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Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

Posted by Digitalcandy (My Page) on
Wed, Jul 13, 05 at 17:14

I bought my HE4T in September of 2004. Approximately one month ago, it started throwing F/L, F/11, or F/DL error codes. Come to find out from the Sears tech, they are replacing a lot of Electrical Control Boards in the HE3T, and HE4T washers. He said there is nothing mechanically wrong with the machine, but the ECB heats up too much and throws the codes. The frustrating thing is that the part is on backorder, so the tech could do nothing when he was at my home. If I try to run the washer ten times, I may be able to do two loads. Most of the time the washer will get 10-15 minutes into its cycle, throw the code, and stay that way until I unplug it. I then have to restart the cycle hoping it will make it all the way through.

Anyone else with a similar problem?

For those that care, the Electrical Control Board's part number for the HE4T is 8182663.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

F11 is a serial communication error. Could be as simple as a loose or faulty wire harness, bad drive component or more complex like a failed MCU, CCU or even the motor. I wouldn't rule out the door lock assembly either. There ain't a whole lot left in these machines!

I have the HE3t (four years) and still no problems with these components. I live in a cooler climate so I'm wondering if you live in a warmer area where the ambient temp around the washer is above say 80*F? I noticed the MCU (Motor Control) has large heat sinks and runs pretty toasty along with the motor. Heat is the worst enemy of electronics. Good luck with your repair.


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Help!!! Kenmore HE4t F11 Code

About an hour ago, our HE4t started beeping in the middle of a wash load. F11 code was showing. It is ONLY 9 months old. This has never happened before.

We tried unplugging it, and restarting. It finished . One load went through after that, but the next load after that one beeped again with F11. It keeps beeping every time we restart, and is beeping as I type!

PLEASE tell me, is this always a service call situation?

Should I insist on a new machine? (I am inclined to.) For what we paid, I am absolutely furious this is happening. We have the one year try it for free plan. I can't believe this is happening so early on.

Please give me all the information and opinions you possibly have. Thanks friends!


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

dear digitalcandy,

I am waiting to hear from Sears when they can come regarding my F11 codes. I am interested to know what state you are in, and how long did they tell you the backorder wait was in your area.

Would you mind giving your opinion as to whether we should ask for new machines? Or do you think it's no big deal if they swap out the boards. I am concerned mostly about a recurrence, and reliability. I don't want to go through this every nine months.

Did you get fixed yet? How did it go, did it last?

Thanks for any further info you have.


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/11 error codes

Dear hbw248,

Could you tell me what is involved in the repair of most of the items you list above? Is it just a matter of popping off the front top control panel, or do they really need to take apart the whole machine? I am trying to understand what to expect when the tech comes to work on my F11 codes. Is it a big todo, or relatively simple to fix wiring harnesses or control panels or door locks.

Thanks so much for any info you can share.


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

The HE(*)t machines are really easy to get to most of the electronics and harnesses. The technician should be able to access all the elctronics and harnesses from the top and bottom of the machine. The motor would require the rear panel of the machine be removed.

I have heard of several problems with the wiring harneses being a problem so I think I would start there first. Have the technician check all the plugs that interface between the CCU (Central Control Unit), MCU (Motor Control Unit) and the Interface boards. It may take a few visits to resolve the problem.

If the techs can't figure it out in a few visits I would recommend getting a new machine since you're under the warranty terms at this point. Good luck and let us know the outcome of your repair.


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F2 code he4t

Well, after less than two months we started getting F2 codes and the washer would stop the cycle. The pull the plug routine worked for one wash, but then again with the codes. Thought about letting the service people work on it, but since the unit was bought less than three months ago it seemed more prudent to swap it out for a new one.

So...the new one is in the back of the car, ready to go into the house...and I'm not sure I want it there. Now I'm looking at the LG 2432H. I don't need the stackability, and I like the idea of having the controls away from the kids.

Any advice?


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

Dear hbw248,

Thanks so much for your advice. I felt much better knowing before he came here he didn't have to take everything apart.

I was quoted a ten day wait for the initial service call, then a two week wait for the parts and return visit. Let's just say I made it clear to them that was unacceptable, and I was able to get the repair done - hang on to your hats - in two visits, over just three days. Of course, the part was not on the truck. Arranged on Wednesday, diagnosed on Thursday, fixed on Saturday.

The very nice tech replaced the big board at the rear of the machine. I've only done one wash so far since, so I hope that takes care of it; so far so good.

Yes, the repair was very simple as you said it would be. The worst part was dealing with Sears repair dispatch central. They have some serious issues they need to fix. A consistent 10 day wait for service indicates a serious need for a larger repair crew. The tech himself was very nice, and not the issue.

Who in their right mind accepts a 24 day wait for repair on a premium machine? In August, at that!

Thanks again!


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

OK, so my He3T just decided to F11 on me. I tried unplugging and replugging everything I could with all three, make that four (front bottom, top, back and bottom) panels off and MCU unattached & disconnected, but no luck. Anyone out there able to tell me how to test the motor, CCU and MCU (or any one of them)to try to determine which puppy needs replacement? I am real scared of what the repair bill would be calling in anyone outside, so would like (and NEED) to avoid this if at all possible- Also I ran the diagnostics, F11 anytime it was a function that involved driving the drum (of course).

If it helps, machine went schizoid after wife left it on pause for a few hours (laundry room flood from other unrelated to this problem).


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

From what I understand from my recent F11 adventures (see above) it's usually the main circuit board at the back of the machine (the one that clips onto the rear panel when the top of the machine is off). And that once it F11's you, it just needs to go. My machine played games with me - it did it a few times, then was fine for a week, but then started again and wouldn't stop.

From what the tech said, the part is a few hundred dollars at least. Also, it needs special handling to guard against static shock, which can apparently blow it. It comes wrapped in special pink bubble wrap with a static precaution warning on it.

One last thing. I recently read somewhere (here?) that the boards were recalled. I don't know if that's true or not, I haven't had time to call and ask, but it's worth looking into if you're out of warranty.

Good Luck.


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

Oh yeah... So I did find the section in the breif manual inside the washer on how to test the motor, and she's fine (provided I can trust what they wrote, as you will understand as I continue...). The thing I don't get is that all the instructions cite the Motor Control Unit (MCU) and the Central Control Unit (CCU) but make absolutely NO reference to the idiot Electonic Control Assembly, which is the part you are referring to and the same part that LuvMyLabs observed being replaced - it is directly in line and between the CCU and the MCU. Let's hear it for Sears/Kenmore, making certain other repair folk and consumers alike don't get complete information! You mean there is a transmission between the engine and the tires? Oh, I must of forgot to mention that.

Anyway, and I guess to further the previous statement's cynacism, I find RepairClinic.com has each of these items for about $155 +/- (i.e., not $300+ as he told you), and with just a little luck they just might let me return an item if it proves not to be the problem - I might order all and start by replacing the ECA, then seeing if we have lift-off.

Thanks for the input, I'll report back on what works.


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ECA problem, clarification-

Whoops. Just to clarify, I meant to directly reflect and thank you for indicating the ECA LuvMyLabs, and also cross reference the first post by Digitalcandy indicating the same.

And as long as I am here again, I would like to take this opportunity once again to thank Sears for not including this board in any of the reference material provided, as if it did not exist. Why would that be?


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eca

...and $121.56 at appliancepartspros.com
So far everyone is backordered, so it would appear this part is a real problem. Wonder if Sears has a program to freely replace these defective units? Ha! They don't even acknowledge they exist, so why would I ask such a thing???


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

I started a thread a while ago about my Whirlpool Duet DL/F problem - purchased Sept 04 died July 05. After visits by 3 different Whirlpool listed repair people the machine was still broken and eventually replaced.

However in the course of the "repairs" in which the control circuit board (as described by Luvmylabs above), door lock mechanism and other parts were fitted it transpired from a call to Whirlpool's service people that the wiring harness was faulty but this was not listed in the "manual" as one of the items to change. They said they'd had loads of people with this problem and the harness was the issue... It seems like it might have been a fault in the manufacture although this was not mentioned specifically

So before you change the circuit boards you might need to call the company's service folk and ask about the wiring harness. I believe it is just part that links the door lock mechanism to the boards but as I said ours was replaced before the harness was fitted.


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

Interesting and useful, but I am going to have to come up with a way of diagnosing the fault if the board does not handle it. I guess at worst a point to point continuity check will do it. It just seems strange to me that a fault would develop in the wire harness unless they either didn't crimp well or used metals prone to corrosion. The basic repair reference in the washer does make reference to this as a real possibility, even a probability, suggesting to disconnect and reconnect the terminals...


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

Appliance manufacturers have not yet learned the lessons the auto industry did over 15 years ago. that is, when dealing with millivolt signals in computers, the wiring has to be bulletproof. It wasn't until the auto manufacturers started using gold plated crimp connections and moisture sealed plugs that they got away from connection problems. The connections inside the new washers look like what GM and the others were producing in the 80's. And we all know how well those cars ran...


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

My, my, my.

Yep. Conspiracy theory.

As it happened to Lovemylabs, it also was with me, the electronic control assembly that is omitted from the chain of events in the service technician manual for the F11 codes. They cite the CCU and the MCU, but unless you follow everything physically in the washer, you wouldn't think to question it. Because of Lovemylab's post, this was he first thing I replaced, and she is up and running.

