I followed the instructions (and member's advice) very closely. First load I did was with some small clean towels and rags, 2 scoops of Charlie's and I used very warm water. I was surprised to see TONS of suds. I did this 3x, and by the 3rd wash, there were very little suds during the wash and rinse cycles.

I've done 2 loads of laundry, and while my clothes feel clean (although have NO smell at all...I did know in advance though that Charlie's was zero scent), they do not feel soft, and some gym clothes do not smell fresh and laundered.

The MAIN REASON I HATE CHARLIE'S is that the beautiful Honeycomb, Stainless Steel drum of my NEW ($2000.00) Miele washing machine is dull, streaked and looks awful. I'm running a 2nd rinse and spin with distilled white vinegar, and I really hope this helps. I know it's purely aesthetics, but the Miele Honeycomb Stainless drum is actually beautiful & now it looks terrible! I haven't had my washer 2 months now, and I'm going to be so mad & sad if Charlie's "wonder, miracle" soap changed the finish of my Miele Stainless drum!!

Sorry for the rant, I'm just really upset!!

After 2 rinses with vinegar and hot water...the stainless is looking better. Not 100% yet, but I'm going to do a few more loads of laundry with German Persil Liquid or Arm & Hammer he Liquid and fabric softener and then another rinse with vinegar! Frustrating, and I feel I flushed $ down the drain with ordering Charlie's :(

Everytime I try a expensive or fancy detergent...I am disappointed. Yes, Persil is very $$ in the USA, but it lasts long and I like the almost all of Europe swears by it, as well as my beloved Germany!

I've copied the following from their website. Let us know how things turn out for you.

-------

"If you're not completely satisfied, Sutherland Products will, but not gladly, refund the buyer's purchase price."

send an email to taylor@charliesoap.com
or call Taylor at 800-854-3541.

BTW, there are many different types of stainless steel. Some are more stain-less than others. None are stain-free.

Have the same complaint with Charlies.

The stainless looked great for a while, but after several
bags of Charles the shine was gone and a white dulling film appeared on the finish. After several loads with vinegar in the wash and rinse the stainless steel was restored to a nice shine.

I found the product aged clothing in appearance -especially cotton polo shirts and did not remove
staining from anti-perspirants.

I think the product is over priced and praised for the
results.

I also, find the Persil product line superior - at least
color Megaperls doesn't deteriorate/age garments in my opinion

Sorry you didn't like the product, but the people from Charlie's Soap are anything BUT arrogant and rude. They are very friendly, helpful, and willing to look into any problem you are having with your laundry. The refund policy is meant to be tongue in cheek, meaning they will refund your money, but not gladly because obviously that means you were unhappy with their product. They have a great sense of humor that I guess is lost on some people.

My several loads with Charlies made my clothes look dull, fuzzy and dry (we do not have hard water, had it tested when our Miele Dishwasher was installed 2 years ago).

Rudin1969, yes I have tried the entire line of Miele Care (for washers and dishwashers). While it is not bad, Persil is much, much better. Smelled better, removed stains and odors better and my clothes looked better with Persil. I'd take Miele care any day over Charlies though!!

My Stainless finally looks almost back to normal. 2 loads with Persil and Fabric softener and 2 cycles with white distilled vinegar.

Yes, in a perfect world we'd all use some "natural" product like Charlie's with no bad chemicals or fragrance. With all the chemicals we breathe from Diesel, Gas, jet fuel, the chemical sunscreens we slather ourselves with daily, the hairsprays and colognes we all use....I think using a nicely scented laundry soap and fabric softener is totally ok. I do not want my clothes smelling blah and feeling crispy...and I don't want my Miele washer all white and dull on the inside!!

Persil Color Gel for darks and colours and Persil Universal Gel for whites. Downy, Snuggle or Purex fabric Softener. Btw, Purex is made by Henkel...the makers of Persil. Purex FS is SO cheap in the USA, and smells great, and it's not as thick and coating as Downy!!

