What is the exact model number of your 9400. You can see this if you open the door and look near the hinge.

The new Whirlpool Sport was designed to be used on the second floor, the 9400 was designed to be used on a cement floor. Lowes currently has the Sport wfw8300S model in stock. The somewhat larger wfw8500s model will, hopefully, be available in July. The 8500 has a built in heater like the 9400. Perhaps you can make a deal with whomever you bought it from to take it back and give you credit on an 8500 when they become available, should you want to do that.

I have a new 9400 that sits on a concrete floor and has vibration and noise problems so I am undergoing the same frustrations as you are. And still trying to get the 9400 repaired so that it will not shake itself to pieces. There is still hope.

Check out the discussion group started by jon_m. It has much information about the Sport series.

The new Whirlpool Sport was designed to be used on the second floor, the 9400 was designed to be used on a cement floor.

Hiker, you keep repeating this meme and (as I think you know) I suspect it is hype. Can you give a link to any specifics of design (not just marketing statements) that support the idea that (a) the 9400 was designed assuming installation on cement, (b) there is a substantive difference in the design of the suspensions of the two machines, and (c) this difference was specifically in order to optimize for upper-floor installation? - DR

Dross,

From what I gather from various sources, I believe that the Sport, and the Kenmore He2, are both using suspension dampers called "gap dampers".

As I understand it, the way a gap damper works is there's a small zone where the damper has essentially no damping force, but if the damper goes outside this zone, the damping force returns to normal.

So, if there's an unbalanced load in the washer, and this unbalanced load causes the drum to move around more than it's supposed to, the dampers function just like normal, but at high speed, presumably after all the heavy water has been spun out, the drum moves around less, and it can stay within the "no damping force zone". This means that less vibration force is transmitted to the cabinet attachment points, and consequently, less vibration is transmitted to the floor.

In theory this should work well, but only time will tell whether on not they do. If they do work, I'm wondering if they could be used as a direct replacement for the dampers in the He4 / Duet. If so, then they would be a quick and easy solution for any He4 / Duet owner who is having vibration problems with their current installation.

Back when Jon_M first posted about this on the forum, I did some searching both on the web and at the patent office for such dampers, and couldn't find anything relevant to washing machines other than Jon's posts here and on other forums. In particular, "gap damper" does not seem to be a standard term.

Had there been a specific design idea to use special dampers in a washer for this purpose, I would have expected Whirlpool to take out a patent on it, but plowing through all the Whirlpool washer patents I couldn't find anything recent on suspensions. This is why I remain skeptical of the claims. - DR

dross and washer_man
There is always marketing hype but the Sports have smaller drums and the "improved' suspension, both of which should cause less vibration. I keep trying to figure out if the Sport 8300's three gap dampers, with its small drum, would give less vibration than the four standard shock absorbers of the HT's. Three points determine a plane, do three shocks damp better than four? You both seem to have a technical background so perhaps you have some thoughts on this.

The gap damper design as given by washer_man make sense and I think that I did see a patent on such a thing. But not as shock absorber to control vibration but as a method of detecting out of balance conditions and correcting for this condition. With low damping when the vibration is small and large damping when the vibration is large (the excursion of the shock is greater) the vibration is reduced. This is in accordance with the article I referenced earlier dross (www.lord.com/Portals/_default/LordDocuments/root/white_papers/rheonetic/SPIE01_MR_dampers_in_wash.PDF).
So I think that there is some scientific evidence that the gap-dampers, as described by washer_man, will reduce vibration and allow the Sport models to be used on the second floor. BTW I understand that the latest model of the 9400's are also using gap-damper shocks. The earlier ones, like I have, do not have them. Perhaps an upgrade kit will be available in the future to upgrade the shocks on the 9400 to gap-damper shocks.

There is a large rhetorical difference between a company trying to improve its suspension - one hopes that all the companies are doing this all the time - and "designing the machine to be used on the second floor". Every Nth floor apartment in Europe has had FL washers for years, so the idea of a FL washer on the 2nd floor is not at all new. I had one 20 years ago in my 2nd-floor flat in England.

I saw the article, and think that variable resistance controllable in real time would be great for these machines, but there is no hint that the Duet is using MR fluid in its shocks.

BTW, I think you have it backwards - high damping means that the shock is stiffer, so there is less excursion (and more vibration is transmitted to the machine body). - DR

Ok here's the truth about Duet's and second floor installation. The only Duets that are recommended for second floor installation are the ones with the 6 point suspension system (that came from the Duet Sport development.) You can tell these machines by a number 4 at the end of the model number after the color code letter. If yours does not have the number 4 at the end, then it is meant for a concrete floor. Almost all modern washers are designed for a concrete floor. Many times, if on wood a washer (even top load in this day and age) will walk. Especially if the floor is made of plywood.

it is meant for a concrete floor. Almost all modern washers are designed for a concrete floor.

My beef is with the phrases "meant for" and "designed for". I completely agree that most washers are happier on concrete slabs. However, many modern washers are designed outside the US, and the idea of putting the washer in concrete-floored basements and garages (or even the existence of these) is simply not so common in Europe and Japan as it is here. I find it impossible to believe that those designers, or even US washer designers, when writing down the specs for a given washer, assumed as part of the design that it would be on a concrete floor. - DR

dross,
I was told that the WP machines do not use MR fluids. I was also told by a WP service man that the photo shown in the Lord publication was a WP Duet HT. The gap-damper design sounds like a simpler, and less expensive, way to make a shock that has both low and high damping. Not as good as the multi-viscosity damping with a MR fluid shock but better than using a "single damping" shock.