After removing it, I popped the ECA cover open and saw nothing notable, except the disappointing fact that mechanical relays are involved. So I popped their covers off - if anyone wants to fiddle with this, they are the two little white boxes on the board just right and down from center. Though the second one's contacts are bright and shiney, the first one's are full of carbon. At some point when I feel like I want to tinker, I will finish cleaning them and pop the original back in. I guess I won't feel too bad, as my replacment board only ran me about $125.00 and all the grief from my wife from the washer being down for the past six days, but for those out there that might be out of warranty and spend hundreds of $ on a "professional" repair, eeeeeeeeewwwwwwww. If it is the carbon build-up, then I would say this is bad engineering, not simply normal wear & tear, for this arrangement would have been thought to be a timed failure point by a good mechanical/electrical engineer from the start, in my humble opinion. Reminds me of one of the first computers,,, was it UNIVAC or ENIAC? That failed because a moth got caught inbetween relay points, and became the namesake of and the original computer "bug"...


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

I have a brand new HE3t washer and dryer. As my name indicates, I am living in Panama. I am within warranty, but there are no Sears repairmen here. I have an error code since setting up my machine. It is F 05. The manual says it is in a range of numbers that indicate an electrical problem. I tried to get technical advice when I was in the states, but noone seems to know what to do. I have performed all electrical tests on the outlet (polarity, ground, voltage, etc.) HELP!


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

Panamal -- The manual for my HE3t washer says F/05 is a water temperature sensor error (this manual is the tech sheet that was inside the lower section of the machine -- along the right wall).

I have not had this problem, so can't offer advice from personal experience, but here's what the tech sheet says:

"If during the water heating step in the wash cycle, the water temperature sensor (NTC) value is out of range, the F/05 error will be displayed.

"Potential Causes

* Check water temperature sensor. Refer to the water temperature sensor section. Check connections to the water temperature sensor.

* Check resistance of heating element, if present on this model (abnormal = infinity)."

Sorry that I can't be of more help; hopefully, someone else can provide more info.


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

Thank you twocats. (I have two cats 18# each 5 yrs. old--grey--love 'em so much brought them to Panama--big hassle, but big reward.) It is good that someone knows what F 05 means. The tech people at Sears apparently don't have access to technical information. Here's the rub: We only have cold water. At first I put a plug on the hot input--sensing that this could be a problem, I put a "Y" and hooked up both hoses. I always select "cold/cold". If I didn't select that, does the machine have a way of detecting or even heating up the water? It is frustrating to buy a high end appliance and have this problem from the get go. Thanks for your input. (Call when it is 20 below;-)


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

Panama,

When the cold wash is selected, the washer will add hot water as necessary to try and reach 77F. Since you have only cold water, maybe this is triggering the error. Perhaps the tap cold/cold water setting will work for you, as it fills only with cold water.

This works on my HE3t, so it should work on yours:
Select Tap Cold/Cold, Whitest Whites cycle, heavy soil. As soon as the water finishes filling, pause the machine and change the water temp to warm. You will know the fill is complete when the water stays off for more than 10 seconds. The heater will switch on in less than a minute. If you wait longer than 1 minute after the fill stops to change the temp, the heater will not come on.

With the heavy soil setting, the heater will stay on up to 16 minutes. If you want the heater to stay on longer and heat to a higher temp, turn on the stain treat option as soon as the fill finishes. This will extend the wash time, and the time the heater stays on.

Good luck!

Joe


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kenmore he3t f code

Our washer stops at the rinse cyle & shows a code of F. Just F, no numbers. Any suggestions?


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

I bought my HE3T in March of this year per recommendations on this site by other users. Well, 2 weeks ago, it started throwing F/DL codes and wouldn't lock the door to start. I had to wait a week for the repair appointment. DH decided it was the locking mechanism, so that is what the repairman replaced. One week, no problems. Now, I'm getting F/11 and F/14 codes at the rinse cycle. I have tried resetting it, but it isn't taking. I tried calling Sears and they couldn't get anyone out til next Wednesday (they only come to our area on Mondays and Wednesdays). We are going out of town for Thanksgiving, so the final date we could get was 2 weeks. Looks like we are either going to get someone out here Monday, or it is going back to Sears. DH is not interested in dragging repairs out. If it is a design flaw, it is going bye-bye.


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

macthetennishound -- What model do you have? Check again closely -- usually the HEx machines will first flash the "F" then display another code --- either numbers or letters like H or DL) -- to help decipher the problem.


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

OK, I'm joining the ranks as someone who is also experiencing F11 codes.

I won't even get into the hassle of Lowe's trying to find someone who will honor the extended warranty I purchased from them, but the one person willing to come out first asked us on the phone if both our washer and dryer are each on their owen circuit or if they are on the same one. If they are indeed on the same one, (which they are) that would void the warranty.

While the Duet washer & dryer literature both says it is recommended that they are each on their own circuits, it doesn't mention that not doing so would void the warranty.

Can anyone shed some light on this?

I emailed Whirlpool, just so I can maybe get something in print as evidence. The email form says I should get a reply in 3 days. I will post when I hear back for those interested, but I am curious to hear what my fellow forum members have experienced.

Thanks!


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Temporary fix for F/11 F/DL error codes

Add me to the list. HE4T 15 months old and throwing an F/11 code.

Yesterday I opened the top of the washer (only 3 screws at the rear of the top) and carefully removed the big white box that contains the suspect control board. Note, some of the wires are tricky to remove and you need to be careful and fight the urge to pull on the wires. As mentioned in an earlier post by brucemc, I noticed the two white relays on the board. I popped the tops off of them, and the outside one, the one farthest away from the other board components, was really shiny and clean. The other one, the one between the outside relay and the other board components, was heavily arced up. This is not good! Anyway, I took some very fine sand paper (800 grit) and carefully cleaned off the deposits on both pieces of the contact. That's it. I then put the covers back on both relays and put a little dab of hot melt glue front and back to keep the covers on since the plastic latches broke when I popped the covers off.

I also rubbed a little bit of silicone dielectic compound, from Radio Shack, on all of the contacts on the board edges, just to give them a better chance of making good contact.

I reassembled everything and washed clothes for several hours without a single problem.

Does this fix the problem for good? Absolutely not. The relay is undersized and it will undoubtedly fail again. Hopefully this will get me a couple of months of trouble free washing.

Next time it has problems, I will clean the bad relay and replace it with the other one which is in perfect shape. That should get me a good year until that one too fries up. Sooner or later I'll run out of relays and will need to find a source of components.

Good luck,

Chuck


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

"I also rubbed a little bit of silicone dielectic compound, from Radio Shack, on all of the contacts on the board edges, just to give them a better chance of making good contact."
This cleaning seems to be the "cure" for F11.

"The other one .. was heavily arced up."
Don't think the cleaning of the relay contact is the "cure" for F11, but it would reduce the acring. If it really goes BAD again, try to source an new one.


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Not so fast....

Our machine errored out this weekend with more F/11 errors. We were able to reset and continue, but my earlier optimism of having found the culprit / fix has been diminished a bit. I will dig deeper and report back soon.


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

Has this problem been fixed in the newer models? Is it safe to buy a new one?


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

Our HE4T has been a joy for 6 or 7 months - until tonight. F11 error popped and that was it. I unplugged the machine and got Fdl. Unplugged again and....it is totally dead. No lights, no indication of power, nothing. (Yes, I checked breakers, tried another outlet, etc.)

Friday night, so no laundry this weekend for sure.

Anyone else have this situation?

Really shaking my head - we threw our Maytag Neptune out after it failed for the umpteenth time - and it was the second machine after Maytag replaced the first one! I insisted that we buy the HE4T because of the great research I did.

The wife is NOT amused.


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

Well my friends, I found out how to fix mine and would like to pass the information on to others. Hopefully it helps you. First, UNPLUG THE WASHER. I started by removing the three security screws from the top back of the washer. (You can get a security screw kit with dozens of security bits from Harbor Freight for cheap.) After removing the top, I carefully (using a small flat blade screwdriver) pryed on the clips to free up the white box located on the top and back inside the machine. (All the wires go into this). I then carefully rotated the white box so that I could access the lid and carefully pryed off the lid using a screwdriver. I used a magic marker and marked all of the wire plugs and the box holes so I could put them back where I found them later. (No guessing). After removing all the wire plugs, there are three clips holding the Electronic Control Board to the inside of the white box. DO NOT PRY AGAINST THE CONTROL BOARD. The board should come right out and you can take it to your work bench. Now the easy part......I wrote down the relay numbers from all of the relays. There should be five of them. Two are white and three are black. The white ones have five pins attached to the board and the black ones have six pins attached to the board. All of my relays were made by OMRON. I googled the OMRON relay numbers and found a full spec sheet in .pdf form. I printed both spec forms which had all the information about the relays. (voltages, size, etc.) I took the board and the spec sheets to my local electronics store (NOT RADIO SHACK, THEY HAD NOTHING)...Im talking about a true electronics store that had resisters, transistors, capacitors and stuff. I showed the guy my sheet and the board and he looked it up and found a match for all of the relays, but was made by a different brand. All of mine were the same except the white relays had a 12 amp rating instead of the 10 amp rating. (Better for me.) I came home and carefully de-soldered the relays off and resoldered the new ones on. (careful, some of the relay pins are close together, just have patience.) Three of my relays were see through.....(cool) I could now watch them as they switched. I clipped the board back into the white box, attached all the wires and I have been running for three weeks without a single problem. If you do not like to solder, have someone help you...you will have save $$$$$$$. Best Regards, Kevin
kevintrisha@comcast.net


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

Our HE4t started getting the dreaded F11 a few weeks ago. By last week it was getting F11/FdL often enough that it wouldn't finish a cycle. I ordered replacements for the two white relays, and last night I popped them in. (First I just tried to replace the "middle" relay, the one closest to the other big components on the board, but it still got an FdL. So I replaced the other one and it seemed to be OK.) Ran it through a full self-test cycle and all seemed OK.

