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Miele vs Miele

Posted by peteyjd (My Page) on
Wed, Sep 26, 07 at 13:42

I am trying to decide between a Miele 120V ( W4840) and a Miele 208V-240V (W1215 or W1213). My brother has a W4840 and on a resent visit I took my very dirt socks and a tea-stained tea towel along together with some Persil Megaperls. I threw the book at the filthy socks and used a prewash, the extended cycle, and sanitize. Now the socks, and I should mention that I hike through dirt, sand, and mud in white gym socks, got cleaner than when new. However the tea stain endures. The woman at one of the appliance stores I haunt said she has an older Miele that uses 220V and heats to 190' F. She said she doesn't use paper towels, but instead uses tea towels for all her kitchen needs. And then just tosses them in the Miele at 190' and they come out perfectly clean and white. Now I don't want to be in a position of not trusting a sales person, God forbid, but has anyone else had this experience with their Miele? Or to put it another way, can 190' get out tea and other very tough stains?

Also there is a rumor that the w1215 and w1213 are to be replaced in North America be a new model within the year. Someone on this site mentioned it. Anyone know anything about this? Is it just a rumor?

I live in San Francisco, California. And have soft water

Thanks

P


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Miele vs Miele

Dear P, I just purchased a model 1213 about a month ago. I haven't tried the sanitize cycle but my German neighbor has. She has lots of beautiful linens which she uses almost daily. The W&D in her rental are not so good, so she brought a load of items that didn't come clean over and ran them through the Miele. She was thrilled with the results. I was amazed laundry could make anyone so happy.

When I was shopping for a W&D, I called the Miele showroom in San Francisco. They are just a showroom and don't sell, but they have machines available and the person I spoke with encouraged me to bring in a test load. You might try that.

With regard to a new model, the person did say that the 1213 (5kg) was being replaced. However, he said he didn't expect to see a new model until at least the end of 2007 but more likely 2008 because Miele was focusing on introducing their refrigeration products, if my memory serves.

We decided we couldn't wait for the new model but I'd suggest calling the showroom. I haven't spoken with them for a month or more and they might have updated information.


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RE: Miele vs Miele

Miele is replacing all 220v washers with 110v units pretty much now. We have started ordering w3033 units and received a few already. If you want a 220v you should get one now as they are gone in some markets already


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RE: Miele vs Miele

Just curious. Is the w3033 the replacement for the 1213 I just purchased? What is the capacity?


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RE: Miele vs Miele

The 12XX series is 6K


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RE: Miele vs Miele

the w3033 is actually the replacement for the w1113 the standard capacity unit. the w1213 has a replacement but we haven't seen that unit just yet. i'll try and find out the model number if I can. and as far as capacity i was always told that the standard unit measures 5kg or about 11lbs(1.8cf?) and the larger w1213 is a 6kg or 13lbs(2.1cf?) give or take a bit


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RE: Miele vs Miele

joboxes,
Thanks for responding. I made a mistake. I actually purchased the w1113, 5 kg. So it sounds as if I was misinformed by the person at the Miele showroom about the nature of the new models. He said the new model to replace the w1113 would have the same footprint, but be able to handle 6 kg. We do a lot of laundry, but the depth of the unit was critical to our installation. Glad I didn't think about waiting for the new model.


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RE: Miele vs Miele

Not sure I Understand the last post but if you want a 6K you can buy the 1213 or the 1215 which is 6K and still uses 208-240V.

Perhaps the new models will have the same size as the current 5K or 6K but will use 120V. I can understand this since most people in the U.S.A don't use 220V to wash their clothes but I prefer the 220V heater.

190F can remove stains, but a lot of this depends on how old the stain is, and if the item can even take 190F. All cotton can, but any cotton that has spandex, (for example the seams around T shirts or tightie whitie under wear) will quickly go south and become unuseable.

Also I also pretreat stains regardless of what temperature I am going to use. I put some shout on it and toss it in.

The older 240V units start with cold water if you use the prewash option and then gradually heat it for the prewash. This helps some stains come out. I am not sure the newer models do this in their prewash. The older models are not expecting you to use LCB and have no bleach dispener. The new model is expecting you to use bleach for stains and contains a LCB dispenser.


