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What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

Posted by texaslynn (My Page) on
Wed, May 2, 12 at 16:24

I'm very frustrated with my Fisher Paykel ecoboost (sp?) washing machine. I discovered a year ago that I have never been getting a hot water wash, even when I put it on "hot water". When I accidentally noticed a problem with wash temperature, I called a repair man and he told me all about the governmental regulations and the temperature control thing and there was nothing he could do to fix it. So with the issue of my tankless heater system and this temperature control stupid thing, I have no hot water wash. (I also have the smelly washer issue, which I won't even go into here).

Can someone recommend a washer that doesn't have that control thing on it (and can someone tell me why the government doesn't want me to wash with hot water? Is there nothing more pressing out in the world to attend to than worrying about how people are washing their clothes?). I don't really care about savings of any sort - I just want to be able to wash a load with hot water when I need it.

Thank you.......


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

the samsung 520 will give a hot wash....as long as you (at least on my own 520) DON'T use Normal, Permapress, or Bedding cycles. Heavy Duty, Sanitary, Quick Wash, will give hot water. If you do a pre-wash, that part of the cycle is cold.

If you choose the Stain Away cycle, the water starts out cool and then warms up to HOT over a period of time. Took me months to figure THAT one out!!


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

TexasLynn,

There ARE ways to get a full fill hot wash on your machine. One method involves some "manual" button-pushing for each load that's run, the other method is more automatic. I can outline the procedures if you provide the specific model number of your unit (it's on a tag on back on the control console, probably a little over from the left side). GWL11, perhaps?

Actually, the hot temp selection is probably a generous 140F (essentially full tap-hot, of course the machine can't heat the water higher than what's coming in the hot faucet supply) ... or it may be controlled to 120F (depends on the model). However, the machine has F&P's "Eco Active" wash process which is different than traditional agitator machines. On all selections except Perm Press, it fills at start of the cycle with only a minimal amount of water at the selected temperature ... enough to saturate the load and then a couple gallons more to dissolve the detergent and prime the pump to make a concentrated solution which is then recirculated/showered over the load for about 5 mins while the basket rotates at 25 RPM. After that "pretreatment" period, it fills with controlled-COLD water for the agitated wash (minimum of approx 68F but also depends on your tap cold water supply, the machine of course can't cool the water lower than what's coming in from the cold faucet). This is the ECO part of the machine's design. The resulting agitated wash water is much cooler than the initial 140F pretreatment phase.

If you perhaps aren't aware (and some F&P users don't realize this), the machine has FIVE wash water temp selections:
Cold
Warm/Cold (both Cold and Warm lights on)
Warm
Warm/Hot (both Warm and Hot lights on)
Hot

Warm/Cold is approx half-way between Cold and Warm.

Warm/Hot is approx half-way between Warm and Hot.

I messaged with someone a while ago who was of the misunderstanding that Warm/Cold refers specifically to a Warm wash with Cold rinse (and presumably believing that Warm would be Warm wash and Warm rinse) ... and that Warm/Hot refers to a Warm wash with Hot rinse. That is not the case. The selected temp is only for the wash temp. Rinses are always cold.


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

Speed Queen washers do not have ATC (automatic temperature control).

The HOT is "tap hot," meaning it simply opens up the hot water valve and fills at whatever temperature your water heater provides.

The WARM setting is a fixed mixture of hot and cold water controlled by the fixed orifice sizes of the respective valves. The hot valve has a smaller orifice, thus leading to a less than 50/50 mix of hot and cold water. Some people drill out the hot valve orifice to match the cold orifice for a higher temperature WARM wash.

COLD is just the cold water tap.

Low tech. Easy to understand. Easy to modify.


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

Thanks for that informative post, dadoes. I am one FL owner who did NOT know apparently after all these years about wash temperature vs always cold rinses.


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

oh for heavens sakes, Sparking Water, the previous poster was SPEAKING ABOUT THE F & P WASHER! Other washers use warm rinses. all u have to do is read the manual that comes with any particular model to see that is the case. The F & P manual indicates that all rinses are cold and that there are 5 WASH temps available--an unusual circumstance.


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additional info to my previous post

I didn't mean other washers ONLY use warm rinse--I mean that warm rinses are available, as indicated by the control labeling.


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

Dave, warm rinses vary per the individual machine design. Some are temp-controlled such that a warm rinse is at a lower target temp than a warm wash. A frontloader that has multiple rinses, only the final rinse may be warm. A toploader may run an agitated cold rinse, with the warm part being a spray during the final spin.


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

"I just want to be able to wash a load with hot water when I need it."

Well, that's rather the nut for everyone these days....and a consistent source of confusion on these forums.

Problem #1: Customers typically don't know what "hot" is. They never have. Whatever comes out of the "hot" spigot at home is "hot". Whatever that becomes in-use in the washer after the mass of clothes and metal bleeds some heat away is never known.

