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mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

Posted by cleo26 (My Page) on
Sun, Oct 5, 08 at 12:00

Hi mc58,

I have been following your sudsing and tangling issues, and wondered if you found a solution? I am still on the search for a way to increase the water level of my FL Duet washer. I have been noticing that my towels are getting increasingly stiffer and not as white as in the past. I have had my Duet 9600 since Jan this year. I am attribute the stiffness to the fact that the loads are not properly rinsing.

I experimented washing my towels running a regular whitest white wash with extra rinse, followed by a separate rinse cycle with extra rinse. After drying the towels, they were almost as soft as when they were new. I tried the same process when my other loads, and the clothes came out softer as well. I am convinced that these machines use too little water.

I bought a FL thinking they would perform as well as my European FL washer, granted it was ten years older. I was shocked at the miserly water level of the American model.

Anyway, i was wondering if you or anyone had read Mike's Duet blog? He references a link i sent in the past about increasing the water level of the Duet FL.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

cleo26,
Thanks for asking, I have read his blog awhile back and actually emailed him. I finally just replaced it with a FL Speed Queen 4 yrs old, I love it. It only adds a little more water for the wash but I love how much it uses to rinse, it actually sprays on the clothes not just a few of them in the front.
It is real upsetting that you spend so much on a washer you expect to clean and go thru what I have gone thru is just rediculous!!!
I hope that you can deal with yours, everything I tried, it didnt work, I had washed my towels in the Duet for a total of 5 months to get all the suds out, it took getting a different brand of washer to actually do the job. That is pretty sad.

Good luck


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

mc58,

Thanks for the information. Were you able to return the Duet from where it was purchased because of the problems you were experiencing?


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

Cleo26,
Have you tried tweaking the water pressure switch to add more water? It sounds like an easy fix.


I grew up with a Westinghouse front loader in the early 70's.
They used way more water but no where near what a top loader uses so I don't know why manufactures are cutting so much water out of wash cycles and rinse cycles. It's just not enough water to get the job done right the first time.


Would love to hear if adjusting the water pressure switch makes a big difference.
(Thanks for those links).

I'm still using a top loader until FL's get it right.


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

cleo26,
I have it sitting in my garage! I originally bought it from Lowes and when I called them they said that it was past the 7 day allowance to return it. I hadnt been home for 2 weeks after I bought it, but they wouldnt do anything. I will be talking to them again because there was a post that some one had their washer for 9 months and was able to return it to Lowes, I just dont know if they had purchased the extended warranty thru Lowes, I didnt and that might be a problem.

I was told that it would drain the extra water out.


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

After reading your post and the attached blog posts, I decided to try adjusting the pressure switch on my 2001 HE3 washer. The posts were very clear on how to make the adjustments and it took approximately 2 hours of fiddling to get to the right amount of water. I was able to double the amount of water that the washer uses and it seems to be working just fine.
I am currently rewashing bath towels without any soap and there is an amazing amount of old soap residue coming out of the towels. So far I am happy with the results of the adjustments and will report back if I have any problems.


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

Jean123,

I am so happy to hear that you was able to do that, it didnt drain the water out? I had asked here on a different post if it was possible ,and someone said that it would just drain out the water, and void the warranty. I even asked the tech to do something to add more water, he told me that there was no way he could and that these machines are not made to hold more water, so my husband didnt dare mess with it. since its a new washer.
Isnt it amazing to see all the soap residue? When did you realize that you had soap issues? I think alot of new FL owners dont have any idea what is being left in there towels, I didnt realize for almost 3 months.
I hope it continues to work good for you, let us know.


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

The water did not drain out. The door seal works fine. The highest that the water gets is to the bottom of the glass inside the door. Our washer has long since been out of warranty so we did not have any worries there. If it had still been under warranty I probably would not have tried this. If I don't like the results I can always set the pressure switch back to lower the water level.
I really didn't think that I had any soap issues until I washed some towels. Boy did the suds come out of them. I do find that I need to use less detergent though. Say 2/3 of a tbsp of Charlie's soap for a load of cotton shirts. As for the towel, I think that I will continue to wash them without soap until the suds stop.
I will keep you posted, and feel free to ask more questions if you like.


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

Let us know how long it takes till all the suds are out. I had only been using 1/2 tbl of liquid Tide HE when I noticed that when I would take the towels out of the washer they were crackly sounding and the jeans were stiff out of the dryer.

I just get so angry that these companys are doing this to us, I wish that they would do a recall on them, and give us more water without hurting the warranty or having us do it ourselves.

I am going to try to write to the VP of Whirlpool, if I can find an address.


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

I haven't yet tried to adjust the water pressure. I was afraid of voiding the warranty, but at this point, i am almost considering another washer anyway. I am convinced the new energy-conscious FLs use too little water.

Sounds as if i have a little weekend project....:)

mc58, let us know if you decide to try this, and because you asked:

Whirlpool Corporation General Offices
World Headquarters and North America Region
2000 N. M-63
Benton Harbor, Michigan 49022-2692
United States

Telephone:
269-923-5000

Members of the Executive Team and Corporate Governance Contacts at Whirlpool Corp.
Contact form through which one can send a message.

Note that for appliance service inquiries, they ask that one calls: 800-253-1301 or emails: whirlpool_customerexperience@whirlpool.com.