While Tide he Powder is not one of my favourites (although I love and hate the smell at the same time:), I'd use Tide he Powder any day over Charlies.

Honestly, I feel Charlie's is a "down home goodness" version of the super expensive NYC The Laundress. Great website, shining testimonials, and hook, line and sinker.

For now at least, I will stick with my ever faitful Persil liquid and nice, scented Fabric softener (and sometimes even dryer sheets too). I'm sure that made the people at Charlie's just squirm in their seats :)

Unscented is fine, but Charlie's does NOT work. Overhyped rubbish. But, just my opinion :)

I'm honestly happy that Charlie's works for some, but I am also happy to see it is just not me, that really dislikes it. Actually I hate it!

Oh, the Stainless Honeycomb drum in my new Miele W4840 washer is now 100% back to normal. Many loads with persil and then vinegar rinses, has removed whatever coating and discolouring Charlie's did to the drum. I am very relieved and happy. Love, love, love Persil!!!

I also worked with a guy that his wife used April scent Downy and that was all you could smell when you were around him. They must be immune to the smell??

do you have hard water? Hard water and soap usually form a white, sticky residue. I don't know what it is called in English, but if I translate it would be something like lime-soap. It's a natural by-product of soap dissolved in hard water. I see this very often when I'm at my girlfriend's house: they have hard water and when I use a bar of soap to wash my hands, there is always a white residue left behind in the sink. Like powder. It does not happen when I use liquid soap, though. It because, I think, liquid soap does not contain soap as such but mainly surfactants - like regular laundry detergent. If you do speak German: I have linked the explanation of this "lime-soap" at the bottom of the post.

Mechanical scrubbing and/or acid get rid of the white/dull residue.

It's so crazy how expensive Persil is in the U.S.! It's almost cheaper to have it send by mail from Germany. A regular box of Persil sells for around $8 over here.

Greetings from Deutschland!

Der Rückstand ist jetzt schon weg. 2-3x mit Essig, und Persil. Wieder danke!

Since then, I've been using the Arm & Hammer powder and whatever they've put in that stuff leaves absolutely no film. Pretty impressive for 20 grains hardness water.

I do like Ariel in Germany. The Ariel that's available in the USA, is the Mexican version...and I do not like it. Too strongly scented, and way, way too much sudsing. I found out that Mexicans love suds in their wash (Foca, Roma, Viva and Mexican Ariel).

I am curious to see how you like LeBlanc. Maybe you've found a treasure. In the meantime I will continue paying crazy amounts for Persil, and dreaming of the Ariel and cheap Persil you Euros get to enjoy!!

Not fair, the stuff we get in the USA is so inferior. Tide vs. Persil. Mercedes vs. Chevrolet. Miele vs. Whirpool. :)

I don't think Charlie's is the be all and end all but I do use it for certain types of loads and like the way it cleans and smells. What you may have been experiencing with all the suds on the first 3 initial washes was the locked in suds in the towels from the detergent you were using before. It is amazing how much suds can get locked into fabric after repeated washings. The dullness of you interior finish could have been caused from all the residue the Charlie's got out of your towels. It would have probably went away with repeated Charlie's washings. You mentioned using fabric softener. FS is notorious for causing excessive build up not only in clothes but on the insides of washers. It's possible that the Charlie's brought out the hidden residue in the nooks and crannies of your washer. There is no ingredient in Charlie'S that will harm stainless steel. Call Charlie's and talk to Taylor, despite their blurb on their bag, they are very friendly and very helpful. They have sent me replacement bags for seeming minor problems. Also, the liquid works better for many people.