Problem #2: Manufacturers of today's washers don't like to disclose what they, themselves, mean by "hot", "warm", or "cold" settings on their own machines. Obtaining this basic information from them for whatever machine you may be considering can be difficult and annoying. The settings on the buttons or dials of the machines and their own manuals still say "hot", "warm", and "cold".....but they don't tell you what those words mean. What you will find is that they mean whatever the mfgr says they mean....if you can get them to tell you. There have been many reports here and elsewhere of buyers learning too late that the mfgr of their thousand-dollar machine regards 100-105F to be "hot".

I can suggest this: Get an FL with a built-in heater that is utilized on at least three cycles. Find out what the cycles are and what the temperatures are. You should have at least one "sanitary" cycle that boosts to 160F range. You should have at least two other cycles that boost to 125-130F range.

I have an FL that does that. I also work regularly with a conventional Maytag TL at another location. "Hot" on that machine in-use is about 110-115F maximum with the hot water heater set on 130F. (no ATC....temp controlled only by hot/cold spigot adjustment. Machine controls hot/cold/mixed and that's it.) That would be a typical example of heat-loss for any conventional machine....like the Speed Queen, for example. If you want hotter than that, you'll need a low fill-volume HE machine with a built-in heater and cycles that use it.


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

Wouldn't any machine that has a sanitary cycle work? Those cycles try to reach temps above 150 (I think). That's pretty hot! I know when I've used the sanitary cycle in my Duet, just touching the outside of the machine feels like a dishwasher it's so warm from the hot water


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

Mark40511- Sanitary cycles vary and a lot of machines only use the heater on the sanitary cycle. Sanitary temps vary by manufacturer. It only works if temps remain 140 or above for a minimum of 10 minutes and some heaters turn off once Target temp is reached. The CDC mandates 205 for total kill.


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

Model GWL11 (Series 6) and GWL15 & above (Series 7)

ATC.

Hot = 140F (60C) (recommended household hot supply 150F - maximum to insure plastic parts of inlet valves are not damaged)
Warm/Hot = 122F (50C)
Warm = 104F (40C)
Warm/Cold = 95F (35C)
Cold Plus (controlled cold) = 68F (20C)
Tap Cold (programmable option)

An automatic full-fill hot wash can be programmed thusly:
1. Turn machine Power on.
2. Press and hold Favorite until it beeps and the light flashes.
3. Select Perm Press cycle.
4. Select Hot wash temp.
5. Press Favorite to save the programming.

A HOT wash can then be run whenever desired by selecting the saved Favorite, adjust the water level and other options as desired. The programming doesn't need to be repeated once it's done, unless one wants to change the saved Favorite. Perm Press does not run the Eco Active wash function, so the machine will fill directly to the agitated "deep" wash with Hot water. Note that since it runs off the Perm Press cycle, the final spin may be at low speed (300 RPM) instead of high (1000 RPM, Regular & Heavy cycles). However, a simple workaround is to start on Favorite, select a manual water level, then pause (or Power Off if necessary) when fill to the selected water level is finished, change the selection to Regular or Heavy with the same manual-selected water level and press Start to resume. Once filled to the selected level, the machine won't fill further and will skip the Eco Active phase, going directly on into the agitated wash.

Or, the load can be re-spun after-the-fact on Regular or Heavy ... select either cycle, press Advance to the Final Spin period, and Start.

There is a programming option to change the Perm Press final spin to medium speed (700 RPM) instead of the default slow.


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

Umm....how many people you know keep their water heaters at 150F? I think that's an unreasonable recommendation.


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

not only unreasonable but downright dangerous, especially if you have kids. 150F water poses definite scalding risk.


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

150 is crazy! Even if set at 150 there is the matter of the heater refilling as water is used. So, in order to meet that standard one would be expected to leave ample time for the water heater to heat to max before doing laundry?


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

Pay attention. READ what I wrote.

F&P recommends a maximum household water heater setting of no more than 150F.

Obviously, since the machine does not have onboard water heating, the maximum input the machine will generate, up to 140F as moderated by ATC, is limited by the household water heater setting, along with thermal losses on the pipe run and the machine and load mass.

If the household water heater is set at 120F (which is common), then BOTH the Hot/Warm and Hot temps will max-out at 120F incoming flow.

Thus, one should reasonably set the water heater higher than 120F to get more than 120F as allowed by the machine's hot target-point of 140F.

Or not ... as is one's personal choice in the matter.

I'm attempting to explain what the machine can do for benefit of the OP, who stated a complaint about it.

My bad, apparently.


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

"Pay attention. READ what I wrote."

Wow. Alternatively, the statement:

Hot = 140F (60C) (recommended household hot supply 150F - maximum to insure plastic parts of inlet valves are not damaged)

could have been written:

Hot = 140F (60C) (maximum recommended household hot supply 150F - to insure plastic parts of inlet valves are not damaged)

I would have read the second version correctly the first time.

