I think most people would say the axxis is the better machine. There were vibration/walking issues with the nexxt that was supposedly solved in the Vision series.

If you don't want the extra capacity I would say definetly get the axxis.

BTW I have the Vision 500 DLX. I like it and want the extra capacity.

I'm starting to think that when consumer reports, jd power associates, etc compare the bosch washers to others for ratings, they are only including the full size washers which has included the Nexxt and now in recent months, Vision.

Going to order my Axxis (WAS24460UC + WTV76100US) units today. Sears has 20% off all Energy Star appliances(washer) and 15% off of other appliances(dryer). Plus another 5% off if you use Sears credit card. And no interest if you pay it off within 12 months. In my area, the sale extends to tomorrow, Tues.

Thank you both! Unfortunately i was half asleep when posting this. The set i have is the Vision 300... how does the axxis compare to those?

wondering_2,
I don't know how the Vision compares to the Axxis. The Vision is kind of new and the successor to the Nexxt. But the general thinking around here was the Axxis was better quality than the Nexxt.

Please someone correct me if I'm wrong. The Axxis made by BSH-- Bosch and Siemens Home Appliances. The Axxis is German Engineered but made in the US. I don't know where the Vision is made.

YES!! I just ordered an Axxis set as mentioned above with the stacking kit. After much research because of my limited 31" deep closet space, I think this was a good choice. I decided to pick it up from the store and install it myself...Save $65 Can't wait to get it.

Other units considered:
GE 2.6 IEC Cu. Ft. Front Load Washer, WCVH4800KWW and dryer
(NO reviews but one)

LG 2.7 Cu. Ft. WM1355HW Washer with dryer
(no vented dryer)

Asko W6222 Washer with dryer
(Hard to find - Opinions here said Axxis was better)

John

Besides the obvious size difference, the Axxis and Vision series take different approaches to power use. The Axxis washer runs on 240v rather than 120v electrical power, and thus heats water much faster, which speeds up the hot-water cycles (and allows connection to only a cold water feed if you wish). Filling with cool water and heating as it washes is generally the best way to clean clothes - hotter water cleans better, but exposing some types of stains to hot water can set the stains permanently unless first exposed to cooler water. OTOH, the Vision offers Bosch's "Aquastop" hose-leak prevention system (on most models) that the Axxis doesn't, and only the Vision allows use of chlorine bleach (although heating the wash water to 161F on the sanitary cycle generally makes bleach unnecessary).

The dryer also works differently - the Vision draws up to 5400 watts whereas the Axxis only uses 2800 watts (it's heating a smaller space, so it will dry nearly as fast, and use less power). Only the Vision has an available steam feature, if that matters. The Vision offers a gas version; the Axxis offers a ventless (condensation) electric version, but I'm assuming if you're deciding between the two you're getting the conventional vented 240v electric versions, which both offer. If you're wondering, the Axxis washer and dryer won't require any change to your electric outlet or service - there is a fused 240-volt/15-amp outlet on the back of the Axxis dryer that the washer plugs into, and since the dryer only needs 15 amps for itself, the dryer uses a conventional 240-volt/30-amp cord and plugs into your existing 240V dryer outlet, which powers both machines. With the Vision, the higher-wattage dryer needs the 240v/30a outlet for itself, and the washer will need a separate 120v/15a or 120v/20a outlet and circuit to plug into.

I wasn't aware the Nexxt series had been discontinued. I always like how easy the washer door, which wrapped around the top a few inches, made reaching into the back of the tub easier. But that design also prevented them from being stacked or installed beneath a countertop, and the tilted drum was slightly less capacious than other similarly-sized washers.

I'm not too familiar with the Vision series - they're pretty new - but at least based on the online spec sheet they look pretty good. The Axxis certainly is. Look them both over carefully and get whichever you like better.

Me, I'd probably go with the Axxis if it was large enough for your needs (and it has impressively large capacity for machines of such small outside dimensions - about the same as a typical older top-load washer).

lee676,
Nice write-up, as always. I only thought the Vision replaced the Nexxt. I'm probably wrong.
Thanks,
John

Both machines are engineered in Germany.

Axxis is made in Germany.
Vision in North Carolina.

Like I said I like my Vision.

I see a thread on the first page right now started by someone who hates their Vision 800 series and wants to return it.

On the appliance forum their is a thread asking for opinions of an entire suite of appliances including Axxis.

