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Optical brighteners......

Posted by bookert (My Page) on
Mon, Jan 3, 11 at 20:04

Hello all,

Does anyone happen to have a list of laundry detergents, powdered and liquid, that DON'T have optical brighteners in their ingredients??
Our family wears lots of dark colored and black clothing and I can't tell which detergent is the culprit for fading...I currently use about 4 different brands and sadly don't want to "test" them out for fear of more fading to some that have not be affected yet! arg....

I will use those I have that do contain the O.B. for white and light colored items as I have no complaints with performance.

One of my favorite powdered detergents is still the Mexican Lirio w/aloe vera. I love the scent! Much better and mild compared to Ariel that I use for heavy soiled items.
It sadly contains O.B. so I've stopped using it for darks just in case.
I still haven't splurged on Persil, maybe one day...

Thanks so much to anyone who can help! =)


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Optical brighteners......

Google was my friend and popped up two Web sites when I typed "detergents without optical brighteners". Apparently you don't want to use OBs when washing military uniforms. So here is the one link and here is the other.


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RE: Optical brighteners...... (additional)

A couple of notes: both of those sources seem to date back a few years, so formulations may have changed. I'd check the manufacturer's Web site to verify that they haven't changed your "detergent of interest" since these lists were published.

I also didn't see the names of the "natural" detergents you can buy at co-ops, health-food stores, etc. I'm pretty sure Seventh Generation does not contain OBs, and it seems likely to me that others share in leaving them out.


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RE: Optical brighteners......

I too prefer to wash my dark colors in non-optical brightener detergent.

I'm pretty sure I've posted this before ... Hanna Anderson suggests that washing your "Hannas" in non OBA detergent is best. This is what they say,

News about detergents!
Most detergents now contain optical brighteners; while these keep white laundry brighter, they can change or fade your clothing after washing, or even cause matching hannas to no longer match. We�ve found that our colors stay fresher using optical brightener-free products such as 7th Generation, Kirkland Signature Environmentally Friendly Laundry Detergent (Costco), Ecover, Bi-O-Kleen (Vancouver WA), Surf Powder, Cheer Powder, Planet Detergents, Alma Win Organic Cleanut Detergent, Moon-Works, Rockin�-Green Detergent, Charlie�s Soap, and Claudia�s Choices Ultra.

Good luck!

Here is a link that might be useful: Hanna Care Instructions


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RE: Optical brighteners .....

PS. Seventh Generation publishes interesting info re: optical brighteners.

Cara Bondi, Research Chemist at Seventh Generation explains what optical brighteners are and why Seventh Generation doesn't use them: a real clean shouldn't be an optical illusion.

Optical brighteners are synthetic chemicals that make fabrics appear to glow in the presence of ultraviolet light. They don't have anything to do with getting things clean -- they're only added to detergents to make us think our laundry is brighter and whiter than it really is.

Designed to intentionally remain behind on our clothes and linens, optical brighteners rub off on our skin where they can cause a reaction that looks like sunburn.

They're no fun for the environment either. Optical brighteners washed down our drains frequently survive wastewater treatment and escape into our lakes, rivers, and streams. Once there, they don't completely biodegrade and instead accumulate in fish.

Optical brighteners are chemicals that make fabrics seem brighter or whiter than they are. They remain behind on clean laundry as a coating of microscopic fluorescent particles. When invisible ultraviolet light hits these particles, they convert it into visible light to create an optical illusion that tricks the eye into thinking our clothes are super clean.

Many optical brighteners are derived from benzene, a very toxic compound. In addition, these chemicals generally don't break down in the environment and remain in the waters they're washed into, where they poison fish and other aquatic life. Optical brighteners can also cause allergic reactions in people via a process called phototoxicity. When they rub off on our skin from laundered clothes and come into contact with sunlight, they can create a rash or irritation that's mistaken for sunburn.

Here is a link that might be useful: Seventh Generation - Say No to the Glow


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RE: Optical brighteners......

