Actually, Philips and Whirlpool started a European joint venture in 1989 and in 1991 Whirlpool became the sole owner. In 1982 Philips bought the German appliance company Bauknecht, so now it is owned by Whirlpool. I am sure that Whirlpool profits from the experience of the Bauknecht company since they have been producing FLs for a long time. The Whirlpool Duet is actually made in Germany by Bauknecht. It is probably a decent company, but it doesn't seem to be one of the best German washers. The top rated washers in Germany are usually Miele, Siemens/Bosch, and AEG.
I find it interesting that Whirlpool tries to hide the fact that their FLs are made in Germany. The American company website doesn't contain any information about the company's involvement with Bauknecht whereas the German website contains all the details as mentioned above.
Whirlpool owns Maytag and also builds the Kenmore machines for Sears. If you want to learn more about the company, check out the link below.

Here is a link that might be useful: Whirlpool history

Hi,

Thank you for the correction.

We are pleased with the Duet. Only thought is because Whirlpool is the manufacturer of Kenmore, Maytag and Whirlpool what are the mechanical differances? I was all prepared to pay extra if there was any heavy duty upgrades between models.

My last washer, a top-load Maytag lasted 17 years. At that time its list price was $1100.00. I could only hope that the Duet would last 17 years.

Noticed the same thing about what Whirlpool neglects to advertise. It may be that because Whirlpool is the manufacturer of other models there is a guideline on what can be promoted between models. Is the Whirlpool brand top tier brand and Maytag is second or is it the other way around? In Canada Maytag Epic, on sale, is $1499.00. Duet was almost $100.00 less. With no indications of differances we chose the Duet.

When I mentioned that Whirlpool and Lg is realatively new to the front load market it was more in respect to the North American Market. Even Miele with its long history had to re-engineer their machines for the North American market. Hands down not the same quality as in their 6kg model. Bosch also, had some errors along the way with the Nexxt line when first introduced. I had some interest in purchasing the Bosch however was swayed away from it by the sales people because they had so many returned. Parts availabilty and sevicing wasn't up to standard.

Overall, we are impressed with the Duet. Unless something goes wrong in the next while, we will be holding on to it.I think I'll try powdered detergent. It may work better with direct inject than liquid detergent.

Thanks again.

Hi,
they don't really say how Maytag compares to the Whirlpool models. It is a fairly new addition to the Whirlpool corporation (March 2006). I am not sure, but it sounds as if Amana and Jenn-Air were part of the Maytag brand.
As a comparison they list three tiers as being KitchenAid (high-end), Whirlpool (popular brand) and Roper (value oriented).
It is true that the European washers have a smaller capacity. I am sure it was a challenge to build FLs with a capacity of 9kg. The Bosch Nexxt series was designed for the US market, but now they are selling it in Germany as well (called Bosch Logixx 9).
As far as the advice from sales persons goes, I have asked two guys at our local Lowes what they thought about Bosch and Whirlpool. The one said he'd go for the Whirlpool and the other said he thinks Bosch is better. They did not really know much about the companies though when I asked further questions. They didn't even know that the Whirlpool was manufactured in Germany. I don't think they get enough training so they can pass information on to customers. I have done my own research and I think that Bosch makes pretty good appliances. It is tough to find much about reliability over the years since they are somewhat new. I think there are just small differences between the good FLs and there is always a possibility of getting a lemon...no matter what brand you buy. The reviews regarding service and parts availability vary widely, so it is tough to make a decision based on that.
Just by looking at some washers I got the impression that both Bosch and Whirlpool/Kenmore washers are fairly sturdy. I was not impressed with Frigidaire at all. GE and LG seem to be okay as well, but I personally like the Bosch the best.

Hi,

I thought Kitchenaid would be (high-end) and with Maytag epic being a rebadged Kitchenaid, I thought that meant Maytag was Whirlpool's new high-end models for laundry appliances. When I looked at the Epic I really couldn't make out structural differances. The knobs were the only thing I could see. Senseclean and 6th sense same thing. I can't reconcile spending the extra money for the same product, with the only change being a zinc knob vs. plastic knob on Duet. Furthermore, Whirlpool has put a lot of innovation into the duet and I am looking forward to the steam dryer out in the fall.

I don't think that Whirlpool's built in Germany is a big factor. Components can come from anywhere. It is the quality control that is important. So I agree, you can always end up with a lemon.

