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Miele W4840 Flaw

Posted by cyberspacer (My Page) on
Wed, Feb 23, 11 at 13:59

I just started a load and inadvertently left the detergent drawer open. I'm glad I noticed a few seconds afterwards because I would have had a flood on my hands. Water runs out of the detergent drawer if it is left open. I have another Miele laundry set (a W1215) and I know this doesn't occur. I use a friends LG when visiting and I know you can leave the drawer open too with water leaking out. Seems like an issue Miele really needs to address. Not sure if the issue was corrected in the newer version of this machine. Any W4842 owners know about this?


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Miele W4840 Flaw

Opps.. I meant to say that water DOES NOT leak out of the LG.


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RE: Miele W4840 Flaw

Go ahead and remove the drawer entirely. Now, look up at the cavity from underneath. You will see the water jets used to flush the compartments clean when activated. Depending on how much you left the drawer open there is high probability that a series of those jets will engage and spray atop an open drawer flooding your laundry room; especially the softener compartment that has the only lid, and slots for the jets.

About the only thing that Miele could do is add an additional switch that would not allow the washer to function unless fully closed. More cost, and a future failure point that could disable washing when least desired should said switch fail.


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RE: Miele W4840 Flaw

My first Frigidaire FL machine disabled the machine if the drawer wasn't closed all the way. Nice saftey feature when the wash fill is hot water.

Malcolm


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RE: Miele W4840 Flaw

I don't see this as a flaw. The water that's fed into the detergent drawer exits out the back. If you pull the drawer forward, you also pull forward where the water comes out. Pull it far enough forward and the water will basically drain onto the front of your machine. I think it's safe to assume that you shouldn't be using this machine with the detergent drawer open or missing. Common sense.


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RE: Miele W4840 Flaw

I must disagree with you sshrivastava. If Miele (and other manufacturers) can produce a machine with detergent drawer dispensers that don't allow for gushing water in the open position, then they certainly can re-engineer the design for the W4800 series to do the same. What happened to immer besser. I can remember to keep the drawer shut, but when you pay a premium for "the best" something like this should not be happening at all.

I would not think that you would have to overly complicate the engineering by having a cut off switch if the draw is pulled out as mrb stated about her/his Frigidaire. That would certainly add to costs and possible malfunctions.

Rather duplicate the drawer system used in their "European" units. To me, that is common sense and certainly adds value to Miele's claims of superior engineering.

Leaving a detergent drawer open on a washing machine should not be a potential cause of disastrous conditions, e.g. flood or water damage to the owner's home.

I don't know how Miele missed this one.


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RE: Miele W4840 Flaw

Perhaps we should get the OP's description of "open" before we say it's Miele's fault?


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RE: Miele W4840 Flaw

My car has a similar flaw. If you put it in 'D' and get out of the car, it will drive off without the driver. There should be an interlock so that the car does not move unless the driver is seated and the door is closed.


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RE: Miele W4840 Flaw

Like a coffeemaker without a mid-brew stop mechanism under the basket, this sounds more like a missing feature than a flaw. I've opened the dispenser cup of my 4842 during a fill with no problems, but I assume it would overflow eventually. Of course my expectations about the so-called best center on results not process.


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RE: Miele W4840 Flaw

@Weedmeister....

BMW has solved your problem. On the models that have the electronic "joystick" gear lever...if you open the door while the car is moving, BAM!!! The car aggressively slams the gear in Park. It is very violent, and you can tell BMW engineers really wanted to convey their message. So, at least BMW has "helped" us with this issue!! :)


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RE: Miele W4840 Flaw

Wow, I can't believe the sarcasm here. I thought the point of this forum was to exchange information and ideas constructively.

As I stated before, a simple thing like not closing the drawer should not result in damage to the owner's home or the machine itself. It could also create a potential shock situation. Miele's European machines and I'm sure other washing machines (perhaps other brands owner's can chime in here) such as the LG do not have this flaw.

For whatever it's worth, I removed the drawer completely to see why this is happening. The reason is the dam/channel at the bottom of the outer casing of this dispensing device is not deep nor tall enough to prevent the overflowing water. It is obvious from this empirical observation that the dam/channel was designed for that very reason; however it needs to be taller and deeper to retain the water in the sump/drain in order to do what it was designed to do in the first place.