One poster said he has two pair.One in his home and another in a rental property.One pair is flawless the other so "tempermental" he got rid of them.

If the extra capacity and size of the Vision is not a plus but a negative then just get the Axxis.

I have the AXXIS WAS24460uc model and it is a very good washer. The AXXIS is a rebranded LOGGIX model from Germany that has some of the wash temps preset (They think were dumb with laundry).

The AXXIS model is MADE IN GERMANY. The build quality is HIGHER. It has a direct drive motor with no brushes to wear out and need changing. It does NOT walk across the floor.

My wife likes it and for what we paid ($500 on ebay) it was a steal. I looked at the Vision models in the store. While they are larger, the build quality seems a lot lower. They tend to focus on cheesy features like steam and 15 minute washes (which don't get your clothes clean).

If you need the larger capacity and want quality go with the Miele W48xx series. If you don't need the uber sized machines, you would be very happy with the AXXIS models.

Our house has had Bosch washers for a little over a decade. We wore out the little 1.8CF Bosch washer we bought when we got married. It must have had 7000-8000 washes on it. We used it every day sometimes two or three loads a day. The only problem we had is motor brushes wearing out (Which is normaly maintenance) and us frying a control panel by using too much soap which sudsed up and into the front control panel.

Bosch fixed the control panel under warranty. One more thing to keep in mind is that the WAS24460uc comes with a 1, 2 and 5 year warranty. First year all inclusive. Second year parts only. Five years on electronics. NO ONE else does that kind of warranty factory. (Not even Miele).

The AXXIS model is MADE IN GERMANY. The build quality is HIGHER.

Deutschland uber alles? No need to yell,Adolph.

It does NOT walk across the floor.

All you know is that yours does not walk across the floor.

You don't know the experiences of others.

They tend to focus on cheesy features like steam and 15 minute washes (which don't get your clothes clean).

What is cheesy to some is cool to others.

Quick washes are not meant to get soiled clothes clean.

It is meant to give very lightly worn clothes that fresh clean smell. A simple freshening.

While this tread is close to the top; what are the spin speed equivalents(WAS24460uc) for Gentle, Reduced, & Regular? There are 4 settings but I know that Max is 1200rpm. Thanks

I hope mine doesn't walk. Getting my AXXIS set this week!! Is cold water input a reality? My water heater is 25 feet away from my washer and I would like to give it a shot.

@deeageaux
You need to lighten up and stop being a racist. I merely pointed out where the units were made. It was suggested these units were made in the USA. I merely provided a definitive response.

The German built machines tend to have higher reliablity. It is not some statement that the German people are somehow superior, just that appliances built there tend to have a higher build quality. Germany has earned that reputation for most of their products.

It was asked if these units walk across the floor. I just provided a response that they do not. Why do you have your undies all up in a bundle?

Steam is a gimmick. All washers have had a rinse cycle for almost 70 years. The difference now is that these companies are saying you can CLEAN your clothes using a QUICK WASH cycle in as little as 15 minutes. That, to me, is outright fraud.

A washer should be reliable, well built and clean well. Adding in gimmicks like steam and other things people will use once and never use again is a waste of money that could go towards better build quality.

The top of the Washer market from Bosch and Miele are well built, reliable machines. They also lack many of these gimmicks (steam, 15 minute washes, etc.) yet clean very well.

Try to pull your mind out of the junk appliance stream. Once you do you will see how much of the market is really just marketing proping up junk appliances designed to be thrown away every few years.

@jseeley

Cold water can be used just fine. Don't use the ECO button, it disables the onboard water heater. All cycles use the heater to bring the water to the proper temp for the cycle. Depending on how far you are from your water heater, the onboard heater may be a benefit for you. The washer is a 220V model and the water does heat quickly and efficiently.

Got my Axxis set(WAS24460UC + WTV76100US) in the house..not installed yet. I was surprised to see how they were packaged...or the lack of packaging!! They weren't inside of boxes. Just a piece of styrofoam and cardboard capped on the top and bottom. And the whole thing covered in plastic wrap with the sides, fronts and backs exposed except for the plastic.

Do any Axxis owners remember this type of packaging?
Thanks so much.
John

Where did you buy your washer from? A lot of times the store or delivery personnel will remove the cartons from the product when it is loaded on the truck to speed up delivery & installation times. they also don't have to deal with where to put the cardboard after the install.

