent problems.

Also I might add YOU are a mindless internet junkie which is why you are here on this website.
If we are not to trust hundreds and hundreds of costumer reviews then what is the purpose of a site like this or why should we ever bother reading any review ever?

The one my wife and I went with had BY FAR the most positive reviews of ANY washer and dryer we looked at top or front loader, so we went with it.
It was also one of the top rated on CR.
The brand was the top rated as far as needing fewest repairs.

I fail to see short of having a crystal ball how we possibly could have chosen better using all of the resources we have at our disposal, being an internet junkie an all.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

Wow ... using all those CAPITALS must make you feel like a real man. Good luck to your wife.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

Frontloaders by nature of horizontal orientation are more effective at washing in small volumes of water than vertical-orientation HE toploaders. Gravity pulls the load down in a toploader which presents more of a challenge in getting the items effectively mixed and agitated by the impeller whirling on bottom of the basket. The rotating drum of a frontloader is more effective at picking up the items and flipping them over and through the water. Some HE toploaders have a recirculation shower that runs occasionally to help keep the items saturated but by-and-large agitation is still the primary action. Whirlpool's Calypso design was highly-effective in this regard, being that recirculation was a primary part of the washing and rinsing process along with bouncing/rolling of the items by the wash plate ... but current HE toploaders don't work that way.

Adding a forgotten item is rarely an issue with frontloaders nowadays. The water level remains below the rim of the door (except perhaps in some cases on Delicate or Bulky cycles that fill higher), and they can all be paused to unlock/open the door (except in cases of a safety lockout if the water has been heated to a temp unsafe for contact).

This thread has gotten wayyyyy off-topic from the OP's question of selecting a dryer. :-)


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RE: correction ...

@Nunyabiz1, correction ... I actually meant to type "good luck to YOU and your wife".

@dadoes, agreed.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

I sure didn't mean to start an argument. For what it is worth, I too have heard horrible things about front loading washing machines. I am not a "maintenance" kind of girl and I have cats. I would never leave a door open on any appliance because my kitties can and do climb in things and then can get trapped. I don't want to wipe out my washing machine after each use, and I sure don't want to run an empty load to wash the machine itself. For all these reasons, a front loader is not for me. Additionally, the guy at the store said you are a fool to buy a front loader if you don't do laundry very often because they will get moldy if you let them sit for weeks.

I think that FL vs TL has to do more with how a person uses the appliance than the appliance itself.

Regarding comments on prices coming down, prices are supposed to come down on things over time unless the currency is being manipulated like our federal reserve does to our currency. The fed creates money out of thin air for the government to spend on things it doesn't have the money for, this inflates the money supply. When the money supply is inflated each dollar is worth less than before and thus you experience price inflation.

Electronics typically drop in price over the years because technology improves and becomes more efficient and also because people do want to spend less and manufacturers use lower quality products. (Without monetary inflation those prices would drop a whole lot more).

For those that don't know, the government has regulations out that have interfered with how well products work. In some washers, according to regulations they can't have really hot water coming in to the machine out of the tap, so they use tepid water to wash clothes, but if you really want that hot water, the washer will heat up the warm water for you. Silly and inefficient, but that is what happens when bureaucrats build a machine rather than an engineer.

Sure people want good products for less money. There is nothing wrong with a person who does. That doesn't mean they should be ripped off. Spending the most on a product doesn't guarantee you will get a great product either. Miele makes great electric dryers, but you can spend a fortune on their gas dryer and get something that has nothing but complaints.

I put a lot more stock in a sampling of hundreds of consumer's experiences than I do in the personal experience of one person. Being an "internet junkie" is a compliment in my book. The internet is a marvelous place where you have access to information we always dreamed we would have. Anyone who conducts lots of internet research will be better informed than the person who asked two friends what products they like.

BACK TO THE DRYER ISSUE:

I called Whirlpool and asked them about their Cabrio dryers and got some really confusing information. They said that they are trying to stay ahead of government regulations so they are coming up with more efficient dryers. From what they said, they are coming up with more complicated dryers that have a ton more parts that might break. They have added moisture sensors in the dryer drum along with the other ones they had in the outtake. They have added thermostats in the dryer drum too(they called them thermasters). They said they used these thermostats to drop the temperature of the dryer as it goes so it will use less energy. I asked if that "feature" wouldn't also extend drying time as lower temps have to dry slower, but they seemed baffled by my question. Most importantly however, the customer service reps were rude and stupid. Makes me question the company.

Nunyabiz, congrats on your purchase. I would love to know if you like your dryer, or if you think it works just like all other dryers. How large is yours and does it feel large to you? Apparently, I misread the size on the Cabrio and it is only 7.4 not 7.6. sigh. Now I am not as sold as I was. My main reason for going that expensive was the additional size over the 7.0 I used to have. Now, I wonder if 7.4 is that much bigger.

Thanks for the info on the LG and Samsungs. You sure sound like you researched as much as I have. I hope you have nothing but worry free years of great laundering. I will take a closer look at those brands.

I know I am being duped by my own anecdotal evidence, but I just moved into a ten year old house that has 3 Maytag appliances and all of them are complete junk. I have a dishwasher where the racks are all rusted. I have never seen rust on a dishwasher rack before. I have a Maytag oven that whines when in use, the door won't close and the light doesn't light. I have a Maytag gas stove top that I am sure is going to set me on fire one of these days. I have never seen such a burst of flame when turning on a burner. Not sure who makes those Maytags, but I am going to find out. One bad appliance is one thing, but 3 out of 3? I suppose those could be bottom of the line garbage too. I do know the original owner paid a lot for these "upgraded" appliances.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

Toploaders also develop mold and scum. I have experience as a service tech, and have refurbished several used toploaders for myself, friends, and to sell ... I have personally seen toploaders VERY grungy "under the hood."

Regards to moisture sensors in dryer drums, that was developed in the 1960s so it's not a new thing. Advertising departments like to tout this feature or that as the latest new thing, when everything isn't necessarily so new.

Dryers have had thermostats since day 1. That's what controls the temperature ... otherwise the drum would keep getting hotter and hotter and hotter the entire time the unit runs, to the point the clothes could scorch or literally catch fire. The operating thermostat shuts the heat source off when the target temperature is reached (165F or 155F or 145F or 135F or 125F, etc. per the selected high/medium/low/whatever temperature on the machine's controls), then back on when the temp drops by 25F or so, cycling the heat on and off to maintain the air temperature in the drum (or measured via the exhaust air) within a particular range.

A thermistor is nothing more than an electronic thermostat (not a moisture sensor), an electronic device that increases/decreases in electrical resistance (ohms) in response to temperature changes. Thermistors allow a more narrow range of control than thermostats ... that is, the dryer's control electronics can hold the air temperature within a closer range to the target, perhaps within a 10F range of the target.

Thermostats operate on a fixed cut-in and cut-out point. An operating thermostat that cuts-out at 155F and cuts-in at 130F will maintain that range for the entire cycle. A machine using a thermistor and electronic control boards can be programmed via software on the board to reduce the air temperature as the cycle progresses ... reading the thermistor resistance to maintain a higher temp at beginning of the cycle (moisture evaporating out of the clothes keeps them cooler than the air temperature), then gradually ramping the temp down as the load approaches dryness (the clothes get warmer due to less moisture in them) per the moisture sensor in the drum.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

"Sure people want good products for less money. There is nothing wrong with a person who does."

You can't get something for nothing. It's just pure logic (at least to me).

