OK I got my 2277 yesterday and started trying it out. I had picked up the ALL Stainlifters Free and Clear HE and it did a very good job. I had some Kirkland HE stuff and figured I woudl try that even though some said it is very sudsey. Well using the Krkland dose for a HE machine it sudsed like crazy and added proabbly 20-30 minutes to the wash time because it had to keep rinsing the suds. So the Kirland is out and I will use ALL and proabbly order up some Persil this week to try. I was very pleased witht he ALL results, the whites seemed bright and the clothes were clean with no residue or any type of detergent feeling.

I have a dumb question, I am going to try the Persil, but looking further I see they recommend that for whites and light colors and then Megapersil for dark colors. Is anyone using just Persil on light and dark colors? And has anyone compared both of them, is there that much of a difference?

Thanks!

The regular Persil contains a bleaching agent and optical brighteners. The colour varients do not contain either. If you only want to spend the money on one, I would get the regular Persil powder for your whites and lights and a less expensive detergent(check out the latest CR for the ones that contain less optical brighteners)for your darker colours. I have noticed that if you use too much of the regular Persil it will fade darker clothes. Remember with these products much less is more. I don't use any more than a 1/4 cup(in my Bosch 6400), some on this list use less. If you want to buy both I recommend the colour liquid over the megaperls, you can pretreat with it and it dissolves better at cooler temps.Again you only need around a capful or less. Hope this helps, Todd

Jon

I have been using the Ariel and Persil with a small amount of STPP. So I will need to do loads with just the detergent to really compare them against each other as far as white socks go. I will let you know.

Question for Persil users: Will the enzymes in regular Persil powder work as well in a regular Hot (130F) wash as they do in profile wash? I keep reading about enzymes working best in cool to warm water yet I see a lot of posts re. use with hot water temps. Is everyone using a profile cycle or equivalent to allow the enzymes to work first in cool/warm water or is anyone going straight to a Hot fill?

I have the new Short Wash Formula ("mit KurzWasch Formel"TM) which is illustrated by a picture of a clock face that seems to indicate a forty minute cycle starting with cool water gradually heating to hot.

A 130F wash is a warm wash by European standards; some Euro machines can exceed 200 degrees.

Ill have to try to purchase Persil again elsewhere. I ordered from ABT electronics because of their free shipping. They sent me an email and said they cant accept my credit card because the issuing bank is out of country. Well I dont know where ABT is located but may bank is in Lawton Oklahoma. I guess they suffer from ineptitude there so I will try elsewhere. :(

I did get a tub of STPP from The Chemistry Store, who had NO Problem using my credit card... LOL Oh well such is life.

I guess Ill have to pay shipping to get Persil.

Eliz

I use the MEGAPERLS for white and MEGAPERLS for colours versions of PERSIL and it is the short wash formula and I use the short wash on most loads except very heavy soiled whites.
My machine usually takes about 49 minutes for temps of 105 to 120 but sometimes will increase the time to 55 if I chose a higher temp. Timing is sometimes deceptive because the machine will hold the time countdown if it needs to and perhaps others do as well.
As far as I can tell I am not sure the machine starts straight away at a high temp when I select it. I think it mixes some cold with the hot even when I select a higher temperature and then it eventually heats the temp to high.
Even so in the short program the wash is not long maybe 20 minutes so I mean how long can the heating last? But the short formula persil does a good job.
As for enzymes I think that they are effective on stains and if you have a stain then you want to start with cold and move to warm or hot so that would be a profile type wash. Starting with warm and moving to hot may work also.
In any case I think the new engineered enzymes can work in hot water. I think the MEGAPERSL contains multiple types of enzymes that work on different soil types. One other thing is that I think the MEGAPERls for colours contains a dye transfer inhibitor to help prevent colors from running onto other fabrics. It's late at night/early in the morning and I am thinking too much--I'm going to bed.