Hi sshrivastava
if I recall correctly, you've mentioned using Le Blanc detergents. Did you like them? Sorry to hijack this thread :)

Hi Rudin1969,

My friend sent me a small bottle of Le Blanc Linen Wash as a gift and I loved it. Based on that experience, I purchased several other Le Blanc products - Towel Wash, Laundry Wash, and Silk Wash. I am disappointed in the other products. While the Towel Wash does leave towels clean and soft, it also leaves them with an extremely strong perfume smell even after 7 rinses in my Asko on high water level. This is using only 1 TBS of the Towel wash when the recommended dose on the bottle is 1/4 cup! The products seem to clean well enough, but I would only recommend them to someone who doesn't mind their clothes smelling of perfume. It's not even a clean, lightly scented smell like Persil. Your clothes come out smelling like you sprayed perfume on them. I walked into my bathroom the other day and was wondering what that smell was when I realized it was the towels acting as air fresheners. Too heavy for me.

I am with Deutsch100 regarding Charlie's Soap and most detergents that I've tried. I was a happy CS user for a while but noticed a funky, musty odor creeping into all of my clothes especially sweatpants, sweatshirts, etc. It doesn't clean as well as most claim. What's funny is that folks say you need to use CS for a month or so, or go through your first bag before you start noticing improvements. Is that because it takes you that long to form a new habit and also for your brain to con itself into thinking that what it's looking at is "clean"? Seriously, it happened to me. After a while I thought this is how clean clothes look until I pulled out my old box of Persil and did a load just for kicks after reading this thread. Funky musty smell is gone, clothes appear cleaner and are soft coming out of the dryer without any mysterious "residue".

Everyone has different experiences and if a specific product works for you then I think that's great. I'm of the opinion that a laundry detergent should remove a stain on the first wash, not take several washes. CS would fade stains, but not remove them entirely, and it would take several washes to achieve this result. I used Bi-O-Kleen Premium Powder for a while and was happy with that, but I also experienced the "funky" clothes smell and thought I had a mold problem. The Bi-O-KLEEN without a doubt does clean better than CS. I live in Arizona where the air is very dry, I leave the door ajar, and I never had odor issues when using Persil or Tide. I put my Asko through regular cleaning cycles at 205F using dishwasher detergent. I have a whole house water softener as well, so the CS dysfunction is not due to hard water. I believe CS was originally designed to clean fabrics for textile companies, and that is the same formula we are buying but in smaller packages. When you think about it, there are no stains on fabrics before they are made into clothes. You need very gentle cleaning for those types of fabrics. Home laundering has different needs and requirements than textile companies. While this is just speculation on my part, it makes sense.

Several years ago I posted in this forum about how Tide cleans just as well as Persil for far less cost. I even did a cleaning comparison and posted photos. I had a lot of time on my hands back then! :) I'm much picker about my detergents today, and having gone through so many I'm much more aware of my likes and dislikes. I was also a regular FS user back then, but not today. Contradicting what I said three years ago, I believe Persil is probably the best option for people who want a product that cleans well, doesn't leave an objectionable scent or leave your clothes smelling "funky", and rinses cleanly so you get soft and fluffy clothes out of the dryer without the need for FS. One of the more ludicrous claims made by CS, I must admit, is that it takes several washings - up to a month's worth - before all of the "residue" from your previous detergents is removed. This claim is so illogical. If there was so much buildup in your clothing that it would take multiple washings to remove this buildup, your clothes would be stiff as a board and unwearable. I'm still trying to understand this one. I admit that I don't completely understand the chemistry and processes involved, but it's counter intuitive.

I ordered two 54 load boxes of Persil last night - Megaperls and Megaperls Color. I still have some leftover Persil from (believe it or not) 6 years ago which I will use up before my new shipment arrives. It was the box that came with my Asko. I suppose that's proof for how much experimenting I've been doing with laundry products. I can't wait to once again have clean, fresh smelling clothes.

Cheers!

The Megaperls are pretty great. I've tried Megaperls Color, and it is very, very gently. So great for color retention...not very good at underarm odors (especially from gym, or sport clothing). The Persil Color Gel is amazing at odors, even underarm funk. The old, original Persil Universal Powder, I find is equally good for whites, but I always buy Persil Universal Gel. My family in Germany, also does not like Megaperls Color, but loves the color gel/liquid. If I can find it, there was a comparison against the Megaperls and the Gel...and the Gel won hands down (for the color, that is). Report ist auf Deutsch, Kannst du Deutsch? :)

I am EXACTLY like you...I have tried almost every laundry detergent I can get my hands on, and I ALWAYS return to Persil (although I really love the Gel/Liquid opposed to the powder).

