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Miele T9802 Service Call :(

Posted by sshrivastava (My Page) on
Fri, Sep 23, 11 at 12:03

Well, I have contacted Miele to schedule my first service call for my Miele T9802 dryer. It has recently developed a very loud noise when reverse tumbling. The noise is internal and sounds like a vibration of some sort. It only happens once the unit heats up, so reverse tumbles at the beginning and end of the cycle do not make this noise - only once the unit has heated up. This makes me think it is a metal part or panel that, once it heats up and expands, causes this vibrating noise. Other than this, both units (washer and dryer) are functioning perfectly. I've checked the rigid duct, placed my hand on all external metal areas, and have isolated the vibration noise as internal and not related to any external parts or attachments.

FYI, Miele did not have my 2-year warranty on file. My "authorized" installers forgot to fax in the paperwork in 2010! So I had to track them down and ask them to re-fax the documents to Miele. However, even without this warranty extension on file, Miele volunteered to comp the service call. Still a bummer that it's making a weird noise that requires service. Stay tuned!


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Miele T9802 Service Call :(

There are two drum contact brushes that ride along bands on the drum's outer surface to communicate the moisture readings. I wonder whether they have worn out? It will be interesting to learn what happened.


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RE: Miele T9802 Service Call :(

Sorry Sstava! When ever I have had to have Miele service, they are great & issues get repaired quickly and correctly! I have never had to have a Miele tech come back for the same issue, in over 15 years with owning Miele appliances (the hugely vast majority, NEVER needing repair in the first place).

Keep us posted, and just feel confident that you have the best appliance service in the world coming!!!


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RE: Miele T9802 Service Call :(

This issue is definitely related to vibration. When it was reverse tumbling and I could hear the vibrating noise, I grabbed the dryer and tilted it slightly to the side. The sound disappeared. I am pretty sure this is a vibrating metal panel or part, as it only happens when the unit heats up. I started looking for a star wrench to pop the top of the dryer to have a peek inside - but if I'm still under warranty, is it worth risking doing this?


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RE: Miele T9802 Service Call :(

If it is still under warranty, I would not touch it. Otherwise, the warranty may be voided. Not worth the risk, if it were mine.


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RE: Miele T9802 Service Call :(

* UPDATE *

The service technician came and went. I have mixed feelings about the service call. When I described the problem, he said he knew right away what was causing it - excess detergent build-up in the DRYER of all places. So he took off the top and front panels, and ran his hand around the impeller and showed me what looked like DUST on his hand. Well of course there would be dust in the machine - it's been running for over a year and I have four dogs and four cats. He tried to tell me that the dust inside the dryer was from detergent residue in my clothes. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

He replaced the "felt seal" and also the impeller assembly, however the noise continued. He then said he needed to replace the rear drum seal, but needed to order the part. He said this noise is caused by the drum rubbing on a seal that has been impacted by this fabulous "residue" that he talks about. Let's call it what it is... DUST! As he was wrapping up his appointment, he proceeded to tell me that Miele does not cover "oversudsing" in its warranty, but because Miele set it up as a warranty call it will be honored as such. The technician went through my service codes on the machine, found that it oversudsed one time, and used that as springboard to tell me that this is a detergent issue.

While the service technician was polite and took care not to damage anything (he wore the booties), he seemed to want to blame me for the problem. He tried to tell me that I should be using 0.75-1.0 TBSP of detergent. I told him that when I reduce the amount, I see a residue on my glass, and he told me that is excess detergent residue. I said no, it's not, because when I use more detergent the residue goes away. He just shrugged his shoulders.

I am seriously getting the feeling that Miele does try to blame the user for problems that are in no way their fault. I asked the technician to look at the design of the lint filter - it has a lot of room around it which allows small particulate dust to get through. The color of the dust inside the machine would appear to match the lint. But regardless, any dryer is going to have dust inside - whether due to the design of the lint filter or the air intake. I don't see how Miele could design a dryer that is so sensitive to particulate dust. I'm not convinced he even really knows what is causing the problem.

So, now I'm waiting for this "rear drum seal" part. In the meantime, my dryer is still noisy when hot and reverse tumbling. It's covered under the warranty, but they did try to blame my detergent dosage for the issue. Never mind the fact that my rinses are always crystal clear and the one time my machine oversudsed was due to using Vaska with towels on HOT. Bad idea. But that is no reason to blame the user for a problem that clearly has nothing to do with detergent.