Cimberlie,
When I look in CR's online ratings, Tide Coldwater got "excellent" for brightening. What's going on?
Andrea

Sorry Cimbeerlie,
When tested with cold water, it got "good" for brightening, and when tested in hot water it got "excellent" for brightening. I am still a bit afraid to use it on colors, shouldn't I be?
Andrea

Eliz always, how do you like the Persil "Kurz-Wasch-Formel"? What temperature did you use?

KT, I like it...smells great...so far I've only used it for profile-type washes starting at ~100F and finishing up anywhere from 112F to 153F depending on cycle chosen.

Andrea2

Have only used Tide CW on mainly whites, lights and colourfast items. Launder dark clothing with Cheer Free powder so cannot say for sure if Tide will affect darker colours. So far the few "dark" things have laundered in Tide CW have come out well, but just so you know Tide CW does contain OBA and some sort of bleaching agent. Think for light colours and colourfast laundry you should be fine, especially if using cool, cold or warm water. Darker items may be ok the once,but wouldn't make a habit of laundering them in Tide CW. Again only my opinion, YMMV.

As for CR's testing and the fact Tide CW got higher marks for brightening in warmer to hot water, can only assume certian chemicals in the product are activated more the warmer the wash temp.

C.dS

OK here is what I have tried, I had the Costco Kirland HE stuff that worked great in my TL, but way too many suds int he FL so it is history. I did pick up some ALL Free and Clear Stainlifters HE which is working well, low suds, and seems to rinse out ok. I did pick up some of the Sears Oxi-clean powder HE that I will try next and am debating trying the Persil. Seems I can get the Persil for $44 online or local, so the difference will be the local tax.

FordTech, there are other places that sell Persil online with free shipping, but there may be a certain dollar amount you have to purchase to get the free shipping. When I wanted to try Persil, I did a search and compared a few places. I ordered from the place I've linked below and had no problems with the transaction. NAYY. I'm sure you could find other places as well to order from online.

Lisa

Here is a link that might be useful: Factory Direct Superstore for Persil

I also ordered Persil products from Factory Direct. Very easy company to deal with.

Bruce

Thanks. Actually I was indeed able to purchase from another place, TotalVac.com. It was free shipping with a 50 dollar purchase, so I only had to add a small 4 dollar item and got the free shipping. Heck they even take Paypal.. :)

Thanks again

Just FYI. If you decide to purchase Persil from TotalVac.com, it takes about 2 weeks to recieve the package if not longer. Poor customer support (never recieved a reply from them). Most of thier reseller ratings state they are slow as molasses shipping. If you are in a hurry they arent the ones to get it to you. FYI

Is there any difference between Mexican Ariel and UK Ariel?

Note in my other post that Persil is now available from Amazon.com.

KitchenObsessed -

There is a HUGE difference between Mexican Ariel and UK Ariel. There is also a US version of the Ariel, and is by far the underperformer of the bunch.

UK Ariel contains oxygen bleach, OBA (Optical Brighteners) and enzymes. The UK Ariel is a white powder with small bule "balls" for lack of a better word. These are lower-sudsing as they are designed for front-loaders, and do a great job.

Mexican Ariel does not contain oxygen-bleach, but it DOES contain phosphates, which makes it very popular with many members here. Mexican Ariel is like a light blue (maybe more of a turqouise-color) and has blue "balls" as well. Mexican Ariel (like most other Mexican laundry and cleaning products) is highly scented, and can be a bit overpowering, especilly when using large amounts in a TL.

The US version comes in a box, and looks more like Tide with Bleach. It does not contain phoshpates, which by P&G standards appartently makes it "legal" to sell in the US. There is a "note" on the box of US Ariel that says it is not for sale outside of the Continental US. Apparently P&G does not want those outside of the US to confuse P&G's detergents with something that ACTUALLY CLEANS properly. P&G also has clearly marked on the package of Mexican Ariel, however, that it is not INTENDED for sale inside the Continents US.

If you woud like any more information, pleae let me know.

