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Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

Posted by izeve (My Page) on
Tue, Apr 19, 11 at 13:23

I've had an LG FL since December and I haven't run a Clean Machine cycle yet. Is that something I should be doing regularly? Am I asking for trouble by not running it? So far I've had no smell or mold issues. The washer is sparkling clean inside and smells great, no visible deposits, mold or discoloration around the rubber seal. I do 4-6 loads a week, most of them in one day, usually 2-4 warm water washes and 2 sanitary washes, always with Extra Rinse option. I use powder (Sears or Dixan) or liquid detergent (Vaska or Green Works) depending on the load. I use FS (small amounts). Because of the location of my washer in a laundry closet along a passageway to the garage I cannot keep the washer door open at all times but I do wipe off the rubber seal and leave the door and detergent drawer open overnight to dry the washer out before I close it. As I said, I've had no issues so far but after reading so many horror stories I'm concerned that if I wait until a problem develops then it may be too late??? I have to admit that I wasn't as diligent with maintaining my prior washer (Duet Sport) and had some sludgy deposits and black discolorations on the door seal. But my prior washer did not have an on board heater so I couldn't run truly hot washes and I was careless about wiping and drying it. I was also using Tide HE liquid which I have since stopped completely.

So what do you think - do I need to run the Clean Machine?


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

My last washer had a few black stains on the doors seal too. but it never really stunk. I would do a hot wash in that one every week and every few months do a hot wash with a few rags and some cascade.

Now that I have new Samsung with a heater like your LG I am not sure what I need to do. My Manual says to do a Cleaning cycle every 40 washes or when it says to do. The samsung must track it somehow. I guess I will see how long until mine asks me to do it then I will run the "pure cycle"


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

I don't understand ... why wouldn't you run a tub clean? What harm could it do? Keep your machine bacteria free.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

livebetter, 2 reasons :-) First, I don't quite believe that these Tub Clean cycles do anything. In my prior washer the Clean Machine cycle didn't seem to make any difference. In my new machine I wash 2 Sanitary loads each week, so I think it is probably bacteria free (my 2nd Sanitary is always the last load for the week). I never use the Cold cycle. Second, I hate to waste the water and energy unless it's really needed.

Curious as to what other posters do, especially people who use Hot and Sanitary on regular basis. If you do run Tub Clan, do you run it with bleach or something else?


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

I did not have a heater in my previous machine so hot was as hot as it could be with just my water heater. I rarely ran a hot wash.

To my knowledge I did not have a mold issue with 10 years of use. It certainly never smelled. I always left door open and detergent drawer.

My new Miele W4842 (as of Feb of this year) has a heater.

I have run the tub clean twice. I use Smelly Washer which I have on hand (used it the last year or two of my Frigidaire's life because I only became aware of it then). I do have bleach and wouldn't hesitate to do a tub clean with that as well.

As I posted before - it certainly can't hurt and I would like to ensure I don't develop any problems with this machine.

I can't imagine the energy and water used to run a tub clean amounts to that much?

I don't know about your machine but my Miele does an aggressive tub rotation which causes water to splash all around the drum to clean and disinfect many places.

Here is a link that might be useful: Miele - tub clean video


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

Livebetter, my hot is never really hot - warm at the most. The pipe between the water heater and my washer is about 30-40 ft. Unless I draw out the cold water from the pipes first, I never get true hot or true warm. That, plus liquid tide, plus not leaving the door open meant some smell problems with my old machine. I've changed my washing habits and I use the onboard heater on regular basis now with the new LG FL. I'm just curious if the clean tub cycle does something special.
BTW, my mom has a very simple top load horizontal axis washing machine (this is in Poland). The machine seals as tightly as a FL. Because of super limited space in her tiny apartment, she never leaves the thing open. Yet, she's never had even the slightest hint of bad smell or mold. Her machine draws cold water only and heats it up. Her washes are mostly 60 C washes with a 90 C wash from time to time for towels, linens, etc. I really think that regular boil washes (or our US best equivalent - Sanitary) do the trick.

But, I don't want to mess up either since my machine is not the European one with independent and precise temp control. If the clean tub cycle does something I cannot achieve with extra hot washes, I'd like to know that.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

I had a 9 plus yr old He3t Fl that didnt have a clean tub cycle on it. I never ean anything through it till its 9th yr of ownership, just to see if it made a difference. I used to wash a lot in warm, hot and sanitary cycle. I never wiped the seal down, left the door open to dry it out either. I always used enough detergent in it to help remove the soil out of my clothes so it would not settle back on them or in the washer. Owners manual now a days tell you to clean out the machines on a regular basis as a preventive measure. It is much easier to maintain a clean washer than it is to clean a moldy smelly one.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

Livebetter the Samsung that I have says it heats the water very hot and does something to get that water to cover the entire wash tub. I would imagine it does an aggressive agitation like the Miele does. Samsung does claim no chemicals are needed due to how how it washes in the "pure cycle"

It is easier to keep it clean than scrub out mold


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

@ izeve
That, plus liquid tide, plus not leaving the door open meant some smell problems with my old machine.
I don't think you can make a claim that liquid Tide causes smell problems. It's how you use the detergent that makes the difference. There are millions upon millions of people who are using Tide HE liquid without any issues. I noticed in your comment you did not mention HE - were you using non-HE Tide liquid? I can see how using smaller quantities of a non-HE product may cause buildup in your machine, but if you were using Tide HE at recommended amounts I can't see how that contributed to your smelly washer issue unless your machine didn't rinse properly.
I've changed my washing habits and I use the onboard heater on regular basis now with the new LG FL.
Is it possible that the lack of smell with your new machine may have to do with the on-board heater and the change of some of your other wash habits, not necessarily the detergent?


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

sshrivastava, I am not blaming Tide alone for my prior issues. BTW, I was using Tide HE liquid Free & Clear. I've had front loaders since the 1990s and never used anything but HE detergent (which back in the 90s was really hard to find!!!). I think the problem with liquid Tide HE is that it doesn't rinse well, contributing to the buildup of crud which then leads to mold and smells. I agree with you that my washing habits had a lot to do with the prior issues. I think the liquid Tide HE may have been one of the contributing factors, not necessarily the main cause. Hard to say which really made the difference (Hot/Sanitary, switching detergents, using extra rinse consistently, wiping off the seal and drying out the washer) unless I was willing to go through a process of elimination one by one. But I'm not willing to take a risk with that experiment ;-)

In any event, given my new washing habits, do you think that running Tub Clean cycle is needed? And what should I use with it (I dislike chlorine bleach and would rather not use it)?


