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Persil better work!

Posted by houserookie (My Page) on
Thu, Jul 29, 10 at 16:23

I use CS, like it, but it does make my whites gray. After reading a boat load of posts, I've decided to double the amount to 2 scoops per load because of the water here. I will use CS on darks.

I'm buying Persil for the whites, and it better work! With a 3 month old, a 2.5 y/o, and a DH, we have lots of dingy whites clothes and grayed white socks going around.

I'm getting the 75 load Persil Universal Powder. I'm assuming it will work well on my FL.

I'm still not clear as to how much to use on large loads of 4 cuft or larger. Does anybody know?

I'm really hoping Persil will be it.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Persil better work!

I LOVE Persil. I just wish it didn't have the optical brighteners in it.


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RE: Persil better work!

I have a 4.3 cf and I started with 3 TBLS which wasn't enough. It left my towels scratchy and stiff. I upped it to 7-8 TBLS and it's the perfect amount for me. That's still less than the package calls for (10 TBLS) for the smaller european machines.

BTW, I love it and the smell :-)


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RE: Persil better work!

jetcity - So you think 10 TBLS are too much?


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RE: Persil better work!

Well, I didn't try 10. I felt like going from 3 to 8 was a lot! lol Plus, it's just me and hubby so I felt like 8 got the job done. If I had kids though, I probably would have used 10.


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RE: Persil better work!

I use around 1/2 of a dry measuring cup in my 4.00 washer.

Around 1/4 in my 1.75 size washer.

Plus minus tiny bit, depends on load and dirtiness.

Have hard water.


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RE: Persil better work!

Your water hardness will be the determining factor on how much to use. The back of the box gives you recommendation in milliliters. 1 TBSP = 15 ml. The lowest recommended dose on my Persil Megaperls is 45 ml, or 3 TBSP, for soft water and light soiling. I use 1-1.5 TBSP for small loads and 2-3 TBSP for full loads in my 4.0 cuft machine. I have softened water.


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RE: Persil better work!

If you have hard water and your whites are dingy, I would go with the 10 tablespoons on your large front loader. Also, make sure that you use the hottest water availible and that is safe to use on your clothes, and max out the wash cycle time. It may take a few washers to get them back white again so do not be discouraged if they are not snow white after the first wash. I have very hard water here, and I use Persil in my 3.7cu ft machine. I think I use 4-6 tablespoons on moderate dirty whites. They all look brand new, even the white socks I wear outside on the patio, or the ones soiled from doing yard work..aka, dirt and grass stains. I do not use anything else with the persil except fabric softener and I use extra rinse on my machine. No matter what detergent I use, I never had dingy whites, but persil does clean them the best...Tide HE comes in a close second. Persil rinses much cleaner too and is less fragrant is this is an issue for you.


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RE: Persil better work!

If you use Persil, be sure the wash temp is 104 or higher.

Otherwise, for lower temps, you will get better results with Tide or Gain HE powder.

Do NOT underdose detergent. Surfactants work by bonding to oily dirt. You need molecules of surfactant to bond with molecules of oily dirt. If you don't use enough surfactant, you will leave unbonded molecules of oily dirt.

Think about how this works when you wash your hands. If your hands are really greasy, say you wash with your normal one squirt of handsoap; they get cleaner but not clean. You wash again with another squirt of soap. The soap or surfactant molecules have to MATCH the oils to bond with them and pull them away.

Oxygen bleach, which works by reaction, also needs to be in proportion to the stains it is oxidizing. An oxygen molecule reacts with a stain molecule.

Builder or water softeners also work by reaction and need to be in proportion to the hard water minerals. A molecule of builder reacts with a molecule of mineral ion, taking it out of commission. So the more mineral ions in the water, the more builder ions you need to inactivate them. Detergents are formulated with enough builder in the recommended dose to inactivate typical hard water concentrations.

Enzymes do not need to be in proportion to stains, because they do not bond or react with the stain molecules., They work by cutting up their target molecules, then are free to go cut up other molecules. Therefore, they require time to work effectively (at least 5 minutes is usually recommended.)