Bosch is definately a great washer, from what I saw, however couldn't get passed the service issues.

Tried the Lg and was happy however, vibrations were just too much.

Kenmore was the only other option. Nice machines but, I guess it just had too much shoved into it that it just meant one more thing that could go wrong...probably not a logical thought, I know. Simpleness of the Duet I really liked.

Good morning,
I wasn't saying that it is a big deal that the Duet is made in Germany. I just tried to point out that the sales people don't do their homework. There is a label right at the opening of the door that states where the washers are made. Is it that tough to take a look at it?
My sister-in-law bought a Duet and the sales person she talked to was reluctant to admit that it was build in Germany. I guess they want to advertise it as a true American product. They also didn't know that the Bosch and Siemens washers are basically identical. The company is called Bosch Siemens Home Appliances and it is a German company. I just think you should be well informed about the products you are trying to sell and you should be honest to the customer.
To me it doesn't matter much where the appliances come from. The quality standards and quality control of the companies are what make the difference. I agree with you a 100%.
I think I will risk the possible service issues with Bosch. I hope I'll be able to get a washer that doesn't need any service, but I'll probably get the extended warranty. There are just a few small things I like better about the Bosch. One of them is the sanitary cycle at 170 degrees instead of "just" 150 degrees. I think I can live without the 205 degrees of the European washers. Most people use that very rarely anyway. I think the 170 will be fine for getting the musty smell out of dish rags or towels that were forgotten in a gym bag. 150 doesn't sound quite hot enough for me, but there probably isn't such a big difference.

Good afternoon...

I find it very unfortunate that sales people are as ill informed as they are. Was already dealing with vibration issues with the Lg. The retailer we purchased it from kindly offered to replace the unit. So I opted to research what was available at a different retailers. Was also looking for price matching. So basically the one sales representative lead me to the Lg...how wonderful they were etc. I said to him..."thought Lg's have vibration issues". "Shouldn't be a problem, no different than other front loaders" I explained my laundry room was on a second floor...."no problems"...I take a look at unit and on the side of the Lg is a big....big sticker, to the effect "This machine is to placed on cement floors only..."Second floor installations not recommended". (Didn't see any such sticker on the Lg we had purchased)The man didn't even acknowlege any other brands. Didn't even know the Epic was built by Whirlpool. "Maytag, stay away from them, nothing but problems." Only one sales person gave us information in respect to their own customer feedback only (based on brands they carried). No mechanical info. was offered. Miele first, Bosch second, Maytag epic third. Whirlpool fourth. etc. Bosch great sensers, almost too sensitive, and sanitary option. Had a few returned because customers just couldn't get it right about how much detergent to use. Also, vibration was more than Maytag. However, washing was great and so was the energy savings. Maytag was third only because it is a rebranded kitchenaid. The store had good response on Kitchenaid. Bosch 700 series costs $1699.00 in Canada. Somewhat less expensive at warehouse appliance stores, but still very expensive. My duet came in at just $1320 before taxes. See now that May month is maytag month so sales are happening and 9700 is $1399.00-$1449.00.

I have a Miele dishwasher and love it. Its sanitary wash at 150 degrees. Because its a contained space it maybe climbs higher than that. When my wash is done, I can't touch any of the plates because they burning hot. I think with in-board heater and temperature control it would be no different with a front load.

Sorry, correction....sani wash is 156 degrees on my Miele dishwasher

Good evening...

SB- Your dishes in your dishwasher are mostly hot at the end of the cycle from the drying element, not the washing temperature.

sr712, without knowing the specific Miele model number and feature-set, that may not be the case. An increasing number of dishwashers nowadays have done away with a heating element for drying, and instead rely on residual heat from a high-temp final rinse to assist with moisture evaporation during the drying phase. My Fisher & Paykel DishDrawer doesn't have a labeled Sani cycle, but the final rinse on Heavy heats to 163°F. Normal cycle is 150°F. It does not have a drying heater.

Hi,

Getting off subject of front load washers, however, In respect to the Miele dishwasher, I usually stop the machine before drying phase. Super hot then too. Furthermore, I believe, could be wrong, but my dishwasher just circulates air and then the steam get drawn out of the machine. No heater comes on during the drying. Called turbothermic.