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

I have a Miele W4842 washer, so my comments are specific to this model. Miele recommends running the self cleaning program once per month. Miele's self cleaning program requires bleach and is designed to clean all the waterways in the machine and keep it free of buildup, mold and mildew. Although I regularly wash on HOT or SANITIZE, which on my Miele is 140 F and 158 F, respectively, I still run a self cleaning cycle monthly to avoid any issues.

I understand you don't like to waste water or use chlorine bleach - I feel the same way. However, I've come to look at the self cleaning cycle and its requirements as a lesser of two evils. Once you have mold, mildew and smell you'll tear every last hair follicle from your body trying to fix it. Prevention is worth a pound of cure, so my suggestion would be to suck it up and use the self cleaning cycle to avoid even bigger problems down the road.

Look at it this way... a little water and chlorine bleach are nothing compared to the environmental damage that will be done if you need to replace your machine because of mold. Look at the self cleaning cycle as an insurance policy. Running one self clean cycle with bleach each month is not a big deal in terms of resource use. I do an average of 3 load per week. That's 13 loads per month. Adding a self clean cycle increases my load count by 7.7%. I won't lose any sleep over that.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

Thanks to all who responded. Sounds like running a Clean Machine cycle is a good insurance policy and it won't hurt to do it from time to time. I will try mine this weekend, observe how it works and report back :-) BTW, LG recommends either bleach or FL machine cleaner (Whirlout or other)- I think I will try to find a FL cleaner that is good at removing detergent/FS deposits rather than use bleach for the purpose of killing mold and bacteria because I don't think I have any mold at this point. Any recommendations?


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

I'd like to share my experience. I just recently got the Samsung 520. This is my second FL but the other one was 5 years ago. I, too, take all the precautions listed above. I also remove the detergent drawer after each use and dry in there as far as my arm will reach.

I've had this machine almost 2 months and decided to run the Pure Cycle. Samsung says no chemicals need to be used and if you do, use one tenth the recommended amount. I watched off and on throughout the entire cycle (2hrs!) and I could not believe the suds this thing was bringing up!! The water was very cloudy and sudsy. As the cycle progressed the water became clearer and by the very end the water was crystal clear and there were no suds!

So, I guess in answer to the original question... Yes, you do need to run the cleaner.

I am concerned now about whether this machine is rinsing completely. I have been experimenting with a number of detergents both liquid and powder (all "green" products). I use less than the recommended amount because we have very soft water. I think I will try using only powder until time for the next Pure Cycle and see what happens.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

whistle, WOW. Your post really did it for me - I will definitely run a Clean Tub cycle over the weekend and see if I get any suds.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

You've described likely overdose of detergent.

"I use less than the recommended amount....."

Recommended by whom? How much are you using for, say, a full load of normally soiled laundry in your machine?

"...we have very soft water."

"Soft" water is zero grains. Is that what you have?


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

my Bosch suggests a hot wash with a cup of bleach every 3 months and I did mine today. And ,like Whistle, I had a small amount of sudsing at the beginning of the cycle.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

I have had my samsung since last Tuesday and I been washing like mad in that thing. nothing is left dirty if I can get enough to wash in it goes. I tried that pure cycle and it running now. from what I seen of it this is what mine is doing. it filled with hot water swished that around as notmal for 5 minutes drained and filled again with hot. this time it filled a little more. then it began to turn the drum very fast so that it pushed the water up the top and down the other side. then it stopped and did the same in the other direction. and kept changing directions every few minutes. At on piont I think it injected some steam too but it could have been that its heating the water up so hot. Mine does about what livebetter's Miele does except it keeps the water from pooling at the bottom and keeps it going around more. the water in mine looked clear. I have just over a weeks use on mine so I don't expect it to be dirty. I didn't add bleach or anything to the washer, Samsung says it's not needed. cycle time was 2 hours. Samsung recomends it after about 40 washes and says the machine will do something after a wash cycle when it thinks its time. you have the option not to and run it later when it reminds you so you can finish you washing for the day first.

Wistle how do you have such soft water. we have softer water for this area where I live now so I use a little less. where I used to live 5 years ago the water was hard and the house had a Rain soft water softener. that made the water so soft that I had to use sometimes only a 1/3 of the detergent the labels called for. With SOftened water you can use much less product.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

Thanks, asolo, for checking in. I had pretty much come to that conclusion. It's just that it was surprising, given that I thought I was doing okay with the detergent. As a starting point, I was going by the recommendations on the bottles/boxes and using about half. Vaska, Method and Clorox Green Works all made visible suds with Method being the worst. Suds all over the door! I had already reduced those to about 1 tablespoon. But of course the stuff was already there!! After this cleaning cycle I'm going back to Bio Kleen and Sears powder. I always had better luck with powder in my Whirlpool FL years ago.

I cannot tell you the softness by grains. We installed a whole house humidifier this winter and when testing for that, it did not register any degree of hardness. Also, we have never had any problem with scale.

By the way, asolo, you helped me a while back with the vibration issue on this Samsung. I did take if off the pedestals and following your directions the machine is now rock solid on a truss flooring system.

Chloe45 and izeve keep those suds down!! LOL


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

Detergent packagers are legendary for encouraging people to use more than they need. For folks with soft water, I typically recommend starting with about 1/6 what it says on the package. Over the years it seems that most people with soft water who I've followed up with settle out at about 1/4 or so of those "recommended" amounts.

FWIW, I have a 3.8cf machine (Whirlpool 9400 about six years old) that's working fine. I use a scant 1/4 cup of Tide HE powder for a full load of "normally" soiled laundry. I get excellent results and clean rinsing.....and have from the beginning. The machine looks like it came off the showroom floor yesterday, inside and out.

From your description, I might run that "pure" cycle one more time and then start over with much lower detergent amounts than you described. Within just a few loads, I'm sure you'll have figured out how much is enough. You've already seen how much is too much.

Glad your machine is solid on your truss floor. Happy to learn I may have been helpful.

PS....Your dishwasher requires exactly the same considerations with your soft water. "Recommended" dosages of DW detergent will etch your glassware in no time.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

I'm still amazed by all of you posters who get suds with your HE detergents. I am on city water that is fairly soft(1-2 gpg according to my water company). I have a 4.2cf washing machine and for a medium full load I use 1 scoop of Sears powder detergent (the scoop that came with the detergent) or 1 cap of Vaska or 2/3 of the 1st line on the Green Works detergent cap (so generally the manufacturer recommended amounts for my load) and have ZERO suds on any wash cycle. I use the Extra Rinse option with all my cycles since both my daughter and I have eczema and I don't want make it worse by detergent residue.

