Not sure which F&P AquaSmart you are considering, I've got my eyes on the one with the LED and triple dispenser (model WL37T26DW2). AJ Madison currently has it for $799 plus $79 delivery (for my zip). They then offer two different $50 rebates.

Also, be sure to check with your water provider (if you have one), in my local, I'd get an additional $150 rebate from them for buying a 'water saving' machine that is on their list.

Here is a link that might be useful: F&P AquaSmart

I'm not sure which Aquasmart either! I was going to try and narrow down the Brand/Make and then get into that nitty gritty. ;-) But the LED one does sound nice!

ITA about the rebates! The Gas/Electric company and Water company both offer rebates here. But those rebates are the same for both machines/Brands. I guess Maytag is offering a $100 rebate right now, but their machines are more expensive than F&P, which is offering a $50 rebate.

Honestly, right now I'm more interested in which machine/brand fits my needs better. Once I decide that, I'll bargain hunt the heck out of it to get the best price on whatever I'm buying. ;-)

I have heard great things about the Aquasmart but I have no experience with it. Not sure if it can or cannot hold a king-sized comforter.

But my grandmother has the older-model Maytag Bravos MTW6600. She loves it and so do I!! I'm glad I got it for her! It can hold an immense amount of clothes, and gets them thoroughly cleaned and rinsed. There have been complaints about wrinkling and twisting of clothes and F51 codes but my grandmother has seen none of these issues with her machine (knock on wood!). Besides, these seem to have been issues with the older models such as the ones my grandmother has, and these models have been discontinued.

Now, the Bravos has a newer model and most of the bugs seem to have been worked out based on the rave reviews of the newer model. I would recommend the Bravos 800 series that has the built-in water heater. Same massive capacity and all the great features of the old model, but with the option of using the internal heater on every cycle. However, using the heater does increase wash time in case that is an issue for you. But in that case it is good that you have the option not to use it as well for more typical wash times. It is also pricier than the Aquasmart but Home Depot may have cheaper price on the Bravos and there is also a less-expensive 800 model that is in white (I just gave you the Lowe's link b/c I prefer them over home Depot)

Also, unless you have already, do check out the GE Harmony HE TL. I have the Harmony in my classroom and that is also a fabulous machine that can hold a massive amount of clothes. Not sure if it can or cannot hold a king-sized comforter but it does have a cycle for comforters. And many people here on this blog rave about the Harmony as well!

The best way to tell if your king-sized comforter can fit in a specific machine is to bring the comforter itself to the store and see if it fits in your choice(s) of machine. Just make sure you put a plastic bag over the comforter while placing it in any display model of machine to avoid getting any potential crud that may be in the tub of the display model machine. Hope this info helps! Let us know what you decide to purchase!!! :o)

Here is a link that might be useful: Maytag Bravos with heater at Lowe's

You might want to do a search on my postings about my Bravos 800 series. To make it short and sweet, I bought it in Dec. and found out the next week that it was not working properly. It took 2 months to get it fixed, between the parts being "on backorder", (1st they replaced the water valve, didn't fix it, then ordered control panel, still didn't work, then another valve, which did fix it), waiting on the repair people to come back. Plus I had to be the one to contact the area Whirlpool rep to get her to speed up getting the parts. At one point I was told a part was backordered till March 20th!

Now that it is fixed, hmmm.... I don't think I would buy it again. The cycles are really alot longer than I am used to, I wonder how well it really rinses, although it seems to wash really well. It does have a huge tub and you can wash a king bedspread it in without a problem. I have also had problems with the fabric softener leaving spots on my hubby's shirts and on some kakhi pants.

The dryer works well, I do use the Wrinkle control alot. The door opens to the side so it is easy to get clothes out. My previous dryer had a door that opened down. With this one, clothes want to drop out on the floor. Kinda annoying.