But in general, just think of matching up molecules of builder with hard water mineral ion molecules, and matching up molecules of surfactants, bleaches, and polymers with molecules of oil, stains, and dirt. That's why you always hear and read instructions on the package to use more detergent if you have hard water or for larger loads (which have more dirt molecules) and more heavily soiled loads.

You could think of surfactants, builders, oxygen bleach, and polymers as MAGNETS, and enzymes as SCISSORS. You need a cleaning magnet to bond with its opposing dirt magnet. Once a magnet is stuck to another, it can't grab any others. The enzymes are scissors that cut (some of) the dirt magnets, so that smaller, less powerful magnets can grab them faster and more easily.

If you use TOO MUCH of any detergent relative to the dirt, you may see more sudsing because the surfactant molecules don't have oil molecules to bond with. There's no harm in this, except 1) it's wasteful, 2) it has environmental impact, and 3) it requires much more rinsing, which is a pain in a low-water HE machine. Also, excess enzymes may eat away at fabric fibers. For example, Henkel's Persil contains cellulase to eat cellulose molecules in cotton and other plant-based fibers. Too much detergent could cause premature holes or thinning of the fabric. The same would be true of protease enzyme (in most detergents) with the protein-based animal fibers like wool and silk.

To whiten dingy whites, use Persil/Tide/Gain powder at the hottest temp the fabric can stand. To me, if they're dingy, they're ready for the trash anyway, so there is nothing to be gained by being gentle to "save" them. On my washer, I'd use "Whitest Whites" to crank up the heat to 138 or so. I'd soak them for awhile, too (with as little agitation as possible). If they are really bad, I might soak them overnight (starting with hot water), then wash again in a hot water cycle.

If possible, line dry them in the sun for further whitening.

If they still look dingy after that treatment -- and they might -- I resort to Clorox. Clorox really blows away oxygen bleach in cleaning/whitening/brightening. I've saved items with Clorox.

If you want whites (and light and most medium colors) to look their best, you MUST use OBs. Period. OBs make the whites and light/medium colored dyes "pop." Even bright colors pop more. The difference is dramatic.

Here's my example. I have these white Champion tank tops that I have worn hundreds of times over the last 5-7 years. The sun is hot here in SoCal, so white is nice and cool, but they get very dirty while I'm hiking, camping, cleaning, gardening, working out in them, etc. I pretreat greasy stains with Shout and soak them in Kirkland Free & Clear (no OBs) and OxiClean. But after 5-7 years of this, they looked dingy, from soils and stains not being 100% removed. So I soaked them in VERY HOT water (heated to 160 or so in microwave) and a more concentrated OxiClean solution, left overnight. Still they looked dingy. Then, inspired by the book "Home Comforts," I broke out the Clorox chlorine bleach. Soaked them briefly, maybe 30 minutes? Rinsed and hung in the sun for a day. AND WOW. They looked BRAND NEW. There was no perceivable damage to the fabric, which contains spandex, by this treatment.


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RE: Persil better work!

After reading andersons comments above I was compelled to search for information on how bleach works. Who knew?? Stains do not really disappear they just change so you can't see them. Fascinating (to me) ;)

An oxidizing bleach works by breaking the chemical bonds of a chromophore (part of a molecule that has color). This changes the molecule so that it either has no color or else reflects color outside the visible spectrum.

A reducing bleach works by changing the double bonds of a chromophore into single bonds. This alters the optical properties of the molecule, making it colorless.

In addition to chemicals, energy can disrupt chemical bonds to bleach out color. For example, the high energy photons in sunlight (e.g., ultraviolet rays) can disrupt the bonds in chromophores to decolorize them.

Oxygen bleach "removes" odor in much the same way.

The hydrogen peroxide that is released reacts with stain molecules and changes their structure. This makes them absorb light differently, rendering colored stains colorless. Note that this does mean the stains are actually gone; you just can't see them. Stink molecules are like stains. If you change their shape, the chemoreceptors in your nose may be unable to detect them.