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

Cleo,

I agree that they give too little water, I have heard from almost everyone here that have the 9400 & 9600 that just love their washers and dont have those issues, I wonder why yours is having a problem? I thought it was just the 9200. Maybe they just dont realize it yet.

Thank you for all that info. I just got finished with my letter I hope to get it sent tomorrow, I will let you know if I ever hear anything back.

I have called that customer service # and also wrote to them and never got a reply, hopefully I will hear back from this VP soon, its just not right.

I wish that everyone that has problems with their Duet would help and also write to them. Maybe we could get something done about it. Dont give up yet. I will let you know.


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

Your (everyone who is unhappy) frustration with the machines is understandable, but you must also understand that these washers are DESIGNED and INTENDED to work the way that they do. You're wanting to modify and re-engineer them to work in a way that they're not supposed to work. Writing letters to manufacturers isn't going to change the industry. Government requirements to meet the EnergyStar designation is the driving force. If manufacturers don't design machines to meet those requirements, they can't use the EnergyStar label. Your choice to get clothes washing in a tub-full of water is to buy a traditional deep-fill non-HE agitator washer while they're still available. They'll very likely disappear from the market (other than as used/resale machines) in a few more years as the government mandates get more strict. I agree that the super-low water usage isn't ideal for some kinds of washing situations, but it is quickly becoming the norm for washing machine design. There soon won't be any other choice for buying a new washer.


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

Dadoes, I'm not convinced that Energy Star compels Whirlpool to use so little water. Here's how I figure it:

EPA volume for WFW9200S is 3.51 ft3. Water Factor is 3.87. (Data as of 10/02/2008) So the "total weighted per-cycle water consumption" is 3.51 x 3.87 = 13.58 gallons.

What is the maximum Water Factor allowed by Energy Star? This varies by date:

1/1/2007: 8.0
7/1/2009: 7.5
1/1/2011: 6.0

So a 9200 built before 7/1/2009 could have a "total weighted per-cycle water consumption" of 3.51 x 8 = 28 gallons. For a 9200 built after 1/1/2011 it's 21 gallons.

No, I can't explain exactly what "total weighted per-cycle water consumption" means, and maybe I'm missing something. But it would seem that the difference between 13.58 gallons (current value) and 21 (maximum under 2011 rules) would allow quite a bit more water in the rinses. Adding rinse water wouldn't affect the Modified Energy Factor (the other Energy Star criterion) if it isn't heated.

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=clotheswash.pr_clothes_washers


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

dadoes,

I hear you, and if i recall, you've expressed this before. While i do understand, i'll reiterate that even though the washer is engineered this way doesn't mean it performs well. A number of us have proven that the rinse cycles, for instance, are not using sufficient water to rinse the detergent away, and it doesn't seem to matter how little soap is used. People are complaining of allergic reactions because of the inadequate rinsing. I believe there is a poster here (jcrowley?) who switched to the TL Cabrio because of this problem. And finally, i suspect that some of the issues with mold and mildew are simply a result of the tub not sufficiently rinsing away detergent. (Yes, i know there are cases of misuse.)

I also don't agree that the new Energy standards are calling for this much of a reduction in water. After all, many of the newest TLs meet energy standards and use lots more water than my FL.

Heck, i'm amenable to changing my habits, but i am having to invest more in maintaining my washer -- careful detergent measuring, vinegar fabric softener, Affresh, removing the detergent tray, wiping down, etc. -- than was ever necessary with my German Miele. And it still doesn't wash better.

mc58,

I would be interested to know if you get a response. Also, are you reconsidering tinkering with the water pressure? :)


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

I have a brand new Maytag Bravos. Mod:MVWB800VQ washer. I
bought this at Lowe's. I was under the impression that top
load HE washers used more water then FL. NOT TRUE! So I waswondering if anyone knows if there is a water pressure screwlike what is in the Whirlpool Duet? I went to Mike's Blogcompliments of cleo26 (Thanks)and read it. I even E MailedMike on 10-05 about my question and as of yet, I have not received a response. Would appreciate any help. Thanks
Chance1


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

Cleo,
I have not done the adjustment and I couldnt get my husband to try, I dont know why he wouldnt, because he took apart the dryer and fixed the wiring on it and it works now, I think he didnt want to void the warranty. He is hunting and wont be back till tomorrow I'll have to ask him about it again. I will let him know that I think he should read Mikes post again, he is the one that found that post for me along time ago. I even posted the link here once.

I was also told by the tech that they dont want water up onto the door because they would leak??? I think they just like to come up with stuff on there own.

Chance 1,
I'm sorry but I dont know about the Maytag's. Maybe you can start a new post and ask that question, someone might know. I hope that you can find out. I think Mike will write back.

Ya know what is really funny, since I bought a 4 yr old used Speed Queen FL and it is working great, but I have noticed that after the wash is done there is still about 1/8 tsp powder in the dispenser, but its so funny because you would think that after all the rinsing it does that there would be more suds in the rinse water than my brand new Duet that is now sitting in the garage, but there are no suds AT ALL in the rinse water. Ya Hoo cause I hate SUDS

I agree with Cleo,
They can all say that is the way these washers are suppose to work, "but come on guys" it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that it takes water to rinse out soap!!! :)


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

mc58,

I think my husband and i have agreed to tinker with the water pressure gauge. We will adjust the gauge little by little to experiment if any water will leek out. I would be happy if i could at least increase the water to the level of the delicate or hand wash cycle, which falls just below the door.