Thanks to all, I knew I could count on you!
steve o,
sometimes my mind goes blank when I want to google something. Thanks for your posts!

livebetter,
I now remember your post, but couldn't recall it before I decided to post my question! =)

The more info I can get the better, this time maybe I'll write it down since my memory isn't what it used to be! arg... It can take me hours to get the info some of you retain! =)


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RE: Optical brighteners......

Clorox Green Works (original, unscented and lavender) are all optical brightener free! They're he compatible too, but do not use too much, it is kind of sudsy, but does rinse quite well. It's gentle and has enzymes that seem to really handle stains well. Along with my Persil and Vaska, I keep Clorox Green Works in my stash!

Does anyone know if Persil Color Gel has optical brightener? I do not know what the technical name for OBs are. Persil lists actual chemical names, not what consumers call them


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RE: Optical brighteners......

I wear alot of black and have been using Woolite Extra Dark Care. It works very well. I'm always surprised at how "dark" my clothes look after washing, almost like new.


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RE: Optical brighteners......

Well I went to Target yesterday....
Surf and Cheer powder both contained brightening agents.
Does this equate to optical brighteners?
I took it as such.

For me, I'm not a fan of Woolite. Maybe the new Dark Care formula is reformulated? Is it sudsy like the original?
Does it contain brighteners?

Like larsi, I'd be interested to see if Persil has any variety(s) without it.

Thanks for your feedback!


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Persil and optical brighteners

livebetter,

I ran across your old post listing the Persil ingredients for the color gel. O.B.'s added....arg..
The link you provided for further info didn't work for me, do you still have access to it?
Thanks!


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RE: Optical brighteners......

I was told by Henkel in Germany that the German versions for color do not contain OBAs. Other formulations for other countries (ie. Poland) do contain OBAs (even color formulas).

You can go to link and search by product name. I search country: Germany language: German (since we are buying the German versions here).

This is what I found for Persil Color Gel (German):

Persil COLOR-GEL
� AQUA (WATER)
� SODIUM DODECYLBENZENESULFONATE
� C12-18 FATTY ALCOHOL 7 EO
� PROPYLENE GLYCOL
� SODIUM SOAP C12-18
� SODIUM CITRATE
� ALCOHOL
� SODIUM LAURETH SULFATE
� PERFUME
� SODIUM METABORATE
� ACRYLPOLYMER MIT C16-18-ALKYLETHER~
� HEPTASODIUM DTPMP
� VINYLPYRROLIDONE/VINYLIMIDAZOLE COPOLYMER
� SORBITOL
� BUTYLPHENYL METHYLPROPIONAL
� LIMONENE
� HEXYL CINNAMAL
� BENZYL SALICYLATE
� PROTEASE
� AMYL CINNAMAL
� ALPHA-ISOMETHYL IONONE
� EUGENOL
� LINALOOL
� AMYLASE
� LIPASE
� CELLULASE
� COLORANT
� MANNANASE
� SODIUM BENZOATE

This is what I found for Persil Megaperls Color (German):

Persil Megaperls Color
� ZEOLITE
� SODIUM DODECYLBENZENESULFONATE
� AQUA (WATER)
� SODIUM LAURYL SULFATE
� SODIUM CITRATE
� C12-18 FATTY ALCOHOL 7 EO
� CITRIC ACID
� SODIUM BICARBONATE
� SODIUM CARBONATE
� SODIUM SULFATE
� SODIUM ACRYLIC ACID/MA COPOLYMER
� SULFONATED POLYETHYLENE TEREPHTHALATE
� PEG-80
� CELLULOSE GUM
� TETRASODIUM ETIDRONATE
� ZEA MAYS (CORN) STARCH
� SODIUM SOAP C16-18
� PERFUME
� CORN FLOUR
� SODIUM HYDROXIDE
� SODIUM CHLORIDE
� VINYLPYRROLIDONE/VINYLIMIDAZOLE COPOLYMER
� PVP
� SODIUM GLYCOLATE
� HYDRATED SILICA
� PEG-14M
� PROTEASE
� HEXYL CINNAMAL
� LINALOOL
� BENZYL SALICYLATE
� AMYLASE
� CELLULASE
� MANNANASE
� LIPASE
� COLORANT