If you decide to get the Bravos, when it is installed, go through every cycle and make sure it gets past the first spray of water and spin where it is determining what the size of load it is. (If you get a hum, you have a problem) I didn't know that mine wasn't working right until I tried using the white cycle that required hot water. I had waited to do my whites since all I have are my DH's t shirts and underwear. I ended up getting the "LF" code which stands for "long fill" meaning that it took too long for the water to fill the level it needed to wash. Once I started having problems, I was limited to one cycle and that wasn't working all the time.

If you have problems, be aware that once you call for service, the store will not take the appliance back. I tried since it had not worked properly from the start but to no avail. Keep track of everyone you talk to and if you have to order a part, you can do it yourself and have it sent to the appliance repair company you use. If can be sent overnight UPS, if it is in stock.

If I can be of more help, let me know.

Thanks for the information, mboston. I appreciate you sharing your experiences. Everyone raves over the F&P, but then I was reading these things about smaller capacity and vibrations. Now I'm wondering if your experience is typical or not. Have you heard others with the same complaints? Or do you think you just got a lemon?

Tell me, how are the vibrations/noise level on your Bravo? This is one of the things that really interests me.

I consider the Bravos to be a higher end product than the Aquasmart, but it costs more, so the one you choose depends on whether you think the extra money is worth the extra features. I think the differences are as follows:

The Aquasmart has a plastic top and lid, that some people consider to have a "cheaper" look. Again, this is personal preference.

The Bravos has more capacity. I think it's on the order of 30% or so.

The Bravos has a dial cycle selector, which some people find more intuitive.

You can get the Bravos with a built in heater.

The matching dryer for the Aquasmart is F&P's top load stainless drum dryer, which a lot of people think is way cool.

Both spin at 1000 rpm, but the Bravos wash drum has a bigger diameter, so the actual forces squeezing out the water are higher.

The Bravos comes with a glass lid, which is either good or bad, depending on your opinion of glass lids.

Both washers are pretty much the best you can get for vibration. They are kinda like anti-front loaders in this regard.

The washer is quiet. I got an unbalanced load once - was washing a king thernal blanket and two mattress pads at once. The machine sounded wobbly and then I got the "ul" code and it stopped. I ended up taking out the mattress pads, which by the way were spun really well and just left in the blanket. No problems after that.

I guess I am used to seeing a full tub or at least water always covering the clothes and you don't get that with the Bravos. I haven't had any more problems with the softener now that I am diluting it and actually adding ore volume than before.

I wondered if my problems stemed from the fact that this is a new model and the repair guy said that it was a different water valve and different control panel than on the previous Bravos. I couldn't imagine that parts would be so hard to get unless there were others having problems. Of course I got the story that it was because they couldn't make the parts fast enough for the volume of sales for the machines. But when I raised enough fuss - magically they could find one, just not always another working one!

I did get a customer questionaire on the service aspect. I did fill it out and added as much as I could about my frustration with the whole mess. Probably won't hear back from them.

Again - good luck.

Thanks for the synopsis, Washer Man! That's exactly the kind of information I was looking for! This is the first I've heard for the F&Ps and vibration... usually that issue is not mentioned.

One question: I've seen all of this fuss about the built-in heater. What is it good for? I've never had one, so I'm not sure about the advantages?

Appliance Researcher, I missed your post last time, but wanted to say thank you. I love your idea of bringing the comforter to the store! I think I'm going to do that!

Mboston, that's great to know that the washer is quiet. Having a laundry room next to the kids' rooms means this is extra important for me. You may have a point about having the new model and parts not being available, which might have made your minor problem into a major one.

Water heating is helpful on low-water HE machines ... because of the low water use. Being that the machines take only a few gallons of water to fill, an appreciable volume of it may be cold water standing in the supply line before the hot water arrives, depending on how far the washer is located from the household water heater. If a hot or warm wash is selected, and 1/3 of the fill volume is cooler standing water in the line, the resulting temp isn't going to be very warm or hot. And even then, the mass of the clothes and the machine's parts absorb some of the heat. The wash period is also longer due to the low water use needing more/longer mechanical action, so the temp tends to cool toward the end. On-board heating (when running cycles on which it's active) maintains the temperature for more effective cleaning.