This morning I successfully did a load of whites. Huzzah!

Then I did another load and... F11/FdL. Arghghgh!

Now it's gotten so hosed that the door is locked and I can't get the wet load out of the machine.

Kevin, are you still here? Is your fix still working? Maybe I need to replace the rest of the relays to fix it?

If that doesn't work, the next step is to try replacing the whole control board, and/or the wiring harness. (But the wiring harness is over $100 so I won't do that lightly!!) For other folks' benefit: none of the parts sites mentioned so far recognize my HE4t's model # (110.45981400) but the live help at appliancepros.com found it.
Control board: $127.62 http://www.appliancepartspros.com/part_details.aspx?part_id=3881119
(but currently out of stock)
Wiring harness: $102.29 http://www.appliancepartspros.com/part_details.aspx?part_id=3764456

Grr mumble pieceacrap... :-(
Gary


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

Kevin,

If you still have the list of OMRON relay numbers and/or the address of the .pdf files, could you please post them and/or e-mail them to me? Given the p.i.t.a. this confounded machine is giving me, it looks like I may need to dig into the guts of it.

My DW, btw, posted the question about the "recommendation" that the machine be on its own circuit. I dunno, you ask me, there is a very different definition of the word "recommended" versus "required," but WP obviously isn't using the same American English dictionary the rest of us have. Thank you.

Christian


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

In what way can a wiring harness go bad? Presumably you could test it for continuity on the leads, maybe add a bit of deOxit for better conductivity.
$128 doesn't sound so terrible for a control board, but really appliance electronics should be designed to be hardier - maybe power is perfectly clean in Germany??
Doesn't the national electrical code specify a dedicated circuit for the washing machine? - DR


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

Christian, the two white relays are Omron G5LV-1VD. I haven't broken mine open to see if either of them showed arcing or carbon. I replaced them both with NTE R46-5D12-12 relays, rated 12A, but that didn't solve the problem.

The other three black relays are Omron G2RL-1AE.

I got my new control board yesterday and so far I've run through three loads without trouble. Crossing my fingers...

I'll probably replace the other three Omrons, and see if that fixes the problem if (/when) my new board craps out.

Gary


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

Interesting. Tonight I wanted to add a garment to my He4t, so I paused the washer. But it had already gone 15 minutes, and it will only unlock the door for the first 8 minutes. So I decided to forget it, not try to add the item, and hit Start again. (I swear I did not touch the door.) I waited, wondering why it did not start. Suddenly I got the F11 code! Scary. I hit pause again. This time the door unlocked (even though it was not supposed to). I opened and slammed it shut and hit Start, and it is running fine now. But I wonder what happened?


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

Andrea-weird about the F11 code. I'll be at the one year mark in a couple of weeks and wonder if I'll start experiencing what so many others report after 12 months of use.

By the way, you can open the door at any time during any cycle (after pushing pause once) provided the temp of the water is not more than 120F. I do it all the time. Another exception to opening the door at any time is with the delicate and handwash cycles which have the highest fills. You have to pause and change to a cycle that uses less water (any of the others) in order to release the door lock.

Maybe your door lock switch is starting to come loose.


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

My HE4T was just under a year old and started having intermittent F11's. The repair guy came out and ordered the control board which arrived a week later. Two guys came out and replaced the board since the dryer is stacked on top washer. After replacing the board we looked inside the old board and there was a large dead cockroach which would probably explain the intermittent F11. I think it's a design fault that it's not sealed better. The guy said Sears allows one bug to fry the board and that they would charge if it happened again but didn't write that on the receipt. The repair guys sell the extended warranty which he tried to sell me. Printed out a receipt that showed this repair would have cost over $600. I can get the "$350" control locally for less than $150 so it seems they are trying to scare you into buying the warranty.


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

Does anyone know if there is a download source for the HE4t service manual (Let's put copyright questions aside for a moment...)

F11 just started. Will chase after all the usual suspects, and will post the fix to add to this great forum.

A


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

Never mind. Found it...

A


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

I think my F11 code was just a fluke. Did not happen again. Although my washer DID just hit the one year mark!

Eliz,
Funny about opening the door. The manual says you can only do it for the first 8 minutes, but you CAN do it on most cycles as you said. It's just that the add-a-garment LIGHT does not stay on! Funny!


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

THE problem is the solder on the contacts on the board. The board is a very cheap design. In order to fix it you need to add a little solder (preferalbly solder with some silver from radio shack) to each contact on the board where the harness connects. You have to disconnect all the wires from the white box (MCU), remove the MCU, open the MCU and remove the board. Heat up the contact point for each harness connection on the TOP AND BOTTOM OF BOARD and add a thin layer of solder. While your underneath the board RESOLDER THE RELAY SOLDER POINTS FOR ALL THE RELAYS. The soft solder is suspect at these points.

The solution explains why adding a new board may work, adding a new harness may work, why the error codes are sporadic, why the F11 may occur during heavy or unbalanced loads, the white relay by the larger components (the DoorLock Relay)may start to show carbon scoring, why your door lock may buzz when engaging, why just taking the MCU out and putting it back in may work (or may cause more trouble), etc. etc. All because of poor contact between the harness and the board.


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

thenotoriousflavio, out of all of the postings I have read on this problem I believe you have hit the nail on the head!

Here's my story. Our 2005 He4t washer begin the F11 & FDL errors after about six months of use. I began by resetting the error and/or unplugging the washer, but the errors progressively got so bad the washer would not complete a cycle.

I scheduled a service appointment with Sears (thank goodness I purchased the maintenance agreement). I actually left the unit flashing "F11" so the tech could see the error. When he arrived, he first checked the pump filter, then cleaned the serial communication (blue wires) connectors from the MCU to the CCU. True to form, the washer immediately gave him the dreaded F11 and Fdl codes. From the horror stories I have read posted by others, I was relieved when he said, "I'm going to order you a control board."

After reading thenotoriousflavio's post, (and figured I couldn't make things any worse) I decided to try something with the control board. I removed the board from the plastic case and lightly polished all of the board contacts (both sides) with steel wool.

Result......I've run three complete loads with no error codes! Bad thing is I'm not sure if it was the polishing, or just removing/reseating all of the connectors (probably never know).

I'm not sure just how long this will last, but hopefully the washer will remain operational until the new board arrives.

Hope this helps.

Larry


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

Resoldering the contacts (see my 02/24/07 post) is easier than it sounds and well worth the effort. A cheap soldering iron and some silver bearing solder should do the trick all for less than $20.

Polishing the contacts may work, but it may be a short term fix because the same soft solder with the same pitting and marring still can cause problems because the harness contacts may settle back into their old position with time and vibration causing the same problems to reoccur. Do it once, do it right.


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

I just had a new board put in my Duet. It works fine now. Are these new boards/ connections the same ole faulty boards or have the improved them?


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

I have the same F11 error code. Notoriousflavio and Larry, are your washers still running with no problems ???

Thanks

Pedro


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

I want to thank EVERYONE who posted their error messages, fixes that did work, fixes that didn't work and INSTRUCTIONS! My 2 yr old HE4T gave me the F DL message, intermittantly for 8 mos when I finally ordered the new control unit ( i did get the lifetime warranty thanks so MUCH!). Was working when it arrived so I hung on to it without opening it... Then Lo and Behold the F11 code came up! As a broke (but blessed) single mom (but fiercely independant), I refused to pay a service guy to do this when so much info was available here. I DID IT!

My dad still can't believe it.

Had wet laundry locked in the machine when I unplugged it and started the project, 15-20 minutes later it was purring like a kitten.

This place ROCKS!
Sarah


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

OK, I still have a question. I'm certainly willing to re-solder the board, but I'm uncertain which one to do. from what I've read, it's the CCU that is messed up, which I believe is located on the top in the rear. thenotoriousflavio states (& thanks for the info...) it's the MCU, located on the front bottom left, I believe. Any clarification available?

My units are stacked, of course, but I also built a laundry room (or cubby, really) that requires wall removal to remove the units. Not too smart, eh???


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RE: part info

first many thanks for this thread, as it will save me years of research on this problem. I did the fix with the relays but i seemed to have hosed the board somehow in the process. so i need a new unit and found it in stock here

http://www.appliancepartspros.com/part_details.aspx?part_id=3881133

my machine info p/n ghw9460pw0 s/n csr380317

the people at appliance pros did a search with the info i had vs the part numbers and came out with this part for the fix.

they said it should look exactly like this part http://www.appliancepartspros.com/part_details.aspx?part_id=3881119 just that it fits my machine.

hope those links help out the next person looking for it.


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

Thanks sonnysideup, Kevin, thenotoriousflavio, all others.
I've been battling our Whirlpool Duet and the same f11 problem for over a year and my main method was the punch and slam or the shims in the connector trick. I've wanted to dig in to the control box for sometime. Our machine officially refused to fall for my cheap tricks to coax it for another year. So I figured it was official, dig in or but a new box. I desoldered the relays (the iron and compressed air trick, but do wear safety goggles) and inspected both insides. In deed! Carbonized on one of them. Cleaned it off and even switched them around then resoldered both. I had left off the little relay covers as to view the action. At first click,click,click,click,click,click...DL...but I forgotten to check other contact point and yes...the black relay off to the side of the board OMRON G2RL-1A-E had a loose contact...#%@#$#$! Added some solder and tah-dah! F11...no its a loose connection! I wiggled it and it started up! Well, a beefing up of a little more solder at the contact point for the connector to hang on to helped. I popped the covers back for now and will obtain extra relays for near future. The contacts within the OMRON G5LE-1-VD will certainly gum up later. I discovered that one should not over heat the solder points since the copper traces are crappy. Do take care! Thanks All!!! Oh, the shim trick worked because the loose connection of the black relay or otherwards the right side when you face the connectors. Shims distorted the board enough to allow it to work.


