Return to the Laundry Room Forum | Post a Follow-Up

 o
Eeew! detergent residue --- from years of old top-load washer

Posted by Cavimum (My Page) on
Tue, Sep 13, 11 at 10:43

With the coming cooler weather, transition and winter clothes are slowly being brought down to our closet. Because I had so many problems with suds in my Miele W4842 FL's rinse cycles for so long, the theory of old detergent residue was given. This theory has to be correct.

As 'clean' garments are being brought down and run through a rinse/drain cycle, NO DETERGENT, the amount of sudsing is shocking. It's going to take many cycles to get this stuff out, yet the garments never felt stiff & scratchy when washed & dried with the old TL & dryer. It's appalling and amazing at the same time.

And in case anyone is wondering, Clean Machine and Sanitize cycles are run prior to, and even between, these "flushing out" events to ensure the foam is not from detergent reside in the tub prior to rinsing.


Follow-Up Postings:

 o
RE: Eeew! detergent residue --- from years of old top-load washer

We have had just the opposite result. When we switched from an old TL to a FL, our washcloths came out of the dryer looking fine, but if you put one in a wash basin with hot water it clouded up and you could make suds. I have to do an extra rinse cycle and then when the machine stops, open the door and close it to reset the machine and set it for another rinse and spin. Cloths still will make some cloudyness. I don't think this is residue from the years when we had a top loader. It is caused by the design to meet government water and hot water restrictions.


 o
RE: Eeew! detergent residue --- from years of old top-load washer

@nerdyshopper, if that were true, no one with a front loader would be happy.

I've been front load washing for more than 10 years. NO issues here.

I had a very basic Frigidaire for 10 years (NO heater) and this year purchased a beautiful Miele W4842/T9822 pair.

While it is obvious to me that the Miele is washing better and definitely rinsing better (I used to have residual suds on the glass issue some times with my Frigidaire but never with my Miele), the Frididiare did a fine job.

Many, many people are happy with their front load machines. Perhaps there is something wrong with your machine or the way you use it?


 o
RE: Eeew! detergent residue --- from years of old top-load washer

@cavimum, vinegar or citric acid will help remove any residue better.


 o
RE: Eeew! detergent residue --- from years of old top-load washer

@ nerdyshopper

I think your experience is causing you to jump to the wrong political conclusion. If what you say is true, I should have the some problems with my Miele and should have had the same issues with my previous Asko. But nope. I don't know what machine you have, but might I suggest that what you are experiencing has more to do with your particular machine's design, local water chemistry, and the amount of detergent that you are using. I think your disdain for government regulations may be clouding your judgment here.

I have had my Miele W4842 for 18 months. I wash all of my towels, wash cloths and kitchen towels in it. I just went to soak one in a sink. Sloshed it around. Water is clear as a bell and not a single bubble in sight. I have a whole house water softener and use about 75% of what is recommended on the detergent box or bottle. My machine has two standard rinses with a spin after the main wash and between each rinse. All of my laundry - all of it without exception - comes out well rinsed, fluffy and soft.

There are plenty of us here who don't have any of the issues you describe, and an entire continent (Europe) that also has no such issues despite even stricter water and energy efficiency guidelines.


 o
RE: Eeew! detergent residue --- from years of old top-load washer

We don't currently have a water softener. It stands to reason that soft water will provide a superior rinse than hard. But my problems probably stem from the Samsung design. I think they go to market with half-baked designs because they have no history of how to do it and have to make consumer products to survive. Couldn't afford Miele. We are on a fixed income and had to stretch to get the Samsung.
Our previous Whirlpool top loader was top of the line and cost me less than $600. My son still uses it after almost 20 years. That's why I resent the regulations. The whole washer situation was fine until they came along.


 o
RE: Eeew! detergent residue --- from years of old top-load washer

@ nerdyshopper

Actually, due to its electrical charge soft water is not as effective at rinsing soap and detergent as hard water. Soft water is more attracted to your skin and other items than it is to soap and detergent. This is why washing your hands or taking a shower in softened water gives you that "slick" feeling.