That makes a lot of sense dadoes. My laundry room won't be too close to the water heater, so I can see how that would be useful!

Just curious if you considered the GE Harmony? It also has a model with a heater. (Kenmore) Oasis is the sibling to the Bravos, built by Whirlpool, and has a heated model.

One thing though, the heater in the C/O/B siblings doesn't heat as high as some other machines and to achieve a "sanitation" level, apparently seems to require the addition of something like OxiClean.

Not really sure of your priorities and needs so it's hard to give much advice. It'd be a good idea to bring your comforter to a store and see how it fits in the machine(s) you're considering. There's a lot of threads on the C/O/Bs, F&P and the Harmony too. You might want to look them over. One is below.

Here is a link that might be useful: Whirlpool Cabrio other options for TL and Energy Star

helenbr,

Glad I could be of assistance! Good luck on your final purchase decision!!!! :o)

Cynic, I had looked at those other models, but my understanding was that the repair records on those was not so good. That was why I had narrowed my choice out of the three down to the Bravo. Also, we have quite a few Kenmore appliances, and I've never been thrilled with any of them, so the idea of getting another Kenmore just doesn't thrill me. I know, other manufacturers make them, not Sears, but it's just a mental thing. It also bugs me no end that my current Kenmore washer/dryer have indeterminable capacities, and I have spent hours on the phone just trying to get anyone who might have a clue to tell me what they are, to no avail.

Okay, I'm going to keep an open mind. Tell me why I am wrong. I'd love to hear more! Also, what kind of information (priorities, needs) do you need to give a better recommendation? Right now my first priority is He TL, with an Energy Star Tier III rating. Next is high capacity (enough to wash the King comforter) and then having low vibrations/noise.

One other thing to mention is that the Bravos is deeper from front to back than either the Kenmore, or the Aquasmart. The Aquasmart is actually the smallest washer of the three, so if your laundry room is cramped for space, you'll need to check to make sure the washer you want will fit.

helenbr
I just bought my Maytag Bravos 800 washer 3 weeks ago & I love it. It is very quiet & washes good, my white came out very white. I washed my king size quilt on it without any problem at all. I also bought the Maytag Bravos 400 dryer (since I don't want the steamer which is the bravo 800) and it really works great.

Thanks for the information, Washer man and R2ringkc! Space is not an issue (it's actually a fairly large laundry room) and I'm really leaning toward the Bravo. Now it's off to see both machines at Lowe's in person and then I'll make my final decision.

I really appreciate all of the help everyone has given!

I didn't realize Lowe's carried the AquaSmart, I thought they only had one of the other models...Would you mind posting your thoughts on each and Lowe's prices.

helenbr, I cringe that I ask this, but I assume the repair records you reference are from (shudder, cough, ACK!) Consumer Reports? If so, they're not a good reference. I'm not sure where anyone has suggested the LG made GE Harmony has repair issues and the heated model is new so there wouldn't be much out there for actual or credible repair records. The Cabrio/Oasis/Bravos (COB) units are basically the same unit contrary to what a few avid fans want to promote. According to Whirlpool, who manufactures them the Cabrio and Bravos are "built the same". Early Cabrio models had some issues and they changed the design on them. Then they brought out the Bravos. The Bravos cheerleaders claim the Bravos is "better" since they don't have those problems, but since the Cabrio has been changed, it's a silly argument. The Oasis is built to Sears specifications and usually they want some features that aren't on the standard built model. This may be something like another cycle (as on the Hettys), a .1 cf larger capacity (like on their dryers) a basket instead of a shelf on the bottom of the freezer etc. Oasis was given the heater unit first. Then they put it on the Bravos model. I'm trying to find out whether it'll be on the Cabrio soon or not. I'm torn on the net value of a heater. I get clean clothes without it, as do millions of people. And temps in the area of 150 as so many of them are, well, that's not impressive to me. And the Bravos, and assumably the Oasis too require the addition of additives for "sanitizing" in their wash so obviously the temps are borderline at best. One tip, if you have a laundry tub next to your washer, run the hot water to purge the line of cold water. Then you'll have warmer water going into the machine. Especially on low volume, it'll make a difference.