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

After a dozen or so loads, everything is still working without any error codes. This was after adding solder to the contacts and resoldering the relays.***SEE MY FEB 24,2007 POST*** (I also cleaned carbon scoring on one of the relays but I think that was caused by the bad solder.)

BTW: I did mean the CCU (the white box at the rear top of the washer) and not the MCU.

If anybody has any questions about what I did, send me an email directly because I don't monitor this page regularly. I will reply with and email and/or post.

Thanks
Flavio


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

dalewj, My advice is don't buy a new board until you try resoldering the contacts (if you feel confident that you can do so safely). ***PLEASE SEE MY FEB 24,2007 POST***

I initially tried resoldering the relays...when I put the board back in, the machine DID NOT WORK AT ALL!!! So I pulled it out again (along with some hairs on my head) and that's how I discovered the probrlem with the contacts.


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

I posted on April 19th about having replaced my control unit, STILL no problems with my machine! Looking back at the past messages about soldering things, I decided to look at the board that was in the unit I took out (i think that's the one they are referring to) and there wasn't anything out of the ordinary like sooty looking contacts or solder points so I'm confident I couldn't have fixed that myself.
Thanks again!
sarahw822@msn.com


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

I removed my board and soldered the connection points!
WORKS GREAT! SO FAR! No more F11, F14 codes!
THANKS!


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

Still running without a single error code since February after resoldering the contacts and relays on the CCU!!!


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

Notoriousflavio, I tried to email you at hotmail and it bounced...

Glad to hear it's still working well for you!! I replaced my controller board a year ago and so far I'm not having trouble, but the first board didn't fail until about 15 months. I'd like to understand your resoldering solution better. I'm not quite sure where you're saying it needs resoldering. Do you by any chance have a picture you could
send that would clarify it? If so, could you email it to me at fritz#frii,com (make the obvious changes)?

Thanks!!
Gary


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

garyfritz, take a look at my Feb 24 post for details


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

I have a Kenmore HE3T washing machine. For about four months, I have been getting an "F-11" error code at times during the wash cycle. I'd have to press the "pause/cancel" button and then wait for the washer's brain to decide to continue the wash cycle. The repairman came today. He told me that the washer is fine. He explained that my wall outlet is to blame because it is wired wrong. When the guy put his circuit tester into each plug opening, it registered 120. But when he put both tester terminals into the left plug opening, the meter registered zero, as it did when he placed both terminals into the right opening. He called this problem with my outlet "cross polarization." He said it's causing my machine to fail. If this is the case, then why did my previous washing machine operate for 19 years without a problem? My DH is not buying the repair guy's diagnosis at all.

The repair guy also said that the washing machine's circuit board is easily "fried" and costs $400 to replace. I asked him why Sears didn't build in a surge protector if they knew the machine was so sensitive to voltage variances. I am frustrated!


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

I googled "cross polarization" and didn't find anything.

Since the outlet is AC, there really isn't any positive or negative to "cross polarize"- that's only in the DC world.

My guess is that explanation is "hooey". You probably have the same problem that I had. Check out my Feb 24 post.


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

Ten months, still working without a hitch. (See my Feb 24,2007 post.)


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

What a piece of junk this "top of the line" washer is! I spoke with Maytag who "manufactures" this model HE4t, and they told me that "We build these to Sears specifications and they tell us what to change and when to change it". I called Sears HQ in Chicago and inquired about why a machine that is less than 3 years old had one of the most expensive components fail and was told "Thats your problem and you have to pay to have it fixed, we aren't helping people with this problem". We are talking with an attorney friend who specializes in these types of issues and finding out if a class action lawsuit against Sears is feasible. If you are interested in joining the class - I'll be posting the outcome of that conversation here. Regardless of what the outcome is - Sears cards are history, shopping in either Sears or KMart is a non starter and I'll be looking for any opportunity to let current and potential Sears and KMart customers know what Sears customer service policy is.


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

Thanks to all the postings in this forum. I particularly liked thenotoriousflavio(thenotoriousflavio@hotmail.com) post on Sat, Feb 24, 07 at 22:04 posting, and decided to follow his advice.

Having no soldering experience, I decided to adventure to Radio Shack and bought the dual-heat soldering station and .032" siver bearing solder. All was less than $30, and all you really need is a 15 watt soldering iron which is half as much. I removed the 3 screws on the posterior superior washing machine and removed the top lid... labeled all the cables, deattached them, removed the white box, and removed the circuit board, all as described in the other posts.

I decided not to fiddle with changing the relays because it seemed too ambitious to start with. The erratic nature of the error is consistent with the theory of faulty contacts, not necessarily faulty relays. If you ever had an Atari or Nintendo that used cartridges, you know how a dirty or misaligned contact would make the game unplayable. This is analogous to what happens to this cheap board with cheap contacts (for example, computer boards are usually gold plated unlike this one).

As suggested, I did add solder material to both sides of each of the contacts connecting to the wires (more than 20). I am inexperienced and probably added too much, but tired to make the solder I added as thin as possible following the rectangular shape of the contacts. I also re-heated and added solder to the contact points of the 5 relays. The 3 black relays have 6 contacts each, and the 2 larger white relays 5 contacts each. I put everything back together and the F11 error went away.

However, after 3 minutes of starting the washing cycle I got an F05 error which is a water temperature sensor error, but no more F11 error. I think I either made one of the contacts for the water sensor too thick or the solder was bridging between two contacts. I thinned the suspicious contact and grabbed a extremely small flat screwdriver, like those for fixing the eyeglasses, and passed the flat head perpendicular between all the contacts in the board (as if making a very superficial groove between the contacts to remove any microscopic solder material between the contacts). I then cleaned the contacts with alcohol to remove any solder dust between the contacts. I think this reduced the chance of any short circuit between the contacts due to my beginner soldering skills.

We have washed 8 loads so far without any errors, and I'm my wife's hero. All for less than $30, and just a few hours of work.

Prior to this, Sears visited us for: $112 to tell us everything was fine, and ultimately offered to change the circuit boards for $450 in parts + labor and only a 90 day warranty. I would have bought a new washer if it had not been for these posts.

Thanks to all and a happy new year!


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

Hello, Happy holidays to everyone. Just wanted to say hpgru I did the same thing to our he4t and it worked for 3 months then it completely went dead. Ended up being 2 blown resistors on the computer board, I replaced the resistors and it blew them again, I think one of the relays was shorted out. Vibration causing bad connections on computer board is a major factor on this machine. We replaced the cpu board and its been working for about 3 weeks now, New board can be found on net for about $150.00. I hope you have better luck than I had. I thought I finally had the problem fixed. The computer board on this machine is nothing but problems. Good luck Craig


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

The end of 2007 brought membership to the "elite" fraternity known as HE3t F11/Fdl code ownership. I replaced the latch (cheapapplianceparts.com -- good price and fast delivery) but problem continued intermittently.

I followed the advice posted earlier, and touched up all of the solder on the relay pins (the two white Omrons, and the black Omron on the far right.) I also popped the covers off of the white Omrons, and cleaned carbon from the contact on the right hand relay (the one that fires the latch) Reinstalled board without top cover. Right relay throws nice arc when firing lock and unlock solenoids. Probably will replace this in the future. Problem has not come back as of yet. Will keep all posted. It appears that they use the black Omron to switch one leg of the filtered power, but I do not see why. They obviously did it for a reason, so I will not bypass or modify it. Anyway, I think that the black Omron was my problem, as I could hear the white relay "click" when it tried to lock the latch.

Easiest way to check latch operation is via the diagnostic mode (complete directions in the tech sheet that can be found by removing the bottom panel, and it is packaged on the right hand wall.) Select any wash setting, select DRAIN and SPIN, then select NO SPIN. Hit PREWASH four times within five seconds, and see C:00 come up on display. Latch should lock. Hit Cancel before C:01 comes up, and latch should unlock. (You can cycle all the way up to C:08 and check all of the functions, but I was only interested in the latch operation.)


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

Our HE3t has been exhibiting the dreaded F11 error on and off now for the past year. It finally reached criticality this afternoon and resulted in an ultimatum from my wife... fix it or get me a new washer.
After perusing this forum I decide to go with "thenotoriousflavio" solder solution. The execution was relatively simple - just pop the lid, pull the box and take out the board; then apply a bit of silver solder to each contact. Note - label all the wires and their locations and take it slow and careful. I didn't touch the relays - wanted something else to address if this doesn't do the trick 8^)
After reassembling, the machine took right off and we've now run two loads. I'll advise on any further progress.


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

Can anyone tell me where to purchase the G5LE-1-VD relays in Canada? I am rural so a website would be perfect.

Thanks! Any help greatly appreciated.
Andrew


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

GOOD NEWS!

15 Months since my Feb 24, 2007 post fix and still working without a single error.


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

Kenmore Washer He4t

Save Your Money!

In addition to adding fresh solder to the circuit board connections pop the cover off of K4 and use a contact burnishing tool. I looked at both relays carefully and noticed that the contacts were charred on just one of them. I traced the circuit and learned that one relay (K1) is used for the selection of "Lock" or "Unlock". Then relay K4 is closed momentarily to activate the selected solenoid.

Solenoids are nothing more than a coil of wire that pulls an iron rod to created motion. That coil, when energized, builds up a magnetic field. When the relay opens, the magnetic field collapses and generated a "back EMF" and a small lightning strike that burns a small crater in the contact faces. Do this enough and you essentially have "craters of the moon" on the contact faces.