In any case, it seems there's an arms race of hot water wash temperatures. Except for some special cases, 120-130 degree wash temperature is adequate for bright whites and linens as long as proper loading, water level, and detergent choices are made. Our mothers produced bright whites for years without heat-assisted wash temperatures.

The high heat setting of a typical dryer will bring the clothes to 160-180 degrees for a good portion of the cycle if you're relying on heat alone to somehow sanitize clothes.

It's a little surprising the government is willing to apply Energy Star rating to electric resistance heat-assisted washers, especially any that use 220 volt hookups for extra oomph. It seems to negate the argument for front loaders being green, efficient washers.


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

"Except for some special cases, 120-130 degree wash temperature is adequate..."

Agreed....except that heat losses from clothes, tubs, and piping make that more-or-less impossible to obtain with water-heater set at 120-130. (Variably compromised ATC valve designs make it even less likely. Mfgr's don't like to disclose what their ATC settings actually deliver.) As an example, my mom's conventional Maytag TL maxes out around 110-115 in-the-tub with her water heater set at 125-130. Other TL's would be just like that unless pre-heated. HE low-fill-volume machines have greater heat-loss differential because of the lower volume fill.

Mom's machine cleans just fine. People have been satisfied with such temperatures for generations. However, my own heat-boosted (127F +/- 5) FL machine at another location cleans better -- noticeably better -- with extra 15-degree boost. (Soft water at both locations.)

It's not an "arms race". It's a rational acknowledgement of the state of affairs. For many (most?) folks, getting to 120-130F is not possible without an on-board heat-boost.

As I said previously: "Problem #1: Customers typically don't know what "hot" is. They never have. Whatever comes out of the "hot" spigot at home is "hot". Whatever that becomes in-use in the washer after the mass of clothes and metal bleeds some heat away is never known."


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

I suppose you're making the case for FL machines needing the heat boost to overcome ATC-limited hot water entering the machine, a small(er) quantity of water relative to the mass of the clothes to be washed, and the longer wash cycles allowing heat to bleed off. I can see that being the case.

Our mothers didn't have ATC to overcome. They had top load machines with 16 gallons of water in them and they had 10-15 minute wash cycles (wash portion, not including rinse, spin, etc). Their washers tended to be in the basement, garage, or otherwise relatively close the the water heater. I don't believe today's whites washed in temperature boosted water are washed any cleaner than the whites produced by yesterday's machines. I have a modern example of yesterday's top loading machines and my bright whites are just that.


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

"I suppose you're making the case for FL machines needing the heat boost to overcome ATC-limited hot water entering the machine, a small(er) quantity of water relative to the mass of the clothes to be washed, and the longer wash cycles allowing heat to bleed off. I can see that being the case."

No, I'm not. I'm making the "case" for people being able to know what temperature they're actually getting during the wash regardless of the machine being used. The heat bleeds away very quickly upon contact with pipes, clothes, and the metal of the machine itself....almost nothing to do with length of the wash cycle.

"Our mothers didn't have ATC to overcome."

ATC shouldn't have to be "overcome". It should deliver the temperatures expected....which few do anymore. In any event, my mom's older Maytag doesn't have it. "Hot" is hot-line only; "cold" is cold-line only; "warm" is equal mixture of the two lines. "Warm" and "cold" temps vary with the seasons depending on temperature of incoming supply.

"Their washers tended to be in the basement, garage, or otherwise relatively close the the water heater."

Not true. They were as variable then (talking 50's here) as they are now.

"I don't believe today's whites washed in temperature boosted water are washed any cleaner than the whites produced by yesterday's machines."

Strongly disagree with this. I see the difference every week when I compare results from mom's conventional TL with her lower-temp "hot" setting and my own FL using heat-boosted "hot" cycle. The extra 15-20 degrees makes a difference for me. I think it would for anyone able to compare.

Cut to the chase....my comments were about actual water temperature in the machine during the wash......have you measured your own machine's actual wash temperature during your "hot" cycle? Do you know what your actually getting?


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

There are many factors affecting the comparison of your mothers' results with yours. Wash temperature is only one of them. I'm stating that, beyond a certain temperature in the 115-125 range, the other factors overwhelm wash temperature in producing bright, clean clothes, towels, and linens. There are some special cases where this isn't true, but that's not what we're talking about here.

Without continuing a point-by-point debate, I'll just say your disagreement with the affect of wash cycle length on water temperature without a heater is inconsistent with the laws of thermodynamics.

The bottom line is clean, bright whites are achievable in 120 degree wash water if the machine is able to maintain the temperature throughout the wash cycle (however long) by the mass of larger quantity of water or onboard heating. Obviously, the other factors such as adequate turnover, proper detergent, thorough rinse, etc., must be present as well.