Fabric Softener is not as evil as so many believe. Try mixing you favourite FS with equal amounts of white, distilled vinegar (my alltime fav is April Fresh Downy). You get the benefits of both, and there is NO buildup in the machine or clothes. It's been a win-win for me.

Best offer USA: Amazon.com sells a Jumbo-Pack Persil Universal Powder for $62.99 / 80 wash loads. That's 78 Cents per load. The smaller boxes/sizes seemed to be more expensive.

German offer from a regular drugstore: A pouch of Persil Megapearls for $6 / 18 wash loads. That's 32 Cents per load. Interestingly, the bigger boxes were more expensive. *?!*

That being said, I actually use German Ariel detergent all the time and Lenor softener, both of which are P&G products. I also stopped using liquid detergent - not because I think it clogs up my washer, no - but because they never did well on "Stiftung Warentest" (our consumer magazine).

Deutsch100, I can send you a copy of the detergent test if you like. Just send me an e-mail via my profile (can't upload it here because of copyright etc.).

Alex

Deutsch100, don't get mad at me but I think you have been a little over sensitive to Eligan's response to your comments. You should have expected such responses from people on here that use and like CS especially when you use such a strong term as "Hate"! I didn't see Eligan's posts as an "Attack" against you.

lola3816

People at Charlie's have tried to help me and have been very nice, but there are just some issues that can not be over come. It's not their fault. It's not the detergents fault. It just is what it is. I still love Charlie's and it still does great for many things here, but if it didn't work for you I'm not gonna beat ya up over it even if it worked perfect for me or someone else.

I have always been of a mind that people should use what makes them happy, what works for them is what they should use. If the Persil works for you babe then by all means you should use it.

It does make you realize though that we, here in the US, are getting screwed a little bit. You look at detergents in the UK and across Europe and they have all these low suds choices for high efficiency washers to chose from and we hardly have any. Maybe it's time for a little detergent revolt here in the US. LOL!

In fact, we just had a drain problem. (I washed fuzzy dog toys that fell apart in the washer.) The drain was also spotless, except for the fuzz. But all the plastic parts were super clean.

Have you contacted Charlie's Soap? Even if you don't keep the product, they have excellent customer service.

I purchased Charlie's Soap in the past and I am still using it but not on all of my clothes. It works fine for some of my more lightly worn clothing and for the darks, towels and bed linens. I do not like it for my whites or my gym/hiking clothes. It just does not do the job on them with removing ground in dirt. I figure that is the trade off with a more "natural" style detergent. I have had the same issues when I tried homemade laundry soap and others like Planet and Seventh Generation. It is what it is.....

Will I buy Charlie's again? I don't know, maybe? But I am not too picky about my detergents. I usually buy what is on sale and I use bleach in my white loads to keep my clothes from going dingy. I hang my laundry year round and in the summer I am sure to hang those whites in the sunshine to keep them as bright as can be. I pre treat stains and I do what I can. I just think that these days detergents don't work as well as they used to since they were reformulated.

After even being somewhat disappointed by Tide and all the name brands as they are not as effective as they once were, I have resolved to use whatever I find on sale. Some brands do a little better than others but not enough to pay extreme costs to ship detergent from Europe (I lived in France for a decade and remember Skip, Ariel and others). The main issue I have with Charlie's is that it doesn't remove odors from gym clothing or even perfume that was sprayed on the clothes. This is in addition to using vinegar. However, your mileage may vary. I live in a very soft water area.

So I alternate with what is on sale. Right now in my laundry cupboard there are 12 boxes/bottles of detergent ranging from Sun, Costco brand, Arm & Hammer, Gain, Tide & Charlies. I have plenty stockpiled from mixing coupons with sales. I don't find Charlie's any better or much worse than anything else.