In any event, I ran the Clean Tub cycle on my washer last night. I used 1/2 cup of Borax because that's what I had on hand. The cycle time is 71 minutes and the water gets sloshed around pretty well. I don't think that the onboard heater engaged in that cycle which was disappointing. The water had some suds while being violently sloshed but they quickly subsided when the drum stopped turning, and the water was basically clear. After the cycle finished, the inside of the drum which previously smelled faintly of detergent and FS now has no smell. The drum and the rubber seal looked super clean both before and after the cycle.

I really don't think that the Clean Tub cycle achieves anything on this machine. So I think I will run it every few month as a diagnostic tool and observe if I get any suds, but I will continue relying on my new improved washing habits (including regular Sanitary washes) to keep my machine clean.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

Asolo, that's a good idea to run another cycle. I will do that. I wonder if I should use a bit of bleach even though Samsung says it's not necessary. The manual says use one tenth of the recommended amount. I've never used any of the cleaner products so I'm not sure how much. Maybe 1 teaspoon? And should it go in the bleach compartment or directly into the drum? Again, asolo, thanks for all your time and help on this board.

Izeve, I guess it is amazing isn't it? If I used a cap full of Vaska, I'd meet the suds coming out the door!!! Just the difference in the water I guess.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

whistle, I am not in any way discounting your sudsing issue, but how the heck do you take a shower, wash dishes or even wash your hands with water like that? Does any soap rinse away?


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

Does anyone else find that they have massive amounts of suds when they add oxiclean?
None of the detergents I use produce any suds unless I add oxiclean and with oxiclean I will have suds that cover the glass in the door.
I'm going to order some ecover oxygen bleach . I can't find it in town and I'll see what that does.
I think its the washing soda portion (sodium carbonate) in oxiclean that is causing the excessive suds.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

I've always wanted to have this cycle on my machine simply for the "coolness" factor of it. At least the clean washer cycles I've seen fill up with a pretty good amount of water and actually SPIN with water in the drum both ways. It's pretty cool and looks like it has to be doing a much better job than a regular wash cycle would be doing.......My Duet is First generation. I maintain it and it has never smelled at all. I have sort of tricked my washer into doing a semi tub clean. I start with delicate and when it's finished filling, I pause it and then do the demo code which the drum rotate one way really fast with water in the drum.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

chloe45, I use Ecover oxygen bleach sometimes (on white hot water loads) and I think it works really well. I have no increased suds with it.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

Found this thread tonight and since I'm still having fun with my new Miele 4842 (have had them for 3 months now), I decided I would run the Clean Machine cycle.

One thing I have noticed recently is that when I do laundry I rarely have any suds at all and have actually wondered if I'm using too little detergent. Generally, when I have a full load I will use 30-40ml of Persil or a full cap of Vaska. When I've checked the laundry there are few suds on the glass.

Just now, I checked on the Clean Machine cycle (with bleach only, nothing else) and the tub is FULL of suds. I'm wondering where all that detergent has been hiding. I'm wondering if Miele includes a special "Makes Suds" compartment solely for the use of the Clean Machine cycle.

Definitely worthwhile to run this cycle!


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

@dianepatterson - I ran the Clean machine cycle a couple weeks ago, bleach only per manual, after one month of owning our W4842. I noticed the suds, too. It might be residue detergent, or ... it could be a product of all that water getting stirred up so violently.
Sometimes when high wind makes lake water choppy, I've seen foam on the waves. Might be the same principle?


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

I don't think these were choppy water suds. In fact, when the Clean Machine cycle finished, the drum was still full to the brim with suds. (Post "drain.")


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

I have only run my clean machine cycle with Smelly Washer (which is most likely a citric acid type product). I run it once a month and have not had this sudsing issue. Tub is sparkling clean when done. Maybe I should try with bleach?

I use various detergents; Persil, Vaska, Clorox Greenworks, Seventh Generation, Purex with Zout (slight addiction).


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

If I saw what you're seeing I would think to myself.....hey, there's soap in there.

Where did it come from? Either you put it in or it was residual in the laundry you just did.

Suggest running a couple loads with NO detergent or any other product added. From what you wrote, my suspicion is residual in the laundry going in. Please come back and tell us what observed. If you see bubble #1...you'll have your answer.

Suspect you have soft water. Do you?


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

I do have soft water. (Whole house water softener.) In my case, I don't think the suds were residual in the laundry, because in this particular case there was no laundry in the machine (on the Clean Machine cycle), and even when I do the laundry there are hardly any suds to speak of. (I had been thinking I needed to add more detergent.)

So I am completely baffled as to where these suds came from.

When I say it was full of suds, I mean the glass was COVERED. It looked like shaving cream in there. The Clean Machine cycle frightens me a little.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

dianepatterson, I'm wondering if you should try a citric acid cleaner like Lemi Shine or Smelly Washer? These products help to actually remove residue and build up. I assume the bleach is only killing bacteria that can feed mold.

Maybe because you have such soft water - I've read that soft water is not the best for rinsing.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

You don't have to be baffled. Experiment a little and find out. You'll be using this machine regularly for a long time. Probably a good thing to learn how it works.

Repeat: There's soap in there. Either you put it in or it was residual in the laundry you just did. Even in your "baffled" state, surely you can see that.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

@dianepatterson - If you're using a full cap of Vaska and have soft water, this may be the problem.
You may only need 1/2 capful of Vaska with your soft water. Clean Machine cycles uses a lot of water and it is churned up, so there may be Vaska residue in the far recesses, which Clean Machine reaches and a normal cycle does not. My guess,,, as I am no expert.

At our last house, we had a water softener system. I used half the recommended amount of detergent for washer and dish-washer, and everything worked great, and everything rinsed out great but those were top-load washer days.

I never see suds unless I'm using one of the cycles that has more water in the wash, like Delicates, Woolens, and such on my W4842. Then I freak out.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

FWIW....I have Duet 9400....about six years, now....for purpose of comparison and the problem you've reported, my machine is exactly like yours. I, too, have soft water.