I own the Miele gas dryer and have no issues in performance. I've only read major complaints from one poster on this forum about the gas dryer.

I didn't mean to insinuate it was bad to do your homework and read lots. I'm guilty of that. What you do need to do is temper what you read. Some people here and acting like what they read is the "gospel" and they have no real experience of their own.

Some people just want everyone to believe what they believe. They are not here for open discussion but to convince people they are right.

Also agree, not every product is for everyone. Each person's needs are different.

Good luck with your dryer search.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

"Nunyabiz, congrats on your purchase. I would love to know if you like your dryer, or if you think it works just like all other dryers. How large is yours and does it feel large to you? Apparently, I misread the size on the Cabrio and it is only 7.4 not 7.6. sigh. Now I am not as sold as I was. My main reason for going that expensive was the additional size over the 7.0 I used to have. Now, I wonder if 7.4 is that much bigger.

Thanks for the info on the LG and Samsungs. You sure sound like you researched as much as I have. I hope you have nothing but worry free years of great laundering. I will take a closer look at those brands."
================================================

I will not know until Nov 11th, they were selling them like hotcakes and will be almost 2 weeks before we get it.
but I will come back here and let you know our impressions after we launder 2 weeks worth of laundry in one day.

The Dryer is the LG DLEX5101H and is 7.3cu.ft, looked huge compared to our 17 year old dryer that I think is about 6.0cu.ft.
Will be WAY more than enough for my wife and I and we do my 94 year old mothers laundry for her also.
We normally do about 6 loads a week which will probably shrink to about 3-4 loads due to the larger size of both washer and dryer, plus take HOURS less time due to a better and larger dryer.

Yes like everything we buy I research the hell out of it.
When we got our current washer I remember we went with the HE Top Loader then because of the same thing, people did not like front loaders because of mold issues and bearing failures, I found the exact same issues this time 7 years later, so again went with a top loader.
this one seems to encompass all the good parts of the front loaders without the problems associated with them.

I have never seen ANY appliance get such good reviews before, so sounded like the obvious choice to me.
Usually all you ever see is bad reviews because that is when people get motivated to write a review is when they are PO'd. A product has to be really good in general to receive so many good, glowing reviews. So we will see.


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RE:No, just exasperated

"Wow ... using all those CAPITALS must make you feel like a real man"
=====================================
No, merely using 7 capitalized words made me feel like maybe it would sink in to what appears to be thick skulls is all.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

You know I just noticed that I can not even find a FL washing machine as large as the top loader we just purchased.
About the largest I could find was 4.4cu'ft (equivalent)what ever that means. I suppose they must exist but not on Sears or Home Depot or Lowes sites.
Ours is 4.5cu.ft
I also noticed along with the massive amounts of people complaining about musty moldy smells in their FL was also they have much longer cycles, averaging 1 1/2 to 2 hours.

Our top loader is 50-75 minutes average depending on options selected with only one cycle (the Sanitize cycle which heats the water up to 158 degrees) that takes 2 hours or so.

I have seen some really good "professional reviews" on FL like from magazines or sites claiming to be experts on appliances or what ever BUT the "Consumer reviews" do not in most cases reflect what the other reviews are claiming at all.
Personally I trust what customers that bought the product and are not paid to review have to say more.
The professional reviews seem to be boiler plate and not very honest.

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_02643772000P?prdNo=8&blockNo=8&blockType=G8#reviewsWrap

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_02645833000P?prdNo=9&blockNo=34&blockType=G34#reviewsWrap

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_02637852000P?prdNo=14&blockNo=14&blockType=G14#reviewsWrap

I see nothing but the same problems with most all FL, Mold, Musty smell, Seal Leaks, Long cycle times, bearing failures, etc.
About the only brand that seemed fairly decent were the LG FL but even then we could not even come close to the price of $1700 for both and get a 4.5cu.ft washer with a 7.3cu.ft dryer for that price.
All the LGs that were even close to that size 4.2cu.ft there weren't any as large as 4.5cu.ft, the cheapest one was $1200 just for the washer.
Why would anyone spend at least $500+ more for a pair that are not any better and quite likely will be prone to more problems?


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

Yawn


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

@Nunyabiz1, yep ... clearly you are the SMARTEST member of this forum. Clearly only YOU can understand the intricate details of these complicated machines. Wow ... I stand in awe ... my thick skull is bursting with admiration.

@asolo, LOL ...


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RE:no need for rudeness

Not sure how anyone could possibly get that impression about anything I have said at all.

ALL I have done is state what hundreds of reviews from owners have stated all over various websites for a decade, nothing more.
There is nothing complicated about them and there is nothing complicated about what I have said.

I have stated nothing but fact backed up by reviews plus hours of research.
If your single opinion differs then that is your opinion.

My opinion about FL is not from ownership, it is solely from researching hundreds of "other opinions" and the majority of them differ greatly from yours is all.

So I tend to believe hundreds Vs one or two.

All of which makes no difference at all, I made my decision to buy what I did based on the opinions of hundreds of satisfied costumers, hopefully they will be correct and I will be happy with that decision.

You are happy as a pig in manure with your FL, that is absolutely fantastic and more power to you.
Its just one of those things.

Our current washer is a Maytag Neptune HE top loader, at the time we bought it it was brand new, had just come out that month. I saw like maybe 2 reviews on it and both liked it but it was one of the first top loader HE machines that did not have a center agitator so I took a chance on it.
Been an excellent machine for 7 years without a single problem of any kind what so ever, cleans great, works great.

BUT I just looked out of curiosity yesterday at reviews of that same machine and was literally shocked to see review after review of ONE STARS, I mean people hate this machine with a burning passion type reviews and I mean lots of them, in fact it is probably the worst reviewed machine I think I have ever laid eyes on.
Yet we love it, been great for 7 years, if I were to write a review on I would have to give it 5 stars as far as I am concerned as it really couldn't have preformed better.

Basically it appears to me your FL experience is like my Maytag Neptune experience, both are anomalies and not the norm.
Really no reason to be rude about it.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

Ahh. A Neptune TL. I have a Neptune TL. It works quite nicely on full loads of heavy items. It's horrible on agitating small loads, or even large loads of lightweight items. Have you bypassed the lid lock and watched it? I have.

I recently ran a load of 17 shirts and a few other items, figured surely that'd be enough for the lifters to grab. It didn't turn the clothes over even once during the entire wash period. The load sat between the tumblers, the items on the bottom got a drubbing, the shirts on top of the pile didn't even get saturated with detergent solution and the one on the very top had a dry spot. I kept watching, thinking maybe it'll eventually flip the load at least once, but no. I reset it for another wash when the drain period started and manually helped it roll the load over.

Of course you don't know about this situation if you've never watched it run. The shirt with a dry spot would have gotten fully wet by end of the cycle after the spin-sprays and rinses, but it wouldn't have been properly washed with detergent.

Also, my unit had a broken clutch at 6 months.

It is an interesting washer, but surely not a "great" machine. In my informed opinion. :-)


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

"Basically it appears to me your FL experience is like my Maytag Neptune experience, both are anomalies and not the norm."

You accuse others of having a "thick skull" because they don't agree with your logic (which is flawed IMO).

If my FL experience is an anomaly ... then ALL of Europe must be an anomaly too. They've been using front loaders forever. Much longer than anyone in North America. Perhaps you should educate them - perhaps no one has told them about all the problems with front loaders.

"and the majority of them differ greatly from yours"

HOGWASH

There are tons of great reviews for front loaders out there. You have decided that the negative ones you've read make up the majority of owners (ludicrous).