There's nothing at all "wrong" with getting the unit YOU want, that you'll be happy with and are comfortable with. I just suggest people make an educated decision and not based on a rag like CR or biased opinions. I can appreciate your thoughts on Sears. Actually I'm that way a lot myself!

As for the capacities on your current units, get the model number off it. There's a wealth of information on the internet and there might be some specifications available somewhere. The dryer I wouldn't worry about. Just use the guideline of 2x the washer capacity to get dryer size needed and you'll be fine.

One last comment. Whirlpool and Fisher & Paykel are both solid companies and built good products. You can have trouble with anything. I see far fewer complaints on the F&P than the COBs but in fairness, I think a lot of trouble is pilot error too. As long as you're willing to learn a newer technology than you're used to, you'll probably be just fine. F&P has a soft spot in my heart because of their innovation. The few moving parts, the efficient top loaders, the top load dryer, etc. True, they're a little smaller capacity but generally they're cheaper too. If you're wondering if your comforter will fit, take it to the store and put it in a machine and see how it fits. There used to be "Maytag Stores" that would literally let you try out a machine. I don't know of any option like this for F&P though.

The feature I like about the F&P Aquasmart is it can be utilized in water saving mode, or conventional. Not sure if the Bravo has this ability. Also, love the convenience of the top-loading F&P dryer.

I'm not so sure that I trust F&P's claim that the Aquasmart can be used in "conventional" mode. The reason is that a deep fill conventional top load washer uses an agitator, but the Aquasmart uses an impeller, and I don't think that an impeller will work very well when the Aquasmart is used in a "deep fill" mode.

The Bravos also has certain cycles that use more water than other cycles, but these cycles are intended only for specific types of wash loads, like sheets, towels, and bulky items.

cynic, a Sanitary cycle is useful as a "very hot" wash, even for the majority (IMO) of users who don't have a real need to sanitize. Looking at it this way, temps in the 150F-160F range are indeed impressive, compared to a normal hot wash which is limited by several factors: 1) Domestic water heater temperature, 120F if you follow safety recommendations; 2) Heat loss in the pipes; 3) Temperature drop due to heating the clothes and the machine itself; 4) Heat loss during the cycle; 5) Possible mixing of cold water with the hot, if the machine applies ATC to hot washes.

IIRC, you've stated that you've learned to do warm or hot washes, depending on the load, to get the best results. Well, the better cleaning action of hotter water doesn't stop at whatever "hot" temperature you personally use, and it certainly doesn't stop at the less-than-120F temperature available to most people without an internal heater. So I can't quite understand why you don't agree that a heater can result in cleaner washes. Sure there are all the issues about how the heater is programmed, and certainly it doesn't live up to its potential in many machines sold today (I'm glad I was able to buy the Miele). But just the ability to do a super-hot wash, for certain loads, is enough justification to buy a machine with a heater, if you can afford it. There's a big difference between washing, e.g., dish towels at normal hot vs. sanitary hot. I wonder how many people who've experienced this difference would want to go back to a heaterless machine.

This is a lot of great information, and I am really enjoying the discussion here!

Marzhere, my DH decided to go skiing today, so I was alone with the kids and not able to go to Lowe's. I'll do it next weekend, but when I do I will report as you have asked.

Since I was home alone, I decided it was driving me crazy not know the capacities of my current washer and dryer. So on a whim, I looked inside and realized that they were both basically just cylinders. I got out the measuring tape and measured the diameters and depths. I also measured the diameter of the agitator in the washer. Then I:

Converted the inches to feet.
Divided the diameters in half to get the radii. (radiuses?)
Squared the radii.
Multipled by pi.
Multiplied by the depths.