For full (18 lbs / 3.8cf capacity) load of "normally soiled" laundry, I use 1/4 cup of Tide HE powder. (That's four tablespoons) Less for smaller loads. Usually use Downy liquid. I get clean clothes and good rinsing. (I have sensitive skin and allegies -- if there was residual detergent in my clothes, I would know it instantly.) If I run a "clean machine" cycle, I see a few bubbles on top of the water which disappear as soon as the drum stops turning.

I do about 1/2 my loads on hot (boosted to 127F) and 1/2 on warm which is 100-105F. Occasional dark loads at tap-cold which is about 80F on average where I live. Maybe twice a year run a "sanitary" load at 157F.

This was my first HE/FL machine. Although I used HE detergent and reduced the amount used per manual instructions, I still used far too much of it in the beginning. I suspect that's what you're doing. With soft water, it doesn't take much.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

@ asolo

Why are you being such a jerk? I've noticed many of your recent posts have been filled with animosity, hostility and you've become downright condescending and rude. If you have some personal issue, please deal with that and don't insult the members of this forum. Diane is simply seeking help regarding her issue and your posts ridiculing her are not helpful whatsoever. Go sit in the corner with a mirror for a while and try to figure out where all your anger is coming from - you seem to need it.

@ dianepatterson

With soft water, or if you have conditioned/softened water, it doesn't take much detergent to cause suds. In fact, it takes a very tiny amount of detergent to cause suds with agitation of soft water. Here's what the folks at Charlie's Soap said on their Facebook page:

But even with exceptional rinsing (having just a few parts per billion left) soft water will suds up. It's not anything to worry about usually, but it does look odd.
Despite what others are saying, having suds is not necessarily indicative of any "build-up" or residue issues. Even the tiniest amount of leftover rinse water with just a hint of detergent may be enough to cause suds given the tremendous agitation during the Clean Machine cycle.

Seriously, I don't think it's anything to worry about since you are already using so little detergent.

@ cavimum

I washed a 1/2 load recently with 1/2 cap of Vaska and my pillow case came out dirty. Vaska's directions state 1.5 capfuls for hard water, so the 1 capful recommendation presumes soft water. I have soft water and I can confirm that 1/2 capful is not going to be very effective.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

Yo, sshrivastava.... Comforting to know the forum has a resident psychoanalyst on staff. Your hair-trigger noted and ignored.

Said my bit. Thought might be helpful. Diane and others with the issue can decide whether or not it was.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

The "baffling" part is that when I ran the washer with clothes and detergent, there were few if any suds.

Then, when I ran the Clean Machine cycle with bleach and no detergent, there were suds galore. When it kinda might be expected to be the other way around, y'know?

Thanks for the answers.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

@ dianepatterson

The lack of suds during the main wash is most likely due to the water level. The water levels during the main wash are low and your tub is filled with clothes, so there is minimal water turbulence and splashing. However, during the Clean Machine cycle, the water level is high and there is a tremendous amount of turbulence and splashing, which is an ideal environment where suds can run amok.

I notice the same phenomenon between wash and rinse. I have enabled maximum water levels through the hidden programming menu, so I have pretty high rinse water levels. High enough to come a bit up the glass porthole. While I see few suds during the wash - so few that I wonder if there's enough detergent present - I see more suds during the rinse because of the elevated water level. Higher water levels cause splashing, which causes suds to form.

I honestly don't think you have anything to worry about. If one part per billion of detergent is enough to cause suds in soft water, it will be practically impossible to avoid. When the suds dissolve and evaporate, is any residue left behind or is the tub surface clean? As long as it's clean, you should be fine.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

No, the surface of the tub seemed pretty clean (which was odd, given how many suds were left!), so I'm assuming everything is working correctly.

I still don't know what suds level to be aiming for with my clothes (to determine the right amount of detergent to be using), but so far my clothes seem clean so I think I'm doing okay.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

FWIW....Youtube has a 2-part "clean machine" video. Part 1 referenced below. You can select part 2 at the site.

The demo shows Miele machine through complete 46-minute "clean machine" cycle. It has three fills and drains in this cycle. The first fill shows a lot of suds. Second fill shows a few. Third shows none.

Does your machine's "clean machine" cycle work like this video shows? Do the suds you're reporting show only in the first fill or in each fill of the cycle?

Here is a link that might be useful: Miele clean machine video


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

Question. Is bleach truly necessary on the Miele's CLEAN MACHINE cycle?


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

@cyberspacer - Since my W4842 owners manual says bleach, that is what I use. Most likely it kills any mold & bacteria that are starting to grow.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

@ cyberspacer

You need bleach or something similar to kill any mold and mildew that may be in your machine. Citric acid, while it can remove hard water deposits, does not sanitize. Sodium percarbonate has mild sanitizing effects, but not sufficient to kill mold and mildew.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

I assume since the clean machine setting uses santize temp. the mold/mildew would be taken care of with heat?


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

@ livebetter

Apparently not, because Miele still requires the use of bleach. Sanitize goes to 158F, and I don't think that's hot enough to kill mold and mildew. You probably need to get closer to boiling temps for that.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

>Do the suds you're reporting show only in the first fill or in each fill of the cycle?

I didn't check the machine during the entire cycle, only at the end, and now I'm a little concerned, because it was FULL of suds at the end. They definitely had not all drained away.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

OK wierd ... I was flipping to cartoons this afternoon for my kids when I noticed Dr. Oz was talking about germs.

I just happened to land on the channel when he was talking about germs in your washing machine.

Apparently, all our machines are FILLED with bacteria. Some very serious, like Ecol i and Staph. He said, "we all know where Ecol i comes from" ... ewe ....

He said it is important to run bleach through your machine once a month on the hottest cycle to kill these bacteria.

Ewe ......


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

".....now I'm a little concerned, because it was FULL of suds at the end. They definitely had not all drained away."

I think your concern is justified. Sudsing to the the degree you've described after three fill/drains (assuming your "clean machine" cycle is like the video) is significant.

As an experiment, I ran an equivalent "clean machine" cycle in my Duet yesterday. Mine is different from yours in that my "cleaning" cycle only does one fill/drain -- so I ran three of them in sequence. The first one showed a few suds....comparing to the video, less than #2 but more than #3. Second one almost nothing. Third nothing.

Very clearly you're dealing with residual soap. Don't know if that's residual in your previously-washed clothes or over-dosing with current loads, but I don't think there's much doubt about it. I'd be looking at quantity used or type used along with likely residual in existing clean laundry.

