are you adding anything else?
I find when I add washing soda, or oxyclean to a load I will have that kind of sudsing with most of the detergents I've tried even though if I just use the detergent alone, I have no sudsing.

Your drum barely looks half full? How much are you using?

Weird, I have no issues at all. I usually use to line 1 for a half full drum. When closer to 3/4 full I add about 1.5.

Sodium percarbonate will soften the water but I still don't have suds to that degree.

Say it isn't so?? I'd be lost now without Greenworks.

PS. Your rinse level looks much higher than mine? I know my previous Frigidaire had higher water levels and I always had suds issues. Now with the Miele set to factory settings - no problems.

I have my W4842 set to Maximum Water level and water+/Extra Rinse. I think the tiny water rinse level (default) is insanely low. I love higher rinse levels.

The load in this picture, is hard to see...dark towels. In this load, with all the suds is 2 large bath towels, 2 hand towels, 8 wash cloths and 2-3 kitchen towels. So a nice sized load.

I've tried with load much larger and much smaller. Line 1 on the cap, Line 2, 1/2 of line 1....crazy sudsing with rinsing. So sad, since Green Works is almost my favourite detergent.

Wow larsi, that is a lot of suds especially for a 2nd rinse. I use Green Works for some of my loads (maybe one or two loads a week) and have no sudsing whatsoever. I have gotten into the habit of checking several times during the cycle.

It's also weird that you have this problem now after several months (I'm assuming) of using Green Works regularly without any issues. Have you changed anything in how you do your laundry? Any new additives, softener? New shower/bath products that you use that could have deposited on the towels? Is it a new bottle of detergent (change in formula or a defective batch)?

Larsi, another thought that occurred to me. Could there be something wrong with your machine? E.g. the programming got messed up and it no longer does a fast spin between the wash and rinse portions of the cycle or between the rinses?

izeve, interesting point. I think that was the issue with my previous Frigidaire FL. I always struggled with suds on the glass at the end. Since getting my Miele which does do a fast spin between wash and rinse I have not had any problems.

Larsi, does something you enabled disable that function?

It doesn't make sense it would all the sudden be different. There has to be a reason.

I have been using it to line level 1 and haven't had any sudsing issues.

MRB

My W4842 does a fast spin between rinses. I also thought that could be a problem, so sat there like the Village Idiot and watched almost the entire hour wash cycle :-o Normal, Wrinkle Free, Custom....fast, quick spin between rinses!

I currently have Vaska Herbatergent, Tide with a touch of Downy he, Persil Color Gel and Green Works. It's just the Green Works that is sudsing so horribly!! It is a newer bottle, but not brand new. It is about 60% full.

So bummed, as I LOVE Green Works. Luckily I also love my Persil, Vaska and Tide with Downy he..so I'll just be using them. Maybe if I see a small bottle of Green Works on sale or something, I'll just buy it, to see if the bottle I had was a bad batch or something!

Thanks for all the help!!!

@ larsi

What about all the previous times you've used Green Works. You didn't have suds?

Sstava....Green Works has always made more suds than my Persil, or Tide he or Vaska, but the last few weeks, it just seems to be worse. It's almost like it's built up in everything I have been washing, and now each wash just gets worse. I even did 2 addt'l. Quick Rinse cycles with the load of towels washed in Green Works (that were rinsed 3x during the wash & rinse cycle)...and they suds up like crazy during the Quick rinse cycles.

Maybe since the bottle says for standard and he machines...they changed something? Horrible suds!!

@ larsi

This really sucks, I'm sorry you're having this experience. In my opinion, if a detergent says to use less for HE then it's not a true HE detergent. If a detergent is truly HE and low sudsing, the dosage should be the same for all machines. I don't have any HE detergents that suggest using different amounts for front loaders. However, Green Works does carry the HE label. I wonder if detergent has to meet any minimum standards in order to carry the HE logo, or if it's just a matter of paying a licensing fee and there is no testing involved.

Larsi, have you noticed any of your other detergents behaving strangely lately? The reason I ask is that many municipal water supplies combine water from multiple sources, so your water quality can vary throughout the year. For example, here in Arizona our hardness varies wildly from 15-20 grains to over 35 grains. Water seems to be harder in the summer than in the winter.