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RE: Miele T9802 Service Call :(

Wow! I think this is a first. A dryer problem is being caused by the user + the washing machine.

Perhaps Miele recommends 1 Tbs of detergent for their smaller machines, but for the 48XX series? Come on!

At least you aren't left high and dry without laundry equipment. Hope it gets fixed soon.

MRB


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RE: Miele T9802 Service Call :(

This reminds me of the runaround I received with we first started having issues regarding our Miele setup. I heard every excuse regarding what "I" was doing wrong, all the way to "you don't understand how to use your machines". Well, Miele ate crow on all they told me. I thought they were improving matters, but maybe I'm wrong? Bottom line: I told them they were full of crap and started calling them on the carpet until they conceded matters for what was their issues to begin with! Many of these came out here at this forum by others too.

The oversudsing has to be a new low for Miele in the BS department. My wife and I recently purchased a new Miele dishwasher, but not the top-of-the-line model as we are planning on custom building our next home and wish to install the better model into that residence. I will not even begin to tell what we just encountered with Miele when we purchased it, but all I can say is that Miele starts with a list of conditions that are not even specified or in writing as a front line to their BS. We still like Miele appliances; however, there are limits to dealing with Miele.

I do like the Miele Techs I've encountered. Once you get past the company protocol rubbish, they are very helpful in resolving issues and adding further insight into how to better use your machines. Now, Miele USA, back East...well that is another matter.


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RE: Miele T9802 Service Call :(

I decided not to rock the boat since I wanted this guy's help to resolve the issue. However, once this repair is resolved I will give Miele a piece of my mind. There are so many things wrong with this... first, he is telling me that Miele does not extend warranty coverage to issues related to oversudsing, and by using more than 1 TBSP I am the cause of the problem. Miele is basically saying that they will not honor the warranty if you use the machine AS INSTRUCTED in the manual, which says to "follow the detergent manufacturer's recommendations". So following the instruction manual is the best way to void your warranty? Really? And simply seeing an oversudsing error code in my washer is taken to mean that every load for the last 18 months has been oversudsing which is clearly not the case. I had an issue ONE TIME.

And how can the technician claim that the dust in the dryer is detergent residue, and use that as a basis to deny a warranty claim? Really? Did the technician analyze this mysterious residue? What did the lab say? Where is there any proof of the technician's claims? You should have seen how purple and red in the face I got as the conversation wore on. I am not the type of person to just hold things in - I'm sure many here would agree! LOL


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RE: Miele T9802 Service Call :(

I am truly sorry you are having these problems - fighting with appliances and service people is no fun. However, as an owner of a Whirlpool W/D that cost less than half of what you paid (I think) that has worked flawlessly for almost 5 years I would like to take this opportunity to gloat - just a little.

Ok - I am done. Best of luck with your machines. Make sure you let Miele know what you think. I also read the Appliances forum and it appears that some of these high-end firms are cutting back and not providing the kind of products and service they used to. Sign of the times, I guess, but if you pay a premium you should get top-notch service.

Gotta go - need to go look for a new refrigerator. A regular, normal, non-fancy one. I guess 12 years is all you get from them these days.


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RE: Miele T9802 Service Call :(

My primary concern is whether this "technician" is noting my account/file that the problem was caused by me, when it clearly wasn't. I hope technicians don't have that level of power. For him to conclude that the problem was caused by "detergent residue" because he found dust inside my dryer is, in no way, a valid conclusion. If Miele says anything to me about this, I will make it very clear to them that unless they had the dust analyzed to reach that conclusion, I expect my service issue to be resolved at Miele's expense.

If anything, the technician should have first addressed the question of whether there is an air leak inside the machine. For there to be dust beyond his expectations points to a leak in the air flow, letting dust and lint into the interior of the machine. That is a far more likely scenario than mysterious fairy dust miraculously beaming itself from inside the dryer into the bottom of the machine. Right?

Anyway, they are supposed to come back out to replace the "rear drum seal", but I still suspect it's a vibrating metal part. The technician didn't even listen to where the noise was coming from - he just started replacing everything that had dust on it. Perhaps I should contact Miele and request a different technician - one who is less fanatical in his beliefs.