Tex

So Tex (or anyone else who cares to chime in), does Mexican Ariel + OxyClean = UK Ariel in effectiveness? I don't read Spanish, but since there is another Mexican Ariel for colors, I had assumed the regular Ariel has optical brighteners and oxygen bleach.

BigTexMan wrote:

"Mexican Ariel does not contain oxygen-bleach, but it DOES contain phosphates, which makes it very popular with many members here."

Both of the Mexican versions I have say "OxiAzul" on the package. Is this not an oxygen bleach? If not, do you know what it means? Thanks :-)

Bruce

Quick question, so I see the Persil Pwder so I am leaning toward trying ot for my whites and light colors, but then they offer the Persil Megaperls Color for Dark colors? Does it come as highly recommended by the experts here as the regular powder?

RE: Mexican Ariel "OxiAzul"

I have several bags of Ariel and each seems to say something different on the front...lol

However, I looked on that website, Babel Fish Translation, to try and translate OxiAzul and it came back as... Oxi Blue, lol, whatever that is supposed to mean.

I did notice for the first time though, that my bags of Ariel all say suds suppresser on them in the ingredients. I never use more than 2 or 3 Tablespoons for fear of a suds-lock. It just suprised me to see suds suppresser listed.

Lifesabeach

Mex Ariel is loaded with bleach, enzymes, phosphates and FRAGRANCE. Phewey-stinky! Look for Viva (con Perlas Activas) for something just as good but more agreeable to the nose!

I have been very pleased with UK Persil tablets. The
original formula with bleach, enzymes and phosphates is excellent. The Colour tabs are not quite as good, but good enough for jeans and deep colors. The Colour tabs are also a bit more sudsy and stronger scented than the original tabs. They have a very fresh, fruity scent.

I also have boxes of UK Ariel tabs in both original and colour formulas, but want to get thru the Persil first.

Here is a link that might be useful: British Corner Shop

Ariel really stinks in the package. When I got mine in the mail, DH said he could smell it as he pulled up to the mailbox. Smelled up his whole work van. Clothes have next to no smell after washing. Great cleaner but IMO not worth the shipping for me. I'll stick with my Sears.

In the Frigemore FL, I use 1-1/2 tbsp of Tide Free Powder, plus 1/2 tsp STPP and 1/2 or 1 tsp sodium percarbonate. Then i fill the bleach and fabric softener trays with white vinegar (i think that's about 2 liquid ounces each).

In my view, having some suds in the wash isn't a real problem, which is why I use regular detergent instead of HE.

Well I've been using the Tide CW for the past several weeks in my HE3t and must say it performs great! I usually use 3 to 4 ounces (the plastic Oxi-clean scoops) of Tide CW with either cold or warm selected and Heavy Duty or Normal Casual for most loads. For the purpose of testing Tide CW's performance I haven't been using the Stain Treat option either. If the white loads are unusually soiled, I'll add an ounce of White King too. But for the most part, I've been using three ounces with medium sized loads with great results. Greasy food stains still need pretreatment like with all the other brands of detergents I've used, including Persil. The Shout Action Foamer works the best at getting out these stains. I can only find it at Walmart in the 1 lb 4 oz cans and lasts a long time since I only need a tiny bit on greasy stains.

So far I've used the Tide CW on white and color-fast loads with no fading noted on the colors. I've even cut down from the extra rinse and have been using the default two rinse selection. The Tide CW seems to rinse out well. As an aside, I've also noticed clothes are much softer after drying with almost no softener used for some unknown reason.

I think I could easily use Tide CW as my main laundry detergent. I forgot to mention I'm ONLY using the powdered version of Tide. Liquids never really have provided much performance for me. I tried a liquid sample and it foamed unbelievably. The powdered version is much more forgiving with suds formation and at the same time seems more concentrated over the liquid version.

Bruce

Finally got the Persil after 2 weeks wait. I mixed it all thoroughly with STPP at 3 parts Persil to 2 parts STPP. Plan to use it at 1/4 cup per load as mixed. Should be right around 290 normal loads if it works out as planned.