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Cleo

I know what you meam, it would be nice if you could do it. I know with my SQ it doesnt fill up with alot of water but in between spins as its draining and spinning slowly it pours water on the clothes and that is what all these washers need to do. I hope it works for you GOOD LUCK, let me know.


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

It's very interesting reading these threads. My new Kenmore Elite HE5t, spins and rinses at the same time, then slows and still water runs in. Then it stops spinning and water continues to run in. It agitates for several minutes, then performs that at least one more time.


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

Cleo,
Here is my report of findings after using the washer for 2 days now. There is a lot of tinking involved to get to the right water level without going too far. Certain cycles have a much deeper water level to start with (Delicates + Ultra Hand wash) and you will find that there is a fine line between the right amount and too much water. I have had to adjust the water level back down to a lower level because although the deeper water level worked great in Normal, Heavy duty, and Whitest White cycles that same adjustment would trip a Overfill fault (F H would flash on the control panel)in the delicate and Ultra Hand wash cycles.
So back to the adjustments we would go. The original depth of a Normal + Heavy Duty cycle measured 71mm. The first time we adjusted for more water it measured 120mm, although the Normal + Heavy Duty cycles ran fine at this water level it was too much for the Delicate/Ultra Hand Wash cycles.
So we adjust the water levels back down to 81mm for Normal/Heavy Duty so that the Delicate/Ultra Hand Wash cycles would work properly without an Overfill fault.
Your machine may behave differently, but the only way to get there is through trial and error.
It may be a case of Catch 22 where in order to get a deeper water level in Normal/Heavy Duty cycles one may not be able to use the Delicate or Ultra Hand wash cycles. I tend to want to use all the cycles on my machine so I have found that inprovement may be limited to a 10-15% increase across all cycles.
Let us know if you do the adjustments and what your findings are.


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

sspye,
That is what my SQ fl does, but the Duet didnt do as the SQ does, that is why it wouldnt rinse.


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

Thanks for the info, Jean123. Hmm...it's something to consider and presents an interesting dilemma. Like you, i use different cycles. I'll have to experiment and report back.

Thanks again!


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

I have the 9400, and I also have towels that aren't soft. I just didn't realize it was detergent not rinsing out. We bought the machine when we moved to this house, so I thought it might have been something about the water here. I stumbled across this thread, and realized what the problem is.
I emailed Whirlpool about this, the use of vinegar, and the dispenser drawer (what liquid goes in, comes right out, I'm going to get that fixed). All I got was a standard answer. Even when I emailed back, and flat out stated that not all of my questions were answered. I got a reply that still didn't have answers.


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

Greenbean08,
Sorry to hear that you too are having this same issue. I have been fighting this issue for a year now. 8 different techs and 2 "expensive" repairs, plus a replacement of new washer, and I still had the problem. I finally decided to get a different washer to see if it really was the Duet, and it was!!! the 4 yr old SQ fl washer I bought is washing and rinsing my clothes and towels GREAT even when I do use soap, the Duet wouldnt rinse soap out at all "even when i didnt use soap" I tried for 5 months washing my towels without soap to get my towels soap free, it took a different machine to do it, and on the first load, but all my towels are ruined from using the liquid Tide HE and lack of water.

Something needs to be done about this!


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

Greenbean, are you filling and closing the dispenser drawer before or after you turn on the washer?

FWIW, we've been using small amounts of Tide HE powder and vinegar from day 1 (as well as an extra rinse), and our towels feel great.


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

I think I load the clothes, turn on the power, put in the soap, choose the cycle & push start. Would that make a difference?

My machine is still under factory warranty plus I have an extended warranty, so I will be calling to have a tech come out. After reading this forum, I started to pay more attention to just what's going on there.

We bought the W&D when we moved here, so it was not only new appliances, but new water as well. I have never used the full amount of detergent, but probably still using too much. I'd say about half??

I think I'm going to try some Charlie's Soap as well. I believe we have slightly soft water, since I thought it had a little of the "slimy" feel when we first moved in, and I sure don't see the mineral deposits like everywhere else I've lived. There are still water spots on the shower door and the faucets, but none of the hard crusty build up. I'm hoping it works.


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

I don't know how I missed this tread. Altho I don't have a FL, I did start out with one of the new TL HE machines. Last month I bought the Cabrio TL HE 6400. Bottom line...just not enough water to wash or rinse. Lowes took it back and I exchanged it for the Cabrio 6200. TL with agitator (and plenty of water). Not Energy Star rated but I'm not about to sacrifice clean laundry. I agree that these companies aren't making washers for the consumer any longer :(
Monica (who's quite happy with her new washer!)


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

It has been a couple of weeks now and I thought that I would update the thread. My washer has been operating for 2 weeks now with an increased water level of 10-15% and I am happy to report that there has been no errors or ill effects from the adjustments. I do notice that my cottons feel softer ( I assume from the increased water in the rinse cycle). I am happy that I did the adjustments and may or may not fiddle with it further. I will keep this thread informed of any problems that I encounter. So far so good.

Jean


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

Thanks for the update, Jean. I'm glad to hear that it's working well. Wouldn't it be great if we could change the water level by cycle rather than keeping it low enough not to cause an error? :)

We haven't yet had the time to ticker with ours. We do plan to, and i will update with my findings.