I got them from Sears. I ordered them on may 31 and picked them up today form the store. No delivery. All I'm wondering is if they are brand new..no refurb or return.
Thanks

How do I know I bought a brand new washer? Another thing that makes me suspicious is the water hoses where tied up loose in the tub...No plastic wrapping. And the stainless steel tub has a thick oily film
Do any previous Axxis owners remember any of this and my above 2 posts?
Greatly appreciated
John

Oh...moon1234 is correct. The Axxis' washers are made in Germany!! But the Axxis dryers, at least the WTV76100US is made in Poland.

@jseeley
When I bought my WAS24460UC washer it came with a box within a box. What you describe was the "inner" box on mine. It also had a heavy outer box as well. My guess is sears ditched the heavy outbox as it takes up extra space and really is not needed.

My hoses came inside the drum as well. I had no problem with this. I actually liked it. Less packaing to throw away. The washer made it to my house without any scratches or damage so I was happy.

The oily film you refer to is there by design. It is to protect the finish on the drum while it is sitting around waiting for a home. Just do a sanitary cycle first and it will be all gone.

You are going to like this washer! We do.

I did not buy the Bosch dryer. I bought a Siemens ultrastack condensor dryer. This was the second pair of washer/dryers we purchased. We have 7 soon to be 8 people in the house and we could not keep up with one set.

The Siemens dryer I bought was made in Germany. My main reason for buying it was that we converted our furnace room into a second laundry room. There was no vent for the dryer and I was too lazy to put one in. The condensor dryer was also a clearance from e-bay. It works well and we are pleased with it.

Siemens and Bosch units a mostly identical right down to the parts. I know, I have compared the parts list on the Bosch/Siemens repair parts website. I am sure the dryer will work just fine.

Our old Bosch dryer (the match for our dead 1.8CF bosch washer for 2000) is still working, but in storage now. It was too small and is a vented model. Maybe in the future, when we have three washer/dryer sets we can use it again. :-)

moon1234, Thanks for responding! So I guess mine are brand new after all. I was surprised that they were in such good condition with that amount of skimpy packaging. One of the Bosch reps said he got a Visions set for his mom from Sears and he said, that's the way his came as well. But thanks so much for putting some closure on the worry.

The washer/dryer is STILL not installed yet. I'm in the process of putting some new plumbing in. A new washer box with new valves. Washer water valves, due to inactivity get tight and mine started leaking. So it's a good time to get it done.
moon1234, Thanks again.
John

buffalotina, The new washers have brushless motors. I don't know the details. All I know is the motor is supposed to last a lot longer without service.

Speaking of the Axxis models... I'm 99% sure I'm going with the WAS24460UC model (instead of the WAS20160UC) for an 8-unit project I'm working on. The primary differences that I see is that the more expensive model's spin feature goes to 1,200 RPM (vs 1,000 RPM on other unit) and it has an LCD display. The $200 premium seems reasonable for the higher spin cycle (which should dry clothes better before going to the dryer - ultimately saving electricity by requiring less heat to dry the clothes) and nice LCD monitor.

But a big bonus is the energy consumption - 130 kWh/year, which happens to be less than half of what the cheaper unit consumes - 272 kWh/year. This is critical because my project is 100% solar powered and is designed to be net zero energy. The additional 142kWh/yr would require an additional 100W of solar panels just to cover the difference in energy consumption between the two units. But this bonus seems odd, considering it should use MORE energy to complete the spin cycle (higher RPMs = more energy consumption). Seeing two virtually identical units, and the one that spins 20% faster consumes HALF the energy. Can anyone make sense of this? And for all the owners of the WAS24460UC model... is the spin cycle loud? I've read a few reviews that state the noise is a bit unbearable.

moon1234, please update us on how the Bosch/Siemens ventless dryer is working out.... I was looking at buying one of those from the same vendor too (or from a local guy who was selling one for even less $) but am concerned after reading elsewhere (can't find it now) that cleaning the condenser coils can be difficult, also I don't have a drain near my dryer.

tcjohnson, the previous Bosch washer that the 24460 replaced could be hacked to spin up to 1600rpm by entering some codes on the front panel display. Wonder if that can be done with the new one too, but can't find the service/training manual for it online. The less-expensive model also had an adjustable spin speed, but set by 3 internal DIP switches with no documentation provided beyond how to set it for 1000rpm.