So, I added fresh solder to the connectors just on the upper and lower edge contacts labeled "J8" (on the circuit board) and used my contact burnishing tool on the contacts of K4. I have done this twice and each time I do this I can expect about a year or more of normal operation. The first time was without the aid of this great website.

I live close to the Pacific Ocean with the corrosive salt air so I kind of expect this sort of thing.

I hope this helps!

Richard


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

I too have this problem with an HE3T purchased in 8/04. The problem started intermittently about 6 months after the warranty expired and lately has been worse.

I was getting mostly F/DL problems. I replaced the DL and it worked great for a few weeks and then started again with F/11 F/DL errors. I removed the board and cleaned the white relay contacts. One was clean and the other was black. Then I added some solder to all the connectors which made all cables tight.

This too worked great for about 3 weeks. I no longer get the F/DL but get the F/11 codes now. It only seems to do it on during the super-high speed spin so I assume something is vibrating loose. I finally gave up and ordered a new board from Sears. I complained and they offered $100 reimbursement towards the part but I had to order if from Sears which costs more than some of the online shops but at least I have a case number with Sears that shows this washer is crap.

The board came and one of the tabs that holds one of the cables was broke but I installed it anyway hoping to get rid of the f/11 erros. I used a rubber band to secure the one tab-less cable (wasn't the one to the motor controller). I was sure this would resolve the problem.

It did not. I still get the f/11 errors with this brand new board. Does anyone have any ideas on what to check next? All the cables on the new board are secure.

Most people have resolved the problem with a new board and I am going to get a 2nd new board since the one I have is damaged but I don't have much faith in that fixing the problem. I am wondering if the motor, motor controller, or wiring harness could be to blame and if there are any quick fixes. Since it only happens during the hi speed spin, I could only imagine that something is coming loose.


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

The F/11 and F/DL codes are a pain in the you-know-what! It amazes me that I can do a dozen loads without problems and then the washer will start throwing error codes at me again. I'd set up a service call at one point. Then noticed the door assembly was not tight. Took a Torx to that and fixed it. Machine was fine for a while and I cancelled the service call. Soon after that F/11's showed up again.

I called again and scheduled service. The tech came last week. I had to help him run the diagnostics (which I'd learned about from this website!). He just sort of stared at the machine for a while then said the board was bad and had to be replaced. So now we're into about a $650 repair job, waiting for the part to ship to us. The tech is supposed to be back a day or two later to replace the board.

One complication is that our w/d are stacked! I assumed since "stack-ability" was a selling point that service could be done to them in that position. Not so for this particular repair. The dryer has to come off the washer for the board replacement. The tech said we'd have to pay for a second person's labor for someone else to come with him to help move the dryer out of the way. We said no to the extra $160+ charge and are planning on moving the dryer out ourselves prior to the service call. I'm not looking forward to any of this!

As someone posted elsewhere ... I have a Love/Hate relationship with my washer. Bought in Nov. 2004, worked fine until the 3-year warranty expired!


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

Can someone please advise how to remove the white control box at the top?

I found two prongs going into the rear which popped easily but the top is fastened to the metal running the length of the rear. It appears the lid attached to the metal has several small clips attaching to the body of the box underneath it.

Do I release all of these and the control box drops down with the lid still attached to the metal?

Thanks in advance.


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

The FIX IS IN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Look at the notoriousflavio Feb 24, 2007 post and do what he says and it will be the last error code you receive!!!!!!!!!!!!
I did it and my machine works great again.

SEARS SUCKS! After 20 loyal years and $10's of thousands spent there, I cancelled my account because they are stinking greedy cheats. This was a simple flaw they could have fixed. Dont call sears to get this fixed, dont order a new mother board. just fix it.


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

I have an HE4T washer and I am only getting an F error code with no numbers after it? Has anyone seen this and if so what is up? I had expected to see some type of numbers...
HELP PLEASE!


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Ok. I have my HE3T torn into pieces. Need a little help.

I have He3t, Model: 110.49972600. I am getting F11, and have the thing apart right now. Two Sears reps, 3 answers, no fixes.

I am ready to solder, replace, etc.

There are 3 electronic components in the HE3t (apparently slightly different from the HE4t.

Motor Control Unit: PN 818396 (Motor control, white square, bottom left-Front) - sounds just like the He4T

Micro Computer, machine control: PN: 8183257 (Grey Box, square with protrusion, Top Front Right, with MANY connections) - The board is apart in my hand (l-shaped), with 4 black, and 1 white relay on main board, just below the connecting "L" board, which has transistors, capacitors, etc.

Some connector attached to the door lock that sits between two parts above. I can't actually find this part on Sears website, and cannot get to it easily.

Which part are you guys soldering connections / replacing relays on?

Thanks,

- Tim


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

We have a Kenmore Elite HE4t that started showing the F11 and dl codes. The machine did not want to work properly on the warm water cycle. My wife then started using cold water cycles successfully. After awhile the cold water cycle started getting the F11 and dl codes too. The machine got worse and worse. It is out of Warranty so I called Sears to try to buy a repair manual and I was told there was not one available for this machine. I found that hard to believe! I called Whirlpool and they told me I had to buy the manual through Sears. What a run around! Sears told me a new computer board would run approximately $369.00. I started checking around and found a site where I could purchase a Whirlpool manual and the board at less than half of the Sears price. THEN I FOUND THIS SITE! I read all of the posts and fotunately found "thenotoriousflavio" posting from Feb. 24 07. I followed his advice and added solder to all of the board contact locations and reassembled the machine. My wife has run warm water loads again and is on her 4th load with absolutely no error codes!! The "notoriousflvio" appears to be a genius . THANK YOU "notoriousflavio". I would add one additional step to his instructions: I purchased a wrist grounding strap just to make sure I didn't ruin the board with a static electricity discharge. I think it is a small price to make sure you don't ruin the board trying to fix it. For those having problems with this machine, I highly recommend trying "the notoriousflavio's" fix. Good luck to all that are willing to spend a little time.


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HE4t : removing the white control box

to jimmp.

The white control box is attached to the metal with the 3 wide plastic clips at the top of the metal strip. These 3 clips have a tab that clicks into a hole in the metal plate. The tabs/clips are approximately 1" wide and must be very carefully raised up to disengage the tab from the hole in the metal. I used 2 small bladed screw drivers on each tab and as I disengaged the clip, I slid the box forward and away from ther metal clip. Take it slow and easy so that you don't break those clips off. Hope this helps you.


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

Dear Members of the Elite F11 Group,

We are new to soldering and have a question about where to do it on the curcuit board. We have the board out and know where the relays are, but when posts say "Heat up the contact point for each harness connection on the TOP AND BOTTOM OF BOARD and add a thin layer of solder" does that mean we need to somehow solder under the Omron white boxes? or do we just apply solder on the bottom of the board (flipping it over)? If we do need to get solder under the boxes, how do you do that? Do we need to heat up the joints first, take the relay box off, and then solder above the board and underneath? Do we need to take the cover off the relay box for anything (someone said that carbon builds up in there and needs to be cleaned) and if so, how do we pop the top off the relay box?

Thank you all for your help and clarification. This has been a nightmare as you all can relate to, I am sure.
Jennee


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

I did this to my washer after two weeks of getting the f11 errors. Since then, I have done probably 12 loads of wash with no errors. The place to add the solder to is the tabs/contacts where all of the connectors connect to. There must be at least 30 along two sides of the board. I did both top and bottom of the board. It should be a very thin coat of solder and be careful not to overheat. If you put it on too thick, you will have a hard time getting the connectors back on. After the first attempt, I must have shorted two contacts together, since the washer would not start. I removed the board, checked for solder bridges with a utility knife and reinserted the board. Has worked perfectly since. My wife is thrilled and amazed.

Mark


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

Thanks for all the advice. We have just begun the "F" error journey on our HE3T Kenmore. After surveying all the great information, I have decided to dive into the solder repair tonite and see what happens. Wish me luck. Will post the results as soon as I get them.


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

Thanks a lot to all of you for the helpful info. I too had that nasty f11 for about 2 weeks. I did the solder trick and all is fine as of my 15th load. I was going to buy the new CCU board but thought I'd try solder and see what happens. For anyone that may need to order the new CCU Board the number is 8182689 was 8182636 for the HE4t.

James


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

HAPPY TO SAY after almost to years after my fix of Feb 24 2007, I'm still error-free. I haven't even had to repeat the fix!


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

Thanks to "thenotoriousflavio". His post on 24Feb2007 was right on. We bought an Kenmore Elite HE3t washer in Oct2004 and I can't recall exactly when we started to receive the F11 error code; however, suffice it to say that it had been annoying us for years. Like all the others who have posted, the F11 error code revealed itself much earlier than one would expect for a top of the line washer (at the time of purchase). For those that have been dealing with the F11 error code, the DL error code is its ugly sister. I was frustrated to the point that I ripped the door open while it was still latched/locked with the display flashing the DL error. Thus my short temper resulted in me having to replace the door lock mechanism inside the door (cost ~$45). This door lock fix was performed roughly two years before the fix below. Obviously it only fixed the part that I broke and did not remedy the F11 error codes that were randomly occurring, and occurring more and more often as time went on.