In your place, with your concerns, I'd run a second or even third "clean machine" cycle with your machine until your suds can be seen to have disappeared completely thereby making you sure the machine itself totally cleaned out of any residual. Then start again.


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PS to previous.....

When I say "start again", my suggestion would be to start with a full-load of clean previously-washed laundry. By observing amount of suds in that load, you will learn very quickly about whatever residual may be in there. Might even take a mason-jar sample of the wash-water and rinse-water for examination.

Most Important thing is to verify the machine itself is free and clear before you begin.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

@ dianepatterson

You might try running a clean machine cycle with a couple tablespoons of dishwashing powder like Cascade. If you do have any build-up, the dishwashing powder will help remove it better than using water alone.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

(I hope I do this right and get these pictures in here correctly.)

I ran the Clean Machine cycle again today, with some chlorine bleach in the dispenser. There were many fewer suds than last time, but still quite a bit.

At 16 minutes left to go:

Photobucket

And after the buzzer sounded at the end:

Photobucket

When actually washing clothes I have NO suds. (Or a few. Far less than what's on the gasket in the end of cycle pic up there.)

I will check out Cascade.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

@dianepatterson - That's a lot of suds. Seriously. My Miele doesn't do that when I run the Clean Machine cycle. I've run that cycle twice in the seven or eight weeks I've had our W4842.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

Good, clear photos....good job with that.

No question about significant residual soap in there. What you're showing is more than a vestige.

Agree with the Cascade idea....the one with enzyme in it....but not very much. Until you can see the machine itself is clear, I don't see that anything else can be learned. The machine must be purged before going further.

Is there ANY other source for this residual except what you use for your laundry or residual within the laundry itself? Have you checked the drain-filter canister to see if maybe there's a chuck of soap in there? Is there a little undiscovered chunk of bath-soap hiding in the outer drum? Is this one of those machines that measures out it's own dose of detergent from a reservoir and it's leaking?

I'm becoming annoyed at my own inability to figure it out. I do not understand the persistence of the suds you're showing us at the end of these cleaning cycles. After your several clean machine cycles, I'm suspecting an undiscovered source of replenishment.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

I don't think the 4842 has a reservoir of soap somewhere. I've never even run the machine with detergent in the Extra Soap reservoir. I use 30-40ml (one shotglass) of Persil per load , or one capful of Vaska. I've used a half scoop of OxyClean maybe twice (before I read that Persil Universal has optical brighteners).

We don't even use bath soaps in this house! So no kid has accidentally stuck a bar of Irish Spring in a load or something.

I will wipe down the gasket completely thoroughly after the second Clean Machine cycle I'm running today ends. I dumped out the suds by hand into the laundry sink before starting to run it again.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

@dianepatterson said "I use 30-40ml (one shotglass) of Persil per load , or one capful of Vaska."

With your soft water, that may be too much. Your water may be really(!) soft. I used only one full capful of Vaska on towels, with my "medium" (middle-of-the-road) hardness, and had suds galore in the rinse.

Do you know exactly how soft your water is? You may need to be using half the amount you posted.

How high do you fill the machine for a "full load"? Most of my loads are half-way up, around to where the axis is, and I usually cut back on my detergent because it's a partial load. It's really too bad the owners manual does not show us what a full/medium/small load in our tub would be. Good grief,,,, it just adds to the learning curve.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

I usually fill it about two-thirds to three-quarters of the way full. There's space at the top, but the tub is full. The clothes themselves are probably not that dirty. You said you're getting suds galore with medium hardness; with a full load of towels I get barely any suds.

Acc. to my local water company, the water in my area should be between 8.8 and 9.6 grains/gal. That's not after it goes through the water filter, though, of course.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

Going to make a suggestion.....putting myself in your place, I believe I would start from "scratch".....by which I mean I would examine the machine thoroughly and then run another "clean machine" cycle.

From what you've shown and described, I cannot believe other than that there is an undiscovered source of soap bleeding into the machine. I would be looking for a clump of powder or a piece of something similar to it or a congealed spot of liquid clinging someplace. I'd start with the detergent drawer and sluice-way. Remove it; inspect and clean it; shine a light down into the hole. Open the drain filter and verify it's clear. Put my head inside the drum with a strong flashlight and examine the sump of the outer drum through the holes. Pull back the rubber boot and inspect all around and underneath its lip.

There must be some bit of soap or some saturated item or something similar in there.

After that, regardless of what found or not found, I would run another "clean machine" cycle and observe any difference from previously. Depending on what observed, I'd run another one. Perhaps whatever's in there will rinse away with sufficient cycling. The machine doesn't care. All it knows how to do is run. The machine must be verified clean. Consideration of your dosages and laundry procedures otherwise can't begin until after that.

If you have a softener, and from the look of your photos, I suspect your household water is soft, which would be zero grains. In any event, that's not your issue at this point. The persistent suds during the "clean machine" cycle speak for themselves.

I continue to be annoyed by this. This persistence of sudsing absent any known source is a new one for me but I think the indication is clear.

I will be very interested in learning the outcome of your continuing efforts and observations.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

@ dianepatterson

I've got a hunch about what may work, and it sounds a bit crazy... If you have soap build-up, it wants something to bind to. When soap clings to your skin on a molecular level, softened water lacks the calcium or magnesium ion to pull that soap molecule away from your skin. This is why your hands feel slippery even after rinsing forever in softened water. This may also be why your drum doesn't appear to be rinsing despite running multiple cleaning cycles.

Throw half a powdered Tums tablet into your machine and run the clean machine cycle. White chalk would work as well. The Tums is nothing more than calcium carbonate, which will add hardness back to your water. Hopefully this will pull the soap out of wherever it's hiding and wash it down the drain.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

I'm surprised at what people are referring to as "large" loads in recent discussions. They don't seem large to me.

DianePatterson, chlorine bleach will generate suds. Try it. Pour some water into a jar (1/2 full or so), shake it vigorously. Then add some bleach, shake again. My well water is ~11 grains hardness, I do not have a water softener. I get no suds on plain shaken water, but there are suds with bleach and they stick around for a while. What's the specific routine of your machine cleaning cycle? How many rinses follow the bleach bath? Is there a spin at the end (seems not per how the suds are left lying in the basket)?


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

dadoes.....I was thinking the same thing earlier. Before posting I went and got a mason jar. Filled 1/2 - full with RO water (2ppm TDS; softened first, then passes through RO system; in other words, dead-soft); added tablespoon of Clorox regular; covered and shook. No suds. Added another tablespoon, then another, shaking each time. No suds. Didn't post.