Arguing with you is also ludicrous but I can't seem to help myself.

You're not the only one who did some research. I researched my purchase for close to a year.

I have owned two different front load machines - how many have you owned?? Oh that's right ... none.

Plenty of others on this forum own front loaders and love them. Perhaps they are all anomalies too.

You make strong statements based on what YOU perceive as reality. It doesn't make it so.

I'm sure your new machine will be fine for you but don't profess to tell everyone reading this thread things that are not true. I take offence to people who do that.

It's your opinion it's NOT fact. Let's just be clear about that.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

Dadoes, and yet like I said ours works great without a single problem for 7 years go figure.
In fact I was a bit miffed at my wife wanting a new washer because this one worked so well and ANY appliance is a crap shoot. but she was dead set on getting a "set" so we have 2 new machines and both the same.
I guess she was right, even though ours has worked perfect, cleaned great for 7 years, from the reviews I have seen it almost seems impossible.

live better,
good for you and FL, done with wasting my fingers on your nonsense.
I trust the hundreds of reviews I have seen that state very clearly other wise, plain and simple.
Never said "my opinion" is fact, just said that it is a fact that hundreds of others say over & over that they have mold/mildew problems with FL, also bearing problems and seal problems, it IS very prevalent which is a FACT.
Your denial of that fact doesn't make it magically go away.

/ignore


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

@Nunyabiz1, you are still trying to say that you are right based on your opinion of what you read.

Could you please put a value on "very prevalent"? I'm curious what percentage of owners have this problem. Yep ... I'm guessing you have no idea.

You have no idea how many people are very happy with theirs. You make it sound like I'm the only crazy happy FL owner (more ridiculousness).

You are ignoring all the good and only focusing on what you want to focus on.

Still doesn't make you smarter than everyone else. It makes you a stubborn old man who only wants to see what he wants to see. Period.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

I guess all the thousands of people in a class action law suit suing many manufactures over the design flaw of FRONT LOADER washing machines are all simply delusional also?

http://www.lieffcabraser.com/defective-products/case/126/whirlpool-front-loading-washers

http://www.gslawny.com/files/consol_complaint_final.5-6-08.pdf

http://www.eppsteiner.com/california-lawsuits-investigations/front-load-washer-mold-investigation.html

Doesn't matter at all what front Load washer either, even the so called top O the line super expensive Miele at over $2000 has the same problem.

http://www.seegerweiss.com/product-liability-actions/miele-front-load-washers/

Maytag actually recalled thousands of machines because of it. Yet to you this is all "Hogwash"?

It has been in the news, on MSNBC and numerous local stations all over the country for over a decade, all stating the same problem, yet they are all wrong and it is all hogwash.

http://www.wsoctv.com/news/17965894/detail.html

Appliance repair site telling about how common and the reason why front loaders have Bearing Failure problems.
They are lying of course.

http://forum.appliancepartspros.com/washer-repair/74149-front-load-washer-bearing.html

I mean really just how many washing machines for how many years have to be provably a poor design that produces mold and mildew, plus bearing failure and seal leaks have to happen before a class action lawsuit gets started?
My guess is a bit more than a few.

These are just a tiny fraction of the problems I have seen while researching these machines, most people that have a problem are the same 3 problems "mostly" mold and mildew is number one by a long shot, then the other two are about equal.
Way more than enough to make me not want to to take the chance on a front loader.

Top loaders have their problems also, but not even close to as many and not nearly as prevalent.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

"done with wasting my fingers on your nonsense" ...

Sadly, I hoped you meant it.

After I picked myself up off the floor (from laughing at your "law" websites). I mean seriously??? You've heard of ambulance chasers right? Scumbag lawyers will find any reason to start a law suit.

Especially Americans (no offence to my neighbors to the South). I mean, we get some American channels here and every second commercial is for a law firm wanting to sue someone on your behalf ("Have you or someone you know been hurt in an automobile accident? Call Soleno and Barnes. Did you take drug X while pregnant and your baby was born with birth defects? Call Frank and Frank.")

You'll have to do better than some ambulance chasers.

As for the other two ... the end of your WSOCTV news article tells consumers how to properly "maintain" their front load washer to avoid these problems. BINGO.

I didn't see anyone in that news clip ask these owners if they had done anything to properly care for their machine (leave the door open, run a hot wash at least once a month, dose detergent carefully). I'm not saying these problems can't happen but I don't believe most of them are machine issues but user issues. That news article lacked any real investigative journalism.

Any appliance needs some level of maintenance but because most top load owners never gave it a thought, they buy new front loaders and don't change their thinking.

My 65 year old mother got a new LG front loader (first FL in her life). I told her how to properly maintain it and she is not having any issues. In fact, she loves her new machines.

I mean to develop black mold in your detergent tray or gasket means you never left it open. It's never had air circulating. People just need to think ...

I will agree that some manufacturers did not do a good job of educating their customers how to care for their machine properly.

I have a friend who had a TOL LG FL. Her laundry room started to smell like a swamp. She did everything and the problem didn't go away. I went over and opened up the filter - disgusting - there was a tiny baby sock, a hair srunchy and some other debris in there stinking to high heaven. She said, "I didn't know I have to check the filter??" There you go ... nothing wrong with her machine ... she didn't read the manual.

What I'm trying (in vain) to make you understand is many of these so called problems are user issues. I'm sure there were some machines (particularly NA made) that had design flaws but you making a blanket statement about the whole category based on your evidence here is wrong.

You're clearly allowed to have your opinion but you are basically saying you're right and anyone who disagrees with you is wrong and must not know how to read.

I suggest to you that there may be more than one side to this argument.

You did your research and you made your decision accordingly but I certainly don't want others who read this thread to think you have all the answers because you don't.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

No I am basically saying that I have to go by the tons of reviews that I see that say they have mold,seal and bearing problems, when I look at washers and Fl after FL has anywhere from 20-50% of their reviews stating at least one of these problems then for some odd reason I feel I should take that seriously that is all.

I do not see that same level of problems with top loaders.
Certain models of top loaders have their own problems but it seems to be just THAT model of THAT brand type thing not across the board problems with top loaders in general.

I had all the answers I needed just for ME personally to make my decision no more no less.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

You taking those reviews at face value without "deeper" thought does not make you a good researcher.

research/ˈrˌsərCH/

Noun:

The systematic investigation into and study of materials and sources in order to establish facts and reach new conclusions.
Anyone can Google something but really researching it is understanding the issues completely. What you present here are not "facts" just opinion (an opinion skewed by reviews that may or may not have merit).

What you are still ignoring and failing to acknowledge is many of those "so called" reviews are not machine problems at all but user error.

If you want to deduce that all those people took good care of their machines and still had problems so FL machines must be faulty by their very nature, well, that's your prerogative.

You can find post after post that describes front loaders as being the best at cleaning. You don't find it the least bit interesting that all of Europe (and other parts of the world) have been using FL technology for ever without issue?

Or do you think all those Germans just live with stinky, leaking machines that fail prematurely.

There's a world beyond the USA and information beyond what Google will turn up.

The reason I take issue with your posts is your wording is VERY strong for someone with no real substance. Comments like, "Why would anyone spend at least $500+ more for a pair ...". Here's a thought - maybe they're better machines.

After watching the attached video and the additional 3 parts, we should all assume HE TL machines have issues too.

Here is a link that might be useful: LG Washer Gone Bad during Spin Cycle pt1/4


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

So hundreds of reviewers are simply idiots to the point that sites like this are actually just a complete waste of time.