I never could figure out why the F11 error code was occurring randomly throughout the years. Thanks to flavio's suggestion, I fixed the problem! It works, DO IT BEFORE YOU CALL THE REPAIR MAN! Last night I added solder to the BOTTOM side of the CCU board where the wire harnesses' contacts are. Then I hooked the wires back up to the CCU and ran a Normal/Casual wash. The washer worked for a single wash cycle. The second wash cycle resulted in the F11 error message again! I was nearly at my wits end! But it seemed as though the idea to add new solder was probably the fix because you could clearly see that the wiring harnesses contact points' original solder had been worn and gouged (especially on the bottom side of the CCU). I took the CCU out again and added solder to the wire harnesses contact points on the TOP of the CCU. This worked! I completed 4 different cycles today: Normal/Casual, Express, Whites and Delicate. All four completed with no errors. I'll give updates quarterly for the next year to let you know how long this fix works for me.

I am a happy camper now and also my wife's hero. Sweet!

SOLDER USED: I used the M.G. Chemical brand Lead Free Silver Solder, 21 Gauge (0.032" diameter); cost $4.99. I got it at a local electronics supply store which had a much better selection of electronics parts and better quality that Radio Shack. I had never soldered before, so I had to buy a solder gun as well. The total cost was $43 for these two items. I see from earlier posts that having a repairman come to fix this problem would have cost hundreds of dollars.

TIME to fix: Total time needed to make this fix, which includes removing CCU from the white box/casing, soldering top and bottom contacts points for the wire harnesses and reinstalling etc. = 1.5 - 2 hours). I took the recommendation from a previous post to label the white CCU casing/box and wire harnesses prior to removing the wire harnesses from the CCU so that you don't hook them back up in the wrong location.


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

Hi there!

Thanks to everyone here I did the fix myself 2 weeks ago and it went great!

I took photos and created a step by step guide with hi-res images to help anyone else who's trying to fix this annoying problem.

You should know too - I've never touched a circuit board before in my life so this fix is EASY!

http://he4tf11.blogspot.com/

Here is a link that might be useful: Fixing HE4t F11 Error Code


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

Thank you everyone, especially thenotoriousflavio. This thread rocks! It is incredible how lame the craftsmanship is in these top-of-the-line appliances, and it's even more amazing how such an inexpensive and effective solution has been provided by this forum. I especially like the illustrated guide posted by davidghe4t. God I love the internet!

Anyway, I just fixed my HE3t machine according to the resoldering suggestions posted here. 5 consecutive loads so far without any error codes! I have two small comments to make:

1- The circuit board is indeed from the CCU (computer control unit) at the top back of the machine, not the MCU (motor control unit) at the bottom left side of the machine. Read through all of thenotoriousflavio's posts as he later corrects his original post which calls for making the fix on the MCU. I almost missed this.

2- It may be better to use standard 60/40 tin/lead solder instead of silver solder. Although not as environmentally friendly, it has a lower melting temperature, which would make it less likely for you to damage components on the circuit board from excess heat. The guy at Radio Shack told me this.

My wife and I were going to take our HE3t washer and dryer with us when we move later this year, but now we're thinking of starting fresh with another brand. Does anyone have any recommendations for another frontloader model?


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

I think it is great that folks can do these "do it yourself" modifications and save their machines!

I do have a problem with Whirlpool dissing all these people for such a minor fix that they could do to appease the public. Just replace the boards with upgraded replacements!

When Maytag had all its problems with Neptune, they spent millions and millions of dollars doing OUT OF WARRANTY repairs and upgrades to these machines. They spent millions and millions on design changes to improve MANY areas of complaint. Even millions upgrading and improving the so called "mold issue" that we all now know was the result of POOR OWNER USAGE, overdosing detergent, using cold only washes, etc etc as ALL front loaders have the same issues with similar usage. They changed the control boards, motor and controller, door latches, ventilation system, door seals, door venting, outer tubs and spindles, sump and drain pumps, water valves, dispensers, nearly everything multiple times.

Yet this wasn't enough and the people drove Maytag into class action suit and into importing even crappier machines and calle them Neptune too, and eventually out of business.

And now these people let Whirlpool, the new owners of Maytag BTW, get by with this control board prolem without hardly a wimper.

I think when you reflect back on Maytag, that we really lost a company that wanted to serve its customer base and now we only have companies that could care less. Whirlpool owns so many name brands that you have little choice but to buy them or some import with questionable service capabilities.

In the end all you can say is be careful what you wish for....


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

I am on my second go round with the F11 problem. Has anyone heard any progress on the class action suit a la following link:
http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/laundry/msg0717144512415.html

If the problem is overheating, why don't they put a fan in the washer like on a computer?
Do I need to replace the relays on the Motor control unit board or just beef up the solder on the contacts?

Thanks


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

Thanks to everyone for sharing their stories, it's comforting to know that I'm not alone with the dreaded F11 codes.
Special thanks to 'thenotoriousflavio' and 'davodghe4t' for their insight into a DIY fixit, and for the inspiration to try it myself.
After a few months of this problem getting progrssively worse, my wife phoned the Sears repairman. After searching the net a bit (and thankfully coming across this thread!) I narrowed my problem to the CCU.
I phoned Sears, and the repalcement board was over $400. (Although I found it on ApplianceZone.com for just under $150.)
However, I decided to follow in your guys' footsteps, and attempt to fix it myself. (Thanks 'davidghe4t' for the photos on your blogsite)!
After buying a $20, 30 watt soldering iron at Circuit City, and spending an hour taking the washer apart & soldering the relay connections on the CCU top & bottom, I am proud to report... IT WORKS!! I will call Sears shortly to cancel the repairman.
My wife & I are so happy to have the washer working again, and we saved over $500! It really was easy.
Anyone experiencing an F11 code should do this (I'm lookin at u Kulamoola). All it takes is a little solder.
Thanks again!!!!


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

There's no need for class action suits, soldering the connections or even removing the pcb. The failures are caused by contact fretting. Tin/lead contacts are highly vulnerable, especially in a damp, corrosive atmosphere. The solution is simple. Provide something to clean and lubricate the contact and provide a barrier to protect the contact. You can do this with something you probably already have in the house. Ordinary white petroleum jelly. It is an old radio engineer's trick from the 1930's. My machine could not finish a single load without giving F/11 or F/dl errors. After applying the vaseline, it now runs perfectly.

For more information, please see my post on mysteryonion's page at

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mysteryonionpatch/471156850

To find it, search for "monettsys". It is dated Wed Feb 25, 2009, 11:58:03 pm, near the bottom of the page.

Best Wishes,

Mike Monett
pstca.com

Here is a link that might be useful: contact fretting information


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

The solder on the computer board is bad. Remove the solder and replace it with new solder for circuit cards (you can get it at radio shack).

We have had the same problem with our washer since we purchased it in 2004. Sears technicians replaced both the latch and computer. After scrolling through many of these posts, I finally found one that offered a different solution than replacing the latch or computer. It stated the solder used for the transitors/diodes and capacitors on the computer circuit board was inferior and caused the issues.

I went to radio shack, purchased a solder removal iron (has a red bulb near the point), some electronic solder w/ flux, a soldering gun and some curcuit cleaning spray. Total cost was ~ $60. I took the top off of the washing machine (screws are in the back), and then disconnected each of the wires going into the curcuit board. Before doing this, I placed a numbered small piece of scotch tape around each wire to simplify re-assembly. The wires snap onto the circuit card, so be very careful disconnecting them so you don't break the fragile security snaps for each. They ensure the wires remain connected when the machine is shaken during spin cycles. I then pulled out the curcuit card, flipped it over onto a dense foam mat and then proceeded to heat/remove each of the solder connections. Do not hold the solder removal tip on the back of the solder joint any longer than necessary to heat the solder to a liquid state. Once all of the solder was removed, I sprayed the back of the card with circuit cleaning spray and re-soldered each transitor/capacitor/resistor. I then placed the circuit card back in the rectangular holder, reconnected the wires, put on the top and have not had a single problem with this washing machine since. It has been 5-months with perfect operation! So for a machine out of warranty, I spent only $60 and took 1-hour to fix it. Much less than a service call, replacement latch or computer. Especially since those have been replaced previously.

Thank you for your site and especially to the respondant who suggested this fix. It worked like a champ!!


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

Thanks everyone for sharing your experiences -- both good and bad. My wife and I have been experiencing these same F11 and FDL errors for several months now. However, before I pursue self repair, I wanted feedback on whether I should attempt this while my HE4T is still under warranty (expires June 2010). I don't want to risk invalidating my warranty coverage if possible. Thoughts?


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

I am in the same situation as imp8cent, as my washer is still under warranty...

But I have contacted Sears twice now... and have had two moronic technicians come in to "fix" my washer...
The first said the washer needed to be reset... he unplugged it for a few minutes and re-plugged it saying it was fixed.
The next guy told me that the errors were due to my electrical outlet!!!!!
I have never been so infuriated by customer service, until these recent incidents with Sears...
It seems to me that they want to get away with not fixing anything at all... instead of accepting that their washer is faulty, they turn around and blame it on the customer!!!! Unbelievable!!!!

I don't know that I am completely comfortable with fixing the washer myself, since the washer is covered!!! I don't know what I need to do so that Sears realizes that the washer is unusable. Because all the technician could tell me was that whenever the error code comes up that I need to unplug the washer. Seriously!!!! I made an appointment for this guy to walk in and out of my house within 5 minutes!!!!! Help!!! Any thoughts?!?


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

I have had the same problem with my 2004 HE4T washer. Of course the warranty ran out last July of '08 when it started throwing the dreaded F11 and FDL error codes. This would only happen every few weeks or so when it first started. Then this past January it started doing it weekly till finally every wash. We tried all of the quick fixes of checking connections, soldering the contact points and replacing relays. The soldering did help for a couple of weeks but then we started getting the error codes back again. The relays did not help at all, but I was only out $10. So we gave up and ordered the CCU board. Looked around to find one, most places were under $200. Thought I would give ebay a try and lo and behold found a new one on there for $50. Emailed the seller and he told me that it was brand new. Just got it in the mail this week and installed. So far So Good. Working like a champ right now. I am going to keep my eyes open for another one just to have on hand for an extra one.