If you're getting suds with yours, I'm suspecting product difference.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

Dianne...I am curious to know if the suds, in those pictures, that is left after running the clean cycle feels "slick"... like it is detergent?


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

I think it must be the brand of bleach I'm using, which is off-brand -- I just got a jar, filled it with some bleach and water, and shook really hard. Immediate suds. That makes me feel MUCH BETTER. (Well, except now I have to go buy Clorox bleach -- who knew off-brand was so different?)

Now I'm left with: am I using enough detergent with my wash? :) But I will experiment more with that to figure it out.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

Another thing to consider: I just ran my clean cycle, and it ran water through the detergent drawer. Perhaps there's residual detergent in the drawer causing the suds.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

dianepatterson....This is wonderful news!

Hey dadoes...GOOD call!

Astonished to learn this. I thought bleach was bleach. Wanting to make sure I had it right, I just repeated the experiment. Exactly same result....no suds. Repeating....Clorox Regular.

As long as you have that jar out, though, I'm going to suggest one more thing before moving ahead. Make sure the jar is absolutely clean, then fill 1/2-way with water and nothing else, then shake that. Should be no suds. This has been so aggravating, I'm just wanting to make sure there's no sudsing agent in the incoming water all by itself.

You will still have to clean that machine out, though. Run another cycle with NOTHING in there. Surely it's seen enough bleach for a while! I would expect third fill/drain clear as #3 in video.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

No, I clean out the detergent drawer every month (hasn't seemed to need it, but I do it anyhow). I only ever put detergent in in the regular receptacle, have never used the "Extra" compartment. I never use fabric softener.

I am now convinced it's the kind of bleach I'm using. I'm going to buy some Clorox and see if there's a big difference. (I'll probably run the CM cycle next month...after running it a couple of times this weekend my machine is quite clean.)


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

@dianepatterson - you still also might want to only use 1/2 capful of Vaska, given that your water is soft.

I hope you can get rid of the suds and that the new bleach will help. Please come back and let us know if the Clorox helps.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

I'm not sure if this is any help with regard to detergent dosing, but I thought I'd share... my Asko washer was a 1.75-2.0 cuft machine (DOE capacity) rated at 5.0 kg. Detergent recommendation for soft water was 1-1.5 TBS. Miele W4842 is 3.07 cuft (DOE capacity) rated at 8.0 kg. Using both kg and volume ratings, the W4842 has about 1.5-1.6x the capacity of my Asko W6761. Therefore, it's logical to assume that the Miele would require 1.5-1.6x as much detergent, right? So that would end up being 1.5-2.5 TBS depending on soiling.

Asko recommends 2-3 TBS for its XXL size washers (4.5 cuft IEC capacity compared to Miele's 4.0 cuft IEC rating).


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

I'm with everybody else. Please come back again once this issue has been put to bed and tell us how things are going.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

@ dianepatterson

I HAVE GREAT NEWS FOR YOU! You have a whole house water softener just as I do, so I decided to run the clean machine cycle and see what happens. Guess what? I have tons of suds too! I ran the cycle 10 times in the last two days and still TONS of suds towards the end. Two out of those 10 times I added 1/4 cup of Cascade Complete, which showed no suds, but then running a clean machine cycle with plain water right afterwards yielded suds! What gives?

So here's my experiment... I agitated my softened tap cold water in some tupperware and I had no suds. Oh dear, this doesn't look good... maybe I have a ton of buildup in my machine. Yikes! But the weird thing is that if I run just a rinse cycle, not clean machine cycle, I don't get any suds! WTF? Then it hit me... rinse cycles are COLD and clean machine uses HOT water and raises the temp to 158F. The water I was agitating in the tupperware was COLD. I popped it into the microwave for about 1 minute to raise the temp to scalding, then agitated again in my tupperware. Guess what happened? SUDS! But only in hot water, not cold.

Agitating softened hot water created so many bubbles and suds in the tupperware that it blew the top right off and left my kitchen counter (and me) covered in water. I repeated the experiment, this time in a tall, uncovered plastic pitcher. I shook the water violently back and forth and got the same exact suds and bubbles as in my machine.

Diane, I don't think you are experiencing residue. I think you and I both are seeing the effects of agitation on hot, softened water. Try this experiment at home, but make sure you are using scalding HOT water. You will see suds and bubbles too. Suds are not always a sign of build-up or residue, sometimes it can just be an aspect to your water chemistry.

You and I can be running the clean machine cycle until the earth freezes over, but we will still see suds. For folks with water softeners, suds in the clean machine cycle may be a false indicator. I bypassed my softener for one run of the cycle and guess what? No suds. In my case the cause is pretty clear, I hope it is in your case as well.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

sshrivastava....

"I think you and I both are seeing the effects of agitation on hot, softened water."

I disagree. I believe you have issues that you haven't been aware of until now.

Upon reading your incredible post, I repeated my own experiment so as to be able to reply directly to what you wrote. Experiment exactly as before except for using 160F water in the mason jar. (microwaved and measured) No suds. That's exactly the same as before with room-temperature water.

Repeating procedure for your convenience.......my household supply through softener (zero grains) then through RO emerging at 2ppm TDS. That's about 1/2 a hair from distilled. That's about as "soft" as it gets. Used clean Mason jar and filled 1/2 way. Shook it up cold. No suds. Heated and measured at 160F and shook that up. No suds. Reheated to 160F and added one tablespoon of Clorox Regular and shook that up. No suds. Added one, then two more tablespoons Clorox Regular and shook that up. No suds.

I think it's clear that you do, indeed, have residual soap -- or some suds-generating material -- left over in there. I don't get this stuff you make up to explain it otherwise.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

Okay, this is interesting. I may have to run this experiment again (or open a new bottle of bleach, or something), because...it turns out the bleach I was using for the CM cycle WAS Clorox. I thought it was the off-brand, because whenever I opened the cabinet I was looking at the off-brand, but only when I ran this experiment (and put the bottle of bleach behind the mason jar) did I notice which one was which.

These are the suds I got:

Photobucket

Photobucket

So the extremely Clean Machine suds were from Clorox, NOT the drugstore brand.

(For these tests, I probably did 25% Clorox and 75% water. So there's a couple fluid ounces of bleach in those jars, not just the tablespoon Asolo used.)

My family has lovingly gifted me with some extremely dirty clothing, so I think I will run the CM cycle again tomorrow. I will use the off-brand this time and see if there's a big difference.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

Very interesting. The mystery persists!!