I just bought the 24460UC washer and have been using it this past week. So far, it is a great little machine - very quiet, cleans well. The noise from the spin cycle is not loud at all. It does not "walk" either. One other difference between the two models you mention is that this model has a quick wash cycle, so if the clothes are not heavily soiled, you can use this setting for a shorter wash cycle, which is a savings in time and energy. HTH

Hi Moon,
you are right, both Miele and BSH still resist to the "steam thing" ........... but both them just failed on the Speedy Gonzales cycle ;-)

Check the Logixx (euro siblings of the Axxis) with the Super Quick 15 cycle and Miele W5000 / W6000 series that have a Express 20 min cycle

Anyway, while Miele pricing in the USA is closer to european one (despite you haven't TOL and BOL models available as an alternative) IMHO Bosch frontloaders are way overpriced in the USA. Check it here The WAS 24422IT (699 = 883 USD) has the very same features of your WAS 24460UC ( 1449 USD) also the upper 1200 rpm model WAS 24722IT is 799 = 1010 USD

Currency converter here

...except that the WAS 24422IT can heat water to 90°C/195°F, whilst the US-model WAS 24460 tops out at 72°C/161°F. As I mentioned earlier, these can likely be hacked to raise their spin speed from 1200 to 1600rpm via service menu access, at least if the control module has been replaced (original-equipment control boards may be hardwired, not sure about this). I see nothing obvious to change the max temp though. Curious that some of the US-market Bosch Vision washers - their 70cm/27"w huge-capacity models - can heat water up to 80°C/175°F even though they're hamstrung by 115V/15A electrical requirements and thus are really slow when high temperatures are selected. Most of the Bosch 8kg-and-less washers have always ran on 220V power even in the US market. In the States, these are considered "compact size" machines suitable only for small 1 or 2 bedroom homes and are a small fraction of the laundry machine market. You don't even want to know how big our refrigerators are.

German-made stuff is alway overpriced in the US lately due to exchange rates. I bought a VW Golf recently (German-built) which is priced less than a Mexican-built Jetta since Americans expect smaller cars to be cheaper, but VW insiders tell me the Golf actually costs more to build.

I only now realized that the "UC" appended to Bosch dishwashers and laundry appliances in North America refers to "US/Canada" - I always thought it meant "undercounter". "IT" at the end means it's for the Italian market.

I finally got my new WAS24460UC running. Tell me, anyone, how much vibration during the spin is acceptable and normal? During the spin, the floor and bottom of the machine barely vibrates but the top vibrates. When I place my hand on the top of the washer, it feels like like putting your hand on a board that's being cut with a jigsaw/saber saw. I leveled it perfectly. Maybe one of the front legs needs tweaking?
Otherwise, does this sound normal?
This is a Great Machine with Great Build quality...I love it and I highly recommend it!

I am having vibration problems with the Axxis washer -so I thnk; don't know what is normal since I never owned a front load washer. I live on the 2nd floor of a condo. The subfloor is wafer board and on top of that is a gypsum sound pad. In the laundry closet which is about 31" deep by 37" wide, I poured an extra layer of mortar. The floor is solid to begin with. On top of that I put a dense rubber mat, 3/4" thick..the type you find in weight rooms...really heavy. I kept the rubber mat as the finished floor and put some rubber baseboard on top of the mat to make it look nice. I tried the Axxis washer on this floor. During washing, each time the clothes slam down to the bottom of the tank the washer wobbles a bit. And while spinning at 800rpm with a half load(perm press), it vibrates as described in my last post. Also, most loads never seem to be balanced.

I also tried a piece of 3/4 MDF fiberboard on top of the mat which I'm using now. (I sealed it with polyurethane.) The washer seemed more solid but I had the same vibrations...but not as bad. I really though this board was going to do the trick. I am so disappointed.

The washer is level, all feet are solid on the floor, and all 4 shipping bolts were removed. I'm planing on stacking this set after I make sure everything is ok with the washer.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

Here's a quick review of my Axxis Plus washer and Vented dryer. (WAS24460UC + WTV76100US) I have had these units installed, stacked with the stacking kit, for about four months so far and I am extremely happy.

The Axxis washers absorb much vibration with internal shocks so if level/solid on a hard surface, the washer should not vibrate when spinning, even when loads are slightly unbalanced. I only feel a pulsation, not much vibration. It's rare that I get a perfectly balanced
spin but like I said, the shocks make for little exterior vibration. Do not make the mistake I did originally by placing a dense rubber mat under the washer which causes vibration with these units. The rubber mat may work with other brands, but not needed here.

