Front Load Odor? Try AFFRESH

Dumb as a stump, huh? Well, I seriously doubt that! I usually reserve titles like that for people that post erroneous information on forums when they are trying to appear intelligent :) According to the website, it is ONE tablet a month so I guess I figure that the cost is about $2.35 a month, NOT $10 a month. I could run an empty cycle EVERY DAY of the month and my water/sewer bill would still be less than what it was when I had a TL. Plus I spend a lot less time doing laundry now.

Back to the Affresh... it sounds like it does the same thing that using dishwashing detergent does to clean. And I always have dishwashing detergent on hand :)

Signed,
Another 'dumb as a stump" FL owner

I hate to sound as though I am excusing curiousshopper's horrible choice of words, but I think his/her frustration was directed towards Whirlpool FL's and the fact that they would market an expensive product to clean their FL, and not all FL's. Anyone who understands the two different technologies and the fact that FL's are water tight and essentially air tight certainly understands the need to keep the door ajar to ward off potential mildew issues.
You would have to be "dumb as a stump" to NOT recognize the clear advantages of owning a FL. If the TL works for you then "whoopty do", but curiousshopper you and a few others have used disparaging remarks aimed towards FL's and owners of certain brands of washers before and it needs to stop!

Signed,
Another smart as a whip and informed FL owner.....

Duhhhhhh, I lov ma fruntloden washen macheen

what I have read, and tried myself was..one cup of bleach..run through an empty wash cycle..once cycle is completed , follow with a cup of white vinegar and repeat first step..not only does this clean out the machine..it cleans out the drain hoses as well. The reason FL'ers get a sour smell is due to the tightly sealed closed door, no air. After you do this treatment, just leave your door open, and after each wash load and you will not have the "smell" problem Ree

The real problem with soap and dirt build up comes from not using regular hot washes.
In the service business we can always tell when a customer mainly uses cold water washes when we pull the tub and look at the outer tub. It will have a huge build up of what we call scrud. (dirt, detergent, lint, etc.)
Customers who regularly use hot water do not get this build up and the interior of the outer tub is clean.
This is true on both top loads and front loads.

jakvis
hmm..interesting! I never wash in cold water and have experienced a sour smell in my WhirlPool Duet FL. I also learned it's a build up of laundry detergents from their chemicals. Since I went natural and leave the door open, I haven't had this problem again ( once I 'cleaned' it all out) I also bought the LaundryPure, when I first got it I had to run the machine 3 to 5 times before I put clothes in in, and through the window, a very dark blue liquid was running through..I called the rep because I had no idea if this was normal, she gave me her tech support, the first thing he asked was.."do I use Tide" I always used He Tide and it still built up! I was actually amazed what was washing out of the machine..(imagine whats in your clothes?) I did return the laundrypure (long story) but went to all natural detergent and honestly never had that problem again. Ree

This is why I LOVE the garden web. I am in my mid 50's and you learn something every day. I have had a TL for well over 30 years and have ALWAYS kept the top open. WHY? Because my mother did.HA HA. I am smart enough to realize that you did not want to close it, because like anything that has been wet, it would smell musty. BUT, I never even gave the new FL I will be installing in our new home a thought about leaving it open because of blocking the doors of the closet it will be in. BUT, now I will know enough to at least leave it cracked open. And maybe doing a clean thru occasionally.

Being one of those Dumb as a Stump front load users for many years I decided to figure out the error of my ways.

I got my first "used" Westinghouse front load washer in 1990 I got a Frigidaire F/L in 1995 and used it until I replaced it with a Bosch in 2004. The Westinghouse and the Frigidaire used about 28 Gallons per load and the Bosch averages @ 15 gallons.

We do about 7 to 8 loads a week.
So during the years 1990 to 2004 we used approximately 142688 gallons of water and from 2004 through 2007 we used about 11700 gallons for a total of 154388 gallons of water that I not only paid the water bill for but also the sewage bill which is calculated on your water usage.

The average Toploader uses around 45 to 50 gallons of water per usage so for this experiment I'm using 47 gal.

If I would have kept my top loader during these 17 years I would have used a total of 290,836 gallons of water.

My total savings is about 136,488 gallons of water

Now before some smart whip says I had 3 washers and all that expense of new washers here are the facts.
The 1st washer was about 10 years old when I got it and made a $7.00 repair to it.
I was working for Frigidaire when I won a new F/L in 95 and I gave the Westinghouse to a friend who used it another 5 years.
The Bosch I got in 2004 was a special deal I got from my rep to start using one of the units as a tester. I gave the Frigidaire to a neighbor who is still using it. So my product cost has been practically nil so all my savings has been a true savings.

Now of course none of this includes the savings on using 1/3 the detergent of the T/L or the savings of my families clothing lasting longer.

I feel so DUMB... What could I have been thinking to make such a bad decision???

Jakvis--

You forgot your time savings... by not having to do laundry as often :)

You inspired me, though. I just figured my water/sewer savings (our water/sewer charges are outrageous), detergent/fabric softener/bleach additives savings, time savings (I only allowed myself $10/a load... surely I am worth more than that but when I do laundry I also do other things, such as surf the web or post on garden web LOL)

When I purchased my FL, I got it at NFM (last of that model - old color) and paid less than I would have for a top of the line TL.

I figure that I am ahead over $10,000. Dang!! It looks good in black and white.

I am like you-- why in the world did I make such a dumb as a stump decision :)

Money and water usage is one thing, but a really potential health hazzard is another. I guess that I am upset that I found out about the black mold and mildew in my washer by accident. Got a set of Duet's about 4 years ago. Have been noticing that my whole family has been having sinus issues ongoing for the past 2 years. Prior to that, my wife never had sinus problems. I have summer allergies, (hay fevr), but never a year round think. Both my wife an I have been noticing that our towels get a mildew smell quickly and that some of our clothes don't smell as fresh. We tried different detergents and fabric softners. Nothing helped. We had always had little quirks with the Duets, but that is another story. My wife had been telling me that the machine smelled bad. She decided to take a close look and pulled back the gray rubber seal which revealed a lot of black smelly mold which was growing all over. My first thought was amazement, and then anger. I searched the internet to find 2 class actions suits for the mold problem. One with Maytag, and one with Sears and whirpool together. We went out today to look at a new machines. Pretty much all the FL's had the same type of rubber gasget, hence the same potential for a mold problem. I was looking at TL's because of my fear. They have improved tremendously, however there are not that many different models. It was not till I kept pressing the salesperson at HHG that he told me that there was a tablet that would help to fix the problem. WHY DID I HAVE TO FIND OUT THIS WAY! I am so pissed that there has not been more said about this. The tablets ate about $10 for three which equates to three months. I really don't mind the cost of the tablets, but at this point, I am concerned that will not clear up the problem. I tried them today after saturating the gasget with Clorox and scrubbing the crap out of it.

My fear is that there are consumers out there that are using these machines and have small children or infants and they they are unaware of the potential health hazzard to their famlies. I am not looking to sue the manufacturers, I just want a better disclosure to the public about the AFFRESH tablets. Besides the Appliace store, I don't even know where to get them. I looked all over my local Kroger. Suggestions from anyone. Do most of you think that these tablets will fix my problem and maybe my health. I am not saying that the washer is the cause of our sinus and congestion problems, but I firmly believe that it certainly is not helping the situation. I will post updates if anything changes health wise. One question though. WHERE did someone you find out about those tablets?? Any replies here or to my cj48111@yahoo.com are welcomed. Luck to all!!

By the way, there is another post about smelly moldy sears FL's They were told to run a cup of Cascade through their machines

cj...you said you tried them. Did they work? If you go to the website, it shows what stores sell them and you can purchase them online.

Don't know how you could own a FL for 4 years and not know that you have to clean your gasket on a regular basis, run a tub clean with bleach and leave your door open.

I truly believe that the liquid detergents cause more build-ups which in time could probably lead to mold growth. I have absolutely NO build-up after switching to powdered detergent. We also use vinegar for the rinse. I can't believe how soft our clothes are-- without static. I still wipe the glass and the boot off after finishing doing laundry for the day and then throw the rag over the door so that it doesn't shut tightly.

Maybe I am in the minority but when I had a TL, I also cleaned it occasionally... Wiped off the top... left the door open. I don't think it is such a big deal to do it on my FL now.

As service tech you all should see what bleach does to a washer machine internally, regardless of % mixed with water, soap, and/or vinegar. the components wont last too long...ask plumber who many leaking toilets they fix annually because the bleach tablets "to prevent toilet rings" eat away enough of the ball/bell for a constant leak. BLEACH is probably the worst product you can use, bleach actually breaksdown the laundry detergent if introduced to the laundry together, and it also eats fabric...also using home remedies could possibly void ur warranty...another point - anyone ever read the user care guide that states to clean the boot and door glass after every wash? 80% of people dont read it and over pack their washers and dryers!!!