The OP complaint is that ATC is preventing even a tap hot temperature to be reached. We've veered off into whether tap hot can be sufficient. You won't convince me it can't be. I'm sure I won't convince you it can be. You enjoy your clean clothes and I'll enjoy mine.


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

One thing everyone seems to have missed in this discussion is that the OP has a tankless hot water heater. It takes time for it to get hot enough to heat the water to the preset temp. While that is happening, the cold water that is in the pipes and the getting warmer water from the water heater is filling the machine. Additionally, the cycling fill of some FLs won't even trigger the tankless water heater to begin heating. The washer opens the water valve and starts to fill, tumbles the clothes, closes the water valve, tumbles the clothes and the sensors in the drum determine if there is enough water for the load. If not, the water valve is opened again, more tumbling, water valve closes, more tumbling, sensors, and it continues until the sensors have determined that there is enough water in the drum.

So how to get around this? One option is to add a recirc pump to your tankless hot water heater--hot water will be roughly 4 seconds away from practically any water valve. Some are hooked directly to the tankless system, some are run through a very small electric hot water heater that is placed in line with your tankless and it kind of works like a well water holding tank does. The other option is to run the water in a nearby sink or tub on hot until the water coming from the faucet is hot, then turn on the machine. When it fills, it should then fill with hot water since you've already triggered the tankless system and you have run all the cold water through the pipes. You can do this for your dishwasher too.

Hope this helps!


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

I have an electric tankless wholehouse water heater. I've never had a problem getting my F&P washer to do what I want it to do, at the temperature I want ... but I do understand how the machine works. The sequence you describe (filling, tumbling, sensing, then repeating multiple times) does not apply to the OP's machine. It is true that there's only a minimal saturation fill of hot water under "normal" cycle options, so depending on the particulars involved the OP very well may be getting only a tepid fill on the hot setting. However, there is an easy (IMO) workaround for purging the line that I will describe here if the OP comes back and asks. Otherwise, the other full-hot fill workaround that I previously described also largely takes care of it.


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

OP here and I'm very thankful for all of the replies and I've been trying to sort through them and make sense of what might work. (going to have to refer them to The Man, at this stage!)

Just to clarify, when I say I don't have a hot water wash, I mean that I don't even have a WARM water wash. I have stood there with the lid open and my arm in the washing machine to try to figure out what the he..ck is wrong. Whether I put it on Hot wash or Warm wash, warm water does come out initially but then the next gush of water is cold so the final wash temperature is maybe room temperature. Again, I've had my arm in the washing machine so many times at different stages of fill that I'm starting to feel like some kind of weirdo.

(Btw, to mydreamhome, - I have run the hot water in the kitchen to try to get the "hots" going but, to my everlasting frustration, it just doesn't seem to have made any difference. I've done that and then run in the laundry room and stuck my arm in the washing machine and the temperature is mild as baby's salve.)

Somewhat off topic - I love love love the tankless heater system we installed last year. My hubby got tired of the never ceasing complaints from me after a cold 5 minute shower. I now have as much hot water as I want for my shower and don't have to race my kids anymore for the 3 cups of hot water that was previously available. I only wish the new system had somehow solved the "no hot water in the washing machine" issue.

Thanks again to everyone for the suggestions.


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

TexasLynn,

I am quoting here the section from my first reply to you (with a bit of editing) that explains how the machine is engineered to work, that it is working *correctly* per how F&P designed it. It is not a malfunction and your water heater has nothing directly to do with it. Please read this indented paragraph carefully:

The machine has F&P's "Eco Active" wash process which is different than traditional agitator machines. On all selections except Perm Press -- which means it does this process on Heavy, Regular, Delicate, and Woolens -- it fills at start of the cycle with only a minimal amount of water at the selected temperature (whatever that may be) ... enough to saturate the load and then a couple gallons more to dissolve the detergent and prime the pump to make a concentrated solution which is then recirculated/showered over the load for about 5 mins while the basket rotates at 25 RPM. After that "pretreatment" period, it fills with controlled-COLD water for the agitated wash. The resulting agitated wash water is intentionally much cooler than the initial warm or hot water in the pretreatment phase. This is the ECO part of the machine's design.

Try the programming procedure I outlined in the first reply above (Wed, May 2, 12 at 17:32) to get a full-fill hot wash, check if you feel a difference in the temperature of the water in the tub after agitation gets going.

Also, note again that the Perm Press cycle does not run the Eco Active wash function at the start, it fills directly for the agitated wash at the selected temperature, although Perm Press is limited to no higher than Warm temperature under normal circumstances -- you can get a ~104F warm wash on Perm Press without doing any special adjustments. Have you ever run Perm Press and checked the temp, or do you always use Regular?

Perm Press does allow a HOT wash when programmed into the Favorite button as I described.