Besides build quality, the other problem I have with companies like LG, Samsung, Maytag, Whirlpool, etc. is that they focus too much on out-blinging their competition rather than providing best-of-class washing and rinsing performance. In Europe, washers are rated on a letter grade scale for their washing and rinsing ability. A+, A, A-, B+, B, etc. And here in the US? No such rating. So there is literally no objective standard in terms of wash and rinse performance that you can refer to when shopping for a machine here in America. Not even Consumer Reports tests rinsing - they are more concerned with the cycle time.


 o
RE: Eeew! detergent residue --- from years of old top-load washer

Bumping this up because . . . you won't believe this, so I took pictures!!!

Today I ran across and washed an old beloved Izod cotton pique knit sport shirt with a few new items. I kept seeing suds in the final rinses. Two rounds of Wrinkle-Free and two rounds of Rinse/Spin later, I figured the ancient shirt is probably the culprit. The shirt is roughly 20 y/o(twenty) years old and most likely a victim of the dreaded . . . detergent residue! from a lifetime of TL washer.

Enough already! so... I ran a Clean Machine cycle in my W4842 with an empty drum, no detergent or anything, and there was minimal suds, what you usually see for this cycle.

Next, I ran Clean Machine, a second time, but included only the shirt. Below are some pics of the 2inches of foam. These are from the first run. There was still foam in the drum at completion of the cycle. I ran Clean Machine a second time and included 2Tb.LemiShine, and ~OMGosh~ same results. This is unreal. The shirt is going to get tossed.

(and I am very proud of myself for figuring out how to post pics) ;-)

Photobucket

Photobucket

Photobucket


 o
RE: Eeew! detergent residue --- from years of old top-load washer

Could you just soak the shirt in vinegar water to get the soap out of it? Better than throwing it away. What detergent did you use when you had a top/loader?


 o
RE: Eeew! detergent residue --- from years of old top-load washer

@cavimum, whoa! crazy ...


 o
RE: Eeew! detergent residue --- from years of old top-load washer

@livebetter - isn't it!?! You can't make this stuff up.
I think the next time I have to fill out a form that asks one's hobbies, I'll add "laundry." Gah.....

@sparky823 - That shirt will have been washed in All F&C, Charlies Soap, and maybe Cheer, during the old TL days. I had an XL capacity Whirlpool so there was plenty of water in there, and I followed detergent manuf. suggestions for Large loads. Sometimes I would cut that dose in half and use Calgon water softener.


 o
RE: Eeew! detergent residue --- from years of old top-load washer

Is this a problem, really? I mean the amount of detergent didn't seem to bother anyone back when it occured with all your laundry, why get bent out of shape now? Given time, the residue will fade away. Why freak out over it when it didn't bother you before?

MRB


 o
RE: Eeew! detergent residue --- from years of old top-load washer

@MRB - Yes, I think it's a problem. With all the water used in a TL machine, the ration of water to suds never showed any sudsing. It did not bother me because it was not apparent.

From what I've read, lots of suds in a FL washer are not good for the parts of the machine that we can't see, which is one reason we use HE (low-sudsing) detergents in FL washers.


 o
RE: Eeew! detergent residue --- from years of old top-load washer

Cavimum...First Congrats on posting pics. The first time I finally figured out how to do that, it was like getting my PhD!! Good Work!

CRAZY suds. I had this similar problem when I was using my beloved Clorox Green Works detergent. Even tiny amounts would suds & suds and not rinse!! I've actually thrown away towels, because I could not get the residual detergent out. There comes a point when running cycle after cycle, and Clean Machine cycle after Clean machne Cycle...that's it's just easier and more economical to throw the damn thing away!!!!


 o
RE: Eeew! detergent residue --- from years of old top-load washer

Again... please do not throw away perfectly good detergent simply because it does not meet your needs. Please donate it to a local animal shelter or give it to your neighbor. We are sitting here talking about how we want to use green products, etc., yet don't think twice about pouring a container of detergent down the drain or tossing the entire thing in the trash.