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

Monicakm,
Congatulations! on getting a trade and not waiting too long to be able to do something about it. I wish I would have done something sooner, but after realizing it wasnt something I was doing, Lowes wouldnt take the washer back, they said I was over the 7 day return policy.I hope you continue to get enough water to clean your clothes, I hope the water police dont come after you :)

Jean,

I am so glad that it is working for you. My husband doesnt even want to mess with our Duet, he says it has been to much of a headache already, to leave it in the garage till we get rid of it. I agreed!
I am feeling so much better now that I dont have to watch the suds in my washer and stress over it, I am still loving the Speed Queen FL, it works GREAT!!!
I am sure your feeling the same way.

Cleo,
Let us know if you do fix yours and how yours is working.
Good Luck.


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

mc58, The two Lowes stores I shop at have always told me I have 30 days to exchange a major appliance. We're you trying to return or exchange? Glad it was a happy ending tho and that you're very pleased with your Speed Queen :) I'm tickled pink with my new Cabrio...the water hog that it is! (g) Seriously, I don't use more than I need (I don't want excess water in my septic system). Both of our toilets are Toto 1.6 gal tanks and the kitchen and master bath sinks both have Tapmasters on them. So I feel like I'm doing my part to use water responsibly.
Monica


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

I had called them just to ask what they would do for me, they said I had went over the 7 day return policy. I had read a post that someone had actually returned their washer to Lowe's after 9 months, that was really upsetting, but different location different manager.
I agree that you are doing your part in saving water.
Marie


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

So...last weekend we opened our washer to modify the gauge in the water level switch, and what do we find? The switch resembling the one in Mike's blog can't be found. We looked around and found what we thought was the switch, and it seems that the one in the 9600 steam series is slender and rectangular. Since we were not sure -- and i did an exhaustive search on the internet for picture matching our model -- we didn't tamper around with it. Also, we couldn't figure out how to dislodge it. I would be glad to post pictures of the interior of our washer if anyone has any clues.

My next plan is to continue searching until i find our model switch with some details, at a minimum, on how to replace it.

mc58, regarding the letter you sent, did you hear back from Whirlpool?


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

cleo26,
Sorry I just read your post. I have taken some time off from the computer for awhile. I actually havn't even sent the letter yet. I wanted my husband to read it first, and of course he has been to busy, well he is just sick of the Duet, I think he has had nightmares about it. But I still LOVE the Speed Queen set. We were outside the other day and looking at the Duet sitting in the garage, he asked me what I was going to do with it, I told him that some people have adjusted the water level in their's, and I asked him if he would try to adjust ours, he said no! I would rather give it away than deal with that thing again. So I am going to try to sell it.

I hope that you have luck on messing around with yours.


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

Honestly, I'm not having any problems with my Duet 9300 cleaning my clothes but after reading this post I went to his blog....I went and took the top off my machine. I have no clue what he's talking about.......I didn't know where to look.......top right/left/back/middle........If I could modify something if it's as simple as turning a screw to get more water I'm willing to try it but I didn't see the first screw.........I did notice when I had the top off how clean everything smelled..........:)


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

mark40511: it should be on the top right size, at least it seems to be in most of the recent Duets. I am still looking for mine, though i think i've found it, but it is shaped differently than the one at Mike's blog so i am looking for verification and further guidance.


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

Oh......After posting this I was looking at the wrong thing and I finally saw the pics.......It's easy to take the top off the Duet....Mine isn't pushed completely up against the wall......I saw the adjustment screw, though its very hard to get an eye on the screw the hole is so tiny....I couldn't even see the screw.....Its a slotted screw and you have to use a SUPER TINY screwdriver.....As much help as that blog was.....there was NO MENTION of what type or size screwdriver to use.......Anyway.....I got a flashflight, put the screwdriver in the hole....I'm doing this blindly because I was having to feel if the screwdriver was lined up in the slot of the adjustment screw....so I turned it clockwise about half a turn......Nothing when I plugged the machine back in a filled it.......I coudln't see a difference........then I turned it about another half turn....plugged the machine in, started the normal cycle....Boy did it fill with water!!!!!It was scary!!! WAY too much water for my liking.......I drained, readjusted down some......and the water level went back down......Honestly......I think the machine is using more water....That's the last adjustment I made. I didn't want to mess with it anymore....When I do a load now......I can tell that its using more water based on the sloshing sound of the clothes....Much more pronounced, yet I still can't see the water level when washing....But you can hear there is plenty of water in there, the clothes are soaked and I'm happy. Honestly I wasn't unhappy with my machine at all, I just messed with it out of boredom and was curious if I could successfully adjust it.....I just don't understand why there is such a fine line from the duet factory water level and half way up the door water level.....Based on the blog, they did say it would take some time to adjust the screw little at a time....If I had to guess how much more water mine is using....I'd have to say 1 to 2 gallons more per fill.


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

Glad you were able to find it. I just wish i could locate the screw or lever in mine.


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

Thanks Cleo

I'm glad I found it but like I said, I don't understand why a SMALL turn of the screw can go from regular water level to SCARY water levels......Like I said, I did turn it a bit before noticing a difference but once you get to the point where apparently the "change" starts...LOOK OUT


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

It has been 3 months now since I adjusted the water level on my HE3 washer and I am happy to report that I have not had a single error and there have been no problems to report. All wash cycles work well and IMHO the clothes seem cleaner and softer.