What is of particular interest to me is that the problem seems to be getting worse. If that's the case, the symptom would point to a build-up issue. How are your clothes and towels feeling after rinsing? Are they soft as before, or are you noticing any harshness to the fibers? Try rinsing without fabric softener and compare your Green Works loads to other loads where you aren't seeing the sudsing.

larsi,

Does the bottle have any coding on it?
Just thinking out loud here.... maybe you could email or call Greenworks and see if you may have gotten a bad batch.

Personally I don't have any suds issues using my GE Harmony.
Uses more water initially, but one rinse.
Good luck!

Thanks Sstava and Bookert. Yeah, Green Works does talk about reducing the amount if using a front loader, he machine. Sstava, this always tells me that the detergent is not "truly he". When I use my Tide with a Touch of Downy, even if I fill the cap to Line 3...I see nowhere near the amount of suds during rinses, as I am seeing with Green Works.

I never thought that maybe we are pulling water from both Los Angeles County and Ventura County where I live. If I do not use fabric softener...then the suds are awful, and towels and sheets feel noticeably scratchier and harder.

This has really bummed me out!!

@ larsi

Here is what my laundry looks like during a 2nd rinse. This was after using one capful of Vaska and Vaska fabric softener...

{{!gwi}}

Talk about airing our dirty laundry... LOL

@larsi,

At first topic glance I thought you were dying here, but your sudsing is minimal, and your Miele will intercede and enter into a special sudsing cycle should the suds become a problem. Your photograph exhibits suds that are nowhere near your machine even remotely entering that special cycle. I have had ours enter it once, and the screen readout tells what you've done. Have you cleaned your machine with Miele Descaler (100% citric acid) lately? Miele techs recommend doing this to also remove detergent buildup on those parts of the washer not visible to the eye.

@sshrivastava & larsi, all these pictures make me jealous about your water levels ;-) Even with Water Plus in my LG machine I never have water level reaching the glass on the door.....

Wow...Sstava. That is some seriously clear rinse water. I do not know if mine has ever been that clear...regardless if I use Tide he, Persil, Vaska and especially not with Green Works.

Yes, I descale Fahrenheit. Thanks though.

"If a detergent is truly HE and low sudsing, the dosage should be the same for all machines. I don't have any HE detergents that suggest using different amounts for front loaders." I can see that a non-HE machine would need a larger dosage of an HE detergent, because there's more water to condition. Maybe your other HE detergents don't say this because they're also available in non-HE formulations, and they assume you wouldn't buy the HE version for a non-HE machine. Green Works has one version "[f]ormulated for both standard and high-efficiency (HE) washers."

Suburbanmd...

Yes, Green Works says it is formulated for both standard and HE machines. The directions on the bottle of Green Works though, also talks about reducing the amount used, if the detergent is going into an HE machne.

@ suburbanmd

But when you reduce detergent dose, you are also reducing the amount of surfactants and other cleaning agents. According to the SDA, the amount of detergent is dictated by the amount of laundry and soil level, not by the volume of water. The argument is that you need a certain amount of cleaning and soil suspension agents to clean a certain amount of soil from your laundry. The amount of soil that needs cleaning is the same whether it's sitting in 50 gallons of water or 5. That's why Tide HE and almost every brand of HE detergent in my cupboards dose the same regardless of machine type.

That's one side of the debate, anyway.

Doing a load now, using Tide liquid HE. This is a large load...2 pairs of jeans, maybe 6 or 7 t-shirts, one button down flannel shirt 4-5 pairs of underwear and 2-3 pairs of socks. The dosage was to the Maximum, Line 3 on the cap of Tide HE.

This is during the 2nd Rinse after washing with Tide HE, before the 3rd Rinse (Sensitive Option) and Fabric Softener will be dispensed. Huge difference, compared to Green Works (see 1st picture).

That still doesn't look like a large load to me? The drum is maybe half full?

We can hope that Clorox isn't selling a non-HE formulation, and telling us to use less in an HE machine. Rather they're presumably selling an HE formulation, or maybe something in the middle. That would mean a higher ratio of cleaning ingredients to water conditioning ingredients, compared to non-HE detergents. If you use it in a machine containing more water, you'll need more water conditioning ingredients, hence more of the product. "More for non-HE machines" is logically the same as "less for HE machines", but the latter sounds better on the label.