Just cleaning the gasget wont get rid of the odors. Once your machine gets a nice thick coating on the outer tub you need to power wash it away, maybe even dismantle it and scrub it down if its extremely bad. Let it go for about 4 years and you will see something like this inside. It wont go away without some work. Using too much detergent and cold water washes and no bleach will do this for you IMHO. Just go thru the pics in this photobook I made on the subject. Cascade also does well to get rid of it but it may take more than one cycle if it gets this bad.

http://groups.msn.com/Appliantology/maytagneptunemolddisease.msnw?Page=1

Here is a link that might be useful: moldy

That is SOOOOOOO disgusting! :) No wonder some people get smelly laundry rooms! I think I will make a point to keep on top of mine by doing what I am already doing. I must be doing a fairly good job because no odors after 5 years.

I am going to show my hubby the pics... he will probably want to tear ours apart to just see if we have any problems hidden!

I purchased a new Neptune the year I posted that. We have been doing regular hot washes, some with bleach, use only a small amount of Persil blended with STPP each load, and we never leave the door open. After 2+ years now absolutely no odors at all. Good laundering habits make a world of difference.

No one has specifically mentioned liquid fabric softener as a possible contributor to SCRUD build up in a washer, both TLs and FLs. I'll admit that I don't like liquid fabric softener and don't use it, but there does seem to be a correlation with LFS and scrud buildup. Who was it on this forum who posted pictures of the gunk in his FL that he cleaned out (disassembled the machine)? He was then inspired to give up LFS, since that seemed to be a major contributing factor.

There are some washing machine and dishwasher cleaning products on the market that seem to be composed of mostly citric acid; can't remember the brand names at the moment.

I have an older model FridGEmore, and I rarely wash in cold water. I could not get an efficient warm or hot wash from my old TL - the warm water "mix" gave me tepid water and a hot wash took 20 minutes or more to fill the washer with hot water only. Now I use no liquid fabric softener, I do use liquid detergent, and I don't have any problems with mildew, mold or bad smells.

CMC

I have seen and read a lot on this over the past few days. My take is still that the word in not getting out there enough. I got an e-mail today from someone who called AFFRESH and was told that the tablets are available at Home Depot, Best Buy and some allpiance stores. We need to talk to our local grocers and push them to bring AFFRESH in. It needs to be readily available to anyone who needs it. Judging by some responses on here, many of you do not seem to have the problem. I live in Georgia, and we have a lot of humidity. This makes my probability of mold high. I don't know if a cup of dishwasher detergent would have prevente it. Clorine bleach is something I use often anyway. This obviously had no effect on the situation. Drying the rubber gasget on my machine after each wash is a little extreme I think. Most people would dry the outward side of the gasget and not the underside. The underside of my gasget has so many different knooks, crannies, and rim surfaces, that it would be nearly impossible to dry it effectively. To even get that point across to a consumer, an appliance store would have to sit you down and explain it during the sale. The reality of that is that they don't wnat to do that because it could negatively affect the sale. If you mentioned to a sales prospect that you will need to do maintenance regularly to prevent mold and mildew you would probably lose the sale. A simple sales campaign by Whirlpool aimed at cleaning the residues from soap, softner and bleaches once a month by the use of a tablet would get a lot of sales of the tablets. I still admit that many climates in the US may not have a problem at all.

Just my thoughts. I am looking for an answer.

chip

Today I was at my dentist for a cleaning and while waiting for him to come in afterwards the hygenist and I were talking about the summer and the drought we have had. She said she had gotten a new front load washer about 2 months ago from Sears but she wasn't sure she liked it yet. She said she was using All HE detergent but her towels just didn't seem as fresh. She said she was using the "whitest white" cycle now and some LCB and they seemed better. I asked if she was leaving the door cracked and she said NO am I supposed to? So I went on then to tell her about the mold/mildew/wiping the gasket and running the cleaning cycle.

The point of my post is NO the salespeople do not tell these people anything when they are buying these machines. As I said above she knew nothing of the "preventive measures" for an odor free washer and laundry. She said she would be sure she left the door open and was glad I told her. We are in very humid Alabama.

I agree with sparky. Salespeople do not mention any preventive measures. Many do not even mention HE detergent. If they did, it might scare away people from buying. I guess the people here, including myself, are odd for actually looking up info on the internet and discussing on a forum about FLs. I don't believe most people do that and therefore do not know about these issues.

After talking to people who have recently purchased FLs, I get the impression that they really don't perceive them to require any different treatment or precautions from their TLs. I know people who didn't even know what HE detergent was and who were still using regular detergent at the TL dosage amount. They had no idea what I was talking about about cleaning the gaskets and leaving the door open.

And based on the look on their faces when I brought up these issues, I'm sure they thought I was just being extreme. The manuals for the FLs do make mention of these things but it is a brief mention. Who knows if people actually read the entire manual. Most people never read the entire manual for anything they purchase.

I do think this lack of awareness has heavily contributed to the problems with FLs.

how long has it taken some of you to start getting the mildew or moldy smell? a friend of mine told me his wife uses oxi with some of their loads and they have not had a smell exist in their FL and they have had one for 5 years!

Mold, mildew, SCRUD, etc. are not unknown in Top Loaders.

I've had smelly TL problems in the past. I ended up leaving the lid open. I had threads stuck under the agitator and could not figure out how to remove it to clean it out. (Washer came with the house, no manuals.) So I left the lid open so the threads could dry out rather than mildew. TLs need to be cleaned out, too.

Laundry products, hardness of water, temperature of water used to wash - all seem to contribute to this problem in varying degrees. The fact that you can close up an empty FL and it is air tight is just an additional factor, but it's not the only factor.

Found the washing machine cleaning product I was looking for: Washer Magic. (Not Affiliated, yadda, yadda)

CMC

Here is a link that might be useful: Washer Magic

I have a neighbor that had to get her Kenmore T/L repaired and the guy had to take the tub out. She said it was awful what was built-up under there. She told him she was sorry it was like that cause she said it was embarrasing to her and he told her that "OH they are all like that". He then said if she would use Wisk all time that it would solve that problem. She was using Tide w/bleach powder before. She didn't ask him if it was because it was liquid or if there was an ingredient to help keep it clean in the Wisk but she said she felt like it just pertained to Wisk or he would have just said switch to liquids. Then I hear that liquids tend to build up also. Has anyone here ever heard anything like this?Or know why Wisk would work best?

I am having mold/mildew/odor problems with my FL whirlpool duet! I have followed mfg instructions...clean regularly, use bleach, only use HE detergent (Tide liquid), never used fabric softners, leave door open and I still have issues. My machine is 3 years old..and is now creating health issues for my family as we are all being treated for mold allergies. When I called Whirlpool with my concerns they emailed me updated cleaning instructions to remove/prevent odors and sent me a complimentary package of the AFFRESH product. The product directions indicate to use 1 tablet per month in a HOT WATER/NORMAL CYCLE; if your machine has significant build up it recommends using all 3 tablets at once. I did this with no significant results. In addition I ran 2 HOT water/BLEACH cycles with no success. The mold/mildew still remain and the odor returned within 24 hours.

Whirlpool states that the more frequently you machine is used, the more maintenance that will be required. I do about 3-4 loads of laundry/day. They recommend that run a bleach cycle at the end of every day and dry all components of the washer at the end of every day. I do not have to do this for my dishwasher. It's like telling someone that they have to wash/dry their car every day before driving it the next. I am a very meticulous house cleaner and feel that these daily maintence routines are absurd for a "high" performance machine that is costly.

I am still attempting to get this issue resovlved through Whirlpool. In the interim I have logged complaints with the Consumer Product Safety Commmission (cpsc.gov); the state attorney generals office and am seeking legal advice. I encourage others to do the same. Whirlpool knows that these issues are serious and yet do not seem to be proactive in protecting the safety of their consumers.

It's disapointing that Afresh didn't work for you. It's a new product so there aren't a lot of reports about whether it works or not.

It could be that your washer just has a particularly thick layer of detergent residue in it, and three tablets aren't enough. The bleach should have definitely killed all the mold off, which you say it did, but the fact that the odor returned in 24 hours seems to indicate that there's still enough growth medium inside the washer to let it keep growing.

I'd be real interested to read posts from others who have tried Afresh. Does three tablets work for the typical washer, or are there some washers that need even stronger dosing.

I just got Affresh in the mail. I have a Kenmore FL with a bit of a stink problem. It's definitely mold. I looked at the packaging on Affesh. It's sodium percabonate. Basically it's an oxidizer. It's a peroxide bleaching agent. Ok so guess what OxyClean is.... you got it. Sodium percarbonate. Now I'm not saying any of this is a bad thing. I mean let's face it, Affresh *contains* sodium percarbonate. I have no idea what else is in it.... besides fragrance.... that's kinda obvious. But it could explain why someone using OxyClean regularly in their machine doesn't have this problem.

The thing about peroxide based bleaching agents though is that they're generally slower than chlorine based. I wonder if you started a hot wash with OxyClean in it... and then paused the cycle so the stuff could sit in there a while, if that would help.