FordTech,

I will be interested in hearing how your pricey concoction works out as well as which Neptune cycles you are using.

I've taken to using the warm wash/warm rinse, "light soil" and "stain treat" options for most loads on the Neptune 6500. It provides a 20-minute 105F wash, a 105F first rinse, two cold rinses and then a lukewarm (80F?) final rinse. It won't get me any energy star awards but it sure works great.

While browsing around I found a Dept of Energy study that involved replacing regular washers with Neptunes in a Boston condo building and measuring the energy savings. If you're like me and think that the Consumer Reports articles have been dumbed down to the point of being useless this report is the exact opposite. It's a few years old, but was still interesting (at least to me.)

Here is a link that might be useful: Boston Washer Study

290 loads from one package doesn't sound pricey at all. It's been our experience as well that Persil is cheaper than supermarket quality detergents as one needs so little for perfect results.

I use persil for my colors and ariel oxyazul for my whites.'
1 tbsp each. Azul means blue in spanish and although we have many taquerias(mexican supermarkets) here I buy it in the regular grocery store for about 2.00 for 3 kilos(6.6 lbs)
I have never seen the viva here but other detergents are readily available. what i do have trouble finding now is 20 mule team borax, or any borax for that matter.
k

K,
Which Persil do you use for colors?
Andrea

I use the persil megaperls colour.
k

I use ALL Powder or ALL Free & Clear Powder for everything and both do a great job with very little sudsing. 1 T for regular loads, plus 1 t in the pre-wash when using a prewash (I always use a pre-wash for whites). I have a 2 cubic foot euro-sized front loader/combo. If your machine is bigger, you may need to use more ALL than I do (or less if you have soft water).

I've tried Tide HE, but got way too many suds and it also didn't rinse out as well as ALL. In place of fabric softener, I use about 1 t of White Vinegar. Fabric Softener gunks up the dispenser and may have been the culprit of lint build up on my impeller motor in my combo machine. I live in Chicago where we have very hard water. That may also have been the culprit. Interestingly, the manual for my new machine says to run an empty load with a deliming agent once in a while if you live in an area with hard water to cut down on mineral deposits on the machine.

For those of you thinking of buying PERSIL from ABT Electronics, I can tell you they are a very reputable appliance and electronics store in the suburbs of Chicago. They have been in business and have had a great reputation since I can remember being alive and I am 42. They are very customer service oriented and the founder walks the sales floor himself and has a cubicle with all of the other employees. They don't respond to e-mail very well, but if you call them, you get a live person very quickly and they are very helpful.

Happy washing to all!

Well, it turns out I have been OVERDOSING with my Persil Powder. I was using 3 TBSP in the main wash along with 1 TBSP of White King. It turns out that the detergent was not rinsing out! While there were VERY FEW suds evident during the wash, you could see a white sheet of detergent streaming down the door during the final spin at 1000RPM - even after 4 low-level rinses.

I am such a fanatic about white whites, I wanted to make sure that I was using enough to get the desired results. I am now only using 1 1/2 TBSP in the main wash. I did two white loads last night with this new dosage and had SUPERIOR results. Amazing.

Tex

I did my first Persil load last night. Still kinda edgy about using a small amount of detergent. I loaded it with 6 pairs of blue jeans and two of my Ford technician jackets which were grease stained, dirty, etc. I used two 1/4 cup scoops of my Persil Stpp blend which equaled 5 tablespoons of Persil and 3 tablespoons of stpp. This was in my full sized Maytag Neptune 7500 which uses a lot more water than say a Miele.

I stopped the wash after 5 mins just to look in to see how much suds I had. There were no suds at all that I could see. Hot wash and 3 cold rinses.
Final results were great. The two greasy grimey work jackets were sparkling clean as well as the all the jeans. Next task will be one scoop with a normal wash.

