divorce the hubby and get a front loader. he sounds like a control-freak. If HE doesn't do the washing, why should he tell you not to get a FL??? think about it...

If you had mold issues with your old FL, won't leave the door open and do not want one with a heater I would say a FL is not a good option for you. What about a Speed Queen top loader? Made in the USA I believe and their owners seem to like them.

"....HE FLs that kept getting covered in mold...."

"....I don't need the onboard heater...."

Umm...notice anything wrong with that statement pairing?

Get a locally-supplied brand-name FL with a built in heater. Learn your water quality soft/hard/how-hard so that you can determine appropriate dose of detergent. Read the manual and do what it says. Look inside the machine before loading to make sure the cats aren't in there.

Check your dryer vent to be sure it's clear of obstruction all the way from the machine to it's outlet.

Or, if none of that's of interest to you. Go get a Speed Queen TL. There are many high opinions about them expressed here and they're made in the USA. Use the search function.

Wow--I don't notice other people being given these types of answers.

Dave1812--I'm not asking for marriage counseling. I'm sure you don't sound controlling @ all with your statement.

Sandy16--I was explaining WHY a FL might not be a good match for me with those statements.

Aslo--NO, I DON'T notice anything wrong with that statement pairing. Why would an onboard heater help with mold because water stands in your washer when it isn't running? It was not because of the water temps I used. I rarely wash in hot water anyway. I do know my water quality & I do read the manuals. I could probably quote the manual of my current pair by heart. They sit in the cabinet right above the washer & I probably look @ them once a week. Not sure what that has to do with help picking out a new brand of W/D?
Obviously you are not a cat person.I don't understand why you feel I am so dumb I wouldn't check the washer for a cat. My concern is a cat might get in there & somehow get shut in there by another cat if they were playing.

"If none of this is of interest to me"--what does that mean?

I will look @ the Speed Queen altho I don't think they are sold locally.

Does anyone else have an idea of a brand to look @ without blasting me with these types of comments?

I cannot leave a review YET.
But, in the last two weeks, I've read enough reviews to write a large novel. Looked at every brand you can think of.
Front load, top load, side load, under load, and i think ones that load for you. LOL. At least 100 times each!
Had it narrowed down to three brands/models.
YESTERDAY, I found Speed Queen. I have no idea how or why I'd never considered them. Spent 30min bopping around on websites reading reviews.
30min later I ordered a Speed Queen washer and dryer.
It's one of the ONLY decisions I've made on this whole house remodel that I actually feel good about.

Then again, I've not tried em yet.

I have heard many, many good things about the Speed Queen top load washers. Even a large appliance store that I do business with likes them above all others, including the so called "high end" brands.

I have had the Maytag front loader in the past, and currently have the Whirlpool Duet set and have used front load washers for the past 13 years.

I am going with the Speed Queen top load set and am going to order them in a few days. To do quilts I may look into the Speed Queen front loaders, and put that in our nearby barn so it is on a concrete floor, and because I don't have room in my laundry room for two washers if I want cabinetry in there too.

The fact that your husband does not like front load washers does not make him a control freak. I didn't see anywhere in your post that stated he is forbidding you from getting them. He is entitled to his opionion, as you are.

I would suggest thinking through what types of laundry you do, what you expect out of your washer, etc. I have cats too and always worry about the open door. I would also worry if I had toddlers. I have had people accidentally close my door, or else close it because they thought "it should be".

That said, my decision to purchase a top load washer is not because of my cats or the fact that my husband has never been wild about front load washers either.I just don't like their performance for the majority of our laundry, which gets very dirty sometimes from an active lifestyle.

A front load washer is useful for bulky items like quilts and that is why I will have one in the barn. I hate the laundramat... washing my clothes in a machine used by many kinds of people is not appealing. Because of having pets, I wash my quilts frequently enough to warrant having a second washer somewhere.

Good luck with your decision making. It is not easy with so many choices out there.

tabteacher, guess u can't recognize facetiousness. good luck with your top loader purchase.

Thanks to those of you who mentioned Speed Queen. I did find a place about 20 miles away that sells them. I hope to go this weekend & check them out. Thanks again.

If I didn't have Miele's, I would probably buy Speed Queen.

Lack of hot water washing and mold/mildew and odors go hand in hand for many FL owners who complain of such. But it can happen with a closed TL as well, especially if you live in a climate that supports humid conditions.

Personally, an on-board water heater has been a revelation to my laundry routine - goodbye dingy whites! Previously, my hot could only get has hot as water from my tap, and actually not even that due to the distance from my water heater to my laundry area.

Using powdered detergent and true hot water washes keeps my machine very clean and odor free. One of my DD's will only wash her clothing in cold water delicate cycle. I really don't see how her clothing gets CLEAN, especially underwear and socks. But to each his own. I love being able to use really hot washes for towels, sheets and underclothes.

Good luck with your search. I look forward to reading what you buy and how you like it.

covingtoncat: "Using powdered detergent and true hot water washes keeps my machine very clean and odor free."