Are all of these "magic" washing machine cleaners just sodium percarbonate? I don't think so. I've only found an MSDS on ONE of them and it appears to be citric acid based rather than sodium percarbonate based.

I've stopped using the dispenser for detergent. It now goes right in the machine. No more fabric softener. Vinegar instead. That actually works wonderfully and I have to say I was surprised. Leave door open and dry the bellows when done. I really feel like I'm making progress, but I wish I had known all this stuff from teh start. I'm sure it'd be easier to KEEP a washer in decent condition than it is to rescue it.

I just picked up some Affresh today from HD.
For us we didn't have much of an odor in the tub, however the mildew smell was getting transfered into our towels and clothes. Our machine is the Kenmore HE3t and about 5 years old. Yes, we always left the door open in between washes to dry.
Anyway after reading about the mold/mildew buildup in these machines we decided to break it down to clean and yep, ours was a text book example of all of that moldy mildewy gunk in behind the SS tub. Mainly all over the nylon outer tub and the cast hub that's behind the wash tub. After cleaning the mold smell has dropped dramatically but a little still persists.We have tried running sanitary cycles with bleach, even with a heavy dose of bleach in the wash tub. Have also tried the vinegar trick too, can't seem to get rid of the last little bit. So We'll see what the Affresh does. We are users of liquid detergents (he type) so as soon as our supply runs out we will switch to powder.
I would like to comment that when we cleaned our machine that there was a lot of nasty smelling brown/gray gunk in the lines starting with the rubber flex hose at the bottom of the tub, thru the strainer to the pump and on out the drain hose. This was pretty much due to the machine being un able to pump out the last bit of gray water left in the drain lines (AFAIK -this is common with all washers regardless of t/l or f/l) but since the lines used in the washer are corrugated or ribbed type (at least in mine) it may tend to trap dirt particles all along the length of the hose. So lessoned learned is to run the clean (test) cycle after washing a heavily soiled load.

Anyway I'll report back with how I think the Affresh did.

hth

Just an update. So far I have:
Run a hot load with half cup of Oxy. Paused washer for about an hour, let it run a litle more, paused for half hour. And then let it finish.
Run a hot load with about a cup of vinegar, same deal... pause a couple times, and then let it finish.
Run a load with Cascade Complete. Pause, pause, finish.
Ran a single-tablet Affresh treatment. Paused it about a half hour.

The Oxy wash and the vinegar wash above have been repeated at least twice.

This was all done over the space of several days. I'd try something and then dry out the bellows, remove teh dispenser drawer, and let it sit over night and give it the smell test in the morning.

I have removed the dispenser drawer and cleaned inside that area as best I can. There is a deposit in there that's crystalized and stuck on so hard I have trouble scraping it off, but slowly I am getting it back to visible plastic below.

The only thing going in the dispenser now is vinegar as the "fabric softener".
I am using the Sears HE powder, but only half of what the package says to use (half a scoop instead of a scoop). I am adding 20 Mule Team Borax to that (full scoop). Using only vinegar as a fabric softener.

I think I'm winning. The laundry area no longer smells moldy when you walk in. It actually smells... clean? There's actually no smell. No perfume smell, just ... fresh is about the best way I can describe it.

I rewashed "clean" bed sheets last night. They had been washed just prior to me getting all crazy about this mold thing. What came out of my "clean" sheets was disgusting. I rewashed all of the towels. Now they don't smell like moldy gym socks the first time they get damp from someone toweling off after a shower. And I don't feel like I'm rubbing mold all over me when I dry off.

Winning.... but not won. I don't want to get over confident and go backwards. My washer didn't get this way over night and I don't think it'll get cleaned up over night. I need to stay with the new way of doing laundry and be more aware of what's going in that machine and on my clothes. And I need to dry that bellows. I noticed all the washers at Sears last night had MUCH better drainage of the boot (I have a Kenmore "417" machine).

Anyways.... laundry doesn't stink and washer doesn't stink. Hopefully this is working.

Follow up on Affresh:
Ok, ran the "long" Normal cycle with three Affresh tablets inside. The tablets has a lemon lime smell to them, reminds me of the lemon lime "Airborne" tablets. Anyway washer smells fresh and clean now. Washed my first load of shirts and pants using liquid HE Gain and vinegar for rinse. They came out with no moldy stinky smell, even when some humidity was applied to the clothes.
Now the real test, I am washing a load of towels now, as reikimaster said the stink smell is quite noticeable after toweling off from a shower with a fresh towel.
I'll report back in a day or two with my findings. I'll also be wearing the shirts tomorrow that was just laundered as well. The "smell" usually starts to show up in the shirts about mid day after sweating in them a little.

Well its been a few days and I'd like to report that I could not notice any mildewy or sourness to my clothes since washing them after dousing my machine with Affresh. The towels(which originally had even a stronger nasty smell to them) was "almost" completely free of the mildew smell. Very little could be noticed after using a freshly washed one the other day toweling off, a big improvement. Keep in mind that our towels are old anyway.

SO in a nutshell I believe Affresh works. Since our machine was not that bad, (as it had been recently disassembled and physically cleaned, see one of my posts above) a one time 3 tablet Affresh dose worked.
However I would feel that if your machine is bad off, 3+ years old, strong stinky or mildewy smell in tub or clothes then I would suspect it may would take several 3 tablet doses to eventually clean it out.
Anyway this is just my own findings about Affresh, YMMV.
-Slyk

Ok. Well Affresh didn't quite do the job for me completely. My machine is from June, 2005. The mildew smell started out so bad that if you stuck your head inside the drum and inhaled, it would literally burn your sinuses instantly.

The Affresh did improve things a bit, but I am afraid my washer is pretty bad and there's no way I am taking it all apart to pressure wash it. I have ordered some Purewasher from smellywasher.com and I will report back when I see how that goes. The package apparently contains plenty of material to not only GET the machine clean but to also run it as a maintenance thing once a month for a year OR if you think the washer is getting stinky again.

I have no delusions. My washer didn't get this way over night. I was uneducated in the use of front loaders. If Purewasher turns out to be my magic bullet, I will be pleasantly surprised.

Okay, after reading this I'm pretty scared of my brand new FL. We've had it 2 weeks yesterday! I do use Tide HE powder. I did wash all my sheets in the linen closet and used the last of my fabric softner, so no more of that going in the machine. DH does use a liquid "no scent" detergent for his hunting gear. But that's far and few between. BUT because of where our wash/dryer set, we can't leave the door completely open, but can leave it cracked. Is that good enough?

So, if I pick up some of the AFFRESH this weekend and run it once a month for the rest of my wash life, will I be safe guarding against mold? DH and I are both pretty allergic too it, especially DH.

I've never thought of using vingar for the rinse cycle, I think I'll try that for my towels.

Thanks!

Christy

Don't be afraid of your new FL. :) They really are better than top loaders in a whole lot of ways. And using them isn't HARD, it's just DIFFERENT and apparently nobody is telling us this when we buy them.

Can you leave the door open all the way for just a while after you've finished washing? You don't have to leave it wide open all the time. You want it to have a chance to dry out and then leaving it open a crack is probably fine... let's it breathe. Look for water in the rubber bellows between the door and the drum. There shouldn't be any. Dry it out with a towel or rag. Not fastidiously... just dry it.

Since yours is new you can PREVENT getting a stinky washer which is far preferable to having to rescue a stinky one. I don't think that occasional use of the liquid detergent your DH uses during hunting season is a big deal. I would NOT, however, put it in the dispenser. If your washer is new, look in the manual for instructions on how to run a cleaning cycle if it has that feature.

Be conscious of how much detergent powder you are using. It would not be surprising to me at all that you could use HALF of what the detergent instructions are telling you. Keep in mind that a lot of this has to do with the water in your area. If you're seeing a lot of suds then you're using too much. I'm 55 years old. I was trained to equate suds with cleaning. The new detergents and these FL, suds is not an indicator of better cleaning.

It's looking to me more and more like people who use Oxyclean in their wash regularly seem to have fewer problems. Should you use Affresh once a month? Might not be a bad idea. You're looking at about $2 a month if you buy it on line. I bought it for $6 with free shipping. You might find that just doing a complete hot load with no clothes in it, no detergent and with a cup of vinegar replacing the detergent might be all you need once a month. Cheaper and vinegar is always on hand at our house.

Personally I LIKE the vinegar in the rinse. And I'm still amazed that my clothes and towels don't smell like a salad, but they don't and the vinegar is a TON cheaper than fabric softener. :)

With a new washer... dry it out when done, air it out, run a cleaning once a month. Use powdered HE detergent (you already do.... but look at some others besides Tide). I think you'll be fine. Like I said, it's not harder, just different.

reikimaster-I read this on another forum but it came from a technician. He said that at an LG training seminar he attended that they took an LG apart that was all crudied up and showed how it looked inside. Then they put it back together and ran Whirl Out through it and then took it back apart to show the results and he said it was all cleaned up. He said to use 4 capfuls with hot water long wash. You can find this at Home Depot and it is for cleaning out the gunk in hot tubs and spas. This might do the trick for your machine. I figure if LG recommends it it must be worth a try.