Please try to give it away. It may not work for you, but it will certainly be appreciated by someone else.


 o
RE: Eeew! detergent residue --- from years of old top-load washer

@'stava - I think he meant the shirt. LOL


 o
RE: Eeew! detergent residue --- from years of old top-load washer

OP, I think I would run a vinegar-only wash with HOT water, then wash laundry in vinegar only (assuming it is not dirty, stained, or odorous), to get the suds out of the washer AND the laundry.

I used top-loading washers for years, have had HE toploader for several years, and I have NEVER ever seen anything like that (I do commonly use vinegar in the final rinse). I wonder if the water softener caused the increase in suds?


 o
RE: Eeew! detergent residue --- from years of old top-load washer

Keep the shirt. Yes, there's residual soap in there but you seem be be over-reacting to the issue. The shirt hasn't bothered you for, apparently, twenty years. What's bothering you is the new knowledge that discovery of residual soap has given you. Except for the new knowledge, nothing has changed in your laundry-life.

I would suggest running your laundry loads with no detergent added for a few cycles with extended dwell-time and extra-rinses. The residual will gradually flush out entirely. You'll be able to judge progress by the diminishing suds.

Learn you water hardness, adjust your detergent dosage and carry on.


 o
RE: Eeew! detergent residue --- from years of old top-load washer

@mara 2008 - I only used the Calgon WS in the old TL, but that shirt has not been worn nor washed since last summer.
I wondered if that was a factor in detergent retention in the fibers, in spite of my cutting the detergent dose to *half* whenever I used Calgon WS. The Calgon and the TL are history, however. I stopped using Calgon when I got the FL washer, because Calgon says their product has not been tested for FL washers. I won't take any chances with it having a random chemical property that might damage my Miele. I may soak the shirt in vinegar and see what happens. Or I may toss it. Summer is over, so I have time to experiment.

The thing of it is, our old TL Whirlpool was Xtra Large capacity and I never overdosed the detergent. I always went for the larger recommended dose on full loads, but that was it. (and I never used Fabric Softener-even Downy-Free gives me a rash) I must have bad suds karma...

~On a similar note ~ a few months ago I ran across a stack of sports shirts our son had outgrown years ago, but left in his dresser drawer when he grew up and moved out. He always did his own laundry and never used the Calgon.
I ran the shirts through a rinse/spin cycle - no detergent - and the sudsing was amazing!!!

I repeated the rinse/spin cycle once or twice, then dried them and ran Clean Machine cycle. Epilogue:
1) hopefully there is no detergent dust residue in the dryer from that experience, in case I have a Miele service issue with it (channeling @'stava...)
2) since he outgrew the shirts anyway, he said I could give them to GoodWill, so they are now history.


 o
RE: Eeew! detergent residue --- from years of old top-load washer

@cavimum, it is a fact that top loaders do not rinse as well as front loaders (I read that on Consumer Reports I think).

Top loaders only do one rinse while front loaders do 2, 3 or 4. Plus front loaders do high speed interim spins.


 o
RE: Eeew! detergent residue --- from years of old top-load washer

livebetter, I think that surely only applies to non-HE toploaders. My HE toploader washer (Maytag Bravos) does several rinses.


 o
RE: Eeew! detergent residue --- from years of old top-load washer

Golly wiz -- I feel soooooo bad that my top-loader cleans and rinses so well that I haven't the urge to replace it with a front-loader. Must be something really wrong with me and my machine.


 o
RE: Eeew! detergent residue --- from years of old top-load washer

@ patann
... Must be something really wrong with me...
I would tend to agree.


 o
RE: Eeew! detergent residue --- from years of old top-load washer

@mara_2008, according to Consumer Reports (whatever you think of them), they say HE top loaders are better than traditional top loaders but not better than front loaders.