I have Sears Free powder at home, and an as-yet-unopened box of Whole Foods 365 unscented powder. Both have the official HE symbol, and both recommend a somewhat higher dosage for non-HE machines (though not 2X or 3X as much, as strict application of my argument would dictate).

The American Cleaning Institute's (formerly the SDA) statement is a simplification.

Gah! Suds galore here!

I'm doing a load of towels right now on Delicate in my W4842, used 45ml (soft water dose) of Persil Sensitive megaperls + capful of Calgon liquid water softener (we have "medium" hardness) and my rinse is full of suds. Second rinse is sudsy, too.

I would post a photo if I knew how, but basically the first rinse looks like @larsi's photo at the very top.

There is no way I can use the recommended dose of Persil for towels. Thought it might remove whatever is making my towels scratchy since having a FL washer.

@ larsi

My friend, that is not a full load! Compare your photo to mine and see how much more laundry I have in my drum. That is a full load! Yours would rate as a medium load in my house, for which I would use only halfway up to line 1 on my Tide HE cap. With your harder water I would probably say go all the way up to line 1, maybe a little higher, but certainly not line 2 or line 3. I think you may be using too much detergent.

@ larsi

I have to agree with sshrivastava. The loads you are describing and showing in the pictures would count as small to medium in my book. I would not use more than 2/3 to the first from the bottom line of Green Works for that size load. To me a full load in my machine is a load that will fill the drum loosely when dry and will compact to half to 2/3 of the drum when wet.

If you have been overdosing on detergent for a while, the sudsing you are seeing now may be the result of detergent build up.

And another thought - I've noticed that natural cleaners made by large manufacturers are more sudsy and more difficult to rinse than both conventional equivalents and green boutique products. I have switched to a natural face cleaner and shampoo recently (both made by large companies that make conventional products) and certainly noticed that they suds up a ton and I have to spend a lot more time and use a lot more water to rinse my face and hair. Maybe same is true for natural laundry detergents made by large, commercial companies??? For comparison, I use Vaska and used to use shampoo etc. made by small boutique green companies and did not have any sudsing or rinsing issues.

I've tried many, many times filling the cap of Green Works to only half way to Line 1 (see my earlier replies to this post). Still lots of suds. Of course more sudsing when rinsing, if I go to line 1 or line 2. I cannot imagine going to line 3.

The last 4-5 loads I have washed (all using Normal with Sensitive Option on my W4842) have been with Persil Color Gel, Tide he liquid or Gain he liquid...and the 2nd rinse basically is clear water & no suds.

I LOVE the smell and ingredients of Green Works, but for some reason, I have to take a break. Really makes me sad, because I almost liked it more than Persil.

@ izeve

This is why I don't think Green Works is a true HE detergent despite carrying the label. The recommendation to use less in a FL machine obviously has to do with sudsing. That would mean it's not truly a low sudsing formulation, right? I bet they like to keep a certain level of sudsing in their products so that users of top loaders can see a little bit of suds. Some people just don't think their clothes are getting clean if they don't see suds, but the experience is quite the opposite with FL machines. These big companies are so afraid of losing any customers that they try to please everyone with their HE products by claiming they are for top loaders too.

I have used Green Works sparingly, and only on more soiled dark loads where Vaska would not be very effective. I'll keep an eye on the sudsing and post a photo if I get a chance.

"Some people just don't think their clothes are getting clean if they don't see suds,...."

This is very true. Back in the sixties in my sophomore marketing class they had a honcho from P&G address the class. (There was a big P&G plant not far away.) One of the examples he used was "suds sells". He explained that suds had nothing to do with the cleaning ability of their products but that consumers judged cleaning ability by the amount of suds produced. So, they added them. And advertised them.

@asolo, this still holds true today. Have you seen the adds for Samsung PowerFoam recently? A front loading washing machine specifically DESIGNED to create suds from a low sudsing HE detergent!

asolo is right about the suds & marketing.

The Samsung "Eco Bubble" machines are the most ridiculous things I've ever seen. Honestly, Samsung did nothing more than create a useless feature to get the attention of people who like to see suds. As consumers we spend years trying to find a perfect, low sudsing detergent that cleans well. Then comes Samsung telling us that we actually want suds, and lots of them... I don't think so!

I'd like to see how Eco Bubble works when the user, not understanding anything about their front loader, dumps in a scoop of non-HE detergent to save a couple of bucks. Wow, look at all the suds. What an amazing machine!