Sparky823,

I am currently following the instructions on Purewasher (from smellywasher.com) ... If this doesn't work, then I will give Whirl Out a whirl. :) Thanks for the heads-up

Let us know how the purewasher works. Maybe it will do the trick.

Yes please get back with the group on the Purewasher stuff.

Checked for Whirl Out at my local HD--they do not have. Maybe a pool supply house might have.

Another tip to help keep it clean is to run a quick wash cycle with nothing in it after washing a bunch of loads or after a filthy load...to help rinse out any gray water matter still left in the hoses, outer drum, etc.

Ok now keep in mind I used Purewasher on Friday and this is only Sunday and considering what I've been through so far, I won't call this *fixed* for about another week. But right now my washer has no odor. It's not perfumed into hiding. It simply has no odor at all. I did the Purewasher treatment according to the instructions on Friday night. This included first a 3 hour soak, and then an overnight soak that finished Saturday morning. Saturday I did laundry as usual. Washer has been sitting now ... unused ... for about 20 hours. Maybe a little more. That's been the real test for me with all the other stuff I've tried. Not "how does it smell immediately after?" , but rather "how does it smell after it sits unused for a while?". Right now it's passing that last test with flying colors.

Here are the various cleaning methods I tried:
- Run a hot bleach load = I can't do this repeatedly because I'm on septic. It didn't do any good at all after 24 hours.
- Run a hot load with about 2 cups of vinegar and vinegar in the rinse = This helped, but next day I could still smell mold
- Run a hot load with a cup of Oxyclean = again this helped but did not cure the problem. Mold smell returned within 24 hours.
- Do the Affresh treatment = smelled good at first. Mold smell returned in 24 hours.

All of those were done by starting the load, getting it sloshed around in there and then pausing the cycle to let the stuff sit in there a while.

Ran the Purewasher treatment = so far so good. No odor. I also notice that the black moldy looking residue that was in the bellows appears to be gone. None of the other treatments touched that stuff. This is in the places you can only see by peeling back the bellows a bit where it meets the drum, I'm going to mix up a solution of Purewasher and see if I can scrub that area out. They describe doing this in the instructions as well. Again, I'm not definitively calling Purewasher the winner until a couple of days has elapsed, BUT even in their literature it says if the buildup is real bad you may have to do another overnight soak. My washer was so bad that if you stuck your head in the drum and inhaled, your sinuses would start to burn. So if I need to do another overnight soak, I'm going to call that "expected".

Even after trying all the other cleaning methods, if I ran a completely empty load on hot and didn't put ANYTHING in the drum, I still had suds. Not just bubbles in the water from sloshing around.... SUDS. After the Purewasher I'm not getting that. I'm guessing that the other cleaning methods didn't clear the buildup but the Purewasher got it. Just a guess. I can't see the backside of that drum, but..... no suds when run empty.

I'm very hopeful right now. If Purewasher has worked, then it just saved me from having to buy a new washer. Because mine was literally so bad that I was going to throw it out to the trash if I couldn't rescue it.

Reikimaster, Good LUCK!!!! Let us know how the Purewasher works. I think I might get some of that myself, instead of the AFFRESH.

This is what I'm going to try:

*After using washer, drying it out and leaving door open over night at least. Also taking apart the dispenser and drying it.

*Using vinegar in rinse (do you put this in the fabric softner dispenser?)

*Using OXYCLEAN with whites especially, if not with everything. I usually wash whites in a hot cycle, so this would be good.

*Get Purewasher and use at least once a month, for preventation.

THANKS!

cburch-

yes, I put vinegar in the fabric softener dispenser. Seems to work great and the slight acidity of the vinegar is apparently neutralizing the alkalinity of the detergent and allowing clothes to rinse more thoroughly. That's a guess on my part. Not scientific.

I'm using the Sears HE Ultra Stain Fighting.... or something like that. :) POWDER. POWDER. POWDER. No more liquid detergent for me. You should SEE what I'm trying to remove from inside my dispenser. The stuff is crystalized in there or something. I am having trouble chipping it off with a SCREWDRIVER (very carefully of course.)

So now I am a powder-only kind of guy. And I'm using HALF of what the detergent package says to use and may cut back just a bit more... to one-third. Now keep in mind that your water chemistry will affect how much detergent you need. If you have a water softener then I am confident you could use a QUARTER of what the detergent package says to use and maybe less.

I made a film of my experience with Purewasher. And I have some still photos and will be taking more. So far so good (keeping fingers crossed). This morning I had my wife stick her head in the washer and sniff. :) hehehehe.... looks silly but she's much more sensitive to mold than I am. She just looked at me and said, "It's fine. I don't smell anything at all. And my sinuses aren't reacting."

I just about jumped in the air. :)

I still have some work to do. I have to make a solution of purewasher and use it around the rubber bellows. The parts that sat in the solution for soaking are looking good, but if I peel the rubber back above the water line I can see some black. It took 2 and a half years to get this way. A little detail work doesn't scare me. Not when I'm this close to resolving the issue.

OK it's Wednesday. I did the Purewasher treatment 5 days ago (last Friday). The odor has not returned. I've been really busy with other things and haven't had time to do the washing of the area where the rubber bellows meets the drum. Hopefully I'll get to that this long holiday weekend.

Now I have to say that when I did this treatment... immediately afterward... I could still smell the mold odor. But the instructions tell you that this might happen. They go on to tell you that using the washer normally usually results in the odor going away, which it did in my case. But if it doesn't, you are instructed to simply do the overnight soak again. Basically the instructions tell you very simply how to do the treatment and what to expect. No crazy claims, no magic. No surprises.

My plan for now is to do that detailed scrubbing of the rubber bellows followed by another 3 or 4 hour soak. Kind of as a pre-emptive measure.

All-in-all I am declaring this a success. This stuff just plain works. It costs $16 plus shipping so let's say $20 to round it off. It's below that, but for simplicity's sake...
You get enough to not only do the initial treatments, but also to do monthly treatments for a year if you wanted to (maybe more). The instructions say that once you get it clean, you really only need to use it again if you notice an odor. I think I'm going to do a monthly "maintenance" treatment for a couple months. And then back off and just do laundry.

I've learned a lot. And Purewasher has apparently saved me the cost of a new washer. I am absolutely serious when I say that my washer was bad enough that if I could not get it clean, it was going out to the trash. Looks like it'll be around a while. :)

We have been using a Whirlpool GWH9400PW for about 2 years and have only had a moldy smell once, when a load of clothes was left wet in the washer for two days. A cup of Clorox run on the hottest cycle and a rewashing of the smelly clothes fixed the problem. We always wipe the rubber boot and leave the door open about 1/3 way for an hour or so after the wash has finished and have had no other problems.

However, I have recently discovered a cleaning solution, Microban QGC, (see microban.com)that is a "disinfectant, cleaner, sanitizer, fungicide, mildewstat, viricide, deodorizer, and bactericide". It is for households, hospitals, and industrial cleaning applications. From reading the label, it seems that adding one or two ounces to two quarts of hot water and running this solution through a washing cycle might be very effective in cleaning out mold in the washer. The gallon (128 ounces) that I have cost about $22 at a local company that sells cleaning solutions to cleaning companies. The cost of 17-34 cents per cleaning is much less than using AFFRESH and may be much more effective as well. Hmm, perhaps I should run a load of old clothes with it and see if it works to wash as well as it kills mold.

Microban would probably be really bad for a septic system. I don't know that for sure, but judging by what you've typed it sounds like it could kill all the bacteria that a septic system relies on to do its job.

This might sound like a stupid question, but:

My wife and I simply leave our front loader door open after doing laundry, until it dries out inside.

No odor at all. No perfumes, no toxic chemicals.

Conate:
So whats your question?? All I read is a comment:-) Anyway consider yourself lucky. We would leave our door open to dry and still developed a smell in our clothes. I think most of the people on this list leave their door open anyway.
Most of our loads I would consider moderate to med soiled plus with a lot of dried perspiration when washed. We are on city water that is high alkaline and high dissolved mineral content. We do a few loads of laundry every other day.
Many folks on here wash several loads on a daily basis therefore their washer never has time to dry out.

You might expand on your water source, how often you wash, how soiled the clothes are, type/brand of detergent you use as well as softeners, etc. Maybe a reason could be concluded as to your success.

If you use powder detergent do you put it in the dispenser?

I put powdered detergent in my dispenser. There isn't any buildup at all in it. When I used liquid, I would occasionally clean it because of buildup but since switching to powder, I haven't had to!

No problem for about a year by leaving the door open and occasionally cleaning the door seal;I do use Borax along with HE detergent.

From the Owner's Manual:

Care and Cleaning;page 8:

"Leave the door open to allow the inside of the washer to dry out."