As opposed to ... Univeral Gel (German):

Persil Universal-Gel

� AQUA (WATER)
� SODIUM DODECYLBENZENESULFONATE
� C12-18 FATTY ALCOHOL 7 EO
� PROPYLENE GLYCOL
� SODIUM SOAP C12-18
� SODIUM CITRATE
� ALCOHOL
� SODIUM LAURETH SULFATE
� SODIUM METABORATE
� ACRYLIC ACID COPOLYMER
� PARFUM
� HEPTASODIUM DTPMP
� POLYPROPYLENE TEREPHTHALATE
� SORBITOL
� OPTICAL BRIGHTNER
� LIMONENE
� HEXYL CINNAMAL
� BENZYL SALICYLATE
� PROTEASE
� MEK
� AMYL CINNAMAL
� ALPHA-ISOMETHYL IONONE
� EUGENOL
� LINALOOL
� AMYLASE
� CELLULASE
� LIPASE
� MANNANASE
� COLORANT

and ... Universal Megaperls (German):

Persil Universal-Megaperls
� ZEOLITE
� SODIUM CARBONATE PEROXIDE
� SODIUM DODECYLBENZENESULFONATE
� TAED
� AQUA (WATER)
� SODIUM LAURYL SULFATE
� SODIUM CARBONATE
� C12-18 FATTY ALCOHOL 7 EO
� SODIUM SULFATE
� SODIUM CITRATE
� SODIUM ACRYLIC ACID/MA COPOLYMER
� CELLULOSE GUM
� SULFONATED POLYETHYLENE TEREPHTHALATE
� PEG-80
� ZEA MAYS (CORN) STARCH
� TETRASODIUM ETIDRONATE
� SODIUM SOAP C16-18
� PERFUME
� CORN FLOUR
� HEPTASODIUM DTPMP
� PARAFFIN
� SODIUM CHLORIDE
� C12-18 FATTY ALCOHOL 5 EO
� SODIUM HYDROXIDE
� OPTICAL BRIGHTNER
� SODIUM GLYCOLATE
� PEG-14M
� COLORANT
� PROTEASE
� HEXYL CINNAMAL
� LINALOOL
� BENZYL SALICYLATE
� LIPASE
� AMYLASE
� CELLULASE
� MANNANASE

For anyone who wants to know ... this is what I found for Persil Sensitive Gel (German):

Persil SENSITIVE GEL
� AQUA
� BENZOLSULFONS�URE, C10-13-ALKYLDERIVATE, NATRIUMSALZE
� FETTALKOHOLETHOXYLAT C12-18 7EO
� PROPYLENE GLYCOL
� FETTS�UREN, C12-18-, NATRIUMSALZE
� SODIUM CITRATE
� SODIUM LAURETH SULFATE
� NATRIUMMETABORAT, WASSERFREI
� HEPTANATRIUMTRIHYDROGEN[[BIS[2-
[BIS(PHOSPHONATOMETHYL)AMINO]ETHYL]AMINO]METHYL]PHOSPHONAT
� ALCOHOL
� ACRYLPOLYMER MIT C16-18-ALKYLETHER~
� PARFUM
� STYRENE/ACRYLATES COPOLYMER
� OPTICAL BRIGHTNER
� AMYLASE
� MANNANASE TYP MANNAWAY
� CELLULASE

and Megaperls Sensitive:

Persil Megaperls Sensitive
� ZEOLITE
� SODIUM CARBONATE PEROXIDE
� SODIUM BICARBONATE
� SODIUM DODECYLBENZENESULFONATE
� AQUA (WATER)
� TAED
� SODIUM LAURYL SULFATE
� C12-18 FATTY ALCOHOL 7 EO
� SODIUM SULFATE
� SODIUM CARBONATE
� SODIUM CITRATE
� SODIUM ACRYLIC ACID/MA COPOLYMER
� CELLULOSE GUM
� PEG-80
� ZEA MAYS (CORN) STARCH
� TETRASODIUM ETIDRONATE
� SODIUM SOAP C12-18
� SODIUM SOAP C16-18
� PARAFFIN
� CORN FLOUR
� C12-18 FATTY ALCOHOL 5 EO
� PERFUME
� SODIUM CHLORIDE
� SULFONATED POLYETHYLENE TEREPHTHALATE
� SODIUM HYDROXIDE
� OPTICAL BRIGHTNER
� SODIUM GLYCOLATE
� PEG-14M
� COLORANT
� PROTEASE
� AMYLASE
� CELLULASE

Here is a link that might be useful: Henkel Ingredients


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RE: Optical brighteners ......

Sorry about that post ... it converted all my bullets ... argh ...


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RE: Optical brighteners......

Larsi, I was surprised GreenWorks does not have OBAs. I checked on line and you're right. It doesn't say anything on the bottle (that I could see).

What scent do you use? Do you find it soft or stronger?

I did not see an ingredient like sodium citrate though? I wonder if another ingredient does the same thing. Darn, wish I had a chemistry degree :)

Here is a link that might be useful: Green Works ingredients


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RE: Optical brighteners......

@livebetter

I use the Original Scent and the Lavender scent. I actually like both. The Original scent is a tad stronger and you can smell it a little more after drying that the lavender scent. If you like faint scents, I would try the lavender. Although the Original Scent is natural based, and very clean, herbal and fresh. I actually really like Clorox Green Works!


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RE: Optical brighteners......

Rats!
Re today's posting that Cheer powder now has "brightening agents" listed on the carton. I knew that newly designed box was a bad sign. I will be very unhappy to find that they have started adding OBAs to Cheer Powder.

L.


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RE: Optical brighteners......

Hi All - you know reading through this thread I got to thinking, this just begs the question of "are the soap/detergent manufacturers adding OB to make us think our HE machines are cleaning our clothes better than what they are?"

We have all read or even participated in the "My FL doesn't use enough water/FL's are meant to clean w/less water etc" discussions.

I'd be curious to know how many here who "swear" that FL are the absolute best, use a detergent w/o OB and conversely how many who complain about their new FL not using enough water or not cleaning well have only used natural detergents w/o OB.

I have a FL Danby 7 yo and before that the original Neptune FL. I often think my machine could use a bit more water.

Now we see all of these top load HE machines hitting the market and they do use more water than the FL does. Wonder if it's any coincidence that the market is moving that direction to a degree?

I'd love to hear you thoughts on this.


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RE: Optical brighteners......

Saying that "my FL doesn't use enough water" doesn't mean the machine isn't cleaning. Sometimes perception and reality can be two very different things. You are using false logic here. How does one equate to the other? Also, you appear to be painting with a very broad stroke. Who is having cleaning issues with their FL? I read very, very few cases of that here on Garden web.


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RE: Optical brighteners......

Sshrivastava - I don't read it a lot either, but people do post things like that. Like I said it was just something that came to mind. I've used FL for over 15 years and I'm happy with the way mine have cleaned and I've used several types of detergents. However, I'm going to be needing a new one very soon, so in going through the search function to see what others are liking now, I've come across those threads with those complaints. I'd buy another Danby if I could, but they don't make them anymore.

I didn't say nor did I mean to come across as saying that less water mean less clean. I went back and re-read what I wrote and I can see how it could sound that way even though I used "or" However, I have seen that complaint together on threads here and I've just seen the question asked "how can it possibly get my clothes cleaned w/so little water" New FL owners struggle with that concept to a degree. Not ALL FL owners, but some.