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

Jean. Do you have a pic of what your washer fills to? Here's my Duet water level after adjustment, I know its not much more but it is maybe one to two gallons more. With the delicate cycle it actually touches the glass door.

Here is a link that might be useful: duet new water level


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

The problem with the Whirlpool Duet is the same problem I have with my Frigidaire Affinity. Both models are "add a garment". In other words it only puts in just enough water to get them saturated and a little more for water run through, that way you can pause the cycle and add something you may have missed without water pouring out of the machine.

I have had from time to time build up, but I have always been able to strip my laundry of residues.

If the build up seems real bad, fill up bathtub with luekwarm water, place affected garments into water and agitate with hands or feet. If there is build up on the garments, then you should see suds come up into the water. If you see nothing, then the build up is in the machine and you may need to do two maintenance wash cycles on the washing machine.

I am currently only using a table spoon of detergent with average loads so I can still air dry without too much stiffness. If I have a particularly nasty load I will use more detergent but add fabric softner to cut the suds. So far so good.

I also recommend doing a suds test on any detergent before you use it. Even if it is marked HE. I have found some that are marked HE either suds way too much initially, or didn't suds exccessively but the suds that did arise didn't dissapate readily.


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

Mark, I took depth measurement in the centre of the washer at the very deepest spot before and after adjustments. Before depth (normal,whitest whites and heavy duty cycles)was 71 mm. I was able to get as much as 120 mm. on those cycles and it worked fine. I adjusted down as the delicates and hand wash cycles would trip the overfill fault. I came to rest at 81 mm. depth for normal cycle and all the others then worked well too. I possibly could go higher I was just getting tired of the fiddling. This level works for me and I am happy.


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

Jean. So 81mm is a little over three inches at the very back of the drum (deepest part) right? Did you notice on your machine that when you had the highest water level that the clothes didn't lift and drop as well as they did with the low water level? They sort of roll around in the bottom of the drum. Not sure if the cleaning results would be the same with that different type of wash action. I know the baffles on the Duet need to be a bit bigger.


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

Mark,
Yes, 81 was measured at the very back of the drum. When the machine was at the highest water level (120mm) the clothes did not fall as well in the wash water and there was a lot of oversudsing. My older HE3 has very large baffles not like the ones in the new Duets. I am very happy with the wash action now and have had no problems whatsoever with the washer.


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

Jean

Yeah. I'm pretty happy with my water level now. I measured and its a touch over three inches. The baffles get completely covered but it's not using much more water, but definitely more. I can't smell Tide HE at all after three rinses. I know its cleaning and rinsing great with just a gallon or so of water more per fill. If I turn it on delicate it touches the glass door! Soak is not as high as delicate, it comes up and just touches the bottom of the rubber boot. I wonder what the deal is with the Duet's baffles? They are super small.


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

Are the baffles intended to do any more than assist with tumbling and retention during spin? Maybe there's no reason for them to be bigger.


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

Some similar modern front loaders to the Duet have larger somewhat larger baffles. I'm not sure.


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

Cleo

Did you say you had the Epic Z? If so, go to this link below and read through this. He adjusted his water level fine.

Here is a link that might be useful: Water level discussion/pictures


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

mark40511: i have a Whirlpool 9600 and only need to find the water level gauge. So far i have not found pictures for my model.


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

OK, so after much research, i have finally found the water level gauge in my washer. It's not a "switch" like in the previous models, instead it's an analog pressure sensor, employing a type of diaphragm that is connected to a magnet whose change in position, induced from air pressure, sends signals to the control board. (Bear with me, i just learned this. :) ) The control board, based on this output, regulates the water level. Adjusting the sensor seems much more complicated than the previous water pressure switch.

The sensor appears to be half the size of the switch, and from what i've been able to see, isn't easily adjustable. So, i've decided to purchase a new one as a testing device before i fiddle with the working one in my washer. For now, my saga continues, and i am hopeful i will soon be able to enjoy the success others have experienced with this simple increase in the water level.


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

Cleo

I hope it works. Just be modest with the water level increase. Too much water = not good lifting and dropping. I've completely given up on my adjustments. As it is now, I'm back to square one. If I turn the switch ever so slightly, and I mean ever so slightly, the machine fills with WAY too much water. I don't get it! I should have left well enough alone because I found that "Sweet Spot" where the water was about 3.5 inches at the back of the drum. I was bored one day so I decided to try to add just a tiny increase and that's when I ran into too much water and when adjusted back down slightly the water level was back to square one. Another thing that concerns me, with the higher water level, there is much more weight in the drum with a full load of clothes. Could this shorten the life of the machine? Yes, it's designed to hold more water on delicate and soak, but usually those are "mild" cycles if you will. Add lots of water and a full load on heavy duty or whitest whites and not sure if it's harming the machine or not. I think the perfect level would be water just barely touching the bottom of the rubber seal.


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

Hi, I have a Kenmore HE4t and I adjusted my water level yesterday. The different water levels I got were 80mm, 85mm, 100mm, 120mm, 170mm. I settled with 100mm. My washed clothes always had some soap in them even if I selected the 2nd rinse option. These machines may be efficient but they're horrible at rinsing.

A question for jean123: Is the extra 15mm of water you now have enough to make a difference?