CLEANING THE INTERIOR

"Clean the interior of the washer periodically to remove any
dirt, soil, odor, mold, mildew or bacteria residue that may
remain in the washer as a result of washing clothes. We
recommend taking the following steps every 60 to 120 days
to clean and freshen your washer interior. The frequency
with which the washer should be cleaned and freshened
depends on factors such as usage, the amount of dirt, soil
or bacteria being run through your washer, or the use of
cold water. Failure to follow these instructions may result in unsatisfactory conditions, including unpleasant odor and/or permanent stains on the washer or washload."

"To clean and freshen the washer interior:

1. Make a solution of one cup chlorine bleach and
two cups warm water. Be careful not to spill or
splash the bleach solution.
2. Wipe the lower portion of gray door seal with
bleach solution and soft cloth.
3. Fill the bleach dispenser with chlorine bleach.
4. Run the washer through a complete cycle using
hot water.
5. Repeat the wash cycle if necessary.
Hard water deposits may be removed, if needed using
a recommended cleaner labeled clothes washer safe."

Here is a link that might be useful: Maytag Neptune Washer user guide - PDF file

reikimaster - sounds like you're on the upswing. I did pick up some AFFRESH this weekend at HD, but after hearing your success story I'm going to get some of the Purewash after the first of the year. Since I haven't developed a smell, I think I'll run it every couple of months just to be safe. We are being careful about leaving the door open at least overnight.

Continue to update us.

Christy

How much vinegar do you use in place of fabric softener?

RE: vinegar in place of fabric softener...

My fabric softener dispenser has a "MIN" and a "MAX" level. When we were using fabric softener, the recommended amount filled dispenser to "MIN". Just to give you an idea of amounts...

With vinegar I am only putting about half as much (by volume) as I did with fabric softener. It's literally just a splash. Depending on the load I can sometimes .... if I try hard ... detect a slight vinegar smell in the washer. But the clothes do not smell like vinegar even a little bit. Sounds weird maybe but I've had my wife and kids all smelling wash, sticking their head in the washer and sniffing... hehehe.... sounds funny now to tell anyone about it.

But the good news is... I don't have to buy a new washer! The Purewasher worked and when I tell you my washer smelled BAD, I mean it smelled REALLY bad. I'm not exaggerating when I say that it made my sinuses burn when I smelled inside the washer before going through all this.

Our bath towels are back to just smelling like bath towels even after they get dampened from toweling off.

And get this.... my wife isn't coughing. I think the mold in the washer was causing her to have some kind of allergic reaction. She's sensitive to mold. She's had a nagging cough... a light one... for a long time. Now it's like... holy cow. Was it the WASHER all this time?

We've started cleaning out closets and rewashing everything.

Anyone I hear from that has this problem I will be recommending Purewasher. I tried everything else that I read about on the web and in these message boards and this is what finally worked. I never thought I'd be so happy about something laundry related. But I'm really happy to have found a solution AND to have learned so much here about how to KEEP it in good shape,

Reikimaster ...... so glad it's good for you. I have a friend here at work that I'm keeping her informed with your progress. She's used the purewasher twice and no far it hasn't helped. Her DH is to the point of replacing the washer, even though the FL is only about 18 months old.
Did you use the directions on the package or did you try something different?

Again, congrats!!

Here in the UK we have been using front loading machines for decades - glad you guys have caught up (just kidding folks). My last machine lasted about 12 years with no smells at all - leaving door open helped. But since washing at lower temps w new detergent - trying to help the environment & save money as well - am aware from my v knowledgeable retailer that this can cause odors. He suggested just running the machine about once every 2/3 months on a v hot cycle (empty) - sound simple enough. this kills the bacteria that causes the problem. In the UK we have a product called "Calgon" which also helps.
I think front loaders are more sophisticated machines as top loaders just pound the clothes clean.

Following a recent hol in the USA to visit relatives I was shocked that so few people hang out their washing outside to dry. Here in the UK (and in Europe in general) it is standard to use a rotary laundry dryer & NOT considered "lower class" (whatever that means)- even friends in v up market homes hang washing outside - not to do so would be considered lazy on a good drying day. Last weekend it was cold but windy & got 2 washing loads nearly dry on my small rotary dryer.

cburch-Tell your friend to try the Whirl-Out and see if that works for her. I would try any/everything before I bought another washer. This is what LG uses/recommends for the mold/smell. Use 4 capfuls and a HOT LONG wash and the tech that was telling me says it works. They even took a machine apart and showed before and after. The Whirl Out is for hot tubs and spas which also have the mold problems so LG uses it in the washers for the same. Try at Lowes or Home Depot or Ace Hardware for the W-Out.

cburch,

I followed the instructions that came with Purewasher. I first ran it as a regular load, with an additional 2 gallons of hot water, and paused it for 3 hours to let it soak. Let it finish that cycle and then ran rinse and spin cycle about 3 times to rinse it out. WHILE IT WAS PAUSED I did go to the machine about every half hour and unpause it just long enough to have it rotate. My idea was that I didn't just want one section of the drum in the soak.

After that first run, the washer still had some odor. But the instructions TELL you this is possible. Then I ran the overnight soak.

Rinsed several times again. At this point there was STILL a hint of an odor but again, the instructions tell you this. In fact they tell you that you may notice it seems worse before it gets better.

Then I did my normal laundry. Now I should say that my "new" normal laundry routine no longer includes liquid detergent NOR does it include fabric softener. I'm using the Sears HE Stain Fighter powder and only using HALF as much per load as the packaging says to use. To that I am adding 20 Mule Team Borax in an amount roughly equal to what the other half of the detergent load would be. This goes right in the drum before I put the clothes in (I'm STILL trying to get the soap/fabric softener buildup completely removed from my dispenser). I put just a splash of vinegar in the fabric softener dispenser. I have NO detectable odor any more.

Now in fairness, keep in mind I did several OTHER things before the Purewasher. All of which may have HELPED, but none of which solved the problem until I used the Purewasher.

Run a hot load with a cup of bleach
Run a hot load with about a full cup of OxyClean
Run a hot load with 2 cups of vinegar
Run a load with Affresh (according to directions)

All of those things seemed to lessen the odor but it returned mightily if I let the washer sit a couple days (open).

I never tried the Whirl-Out as I haven't needed to since the Purewasher worked. And while I will sing the praises of Purewasher, I will also say that your friend may want to try the Whirl-out if teh Purewasher isn't working.

BUT... I would send an email to smellywasher.com and let them know that the Purewasher isn't working. They may be able to help. I know they will respond to email as I have several emails from them myself.

I happened to be in the largest furniture/appliance store in the midwest the other day to pick our new living room furniture and meandered over to the appliances to check out some of the washers that I see people post about on here but have never seen in person.

They happened to have a display of Affresh so I got to looking at it and it's ingredients and see that it is basically sodium carbonate and sodium percarbonate-- the same ingredients in oxygen cleaners!

Having 4 kids, I always add a scoop of oxygen cleaner (I now use Sun brand--$5 for 6# at Dollar General) to all loads to catch those stains that only kids seem to be able to get!

Since using it, I haven't ever had any type of odor, smelly towels, mold, etc. I had previously switched to Sears detergent because I was having a buildup of liquid detergent and gunk in my washer.

It makes me wonder if a person couldn't just use oxygen cleaner as a preventative measure-- it would be considerably cheaper than Affresh!

Reikimaster--when I used liquid detergent, I used to wash my dispenser in the dishwasher occasionally to get all the buildup gunk out of it (should have been my first clue that if it was doing that to the dispenser, it was doing the same to the washer! but I am a slow learner LOL) You might want to try washing your dispenser in your dishwasher or at least soaking it in your sink with a little bit of dishwasher detergent. Sounds like you are taking all the right steps in solving a very irritating problem!

iasheff,

It does seem from all the reading I've done about this, that the folks that use OxyClean regularly do not have a problem. Or at least if they do it's with nowhere NEAR the frequency of those that don't. The part of the dispenser that is removable is clean. It's when you take it out and look at where that liquid detergent had to basically run down inside the washer that I can't get clean. It's not moldy in there (any more) but the detergent and possibly fabric softener actually crystallized or something. It's so hard I had to chip off the big pieces with a long screwdriver (very carefully. I didn't want to cause MORE problems).

I had used a strong solution of OxyClean early on when trying to fix this smell problem. Is it possible that if I kept doing that like once a week, it would have eventually cured the smell? Maybe. I have no idea. And I did notice the ingredients in Affresh. Affresh has a ton of fragrance in it though.

The folks over at smellywasher.com don't seem to be trying to sell you on maintenance. Like... they aren't trying to get you to buy Purewasher as a maintenance thing. It's to cure a problem and then you're done.

As consumers we just need to be better educated (at least *I* feel like I was not sufficiently educated). The front loaders are a little different from the top loaders. If appliance dealers would make it a point to educate their customers (and you may already be doing this) I think they'd have lots of really happy customers, referrals, and far fewer complaints.