On a sidenote, I talked with a customer of mine who works for sears in the appliance department. I have told her about my issues with the HE4T washer. She said that is why you cannot find them on the showroom floors anymore. You can find the HE3T and HE5T but not 4T. This shows you that Sears does know that there is a problem but they do not want to fess up to it. Hopefully a civil suite will get things rolling somewhere. I live in Florida and there is not one in this state yet.


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

I took a chance ordering from Shopjimmy.com because I could only find one review, but the chance really paid off.

I ordered a processor (8182695) for my Whirlpool Duet, which is the same as the Kenmore HE4T, from them on Friday 7-24 for $98 (half price!) and it arrived Wednesday 7-29. The best price I found elsewhere on the net was $149, but the average was $198. Can't beat Shopjimmy's pricing.

I had called before ordering and the representative was knowledgeable, polite and she did not pressure me. She verified the washing machine parts are new.

The CPU was well packed and worked out of the box.

I'm going to order a spare from them as soon as I get some $.

I would recommend shopping at Shopjimmy.

Ken S


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

5 months and still going strong /w no issues since soldering the CCU connections. :)
I would do this even under warranty, it's quick & easy.
Obviously the Sears techs are of no help. Even if you pointed them straight to the problem, they probably still wouldn't lsiten.
If you can find a new board for a good price, that's great, but the connections will surely wear again over time. A good helping of solder on each side of the board shouldn't ever wear out.
Put the new board in and try your hand at soldering the old one, what do you have to lose?


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

I want to THANK all those who have come before me with the info they have shared. After having all the error codes at some point in time and after taking my machine apart and finding the MCU board I determined the relays were defintetly the problem so I went to the local electronics store and $12 and about a week later I had the new parts. The machine worked intermittently during this time. So it finally quit while giving me the Door Lock (DL) error so I got myself a helper and unstacked the machines and disassembled everything and replaced the relays. Everything is working like a champ. Thanks again to all and good luck to everyone else.


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

What a fantastic thread. It has taken several hours to read through, but is just rife with good information I don't think any of us should lose. So I'm bumping this up with many thanks to all for the contributions. I'm going to start my soldering adventures soon.

But first let me just ask anyone who might be still reading this: do you think monett's suggestion just to lubricate the connections is worth a try? Certainly easier than soldering. Would it likely be adequate? I certainly remember how I always used to lubricate every connection and then somehow, just seem to have forgotten that -- remember all that car battery cleaning and all the vaseline that went onto those terminals? Even in a lifetime one can forget the wisdom. thanks for the reminder, Monett. But ... could it really be adequate?

Thanks all -- happy reading!

--sad to have become a member of the not-so-elite F11 club.


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

I did it I did it I did it!!!!

I'm shaking like a leaf, but I *did* it!

Or at least, it turns on and is washing away ... don't know if it will throw a code come vibration/spin time. But at least I managed to get all those squirrely connections back together again, and actually didn't make a solder bridge, seemingly.

Wow; I am not as young as I used to be when I soldered. My hand *shook* like crazy! That was easier when younger. And I had to use magnifying/reading glasses. Makes me feel such an old geezer; I haven't soldered anything in 25 years.

I tried to get my kids interested: "Do you want to see your mother fix the washing machine": "Why".

Then dh: "I'm not going to have anything to do with *that*. I'll come look at what you're doing, but *I'm* not going to do that".

sigh.

There's noone for whom I'm even a hero now. Except maybe someone on this board? :)

I only even burned myself once!

And for the record, FWIW, my Radio Shack had .015 mm "High Tech" 62/36/2 silver-bearing solder and electronic cleaner & lubricant which I used and seemed to cover everything with a nice film of grease, which I think speaks to the fretting issue. The very thin solder was a big help I think. There wasn't anything else with the silver in the solder, but I think I got the right stuff. Radio shack didn't have one of those spark-deflector wrist bands so I made sure I wasn't wearing any of my usual wool, and took off my shoes and touched the faucet to ground myself a lot as I know I happen to build up quite a lot of static electricity for some reason; my clothes? my person? Dunno but I am a walking teslacoil. Or something.

The hardest part - the terrifying part - was all that brittle plastic. My machine is close to 10 years old I think (6-10 years; can't quite pinpoint it better than that. I thought the youngest was still in diapers but she claims to remember its delivery).

I found it completely terrifying trying to lift up the plastic tabs holding the contacts in place and then prying the whole box off the machine and then pushing those tabs in to get the board itself out. All very, very tight and brittle movements. I don't think anything snapped in the end, but I'm shocked not. As many have said: Go Slowly. I tend to panic in these situations, but I don't think it's wise. Slow and patient....

DH just said I was his hero. All is well...


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

I bought my Kenmore HE4t washer in 2004 ... and I guess I was lucky enough to go until 2010 without the dreaded 'F11' code ... but sooner or later, it sounds like everyone gets one. Anyhow, I did consider trying to fix the problem (soldering and new relays) on my own, but instead I removed the 'box' containing the control board (numbering each set of wires and using a sharpee to write each cooresponding number where the wires plugged into the box) and I contacted a repair facility called Digital Auto Technology (DAT) ... telephone (951) 734-2700 (they're located in Corona, CA). You can mail your control box with the board still in it to them, and they will fix your board, seal the box (for warranty purposes) and mail it back to you for $75. I live close enough that I chose to drop it off and then I picked it up the next day. I re-installed it ... and it seems to be working great.

DAT has a ebay storefront ... and it mentions that the price is $65, plus $10 shipping. Mailing it to them, or dropping it off ... they'll still charge you a total of $75.

But now that it's all done, my wife is happy ... and you know what they say ... "Happy Wife ... Happy Life".

I hope this helps others


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

Thank you so much everyone! I was about to throw out my washer and just buy a new one, NOT same brand of course and not from Sears, customer service was dissapointing. But now I am going to tackle this on my own and let you all know how it turns out and I am hoping to be doing laundry again very soon? Aliris19, you are my Hero and because of your post, I feel confident to tackle this resolution. ;-)


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

@Steve, I paid the $75.00 for the company to soder and put new relays for me and it worked like a charm!! You saved me, only $75.00 to fix this problem that has laster a couple years of not using my washing machine. I lived close enough to drop it off at 9am and pick it up by 3pm, guy is super nice and fast and works on these more than we all want to know! Home by 5pm and doing laundry by 5:30pm and ever since. We are now on our 2nd week going on 3rd and no problems at all! Waht a relief! Thanks again steve for the post and Thanks DAT for the help!!! recovering F11 club member, LOL


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes (solenoid locati

Solenoid location? Help Please.
Hi everybody, I will never buy another Kenmore product EVER. I cleaned and soldered the connections, and tightened the tabs in the plugs but I am still getting error codes. Where are the solenoids located, down by the motor? Help please.
My current error code is just plain F, then I have to press the pause button then the start button again, then it starts. However, I cannot use the spin, or drain cycles separately, this thing is crazy, and I have had the top unscrewed from my washer for years just to gain constant access.


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

Cleaning and swapping the position of the two white relays AND re-soldering the black relay on the left side of the board worked for me so far. I did also go around and add solder to all of the connection tabs.

3 loads done with no errors, which is way better than it was. I didn't think re-soldering the black relay was going to help, but I did notice that when I was putting it back on the solder was not taking as nicely as all of the other connections. I suspect the board itself may have an issue in this spot. I plan to order and install the higher amp relays in place of the existing white relays as a followup.

This forum, as well as the link I provided with this post are very helpful.

Here is a link that might be useful: Helpful Link with Pictures of Board


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

I believe there is something to another user's post about bad solder joints being on this board. I say this because I cleaned my contacts on my door lock relay and I noticed the relay would work depending on how I positioned the CCU. It worked quite well with the cover off but never with the cover on. If I flexed the CCU unit and pressed start, my door locks fine. I just reinstalled my ccu in its mounting position and its working atm.. hopefully I'll get lucky and it will work for a while longer. I really don't want to break out my soldering iron if I don't have to.


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

After all the fantastic information on this website [with a special tip of the hat to thenotoriousflavio], I felt obliged to register and post info that may potentially help someone with that dreaded F11 error on the HE3t Kenmore washers. Thanks to everyone who has posted helpful information. Here are the symptoms, troubleshooting, and solutions for my problem:
1. My symptoms were F11 every time. Not intermittent. Symptoms began the morning after an electrical storm and I suspected a power surge. Washer would not run. No door lock error, just F11.
2. Reseating wires on CCU did not help
3. Reseating wires on MCU did not help
4. Resoldering CCU relays did not help
5. Resoldering black relays on MCU initially seemed to solve it, but it may have also been due to my efforts to use a pin to bend the teeth in the cable connector to try to get more "grab" on the circuit board
6. Worked a few times, but then recurred. My interpretation is that the cables move a bit during a wash cycle and lose the perfect electrical connection.
7. Diagnostics ran fine, but intermittent F11 recurred
8. Pulled boards again, added solder to thicken ribbon contacts on both MCU and CCU
9. Installed, flashing and beeping. Cleaned contacts with contact cleaner, wiped down, scraped a bit of solder that may have shorted across two contacts. Note that it is a BAD IDEA to try to hook up the ribbon cables without the plastic case installed. The plastic case helps align the cables.
10. Reinstalled. Everything good. Has worked for dozens of loads over several weeks. Thickening the contacts on the CCU for the ribbon cables appeared to be the critical fix. Despite a suspected power surge during a lightning storm, building the thickness of the contacts appears to be the fix.