"Miele Touchtronic dishwashers achieve quick, effective drying results by using this unique, forced air drying system. Cool, dry room air is circulated into the wash chamber causing condensation, resulting in much shorter, more effective drying times".

I guess the point I was trying to make is only that if 156 degrees in dishwasher is quite hot, it would be just as equally hot in the front load washer. In particular the inboard heater with temp control, where the temp is maintained throughout the wash cycle.

regards

My mistake, then. How much do these Turbo dishwashers cost? and who sells them?

hi

Miele dishwashers are beautiful machines. We purchased ours 6 years ago. Purchase was about $1,200.00cdn.,..floor model.
Not sure what prices are for them now. Most retailers that carry Miele front loaders, also carry Miele dishwashers.

As far as appliances go, the Miele dishwasher was best purchase we made. Must note that Miele's dishwashers have a slightly smaller capacity than the North American tall tub models. Miele is not as deep because the dishwasher is a full cabinet surround frame.

Yikes, SB! I thought I was going outside the box when I spent $500 for an "electronic" Kenmore 11 years ago. Still working, too, BTW. Thanks for the info.

Hi
Yes, it is pretty pricy for a dishwasher, however, needed a very quiet dishwasher because our home is open concept. Six years ago, quiet model dishwashers all ranged over the $1000.00. so I knew I had to commit to at least that amount.

Checked out AJ madison site, out of curiousity, and U.S. pricing for base model (which is what I went for at the time) is $1049.00.

Not to keep us off topic here but. I had a 10 year old Miele the one before the touchtronic and it didn't have a sani wash, but it had a pots and pans at 170F.

I redid the kitchen and have a newer model that does have the sani wash I think it also heat the water to close to 170F. and when you aren't using the sani cycle the last rinse is always 150F(except for the china cycle) So the temps these units use are a bit higher than 150 or 160.

The units are also a cold fill machine so they can be connected to your cold water which means that they are made to heat the water fast and hot.

The units use condensation drying no heating element. The older one used turbothermic drying with a fan that helped but it also blew warm air into the kitchen(not a big deal) The newer ones still have turbothermic drying with a fan but do not blow any air into the room.

The newer ones still have turbothermic drying with a fan but do not blow any air into the room.

The moisture has to leave the unit somehow, it can't stay in the machine, or the dishes wouldn't be dry. If not the room, then where? Maybe it just blows it under your counters. :)

Good morning....
to answer the moisture question regarding Miele dishwashers, pulled this from their site, not sure is it answers your question.

"Most Miele dishwashers employ an advanced drying system that draws room temperature air through a port at the bottom of the appliance. This air is disbursed through special channels around the exterior dishwasher cavity and allows the interior water particles to condense against the walls of the dishwasher.

During this process no external air is ever introduced inside of the dishwasher. This provides the most effective and hygienic drying possible."

This is available on newer models...

In respect to the whirlpool wfw9400, I have now owned it for a few weeks and just wanted to update.

Not sure if my machine is the exclusion, however, for those interested in purchasing this machine..note it does use little water in the normal/casual to sanitary cycles. All the delicate cycles are fine. Having a tougher time figuring out how to best wash my towels. Tried the bulky setting and still not enough water. I know that less water is what these machines are designed to do but, with no towel setting, per se, the water level is just not enough. My towels are washing on top of each other with slightly or no additonal water. The towels through the wash continue to absorb water so not enough water to cushion the load. Also, rinsing is a problem. Especially with towels. I ended up running a rinse/spin 6 or 7 times to get the suds out. Kids clothing and personal garments are also getting extra rinses by just simply doing another wash. I use the lowest amount of detergent possible. Small loads are a couple of teaspoons at best and larger loads is half the recommended. Anyone else having similar issues with the new whirlpools?

sb-laud are you using "HE" detergent? I never have that much suds in my washer. Not unless the clothes are full of detergent residue from previous washer. I didnt think that was possible but I have heard several people here say that it is so.

sb-laund,
I think that the Duet like other HE machines does use enough water to wash your towels. How do you figure that there is no or not much "additional" water to "cushion" them? First off, the water is not really meant to cushion the clothes other than on the delicate cycle where the friction between the clothes and the drum has to be kept low.
On a FL the clothes rotate through a small amount of water on the bottom of the drum. You will normally not see the water since the window of the washer is smaller than its drum. And towels don't indefinitely keep absobing water. Once they are dripping wet they can't absorb any more water.
Are you using a HE detergent? It is not normal at all that you have to use 6-7 extra rinses to get the suds out. A FL normally does several small rinses and it spins the rinse water out after each rinse. You are either using the wrong or too much detergent. If you have really soft water you have to use a lot less than under hard water conditions. The recommendations are usually for medium hard or hard water, so you may have to use less than half of the recommended amount. He detergents are not supposed to create much sudsing at all.
If you keep adding all the extra rinses you make all the water savings obsolute. That is not how a FL is supposed to be used.