After washing only a few loads, I'm noticing my clothes coming out cleaner, brighter, softer, and fresh smelling - not perfumy or musty. I am getting very good results from both Persil Megaperls and Persil Color Megaperls. Washing my colors w/ Color Megaperls at 120F gets out faded stains that Charlie's Soap (CS) wouldn't touch. My whites came out blindingly white after using regular Megaperls at 160F. I thought my whites were coming out just fine with CS, but it's like I found a whole new brighter shade of white this week!

One of the reasons why Persil is better at stains than CS may be the presence of enzymes in both Megaperls products. There are no enzymes in CS. My understanding is that enzymes are necessary for removal of protein-based stains, are active up to 140F, and are an important part of "profile washing". I don't know if Miele washers work this way, but my Asko spends the majority of its wash cycle in the temperature zone where enzymes can do their best work. I also have a whole house water softener.

The other interesting item worth mentioning is that my clothes feel soft and fluffy coming out of the dryer - more so than with Charlie's. This part may be in my head, but I'm not noticing any of that elusive and mysterious "buildup" that is mentioned by Charlie's Soap and even my Asko manual. I think the whole detergent buildup issue has its roots in the poor rinsing ability of top loaders. I noticed a lot of suds from the detergent buildup in my clothes after switching to a front loader after using a top loader in my apartment complex for a few years. However, since then, I haven't had any detergent buildup issues in my front loader.

Find what works for you and stick with it. A few years ago I was denouncing Persil for being an expensive "bourgeois" detergent, but now it's the only one that gives me the perfect cleaning, rinsing, and scent. I've tried HE versions of Tide, Tide Coldwater, Cheer,, Wisk, All, Charlie's Soap, Bi-O-Kleen Premium Powder, Country Save, Le Blanc/L'Amour, Ecover, and possibly more. I've settled on Persil as my perfect, albeit expensive product.

It's funny how detergent manufacturers always make a claim that forces you to use a lot of detergent just to see if that claim is true. It always seems to work to their advantage. What I CAN say is that Persil rinses cleanly and does not appear to cause any buildup. I use 1 TBS for most loads, but have used up to 4 TBS as an experiment and had no rinsing issues. I have an ASKO with five standard rinses, though, so those of you with only two rinses may have issues with higher doses.

It still leads me to the conclusion that we in the US have gotten at least slightly forgotten about in the detergent market. I think I am going to write a letter to Dial/Henkel today and beg them to bring Persil to the US too where the cost would come down. Maybe some of you here could do the same. Usually if there is a demand they will make a supply. Just a thought. Couldn't hurt.

Unfortunately I switched to Sears detergent for the past year and found that it may save you money but leaves me much disappointed in the final result and I will be going back to Persil and STPP very soon. It was so much better and I soon regretted buying two huge buckets of the Sears detergent. Glad its almost all gone.

You are correct. You are only suppose to use 2 tbsp to clean out the machine before you start laundering clothes in Charlie's. The only time they recommend using 2 tbsp washing clothes is if you have really hard water. The average person can use anywhere from 1 tbsp to 1/2 tbsp per load.

They do recommend for the first few washes of all your clothes that you use 1 tbsp per load to remove old detergents and fab softeners. After that if you still see a lot of suds then they tell you to cut back.

The month thing came into play as some of us found out it can take a month to remove the build up from our laundry. I was one of those people. I have hard water ranging between 8 and 10 grains. Not super hard but enough to cause a prob. Combinging that with old detergent and fab softener residues, it took a month before my clothes softened up and began to smell better.

The only reason why I am not exclusively using Charlie's now is I am caring for my mom. She has had two strokes, and heart attack and now has cancer. Her skin is real sensitive to touch and if her clothes are not super soft it actually causes her a great deal of discomfort. Due to this I have had to go back to using conventional detergent which will still clean when you use fab softener. Also, I do not have time to soak a lot of garments if they get really bad like I use to. So having something that blasts the dirt off right away kinda helps too, but I do miss using my Charlie's on everything.