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

It is really hard to tell, but there is more water in each of the rinse cycles so one has to believe that more water in the rinse cycle = less detergents left behind.


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

Jean...... I was folding clothes while the washer was on in the laundry room and the rinse cycle started. Since I made that adjustment, I swear the rinse cycles are using more water, funny I don't notice it in the wash cycle though.


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

Folks, i did not want to report this, but i think this new analog pressure sensor is virtually tamper-proof. This weekend we dissected the part i ordered and discovered something like a small circuit board. I think the water levels by cycle are hard coded into the chips on the board, and unless i could work in engineering at Whirlpool, it's going to be difficult to hack this one.

Tricking the control panel may be my next step, though unlikely. If anyone has ideas, let me know.


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

This is a very interesting thread. I have always hated my Duet...HATE it. I not only think the rinse cycle is worthless but so is the wash cycle. When washing my dog blankets, I still smell dog on them, and I wash them often. I have found I must wash them at least twice. IMO if something is dirty, really IN need of washing, it won't be clean.

Did I mention how much I hate my Whirlpool Duet?


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

can I ask here why my softener is always released in the wash cycle? I have noticed no softener smell, then checked. Sure enough the softener dispenser was empty during the wash cycle. Anyone else experience this problem.

I should add I can hear what I suspect is soap crackling quite often when I am removing the laundry from the washer. grrrr HATE the stupid thing


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

Softener release is by siphoning. Water for rinsing fills through the dispenser cup causing it to overflow through the siphon tube, then when the fresh water flow shuts off, the siphon effect drains all but a small amount of the water remaining in the cup. Premature release can occur if you overfill the cup with softener or jostle the drawer too much when closing it, causing the contents to siphon out too soon. Or of course if the mechanism that directs which cup the fill water flows through (detergent, bleach, or softener) isn't working properly.


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

Debbie

I do not understand this. I have washed some NASTY laundry in the Duet and it comes out clean.


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

We've put our Duet GHW9200 through the wringer since September 2002, washing clothes for a family of 5. We bought the machine when our youngest daughter was not even a year old, and we had 2 more babies since then. The machine is a true workhorse. Washes our king size duvet, pillows, all the kids bedding, bath mats, towels, cloth diapers, door mats, snow suits, shoes, you name it we throw it in our Duet, and it all comes out clean. Just yesterday, I ran 4 sanitary cycles, and 1 whitest whites cycle, a total of 9 hours running straight all kids bedding including pillows, duvets, sheets, pillow cases.

Only problem we have had with the machine is when we first got it, washed a pair of overalls in it, the clasp came undone and got caught between the door and the boot, ripping the rubber boot. It was clearly our error, but Whirlpool replaced the boot under warranty. Second was the motor control unit quit about 2 years ago, that was fixed under extended warranty.

I love our Duet, and in just under 7 years has served us very well. My rough guess is the machine has done 3500+ loads of laundry. It's getting a little tired. The suspension is getting a little saggy, and the drain pump is noisy, hinting it could quit at any time. But, for $250 I can pick up the parts and replace them myself, thanks to the simplicity of the machine.

We have soft water, and have used all sorts of HE and non HE detergent, home made laundry soap, Persil you name it. My favourite is good old regular Tide powder. At 50ml per load, it doesn't suds up and gets everything clean. We use vinegar as a rinse for bedding and towels, Fleecy fabric softener for most clothing. Never had a problem with smell or mold in the machine.

I would buy another in a second, and have recommended them to friends and family. My aunt & uncle have one, and my cousin has the Kenmore version and they too love their machines.


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

Zedd

Glad your Duet has served you well. You may be a little shocked when/if you get a new one being that yours is almost seven years old. I'm sure it used MORE WATER than the new ones!


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

Mark, I dont understand it either, but it is a fact. My laundry does NOT smell clean to me. I can't say it looks dirty, but then my laundry isn't dirty dirty to begin with. The dog blankets tell the story. I have looked at the washer while its working and wondered where the water is. Things are wet so I guess there is water. I absolutely hate the whirlpool duet FL


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

Debbie_2008,

More details on your washing habits would be helpful in diagnosing the source of your dissatisfaction.

Do you wash primarily in cold water?

Do you run a HOT (or Sanitary) wash on a regular/recurring basis?

Do you occasionally run a whites load with chlorine bleach?

What cycle/settings are used on the problematical dog blankets?

How much detergent, and what kind (regular or HE, powder or liquid)?

You do use softener, thus the complaint regarding the dispenser. How much is the normal dose, and is that on every load or is it occasionally skipped?

Do you leave the door ajar between uses so residual moisture can dry?

Have you attempted to clean the machine with Affresh, or Lemi-Shine, or a good dose of an enzyme automatic dishwasher detergent, or other such product?


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

Debbie_2008,

Which model number do you have? There should be a sticker on the inside of the door jamb right by the hinge.

How long have you had this machine?

Is your water soft or hard?


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

Debbie,
I have the Kenmore HE3 model washer and dryer that I bought in 2001. I have washed a piece of carpet from my daughters car that was filled with dog hair/smell that would not come out with the tape rollers. I was so surprised when this carpet came out absolutely spotless with no dog smell whatsoever. The HE3 and Duets are very similar and I would expect very similar results. Sorry to hear that you are that unsatisfied. Have you had a service call to check out the machine?