Please engage in this mental exercise. You are hand-washing some delicates. You have some powdered detergent. You wash the delicates without water with the powdered detergent. They do not get clean. Now, you add water. The powdered detergent dissolves in the water. And then, once dissolved, the powdered detergent, dissolved, becomes liquid detergent. That is what makes it work; is the only way that it will work as a detergent.

Time after time, I see people in this forum suggesting that powdered detergent is superior to liquid detergent, but powdered detergent cannot work until it is dissolved in a liquid (water). So the advice to use powdered, rather than liquid, detergent is about as relevant as suggesting that the front of the washer should face east instead of facing north, south, or west. The recommendation is superstition, not based on empirical objective results.

@herring_maven, are you aware of the composition of powder vs liquid detergents? Liquid is not merely wet powder (at least in my limited understanding of it).

I have read several times that using powder can be the cure for smelly washers.

I've attached a link that says exactly that. A UK based site written by appliance professionals.

I've also noticed some of the newer liquids contain things like silicone - I'd be curious what effect ingredients like that would have. No silicone in my Miele Care powder that I can see.

I use a liquid for most delicate washes as it just makes sense to me but I have been using powder quite regularly in my Miele machines and am very happy with it. I use liquid only for certain cycles like comforters which require it.

I personally think there very well could be validity in the claims about liquid.

Although, this is off topic to the OP original question.

To the OP:

"Why would an onboard heater help with mold"

This statement tells me you don't know much about how HE washers work and what's required to keep them clean and mold free. I've been using them for 12 years without issue.

While you might get away with no heater you definitely need to leave the door open (even slightly to let air circulate). That is just common sense.

I think that FL washers are not for you and I wish you luck in your search for a TL you like.

Here is a link that might be useful: UK Whitegoods - Smell Washing Machines

HI Herrring_maven (waving)! I guess I should have clarified: we use both powdered and liquid detergents (including both types of your suggested bio-kleen). I use powder for warm and hot whites and light colors and liquids for delicates, darks and specialty clothing (i.e. wool, silks, etc).

I exclusively used liquids FOR YEARS. I don't even know why. When I actively started researching ways to get better results with the FL Sears HE3 unit I had, hot water washes and powdered detergents were suggested. I tried several different brands and personally noticed a difference with my own laundry. This became even more obvious when I upgraded to a better FL which included an on-board heater.

YMMV.

There have been first-hand reports in past discussions from people who used liquid detergent and suffered mold/slime and odor in their washers (BOTH toploaders and frontloaders). Switching to powdered detergent, the problem was either completely eliminated or greatly reduced. Liquid detergent vs. powder dissolved in water is NOT comparable or relevant to the issue.

@ live better--We purchased our Neptune Maytag in '97 or ' 98. It had a class action suit against it as early as 2004 I believe. So I'm thinking it wasn't just me with the problems. Also I doubt the inboard heater was available @ that time as we purchased the top of the (Maytag) line.

I do only rarely wash any clothes in hot water. I do not think the onboard heater is something I need. If you are meaning I need it only to keep my washer clean, then you are right, it isn't for me.

I meant to mention too that liquid detergent can not contain a bleaching agent unlike powder which can contain sodium percarbonate. Therefore, powder would be a better choice for whites (although you can add oxygen bleach separately with your liquid).

The combination of powder detergent and my heater (on my Miele W4842) has made an improvement in my whites. I must say my whites were always pretty impressive but now ... wow.

@tabteacher, we purchased our first FL (Frigidaire Gallery Heavy Duty pair) in 2001 when we bought and renovated our home.

I do think that some early machines may have had design flaws. I also think that most new users were very unaware of how to use the new machines (me included). I think manufacturers did a TERRIBLE job of communicating that information to consumers. HE detergents were pretty scarce back then too.

I was like you last year when I was researching for new machines and was sure I didn't need the heater. I didn't have it in the Frigidaire and I was just fine (no mold and things seemed clean).

I can honestly say, now I wouldn't be without it. Especially with any type of HE machine. There is such a small amount of water used by the machine that without a heater that engages in most cycles (that's hard to find) you cannot guarantee anything warmer than luke warm.

I do not believe in mostly cold washing. I think you'll end up with issues from that. My mom was washing everything in cold for awhile then she noticed the linen closet was "smelling". We both think the sheets were not getting clean enough and over time body oil were smelling ... ewe ... she now washes sheets in HOT.

You also absolutely should run a clean machine cycle once a month of HOT water. This will clean bacteria from your machine and remove any build up of detergent residue. It will help keep you machine clean and fresh (especially if you never wash in hot).

FWIW, she also has several cats and has never worried about them in her FL washer.

If you are considering an HE TL machine, I suggest you do your homework. Some do not get very good reviews and many complaints abound re: twisting and tangling of clothes and clothes that don't get clean. The LG Waveforce seems to be one that people like. I'm not a fan at all of those machines (I don't like the way they move clothes through the drum).

Anyway, not here to convince you what to buy :)

The door of a FL does not have to be kept open wide enough for a cat to go in. I got the following tip from somebody on this forum several years ago: cut a slit into a tennis ball and prop that on the latch of the washer door. That way the door stays cracked open about an inch. That's enough to ensure that the inside can dry when not in use.