It was just something that popped into my mind. I didn't mean to come across that I was overly concerned about the amount of water, I just noted that sometimes I think it could be helpful for one of my loads. Also sometimes it is the complaint of new FL owners that don't have experience and complain about the water level and/or cleaning. There is a thread on here that is very recent about a Samsung owner who is double washing their clothes to get them clean. That one comes to mind along w/others.

I'm not trying to paint with a broad brush on anything, I'm just asking the question if there is a coincidence.

I just know that years ago, I didn't find detergents w/optical brighteners. If all washers are getting people clothes clean despite being FL, traditional TL or HE TL, then what is the point of the brighteners? However, if consumers are making complaint whether on this forum or other review venues, then maybe the soap manufacturer were trying to "help" the machine manufacturers by giving people the illusion that their clothes were brighter for whatever reason. Maybe to make it easier for the manufacturers to continue to become more and more stringent on how much water each machine uses and how cold they can make the water temps and still call them "hot".

I also know that I have read that the water level in the US are lower than the water levels across the pond. The available temps are also different.

I can go on Miele's website and I can find a machine, that if I were in the UK I could buy and boil my wash, but that same machine isn't available here.

What I don't know and I hope someone from the UK will chime in about is the detergent situation. I know in some place they can use phosphates that are not allowed here. Do they also have OB in their detergents? or is the US trying to sub one in to replace what they had to remove.

Just some random thoughts. I know you've been around the forum for quite some time as have I. I don't always post, but it's been at least 8 years because it was before I bought my Danby and did so because of this forum. After reading for years, sometimes these thoughts come up.

If someone wants to discuss fine, I'm not trying to start a fight, just trying to start some discussion.


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RE: Optical brighteners......

livebetter,

Just to clarify.... if I buy online will I get the non O.B. version of the Megaperls Color powder?

The information you provided was excellent by the way, thanks!


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RE: Optical brighteners......

bookert, I just read on another post where you say you are smell sensitive. I find Persil very strong smelling (others do too but some others love it). Just letting you know. When I do use it I use the Sensitive version which does contain OBAs but smells much milder.

If you order Megaperls, those will be German so the color version would not contain OBAs.

Hope that helps.


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RE: Optical brighteners......

I have a box of Cheer Bright Clean Powder-Fresh Scent. It just says "Ingredients Include biodegradable surfactants and Enzymes."

A phone Rep. for Cheer told me that the liquids contain brighteners but the powder formulas did not, although that has been quite some time ago.

I will call and check this out again later in the coming week.


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RE: Optical brighteners......

I'll be waiting to hear about the Cheer. I hope they haven't added brighteners to the powder.


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RE: Optical brighteners......

The military is the best place to look at they prohibit optical brighteners for their uniforms (Has to do with night vision, etc.)

Here is one site for the military on which detergents do not contain them. However the site is a few years old. You might want to call your local army office and they will be able to provide you with an updated list of which detergents DO NOT contain optical brighteners.

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.armystudyguide.com/content/army_board_study_guide_topics/uniforms/laundry-detergents-for-use-with-the-acu-army-combat-uniform.shtml


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RE: Optical brighteners......

www.pinstripesandpolkadots.com/detergentchoices.htm

I found this site that gives a long list of detergents with and without optical brighteners.
I did a cut and copy for the link, it doesn't look right, but I tried!

livebetter,
yes, I'm sensitive to Tide, Cheer, Gain and Ariel scents, but hoped that the Persil wouldn't be as offensive to me.


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RE: Optical brighteners......

I called Cheer today and asked the guy which Cheer has optical brighteners. He said all of the Cheer Liquids have brighteners but the Cheer Powder, both regular and Free/Gentle, have NO brighteners.

I then asked if the Bright Clean liquid really produces noticeable results and he said Yes. He said they do test and show them the results and that it was a noticeable difference.