Further ... a way to purge your hot supply line before starting a load to insure the water is hot as possible from the start is by running the hot water *directly* into the machine via Diagnostic Mode. It may sound like an pain-in-the-rump but is pretty quick and easy once you get familiar with the procedure:

Purging The Hot Water Line--
Do this before loading a batch of clothes. With the machine's power off, press and hold Wash Temp Down, then press Power at the same time. Should get two beeps and the panel comes on. Press Wash Temp Up to turn on the hot water valve. Also press Regular to turn on the pump. This will run hot water into the machine and drain it at the same time so the tub doesn't actually fill. Let the water run until you feel it flowing hot. Then press Power to turn the machine off, load your clothes and detergent, start the machine per your normal operation.

No need to run hot water at a faucet somewhere to purge the line, you're doing it *directly* into the machine.

Three steps.

Machine is off.
1. Press/hold Wash Temp Down, then press Power at the same time, release when panel activates.
2. Press Wash Temp Up (to run hot water), press Regular (to run drain pump), until the water runs hot.
3. Press Power to shut off.
Load and go.

I hope this info helps your problem with the machine. If you wish, you can send an e-mail to me via GardenWeb's contact form on my member profile. I'm also in TX.


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

"I love love love the tankless heater system we installed last year........ I now have as much hot water as I want for my shower.......... I only wish the new system had somehow solved the "no hot water in the washing machine" issue."

Two suggestions.....#1: listen to dadoes. He's got your machine plus on-demand heater. He knows stuff. #2: The end-all solution for you would be a machine that has it's own heater and will provide what you select. I'd have to research further but I believe Miele will do this at 110v without timing out. I'm not sure about that.

Overall point is that the easiest/cheapest solution may be to change machine.

Personally, I would not live with any laundry situation that did not allow me actual HOT water wash when I wanted it. Other people have other opinions.

Have to ask you though.......many people are perfectly happy with cold/warm laundry wash temps. They post here frequently. If that's you, please disregard above.


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

Have to ask you though.......many people are perfectly happy with cold/warm laundry wash temps. They post here frequently. If that's you, please disregard above.

Nice mischaracterization.


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

Oh, back off, you self-absorbed trouble-seeker.

It was a couple of simple, accurate declarative sentences...having NOTHING to do with you.

If you want to tangle with me, state your case and go for it. But there's precisely nothing here.


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

Oh, back off, you self-absorbed trouble-seeker.

If you want to tangle with me, [...]

Pfft.


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

My water is 150. No kids to worry about being scalded


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

asolo, the 120V Mieles will pause the cycle timer to heat the water, but they won't do so indefinitely.

knot2fast, the DOE energy score for clothes washers includes more than just the energy used by the washer itself. It also takes into account: 1) The energy used to heat the water in the domestic water heater (favoring HE washers over deep-fill machines); 2) The energy used by a dryer to remove residual water in the fabrics (favoring washers with higher extraction force, generally HE washers with higher spin speeds).

Don't knock the very hot water of a sanitary cycle if you haven't tried it. For years we used typical agitator top-loaders. Once we got an FL washer with a sanitary cycle, and washed some dish towels in it, our remaining stock of "clean" towels (which had been washed on hot, with top-rated Tide detergent) suddenly seemed disgustingly slimy and dirty. And we were using Sears detergent, much lower-rated, in the FL. For me the sanitary cycle isn't about sanitizing, it's about exceptional cleaning, when needed and for fabrics that can tolerate it.


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

It would appear this business of obtaining hot water in HE machines with intermittent-fill characteristic via tankless water heater is a tough nut.

Are there ANY 110v machines available that will heat the water internally without timing out?

I have a tank heater and haven't encountered an issue with mfgr-specified temps in my own machine but I can imagine many people would.....and I suspect most of them would never know it.


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

Again, thank you everyone, and dadoes, I will definitely try the programming steps you outlined. I only wash my whites in hot water so it's not like I need it all the time. However, I do want it when I want it!

Honestly, I have posted quite frequently on the garden forums and have never gotten quite as much help as here on the laundry forum!


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

"I do want it when I want it!"

Wishing the mfgr's would get that message! One would think it would be a simple thing, wouldn't one?


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

TexasLynn, please do report back whether you get satisfactory water temps and performance out of the machine.

Just to note ... if your machine is perhaps a GWL10, then the Favorite hot-wash procedure I described is not correct. It can be done on GWL10 but the programming procedure is different. Diagnostic mode to purge the hot water line is the same.

Your "smelly washer" problem hasn't yet been discussed. There are several ways to fix that. Ask if you want to know.


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

On the Electrolux, if the water temp falls below 120 F on a hot wash, the heater will kick in.


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

Speaking of the dryer -

Am I correct that even today's dryers user more energy than even an old TL washer? It's as if the energy standards left the dryer completely alone, and focused on the washer, making it use less and less energy, while the dryer continues to zap most of the energy used in doing laundry.