Did you shake the jar with just water -- no bleach or anything else -- first?

This is making me nuts. I think before the night is over I'll do your 25/75 mix and report back.

This isn't making any sense at all to me.


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OK....did it your way.....

dianepatterson & sshrivastava.....

OK, here 'tis...diane's way.......

Same as before except 1 1/2 cups water; 1/2 cup Clorox Regular bleach; (that's your 25% bleach solution) heated to 165F; shaken vigorously. No suds.

At this point, about all I can say is there's something going on at your locations that isn't going on here. I continue to suspect residual something at your locations. Don't know. I'm out of gas.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

Clorox makes a bleach for HE machines? Huh? How can bleach be specific for HE?? Maybe there is something up with their regular product.

I noticed both regular and HE bleach from Clorox contains washing soda.

Is this normal for bleach or unique to Clorox?

Here is a link that might be useful: Clorox Bleach - HE


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

I am absolutely gobsmacked. I never would have guessed Clorox had all those ingredients.

As for water quality, I have an interesting story that sort of pertains to this situation. Eighteen months ago I had a sewing project where I used a water-soluble thread (on purpose). Upon finishing, the thread is supposed to dissolve when the project is wet, except it did not. It drew up and caused the project to pucker. Horribly. Ruined it. The thread developed the consistency of nylon thread. Soaked that stuff overnight in HOT water in the old TL washer. It *never* dissolved. I cut some of the thread off the spool and it never even dissolved in a cup of water---it shrank and shriveled up instead.

I took the same spool of thread, cut some off, and put it into a cup of water in the city six miles away, that has a different municipal water source, and the thread dissolved. In a couple of minutes. There is no explaining it.

So,,, I am not surprised that @asolo's Clorox & soft water don't suds up, while @'stava and @dianepatterson's do. The basic water one is dealing with can have bizarre results. Truth is often stranger than fiction.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

Point 1: There are no absolutes in the laundry environment (or the dishwashing environment). As I've said several times previously in regards to both clothes washing and dishwashing, local water conditions are a crucial and variable factor.

Point 2: Methinks folks are getting overly worked into a lather over sudsing, foaming, bubbles ... whichever. :-)

BTW, the bleach I used for my shake-the-jar-of-water-sudsing-test is Wal-Mart Great Value Rain Scent, and it's labeled HE ... which I believe is largely a marketing tool in regards to some (NOT ALL) types of products. The suds level I attained was more than DianePatterson's first picture but much less than the second picture.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

Diane....OK....one more time.....CLOROX REGULAR.

Your photo shows you're using Clorox Splashless....which is not the same product.

Suggest get yourself a bottle Clorox Regular and a bottle of distilled water. (That's as "soft" as water gets) That will put absolute control on both items in question. Put 'em together in a mason jar, shake 'em up, and tell us what you get.

Here is a link that might be useful: This one


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

Oh. Interesting. I didn't know they were separate products. I thought the "splashless" referred to the bottle design.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

You know I love you.......but I'm banging my head on the desk. : )


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Save you the trouble.........

Distilled water plus Clorox Regular plus agitation = no suds.

Dadoes and Cavimum may be on to something. Maybe incoming water quality issue at your location. Clearly there is a reactive substance someplace in your mix. Clorox Regular isn't it.

Man, I need to get a life.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

@ asolo

No, there is no build-up in my machine. As I said in my post, I get the same suds if I agitate plain soft, hot tap water in a pitcher. This has nothing to do with my machine - it's water out of the tap and right into a clean, rinsed pitcher. Same suds as in my machine. So why should I presume my machine has residual detergent build-up when I replicated the sudsing away from the machine simply by shaking a pitcher of hot water? Combined with the fact that I ran 10 CM cycles, two with a heavy dose of Cascade, I'm confident that my machine is clean as a whistle. The Miele CM cycle creates a lot of turbulence and injects a ton of air into the water, so the water in my machine is being agitated far, far more intensely than in my pitcher experiment.

I realize when you do the same thing you don't see suds, but you also don't live here in Arizona and have the same water that we do. Our water hardness varies between 15-30 degrees, but usually averages around 25. After softening, my water contains 445 mg/l of sodium carbonate or potassium carbonate, depending on what type of salt is being used to regenerate the softener. Would 445 mg/l of washing soda be enough to cause sudsing if the water is heated? Apparently.

Asolo, you have altered the parameters of my experiment by using softened water through your RO system. Your RO is removing all of the sodium carbonate produced by the ion exchange in your softener, so your experiment is not the same as mine. I did not run my water through an RO system, therefore no TDS were removed from the water in my experiment. That's a huge difference.

I'm satisfied that the issue I'm observing has everything to do with my water chemistry and absolutely nothing to do with detergent build-up. In my case the suds are a false indicator, and I bet they are in Diane's case as well.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

With respect, you assume knowledge you don't own.

I, too, live in Arizona. My water, certainly, is the same or nearly the same as yours. My experiments done with unsoftened supply, (about 9-10 grains), softened, and softened plus RO processing. Agitated with water alone, then added Clorox Regular and repeated. Same result with all, hot or cold. The latest experiment done with purchased distilled water to remove all variables. Same result. No suds.

The agitation within the sealed 1/2-ful mason jar is quite obviously much more intense than anything the washing machine is capable of.

I said "Clearly there is a reactive substance someplace in your mix." There is. May well be in the chemistry of your incoming water. Don't know. Do know that there's something in there. That's all I said.

If you get suds by agitating plain water with nothing in it, that's probably your answer. However, "plain water with nothing in it" will not produce suds. There's something in there.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

@ asolo

Where do you live? If you have 9-10 grains of hardness, you don't get the same water I do. I live in Buckeye. I measured my incoming hardness yesterday at 18 dH. That figure fluctuates up to 35 dH, but I've seen it as low as 15 dH. I have determined that in my case, it's not a build-up issue. The larger lesson here is that seeing suds in your machine does not always equate to residue or build-up. If I hadn't isolated water as the cause, I probably would have drastically reduced my detergent usage which would have led to other issues down the road.

Undoubtedly many folks jump to the wrong conclusion when they see suds. Just as you did early on when you stated that you believed this to be a residue/detergent issue, which it quite clearly is not. You based that assumption on seeing suds. You see suds at the beach, too, but the ocean is not filled with Tide! :) haha

Asolo, I also re-read one of your earlier posts and I certainly hope I'm misunderstanding your statement "I don't get this stuff you make up to explain it otherwise." I did not "make up" anything. I performed a simple experiment that illustrated that my suds are not caused by detergent build-up or residue. Where did I "make up" anything?