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RE: Miele vs Miele

jerrod6,
When I spoke with the Miele showroom, I wasn't interested in the debate between 120 vs. 220. I was interested in capacity. Since our installation was driven by depth limitation of the W&D, it would have been nice to get 6 kg of capacity in the same depth as the older Miele with 5 kg of capacity. However, I was simply saying that it looks like the only change in the newer models is from 220 to 120. Since I have the 220 model, I'm happy. Better 190F than 6 kg.


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RE: Miele vs Miele

OK I understand. What I was trying to say is that there IS a 6K model using 220V with almost the same footprint as W1113 5 K machine. The corresponding 6K is the W1213 or W1215 and these go to 190F. I hope I am helping and not confusing.

check out the miele.com site and you will see these machines.


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RE: Miele vs Miele

The 12XX series goes to 95C or 203 fahrenheit (NOT 190F)

More incorrect info on this site.


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RE: Miele vs Miele

Thanks Robert


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RE: Miele vs Miele

The new Miele washers are up on Miele's web site


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RE: Miele vs Miele

yea my store complained that the new units werent up

i did find out that w3033(and related but yet unavailable 3035 &3039) are actually the only units coming out. They replace both units and are actually a little more than 5.5kg units that use the 5kg foot print.

so in other words larger drum same foot print for the 5kg...no actual replacement for the true 6kg unit


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RE: Miele vs Miele

oh and 158F is the highest the 120V machine will hit


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RE: Miele vs Miele

So I guess my territory sales rep was correct when he stated that there would not be a 6K unit and that they would be 120V.

I can understand why this would do this from a marketing persepctive, but I am glad I have my 6K W1986.


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RE: Miele vs Miele

Looks like the 30xx has the same control panel layout/user interface as the bigger 48xx series. Will be interesting to hear if this series borrowed the no-heater-in-normal feature present in the 48xx firmware.

If you pop-up the control panel window for the 3033 on the Miele website it shows an english language face plate with a non-english language LCD display with a cycle running at 1600 rpm spin whereas the 3033 spins out at 1300 rpm. Looks like Miele is continuing to give the best goodies to buyers in non-North American markets.

Given Miele's niche, I don't understand their product line going 100% to 120V-15A. This move might end-up helping Asko sales.


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RE: Miele vs Miele

I agree that this might make ASKO look good, but ASKO is heading down the same road

I recently saw the AD for their upcoming 3.8cf 27" wide US spec washer and have heard they may make the switch.

Miele's only downside is that they have never fully commited to the US market and unlike Bosch haven't given design freedom to the designers of their US-spec appliances.

Having Die-Hard German engineers building what they "think" americans will want is a pretty idiotic way of doing things


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RE: Miele vs Miele

I talked with someone from Miele who mentioned that they test their machines in the U.S.A and from that they get feedback and some of the designs are being based on that.
Too bad they didn't include folks on this forum.

No need for high temps when we all use chlorine bleach and if you think most don't just go to the supermarket and look at the shelves loaded with bleach so we can sanitize everything in sight. PRESTO the new ones have LCB dispensers, 120V heaters and lower temps.

There is also the fact that most people don't care about the features found on the older Miele machines. Folks coming to this forum do, but the general consumer public just doesn't.

Go to the Miele site in Australia and you will see 5K machines with spin speeds up to 1600rpms. Not these newer 30XXX... only 1300. Then again we have to have laundries on the second floor so we don't have to walk anyplace...of course our 2nd floor new house construction can't take it.

I think Miele needs to scrap the feedback coming from the U.S.A and go back to giving us the same good features they give the rest of the world. Instead we are getting dumbed down designs many based on U.S.A feedback.

The business-market side of me says that Miele has adjust to the overall market it is dealing with. Just my comment.


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RE: Miele vs Miele

Obviously the second part of my original question is moot, as events have overtaken us. However I think I could still find a dealer that has a 208v-240v machine in stock, or maybe get a PW6065 ( ya, right). But I am still interested in the first part: using Persil, can a washer that goes to 190' get truly tough stuff out like tea stains?

Thanks

P


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Washing Machine as Status

I think Miele sees an opportunity to transform themselves into *the* vanity brand for washing machines. In other appliance categories such as cooktops there are tons of ultra high-end very high priced players going after gourmet kitchen remodels. There is a real lack of washing machine manufacturers who exude that same expert-level cachet. Clearly this is territory owned my Miele, and with a bit greater accessibility (via 120V and big capacity) more people can have a washing machine with that same level of distinction as you see with cooktops. This is not to suggest that the quality isn't still there, it's just that image plays a much bigger role. These new buyers aren't the real expert users typified by people like Molly (a.k.a. housekeeping). They want the washing machine to be the expert.