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

Umm....yes...they always have and always will.

Gotta blow air. Gotta heat the air that's blowing. Where are the savings going to come from? Tough nut, that.

Many have gone back to clothes-lines where they're allowed.


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

True! The only way of saving energy in the dryer is by new technologies like heat-pump dryers or ones that use solar-heated water to heat the air. Miele, for one, has such a model.

About temps: I, once again, will say that washerdryerinfo.com is a very informative source for such type of information. While I don't agree with/ understand all their findings, they do have a very interesting table that lists the temps achieved during different cycles.

LG seems among the worst with some Sanitary cycles stopping at 120F. A Samsung got quite hot at 140F for DeepSteam and 155F on Sani. Whirlpool/Maytag has the nicest temp selection in my opinion. By default 104 for Whites, 115 for Heavy Duty, 130 on the Allergen cycle and 140F on PowerWash. No Miele tested, though. Would love to see what they think of these.

Alex


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

I'm surprised they can actually get away with labeling it a "sanitary" cycle, when it's not actually a sanitary cycle.


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

Alex, not sure where you are getting that information about LG but I can tell you from my experience that my LG front loader definitely goes much higher than 120 on the sanitary cycle. I can't open the door and measure the temperature but the plastic/glass on the door gets HOT to the touch on Sanitary. According to LG Customer Service, the Sanitary goes to 158F in my machine.
I have read some posts from people who own LG top loaders that their Sanitary cycles top at 140F - that seems lower than it should be for the cycle to be called Sanitary.


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE!!!

I followed Dadoes programming instructions, punched about three buttons AND GOT A HOT WATER WASH!!!! It was incredible and I was so happy you would have thought I won the lottery! I realize that not having hot water to wash with is truly insignificant as far as the level of inconveniences (or bad things!) that can happen to you in this world, but I was still very happy that it was so easily - and cheaply - solved.

Thank you, Dadoes, you made my day! My whites thank you! And thanks to everyone else also!


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

izeve, I got the numbers from the source I quoted above: washerdryerinfo.com;;They run every cycle on the machine, with default settings, with an eight pound load and measure the max. temp.

LG WM3885HWCA Sanitary = 137.5F
LG WM3360HWCA Sanitary = 132F
Kenmore 40272 Sanitary = 136F

I got the 120F wrong, though. I confused it with the Samsung top loader, which reached only 123.4F (and used 81 gallons on the Towels cycle, by the way).


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

"Sanitary" down in the 130's? What a travesty!


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

132F or 137F is still pretty low. I wish I could measure the temp of my Sanitary cycle but in my LG FL the door locks once certain temp is reached and cannot be open. And I have not been able to get a temp reading by pressing a combination of buttons on my LG - I have read about it but it doesn't seem to be working for me. Does anyone know what combination that is and whether this can be done while the cycle is running, paused or otherwise?


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

Just a WAG ---can u simply turn the machine OFF T
to u lock the door. Its not like a test cycle is costly


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

Turning off at the control probably would trigger it to drain and end the cycle. Unplugging the power cord may work, unless power is required to UNlock the door (depends on the lock design).

Another potential method is to check he wash water out the drain hose ... unless the machine adds cold water to temper it before draining.


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

@ whirlpool trainee....

Thanks for link to that site. Some pretty amazing stuff there. I had no idea it had gotten so bad. My 7-year-old German-built Duet provides 127F "hot" in two cycles plus 157F "sanitary" and cleaning cycles. I had long thought the latest machines would be better, not worse, and certainly not as bad as your site indicates.

Perusing your site has given me an entirely different perspective of why mfgrs are so reluctant to disclose temperatures of their various cycles. It would be embarrassing for them to own it. Who would pay $1,000+ for a machine that delivers a "whitest whites" cycle indicating "hot" of 101F? What, exactly, is "sanitary" about 125-135F? Do you know anybody who thinks 85F is "warm"?

I've also changed my perspective of the formerly-assumed benefit of having an on-board heater. If they're no longer allowing wash temperatures above bathtub range anyway, why bother with a heater?

What's next? Shall we all turn our water-heaters down to 101F?

I'm reminded of the title of an old Firesign Theatre Record......."Everything You Know is Wrong". That's about how I feel after exploring this information about the newest machines.


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

Thanks dadoes, it does add cold water right before draining so that will not work.
Oh well, I can feel that the door is hot to the touch and my laundry is coming out very clean on Sanitary - got rid of old stains on my kitchen towels, white sheets are bright and white and towels and fresh and fluffy - so probably no need obsessing about the actual temperature....


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

... - so probably no need obsessing about the actual temperature....
Right! :-)


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

I feel for all you people who can't get your washers to provide hot water.