Then I asked how did this compare to Tide's cleaning. He said "Well Tide is our premium product but the Cheer does a great job also". He then said "If you have hard water Cheer actually is better than Tide because it has more ingredients to handle hard water minerals better than Tide".

So, as far as needing no brighteners,the powder is fine.


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RE: Optical brighteners......

Thanks, Sparky, for getting this info for us. Good to know. I've used both the Cheer liquid and the powder and I like them both.


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RE: Optical brighteners......

Cheer does not offer an HE powder here in Canada.


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RE: Optical brighteners......

The only HE Cheer is liquid only, although the powder seems to be low sudsing too,just not labeled HE.


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RE: Optical brighteners......

So then, Cheer does not offer a non OBA version for HE.


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RE: Optical brighteners......

No,just non-HE without OBA's.(Powder)

I don't believe Cheer ever had an HE powder before,not that I can remember.


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RE: Optical brighteners......

Tide Total Care does not contain OBAs but does contain enzymes. This would make an excellent detergent for dark colors.


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RE: Optical brighteners......

Where did you get that info re: TTC and OBAs? According to the Tide Cdn site it does contain Fluorescent Brightener(Disodium Diaminostilbene Disulfonate).

I know this, because I checked a while ago. I thought it strange that a detergent for protecting colors would contain it (unlike Woolite Complete which I ended up using instead).

Here is a link that might be useful: Tide Total Care - ingredients


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RE: Optical brighteners......

@ livebetter

How strange - the US Tide web site does not list a fluorescent brightener in the ingredients:

http://www.tide.com/en-US/product/tide-total-care-he.jspx#ingredients

Either the US site is wrong compared to the Canadian site, or P&G has a different formula in Canada.


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RE: Optical brighteners......

I suspect the US website is wrong.

They also do not list a brightener on the Free HE Coldwater formula but when I emailed them they said it was an error and it does contain OBAs.

In fact, here is the email message where she states the only P&G product without OBAs is Cheer powder.

"Thanks for contacting Tide.

I do apologize for any confusion but Tide Coldwater Free HE does contain optical brighteners. The only detergent that P&G manufactures that does not contain optical brighteners is Cheer Powder."


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RE: Optical brighteners......

@'stava - we can't trust what any of the web sites say. Proctor & Gamble's web site says tide Total Care HE liquid has:

soildisodium diaminostilbene disulfonate -brightener
disodium distyrylbiphenyl disulfonate - brightener

Even the Cheer for Darks lists OBAs in their ingredients.

And you're right, the tide.com site does not list it at all. It's crazy.

Here is a link that might be useful: P&G site


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RE: Optical brighteners......

HOW FRUSTRATING! We can barely get laundry machine manufacturers to accurately identify the features of their machines, and laundry detergent makers can't even get a simple list of ingredients straight. I love how there is no corporate responsibility for anything anymore. We have de-regulation to thank for all of this. That or the fact that their web sites are being updated by outsourced 3rd world slave labor for $5 per day.

The chickens are coming home to roost...


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RE: Optical brighteners......

sshrivastava, unfortunately, the real reason that appliance and detergent manufacturers are unable to answer questions accurately or produce informative manuals is that the general public in the US is not interested in these things. Most people want a washer and detergent that will "clean" their laundry in 30 minutes, and dry the load in the same amount of time. They really don't care if the water is heated or not, if the detergent residue is rinsed out or not or if the detergent has OBs or not. All they want is for their laundry to be magically cleaner looking and smelling "fresh". In my mind, it is the average consumer who drives the level of information and service available. In other words, we get what we deserve. And I'm saying "we" in the general sense, not we as posters on this board. This is the only place where I have met people who care about their appliances and cleaning products enough to research and agonize over smallest details ;-)


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RE: Optical brighteners......

@ izeve

You're right. I'm definitely in the minority of people who actually wants to know what's contained in the products we use and upon which we depend.


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