I'm still planting here in Kansas. The last few years, I've found bargains real late in the season, and so ended up planting waaaaay into Jan. and Feb. Everything grew, but I still had daffodils blooming in the middle of June! The blooms didn't last nearly as long, and luckily we didn't have tremendous heat by then, but I still think it's worth it to go ahead and plant them, no matter how late. Our ground wasn't frozen when I planted. We didn't have 2 feet of snow to dig through, either! You have my sympathy out there in Colorado. Cindi

Some good comments by everyone. Hman, while I agree with some of what you're saying in principle, I may differ on some of the specifics. Namely, I'm not certain Amish ground is all that more productive than those that farm conventionally. I know you live where there are a lot of Amish folk, and they have a reputation of being outstanding farmers, but I wonder if their reputation exceeds its worth. The reason I say that is that although I've no experience with the Amish, I do have experience with the Mennonites. They too, have a reputation as very good farmers. Indeed most have a strong work ethic. However, I used to examine their production records (pig farmers) and while, on average their production was above the mean, it was only slightly so. That improvement seemed to be dependent upon cheap labor (their large bunches of children). In the whole scope of things I'm not sure that agricultural model is the best for the planet (meaning the huge volume of people already on the planet). But like I say, I've little knowledge of the Amish, and even less of their specific farming practices. I will say that there are commercial corn growers getting over 300 bushel/acre, which is very productive indeed. One may think that kind of production is burning out the ground, but it doesn't appear to be so. I've seen some of that good corn ground in IL. It's been farmed for decades and decades, and still the richest looking black stuff you ever saw. I think part of the key is that the land was flat, so in the years where tillage farming was the rule, none of that good stuff was ever washed away. Probably the biggest threat to it is urban encroachment gobbling up that prime land. Keepitlow, Well said. However, I might take issue with the the part that our food quality has declined. This is pretty hard to discuss objectively though, because the word "quality" is so subjective. Additionally, it also depends on what years are being discussed. I'm just about through reading a different kind of American history book. It's the first book of it's kind that I've read. Most history books examine the "important" events of history (i.e. Revolutionary war, Civil war, etc.) and spend little time discussing the day to day lives of ordinary citizens. This book is the opposite. It's spends almost all of it's time discussing daily life, and ignores the "major" events. What I'm coming away with reading this book, is the profound struggle to survive before, and during the early part of the industrial age. This idea of southern plantations with abundance, defining the way of life was not the reality for the most folk. Before the modern industrial age the average American life span was amazingly low, largely due to inadequate and poor food quality. Even in somewhat later times, the food quality has seemed to improve. I remember hearing former U.S. Secretary of Agriculture Earl Butz speak. He gave examples of how food quality had increased since he was a kid (no worms in cereal, no worms in apples). I once read Upton Sinclair's book "The Jungle" about the meat packing industry in the early 1900s (actually I didn't finish it, it made me too sad. I may go back and finish it some day). Anyway, that book described conditions of meat packing as so bad, that reportedly Roosevelt was reading the book at his breakfast, and spit a mouthful of sausage across the table. From that book came the rigorous meat packing inspections we have today. This is getting a little long. Better stop here.

Pesky, I totally agree about the quality of our animal products. It doesn't stop with them though. Grains are said to also not be what our ancestors ate, not good at all these days, even eliminate. Fruits and vegetables have had a lot of their taste and nutrition bred out of them in favor of long shelf life and other more marketable qualities. But I agree, the hormones, antibiotics, living conditions are wretched -- at least lower your intake of the bad stuff. It's just shameful what has happened to our food. But they probably didn't realize it at the time. What really gets me is these natural/organic companies that advertise healthy foods but load them with things like cane sugar. I lump Whole Foods into that group. Soy and corn are other spoiled and contaminated food sources that turn up in so many processed things. I read all labels and try not to buy any of those -- unless I'm desperate for something to eat! Grass-fed beef and organic chicken is easily accessible here, as well as eggs, dairy and other products. At Whole Foods their meats do not have antibiotics or hormones and pasture fed is available (maybe not all types of meat). But gads, that organic cheese I was looking at, the only one available, was $32 per pound. Ain't gonna happen, lol. But I don't eat cheese or dairy often. Organic chicken and grass fed beef is expensive, running about $8 pound for both as I recall -- that would be chicken breast and ground beef. A lot when you can get the regular chicken for something like $3. I have read the GF beef is as healthy as fish. Sure hope, but it unfortunately doesn't have all the flavor grain fed does. So sometimes I just want a disgustingly unhealthy burger! This post was edited by snookums2 on Wed, Nov 20, 13 at 21:18