Gotcha.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

I'm not sure which posters on this site you are referring to (as usual you're making big claims with no real evidence). Most of the regular posters with FL machines love them. Linked just one of many threads regarding this debate on GW.

FWIW, this site is a group of like minded individuals discussing a common interest. Most posters are not rude enough to shove their beliefs down everyone's throat and insinuate if they're not in agreement than they must be dumb (or not know how to read). And usually not rude enough to completely hijack someone else's thread (as has happened here - apologies to the OP).

I would also love to see which sites you found where 20 - 50% of the reviews are negative (all referring to your infamous 3 FL flaws).

I sure hope they are more reliable than your class action law suits, pathetic journalistic attempt and random repair guy.

I also assume the hundreds of positive reviews are crazy people who don't know they are an anomaly of front load washing. You should tell them - you obviously have insight they do not.

Why do your supposed negative reviews carry more weight than all the positive ones? Who made you God of that? Clearly, you've made up your mind (right or wrong) and won't hear of anyone who actually disagrees and likes their machine. To you, they are dumb (that's how your writing comes across).

"So hundreds of reviewers are simply idiots ..."

Well, if the shoe fits. You make me keep repeating myself (I'm wondering who's got the thick skull).

I'm not saying everyone and I'm not saying they're idiots. No one told them perhaps, perhaps they didn't read their manual, maybe they never gave it any thought - no matter how it happened - they didn't maintain the machine properly (wow, how many times have I typed that .. sheesh). It�s not what you want to hear so you keep ignoring it.

I'm not an anomaly, I just know how to take care of my machine (again I've owned 2, every friend I have owns FL machines, several family members own them, everyone who takes care of them has no issues). Maybe I should call the Guinness Book of World Records - so many happy FL users all in one place.

I'm not sure why it's so important for you to win this disagreement. Someone rationale might just say let's agree to disagree but you're clearly to stubborn for that.

The bottom line is, you haven't proven your theory. If you'd like to post some real concrete information than I'd be willing to read it.

Here is a link that might be useful: Front load vs top load washer


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

I sure didn't mean to start an argument. For what it is worth, I too have heard horrible things about front loading washing machines. I am not a "maintenance" kind of girl and I have cats. I would never leave a door open on any appliance because my kitties can and do climb in things and then can get trapped. I don't want to wipe out my washing machine after each use, and I sure don't want to run an empty load to wash the machine itself. For all these reasons, a front loader is not for me. Additionally, the guy at the store said you are a fool to buy a front loader if you don't do laundry very often because they will get moldy if you let them sit for weeks.

I think that FL vs TL has to do more with how a person uses the appliance than the appliance itself.

Regarding comments on prices coming down, prices are supposed to come down on things over time unless the currency is being manipulated like our federal reserve does to our currency. The fed creates money out of thin air for the government to spend on things it doesn't have the money for, this inflates the money supply. When the money supply is inflated each dollar is worth less than before and thus you experience price inflation.

Electronics typically drop in price over the years because technology improves and becomes more efficient and also because people do want to spend less and manufacturers use lower quality products. (Without monetary inflation those prices would drop a whole lot more).

For those that don't know, the government has regulations out that have interfered with how well products work. In some washers, according to regulations they can't have really hot water coming in to the machine out of the tap, so they use tepid water to wash clothes, but if you really want that hot water, the washer will heat up the warm water for you. Silly and inefficient, but that is what happens when bureaucrats build a machine rather than an engineer.

Sure people want good products for less money. There is nothing wrong with a person who does. That doesn't mean they should be ripped off. Spending the most on a product doesn't guarantee you will get a great product either. Miele makes great electric dryers, but you can spend a fortune on their gas dryer and get something that has nothing but complaints.

I put a lot more stock in a sampling of hundreds of consumer's experiences than I do in the personal experience of one person. Being an "internet junkie" is a compliment in my book. The internet is a marvelous place where you have access to information we always dreamed we would have. Anyone who conducts lots of internet research will be better informed than the person who asked two friends what products they like.

BACK TO THE DRYER ISSUE:

I called Whirlpool and asked them about their Cabrio dryers and got some really confusing information. They said that they are trying to stay ahead of government regulations so they are coming up with more efficient dryers. From what they said, they are coming up with more complicated dryers that have a ton more parts that might break. They have added moisture sensors in the dryer drum along with the other ones they had in the outtake. They have added thermostats in the dryer drum too(they called them thermasters). They said they used these thermostats to drop the temperature of the dryer as it goes so it will use less energy. I asked if that "feature" wouldn't also extend drying time as lower temps have to dry slower, but they seemed baffled by my question. Most importantly however, the customer service reps were rude and stupid. Makes me question the company.

Nunyabiz, congrats on your purchase. I would love to know if you like your dryer, or if you think it works just like all other dryers. How large is yours and does it feel large to you? Apparently, I misread the size on the Cabrio and it is only 7.4 not 7.6. sigh. Now I am not as sold as I was. My main reason for going that expensive was the additional size over the 7.0 I used to have. Now, I wonder if 7.4 is that much bigger.

Thanks for the info on the LG and Samsungs. You sure sound like you researched as much as I have. I hope you have nothing but worry free years of great laundering. I will take a closer look at those brands.

I know I am being duped by my own anecdotal evidence, but I just moved into a ten year old house that has 3 Maytag appliances and all of them are complete junk. I have a dishwasher where the racks are all rusted. I have never seen rust on a dishwasher rack before. I have a Maytag oven that whines when in use, the door won't close and the light doesn't light. I have a Maytag gas stove top that I am sure is going to set me on fire one of these days. I have never seen such a burst of flame when turning on a burner. Not sure who makes those Maytags, but I am going to find out. One bad appliance is one thing, but 3 out of 3? I suppose those could be bottom of the line garbage too. I do know the original owner paid a lot for these "upgraded" appliances.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

Is there some reason you re-posted the exact same thing as yesterday? Annoying.

"...the guy at the store said you are a fool to buy a front loader if you don't do laundry very often because they will get moldy if you let them sit for weeks."

PS....this sales person is an idiot. I'm past six years on mine. There have been many occasions when it's sat for many weeks. It's as clean today as the day it was delivered.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

@asolo, you're an anomaly. Welcome to the club! ;)


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

Jennifer I would basically just ignore these two.

I am with you on the front loader situation except that I do not see it as a totally operator error issue.
I have read far too many reviews of people that stated they did everything in the book, left door open, cleaned with bleach etc and still had mold issues.
And that still doesn't address the bearing failures and seal leaks which seem rather prevalent regardless what these two have to say about it.
You can read the reviews yourself and sounds like you have.
Either hundreds of reviewers are lying or front loaders are just not all that great.

Then there is the extra expense and for what?

Just isn't worth the extra $500+ especially since they aren't any better.
I would not put too much faith into what salesmen and corporate lackys from Whirlpool or ANY other company have to say.

Go with your gut, make a decision based on what fits your needs the best, and all you can really do is read reviews and throw out the ones where the reviewers seems like an idiot.
If you read 200 reviews on one machine and 98% of those reviews are 5 star with virtually no one listing any glaring problems then odds are at least decent that might be a good machine.
If you read 50 reviews on a machine and more than 20% of the reviews keep listing the exact same problem (like mold for instance)then odds are there might be a problem with mold with that machine.
It is simple mathematics.

When we get ours hopefully on the 11th I will give you an honest report of what we think about them after doing about 10 loads of laundry that we will have piled up by then.
Of course that will not give you any dependability rating as that will not be available for about another 7+ years.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

I would prefer a review based on your experience....of which you have none. This is a book report.