Then I subtracted the volume of the agitator from the total volume of the washer.

So what did I find out after this exercise? My dryer has a capacity of (gasp) 6.95 cubic feet. WOW! OTOH, my washer has a capacity of 2.95 cubic feet, less my approximation of .65 cubic feet for the agitator comes to net 2.30 cubic feet. Yikes! I didn't think it was nearly that small!

At least this told me that the Aquasmart should be big enough to hold that king comforter...

I have the F&P AquaSmart WL26CW2 and the conventional fill does work really well. I use it for colors (no choice) and the heavy duty cycle (HE, and traditional fill levels). The more water helps clean really dirty and muddy clothes. There is plenty of agitation with the higher water levels. I love this machine, I have had it for a year now and have done ~700 loads of wash, and no issues what so ever. Highly recommend F&P, even though their warranty is only a year now.

I am curious about cynic's observation that Fisher and Paykel is a solid company.

A few months ago I, too, was torn between the F & P washer/dryer and the Bravo units -- and I had also been planning on installing a DCS range (F & P owns DCS) in our new kitchen. Then I heard that like so many companies, F & P is having trouble locating sources of financing (see link below to their web page) and has scaled back some of their North American operations (see http://www.applianceadvisor.com/content/layoffs-very-bad-news-fisher-paykel0085 ). I understand now that there is even talk of a NZ government backed solution to their problem (see: http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/fp-too-important-ignore-says-key-54051 )

For what it's worth, I'm just an ordinary consumer with no interest or affiliation with the company past or present, but hearing this gave me pause. I know no company is ever entirely safe, but I decided not to take a chance with possible service and support problems down the road should F & P not be able to successfully resolve their financing issues.

Won't it be nice when the world economy improves and we no longer have to throw such considerations into the pro/con equation?

Wolfc70, I'm curious about your statement that you use conventional fill 'for colors (no choice)'. Does that mean that when you wash colors, the machine gives you no option except to use conventional fill?

suburbanmd, you're confused. A heater does not clean clothes better, rather it's the increased temperature of the water that can assist in cleaning clothes. It's a mistake often made by some people. I certainly know about heat loss and the like. My point was clear. 150° doesn't impress me since I can turn up my water heater, and have, and wash at 145°-150° without a heater on it! 200+° can damage a lot of fabrics and clothing so the boiling temps can only occaionally be used by the average person. My point that you miss is and was that you don't always need a heater to get a "hot" wash, especially depending on what you define as "hot". I understand you need to nearly boil clothes occasionally, but 145°-150° is very satisfactory for my cleaning needs. And I also understand some would prefer to pay $500-$1000 more to avoid turning the water heater up and down the few times you need the higher temperatures. I have better things to do with the money.

And as far as F&P being a solid company, I'm not going to argue their finances. I don't know about them. I said they're solid in that they have excellent R&D, build a solid product, build a product that the DIY people can work on and have a great reputation for helping people over the phone. I wouldn't be afraid to buy a well-built item from a company who subsequently goes bankrupt. The fact is, just because the company goes under, doesn't mean the machines will stop working! And nobody has demonstrated anything to say they might.

Cynic, just because a particular temperature of water is coming into the machine does not mean that will be the resultant wash temperature. I've found there's an immediate 10°F to 12°F drop in temperature of the water IN the machine vs. what's flowing through the supply line and fill flume due to thermal absorption by the clothes and machine parts.

Instead of choosing Warm on the washer and having its ATC function mix the temperature to whatever is the engineered target (100°F for warm), I set the water heater (tankless with electronic controls) at the temp I want, and set my Calypso at tap Hot. To get 105°F in the washer, I have to set the water heater at 116°F to 117°F. I wondered at first why my F&P mixes the incoming flow to 115°F for warm, when the service doc says 105°F is the target. Then when I measured the temp IN the machine and found it to be 105°F, I figured why they probably did that. For 150°F, the incoming flow probably would have to be 165°F ... and it wouldn't stay at 150°F for very long.