I, too, love this brand and their products, but they are not infallible and do have their shortcomings. I sense blind loyalty to the brand on this website; however if the Miele company is constant pursuit of being forever better consumers need to share this information so that Miele can continue the tradition of "immer besser."

I would still like to know if this was corrected in the W4842 or if this is still an issue that needs to be resolved in their next release of the super large washers. W4842 owners, please chime in.


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RE: Miele W4840 Flaw

I don't believe a deeper channel is achievable owed to the constraints of the drum's suspension and necessary clearance for gyroscopic forces.

Miele Dispenser


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RE: Miele W4840 Flaw

I find the sarcasm good contrast to the hyperbole.


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RE: Miele W4840 Flaw

As I said earlier, I don't see this as a flaw - I've had other machines that did this too. Would it be nice to add another feature to prevent this from happening? Sure. But I'm sure Miele works like many other large companies to prioritize features within the product cycle. Compared to features like child entrapment, I'm sure the detergent drawer didn't rate highly.

Fortunately there's a very easy solution.. Don't run your machine with an open detergent drawer. Who keeps their detergent drawer open while washing anyway? That's like driving out of the gas station with the hose still attached. The best way to avoid it from happening is to not do it in the first place.

This reminds me of that old adage... You can't fix stupid. No offense to the OP, I mean this more as a general comment .


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RE: Miele W4840 Flaw

My previous Frigidaire drawer had a locking mechanism. You had to slide a switch over to open the drawer and when closed it kept it from being opened. If it was opened water stopped flowing in to the dispenser.

I never really thought about it but I guess that's a nice to have.

My new Miele does not have that. I did notice immediately that it was different from previous but so far no problems. As long as kids don't open it accidentally I can't see it being an issue for me.

I did notice that the Miele drawer does not necessarily stay all the way in though - not thrilled about that. Is mine faulty? I notice it sometimes pops out slightly. I suppose if it locked into place that couldn't happen.

Yes - there is some serious Miele love by owners on this forum - almost like protective Mama/Papa Bears (LOL).

I'm really loving my Miele but not sure I've reached that place yet - maybe another month or two ;)


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RE: Miele W4840 Flaw

@livebetter... my detergent drawer does not pop out, it is very firmly in place when I push it in. You may want to check the orange clip towards the rear right of the drawer to make sure it's seated and working properly.


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RE: Miele W4840 Flaw

farenheit, I think you misunderstood me. If I knew how to post a picture like you did, I would take one of my W1215 and one of my W4840 with their detergent drawers removed and the water running. This would clearly show what's happening. The redesign would be minimal. Perhaps I can email to you directly and you can post.


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RE: Miele W4840 Flaw

I suppose everyone is entitled to their opinion. I don't see this as hyperbole or stupidity. The fact is s&*t happens when consumers use their appliances either through user error or mishap or bad design.

Manufacturers have traditionally corrected or modified their designs to prevent issues and improve functionality. Something as simple as forgetting to close a detergent drawer should not result is dire consequences to the user. If I had not noticed the open drawer and left the room, there would have been an entire's wash cycles water all over my wood floors and nearby rugs. Disaster. Tell me again this is hyperbole. Don't Miele washers and dishwashers have built-in sensors/mechanisms to prevent leaking?? They do, so evidently The Miele Co. recognizes the importance of "waterproofing" these products. Except the goofed on the W4840.

Why is this a flaw? Because it was certainly an oversight on Miele Co. 's part. Their other machines (the 5 and 6 kilo) don't spew water out of the detergent drawer. "You can't fix stupid." Hmmm. Not nice. Just because someone inadvertently forgets to close their drawer does not make them stupid.
I just hope they correct this flaw for their upcoming units.

And to all W4800 series owners, don't forget to close your drawers or you know what's gonna happen.

Enough said. We all need to get a life now.

TTFN.


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RE: Miele W4840 Flaw

cyberspacer, I agree with you. It's particularly bad if water runs out when the detergent drawer is completely removed. It's not at all far-fetched for someone to start the machine with the drawer completely missing. After all, sometimes people do forget to put in detergent before starting a load.