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RE: Miele T9802 Service Call :(

Did the tech use his PC to read your washer? Is so, it also tells you how many times a fault occurred; you can clear the fault readings without the PC. The oversudsing feature is intentional so that machine can stop and handle the oversudsing overflow collected in a pan at the bottom of the washer.

Love the "dust" nonsense. The dryer intakes, from the bottom: unfiltered air. If detergent residue is a legitimate issue then why hasn't Miele designed their seals to guard against such residue?


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RE: Miele T9802 Service Call :(

I think blaming 1) the user and 2) the detergent, in that order, is the best way for Miele to hide possible defects in its designs and to "quietly" fix their units in the field without a consumer backlash. It's funny how in the same breath the technician said it's residue, not normally covered, but what the hell we will cover it. If it were really a non-warranted item, then Miele certainly would not cover it. Think about it... Miele realizes it shipped dryers with defective air seals and quietly does a field upgrade while at the same time telling consumers it's their fault. This behavior is consistent with what I've experienced.

Why else would the technician have replaced not only the felt seal, but also the air impeller assembly? The vibration only happens in reverse, so it's obviously not the impeller - yet that was replaced along with the seal that seemed to have so much "residue" on it. Now the rear seal is being replaced. Lots of seals being replaced... makes you wonder.


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RE: Miele T9802 Service Call :(

Miele wanted to charge me $500 to replace a pump on a 3 year old dishwasher saying that I didn't use the machine enough. Laughable. Imagine car makers charging you to replace an engine because you didn't drive it enough. I've never heard of home appliances that break for lack of usage. We have owned appliances that have spanned 30 plus year life spans and this has never been an issue. I find it ludicrous when faulty design is blamed on the user, and if this dishwasher pump is stuck for lack of usage, then there is something wrong in its manufacture and design.

Not to change the subject, but when the premier appliance manufacture doesn't this kind of BS to their loyal customers (I own two households of their appliances, not even counting the numerous purchases by friends and family who brought based on my recommendations), it is infuriating - so I totally know where sshrivistava is coming from.


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RE: Miele T9802 Service Call :(

I suspect Miele would not survive a legal challenge if it declined warranties by citing usage patterns that are completely consistent with the instructions in their user manuals. For instance, the user manual for the W4842 states to follow detergent manufacturer recommendations, while the technician who was here tried to tell me that I need to ignore that and use closer to 1 TBSP (ridiculous). In my case, the technician was stating that even though I've been following the instructions, it's still somehow my fault.

At this point I'm pretty sure there is a defect in the air seals of the W4842. I've had mine now for 19 months and it took this long for the noise to develop. The amount of linty dust inside and along the bottom of the machine also points to a seal issue. I guess it's better for Miele to call it "residue" because if they called it what it was - lint - they would have to admit a problem.

One week after my initial service call I'm still waiting for the rear drum seal part to arrive. I live in the metro Phoenix area, so I am interested to know why it's taking more than a week to obtain a relatively simple rubber seal.


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RE: Miele T9802 Service Call :(

sshrivastava,

Who is your Miele Tech? Have you used Adam Samford? (Provided he's still there.)


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RE: Miele T9802 Service Call :(

@ fahrenheit_451

Yes, it was Adam Samford who was at my service appointment. I just called Miele for an update, they said they may need to get this part from Germany. WOW! Really? Apparently nobody in the USA has this rear drum seal. Lovely.


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RE: Miele T9802 Service Call :(

@sshrivastava, clearly you're the only one in the USA that is over dosing your detergent ... lol ... ;)

I'll be interested to see if I develop this issue (oh I hope not). I'm very careful with my dosing and I rarely use a full dose as I rarely have a full drum.


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RE: Miele T9802 Service Call :(

I would expect the machine to be able to handle an overdosing of detergent. They aren't made of sugar afterall.

MRB


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RE: Miele T9802 Service Call :(

* UPDATE *

It's fixed! The rear drum seal was the culprit, no more moaning/vibrating when the machine is reversing. Granted, this was not an urgent situation or an emergency by any means since my dryer was still drying properly. However, from first appointment to final resolution this issue took 4 weeks. Yes, a full month. Just another data point to consider!