The onboard heater engages in most cycles to ensure proper water temperatures (Bosch Nexxt 500 plus). Without onboard heater, the water would get cold within the first few minutes of the cycle. The heater doesn't take that much energy since it is just being used for the wash cycle and not the rinses.

We have fairly soft water and I do a washer cleaning less than once a year. We use a variety of cycles and detergents making sure not to overdose. There is no hint of mold, mildew or any other gunk in the washer. I love the gentlesness and cleaning ability of front loaders. I only used a TL for a few years and I hated it. We are using much less water and detergent with the FL and the clothes are still coming out cleaner.

Good luck with your decision!

livebetter: "I have read several times that using powder can be the cure for smelly washers. I've attached a link that says exactly that. A UK based site written by appliance professionals."

The UK site that was linked states that the reason is that liquid detergents do not contain chlorine bleach, which is true, and that many people overdose liquid detergents, also true. The negative pregnants of those two observations are that one must use chlorine bleach to prevent one's washer from acquiring a smell, which empirically appears not to be true, and that overdosing any detergent, powdered or liquid, would cause the same problems, which almost certainly is true.

In other words, the rationale provides no support for the proposition that there is something about whether a detergent comes in powdered form or in liquid form that affects the tendency of a washer to acquire a smell. Any user can add liquid chlorine bleach to a load of laundry being washed with liquid detergent just as easily as the user can add chlorine bleach to a load of laundry being washed with powdered detergent; and any user is just as capable of capable of overdosing powdered detergent as he or she is capable of scaling back the dosage of liquid detergent.

As I have reported in this forum before, in our family we have for three-quarters of a century used only front-loading automatic washing machines, and we have never encountered a smell problem. For the first decade of that period, top-loading automatic washing machines did not exist, and for about the first two-thirds of that period, liquid laundry detergents were not generally available. We never saw any reason to convert to a new-fangled top-loading washing machine, but some time in the 1990s we did switch over to the new-fangled liquid laundry detergents.

I am unconvinced of the necessity of frequent use of chlorine bleach. Although we do have chlorine bleach in the house, we use it for laundry very very rarely. In fact, the only time that we use any bleach in our laundry is when we use percarbonate "oxygen" bleach (Ecover, 95% percarbonate, rather than paying for the inert fillers in Oxyclean) in loads of all-white laundry; there seems to be no point -- in fact it would seem to be countra-indicated -- to use bleach when washing dark colors, and we therefore regard the absence of chlorine bleach in liquid detergents eminently desirable.

And we get no smell.

herring_maven, I too used exclusively liquid for most of the life of my Frigidaire FL (10 years). I never had an issue of mold. However, I followed other protocol that may have helped keep it at bay (hard to know for sure).

I know that article says chlorine but I always found that interesting. I assumed all "for white" detergents in Europe contained oxygen bleach not chlorine bleach.

At any rate, I'm certainly not saying powder is the only way to achieve FL bliss. I can only tell you that since I switched (quite recently) to using powder 75% of the time, I'm quite happy with my laundry.

I also think Europe has it right producing one detergent for whites and one for colors.

As @dadoes points out there has also been plenty of personal experience shared on this forum of those who've had success switching. The article I linked is also written by guys who work "in the field" who see this over and over again and they seem to agree.

My point was only that your "mental exercise" was not valid (liquid detergent is not merely powder detergent wet) - and at the end of the day if people have had success switching then there is nothing wrong with them sharing that information here.

I also recall a post not too long ago from Sandy16 who said her husband was a commercial laundry chemist and he was anti-liquid. You can read at the link.

Here is a link that might be useful: Powdered or liquid detergents

The door of a FL does not have to be kept open wide enough for a cat to go in. I got the following tip from somebody on this forum several years ago: cut a slit into a tennis ball and prop that on the latch of the washer door. That way the door stays cracked open about an inch. That's enough to ensure that the inside can dry when not in use.

Great tip looser! Miele's W 48XX series also has a safety sensor that turns the washer off and unlocks the door if it senses anything moving inside the drum at the beginning of the cycle.

I've attempted to hand wash my cat before.
Now, I leave the door wide open and a handfull of treats inside.

" Why would an onboard heater help with mold because water stands in your washer when it isn't running? It was not because of the water temps I used. ***I rarely wash in hot water anyway.***"

Uh, that's exactly why you had problems with your front loader!

I have the Duet HT - it has a sanitary cycle. I have bad allergies to dust mites, so every bedding load gets washed on sanitary (luckily I can double up with the extra capacity). I have NEVER had an issue with mold, soap or any of the other issues.

If you ran at least one hot load - even following most manufacturer instructions to run an empty cycle with a cup of bleach - you probably wouldn't have a mold issue either. I'll never go back to a top loader - I didn't realize just how much top loaders beat the crap out of your clothes until I got my front loader and ended up with far less lint in the dryer.

I have not had a problem with mold in my FL and I live in the south. I only use hot temps when I have dirty whites and rarely use bleach. However, I do leave the door cracked. I love my FLs! If I were to get at TL, it would be a Speed Queen base on what I have read.

My cats must be lazy or smart. So far they have had no interest in my washers.