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RE: Miele W4840 Flaw

Sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen. It is just like a toddler to pull the drawer open cause it is right at the level only to be scalded.

Remember, the only reason TL machines have a lid switch that stops all action is because a lawsuit scenario exists otherwise.

Malcolm


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RE: Miele W4840 Flaw

Malcolm,

You could say the same for every front-loader on the market as a toddler could easily push buttons and open doors too. No wonder Europeans believe we're half-mad with it comes to lawsuits.


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RE: Miele W4840 Flaw

Blind loyalty should be taken with a grain of salt. Recent bizarre posts in the laundry section about the holocaust or the evil machine/detergent manufacturer conspiracy indicate typical opinions, beliefs and passions on the Internet. Godwin's Law holds even for that.

I do think GW has a higher than normal ratio of good observers and curious minds who share their knowledge. Disagreement about debatable points like design flaws seems pretty standard on the site and should be encouraged - including challenging illogical loyalists and those who have unreasonable expectations.

Don't suppose that everyone gets an opinion. They do and the best comments here reflect that.

The last post reminded me why "Caution! Contents are hot!!" is printed on every coffee cup in America. To some it's obvious info but it doesn't make the scald less painful.


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RE: Miele W4840 Flaw

Cyberspacer,

Here are two photographs exhibiting the detergent/softener assemblies. Since Miele has designed the machine to be water resistance on the exterior (e.g., the control panel) an area of where they could install switches in the current layout would be in either of the two pin receiver holes. This way it will help ensure hiding the switch and prevent accidentally activating the switch. What is of more interest to me is whether Miele initially provided for a switch like this in the machine's firmware. Something we will likely never learn unless there is a hacker here who wants to delve into such mundane, but informative endeavors.

Image

Image


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RE: Miele W4840 Flaw

Hm, Miele used to have manual child-locks on their dispenser drawers. Very similar to the ones used on their dishwashers. I'll see if the models we have on the floor still have them. I remember my grandma always using the locking feature so no one (kids) would pour in extra detergent or whatever while the machine was running. BTW: the 24" models don't leak water - maybe during the softening fill due to the lid on the compartment, not sure.

Alex


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RE: Miele W4840 Flaw

Nope, none of the models we carry has the lock feature any more - bummer. I never realized they took it off.


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RE: Miele W4840 Flaw

I'm a little surprised the machine doesn't sense a lack of water and shut off.


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RE: Miele W4840 Flaw

It was designed exactly how it was intended to be. Shut the door idiots. The only flaws were a few select retards Miele sold this machine to. Load detergent, shut door, start machine, move on with your life... and don't be so dumb about it. I bet you still use bleach on your whites ohhhh Christ ???


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RE: Miele W4840 Flaw

Farenheit, I don't think it would be necessary to over-engineer this. In your photograph here you can see the detergent dispenser opening. If look toward the front you will see a channel that is kind of in a v-shape (the darker beige plastic). At the bottom of the "v" the channel connects to the perpendicular (front to back) channel that directs water toward the back of this unit and drains the water into the wash tub. The problem with the W4840 is that the "v-shaped" channel formed into the plastic is not deep enough to retain the force of the incoming water. It also seems that the "v" is flatter on the W1215 giving the channel added water retention ability.

The same channel architecture exists in the Miele W1215, but the channel is deep enough to keep the water from overflowing. Thus Miele has already been doing this, but somehow screwed up on the W4840s.

All Miele needs to do is to form a deeper channel in future versions of their big US sized machines. Simple enough, and not having to create switches and such would keep manufacturing costs down.

I hope this is clear.

Image

Overflow on W4840

w4840overflow

W1215 OK. Slight splashing prevented when draw inserted.

W1215OK


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RE: Miele W4840 Flaw

mieleforme,

You might want to cut back on the Miele Kool-Aid, you've clearly over indulged. It is just an appliance after all.