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RE: Miele T9802 Service Call :(

I am a retired attorney and used to work in the area of lemon law, mainly for vehicles. I can tell you in the automotive area, manufacturers most certainly do take the word of repair people as gospel. Whatever a tech writes in your file is considered fact. Whatever a tech doesn't write in your file is presumed not to have occurred. These folks have an inordinate amount of power. Courts too will look at the records from service calls as being evidence.

The only way around this is to document everything and to send in a copy of whatever your side of the story is. Companies often back off if they discover the consumer is standing up for themselves.

When I bought a new car, if I had a problem that needed servicing, I put down all the complaints in writing and handed it to the tech. It might not help them fix the issue, but I know I will never hear the manufacturer say "you never told us that something was wrong" or "the tech says this occurred and we have no way of knowing if what you say happened." I review the service records carefully and if I don't like the way they have documented what occurred, I correct it in writing.

In general, corporations are less likely to mess with a consumer that has been communicating in writing.

One more thing...if you can communicate with the company via email or a chat window, do so. I can't tell you how many customer service people don't realize what they say in an email or chat is considered put in writing. Weird, huh? In fact, if you are chatting with someone in a chat box, try this experiment: ask them if they will put whatever they just told you in writing. 9 out of 10 times they will tell you they are not allowed to put it in writing. (not sure how they think they are having that conversation if not in writing, but whatever.) Either way, you will have a record of whatever insane things some customer service rep tells you and you can use the copy of that conversation to get the company to stand by the word of that representative.

I just went through that exact situation with an online company. Copied and pasted the whole conversation and suddenly they were willing to stand by their offer. Really helps save you from pulling your hair out when a later supervisor tells you "I am sorry so and so told you that, but that is not our policy." I just reply, well, it is your policy now and ask where she would like me to send a copy of the transcript of my "conversation." (My firm also did something similar when they tried to back out of an offer they made me in person. I confirmed it all via email. Months later that email came in mighty handy and shut them right up.)

(Just make sure you NEVER use the word "lawyer" or "sue" in any correspondence! The company goes into turtle mode and panics. You can't get a thing resolved after that!)

I am glad you got your situation resolved. There is nothing I hate more than a company that tries to wriggle out of their obligations by blaming the consumer.


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RE: Miele T9802 Service Call :(

@ JenniferHyatt

Thank you for that wonderful information! I will follow your recommendation. Miele sent me an automated update to my service call, and included a PDF file with a summary of the service and comments entered by the technician. He actually put in his comments that there was detergent residue in my dryer, blamed me and my use of Tide HE liquid, and stated that he counseled me on appropriate detergent dosage (which, by the way, is 100% contrary to the printed instruction manual).

I will send Miele a letter pointing out these inaccuracies, and I will also let them know that whatever dust the technician found inside the machine cannot be considered residue unless it was actually tested by a lab and proven to be such. This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever experienced!


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RE: Miele T9802 Service Call :(

Perhaps you should collect a small quantity of this dust and include it in the envelope with your letter so they can test it.

On second thought, maybe not!

MRB


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RE: Miele T9802 Service Call :(

* UPDATE *

Problem is NOT fixed. The dryer is making the same noise this morning, after sounding fine for three days. I just called Miele service and gave them an earful. They have sent this to the regional manager to get this taken care of ASAP. Obviously the service technician who came out here, started replacing my seals and impeller willy-nilly, and a month later the dryer still makes the same vibrating noise.

Gee, you idiot, I guess it's not detergent residue after all is it? I am NOT impressed with Miele service. Not at all! This is the most ridiculous situation I've ever experienced. WAITING ONE MONTH, get blamed for the problem, then after replacing every seal in the damn machine the problem persists.


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RE: Miele T9802 Service Call :(

Take a deep breath! At least it is still operational and you are not forced to go the the laundromat.

MRB


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RE: Miele T9802 Service Call :(

Larsi I have a question. I saw in your electrolux back to meile thread that you have had 5 meile washers and this thread says you've been using meile for 15 years.. How often are you replacing these washers :-) .


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RE: Miele T9802 Service Call :(

@sshrivastava, I know it's frustrating but take a deep breath. No one is dying ... I'm sure it will get resolved.

Is this service issue so bad you would not recommend anyone buy a Miele?