Considering this factor and the length of the wash period on most frontloaders nowadays, having an on-board heater is a tremendous advantage for heavily-soiled and sanitary hot washes.

Helenbr, according to the manual's page 20, the 'sheet', 'bulky' and 'easy iron' cycle only runs conventional (not HE). I'm assuming wolfc70 uses one of those for color loads.

Thanks Marzhere, I appreciate the info!

There is a "Colors" cycle that only washes cold + conventional. I am using it right now.

cynic, the price difference between heaterless and heater washers can be as low as a couple of hundred dollars. In the case of the Maytag Bravos (what this thread is about), it's $200 extra to step up from the glass-lid-heaterless model to the glass-lid-heater model. Even the $300 difference between the solid-lid-heaterless model to the glass-lid-heater model is not "$500-$1000".

Your method of getting very hot washes, by temporarily raising the water heater, is probably unusable by the vast majority of people who post here for advice about a new washer, for these reasons:

1) It'll only work with a non-HE washer that doesn't control the hot water temperature. In today's market, that's only the Speed Queen TL, right? It won't work in any HE washer, because the water will cool down very quickly (as dadoes also pointed out).

2) Of the people who passed the first test (i.e. bought a Speed Queen TL), how many would be willing to risk exposing their family to scalding hot water? If you have a tankless heater (probably a minority), then the exposure is relatively short, as long as you remember to turn the heater down, but it's still there. If you have a regular heater, then you're left with a tank full of dangerously hot water, until it's used up, or wastefully run down the drain.

Bottom line is, while it works for you, with your 30-year-old washer and your preferences, I don't think it's useful advice to hand out here.

Yes there are certain wash cycles that only let you do a conventional wash. This is either to protect the clothes (colors) or to help prevent tangling (sheets). It is not the traditional TL fill level, it uses just enough water to suspend the clothes so they move in a nice rollover pattern. The AquaSmart has a ton of Lifestyle choices, and like Dadoes said, the muddy clothes cycle uses lots of water to clean. I would say that 80% of my washing is done in the HE modes. Sheets and certain colors I wash in the traditional cycles.

Sounds pretty much like Cabrio/Oasis/Bravos. HE modes for standard type loads, and deeper fill modes for certain types of loads.

Dadoes - Still looking for a washer. Had the Calyso, looking at the Cabrio 6200 with agitator. Bothered by the fact it has no heater, did you find out if Cabrio is coming out with one? Have also heard the error code problems have been solved -what do you think? If no heater, are there other large toploaders with one?

The only toploaders of which I'm aware on the US market that have water heaters are: Maytag Neptune TL (no longer available), GE Harmony, Kenmore Oasis, Maytag Bravos.

I doubt you'll see a water heater in an agitator-type washer -- too much water to heat with a relatively low-wattage heater.

I looked at my local Lowes, they only had one F&P washer on display. Unfortunately, it wasn't the AquaSmart. The guy did say they could order it, but he couldn't tell me how much they are.

Marzhere, I went to Lowe's yesterday. As you found, my local Lowe's did not carry the Aquasmart, although they did carry one F&P model. Lowe's had the Maytag Bravos, but they were the 400s instead of the 800s. Best Buy didn't carry either model, but Home Depot had the 700s.

All in all, it was a disappointing shopping day.

helenbr,
I don't know where you are located at but here in Kansas City we have Nebraska Furniture Mart & that's where I bought my Bravos.

Thanks r2ringkc, but I'm in California. I don't think we have Nebraska Furniture Mart. I'm trying to see if Sears might carry them.

I purchased the Bravos series 800 machines a few weeks ago. I am VERY happy with the performance.Wash times are long, but the clothes are cleaner than I have ever acheived before. The large capacity even enabled me to wash the slip cover of my very large white sofa. It came out perfectly. I highly recommend this machine.