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RE: Miele vs Miele

You should be able to find a 5 or 6kg model (240v) still but you may need to do some searching. We're a big dealer in my area and we've already had a few people calling around for the machines (the 11xx series specifically, makes me think th 12xx series is more plentiful)


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RE: Miele vs Miele

But will it get tough stuff out? As I said the w4840 got my socks very clean. It just missed a tea stain. Will a 240v get that stain? How well does high heat work?

Thanks


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RE: Miele vs Miele

I am making a cautious reply here. I have gotten tea stains removed using PERSIL megaperls for whites, but I didn't use 190F I think I used 140F and a prewash that started with tap cold water. I have removed chocolate at 140F with the cold prewash first.

I have used 190F to remove oily stains and to wash cleaning cloths with success.

I think it depends on several factors such as how long the stain has been present, if the garment haspreviously been washed and dried so that the stain has become set, and if the fabric is 100% cotton or it contains some synthetic materials.

Are you trying to decide between models?


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RE: Miele vs Miele

Well, that's it. You just put your finger on my problem. I am trying to decide between models. As I said in my original post I used my brother's W4840 with a cold prewash and the sanitize cycle (158'-160'). It did a great job on my socks. I've never seen them whiter, and I can get them truly dirty. But the tea stain didn't come out. I knew when I washed it that it had probably been through the dryer, but I had to try anyway. So with that stain it is probably spot bleach with a weak chlorine bleach (and no Persil, as oxygen and chlorine bleach count act each other). But then I talked to this very nice woman at the appliance store. She said, as I said in the first post, that her 240v could get that kind a stain out. However I may not have made it clear that it went through the dyer. But now Miele has changed the playing field by getting rid of the 240v machines. So I don't know if it matters now. What worries me is if I get a W4840 and have something I can't get out, the only thing I can do is chlorine bleach. Which I guess I could live with, but would prefer to have other options. Also does the W4840 heat water at all temps? 140' for example. Someone was saying something about it not using it's heater to make it's energy numbers look better.

Thanks


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RE: Miele vs Miele

re: "Also does the W4840 heat water at all temps? 140' for example. Someone was saying something about it not using it's heater to make it's energy numbers look better."

Do a search on the user "crooks101" and you'll find some extensive posts on the heater issue. Simplified recap is that in normal cycle it doesn't use the internal heater even though it allows you to choose temps well above what most domestic hot water supplies can deliver. In other cycles it does use the heater. Can't understand why Miele did this because energy star factors in the cost to heat the water whether it's using it's internal heater or an electric domestic supply so not using the internal heater doesn't give them an advantage.


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RE: Miele vs Miele

I am not going to tell anyone what to buy. We all have different situations. Many on this forum are having good success with the 4840. It seems like if you need the jumbo capacity then it would be OK and you can get the heater to work just not on normal. I think older Whirlpools don't use their heater on normal either.

I don't need a washer the size of a house. I separate clothes by fabric and color especially since higher temps can remove dyes faster, and will also cause anything with spandex to quickly deteriorate. I do wash comforters in my 6K with no problem but that depends on the bulkiness of comforters. So in the future if I need a new comforter I won't buy a bulky one.

The 5 and 6k machines have been in use for many years in the U.S.A and all over the world, but it is only here in the U.S.A that we feel that things must be big to get things done.

I understand the idea that 20 sets of jeans can be washed at one time. I also understand that folks want to wash comforters, but I also find that I can wash larger loads in my 6K machine than I could in my super capacity top loader and they get cleaner.

So I guess it depends on what your needs are.

If you sort your laundry are you going to wash the equivalent of 20 pairs of jeans in each load?

Here's my trick. If I have a particularly large load, one with heavy soil, I will use the extended cycle which washes and rinses longer. Otherwise I don't need extended; things get clean with the regular shorter cycle. If the load is large and dirty and can take higher heat I use the regular short cycle and increase the temperature. if the load is small the machine reduces the cycle times and everything still gets clean. so there are a lot of variable you can play around with the achieve the result you want.

The new 5.5K washers are 120V so that it will be easier for folks to install them..but they don't heat to 200F either.

Will the older 220V models continue to be sold or phased out?