@Kappen, @Larsi is in a totally different league ... lol. He has a "bit" of an appliance addiction and he loves him a good Miele (the newer the better). ;)


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Miele is sending me a new dryer!

* UPDATE *

A very nice gentleman from Miele called me today. He said that due to the fact that there is one technician serving the entire Phoenix metro area, technician training coming up that requires technicians to be out of pocket, and the fact that we are over a month into this issue... MIELE IS GOING TO SEND ME A BRAND NEW T9802 DRYER! I almost fell off my chair.

Mind you, I didn't ask for a new dryer and even after he offered, I said "are you absolutely sure?" LOL! According to Marcel (the gentleman from Miele), it makes more sense for Miele to replace the unit than to continue trying to service the issue. I AM HAPPY AS A CLAM!

@ livebetter... you asked if I would recommend Miele. Absof***inglutely! :)


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RE: Miele T9802 Service Call :(

@'stava - Wow, that is good news for you and makes a strong statement about customer service, on the part of Miele. It's reassuring when a company stands behind their product.


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RE: Miele T9802 Service Call :(

@sshrivastava, Hoot Hoot!! Doing a happy dance for ya'.

That sure speaks to Miele service. There's been some negative comments of late re: their service so it's nice to see a good one.

Sadly, my problem continues. After Miele's last visit re: the dryer vent, I could smell clothes drying in my furnace room.

Long story but it appears when he was doing his thing, he must have caused the vent line to separate in the wall (clearly the HVAC guys who installed said line didn't screw it together or whatever it needed). Now it looks like I may be ripping open drywall to fix the issue.

My friend (a home builder) is coming over tomorrow night to take a look.

Really?? I'm trying to have a new outlook on life and not let this upset me (trying is the operative word). It is what it is at this point and it just needs to get fixed.

Glad things are looking up for you. Pls keep us updated on what happens with the new unit.


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RE: Miele T9802 Service Call :(

SStava...We know Marcel VERY WELL. This is too funny, what a small world. Marcel is AWESOME. We've known him for years! Great guy!!!

@ Kappen....When ever Miele debuts a new model or colour (like Stainless on our old W1986), we switch around. As Livebetter said...I am a total appliance addict!!! ;)


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RE: Miele T9802 Service Call :(

"....one technician serving the entire Phoenix metro area..."

umm...Phoenix is something like the fifth larges city in the country and they've got one tech? Interesting.


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RE: Miele T9802 Service Call :(

"....one technician serving the entire Phoenix metro area..."

Really? I'm sure we have more than that in the Toronto area as I've had 3 different techs here.


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RE: Miele T9802 Service Call :(

Yes, Miele has only one technician for the entire Phoenix metro area. Estimated population is in the 4-5 million range. His name is Adam Samford. I'm sure he spends most of his time up in Scottsdale. :)


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RE: Miele T9802 Service Call :(

I hope I'm not jinxing myself by posting this, but the new dryer is in and seems to be working just fine! I am also doing the unthinkable... I'm going to follow the technician's advice and use no more than 2 TBSP of detergent per full load. I think the "residue in the dryer" argument is pretty much crap, since the problem still persisted after changing out the "residue" affected components, but I'm going to give it a shot just to rule out the 1% possibility that the problem actually was related to residue.

Miele came through!


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RE: Miele T9802 Service Call :(

Do you honestly believe that your Miele washer is that poor of a rinser that leftover detergent would cause a dryer failure? Sure sounds like Miele wants you to think so. Don't drink that Kool-Aid for Heaven's sake!
MRB


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RE: Miele T9802 Service Call :(

"I am also doing the unthinkable... I'm going to follow the technician's advice and use no more than 2 TBSP of detergent per full load. "

Well, it's worth a try. Your laundry won't come out as strongly perfumed, but that, too, will become the new normal. It's all relative, and what we're accustomed to.

When he posted on the CR forums, John Shipkowski always said:
2 Tablespoons of regular HE
1 Tbsp of 2x HE
1 tsp. of 3x HE
detergent was all a person needed. He seemed to have a lot of experience repairing and looking inside FL washers.
The only variables not discussed with his dosing recommendations were:
1.) the size/capacity of the drum and 2.) liquid or powder. It is possible I missed that in my research. His suggested amounts work for me with a 1/2 to 2/3 full drum.