Lisa--so amazed you did it, and so proud of you for doing it! And am so thrilled it was good for you. I've had two other friends who did it, as well. Very rewarding for both, just to know. One of the friends and her family bonded and see each other. Wasn't as good an experience for the other, but she was grateful that she knew about it all, finally. The deer incident affected me more than I thought it would. First, the reality of it and how to handle it. How sad it was to see this creature in such distress. And how problematic it seemed to wonder about the appropriate way to deal with it. It's like we live in the country, with all the critters around us; and yet we live in the country with neighbors very near to us, save for the forest directly across the front of our immediate property and behind our immediate property. GDW felt strange, walking across the street and shooting the poor thing in view of whoever might be driving by or outside. I felt a little freaked when I went out to help him load her into the truck, and two vehicles drove by about that time. I don't think they saw the deer, who was in a bit of a ditch right next to the road, but I felt kind of like a criminal. Had push come to shove, we'd have felt fine about our actions had we been asked to explain. I suggested we call the game wardens, but GDW said the chances of them being able to come right out were slim; so that's when we loaded her into the truck to go to the burn pile. As it stands now, she is still in back of the truck; we will unload her tomorrow nearby, with the nice game warden's blessing. He said I might be surprised to know how many calls they get like ours. And he told me to thank my husband for him, in choosing to put her out of her suffering. And here was poor Garry, with one eye swollen shut! He waves it off, and any of the rest of us might, too. But he is definity hampered temporarily. Now if he was going to be like that from now on, he'd get used to it. We've been laughing about it today; I found myself thinking, "Let's see; if I lose an eye, which one would I prefer to lose. Definitely my left one." hahaha I've been loving binge-watching Anthony Bourdain's Parts Unknown series, connecting with people all around the world through food. I had only caught 2-3 of the shows when I had TV. Liked them, but not the way I do now. Eileen, it's your fault. How little I knew about Singapore! And now I know a LOT about that supercity/super country. (AND my new favorite, Asian foods and learning to fix them!) And it sort of lit me on fire with how little I know of other cultures. I won't be doing any traveling (not any more than necessary now), but I will travel through books and excellent documentaries. I am absolutely blown away by these journeys of Bourdain's, and the care and attention that team took, to present important and worthy shows that illustrate societies around the world and our commonality. And the sadness many of the countries have gone through, might even be going through now, and the buoyancy and resiliency of the people. And how he manages to bond/communicate with them in these episodes, and also to introduce the rest of us to these people all around the world, a bit of their history, and the common love of food. Great show, glad I finally am watching it all. And so with this great Asian way of cooking, it has ignited and changed to some extent, the way I want to grow veggies. I see a lot more greens in the future. Sigh. I hate salad. BUT when I watch or read about Asian cooking, greens look good and fun! LOL Thanks, Eileen. It's a little late to be planting some of what I want to, but have gone out on a limb with a few. But will be putting in a few more greens tomorrow. I got my garlic order in to SESE before they ran out; I got my coral honeysuckle order into Almost Eden (I had it in the cart and just remembered yesterday that I hadn't punched "Order.") So did that. And you guys know how it goes. Couldn't order JUST one thing, so also ordered some rainbow-kinda colored echinacea--a couple of them. That was because my present grown-from-seed ones have done so splendidly. I was so so ticked off today pulling Bermuda out of the front shop bed and the back Bermuda bed. I hate Bermuda. I'd rather have mud or dirt in our "lawn," or crabgrass, than Bermuda. YES, it's fairly easy to get out with my Hori Hori, but it's every brutal inch or two, and in the front bed today, some of it was 10 inches down. Thing is with those two beds, I didn't properly prep them in the first place and work to get it all out. Hmm. On the other hand, the soil is so much better now and deep enough, and loose enough, that it's easier to get out. So. I guess it's okay. My concern is the established plants. I may end up having to take them all out, just to get all the Bermuda. I hate Bermuda. Will sign off. Life is fragile, we must remember to appreciate every single day, even Bermuda grass days. Maybe especially Bermuda grass days. We're dealing with it, we're fixing it, inch by slow inch! And so far, I'm digging it up faster than it can grow . Diligence will produce victory.