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RE: Miele W4840 Flaw

'BMW has solved your problem. On the models that have the electronic "joystick" gear lever...if you open the door while the car is moving, BAM!!! The car aggressively slams the gear in Park. It is very violent, and you can tell BMW engineers really wanted to convey their message. So, at least BMW has "helped" us with this issue!! :)'

I must say I recently purchased a BMW and discovered this "feature" accidentally while backing out of the garage. Unfortunately I couldn't figure out why it wouldn't let me get out of the garage, had to call the dealer service dept for help! Was a bit annoyed at BMW engineering for being such a nanny!


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RE: Miele W4840 Flaw

Ditto, caryscott.


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RE: Miele W4840 Flaw

I just received a brand new Miele 4802 to replace one in which the circuit board blew within 18 months. I had an extended warranty through my dealer. They supposedly could not get the part and replaced the machine. The new machine -same model- has a problem with the drawer. It starts to creep open during the Main cycle. If I do not push it back in, it will remain full of water. It has not leaked out of the machine - yet. This never happened with the old machine. Any ideas?


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RE: Miele W4840 Flaw

@aqmodra, I had the same problem with my new W4842 (as did a friend who received a new W4840 right after me).

I called Miele in and they replaced the orange "clip" in the drawer (that holds the drawer in place). Problem completely fixed. He said he has seen several of these clip problems - maybe there was a faulty batch?

He could feel the problem immediately as the drawer did not hold securely when pushed in. Now it is solid when closed.

Make them come switch it out.


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RE: Miele W4840 Flaw

@ aqmodra

Instead of scheduling a service call for this little thing, try asking MIele to just send you the part. Most of the time they will just send you the part and you can pop it in by yourself. A small tab is an easy thing.


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RE: Miele W4840 Flaw

@livebetter - I have noticed that my detergent drawer is sometimes slightly open by the end of a wash cycle. It's pushed out slightly less than 1/4 inch (5cm) and it generally happens with a HOT wash, but it does not happen every time. I probably need to call and have this checked.

- - -

As for the water running out (re: OP), eh, it's a design flaw, end of story. It happens. I once had a first generation Volvo XC70 wagon that had terrible design flaw with it's roof rack; completely useless accessory, but I digress. When it rained heavily and the door or window opened, rain poured right in. Discovered it at a McDonald's drive-in during a downpour. Just by looking at it, I could see where the design flaw existed. Dealer replaced the roof rack to the Euro style and it never happened again. The replacement rack was also utilitarian, which was nice.


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RE: Miele W4840 Flaw

@cavimum, it was night and day when he replaced that tiny orange clip. Mine used to pop out slightly sometimes too (not specific to temp). Now it sits snug as a bug - no movemement.


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RE: Miele W4840 Flaw

@livebetter - is that the orange clip on the left, just inside the soap tray, that is used to open the lint trap door on the bottom right? I could probably take it in to my dealer and swap it out, if that's the one.


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RE: Miele W4840 Flaw

@cavimum, no - this one on the right in the prewash compartment. This is what holds the drawer in.

Photobucket


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RE: Miele W4840 Flaw

My current W4842 (which was replaced, since the first one had rubber boot issues and some other oddities) used to pop out as well. Miele came out, and also replaced that orange clip that sits in the "Heavy Wash" prewash tray & they also replaced the little door mechansim that is way in the back of the soap tray area (tray must be removed to see and feel it; it's a little door that swings open.).

Since replacing these 2 items, my soap tray stays tight during ALL cycles, including Sanitize or super long cycles. Just call Miele. They are great to deal with!!


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RE: Miele W4840 Flaw

@livebetter - Thank you for the picture. I know exactly which clip that is now - I use it to remove the soap dispenser after every wash, so the whole business --- inside and out --- can dry out. (Our laundry room doesn't have the best air circulation and this is such an easy step to prevent mold in that area.)


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RE: Miele W4840 Flaw

I just got a Miele IntellQ 100 which I am told is a 4802. I've had it for a month and when the service guy installed it and started it up the dispenser drawer shot out an inch or so. He said this was normal. On every load it would do this seemingly when it loaded with water. If I didn't watch it and close it each time I would have water dripping down the front of the machine at the end of the cycle so I decided to call to see if it could be repaired. The soap compartment would also be full of water at the end of the cycle. The repairman simply removed the spring on the little door that lifts at the back of the dispenser. You have to remove the dispenser to see it. Problem solved!


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