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

"....many folks jump to the wrong conclusion when they see suds. Just as you did early on when you stated that you believed this to be a residue/detergent issue, which it quite clearly is not."

Oh, for heavens sake sshrivastava! Look at the photograph! That isn't beach-foam! And it isn't plain, uncontaminated water after being agitated. There's something in there. I don't know why you're being so resistant to the obvious.

And I'll tell you something else: If you're saying your own household water supply sudses up like that without anything being added to it, you've got troubles that go way beyond laundry concerns. And if you say it doesn't concern you, I suggest that it should.

Regardless, this has gone on long enough IMHO. I'm done.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

FWIW, I ran a clean machine yesterday with bleach (since Dr. Oz freaked me out re: Ecoli and Staph - ewe). I usually use Smelly Washer.

Very minimal suds - hardly any.

Although when the cycle was finished the machine smelled like bleach so I ran a second clean machine with Smelly Washer.

Oh ... so clean and sparkly.

Our water is mildy hard. 8.7 Grains/Imp gallon.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

"FWIW, I ran a clean machine yesterday with bleach (since Dr. Oz freaked me out re: Ecoli and Staph - ewe). I usually use Smelly Washer."

Don't worry about them. The more you expose yourself to germs the better your body's immune system will be. And that's a good thing. IMHO we've become a society of germophobes.. Sanitize this, use this hand sanitize junk, etc. Build your natural defenses and skip most of the sanitizers.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

@itguy08, are you familiar with Ecoli and Staph?? I don't think you just "build natural defences" against them.

You did read the news about the Ecoli outbreak in Germany that has killed several people??

We're not talking about the flu here ...


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

There's a difference in ingesting large quantities of them in food and having a few weak stray ones on your clothes.

You do know you have e.coli in your body, right? It's in your GI tract.

From http://familydoctor.org/online/famdocen/home/common/digestive/disorders/242.html

"Most E. coli infections come from:

Eating undercooked ground beef (the inside is pink)
Drinking contaminated (impure) water
Drinking unpasteurized (raw) milk
Working with cattle"

Notice infected laundry is not on the list...

Staph is usually transmitted from open wounds in a public setting. Or by bad food. Or by sharing towels and such without laundering them.

Again, I wouldn't worry about it. You are exposed to all sorts of germs including E.Coli, and Staph on a daily basis. For the most part your body takes care of them. Cook your food and wash your veggies well and you will be fine.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

I'm not a germ phobe by any stretch buy I still feel better cleaning out my machine once a month with bleach. It certainly can't hurt.

And yes, I am aware of where Ecoli comes from. It obviously gets into our machines from our laundry.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

@ dianepatterson

Have you made any new discoveries in your quest to diagnose your sudsing issues? I'm also curious if you tried agitating a jar of hot, conditioned tap water? Compare the suds level when running an empty rinse cycle versus the clean machine cycle. Also, if you are seeing suds after running the cycle a few times without bleach, all of the bleach has been washed away and something else is causing the suds. I still suspect an external cause, unlikely to have anything to do with the machine or the products you put into it.

Bypass your water softener and run the cycle again without bleach. I will bet you dollars to donuts that you won't see many suds.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

Stumbled across this item while surfing this morning. Just as so many laundry mavens here are pulling their hair out about sudsing problems, here's the latest feature from Samsung....copied/pasted from their site.....the site that advertises on this forum.....on this thread:

"PowerFoam� Technology for foam you can see, clean you can feel
PowerFoam� is an exclusive Samsung technology that creates a deep-cleaning foam that�s gentle on fabrics. PowerFoam� washers fill the drum with foam � created from HE detergent, water, and air � during the wash cycle. Foam penetrates fabrics more deeply, thoroughly and up to 40 times faster* than detergent in conventional washers so you can confidently wash large and bulky loads like king-size comforters.
*Based on tests using AHAM HLW-I-2007 detergent standards."

Here is a link that might be useful: Samsung foam


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

Stupidest feature ever imagined. This machine is designed for people who must see suds to know their detergent is working. Great marketing, useless feature. The detergent market is finally producing some great low-sudsing products which now Samsung will infuse with a bazillion suds. Those who think Tide HE creates suds, wait until you try Tide in your new Samsung SudsMaker!

Diane... yoohoo... have you made any progress on figuring out the suds?


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

Before I begin each week's set of washings, I put in a small amount of water and let the machine empty it out. I do that twice. This makes sure that any residual water sitting in the washer for the past week is flushed out before I begin washing. After the last washing, I may or may not put a little water in to flush out any residual spin-dry water.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

I have a Samsung with "Power Foam" dumb I agree. But it was there. I have had FL machines for years, my older machines produce more suds than with the new Samsung. I have yet to see this magical power foam!

I use only HE powder detergents, no softener. I use Techno Fresh about every 2 weeks. I had a stinky washer and never ever want to go back to that.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

Sorry for the long absence! (Summer seems to have happened.)

I finally ran a Clean Machine cycle with the basic Clorox, not splash-less, not Clorox 2, just Clorox...

Of course, I forgot to check on the machine mid-cycle. (rolling eyes) At the end, however, when I opened the washer door, there was a just a tiny handful of suds at the back of the machine. (Not even a full cup's worth. I did not bother scooping it out.) This is significantly different than I had experienced in previous cycles! So I think it was the bleach (obviously).

Does everyone else have any suds left at the end?


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

I never have suds left at the end of a Clean Machine cycle yet, on my W4842. You may want to run it through another Clean Machine cycle, for good measure, and possibly use no or very little Clorox.

This topic has been very educational for me. I appreciate all the posts and information shared. I never have bought the "splash-less" type of Clorox --- never even paid attention to labels but fortunately I have the correct type -- and now I know that I never will buy the splash-less version.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

Should be no suds in the drum at the end.

If there are still a few bubbles observed during the last slosh, they should be so few and so dilute that they disappear into outer drum during draining leaving NOTHING observable in/on the inner drum.

It's a matter of degrees. We don't always get perfect. What you started with was really significant amount of leftovers. Apparently better, now. Still, you shouldn't have anything left at the end.


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RE: Do I need to run Clean Machine cycle regularly?

Yes, I have a very small amount of leftover suds as well.


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