Those amounts are pretty close to what I'm now using. I always look at a particular product's dosing, and pro-rate up or down, based on size of load and judging how dirty the clothes are.


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RE: Miele T9802 Service Call :(

"...2 TBSP of detergent per full load."

Well, your cleaning results will tell the tale pretty quickly I would think. No sense in using more than is needed. As I recall, you have soft water which would allow minimal dosing but I think I recall you've always been pretty conscientious about dosing from the beginning.

In any event, I do NOT buy the "residue in the dryer" argument at all. I think there's something else going on there. I have little doubt, you'll be fine.

Except for that (IMHO) bogus diagnosis and the one-tech-in-the-univerese circumstance, I'd say Miele really stepped up.


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RE: Miele T9802 Service Call :(

I conveyed my displeasures to Marcel @ Miele who agreed with me that dust inside the bottom interior of the dryer frame is lint and dust, not detergent residue. He said residue can be observed on the fan impeller as well as on the seals and lint filter, if it is present. He said it has a certain look that is unmistakable, and agreed that probably wasn't the problem in my case.

This reminds me of a post by another member in a different thread showing possible fabric softener or detergent residue inside a dryer. Here is the photo:

Nothing in my dryer looked anything like this. All of my seals and parts were clean as far as I could tell when the parts were removed from my machine. I'm glad they replaced the dryer, the new one appears to be much less noisy and the lint filter has a tighter fit.


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RE: Miele T9802 Service Call :(

Hmmm. You argued in the thread in which I posted the pic(s) that it isn't softener residue and that I don't know softener residue from household dust, and now you use the pic to support how softener residue in a dryer may appear. So which way is it?


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RE: Miele T9802 Service Call :(

Wow. so glad I stuck with a TL.
Throw in clothes, pour in Liquid Tide HE and have no worries my machine is going to self destruct because of a TBSP of detergent. Had to say it just to get a rise.

Hopefully the old dryer just had a leak in the lint filter and the new one will have no such problem.
The "detergent dust" thing is a load of crap, you just got a lemon from the factory and thanks to your Moxy and proper complaining you got a New Dryer from it.
That was a good decision on Miele's part.


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RE: Miele T9802 Service Call :(

@ dadoes

Sorry if I wasn't clear. The photo was taken from a thread claiming it shows residue in the dryer. Whether or not this is an actual photo of residue is debatable, however my point was that Miele claimed I had residue in my dryer and it looked nothing like what we see in this photo. That was my point. IF there were residue, wouldn't it be obviously visible like in this photo? My stuff was CLEAN with a little bit of dust/lint sitting at the bottom of the dryer - where you would expect such things to be.

@ Nunyabiz1

I also throw in clothes, pour in liquid Tide HE and have no worries that my machine is going to self destruct because of a TBSP of detergent. I guess you and most owners of front loaders (myself included) have something in common after all! :)


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RE: Miele T9802 Service Call :(

Hi all,

I just read this thread, I have a T1405 dryer that is experiencing the same reversing noise. This occurs most of the time over the past few months. I really wish you had discovered the root cause because I probably have the same issue.


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RE: Miele T9802 Service Call :(

JLLG73,

Whatever repair steps were taken did not address the issue. Miele ultimately felt that it was a smarter use of their time to just replace the unit. However, he did spend a lot of time shaving some felt material in the dryer thinking that was the cause. He replaced the fan assembly. Noise was still there.

I suspect it has something to do with the rollers, but I can't be sure. The best thing you can do is remove the cover to the dryer, run it until you hear the sound, then follow the sound to its source. Hopefully that will get you in the ballpark.


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RE: Miele T9802 Service Call :(

I can sympathize with the situation you had with Miele. I also am having trouble with Miele Service. I have a ten year old W1903 washer that stopped functioning properly back at the end of Nov. 2012. Three service calls with numerous parts replaced (one worth over $5oo) with the end result that my washer won't start at all now! Every time I call to ask when they will send the technician to complete the service seems to bring the standard response that they are waiting for the parts to arrive from Germany. I have noticed this pattern in other posts from other parts of the world. In total I have paid $800 in parts labour. Could have bought a decent North American machine for that! Right now I'm wondering if they are ever going to fix it.


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