My hope is that going forward I won't NEED Purewasher because I've become a bit smarter about how to use my washer and what detergents to use (and how much is really needed) and despite the fact that I own one of the infamous "417" models... maybe it'll live to a ripe old age. :)

I don't know if this would work for you but have you tried soaking some paper towels with vinegar and laying them over the detergent and softener that has crystallized? Vinegar seems to be able to cut through some tough crud and it may just soften up your junk!

I know it would've been nice if someone had given me some lessons on using my front loader when we first got it!! It isn't any more difficult than using my TL was, just different. I was sooooo guilty of using too much detergent. I am old enough that suds equal cleaning power. It was hard for me to get it out of my head that more suds don't equal better cleaning! The following article explains it the best I have ever read.

Good luck~~ and keep us posted on how it is going!

Here is a link that might be useful: Why Front Load Washers Need HE Detergent

I agree Reikimaster & iasheff, more education. No one gave me those tidbits of advice and honestly, I ran through the manual looking how to use the cycles, but I didn't study it. I have too much in my life going on to sit down and read 5 manuals front to back (I got all new appliances at the same time - plus a microwave). Bullet points are all I need. I think the salesman could do that.

Anyways, my new routine inclues using Oxy Clean with everyload. I just mix it in with my normal Tide HE (need get by Sears to pick up some of there, it just seems Tide is more readily available when I need it!) No fabric softner and trying to dry everything out.

I'll suggest to my friend to email SmellyWasher and let them know so far it hasn't worked.

Good luck!!!

Christy

Thank you to all who offered information. I can't recall now how I stumbled onto this forum but what a treasure! We have dealt with the mold smell for a long time (Maytag neptune)but have been uninformed as to a fix other than replacing the washer. I've just ordered the purewasher product but for a quick fix am running a cycle with dishwasher detergent. In addition I will change to vinegar from the LFS.

Using my Whirlpool Duet FLs, I get stains on my clothes that look like bleach stains except that we do not use bleach. I called for repair and the repairman said to use AFFRESH and that the problem was caused by a buildup of detergent. But AFFRESH seems to be for odor problems, no? Has anyone else had this problem, and if so, what did you do about it?

Thanks for the great information, I have ordered the Purewasher. Just wondering, has anyone tried oxy-boos, they say its a concentrated sodium percarbonate 80-90% as opposed to 50-50% for oxyclean?

Tonya,

Afresh is intended to remove detergent buildup, which happens to be one of the causes of odor.

My wonderful husband bought me the LG tromm FL washer and dyer set for Christmas. The set is not the stackable kind, they are traditional with the controls at the back. A friend of my husband told him all about the mold stuff after we had it in and had used it. I am now very worried about the mold stuff and I am using paper towels to dry it and I have not left the door open, I can't close my laundry room door if I do.
How soon will I be dealing with this mold stuff? I have had such a hard time with powder detergents and residue do I really need to change my detergent from liquid to powder again?
Should I run out and buy Oxyclean now and start using it with every load I do? As for using the vinegar as a fabric softener, which type is used white or apple cider?
I am not able to just run out and buy a new washer when it becomes moldy, should I return this set and go back to the tradtional TL?
I am truly afraid that this washer will be a mess inside of 30 days. Since it is an LG buying Whirl-out might be a good idea? Please let me know that this was not a bad purchase. I appreciate any and all help with this. Thank you.

I wouldn't be too worried about mold issues as long as you make sure not to use too much detergent. Doing hot or sanitary loads at least occasionally also helps to prevent buildups and mold. It would be good to leave the door open to let it dry out when you are done with it for the day. I don't know where your laundry room is located. Would it be possible to leave the laundry room door open over night? Drying the glass and the gasket with a towel or rag is a good start. Maybe you could leave the detergent dispenser slightly open as well?

Regarding detergents, many people feel that powdered detergents work better and cause less buildup. In warmer than tap cold water you shouldn't have a problem with undissolved powder. It is recommended to use HE detergent (powder or liquid) since those are low sudsing and designed to be used in small amounts. Using oxiclean in all cycles is not necessary. I use it for whites and lightly colored or stained clothes. It is not really effective in cold water.

When you use vinegar instead of fabric softener you use plain white vinegar. It helps in getting rid of detergent residues. In high concentration it would be effective against mold, but I doubt that you reach those concentrations in a normal wash.

As long as you are happy with the performance of the washer, I'd say definitely keep it and don't go back to a traditional TL. FLs use a lot less water and energy and wash at least as good as TLs. Enjoy your new washer. It was sweet of your husband to get you that w/d set.
Happy New Year!

Thank you Looser for your kind words and instructions. I will try propping the door to the washer open so that I may close my laundry room door, which BTW is on 1st floor and my darling children (said with only slight sarcasm) gave me a new kitten, so leaving the door to the laundry room open was a concern.
I am so very new to all this FL stuff and how to keep things mold free. I thought about what I did with my old TL and realized that I used to keep the lid up after I used it every time.
I have one more question, What are the measurments for adding the white vinegar as a fabric softener? I am at a loss since with a TL you add tons of stuff to get things clean. With this FL I add almost nothing. Thank you again for all your help I appreciate all of it. Yes, my husband is a sweet man. I am very lucky.
Happy New Year!

You are welcome, I am glad that I can help you. This forum is about people helping each other.

Just propping the door of the washer open with something should be sufficient. I am using a tennis ball with a little slit cut in it so it slides onto the door latch and keeps the door from closing. I got that idea from another garden web user (I think it was jcrowley99) and it really works good. I have had my new washer for 3 months now and don't have any gunk or smells in the washer. This is my first American FL, but I grew up in Germany where traditional TLs don't even exist!

You can use the white vinegar in the same amount you'd add fabric softener. I don't actually measure it. I pour it into the dispenser so that it is somewhere between the minimum and maximum lines. I don't always use it and I have noticed that the clothes come out smelling neutral when I do while there is a slight detergent scent when I don't use it. So it does work, but it is not necessary.

After reading all the discussions here about various additives and methods, some people get the impression that you have to be a chemist in order to correctly use a FL. In reality, FLs are pretty easy to use and need less coaxing than TLs. They just provide more opportunities for "fine-tuning". I think you'll like the washer and I hope you'll have many trouble-free years with it.

Don't know if this is true but maybe someone could confirm, I heard that the liquid detergents (and fabric softeners) used a rendered animal fat by product as the thick liquid base. Is this maybe the reason mold developes with liqiuid detergents much easier than powdered detergents? If this is true would dishwashing powder do a better job of cutting the liquid detergent soap scum on the inner surfaces of the washer?

We had a 15+ year old TL and used both powder and liquid detergents. This TL developed a mold smell and moldy smelling towels. Went to a Bosch Nexxt 500 about a year ago (wife loves it) and no mold yet but have been using liquid HE detergents, liquid softeners, and liquid Oxy-cleen. We are now switching to powder and maybe some type of maintenance cleaning cycle.

FYI, We use Whirlout for our whirlpool tub and the label says safe for septic tanks--not sure if this means it safe for the tank but distroys the bacteria action in the tank.

moose01,

I seems to me after all the reading and running around I've done, that liquid detergents all have stuff in them that eventually builds up in these new, water-saving washers. Rendered animal fats would be one of the ingredients. The liquid fabric softeners have a kind of waxy substance in them. It also seems that people who regularly use oxy-clean don't have a mold/smell problem as often as people who don't.

If it were me, I'd switch to a HE powder. I don't use the detergent dispenser on my washer. I just put the powder right inside before I toss the clothes in. Some of it falls through the holes but it's in there and it gets mixed with the water as the tub fills anyways. If the whirlout label says it's safe for septic that usually means it's ok. I have no idea how much it costs, but I CAN attest to how well the PureWasher works as I have used it. And I had a severe... let me say that again... SEVERE (as in... burns your sinuses) mold/smell problem.

I am now using the Sears HE stain fighter powder, 20 Mule Team Borax, and Oxy-Clean powder. I use about a QUARTER of what the detergent box says to use per load. I add the borax and oxy (not always the oxy) and the total measure of ingredients STILL wouldn't be as much as the detergent box tells me to use. My curernt gut feeling is that my washer is still in a state of recovery. I'm not suggesting that everyone has to mix stuff to do their wash. When the borax is gone I may try for a while without it. I use vinegar in the fabric softener dispenser (that still sounds odd to me, but it works and my clothes don't smell funny so I'm not changing it ... hehehe)

My clothes are CLEANER than they've ever been. In fact... some clothes that had these weird little spots that looked like oil spots are now clean! Things SMELL clean when you take them out of your drawer or closet.

No dryer sheets... I bought a couple of dryer balls. Cut my drying time significantly and even if it sounds like you're drying jousting equipment at first... they seem to work. And my clothes feel good when I wear them.

All this has been noticeable enough that not only did my WIFE remark about how things have improved... my SONS mentioned it too! They are 23 and 25 and as you can probably imagine they have no real interest in laundry. But they noticed and LIKED the difference in their clothes enough to mention it.