"The best front-loaders clean better and more efficiently than the best high-efficiency top-loaders, without necessarily costing more. Even faster spin speeds than high-efficiency top-loaders typically mean better moisture extraction in the spin cycle, reducing drying time and energy consumption."

@patann, whatever ... I don't understand why individuals feel the need to make snide comments that add nothing to the conversation. You come across as a jerk. So you have a top loader you think is awesome - good for you and your laundry. Fact is, I know the reality.

"Regular top-loaders - These perform least impressively as a group and use the most energy overall. They hold only about 12 to 16 pounds of laundry and use the most water. Most are relatively noisy, and their loads can become unbalanced."


 o
RE: Eeew! detergent residue --- from years of old top-load washer

For the sake of clarity, my old TL was a conventional one, not an HE.


 o
RE: Eeew! detergent residue --- from years of old top-load washer

We bought a laundry spinner a couple of years ago to use with our top loading machine. We pretty much got the same result. When we spun our clothes through the spinner after a crystal clear rinse in our washer, we saw a LOT of suds coming out of the spinner when spinning the clothes. After quite a few washings/spinings we no longer saw so many suds. So I think that FL machines spin faster then TL machines which also helps reduce detergent residue.


 o
RE: Eeew! detergent residue --- from years of old top-load washer

re: livebetter

it is a fact that top loaders do not rinse as well as front loaders. Top loaders only do one rinse while front loaders do 2, 3 or 4. Plus front loaders do high speed interim spins.

livebetter, in my response to this comment above, I was drawing a distinction between traditional toploaders and HE toploaders. I have owned both. You did not draw that distinction.

HE toploaders DO have several rinses, plus high speed interim spins.

I take Consumer Reports reports with a grain of salt. Some times they are accurate, sometimes not. This has been proven about many products. If you don't believe me, read their forums, particularly their washing machine forum.

I have several friends who have owned frontloaders and now own HE toploaders, which they say clean, rinse, and spin better. I cannot explain that, but I do not doubt their word.


 o
RE: Eeew! detergent residue --- from years of old top-load washer

Wasting your breath Mara, the FL Apologist on this site are legion.
There is no difference in a HE TL Vs a FL in cleaning quality. If anything the HE TL might be a bit better on average.

There is a small difference in the amount of electricity and water used and that's it but that small difference would never make up for the extra expense of the FL for the entire life of the machine.

I just looked at our new HE TL manual online to check and we can add 2 extra Rinses if we choose and also add extra water if needed. It also does high speed interim spins, there is basically no difference, uses much less water, has high spin rates to get the clothes almost dry out of the washer.

It is a FL in every way but the inherent flaws of Bearing failure and seal leaks and mold issues, plus easier to load an unload.


 o
RE: Eeew! detergent residue --- from years of old top-load washer

@Nunyabiz1, wow ... and you're amazed people here find you unpleasant ... shocking I know.

Did you revive this week old post so you could post your negative drivel again? News flash, we read it the other 25 times you said it and it's the same c*** again. Get a new tune man .... you haven't added anything new since you popped up on this forum.

I'm starting to think you're a bored old man who gets his jolly from stirring the pot here. Can't really think of another reason someone would be like you.

You need to buy a mirror because clearly you need a good long look at yourself. No one here is bashing your HE TL but you continue to bash the FL (and the FL owners). What are you jealous or something?? LOL ...

"There is no difference in a HE TL Vs a FL in cleaning quality"

There you go with your engineering degree again. Can you produce the tests to prove that?

If you think HE TL are the same as FL you know absolutely nothing about how the machines actually clean the laundry (not surprising to me at all).