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

Hey Mariposa -- we'll be mutual heros. Your post made me smile! For the record, I've practically forgotten this whole episode. All the leaf-shaking I wrote about - I do remember it was a huge relief to be done, but the specifics of the terror in doing it and the more or less complete indifference from the family: all gone.

But in the meantime, it seems to be 17 months later already without an error code. I will note that things do seem to be a tad less "tight" than formerly, meaning that it takes longer to spin dry than it used to and its estimate of time remaining seems more and more off. I vaguely recall these symptoms prior to the codes starting to go off. But there hasn't been anything yet.

I think most of the above information seems fairly consistent by now.

I love GW! ;)


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

Some further "F11" data.

We've had our HE4T since 2005 and I replaced the lower hose earlier this year due to a slow water leak. This was relatively easy and successful -- the failure was caused by the considerable vibration normal to the machine. F11 began to show up in the last few months prompting a reading of this very helpful forum. I am an experienced electronics technician with prior experience in various technologies, but not washing machines. Thanks for the commentary on your adventures. It was very helpful.

As has been previously mentioned, any work on this equipment must begin with complete disconnection from power at the wall outlet.

Three screws at the top rear of the machine free up the top cover for removal.

Removal of the control board requires considerable care, patience and controlled force. It is not to be taken lightly. As all of you have done, I began by making notation details on the housing with a fine pointed permanent magic marker necessary for reassembly of the various plugs. To remove the plugs, I used a small screwdriver to pry and remove the various latches holding them in place. The top housing of the control board was removed and cable restraints were loosened as needed. My control board did not simply lift from the lower housing -- it may be that the production process had been changed -- I was required to carefully pry against the board to free it from three retainers to gain access to the lower circuitry.

Once the board was free, It was handled by the edges to minimize any likely static discharge. It was repaired in a relatively humid environment. Presence of hot water or steam nearby will assure this. Both Omron G5LE-1-VD relays were removed with a suction de-soldering tool and examined for burned contacts -- this time it was the right hand one found damaged. Both were replaced by R46-5D12-12 relays -- upgrading to 12 ampere ratings from the original 10 amperes. These are very inexpensive -- only $5.00 each. All soldering was done with silver solder, paste rosin flux, and liberal heat from a 40 watt iron.

A second major problem was evident. A large number of solder fractures were found around the larger board components Close examination -- better seen with a magnifying glass -- clearly indicated the problem areas. Frequently, these cannot be seen, and entire areas around the larger components were routinely resoldered with silver solder, good rosin flux, and liberal heat from a 40 watt iron. The causes of these fractures appear to be two fold. The eyelets and inserted component leads should have been more closely fit (a fine detail) and with the usual machine vibration added into the equation, the solder joints were failing. (Cracking, fracturing, poor solder joints) The eyelets should be smaller for a tighter fit.

A careful reassembly was uneventful and the machine now is running perfectly.

Overall, the HE4T seems to be well designed electronically, and with some now upgraded construction, it is expected to serve its purpose well. These things are complicated!! But, I'll take my reworked board over any coming off the assembly line…It's hand constructed.

Take good care, and good washing!

1fixitman1


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RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

Do these specific codes actually mean anything in the end? After being nicely fixed for however long it's been ... I guess it's been two years now, my machine is definitely kaput again. But it's not throwing "F11" codes but instead beeping and then usually it says "Sud" ... what does that mean? Do you suppose it's the same, solder problem in another guise? Or does this mean something different?

I'm planning on opening things up again and applying more solder as it worked so well before. Unless someone has something else to offer?

Here's some data: using the 'normal' button the problem is the machine just can't seem to "see" what's going on, when the load is done. It may not be rotating fast enough? It does worse with heavier loads, increasingly worse over 5 or so months. I can work around the problem of not getting it to end by using different buttons - the rinse/spin or spin only buttons on the side left strip. This is what's making me think there's a soldering-communications problem; that one buttons' communications are problematic especially. Is this nuts of me? Anyway, seems it wouldn't be too hard just to reopen it up and put some more solder on there...

thoughts anyone please?


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F2 also?

Actually mine is also throwing "F2" codes...


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bingo: clogged outlet

SUCCESS!!

A half hour ago I was sitting down to report failure. For the record I'll report what I did. But the punch line is: google the real problem. I was not actually having F11 or F14 codes, I was having Sud and F02 codes and it does make a difference. There's a good thread about Sud/F02 codes here.

And the moral is: While writing this I just had to jump up and check on my machine because it was spinning so audibly fast. It hasn't done that in a *loooong* time. Let me tell you why:

The Sud/F02 code is apparently due to a blocked outlet. On retrospect, everything points to this simple answer. I didn't add things together before hand. It's been a long time since I've heard water leaving the drum. And it hasn't spun hard in ages either. The symptoms were longer and longer for the machine to finish its cycle until finally it just failed and started throwing codes eventually. And recently water is left in the drum a little bit too (when someone else used it; I manipulated things so that didn't happen).

So all this adds up to: plugged drain. The drain is located behind the bottom panel, removed with three hex screws (see link above). There's a 3" plastic plug to remove and in mine was: ripped plastic hose, broken pen parts, many, many of them (I'm going to kill my teenager), and disposable dental floss picks (I'm going to kill dh), and eraser caps (I'm going to kill my tweenager), and a really, really thick plug of grease and hair and compressed lint and other gook that was just its own unique substance. Oh my.

As suggested in the link above, do have many, many towels ready to sop up much, much water that will come out. Also in my water is about 2 TB at least of heavy white grains -- maybe that's just sand -- dh is a marine biologist and teen is a jr lifeguard, spending much time on the beach. Would sand that sits in water soften? I guess not -- don't know what that stuff is. It's kind of hydrated. Practically like oats. Ycccck.

And so .... the machine seems fixed. And I'm thinking now that hydrated "sand" is maybe the backing to decaying plastic-backed rugs.

What did I do prior to finding the fix?

I took the circuit board out again as described by so many above with such luck. I didn't note very much before and want to set it down here for the record. I encountered many, many broken plastic clips, some sitting on the wires, some in the circuit board itself. The whole white plastic housing rattled on its clips even though those three large ones weren't visibly broken. When I replaced it I fixed that back on with duck tape too.

Pry the three large white tabs holding the white housing box for the circuit board up with a thin screwdriver, a little bit on one side, then the other, back to the first side. Two people might help but would need to be very light-fingered.

There are plastic clips holding the circuit board to the white box. Most of mine are broken (the machine is 10 years old now). Two thin screwdrivers are needed to pry the tabback and then with the other screwdriver, gently press the board up. This must happen back and forth at a couple spots (without touching any solders obviously).

The backs of all my solders looked perfect.

Two of the tops of my solders looked a little dark in color.

Neither of the switches looked corroded.

I resoldered all the contact strips. Some looked fine but when I went to remelt the solder, I discovered there just wasn't any there at all, so I added a touch more.

I sprayed all the contact strips with electronic cleaner before soldering ; don't know if that was a mistake.

Almost all the clips that hold the wiring housings in place are snapped off just from time and the vibration of the machine itself. It's possible a new board housing is in order.

I think that's all I wanted to remember for next time. I had some vaseline ready but decided it wasn't necessary. Given how tough it was to slip on the cracky plastic wire housings, I'm thinking that might help the clips go on more smoothly on old machines. OTOH with no exterior plastic clips left to hold the wire harnesses in place, making that too smooth a contact might allow it to wriggle free easier.

After I fit it all back in place I was relieved that the machine turned on just fine, only with the same characteristic noisy sound and non-rotation of the drum - another symptom that I forgot to mention (signifying, as it turns out, that plugged drain). Immediately after starting up again the Sud code got thrown again so that's when (duh) I started to google the other codes.

This thread is a wonderful repository!

In sum:

Sud/F02 == plugged drain, remove bottom panel and clean trap
F11/F14/door lock == bad circuit contacts, resolder, clean contacts, etc.

Here is a link that might be useful: Sud/F02 code fix


 o
RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

Hello,
Would someone please send me a photo of the soap/bleach drawer of your machine? A tenant took it out and mixed up all the pieces, and I have no idea how to put it back together...

Thank you!

dogcatlady@yahoo.com

Ann


 o
RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

Thanks for the info, all, especially Notorious. I did the solder thing today, and ordered two new Omron's from Digikey after swapping the badly burned relay for the pristine one, as mentioned previously. I figure I'll have them handy for when the problem recurs, or I have a lazy afternoon that needs a short project to fill it.

Last month I replaced the drain pump, which addressed a number off issues (suds code, etc.). Cleaned the trap as well -- and if you've had your machine a few years and haven't cleaned it, you probably should!

These machines aren't perfect, and the faults are exactly where a trained reliability engineer would expect to see them -- connectors (especially unprotected connectors in a high-vibration, damp environment), relays (especially relays driving an inductive load, at a decent fraction of their design load), and motors/pumps and so forth (moving parts). However, I've had mine over a dozen years now, and at one time we had nine people in this house, so it's done 10,000 loads at least. I'm sure it's past the design life and any reasonable working-cycle life, and yet I can keep it going myself for a few bucks a time or two per year. Nothing is perfect.....

Just today, since the repair, it's on load 5, and going strong. We'll see for how much longer.....

Thanks again!


 o
RE: Kenmore HE4T F/L or F/11 or F/DL error codes

We have a well and every time our electric goes out and our water doesn't work, the washer has code F/H. Is there any way to fix this without calling a repairman?


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