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Duet water level problems

Duet Owners and others,
Our Whirlpool Duet front loader doesn't use enough water to wash or rinse.
This past weekend I decided to try a little experimentation to determine just how the
pressure switch works in the machine. I decided to replicate the function of the machine by
cutting a piece of 1-1/4" pvc pipe the height of the washer and install a hose barb at the
base of the pipe to allow connection of a piece of 1/4" clear plastic tubing that would
connect to the pressure switch. I located the switch at the same height that it is in the
machine, connected an ohm meter so that I could tell when the contact closed that indicated
full water level. I really learned a lot by doing this, none of my original ideas proved to
be true but after seeing for myself how the switch reacted to water level I began to
understand what would have to be done to increase water level in the machine without having
to make an adjustment to the switch. It really is simple after you see how it reacts.
This is what I learned. The length of tubing has very little to do with when the switch
closes, the orientation of the tube has everything to do with when the switch will close.
Let me explain by getting you to draw a simple XY graph. First draw the vertical and
horizontal axis lines, next starting at X=0 and Y=0 draw a 45deg.line on the graph go back
and add two more lines equally spaced between the X axis line and the 45deg.line, do the
same for the Y axis. Be sure to allow the angular lines to extend the full length of the X
and Y lines. It should start to look like one quarter of a spoke wheel at this point. At
this point take a kids drawing compass and draw a quarter circle with the point of the
compass located at X 0, Y 0, allow the pencil to extend to the full height of X. Everywhere
the pencil crosses a line represents water level on the X axis based on the angle of the
tub with relationship to the vertical axis. If you were able to follow my crude instructions you should now see how the orientation of the tubing that feeds pressure to the
switch is effected by the angle that it leaves the machine tub and travels to the switch.
If its not plain yet just draw a line at each cross point parallel to the horizontal axis
and let it run to the vertical axis. Where it crosses the vertical axis represents water level in the pvc pipe.
I haven't opened up our machine yet so I don't know if I will be able to increase water
level with what I have learned but I plan to try. All depends on how the line is oriented
now and if there is room for me to reroute the tube in a more vertical direction as it
leaves the connection point on the washers tub. Horizontal travel is additive and once you
have reached the maximum horizontal travel allowed by the switch calibration no amount of
vertical travel will change the trip point. You have to go vertically as quickly as
possible with the line to increase water height in the machine to the desired level at
which point you want to travel horizontally to the switch.
Look at the graph you'll see how water level increases when the tube travels in a more
vertical direction and decreases as you move toward the horizontal axis.
I sure hope I can make this work because it will be a simple fix for the water problem that everyone is having with these front loaders and want require any electrical knowledge and better than that want require any money unless you have to add some length to the tube. Twenty feet of the clear 1/4" tubing cost me $2.68 and about the same for the double ended 3/16" hose barb. I'm hoping someone will see this and give it a try with success and pass it own to others. If not I'll give it a try as soon as I have time.
If anyone gives this a try please let us hear from you on how it worked out. Remember look at the graph, when I tried filling the pvc pipe with the tubing running straight up the pipe I was able to get 28 inches of water in the tube before the switch tripped, this is a lot more water that your machine will hold so take it slow. I'm sure you will not be able to find a straight vertical path but vertical adds just like horizontal as long as you get the vertical travel ahead of the horizontal. Remember always unplug the machine before you start working on it!!!

Sincerely,
Tim Tucker
tim.tucker2881@yahoo.com

P.S. This has all been inspired by a guy named Joe Tass after having read his blog it got me to thinking about a simple way to solve the problem. I sure hope that it works out. I'm going to post this in the comment section on his blog as well. Good Luck All
(whirlpool-dueling-with-duet.blogspot.com)
Sorry my word processor tried to double space everything.
I will continue to work on this problem as I have time. I encluded the address to Joe's blog because this is what inspired me to get as far as I have gotten with this problem. If anyone follows up with this information let me hear from you as to what you did and how it worked. I know that it will work if there is enough space in the machine to run the pressure tubing vertically. Remember in the test that I ran this past weekend I use the orqinal pressure switch from my machine and made no adjustment to the switch. When I ran the tubing vertically up the pvc pipe I was able to achive 28" of water in the pvc tube before the switch tripped. If your water level is too high just add small amounts of horizontal change to the path and the water level will start to drop on the next fill cycle. Good Luck


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

Um, once again I wonder why people buy energy-efficient appliances but then seem shocked that it doesn't use as much water as a Top Loader, and then go to such great lengths to tear their machine apart? Pretty much all front-loaders spray water on the clothes just until they're wet, and then tumble the clothes against the drum.


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

My only problem with increased water levels is the fact that the additional weight could be damaging the machine. Water is heavy. I adjusted my levels somewhat with the pressure switch but not by much. The only difference is the fact that I hear more pronounced sloshing than I did before. Some front loaders that have a high water level were designed for that. I'm not sure if these machines can stand high water levels or not...For all I know, they can but just don't use much water. AT any rate. I'm pretty happy with the way things are with mine now. It's 4 years old and still looks and smells like it came off the showroom floor. And I've washed A LOT of laundry in the thing.