Having no actual experience, it seems to me you've tried to be diligent and thorough in your research -- which is what we all try to do. You've placed your bet via purchase. Hope it works out for you. Please do come back later and tell us what you think of the new units.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

@Jennifer & Nunyabiz

Jennifer by door open they just mean unlock and ajar they don't mean wide open, your cats would be fine.

Nunyabiz, about bearing failures, while I will admit I did see posts about bearing failures it occurred to me it was probably because of the high RPMs FLs spin most seems to do 1000-1300 RPM. Your top loader since its a HE washer spins just as fast so you might have the same issue. Most of the FL reviews I read with bearing complaints were machines over 5 years old. Have fast spinning top loading HE washers even been on the market for 5 years?


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

Like Asolo, I have a Whirlpool set that is almost 5 years old and troublefree. Clean clothes, fast drying, no mold or smell. Proper operation that does not require a lot of time or effort is the key to being happy with FLs.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

@oregpsnow, according to Nunyabiz1 you're an anomaly. It apparently has nothing to do with your maintenance of your machine. And he should know he's read hundreds of reviews.

He still hasn't enlightened us with where exactly those reviews are so we can judge for ourselves the content.

Who even knows what machines he's talking about.

I agree, older machines like my previous Frigidaire were known for bearing failure. Although I got 10 solid years from mine so I'm not complaining.

@Nunyabiz1 would like to ignore all the "actual" front load owners on this forum as we all disagree with his theory.

I thought about it today, I actually know 27 people using front load machines. I'm curious how many actual users Nunyabiz1 knows. I'm guessing none.

Only one person had an issue with one set of machines. Her and her husband are builders so they move fairly often. She's had 4 sets of FL machines and only the LG had a problem. She didn't run screaming from font loaders, she started buying Miele after that (she's had 2 sets of Miele) and she's super happy.

Most people come to this forum to hear the opinion/advice of actual users. I guess Nunyabiz1 only wanted to come here and tell everyone what he thought. Interesting.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

I did not nor has anyone else said that 100% of FL are junk and will have a mold problem 100% of the time.

What I see which I have stated quite clearly is that about 20% of all the reviews I see for ALL FL mention a mold/mildew problem, some makes an models little more than that, some less.

I also see quite a few having bearing failure and seal leaks, far more than a few and far more than enough to make it a serious concern before I would ever plop down more than $2500 for the average pair of FLs.

I have only known one person in my life that had a FL washer and they hated it, it had mold problems and they just didn't like bending over to take the cloths out either, they actually sold it before it had a chance for the bearing to fail they had it I think about 2 years at most.

I am an actual user of TOP LOADERS, this is NOT a FRONT LOADER forum.
I simply gave the OP my OPINION based on hundreds of reviews I have read the past few weeks while shopping for a washer and dryer and why I made my choice to get a top loader Vs a FL. No more no less.

You are the one with a stick up yer arse not me.

You do not agree with me, that is great, that is your opinion and I have mine which I base on hundreds of reviews I have read, why is that so hard for you to grasp?


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

Kappen,
yes the TL we are getting spins at 1100rpm but the problems with FL bearing failures is a design flaw not RPM related.

It is not uncommon for the bearing failures to happen in less than 3 years and it is pretty common to happen between 5-7 years. I am not paying a premium of well over $1000 for a washer that is only going to last on average 5 years.

Here is an appliance repair site talking about the problem.
========================================================
""The problem you have is characteristic of front load washers. The reason is that the axis is horizontal but the pressure is vertical. There is simply no way a design can be made that offsets this problem and would still have low enough cost to be economically saleable, or at least no one has come up with one yet. Throw in microprocessor controls and with a front load washer you have expensive problems waiting to happen.

A basic top loading washer will do a great job, cost less, be less likely to fail and cost less to repair.""

http://forum.appliancepartspros.com/washer-repair/74149-front-load-washer-bearing.html
========================================================

Also TL washers are better at handling off balance loads which could be part of the problem.

Another repairman of 30 years talking about the bearing problem.

http://ezinearticles.com/?Why-Should-You-Get-a-Top-Load-Washer-Instead-of-a-Front-Load-Washer&id=1434556


Another repairman in the business for years, here is what he says about FL washers.
===========================================================
"""I'm seeing American-made front loaders' main bearings lasting only 5-7 years, and that's just not long enough (I don't see enough 'offshore' brand machines - Asko, Miele, etc - to know much about their reliability).

It's tough to fix this inherent weakness, and it's the number one reason (of several) that I can't recommend these machines.

Here's the problem: When you hang 40-50 pounds of water, laundry, and basket out on the end of a rotating shaft supported by bearings pressed into plastic, you have a mechanical system that just can't survive very long.

Other problems include leakage at the seam between the two (plastic) tank halves, basket pulley failure, usually resulting in tub wear-through and leaks, and motor (3 phase) controller circuit board failures, just to name a few of the most common."""

http://www.davesrepair.com/DIYhelp/DIYnofrontloadersyet.htm
===========================================================

These are inherent problems with the front loader design in general, yes you can have a front loader last 10 years without an issue obviously but your odds of it failing on you are greater than the odds of a TL failing.

Another FL problem related to the bearing failures is this "Spider bracket" problem in Kenmore, Whirlpool, Maytag, Frigidaire washers.

http://tim.cexx.org/?tag=front-load

Here are 331 Complaints about Mold/Mildew problems with various FL washers on just this one site.

http://housewares.about.com/b/2011/08/16/reader-mold-issue-with-large-whirlpool-duet-washer.htm

75% of Americans still prefer Top Loaders and most that try FL go back to top loaders.

http://174.129.132.250/home/2010/04/best-front-loaders-top-loaders-which-is-more-popular-mold-vibration-washing-machine-reviews.html


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

Fine, fine, fine.

Now, how 'bout everybody takin' a good long swig of shut-up and maybe just camp out for a while until Nunyabiz1 takes delivery and lives with his/her chosen machine for maybe more than a week and maybe comes back with an opinion that isn't somebody else's.

Jeez....I feel like I'm being chastised for my study habits.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

Wow, I can't believe how lucky I have been, lol. I have had FLs by Hotpoint, Philips, Asko and Miele over the past 40 years or so, and haven't experienced so much as one problem with mold, seal or bearings.

Pity I haven't been so lucky with my lottery tickets ;-)


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

"You do not agree with me ..."

Agreeing with you is not the issue. Your attitude is the issue. Maybe your a grumpy old man ... I don't know. There must be some reason your comments sound the way they do.

You just posted another rude comment on another thread where you profess to know what will happen to someone else with a front load machine.

You didn't say it was just your opinion, you out and out said, "except of course if you put large loads in the FL the bearings will fail just that much faster." (like you actually know it will happen - VERY presumptuous)

I don't have a stick anywhere, I just have no patience for "know it alls" that really know nothing and add absolutely nothing to the conversation.

If you want to start commenting like a considerate human, well, maybe I'd feel different.

In fact, after reading your above post I was going to say that was the most humble post I've read from you until I saw that cr** you wrote on the other thread.

Here's a news flash - people here can read. We wouldn't be here if we couldn't read. We've all read stuff and we've all made our own decisions. You're not like some super Internet slueth who figured out what all us poor dumb front load users couldn't.