So... POWDER detergent... and LESS of it than the directions call for. Start with 1/4 of what they say and go up a little from there but probably no more than HALF of what the package calls for.

NO chemical fabric softener... VINEGAR! It helps to thoroughly rinse the detergent from your clothes (and washer) and I guarantee that you won't smell like a salad. And it's far less expensive than fabric softener.

DRYER BALLS.... just 'cause tehy're fun to say..... no really they do seem to help with static, wrinkles, and they most certainly do cut some off the drying time. And they're CHEAP ( I think $6)

wow..... I ramble like an old man... wait... I AM an old man! (wink)

Well if liquid detergent doesn't work with front loaders somebody better tell P&G because the only thing available in powder is Tide HE and the off-brand stuff at Sears.

My opinion is that this problem is caused by never washing in hot water. Unless these very low fill machines are located right next to the water heater they are never going to get a hot fill.

And thanks to the energy star police, even those machines with heaters won't use them on the "normal" cycles that 90% of consumers will use.

It takes hot water once in a while to keep a machine clean.

Well if liquid detergent doesn't work with front loaders somebody better tell P&G because the only thing available in powder is Tide HE and the off-brand stuff at Sears.

Wrong. Fab powder is low-sudsing, suitable for frontloaders and HE-style toploaders. Fresh Start is also still available. Ariel powder aimed at the Mexican market includes a suds surpressor, although it still can be overdosed if one isn't careful. Then there are the European powders such as Persil, and Amway/Quixtar SA8.

And the "off-brand stuff" at Sears is good stuff according to several people I know who use it in their frontloaders.

My retailer told me that the FL odours are caused by bacterial build up caused by washing in low temperatures - which we all do now to save energy plus detergents are now so much better.

Simply run a boil programme about once every couple on months - on empty.

I had a top of the line Kenmore Elite front loader for 2 years that I paid about $1,400 for. After doing tons of research on the web, and seeing that this mold and odor problem was due to faulty design, I went and bought a top loader and had them take away the front loader. Before this, I did everything recommended to try and get rid of the mold and odor. Nothing worked. This machine ended up costing me a fortune because I had to throw away all of our towels, sheets, and many clothes which were simply ruined by this machine. We are a family of five. The horrible mold odor was so imbedded, it would never come out. My neighbor has a FL, and I notice the smell on her and her kids. She must not be as sensitive as me, or maybe she is just used to it! I will never buy another FL!

Here in the UK the vast majority of folks use front loaders. $1400 seems a heck of a lot to pay - my good quality Bosch cost me around $600 recently.

I have not noticed any nasty niffs on myself or others's clothes - sounds as if you were very unlucky.

Only problem I had was with my last machine which after several years developed some stains on the rubber rim inside the door - did not smell though. This machine was still going strong & i gave it to my daughter. I did not do anything special to it - just threw in the washing, added powder/liquid (whichever happened to be on offer at the supermarket) and away I went.

To prevent the stains with my new machine washing am now setting on boilwash every couple of months & using a descaler at the same time.

I have used quite a few different FLs in Germany and now have a Bosch Nexxt 500plus and I have never experienced musty odors in clothes caused by the washer. However, we have created some smelly clothes (leaving wet towels or clothes in a gym bag for example) and IMO a hot load of a FL is much more effective against the odor than a hot cycle of a TL. My sister used to live in a home that had mold problems and you could definitely smell it in her and her families clothes. Even those get smelling good again after a few cycles in a FL.
I am very sensitive to musty smells. I have had one FL that did collect some gunk in the rubber gasket and it did start to smell musty when I didn't use the washer for a few days (even with the door open). All it took to get rid of it was to clean the gasket with dish soap or vinegar. The inside of the drum did never smell bad neither did the clothes washed in it.
My have had my new FL for three months now and there is not the slightest hint of any musty smells of the boot or drum.
There seem to have been a few washers where the bad smell was due to bad design, but in most cases I believe that it is caused by the user (too much detergent and /or FS, not leaving the door open, not doing hot cycles).

We just bought a Samsung WF337 FL. It replaced the lovely Fisher and Paykel TL machine. The F&P is an engineering marvel, but the Wife wanted to try a TL machine. The machine really cleans well and is quiet. We bought this one over the LG because of the vibration reduction and Silver care. We are hoping that the silver ions in the rinse water will inhibit mold growth. I've talked to several Service Techs and they told me to "prevent mold" as Affresh won't clean up a contaminated Washer. So use Affresh before you have a problem. After seeing the Maytag Neptune pictures of the moldy machine, I could imagine the only solution would be a complete teardown to clean it up.

It's interesting to read about all the mold and mildew problems that people have. I have a 15 month old Maytag MAH2400AWW and matching dryer stack that is in an air conditioned pass through room (6'x4') to the garage. I never use bleach or liquid fabric softener. I use Wisk, All or Purex HE liquid detergents and do about three loads every ten days (one hot). I always wipe down the door and gasket and leave the door open about three inches. I have no odor problems whatsoever. BTW, I live in South Florida.

I ran AFFRESH in my machine this morning just to give it a try. It smells like your run-of-the-mill lemon automatic dishwasher detergent. I suspect that's close to what it is and I'll bet Cascade or any other brand would work just as well at a much lower price.

reikimaster, (response to your Mon Dec 31,07)

I agree with everything you are doing to combat a mold infested washer.
Although we did NOT have a mold infested washer we made the following changes to keep our washer mold free:
1. Changed from liquid HE detergent to powder HE (Tide because it was all that was available). Wife uses about 1/2 amount of detergent recommend on box.
2. Changed from liquid Oxy-Clean to powder Oxy-Clean.
3. Bought PureWasher and ran through a full two wash cycles as instructions recommend with second cycle soak overnight. After the overnight soak the water was clear so I don't think we had any mold. We will run a maintenance PureWasher cycle every month or so just to be safe.
We will look into trying Vinegar instead of FS but the wife always mixed the liquid FS 1:1 ratio with water and the amount was up to the resevior line on the FS compartment of the BOSCH NEXXT 500 washer.
We will also look into dryer balls but don't really have any problem on the dryer side of the laundry.
One other thing that I thinks helped to keep our washer mold free was the Bosch NEXXT 500 eXXtraSanatary cycle that heats the water to 170F for at least 3 minutes. The wife runs this cycle about once a week and it takes close to 2 hours to complete this cycle but I think 170F kills lots of bacteria and burns off detergent scum.
I hope your mold infested washer is now mold free.

reikimaster - why don't you use the dryer sheets? I haven't tried the dryer balls. Although I've heard about them.

I'm still using Tide HE powder and use Oxy Clean powder with every load..... never know when those pesky stains can sneak in. Sometimes I don't use it on delicate stuff, but now it's just habit.

We are leaving our door open more often and try to dry out all the gaskets. I've had my set since mid Oct and haven't noticed any smell, good or bad yet.

Christy

Arm and Hammer Washing Soda. I add 1/2 cup to every load, and since I started doing that, no smell. The bonus is that it is cheap, around $2.50 a box which lasts about a month (I do about 10 loads a week).

I have had an HT Duet washer and Dryer for less than a year and my towels and the drum have been smelling moldy.

I had a repairman come this morning. He says most problems are due to either using the wrong detergent (not He) or using too much.

He ran water without detergent through and it had suds in it, a sign that I am using too much.

His recommendations are:

1. fill your liquid cap (tide etc) only up to the first line.
2. run white vinegar through the machine in hot water.
3. always push the "extra rinse" button for every load.
4. use affresh occasionally

Also, I have a friend who had a "lemon" and hers had to be replaced, but a couple of things repairment told her was to:

1. wipe the drum dry after doing wash for a day
2. leave the door open

We recently bought a new Bosch FL and had to call the factory repairman out. When he noticed we were using liquid detergent he advised us to discontinue using it. He said that the new liquid detergents have a wax base that builds up on the inside of the outer drum. He said that 85 percent of the new machines that are sold in the US have a plastic outer drum and the wax tends to stick to it. With powdered detergents this does not happen. The build up of the wax from the liquid detergents produces a smell in the FL loaders. Affresh will help eliminate the smell, but continued use of liquid detergent will produce wax build up and bring back the smell. You can also use a cup of distilled vinegar or lemon juice in an empty machine and then run the machine again (empty) to clear the machine out in place of Affresh.

Hi - I am trying Affresh tonight for a different reason, though we do have the smell problem with our 10 year old FL. My DH was away for 10 days and washed his clothing in GAIN, which is extremely perfumy and I am allergic to fragrance. We usually use Seventh Generation liquid. I washed the load in our regular 7th Gen detergent, then plain hot water, then baking soda, then lemon juice, then both, then white vinegar, then OxyClean, etc etc. I finally bought a dryer rack and have the clothing out in the sun, rain, whatever for a few days. Next step is to throw them out, but all his polos that he loves are in this load. Now I am trying Affresh to get rid of the fragrance. I will let you all know how it works on the fragrance as well as on the crud smell. We leave the door open or ajar (our Lab is too large to get into the machine so I don't have that worry). REcently I woped the gasket and it was disgusting!
One comment about dryer sheets: they are highly toxic, not just for people like me with chemical sensitivity. A friend of mine is a retired EPA scientist - world known on the topic of indoor pollution - and he has several scientific papers out on this problem.
Also, I might have to look for Seventh Generation fragrance-free powder, and also check to see if the liquid has those waxes, etc. Does anyone know about that?
Thanks
Anne

laundrytech, I had a washer that worked well for many years, and I used bleach at least once a week, usually twice a week. It was still working well when I replaced it to get an HE TL washer that uses less water and electricity, plus has a far-greater capacity.