Heidi

ps Since Persil already has phosphate in it, there's really no reason to add STPP, it's just another phosphate.

Persil Universal-Megaperls ®
Ingredients declaration according to Detergent Regulation ((EC) No 648/2004)
• ZEOLITE
• SODIUM CARBONATE PEROXIDE
• SODIUM DODECYLBENZENESULFONATE
• TAED
• AQUA (WATER)
• SODIUM LAURYL SULFATE
• SODIUM CARBONATE
• SODIUM SULFATE
• SODIUM CITRATE
• 2-PROPYLHEPTAN-1-OL, 7EO
• SODIUM ACRYLIC ACID/MA COPOLYMER
• SULFONATED POLYETHYLENE TEREPHTHALATE
• CELLULOSE GUM
• PEG-80
• ZEA MAYS (CORN) STARCH
• ALCOHOLS, C16-18, 7EO
• TETRASODIUM ETIDRONATE
• SODIUM SOAP C16-18
• SODIUM BICARBONATE
• PERFUME
• CORN FLOUR
• HEPTASODIUM DTPMP
• PARAFFIN
• SODIUM CHLORIDE
• C12-18 FATTY ALCOHOL 5 EO
• SODIUM HYDROXIDE
• OPTICAL BRIGHTNER
• SODIUM GLYCOLATE
• PEG-14M
• COLORANT
• HYDRATED SILICA
• PROTEASE
• HEXYL CINNAMAL
• LINALOOL
• BENZYL SALICYLATE
• LIPASE
• AMYLASE
• MANNANASE
• CELLULASE

You're absolutely right that Persil does, in fact, contain Zeolites, but it also has phosphate ingredients too, including:
--
TETRASODIUM ETIDRONATE Synonyms: Tetrasodium (1-hydroxyethylidene) bisphosphonate

Description
Tetrasodium etidronate and the related disodium etidronate are chelating agents and sequestering agents that attach to metal ions to keep them from reacting with other compounds in a mixture, and to prevent them from precipitating out of solution as insoluble scums.

Uses
Tetrasodium etidronate is used as a water softener in soaps to prevent soap scums and bathtub rings by locking up the calcium and magnesium in the water.

Compounds with similar functions are sodium carbonate, sodium edta, sodium citrate, phosphoric acid, and tetrasodium pyrophosphate.

---
HEPTASODIUM DTPMP is also a phosphonate
Hepta sodium salt of DTMP = Diethylene Triamine Penta (Methylene Phosphonic Acid)

used as stabilizer for peroxide bleaching and detergent additive

---

"Over time, phosphonate fertilizer can be converted by bacteria to phosphate in soil, where it can be taken up and metabolized by plants. This conversion can take several weeks and is not thought to be a very efficient means of phosphorus delivery to plants when compared with phosphate fertilizers."

I think your article means to say that phosphonates aren't as *efficient* or cost-effective as phosphates when they're used as crop fertilizers.
---
excerpt from an article titled "Researchers Study Roundup as Possible Cause of Harmful Algal Blooms":

"It turns out that many cyanobacteria present in Lake Erie have the genes allowing the uptake of phosphonates, and these cyanobacteria can grow using glyphosate and other phosphonates as a sole source of phosphorus," Bullerjahn says.

April 27, 2009 article listed by Stacy Brannan
Associate Editor, Ohio Sea Grant and Stone Laboratory 1314 Kinnear Road Columbus, OH 43212
614.292.8949 brannan.16@osu.edu

cyanobacteria is another name for blue-green algae

---
anyway, I was just responding to a comment made about adding STPP to Persil. I think that would be unnecessary since Persil already contains a phosphate ingredient that does the same thing as STPP, which is a phosphate additive

I seriously doubt one or even a few loads would fix this stiff towel problem though. Even when I switch back to Persil and STPP it will be likely over a month before it gets back to normal.

It would appear that phosphonates are tolerated much better by the environment than phosphates.