However, an HE model machine is a new world. You'll have to learn about the machine, how much detergent etc., all over again. Takes a little practice, no matter which machine you by.

helenbr, I am the grateful owner of a Maytag Bravos - not the current 800 series, but the 6700 model (and 6400 dryer, non-steam).

Cynic and I will have to agree to disagree, because I really do think the Bravos is better than the Cabrio and Oasis. My opinion is based on three main sources: 1) people I know, both IRL and online who've owned them; 2) appliance repairmen; and 3) Consumer Reports and other online sources.

Maytags are now built with commercial parts so perhaps that makes a difference. All I know is, I've read and heard many more complaints from Cabrio/Oasis owners than I have from Bravos owners.

I've had my Bravos pair for almost a year, and I do recommend them. I studied my washer manual thoroughly before using it for the first time because I had always owned conventional TL's and wanted to be sure I used it properly.

Thus far, I've had ZERO problems. I love the huge capacity, I love being able to wash virtually everything in my house w/o having to go to a laundromat, I love it that I can now wash 3-5 loads of laundry a week whereas I used to wash 10-12 loads per week (big family). I haven't had ANY problems with wrinkling/tangling, mold/mildew (which is common in FL washers), etc.

It does seem to me that the Bravos is built more solidly than the FP washers, plus they look small to me.

I bought my Bravos set at Home Depot. Have you checked websites online to save you a lot of driving? I checked Lowe's, Sears, HD, and other websites to compare prices, warranty info, delivery info, etc, before I decided where to buy.

Another advantage of checking their websites is being able to read the reviews which were written by owners.

HTH! :-)

I forgot to say, I haven't had any problems at all with noise or vibration. My w/d set is in a laundry room off the kitchen, not on a 2nd floor.

The Maytag slogan about "commercial parts" only applies to certain models. The Maytag Bravos and the Whirlpool Cabrio are virtually identical in terms of actual hardware. There may be slight progrmming differences, but the pumps, and direct drive motor are all the same. Most of the components are the same used in the F&P models. I think the F&P design is what helps make them durable, few moving parts, and parts can be changed very easily. The only big differences between the C/O/B models and the F&P is the pumps and tub size. The F&P uses one pump to drain and recirculate the water. The C/O/B models use two seperate pumps for the tasks. The F&P is 3.7 CU FT and the C/O/B are 4.5 CU FT.

Once you get over the new learning curve of the HE TL machines, they are very user friendly machines and do an excellent job of cleaning.

OP, I looked at both the Bravos and the F&P Aquasmart at Pacific Sales today, if you have one of those near you (I"m in CA too). After visiting the store, that was what I was down too, I was so glad to see that you started this thread! I think I'm going to spring for the Bravos...I like the steam in the dryer (and that it is hooked up to water and I don't have to add it) and the capacity looks huge. GL

OK. So I'm coming really late to this thread.

We just replaced a pair of 30 year old Maytags. We're not in a water-challenged area, so water use was not an issue over the years... and I was able to keep doing surgery to keep them going. But they finally died of old age. And the newer technology is just so much more convienient and fast.

We looked at the Aquasmart, Cabrio and Bravo. We bought the Bravo.

I too have been a technology fan of F&P. But the plastic lid and cheap button panel that deflects when you push on it were serious turnoffs. As to the lid, there is nowhere to set anything. No flat surface when the lid is open. The appliance guy said the washers have been rock solid, but the driers have been problematic.

As to the Cabrio and Bravo. I'm willing to accept that the basic guts are identical and that there is no significant difference. But we did have several design differences that pushed us to the Bravo.

The drier door latch design is different. The Maytag is much easier to open and close. We tried several on the floor and it truly is a difference, not a sample thing.

The Maytag has a slight recess on the top so if you spill a little of something it won't run down the front or sides.

The Whirlpool drier lint screen is accessed from the top rather than from inside the door. and it is HUGE. Like a lint screen snake! We liked the Maytag design.