I didn't find any information on bleach having to be in proportion to the stains it is oxidizing. Where did you read this?


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RE: Persil better work!

A great tip about using Clorox is that using an equal amount of baking soda produces a chemical reaction which gives the same whitening power as the double amount of Clorox (the amount recommended on the bottle).

For example, if you were going to use 1 c. of Clorox in a load of laundry, you could use only 1/2 c. if you also used 1/2 c. of baking soda, and get the same result.

I get great whitening results when washing white towels when I use Tide HE and OxyClean in true hot water (courtesy of my washer's internal water cleaner). I also usually use some baking soda (about 1/2 cup) for softening and freshness. I don't need Clorox for that laundry.

When I wash my husband's and sons' grungy white socks, undies, and T-shirts, I do need some Clorox and baking soda, as mentioned above. The Clorox gets them really white, and the baking soda gives them a fresh clean scent and softness. No fabric softener is needed when I use baking soda in the wash.


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RE: Persil better work!

How does baking soda soften laundry when used in the wash?


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RE: Persil better work!

All this info is interesting, using oxygen bleach and chlorine bleach to whiten white. I gave up on all that when I got my front loader years ago. I just use hot water, anywhere from 130-153 degree's and a quality name brand detergent. Also if you overdoes detergent and do not rinse it out properly, your whites will turn dingy too. I always use extra rinse on my clothes to remove all traces of soap. BTW my water is hard as a rock where I live too


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RE: Persil better work!

Ingredients list according to Henkel.com and PG.com:

Persil Universal Megaperls:

  • ZEOLITE
  • SODIUM CARBONATE PEROXIDE
  • SODIUM DODECYLBENZENESULFONATE
  • TAED
  • AQUA (WATER)
  • SODIUM LAURYL SULFATE
  • SODIUM CARBONATE
  • C12-18 FATTY ALCOHOL 7 EO
  • SODIUM SULFATE
  • SODIUM CITRATE
  • SODIUM ACRYLIC ACID/MA COPOLYMER
  • CELLULOSE GUM
  • SULFONATED POLYETHYLENE TEREPHTHALATE
  • PEG-80
  • ZEA MAYS (CORN) STARCH
  • TETRASODIUM ETIDRONATE
  • SODIUM SOAP C16-18
  • PERFUME
  • CORN FLOUR
  • HEPTASODIUM DTPMP
  • PARAFFIN
  • SODIUM CHLORIDE
  • C12-18 FATTY ALCOHOL 5 EO
  • SODIUM HYDROXIDE
  • OPTICAL BRIGHTNER
  • SODIUM GLYCOLATE
  • PEG-14M
  • COLORANT
  • PROTEASE
  • HEXYL CINNAMAL
  • LINALOOL
  • BENZYL SALICYLATE
  • LIPASE
  • AMYLASE
  • CELLULASE
  • MANNANASE

Persil Megaperls Color:

  • ZEOLITE
  • SODIUM DODECYLBENZENESULFONATE
  • AQUA (WATER)
  • SODIUM LAURYL SULFATE
  • SODIUM CITRATE
  • C12-18 FATTY ALCOHOL 7 EO
  • CITRIC ACID
  • SODIUM BICARBONATE
  • SODIUM CARBONATE
  • SODIUM SULFATE
  • SODIUM ACRYLIC ACID/MA COPOLYMER
  • SULFONATED POLYETHYLENE TEREPHTHALATE
  • PEG-80
  • CELLULOSE GUM
  • TETRASODIUM ETIDRONATE
  • ZEA MAYS (CORN) STARCH
  • SODIUM SOAP C16-18
  • PERFUME
  • CORN FLOUR
  • SODIUM HYDROXIDE
  • SODIUM CHLORIDE
  • VINYLPYRROLIDONE/VINYLIMIDAZOLE COPOLYMER
  • PVP
  • SODIUM GLYCOLATE
  • HYDRATED SILICA
  • PEG-14M
  • PROTEASE
  • HEXYL CINNAMAL
  • LINALOOL
  • BENZYL SALICYLATE
  • AMYLASE
  • CELLULASE
  • MANNANASE
  • LIPASE
  • COLORANT