BTW2 BTW, I think you have it backwards - high damping means that the shock is stiffer, so there is less excursion (and more vibration is transmitted to the machine body). For my 9400 it is not backwards. The vibration comes from the extreme excursions of the drum. The shocks can be seen to extend and compress a large amount at this time. If the fluid is more viscous then the excursions of the shocks would be less, not more, and the vibration that I experience would be less. The vibration that my 9400 has comes from the drum flailing around, not from the machine body moving around on the floor.

I know that FLers have been used in Europe for many years. I have also used them there. But they were rather small machines, if I remember correctly, that did not spin terribly fast as compared to the 9400 and other large drum machines that we buy in the US. Is the vibration problems associated with larger drums that spin faster? Does vibration reduction technology need to advance for our large drum, high speed, FLers? Why are we now having these vibration problems?

The shocks can be seen to extend and compress a large amount at this time.

Yes, but that is "low damping", at least in the technical sense of the damping term in the differential equations describing harmonic oscillation.

More viscous shocks would not necessarily reduce transmission of the to your floor - after all, as viscosity goes to infinity, in the limit the shocks would be rigid rods, transmitting everything. The viscosity should ideally be tuned so as to provide a damping component which is 180 degrees out of phase with the machine's vibrations.

But they were rather small machines, if I remember correctly, that did not spin terribly fast as compared to the 9400

The European machines are usually smaller, but they generally spin much faster than machines like the 9400. Speeds of 1600rpm are not uncommon. G-force is linear in the radius but varies as the square of the rotational speed, so these machines are generating substantially larger G-forces than US machines.

Vibration problems are not unknown in Europe either - hence the unique Asko suspension design, and Miele's use of cast iron to weight their machines - my point was simply that (a) these machines have been widely used on upper floors for years, and (b) they are not *designed* with basements and garages in mind. Incidentally, I believe the 9400 was designed in Germany. - DR

Realistically, in my opinion, based on my recent experience, you will NOT get the duet 9400 to stop its significant vibration. I bought one, had it on the second floor, in a room with a small spans (6' x 8') and perfectly leveled right to left and front to back, and it would "shake the house down"! When I was told that that was the way it was, and that there was "nothing wrong with the machine", I made sure that the pair were returned and insisted upon a refund from Lowes. There was no way I was paying $2,000 for a modern, technological device that performed like that!

I am now waiting for the release of the Duet Sport 8500--the one with the REAL 6 point suspension system. Also, of importance, it does not have a tilted drum. I am sure that the 8500 will perform very well in this regard. Until then, though, I'm going to the Laundromat each week (please Whirlpool, get that 8500 into Lowes soon--PLEASE!!).

I wish I could have something more positive to relate; however, the truth of the matter is that the 9400 and its cousins, will not work well unless in the basement. It's simply crazy that appliance manufacturers cannot design a front loader that will not vibrate when level and on a "secure, sturdy floor--even one of wood. I mean residential homes are made with wooden floors, right? Do the engineers know this, or are they clueless??

Again, there are numerous FLs that work fine on upper floors. Right now there's another active thread about someone who put a NeXXt pair on his second floor, and the main complaint is that the dryer is louder than the washer. If there is a problem with the 9400 then there is a problem with the 9400, but just because Germany gave us the Trabant and the Wartburg doesn't mean that German cars are not roadworthy. - DR

dross
Your comment, "The viscosity should ideally be tuned so as to provide a damping component which is 180 degrees out of phase with the machine's vibrations' would be the 'best of all worlds' and could be accomplished using the tuneable MR Fluids. But it is more expensive to implement that using the WP gap-damper that, as described, seems to have only two damping levels, low and high. Better than only one damping level but not better than the infinite number obtainable using MR fluids. If you are designing a $100-200 million tall building or bridge that you do not want an earthquake to collapse then the cost of the MR fluid dampers is not only small but essential. If you are designing a washer designed to sell for $800-1400 then the cost of the MR fluid dampers may well be so high that the relatively inexpensive gap-dampers may do. And, if I understand correctly, the gap-damper is a passive device that does not require a circuit board and firmware to use, things that necessarily reduce reliability.

- My Whirlpool Duet GHW9150POW is a laughing stock, but I'm angry. It's a travesty of retail business.
- Intense vibration and walk.
- VISIBLY shimmies.
- MAIN POINT: NONE OF THEIR LITERATURE includes any indication or advisory about using only on concrete/slab.
- Laundry room is on first floor. Nice house is built to code. Crawl space beneath.
- In most universes, washers are built for houses...NOT the other way around.
- 6 Whirlpool-contracted technicians can't be wrong? HA. One of them even said "Don't mix your load," and "Try washing a lighter load." Preposterous. Same result when EMPTY.
- Whirlpool Corporation has yet to account for what is nothing else but a "rip-off."
- The small retailer-installer sympathizes but is helpless.
- There IS no acceptable explanation for this.

anyone have their duets stacked on the second floor, as we are planning to do?? what is your experience with this

Technically, my stacket duets are on my first floor, but the first floor is above the basement. So, in a way, my stacked duets are on a second floor.

I do not have a problem with vibration. I spent a good deal of time with the leveling legs. I think that was the key. Now, if I overload the washer and it becomes unbalanced, I have seen some movement and vibration. 99% of the time, it is virtually still and relatively silent.