Hi,

Yes, I use he Liquid detergent only.

Towels I own are a mix of thinner to fairly thick towels.
Yes, the towels seem to be wet; however, as the drum turns, the towels tumble into no water. The friction is between the towels, As the drum tumble there should be some water somewhere. The rinse is similar amount of water as the initial wash cycle. When the cycle is complete there is sometimes evidence of some suds (little) on the boot or none at all. Yet, if I do a rinse/spin, or another wash cycle the water is quite sudsy. Therefore, not a clean rinse during initial rinse and extra rinse cycle. I put a blanket to wash and it produced a lot of suds, no suds sensor came on. Maybe I have a glich in the board. The only rinse cycle that produces obvious amount of water and better rinse is the delicate cycle. I have figured out to do most loads to get satisfactory results however, towels are a challenge. My concern is so little water is wearing out my newer towels.

Hm, it sounds strange that you see lots of sudsing with an HE detergent. Maybe something is wrong with your washer if the sensor doesn't react to that.
It sounds as if you do have very soft water, otherwise I can't imagine you seeing "quite sudsy" water after an extra rinse.
If your towels are wet enough and they are clean after washing them, I wouldn't be worried about too much wear. The friction between the towels shouldn't make a big difference. The agitator action in traditional TLs is not really a gentle treatment and even then the wear is normally not too bad.

sb-laund, there IS water in the Duet, but that's likely not obvious if you are looking through the window when running a large load of towels. To find out exactly how much, aim the drain hose into a large enough container to catch it. I'm betting there'll be more than you expect. The water level is well below the edge of the window and the tumbling towels will obscure what's there. Doesn't matter how much water your towels absorb, the machine will keep filling until the proper water level is reached as determined by a water flow-meter and water level pressure-sensors. Much of washing action in these high-efficiency front loaders comes from the saturated clothes slapping against the drum and rubbing against themselves. More water reduces the slapping/rubbing effect, which would lessen the machine's cleaning power. Delicate cycles are programmed with more water to *purposely* provide more cushioning/floating effect so friction on those items is reduced accordingly.

As for the excess sudsing, run your towels (or any clothing that generates too much suds when washing) through one or more complete wash cycles *without* any detergent ... until the water runs clear. You can then start afresh with your laundering routines using an appropriate amount of detergent. Adding a 1/2 cup of white vinegar to the detergent dispenser for these rinse-out cycles may help cut through any remaining detergent residue. Detergent is alkaline, vinegar counters it by being mildly acidic.

Thank you dadoes

I will try the vinegar and hope that helps.

Definately some detergent can still have remained in the clothing from prior washings.

we done somne research, but haven't been aobsessed about it.
I decided for environmental (and cleanlieness reasons) to go q/front loader for both washing and dryer. I ordered a
ian Trimm LG front loading washing and dryer.I real too many critical ones of he sear elite that scared me aware from those. I'd appreciate any anyone who have to say about the LG. I think they're a good brand, getting hi rating fromn CR, so any welcomed before I sigh on the final liner

Good Morning...
Well I have reduced the suds from the machine and towels, so that's getting better. Have concluded that the detergent, even though He, produced more sudsing than another brand I have used. The only other problem I'm having to figure out is the graying and elastic stretch of our cotton white socks. Will have to research that one. The one cycle I do rely on is the delicate cycle, especially for business shirts. Tried washing DH business shirts in casual/normal cycle and that cycle was rough on the collars and sleeves. (Used perm. press cycle for business shirts with the Lg) The Lg was definately easier on the clothing when it came to the sanitary cycle and such, however, still feel that the Whirlpool wins on gentleness on the Delicate cycles. This may be marginal. I do believe in Consumer Reports suggestion that the Whirlpool is not as gentle as other models in regards to longer wash cycles. I am very happy that the Whirlpool is soo quiet...No vibrations here.

Regards.