Persil Megaperls Sensitive:

  • ZEOLITE
  • SODIUM CARBONATE PEROXIDE
  • SODIUM BICARBONATE
  • SODIUM DODECYLBENZENESULFONATE
  • AQUA (WATER)
  • TAED
  • SODIUM LAURYL SULFATE
  • C12-18 FATTY ALCOHOL 7 EO
  • SODIUM SULFATE
  • SODIUM CARBONATE
  • SODIUM CITRATE
  • SODIUM ACRYLIC ACID/MA COPOLYMER
  • CELLULOSE GUM
  • PEG-80
  • ZEA MAYS (CORN) STARCH
  • TETRASODIUM ETIDRONATE
  • SODIUM SOAP C12-18
  • SODIUM SOAP C16-18
  • PARAFFIN
  • CORN FLOUR
  • C12-18 FATTY ALCOHOL 5 EO
  • PERFUME
  • SODIUM CHLORIDE
  • SULFONATED POLYETHYLENE TEREPHTHALATE
  • SODIUM HYDROXIDE
  • OPTICAL BRIGHTNER
  • SODIUM GLYCOLATE
  • PEG-14M
  • COLORANT
  • PROTEASE
  • AMYLASE
  • CELLULASE

Tide HE Powder:

  • SODIUM ALUMINOSILICATE
  • SODIUM SULFATE
  • SODIUM CARBONATE
  • LINEAR ALKYLBENEZENE SULFONATE
  • NONANOYLOXYBENZENESULFONATE
  • ALKYL SULFATE
  • SODIUM PERCARBONATE
  • SODIUM POLYACRYLATE
  • POLYETHYLENE GLYCOL 4000
  • FRAGRANCE
  • DTPA
  • DISODIUM DIAMINOSTILBENE DISULFONATE
  • PALMITIC ACID
  • PROTEASE
  • SILICONE
  • MODIFIED STARCH
Those who are more familiar with chemistry may be able to provide some insight into what functions are performed by these various ingredients. What really stands out here is how many more ingredients are in the different Megaperls formulations compared to Tide HE, not the least of which is 5 enzymes to Tide's single enzyme.


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RE: Persil better work!

Here are additional ingredients for the Terra-Activ "green" product per Henkel.com:

Terra Activ Wash:

  • AQUA (WATER)
  • C12-18 FATTY ALCOHOL 7 EO
  • SODIUM SOAP C12-18
  • SODIUM LAURETH SULFATE
  • GLYCERIN
  • LAURYL GLUCOSIDE
  • ALCOHOL
  • SODIUM CITRATE
  • SODIUM METABORATE
  • PERFUME
  • PROPYLENE GLYCOL
  • HEPTASODIUM DTPMP
  • SORBITOL
  • ACRYLPOLYMER MIT C16-18-ALKYLETHER
  • LINALOOL
  • OPTICAL BRIGHTNER
  • HEXYL CINNAMAL
  • PROTEASE
  • AMYLASE
  • CELLULASE
  • MANNANASE
  • COLORANT

Terra Activ Bunt (Color) Wash:

  • AQUA (WATER)
  • C12-18 FATTY ALCOHOL 7 EO
  • SODIUM SOAP C12-18
  • SODIUM LAURETH SULFATE
  • GLYCERIN
  • LAURYL GLUCOSIDE
  • ALCOHOL
  • SODIUM CITRATE
  • SODIUM METABORATE
  • PERFUME
  • PROPYLENE GLYCOL
  • HEPTASODIUM DTPMP
  • SORBITOL
  • ACRYLPOLYMER MIT C16-18-ALKYLETHER
  • LINALOOL
  • HEXYL CINNAMAL
  • PROTEASE
  • AMYLASE
  • CELLULASE
  • COLORANT
  • MANNANASE


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