Why don't you just get your new machine, enjoy it and stop trying to tell us why we're so stupid. I'm not telling you your stupid for getting and HE TL.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

@Kaffen....

lol...you don't know my cats! They get into everything. One day, after my kitten had grown into a teenager cat, I came home and was shocked when I looked in the kitchen. Every single drawer in the kitchen was pulled out! He went around, put his paws up and then used his body weight to pull the drawer out. Then, my other kitten jumped on the counter and had pulled out everything and tossed it on the floor!

I have learned that I have to be extra careful with these kitties. For instance, this morning my tiniest girl had crawled through the wood blinds to get into the window. We even had to change every door handle to door knobs in the house because one of my cats can open any door that has a handle on it. Trust me, they would get into a washing machine. They already sit on top of the dryer when it is going. They love warm and dark places, and they even learned how to get into my entertainment unit to sit on the dish receiver.

@asolo...I don't know what you are talking about. This is the only thread I have about dryers.

I don't know why people are getting so upset at each other. We are all trying to find the best products and this should be a great place to share experiences...including whatever research we have done. Instead, people seem to take it personally when someone states that the appliances they own have had notable problems. Can't we all just appreciate the fact that people are willing to share information? I sure do. Obviously no one can say which item is "the best". There is no "best". What is perfect for you might be horrible for someone else and vice versa. But we all gain from information.

I am very grateful to everyone for sharing what they know on this subject. I was afraid no one would comment at all and I would be left on my own. Times have certainly changed for me, if not for everyone. I am a lot more careful about spending money and I am a lot more concerned with things lasting. I know my money doesn't go as far as it used to, and I know things will be even tighter 10 years from now. I can't trust sales people when it comes to which machine is best, but I do pay attention when they talk about problems. I rely on real people like you all to let me know the truth.

I can't tell you how much I also appreciate the links to other sites that talk about which is best and why. I pride myself on being an excellent researcher, but it is hard to find all these articles. If we all posted everything we found that was useful in one place, I think it would save everyone a lot of time.

I really want you all to know how grateful I am for your postings.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

@JenniferHyatt, @asolo was referring to the fact that you posted the exact same message twice (one on Monday and then the exact same message on Tuesday).

One:
Posted by JenniferHyatt (My Page) on Mon, Oct 31, 11 at 3:28

Two:
Posted by JenniferHyatt (My Page) on Tue, Nov 1, 11 at 21:28

My mother has 3 cats and owns an LG front loader. She's never had a problem. Maybe her cats aren't as mischievous.

This is usually a great place to learn new things and swap information with others.

The problem is when certain posters take a "know it all attitude". You know the saying, "no one appreciates a know it all."

It's one thing to voice your opinion but to insist something is exactly how you say it is (especially when you have no real life experience) is annoying to those of us who do actually have real life experience (and plenty of it).

To continue to post negative comments when someone posts a positive one is not productive (and I'm sure not appreciated by the positive poster).

I could continue to post tons of positive reviews for every negative review/comment posted but it's waisted energy. Some people aren't here to exchange ideas, there here to convince others they are right.

Sadly, I have a family member like that. No one ever wants to have a discussion with her because it's never really a discussion - it's her trying to convince you of her position. It gets old fast.

Good luck with your search. I hope you find what you need. At the end of the day, we all have to make decisions based on our research and hope for the best.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

"""I don't know why people are getting so upset at each other. We are all trying to find the best products and this should be a great place to share experiences...including whatever research we have done. Instead, people seem to take it personally when someone states that the appliances they own have had notable problems. Can't we all just appreciate the fact that people are willing to share information? I sure do. Obviously no one can say which item is "the best". There is no "best". What is perfect for you might be horrible for someone else and vice versa. But we all gain from information.

I am very grateful to everyone for sharing what they know on this subject. I was afraid no one would comment at all and I would be left on my own. Times have certainly changed for me, if not for everyone. I am a lot more careful about spending money and I am a lot more concerned with things lasting. I know my money doesn't go as far as it used to, and I know things will be even tighter 10 years from now. I can't trust sales people when it comes to which machine is best, but I do pay attention when they talk about problems. I rely on real people like you all to let me know the truth.

I can't tell you how much I also appreciate the links to other sites that talk about which is best and why. I pride myself on being an excellent researcher, but it is hard to find all these articles. If we all posted everything we found that was useful in one place, I think it would save everyone a lot of time.

I really want you all to know how grateful I am for your postings.""
===========================================================

I agree with you completely, we seem to be pretty much the same, but they are only "upset at me" for pointing out the known flaws in the front loader design which for some reason they are pretty attached to almost like a religion.

I have only listed information that disagrees with their personal experience they have had with their particular FL.
For some reason they believe that to be a slam on them personally, Oh Well, not much I can do about that and listing reviews and articles is nothing more than that, just listing information.

I just research the hell out of what it is I buy nowadays because it is rather easy to do compared to decades ago.
The research I came up with to me at least is quite clear, hundreds of reviews from owners along with several articles from appliance repairmen show that FL washers have a design flaw in the bearings along with the seals and also mold issues.
That to me at least excludes FL washers as any thing I would buy especially since on average they are considerably more expensive on top of being "in general" less reliable.

If I only saw a very few reviews about mold, or very few about bearing failures and seal leaking etc then I could discount those to a degree because any and all machines no matter if FL or TL have duds and a bad machine here and there, but anybody that seriously researches TL Vs FL washers has to see that FL washers are definitely more prone to bearing failure, seal leaks and certainly Mold issues.
Its every where you look, the only way you could miss it is total denial of factual reality.

Anyway, I have decided to completely ignore a couple of posters, so anytime I see their name I just go right past the post and refuse to read it. Maybe they will calm down.

Good luck on your quest.

I will post back once we have the Dryer and give you a report on it.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

" ...the only way you could miss it is total denial of factual reality."

R U serious???

You wonder why I'm upset with you?? You always have a jerk comment that's why. Your post was doing fine until you threw that in. Either you don't realize you're being a jerk or you don't care.

Just further proof that anyone who doesn't see it your way is stupid. You get that is what you're saying when you post those comments right? You're smart enough to understand that right?

I'm not attached to my machine like a religion I just don't put much (if any) value in any of the articles you posted. You think I haven't seen that information?? You're ignorant.

I prefer front loaders but I'm not about to tell someone who just purchased an HE TL that I wouldn't touch one with a ten foot pole. I wouldn't touch one but I made that decision based on my personal needs. I'm not arrogant enough to keep shoving my reasons in others faces and telling them (over and over) if they can't see why HE TL are crap they must be stupid.

As long as you keep posting ignorant and rude comments I won't calm down (and I'm actually a very nice poster usually).

Trust that others agree you're ignorant; they just won't waste their energy on you.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

@livebetter and @asolo....I had no idea that posted twice. I didn't do it on purpose.

I am off to the store to go buy a dryer. Still not sure what I am going to buy. I will let you all know what I end up with. But, even I, the girl who never does laundry, finally has to do laundry. lol. Whatever I get will have to suffer through a ton of loads on its first day. I plan on getting the extended warranty too. I will let you all know what I end up with and how it works.

Wish me luck.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

Best of luck to you JenniferHyatt!
Please let us know all about your purchase.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

@georgect...thank you!

I went to Lowes to buy the dryer and they didn't have one in stock. They said it would take over a week or more to get it delivered. I didn't think I had to live with that. Turns out they had one in another Lowes so I ordered it from them. They have free delivery so it didn't matter to me which store delivered it. I didn't even have to drive to the other store, I just ordered it over the phone. I will be getting it tomorrow.