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

Even though I do not have a Whirlpool Duet, I to am having
problems of not enough water!!!! I have a Bosch 800 Series.
Model # WFMC8400UC. I have located the water sensor device
in my machine, however, there seems to be -6- sets of screws
on the front of the sensor and I have no idea if all -6- or
just -1- screw has to be turned. I even talked to a teck and
he did not know himself. Unfortunately I do not have the
ability to post a picture of my water sensor.
Thank you in advance for any suggestions.

Chance1


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

So Cleo

Have u tampered with your machine since you posted last? Just curious. I have a weird, but good issue. Remember a while back I adjusted the screw on my Duet (older Duet than yours) and it gave me too much water so I adjusted it back down. It was using a little more water than it did but not very much more so I just left it and that and have been happy. Months went by and I put some clothes in, closed the door, selected cycle, pushed start then realized that a sock was on the floor so I paused the machine while it was doing it's initial spray clothes and lock the door before starting the cycle routine. I opened the door put the sock in, started the cycle and about three minutes later got an F11 code for the first time in FOREVER. I just paused and restarted and it went on working fine. (this was all about a month ago)

I have not seen an F11 code or any error code since. I suspect I may have confused the machine by depressing pause a few times to try to get the machine to stop before it started so I could get the sock in. But what I did notice is the machine is suddenly using MORE water. How weird is that? It's running great, it's not overly filled with water but I would say it's using the same amount of water as the "delicate cycle" in normal, heavy duty, whitest whites, and sanitary. I never use delicate but I did do a soak cycle yesterday and feared it would fill WAY too high but oddly enough, if filled the SAME amount as it always did, just up to the edge of the bellow. Now the delicate fills pretty darn high, but not SUPER high, it just touches the glass. I must say I hate to admit this because I really really like the thought of using less water but I can definitely tell the difference in rinsing. I don't even use extra rinse anymore it uses enough in the two rinses and I can't smell a hint of tide HE.


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

Hi Mark40511,

I have been away for a bit and just saw your message. I'm glad to read that you are still enjoying the benefits of the increased water level of your FL. I would love to part of the club. :) Unfortunately, i haven't found a solution since i last posted. I really wish i could alter that water pressure chip....


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

Ive adjusted our water level using mikes duet blog and it works great. The pressure switch is easy to adjust. I added 2 1/2 gallons of water to the wash and Ive also done it to 6 other units of people I know and they all enjoy their machines now. This adjustment can be done to any unit made by whirlpool (kenmoore, matag etc.),as they all use the same switch


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

Has anyone who is having excessive soap left in their clothes tried using less soap to start with? I never have had a soap issue with mine. I know this because when my washer was rinsing, I added extra water to it with the garden hose, through the detergent drawer. I got more water, and no extra suds. All my clothes, towels and sheets always came out clean and soft.


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

My units are stacked. Is there a way to reach the switch from the front or back, instead of the top panel?


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

I have had front loaders for about 13 years now, and as soon as my new house is completed in a couple of months I am going back to a top loader. If I can purchase a satisfactory "modern" top loader...great. otherwise I will look for an older used one in good shape. My Duets will go in the barn for quilts or throw rugs until they finally die.

I have hard water and use minimal detergent. While the Duets are nice for washing large blankets and quilts, I feel they do a lousy job rinsing things like towels. There just isn't enough water to do the job. Towels soak up the minimal water, and there just isn't enough to do a good rinse job.

At first glance when using a heavy duty or sanitary wash cycle the laundry appears to be well rinsed. However, if they are re-washed with no detergent on a bulky items cycle, which fills the washer with more water, there are tons of suds left in the drain/rubber boot area. Sometimes it takes another bulky item cycle to get all the suds out. It doesn't matter what He detergent it is, and scaling down the amount lower than the lowest stated useage amount makes for dingy towels. I was also getting itchy skin from my jeans, so I put those through extra cycles with no soap as well. No more itchy skin. I use unscented detergents such as Ecos and Seventh Generation because Tide and such would just tear me up, and was absolutely horrible rinsing out.

I am all for water conservation, but having to run multiple cycles in no way saves money or resources. In my opinion, these washers do not use enough water and the government has no business dictating what water levels my dishwasher and washing machine use, or what lightbulbs I purchase for that matter. Consumers have the ability to control the quality and conservation issues with how they spend their dollars, and I already have a mother and father.

I'm going to look into tweaking the water levels.


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

I have one of the Duet models being discussed and though I didn't read every post I'm surprised that no one has mentioned using white vinegar in the softener tray.
I know, I know there are people out there who will say VINEGAR??!! no way! BUT the vinegar helps rinse out ALL of the detergent left behind.
I have been using vinegar in the rinse for several years and our towels and all clothes are very soft.
Just a thought.


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

Detergent is alkaline ... vinegar is the opposite, a mild acid. In commercial laundries, an acidic product used to neutralize alkalinity is called a "laundry sour."


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

This thread has been brought back from the dead several times.........I made the adjustment on mine a few years ago.....I wouldn't go so far as to call it easy at all.......You would either end up with way too much water or back to normal......I couldn't find the happy medium until messing with it for a few days......I think my washer is using a gallon or two more water with each cycle. I'm very happy with the Duet......I think it rinses great


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RE: mc58 ... duet water level ... have you tried this?

It makes me so sad to see all of you struggling like I am with this horror of a machine, the duet!! My towels are like sandpaper, and what used to be white is now gray. I have tried using bleach, not using bleach, only HE less of it, more of it, smaller loads, affresh, borax. It is my personal nightmare!!


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