I've never added the bleach w/the detergent. My first washer didn't have a bleach dispenser, so I mixed the bleach w/water in a quart jar and poured it in 5 minutes after the cycle had begun. My other washers have had bleach dispensers.

When I learned that baking soda doubles the whitening power of bleach (due to a chemical reaction), I started using half the recommended amount of bleach and use that same amount of baking soda. Since I started doing that, my clothes and towels last much longer.

=======================================================

Re: As service tech you all should see what bleach does to a washer machine internally, regardless of % mixed with water, soap, and/or vinegar. the components wont last too long...BLEACH is probably the worst product you can use, bleach actually breaksdown the laundry detergent if introduced to the laundry together, and it also eats fabric...

my head is spinning from all this good information> I am getting my new washer duet 9400 this Friday, so it has no gunk in it yet! I also got some Charlies washing soap powder, some white vinegar and plan on washing in hot water most of the time. Only 4 loads a week. I will run the clean cycle as instructed and leave the door open and wipe it out, I promise. Now should I get oxyclean and put it in with Charlies, or use the affresh once a week or month or something else. Thanks

I am a hairstylist. We use a product in the salon called BARBICIDE. You might have seen it, they usually have it on a counter in a tall jar filled with blue fluid to hold combs and such. Its a disinfectant, a virus ide and fungicide. I found an old water bottle in the back of the ship once and it had mold in it. I poured the Barbicide in and shook it up and you could see the mold peeling away from the bottle. I bet if you wash the gaskets on the washer with this stuff and ran a load with it in the machine- it doesn't foam- that may help kill the molds and fungus. You can buy the stuff in any beauty supply store, try Sally Beauty. I have this problem with mine and now that I see what he cause is I am going to try this!

Where do I find dryer balls for the best price?

I have a front loader and I also wash lots of loads with hot water. I no longer use bleach, but instead use powdered Oxi along with the detergent. Use several different brands of detergent. I always add vinegar to the rinse water. Then I leave my door open all the time so it doesn't take on any odors or mold.

I've just spent 1.5 hours reading through all this great information. Thank you all for taking the time to share.

What I don't see (or remember reading) is if you put the HE powder detergent in the dispenser or not. One person said he put it in the washer itself and threw the clothes in on top. Maybe I'm old school but I was always taught to mix your detergent first.

I welcome all comments. Thanks!

I put my detergent (charlies powder) in the dispenser and let the water flow over it and wash it into the tub... now residue remains in the dispenser, no powder residue on my clothes and the inside of my machne is sparkling... no smell wither 2+ years now...

I do leave the dispenser lid up and the door ajar when done, after wiping down the seal and door.

Seems to me, if you use a proper amount of a detergent that doesn't leave behind residue and minimal to no fs, you shouldn't have a problem... selling a monthly 'fix' is not fixing the problem, but a great marketing technique, IMO

I use Charlie's Soap, and I just toss it in the empty washer then load the clothing. My dispenser sometimes seems to clog slightly, or leave a little of the soap behind, so this is my solution. The Charlie's dissolves well and works just great this way.

I've found the chief location of smelly damp gunk on my front load washer isn't in the basket. It's the lower part of the rubber seal and the mating area of the door and below. Water weeps out when the door is opened after a wash, if not also during operation. Bacteria laden dirt also gets on these areas when loading dirty laundry. The result is smelly damp gunk in areas that never see moving wash water that can remove it. Of course shutting the door will encourage this source of malodor to ferment. If the seal and inner door areas are wiped clean with a soapy sponge _after_ putting laundry in the basket but _before_ running the washer, smelly gunk won't build up there.

Hi, Just wanted to weigh in on this since we've just realized that our 2 yr old TLoader Whirlpool has an odor that won't go away. We had another one that came with the house and used it for 3 yrs with no problem.

Consistent for both machines: I have always left the top open after using; use liquid detergents and then, bleach in at least one load per week; often use a combo baking soda, vinegar, water for a softener in the rinse in our extremely hard water area.

Differences: First machine had hot/warm water rinses, new one has only cold water rinses. Therefore, I suspect this might contribute to the problem.

Action: Called Whirlpool who FIRST suggested vinegar run through a cycle, but also, said there's the Affresh product and sent a sample. I ran all three tablets in three separate loads, as instructed, and am sorry to report that the smell is still there.

Next: As per a post here, I am going to run some Oxi powder through a cycle and also call Whirlpool for more advice.

Thanks, folks.

I had no idea this was such a serious problem until I read this blog. I formulated the cure to this problem four years ago. I even made a special low foam mix for Sears techs so they fix it fast and blow out the crude quick.
I called this problem 'skanky laundry syndrome'. I'll tell you the solution, yet since so many people are bleachaholics you can't have the answer unless you sign my petition to ban toxic cleaners on my web site www.oillift.net sign the petition and you will get an e-mail with the solution. Also, you can read my free book 'How to Kill your cleaning staff'
yes I'm a real person, you can watch me and what I stand for on this you tube video. www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKOCiz1HOqU

If you have cleaning problems I'd be glad to solve them. All I ask is you stop using toxic cleaners and help me save the oceans. cheers Kevin Daum

Here is a link that might be useful: http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/followup.cgi

My front loading Whirlpool Duet washer never smells since this laundry forum taught me before I even bought the set to keep the door open and I always do when not in use. I also dry the rubber seal when I am done doing laundry that day.

This thread is about two years old, but obviously it contains important information.

I bought my HE TL washer (Maytag Bravos) more than a year ago at Home Depot, and the saleslady did advise me to use Affresh -- sounds like some sales people are getting the word out.

Affresh actually came with my washer so I didn't need to buy it. I've used it once. I've always left washers open when not using them, and I've done the same with this one. Maybe because I do use LCB about once a week and use powdered detergent in some loads of laundry (only use HE in all), I haven't had the first whiff of odor.

OTOH, my DIL bought a Cabrio washer and had the odor issue after some time (I believe she was using Gain liquid detergent; I know it was HE formula). She used Affresh, switched from liquid to powder HE detergent, and hasn't had the problem since.

A few months ago, a technician had to come to the house to replace the rubber that's at the front of the washer when you open it. A tiny piece of rubber tore off (don't know how but it was less than 1/2 an inch big) and was causing the water to come out the front door...anyway...Underneath the door there is a panel that you unscrew to remove. There is a little filter and he told me to try to clean it once a month. The odor was coming from that filter. Hope this helps you all!

Great thread!!! Can someone tell me where I can purchase purewasher?

I found Smelly Wash online - is that comperable to purewasher?

I have been using a Front loader for about ten years now, first an ASKO that quit after nine years, and since then a Miele. Never ever had a mold issue. I should add that both washers have very high wash temperatures: the ASKO 200F, the Miele 190F. The outer and inner drum on the Miele is stainless steel.
Why do so many FT now have mold issues? I can see two problems right away: 1) the inner drum which is now often made of plastic; and (2) doing away with strong internal water heaters that bring a hot wash cycle to near boiling. A third candidate may be the detergent, either using too much detergent or the wrong kind of detergent. It appears that liquid detergents leave more residue. Fabric softeners may also carry a little blame.
When I look at the Miele manual the use of Bleach is not recommended, yet in today's FT loaders there is even a compartment for bleach.
It is a shame to see that so many people who did the right thing and bought a more environmentally friendly washer have ongoing problems with their Front loaders. Clearly, the manufacturers need to improve the machines and educate the consumers. To just say use bleach means to shirk responsibility.

I meant to say, 1) the outer drum which is now often made of plastic.

Regarding the above messages:
Certain compact capacity import front load washers (Asko, Miele & Bosch)generally are electrically connected to a single 220 volt connection point. A highly unusual arrangement in the US. As such they are very far and very few. Yes these machines do offer the ability to heat to 190 or higher.

American full size and now many compact & full size imports operate off of a single 120 volt circuit commonly found in the USA. These machines can heat to 140-170 rather slowly. Most laundry does not require these super high temperatures to get clean with good HE detergents. Furthermore, many synthetic or blend fabrics can't withstand these really high temperatures. Only cottons.

Yes the "onus" is the user to comply with the manufacturers recommendations. True on any consumer product. No news there! Using cheap & plentiful clorine bleach from time to time does not seem like a big deal to care for an expensive investment. Clorine is proven to disinfect and deodorize.

You take of it, it'll take care of you!

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