I ended up getting the the Whirlpool Cabrio WGD8600YW. I was going to get a lower model, but this one was on sale so it ended up being cheaper. MSRP was $1,099 and after all the sales and discounts I am getting it for $728. Still high, but not terrible. This model has steam, so I will let you know if I end up liking that feature. I actually got it because it had the larger drum: 7.6 cu. ft.

One other really stupid thing I ended up liking was the pretty chrome looking frame around the dryer door. Not sure if it is real chrome, but it is shiny. I like shiny. I know I know, totally ridiculous, but I like it.

The dryer has so many features I will have to read the manual just to figure out all the options. I hope I haven't bought a ton of problems. However, I am actually looking forward to doing my laundry. lol.

I bought the extended warranty for 4 years, so with the regular warranty that will bring it up to 5 years. Lowes also has a great policy that if I don't like the dryer in the next 30 days I can return it for a full refund. I will use all the extra options this machine has as often as I can during that time so if I don't like it I can switch models.

I will let you all know how it works and what I do and don't like about it.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

"One other really stupid thing I ended up liking was the pretty chrome looking frame around the dryer door."

Hey, something has to make you "happy" when you're doing laundry ;)

Let us know how it works out.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

Looks good Jennifer!
Best of luck...get that puppy installed and give us a report.
I'm excited for you this Saturday (delivery day).


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

Looks good, sounds like you did your homework and got exactly what you wanted and have a easy way out (30 day easy return policy) in case you get the proverbial lemon so cant beat that for peace of mind.

Good luck and report back


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

Got the dryer. Did a bunch of loads and I am still conflicted.

Here is my dryer...the Cabrio wgd8600yw: http://www.whirlpool.com/-[WGD8600YW]-1020627/WGD8600YW/

First of all the Cabrio Platinum dryer is HUGE! Large inside and also large on the outside. I measured how tall it was, and how wide it was, but I didn't think to measure how deep it was. Because of the extra capacity it is very deep too. I got lucky and it just fit in the space I had. The drum inside is the largest I have ever seen. I had a 7.0 dryer before and this looks much larger. Can easily fit a king comforter inside.

The dryer is very quiet.

The problem I have is that it seems to over dry the clothes...or it cools them down too much. I can't quite figure out what is going on. I hate ironing and have always been able to fold clothes quickly so that wrinkles don't set in. On this dryer however, it seems the tshirts come out of the dryer too wrinkled to smooth out with my hand. They have those little micro wrinkles...you know, the way tshirts look if you leave them in the dryer for hours. Not really big lines of wrinkles...just the cotton isn't smooth. Does anyone know what I mean...it is hard to explain.

I did find one thing that seemed to help...I dry the clothes on the less dry setting...then they are damp when the buzzer sounds. After that I blast them on high heat for a few minutes and take them out and fold them immediately. That seemed to help. But the jeans were really twisted up. I thought having a huge dryer would make it better for wrinkles not worse.

I tried the steam cycle this dryer claims to have and it didn't seem to do a thing. The clothes came out no different than if I had put them in a dryer with no steam. I suppose it might not be working. I will have to watch again. This dryer does have steam, but it doesn't have the wrinkle guard with steam setting some of the Cabrios have. I doubt that would make much of a difference, but maybe.

If I had paid a lot of money for this dryer I would probably send it back. It certainly hasn't worked better than my other dryers and I am really struggling with how to avoid the wrinkles. However, when they delivered it, it had a tiny scratch under the hinge they had to move because I wanted the door to open the other way. Thanks to that tiny scratch, they gave me another $150.00! This dryer ended up being only $550. If I trade it in for the lesser model, I will have to pay more! Plus, I don't know what is causing all that wrinkling. Could it be the difference between gas and electric? Is it this brand? Would they all be the same? I just know I used to be able to take the tshirts out of the dryer, smooth them with my hand and they looked as good as if I ironed them. Now, they look like I didn't fold them until the next day like a freshman in college. I will keep experimenting with settings, but this is annoying.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

I don't know if this may help but give it a try.


You can try lowering the temp. for the cycle selected and also try less dry.


"Wrinkle Guard" is added tumbling after the clothes are already dried. They tumble for a minute or two every five minutes when the cycle is done (so that wouldn't make a difference).


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

Nothing is straight forward anymore but I bet if you play around you will find the right combination to get the clothes to come out like you want them (I'm someone who doesn't iron either).

For the record I own an entry level front loader from Samsung (WF-1254) and I really like it so far (2 years next month). No smells, I don't wipeout the machine after I use it but I do find some water pools in the gasket so I give it a wipe - I don't find this to be a great burden. To each his\her own. I'm not one to prosthelytize but if it meets your needs I wouldn't dismiss a front loader as an option based on what someone else says they read on the internet (similarly I wouldn't get one purely based on another persons research either).


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

Jennifer.
We finally got our Washer and Dryer yesterday, have done 5 loads so far and could not be happier.
The Dryer is fantastic, huge, we just set it for whatever we are putting in it and it does the rest.
So far it hasn't used anything more than medium heat, we have dried a full load of towels and jeans, a king sized comforter, sheets, delicate's etc and everything to this point has come out virtually perfect and damn near wrinkle free. Also nothing has taken more than 40 minutes.
Everything has come out perfectly dry so far, not over dry at all, just "Al Dente" so to speak, could not have done better in any way.
We have not tried the steam function yet and frankly really don't care about it. We 'may" change our minds of course once we try it, it could be good for freshening up a raw silk shirt or something and getting the wrinkles out.

We actually wanted the 5100 washer and dryer but because they don't sell it in the Metallic color my wife wanted we ended up getting the WT5101H and because Sears has it mismarked saying right on all the literature that it comes in that color we complained a bit and they actually gave us an extra $200 off which basically made it the same price as the lower priced ones anyway.

The Washer is great, can't imagine a washer getting clothes any cleaner than this is.
I have watched a couple of loads all the way through, it uses plenty of water, just enough to cover the clothes, the agitation is pretty remarkable.
It really works nicely, will spin the clothes one way, spray the detergent water into the middle which pushes the water through the clothes as they spin, then will stop and spin the opposite direction doing the same thing.
It really works the clothes well in every direction.
The rinse is pretty good with just one rinse, haven't even seen the need to do 1 or 2 more rinses.

One thing it did on the second load which was a set of king size sheets plus 3 throw blankets, as it was getting ready to rinse it sensed the load was going to be off balance, so it stopped, then added water again, jiggled a bit, swished it one then the other slung it hard a couple of times each way to get the load balanced which worked.
It then started right back where it left off and started the rinse cycle and spun at 1100rpm with no problems.

First time I have seen a self correcting off balance before.

We are going to do a load of whites and VERY dirty rags and such tomorrow through the Sanitary cycle to check that out.

Both washer and dryer are very quiet and one thing that I absolutely love is the little tune it plays at the end.

Sooooo much better than our old dryer which was so annoying was a VERY load screeching buzzer that would last all the way through a whole set of commercials on TV, it seemed like it would never STFU.
My only regret is that I was not able to blast that buzzer with my shotgun before they hauled it away.
I m sure it is in the trash dump right now buzzing even not plugged in.

So as far as how they work, both are absolutely fantastic in every way, no complaints about anything.
Now if they will just last at least 10 years trouble free then we will have scored.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

Your Neptune TL has/had the same sort of auto balance correction. It tries to spin a few times, then refills and tumbles for a moment, drains and tries again. Fisher & Paykel agitator toploaders also have (optional) auto balance correction, same process, tries to spin up to three times (extracting a little more water each time), then refills & agitates, tries again. Both will stop and beep for help if spin still fails after the correction attempt.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

I never noticed the old Maytag doing it, although I doubt I would have known. I don't recall seeing any warning sign or beep or whatever like this one does.
It shows a message on the screen something like uE I believe it was which signifies that it is off balance and is trying to correct it, plus since the lid is glass I can see what it is doing.