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

I feel for the population of an entire nation (mine!) being compelled, clandestinely, via deliberate and intentional obfuscation and deception, to continue purchasing durable goods that have been legislatively changed and required to not work.


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

I've often wondered why manufacturers get away with labeling cycles "sanitary". 205 degrees would be total kill and few washers hit that. So, what defines sanitary in the laundry sense, meaning what is it they claim to kill, and why is there no accountability for false advertisement? The detergents and cleaners are tested and certified in order to advertise themselves as disinfectant or anti-bacterial. They must have kill claims. In this day and age how have to washer manufacturers not been held to the same standards?


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Accountability?

"Accountability" goes begging when agendas rule. Clearly that's what's happening here.

Parellel situation occurs to me regarding good ol' "American Made" Harley Davidson motorcycles. I would like know why it is that Harleys -- alone among all other vehicles allowed on the highway -- are apparently exempt from the noise regulations that govern every other vehicle allowed a license. I would estimate nine out ten I see are running straight pipes. You all know what they sound like when they open the throttle.....and what a group of ten or twenty sounds like. Why is it allowed for them when it's prohibited for every other vehicle? I don't know the agenda but I'm absolutely certain there is one.

Probably lousy example but I hope the concept sticks.


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

If I were a manufacturer of a product that was called upon for false advertising, I would simply point out all of the other false advertising and ask what they intend to do about that as well? They are free to false advertise but I'm not?

Tide has to follow stringent rules but the machines don't?

Vehicles have to follow specific rules but Harley Davidson's don't?


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

I'm not aware of any advertising that promises a sanitize cycle does anything more than "sanitize." I don't think they're actually promising any specific results.

It's the consumers that make the leap to what they think a sanitize cycle actually does for their laundry. And the manufacturers are OK with that, I'm sure.


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

Sanitize is an entirely different thing than sterilize.


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

There was a discussion a while back about the surprisingly low sanitize temperature on a particular Maytag FL. IIRC, the manual specified the use of some laundry product in the sanitize cycle. The water temperature along with the product would sanitize the load to the applicable NSF standard (which, as dadoes points out, is not the same as sterilization). Of course this is a big disappointment to those of us who like a sanitize cycle for its temperature, not its hygienic effect.


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

if you want to STERILIZE buy an autoclave machine. :)


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

Coincidentally, I happen to be presently involved in minor repair of mom's 19-year-old Maytag TL and considering wisdom of replacement as I write. The prospect of replacing with a machine that provides "hot" washes of 100-105F not encouraging.

Long-known dealer from whom I'm obtaining the parts says he's discouraged, too. To illustrate, he showed me several owner's manuals from the new machines on his floor NONE of which disclose temperatures for ANY of their euphemistically-named cycles. ATC apparently controls everything these days and they don't disclose what their settings are.

I haven't considered buying new since my Duet purchase in 2005. Looks like I'll have to start over.

Very appreciative of the disclosures in whirlpool trainees referenced site: washerdryerinfo.com Will have to research diligently, apparently, if I'm interested in knowing wash temps of any new machine considered.....which I certainly am. CR and other sites not helpful as far as cycle-temps concerned.

Not especially concerned about "sanitary" cycles -- only used that on my Duet a couple of times anyway -- but I do want actual-hot wash temps when I choose. Would like at least a couple of cycles that will give me 120F or above. Resentful of this apparently universal non-disclosure.


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

asolo, this seems like a daunting task given the recent "improvements" in the laundry industry...

I think you will have a hard time finding a washer that gives you a true hot wash. I have a front loading LG that does a heated HOT wash on its Baby Wear cycle (stupid name for a cycle but it's the equivalent of Heavy Duty on other machines). That cycle has a heated wash and an extra rinse. You can select HOT or Extra HOT temperature for the wash and the run time is 1:40 to 1:52 minutes depending on temp selection. It also has a sanitary cycle which I use at least once a week for towels and sheets. When Hot temp is selected in other cycles the heater will turn on but it usually will not have sufficient time to heat the water to the true hot temperature (I consider that 120F minimum) because of a short cycle time. I typically use Perm Press cycle with Hot temp selected when I want a true Warm wash, and Baby Wear with Hot temp selected when I want a true Hot wash.

All in all, it's ridiculous that we have to go to such lengths to figure out how our washers really work (it took me some time of testing, experimenting with different cycles and selections, measuring the temperature, observing etc.) but all in all now that I figured it out, I have been very pleased with the performance I am getting from this washer considering the low cost (it was a now discontinued model WM2301 purchased in 2010 for $500).


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

My point with the sanitary cycle claims was that you aren't killing anything at 120 that you wouldn't kill at 85 without bleach or another disinfectant. The ph levels of home use detergents won't accomplish anything like sanitizing without enough heat. In order to get enough alkalinity to do so would require neutralizing, a sour, in the rinse.