I paid $75 to have the 220V line run from the electric box to the machine. Do you already have 220V? Are you willing to pay for it to be installed?

I have not needed to use LCB since having my FL. Are you willing to LCB for heavy stains?

Regular use of LCB is not recommended (or needed for cleaning) for the smaller ones because I think they contain a SS outer drum while the newer units do not. Does this matter to you?

This is a new model only released to the U.S.A. I am sure Miele does a good job of production and testing but do you want to buy version one of anything or would be be better to wait for release two? Sure incremental changes have been made to the smaller units but the basics and footprint have not changed that much so they must be on version 150.

The smaller previous miele models contain some of the same cycles the 4840 does, difference is they are smaller, use 220V and can heat the water hotter and faster.

So like I mentioned every ones situation will be different.
For me - I have had my washer(W1986) wince 2003 and there is nothing wrong with it. So I don't need a washer and plan to keep this one and have it repaired as needed for as long as possible. I do like having the option of higher temps, higher rinse levels and water consumption if I want it.

This is a minor thing but I like the heavy SS door and lock on my machine too.

Situations will vary. Do what is right for you.


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RE: Miele vs Mile

jerrod6 is right. I had the Miele W48xx and now HE5t. I almost never filled either one. Nor do I think I really would want to do it- either for Miele or Kenmore. Are they really built to commercial load standards for the very heavy load. If yes, then why does Miele want over $5k for a smaller commercial set? Twenty pairs of cotton jeans is a lot of any machine. And then you have the sorting issue. Unless you have a very large family, the smaller machines really work out well. It is hard to believe until you use one. She just have to take the large comforters to a commercial machine. I really don't think even the large H35T (or Miele would do a king sized one anyway). I think the Miele even said full size only.

If could found one, the older "real" Miele small FL washer with full controls and a large American tumble dryer would be just a optimal. Sound like the only options in the future will be the "Little Giants" small and over 5K, but full controls.

I really like the larger dryers. I can even tell how much better the Kenmore 7CF is over the Miele T9800 6.4CF. The LG and Samsung 7.3CF must be a cavern.


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RE: Miele vs Miele

HELP! I bought a used Miele W1218, love it, but someone in the household accidentally mixed something red with a batch of white towels, socks, underwear, etc. Since I'm not supposed to use chlorine bleach, how do I rewash the tainted whites and get the red out?

Thanks to everyone in advance.
Barry


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RE: Miele vs Miele

Barry,

I hope the items dyed red have not been dried in a dryer, yet, as that will make the dye run much harder to reverse.

There are products for sale in grocery stores that are intended to reverse dye runs. They are sold in little pots near the Rit fabric dyes or on the shelves near regular detergent specialty products.

However, for starters you could also soak the items in a bath tub with chlorine (or even non-chlorine) bleach added to water, then drain, rinse and carry the items to the washer in buckets and rewash as usual.

I have older Miele machines which have double stainless steel wash tubs and I occasionally have used Clorox with no ill effects on the machine despite the scare stories here. My owners' manual does not specifically prohibit it either and Miele C/S has confirmed to me that occasional use of Chlorine products will not harm the machine.

Please keep in mind a couple of things, though: chlorine bleaching is hard on your garments and for that reason routine bleaching should be avoided except in very special circumstances and it is hard on the environment, as well. And remember that unlike a big top loaders that might have 10 gallons or more of water in the wash phase, your Miele only has a fw gallons in it at any one time, so adjust (downward) the amount of chlorine you're using to protect against having too-high a concentration that might harm your garments or the machine.

The ability to monitor and adjust and rinse as needed during the bleaching process is one reason I prefer to do my occasional bleaching in a laundry tub rather than sealed up in the machine.

Molly~


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RE: Miele vs Miele

One thing I'd like to throw in here in r.e. stains... Those that have 240V machines that are hooked up to hot water, might not be getting the best results even with a cold prewash, as the main wash fills with hot. Thereby setting some stains. I have an older W1926, but this would apply to all 240V machines. I use a Y adapter and have cold fill going to both lines on my machine, so it gets a cold fill no matter the cycle and heats the water itself completely. This is the best setup IMO to get stains out (true profile wash). However, it looks like in the future this will sadly no longer be possible with the newer machines... I recently found a store with one last W1215 on sale for $1299.00 While I usually wouldn't want the stainless finish... I better snap it up or never have a 240V Miele again... (sighs) :(


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