I guess the old Maytag might well have had it though because it rarely did go out of balance I just never noticed it.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

Tried the Sanitary cycle yesterday.
Took 2:56, the water that comes in for the wash is at least very warm because the glass lid steamed up quite a bit.

It fills to the exact point to just barely cover the clothes each time, starts out swishing the clothes around briskly in both directions for several minutes then starts a very slow spin of just 25rpm and starts heating up the water.
About every 10-15 minutes it stops the slow spin and does the same hard agitation back and forth for several minutes then back to the slow spin.
I paused the machine and checked water temp at 1 hour (126 degrees) then at 2hours (155 degrees) I assume at some point it got to its target temp of 158, but it certainly worked.
It was hot enough to where it was literally raining inside dripping from the lid.
Everything came out nice and clean, set in stains from years of washing and drying were obviously still there but any new stains were all gone.
Comes out of the spin virtually dry.

So every cycle works so far, now just have to wait 10+ years to see about reliability.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

Every manufacturer making machines with on-board heaters has a "nominal" temperature target for various cycles that they publish. Usually they also publish within the same text "+/- 5 degrees" or something like that. If you say you're within 3 degrees of your machine's nominal target, I'd say everything's fine.

Glad you like the new machine. C'mon back after a few months of living with it and tell us what you think.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

Just a thought and question re the steam cycle not seeming to make a difference in wrinkling-is there a water hose connection to the dryer and did the installers attach it, or do you have to manually fill a water container somewhere in the dryer?


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

In ours it is a small container you fill with distilled water.

I will probably try it in the next few days, I have a couple of raw silk shirts that are both as wrinkled as I think it is possible for a shirt to get.

If it works on those 2 then it will work on anything.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

Yup. There is a water hose attached. Sadly, they had to take off the good metal hoses I had and attached rubber hoses for the steam feature. I was told never to use rubber hoses, but the installer said that is only for hot water, and the steam attachment goes into the cold water line from the washer.

I haven't done another load yet, so I can't report back yet. I am sure I will find a setting that works. It is just a matter of experimenting. But, it does dry fast!

Gosh Nunya...I don't think I could stand a 3 hour wash cycle! Good thing you don't have to use it very often. Did it make that much of a difference? I think I will be holding onto my old washing machine that doesn't cool down the hot water coming into it. My hot out of the tap water is pretty darn hot.

So glad you love your machines! Congrats! I am a little jealous, but I am sure I will find some settings that work for me. I haven't tried manual yet.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

I honestly didn't see any big difference in what we washed anyway. Yes everything came out clean as a whistle but so did everything washed on the normal cotton cycle that took 51 minutes.
We just wanted to use it to make sure that everything worked on the machine.

I guess if you were washing dirty cloth baby diapers or something then the extra hot (158 degrees) and super long wash might be worth it to you from a Disinfecting stand point, of course the bleach does than anyway but as far as regular washing of just dirty whites etc then just a normal wash in Hot wash cold rinse is more than adequate.

In fact we washed most loads 4 out of 6 in warm/cold and everything was fantastically clean and fresh.
So the standard wash is 51 minutes with one rinse which was fine, each added rinse was I believe 13 minutes or so extra.

Each full load now only takes 90 minutes or less from going into washer to coming out of dryer.
It used to take that long or MORE just for the dryer and 68 minute wash before so we are saving about 70 minutes per load from the old set.
Actually even more than that really because we always had to wait at least 30 minutes or more for the dryer to finish before we could put in another load.
So really saving about 100 minutes per load time wise.

Unless there is some odd reason the metal hoses do not fit then I think the installer fed a line O BS about the hoses.

We use the "Floodsafe" stainless braided lines, they have a automatic shutoff feature that in case a line blows or the washing machine malfunctions in anyway causing water to fly then the hose automatically shuts the water flow off.

I am going to install these on all our water fixtures soon.

Here is a link that might be useful: Floodsafe


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

The problem with the hoses, is that I needed a splitter and the installer said that so far, they don't make one of those in the metal hoses. I love the idea of those hoses you linked to, but I didn't see a splitter on there either. (The hose has to split the cold water line between the washer and the dryer...then I was able to add my metal braided lines to the splitter, but I don't like the rubber hoses on there at all.

I can't figure out what causes the clothes to come out wrinkled. Is it that the dryer is too hot? If so, I can use a lower setting. But I tried that and it didn't seem to make a difference. I have a hunch the problem is that the dryer cools things down too long. I wonder if the manual timer does the same. I put it on the less dry setting and the clothes still seemed wrinkled AND damp. I then put them on high heat for a few minutes and that seemed to work...once. I will try to recreate it and let you know.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

All you need is this then.
Then attach the regular stainless braided lines to that.

Link at bottom

Here is a link that might be useful: Hose Splitter


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

Well not sure about what is causing your to come out wrinkled.
I hear many times it is if the heat is too high and then if you don't take them out immediately.

Anyway I took 3 raw silk shirts that have been sitting in my closet since August because I haven't felt like ironing them and lately its been to chilly to wear them anyway.

Well they had EPIC Wrinkles with a capital W and have been wrinkled for 4 months.

I put them on the "Steamfresh" cycle, filled up the water with cold water from our fridge that is filtered.
Didn't change any settings or add any special anything, just turned it to steamfresh and threw the shirts in and hit the button.
Took 20 minutes, started out heating shirts up for about 3 minutes or so, then stopped and steamed, ran less than a minute and steamed and kept doing this for several minutes.
The last part I think it was 9 minutes was just drying.
So the shirts and the inside of dryer were dry when it sang its little tune.

Took out shirts, hung them on a hanger and I would say that wrinkles were diminished by probably 60-70% surprisingly.
Even in the book that comes with it it doesn't say it gets rid of wrinkles, just that it lessens them and there is a setting that leaves them damp to stop static and makes ironing easier.
I was actually surprised at how much it lessened the wrinkles out of shirts that have been sitting in the closet as wrinkled as they could possibly be for months.

Top picture is before, bottom is after and all I did was simply pull it out and hang it up. Not bad really.

Photobucket

Photobucket


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

Looks to me like the Steamfresh cycle will be very useful for a dry clean only shirt or blazer or my Linen pants to put them in and "freshen" them up, get out a few wrinkles and be able to wear them one more time before dry cleaning again.

Or also for a suit or what ever that has been sitting in the closet for a year and you just want them to smell fresh and maybe lessen those closet wrinkles so you can wear them without washing or dry cleaning.

Didn't particularly care about the "Steam" cycle on the dryer when we got it, but since we got it for about the same price as the cheaper one I can't complain and glad we ended up with this model instead.
Seems like the steam function will be useful on occasion.


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

Floodsafe hoses - I considered them but there are some disconcerting reports of them breaking that I would check out before deciding to use them. I thought the Floodchek ones sounded like the best bet but I can't find them in my area.

Here is a link that might be useful: floodchek


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RE: Need help choosing a dryer. Frozen into inaction.

Floodchek hoses available from the site. Not surprised you couldn't find locally. I've never yet found them at any retail store. Internet site works fine. Advise also getting the bronze goose-neck fittings for each end. I have them at two locations. Highly recommended.


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