I have very little complaints about these units. The quality is top notch and they run like a tank. If I must say one negative thing, it's that the vented dryer does not get that hot(by design for efficiency) and dry times can be a bit longer than other dryers you have owned. BUT, with that being said, a hot dryer is not needed when used in conjunction with the Axxis Washer. The cloths come out of the washer fairly dry because of the high spin speeds! So you are saving electricity on the back end!

With the Axxis Plus, my detergent of choice is Tide Original Scent 2x HE liquid detergent. For each load, probably only a tablespoon or two is plenty. So far, I have NO moldy smells...not even close. After my last wash of the day, I use a small towel to dry the outside and inside-lip of the boot. Lots of water can sit in that inside lip. And then I ALLAYS leave the door cracked open for ventilation.

Both units are quiet. I must say, the loudest part is when the water goes down the drain! The spin cycle is high-pitched BUT NOT LOUD...there's a difference. Also, since my house water heater is like 20-25 feet from the washer, I have a Y-connector with Cold water input only. Even when you select Hot or Sanitary, the internal heater heats that relatively small volume of water up quickly.

The dryer is great as well. I have NOT had any 'balling' or tangling issues. Do not overload the dryer. Cloths must fall in the drum. Heavy Cottons(sweat shirts) and jeans must be placed on the Extra Dry cycle. And the sensor will allow the dryer cycle to finish with just some dampness in the pockets. With these dryers, I would suggest using the rigid(smooth) 4' duct.(Not the accordion type) Although I
have never had an issue, some say the dryer is sensitive to a long or slightly obstructed duct.

I called Bosch about the dryer pausing near the beginning of every cycle. I would always get two pauses. After hitting the start button, It would run for a minute, and pause for 2 seconds, run for another minute and pause again and then run normally after that. My duct is only 10 feet and clear as a bell. After having a Bosch technician come out to the house, he said that the pausing is normal. Are you guys getting the same pausing?

That's it. If you have any questions, plase do not hesitate. I know I did not cover everything. But if you are considering these units, they are awesome. Others on this forum had great things to say about these units. They are not inexpensive mainly because you are paying for quality-made 24' compact washer and dryer with a fairly large capacities. And for those of us with small spaces, these are the ones to get!

John.

Picture of my stacked Axxis units is below or click on the link! {{gwi:2002952}}

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

JSeeley I hope you get this message! How is your washer/dryer 2.5 years down the track? I'm looking at getting the exact same pair... does the dryer ball the sheets etc? Thanks for any info!

Hello, Fpmom,
Sorry for the late response. My general opinion of the set has changed. The washer/dryer are doing good- not excellent. These are my complaints:

I can't say if it balls the sheets because I take my blankets/comforters w/ sheets to the laundromat because this washer cannot handle a blanket, let along a comforter. I would even be hesitant to wash a large cotton sweatshirt or more than a couple pairs of jeans because it overloads the washer's delicate inner suspension. I never load anywhere near the washer's capacity. One should't have to baby an expensive set like this!

Also, since I had left the washer door wide open in between washes to avoid mold and smells(which I have no issue), actually both doors have sagged because of the cheap plastic and heavy weight of the glass. Now when I latch them shut, the latching mechanisms don't line up perfectly. Now I need to lift up the doors as I shut them. I don't leave the doors open too much longer after washes. I have seen other complaints too about this.

One more thing. The spin sound has changed a bit since I bought it. Because I don't live here all the time, I probably don't even have 100 washes on it, but the spin sound has gotten a bit more raspy when it reaches a certain RPM. You have the (actually quiet) smooth winning sound then when it reaches a certain speed, a slightly raspier/louder sound kicks-in. I hope this doesn't represent any issues with bearings down the road. As far as I'm concerned this set is built too cheaply for the price and they are not made to last. If I had a chance to do it over again, I would have bought the same thin-twin washer /dryer set I had before the Axxis units. I paid $800 and it lasted about 22 years. I highly doubt I'll get a third of that time without a major service call. Is that worth the price?

I really don't have that many issues with the dryer other than mentioned above except the fact that the dryer hesitates twice at the beginning of each load. I think all Axxis dryers do this though. I have no idea why.

I'm sorry if I persuaded your decision or anyone's. If you really want this set, I would look on craigslist because there are always slightly used units for sale for half the price, in my area anyway; see link below. That obviously tells you something.