@mara_2008, I was referring to traditional top loaders in that statement not HE machines (TL or FL).


 o
RE: Eeew! detergent residue --- from years of old top-load washer

Nunyabiz1: "There is no difference in a HE TL Vs a FL in cleaning quality. If anything the HE TL might be a bit better on average.
"There is a small difference in the amount of electricity and water used and that's it but that small difference would never make up for the extra expense of the FL for the entire life of the machine."

May I suggest that you take a field trip to your local commercial laundry? If you are fortunate (or unfortunate) enough to live in a city with a Major League Baseball team, could you visit the laundry that washes the team's uniforms? Baseball players tend to slide around in the grass and in the dirt basepaths a lot. If your city does not have a MLB team, does it have an NFL team? The linemen get down in the mud and grass a lot.

If you do engage in a field trip as suggested, please report back how many top-loading machines you saw in use and how many front-loading machines you saw in use. The businesses you will have visited will be commercial entities with TCO (total cost of ownership) going straight to the bottom line. Would you agree that their choices are relevant?


 o
RE: Eeew! detergent residue --- from years of old top-load washer

Soon as I buy a baseball team or commercial laundry I will let ya know, but those comparisons for a household laundry requirements are totally meaningless.
They are used commercially because PENNYS count when you are talking THOUSANDS of loads a month as opposed to about 20.


 o
RE: Eeew! detergent residue --- from years of old top-load washer

@ livebetter

Wasting your breath, livebetter, the TL Apologists on this site are legion. :)


 o
RE: Eeew! detergent residue --- from years of old top-load washer

" . . . never make up for the extra expense of the FL for the entire life of the machine."
"They [front loading washing machines] are used commercially because PENNYS count when you are talking THOUSANDS of loads a month as opposed to about 20."

Apparently (correct me if I am in error) you agree that that the commercial operators of front loading washing machines gain a few pennies on every load compared to the costs of doing the same load in a top-loading washing machine. Would you agree, also, that if the commercial operators are diligent in their pre-purchase homework, they would purchase washing machines that have [initial hardware purchase price plus hardware maintenance costs over the life of the machine] that would not negate the differential advantage that they gain from the lower operating price per load? If there are "inherent design flaws" in front loading washing machines' bearing geometry, for instance, that would involve high maintenance costs, wouldn't any savings in electricity and detergent go down the drain, as it were?

Here is a link that might be useful: Ralph Waldo Emerson


 o
RE: Eeew! detergent residue --- from years of old top-load washer

A "Commercial" Front loader is not the same animal as ANY residential machine.
They cost many thousands of dollars are designed to last 10-20 years are made of 100% stainless and no doubt MUST have far superior bearing design, there is no way they could have just one bearing in the back like standard front loaders do.

The mid size one is 8.0cu.ft capacity and the washer weighs 1600 pounds, you would have to have a fork lift to move it and a solid cement floor to put it on.

You are again trying to compare Apples to Sand paper.


 o
RE: Eeew! detergent residue --- from years of old top-load washer

@ Nunyabiz1

You sure make a lot of assumptions...


 o
RE: Eeew! detergent residue --- from years of old top-load washer

@sshrivastava, among other things ... :)


 o Post a Follow-Up

Please Note: Only registered members are able to post messages to this forum.

    If you are a member, please log in.

    If you aren't yet a member, join now!


Return to the Laundry Room Forum

Information about Posting

  • You must be logged in to post a message. Once you are logged in, a posting window will appear at the bottom of the messages. If you are not a member, please register for an account.
  • Posting is a two-step process. Once you have composed your message, you will be taken to the preview page. You will then have a chance to review your post, make changes and upload photos.
  • After posting your message, you may need to refresh the forum page in order to see it.
  • Before posting copyrighted material, please read about Copyright and Fair Use.
  • We have a strict no-advertising policy!
  • If you would like to practice posting or uploading photos, please visit our Test forum.
  • If you need assistance, please Contact Us and we will be happy to help.


Learn more about in-text links on this page here