Two scoops? Persil ain't Raisin Bran!

I'll bet you'll find no more than 2TBS Persil does a perfect job in your large machine, and I wouldn't be surprised if you get excellent results with even less, depending on your water hardness and how filthy your clothes might be.

Well I know even for the huge load I ran and as dirty as it all was, they still had a pretty strong Persil fragrance left at the end. It was near as strong as they smell when I use Downy. So that was definetly too much I would think if it left that strong a fragrance. Im just getting a feel for it right now. The Stpp probably softened what hard water I have anyway.

Wow, that's a lot to read! But, I still didn't see one thing. How much Tide HE liquid should someone use in a FL machine? (We have a Kenmore HE4). We've been using 1/2 of the scoop that came with the bottle, but that's just a guess, and I don't want to be wasting detergent!

I conducted a test this weekend pitting Tide HE powder against Persil. For raw cleaning power, you can't beat Tide HE. However, if allergies are your concern or you suffer from sensitivity issues, Persil does rinse cleaner and with almost no residual scent.

You'll encounter some people who will claim Persil to be some kind of miracle detergent, but honestly it's just a big waste of money unless you are married to its other qualities -- less scent, better rinsing. In my test, Tide HE outcleaned Persil hands-down, and Persil even contains oxy bleach which gives it an unfair advantage that was not realized in my tests.

Anyone who prefers Persil for its "superior" or "amazing" cleaning ability is just fooling themselves, in my opinion. I welcome those people to conduct a test of their own to show how well Persil cleans versus the leading domestic brand.

Step up.

Here is a link that might be useful: Tide HE vs. Persil Test Results

Mielemiele,
You mentioned a liquid detergent holder for the Miele... do you really need to have this in the detergent holder in order to use liquid detergent in a Miele?
Thanks.

When I use liquid in my Miele, I just pour it into the dispenser without any liquid detergent holder & it's fine. However, the liquid detergent holder is needed if you use a programme with a pre wash and wish to use liquid detergent for the mainwash - otherwise the liquid will flow down into the prewash cycle prematurely.

Jon

[* Posted by spewey (My Page) on
Wed, Nov 9, 05 at 18:13

>Persil Sensitiv is supposedly dye and perfume free, but that doesn't mean it's unscented. You may still be smelling the chemicals.

>Regular ole Persil contains no chemical fragrances, but lanalool, a natural rosemary extract, and that's what gives Persil its vague scent. (Though this is puzzling, since "Persil" means "parsley" in French and yet it smells like rosemary.)]

Even more puzzling:

The product is called "Persil" only in SOME countries, and Fance isn't one of them! In France, it's called "Le Chat" (the cat), and in Italy, it's called "Dixan", but it's all the same Persil PowerGel.

I love the sent. I think it's really nice.

David

we are getting excllent results with huge tub o' Sears HE - 1T/load in our 1 month old Bosch Nexxt 500. I have been a longtime user of Kirkland He powder - have gotten great results as well. Amazing machine - I have washed almost everything in the house over the past month b/c the texture of sheets, towels & clothes is SOOO improved after going through this set with good ole boring cheap Sears (bought mongo 31+lb tub on sale for 1/2 price - under 10$ LOL). What's really funny is this tub advertises 275 loads with their scoop - we use less than a 1/4 scoop/load!

Quixtar/Amway SA8 with BioQuest HE soap powder
This is the #1 detergent in the January 2007 Consumer Reports magazine.

Bi-O-Kleen premium is very good. It does a better job on my whites than Tide HE, uses on 1 tablespoon per load. I'm not generally into "green," bought this stuff on a whim and I'm glad I did.

Unfortunately, kenmorewasher, that detergent is made by the awful Amway company. I wouldn't recommend a product from such a company at all.

Jon

Sears Ultra Plus with OxiClean HE soap powder
It performed nearly as well as the Quixtar/Amway SA8 with BioQuest HE soap powder in the January 2007 Consumer Reports magazine.