I came across this searching web.
Seems like all new HE washers doing louzy job on rinsing properly.

When I had a Kenmore (Duet-type) front loader I knew it rinsed poorly because I could still smell strong bleach (even using only a 1/3 cup and adding extra-rinse.) With a top-loader I use 3/4 cup bleach and never smell bleach after two rinses or the smell is very,very faint.

Proponents of FLs claim they rinse so much better but I could easily tell that it did not. The only solution seemed to be to use inadequate amounts of detergent so it all rinsed out (but this will eventually cause gray/stained clothes) or run another rinse or two AFTER the cycle is complete which really adds to the wash times.

I don't want another front loader until this is figured out. They either need to use more water during rinse or do a high speed spin in-between every rinse.

The smell of bleach after washing & dryng was so overwhelming, that it smelled like an indoor Eurpean swimpool (any Euros on here, will know exactly what I mean). We switched to Electrolux, and that was only marginally better.

About a month ago, we went back to Miele. At first I was SO disappointed with the rinsing (and the wash water level seemd too low also, even though Miele said it was perfect). I had a Miele Tech come out, and he set the wash levels and the rinse cycles to Water+, and now WOW!! My clothes are SO much cleaner, and during the rinse cycle, there is a prominent and deep water level line on the glass door. The clothes are getting rinsed 2 times in deep, clean cold water. So happy now. I think Front Loaders are not using enough water. I know we ALL need to conserve, but if you have to re-wash and add extra rinses, the it defeats the purpose.

Consider getting the Miele Super Capacity W4840 (next year will be W4842) and change the water level for washes and/or rinses to Water+. You will be VERY happy!!! I am!

I am pretty sure it is 2 rinses. It might be three, but the few times I run in the laundry room to watch the machine change cycles...it seems like it does 2 rinses. I thought that was good, no? Don't top loaders only rinse once? There is a stand alond button that says SENSITIVE, and the Miele tech said it adds addt'l. rinses and water levels. I've only used it a few times, but it adds like 15 or 18 mins (so maybe it adds 2 rinses). Now that my W4840 is set to Water+, I do not need to use the Sensitive setting....the clothes are literally perfect!!

I only use the default 2 rinse standard water level setting on our Miele, and it rinses better than 4 rinses did on our previous machines. I find the extra rinse and water plus features a waste of time and water.

Jon

My Miele does a full spin after the wash, in the cycles I use most often. Some of those cycles do a pretty fast pulse spin between rinses, others do a full spin. And some cycles, like Comforters, don't spin between wash and spin, or between rinses. I and most of the other Miele W4840 owners here are satisfied with its rinsing. I haven't raised the water level on mine.

BTW, the W4840 automatically adds another rinse if you use a spin speed below High, or if it's unable to achieve a good spin after the wash cycle.

It seems to me that at some point, having to rinse and rinse and rinse, again and again and again, nullifies the whole "HE" idea of saving water!

Europe went through this "development" some time ago - obviously, since FLs are the norm over here. In Europe, every appliance is labeled for energy efficiency. Part of this label (on washing machines) is to include the amount of water used for a max load of cotton items. BTW: these "cotton items" are basically standardized cotton sheets - for the sake of reproducibility. Anyways, about ten years ago, you could buy washers that would only use 10 gal. for a full load of 11 lbs. Needless to say, rinsing performance was abysmal. Manufacturers even went so far as to eliminate rinses (two rinses instead of three) from the one cycle that was used for the energy label so they could say: look how little water our washer uses!

Fortunately, rinsing performance tests are included in washing machine tests today. This also led to a, kind of, countermovement on the part of appliance manufacturers. Water consumption went up again and washers do an all right job rinsing.

Just some examples: Miele washers offer to add an extra rinse or more water for the rinse or both to the cycle. The TOL Bosch/Siemens washer offers up to three extra rinses. Samsung washers, too. LGs can add two extra rinses or a Medic Rinse, which heats the final rinse to 104°F.

So, I just hope that, eventually, US manufacturers realize the need for better rinsing - like the Euro manufacturers did years ago. In the meantime, all one can do is adjust the water level switch on ones washer, if possible, to get good rinse levels.

Here's our European Electrolux washer, on which I adjusted the water level to give me proper rinsing. This pic was taken today on a hot quick wash cycle which makes up for the lack of the third rinse by adding extra water.

Alex

The Wash cycles, also set to Water+, have no where near the same water level as the rinses though.

I have noticed a tremendous difference in my clothing, bedding and towels now that my rinse levels are higher.

YES! At least in my case. I have a 5 year old Duet which I adjusted the water levels with the screw which took a lot of trial and error. My Duet had water levels this high at one point and the clothes were just rolling around in the water. I could tell this was way too much water. I want more water, but not that much more. I think it also has a lot to do with the baffles. Most of these HE machines don't have large baffles due to low water usage so when there is a lot of water in there, the clothes just roll. I have my Duet set to use what I think to be the perfect amount of water. Just below the rubber seal and it seems to work great.

The next machine I buy will have an option for a deeper rinse though. Low water washing is fine, but not rinsing.

Alex

Thanks for the post. I thought it was just me and I was loosing my mind.

deutsch100

Thanks for what you posted about having the water level adjusted. I think I will call the manufacturer of mine and see if that can be done to mine too without violating my waranty.