So basically if you want hot use the sanitize setting but do not use it to sanitize things. Hot is for very warm, warm is to get to tepid and cold is frigid. No wonder so many complain of poor results!


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

Inasmuch as I appear to be approaching another actual decision-point, I'm going to start a new thread for my research and see what the local mavens bring to it.


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

There was a discussion a while back about the surprisingly low sanitize temperature on a particular Maytag FL. IIRC, the manual specified the use of some laundry product in the sanitize cycle.

That would have been the Maytag Bravos 850 top loader (now replaced by the 950) and its Sanitary with Oxi cycle.

izeve, I read the service manual of your LG and couldn't find any reference to a combination of buttons to press to give a reading of the temp inside the drum. :( Actually, the service manual does not even list the temps any more. It does, however, state that heating takes place in every cycle.

Alex


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

Fisher&Paykel washing Machine has no Hot or even close to Warm water wash!!!
I just realized this after about a year!
I payed $55.00 to have repair man come and say I needed to run my hot tap water before starting machine. wow what insight! Boy do I feel burned on that. No one ever told me these machines don't have this Hot water Wash. Why is there a Hot setting on the panel then??
I don't always use Hot Water but once in a while it's necessiary!


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

F&P top load washers typically fill with water at the selected temp only for the first few minutes of the wash cycle - the Eco Active step. The washer fills some and recirculates the warm or hot water + concentrated detergent over the clothes. Once that step is over, the washer adds cold water until the tub is filled and agitation starts.


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

MyLittleHouse, there *are* some workarounds to get a full-hot wash. What is the model number of your machine?


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

I have the Fisher&Paykel washing Machine EcoSmart GWL 11 Would love to know about a "roundabout" way to get all hot water wash when I need it.

thanks


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

Actually, I'll give you just one method, which is the easiest.

It's in the instruction manual, described for cleaning the tub of accumulated residue .... but most people either don't read their instructions ... or in this case don't think about using the procedure to wash clothes.

These 5 steps you do only once.

1) Turn the Power on.
2) Press and hold Favorite until it beeps and the light flashes.
3) Select Perm Press.
4) Select Hot wash temp (hot can't be selected with Perm Press except via this specific procedure).
5) Press Favorite to save the setting.

The Favorite button can hold only one saved program at at time so this cycle will take the place of what you may have previously had programmed on Favorite.

Now you can run a hot wash when desired by selecting the Favorite.

The water level is probably preset to High but you should be able to manually change it each time after selecting Favorite. Auto-sensing water level may or may not work, you'll have to try it to see.

Perm Press runs a slow final spin.

To run a load on one of the other cycles with the hot fill ... start it on Favorite first. Once it fills to the selected level and starts agitating, shut off the Power to cancel. Then turn the Power on again, select the desired cycle (Heavy, Regular, Delicate, or Woolens), select the SAME water level that is already filled, select any other desired options, and press Start. Eco Active wash phase won't run since the machine is already filled to the target water level. Agitation will start immediately and the cycle will proceed to finish.

Added:
Perm Press does not run the Eco Active phase, so it will do a full-fill *warm* wash without any special programming. Use the same technique described above to get a full-fill warm wash on other cycles ... start on Perm Press, then cancel and switch to the other cycle.

This post was edited by dadoes on Thu, Jul 4, 13 at 13:07


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

WOW Who EVER gave me the way to get a Hot Water Wash is a genius!!!

After paying $55.00 for a nincompoop come and do nothing or say anything worthwhile!!

thank you very very much!!!!


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

Glad to know about the tankless water heaters and the stop-and-go fills with FL washers and even some DW. Never thought about the stop and go fills not even turning on the tankless water heater when it is a short time span. Years ago I had a TL and tankless heater and no problems but sure I would have today with my FL. Learn something new every day.

This post was edited by grandmaof3 on Wed, Jul 10, 13 at 14:33


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

Hi:
I don't have a tank-less hot water heater; mine is a regular one and located near my washer. I never had a problem with hot water coming in; I had a problem with keeping the water that comes into the washer tub to stay on HOT SETTING.
The problem was that Hot would electronically switch to Cold mid-way in the filling of my Washer tub. Therefore cancelling out any hot water that had been filled into the tub.A cold wash when I wanted hot!!


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RE: What washing machines will actually give you a hot wash?

After just buying a new Kenmore (LG) washer, it finally dawned on me . . . with no internal heater in the washer, our tankless heater may or may not be triggering during the fill cycle. Plus, it takes a while for the tankless to get hot water to the spigot.

We have our tankless heater set at 120°. The washer, of course, fills in short bursts. It appears our only path to get as close to 120°-water as possible into the machine is to run the guest bathroom's hot-water tap to "pre-fill" the line. Unless there's a similar, "secret" hot-water/pre-fill/drain procedure for LG machines?

This post was edited by studio460 on Thu, Jul 11, 13 at 17:25


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