Prayers!

Sorry... I can't even think or look at that mess. I think people of the media who have been reporting (really inciting more violence with the attention) should be held accountable somehow. MY opinion is that if we (the audience) refused to have our TV news channels on 24/7, what would be the point of "acting out". EVERYONE knew how this would play out......yet, there, the mass of public audience sat.... soaking up every opinion, argument, every point of view for months. We also KNEW the riots would follow. Rome and the bloodlust just continue.

Most of those rioters don't even live in Ferguson. They're just hoodlums waiting to loot and burn like it's a party.

I believe that the resulting violence would've happened even if the verdict were different. As Dorothy said, hoodlums waiting to loot and burn. Stupid.

Actually, Dorothy_Oahu, last night's arrests of 61 people only included TWO not from Ferguson.

I'm sorry this happened. It's so unfortunate for everyone concerned.

I agree with nanny. The media is just over the top in the Ferguson coverage, CNN being the WORST! Reporters standing in the path of the police and tear gas is ridiculous. They overdid it on the Malaysian plane that disappeared with hours and hours of talk when there was nothing to say, they've overdone it with ebola, and now this. I realize these are gravely serious issues, but it causes public panic and anxiety to just have inane, monotonous coverage endlessly.

I watched TV yesterday to see how Ferguson came out, but now I'm blocking any radio/newspaper/tv coverage.

Media Madness!!! Disgusting and such a waste of time!

I whole heartily agree with you all about the media...We did watch last night for the outcome but that's it! I guess it's hard for me to understand what some of the people in Ferguson are going through but, the law is the law, whether they think it's right or not....When did it become OK to go into a store and take what you want???

I feel for the parents...Having just lost a son myself, no parent should go through that...Having said that, maybe the parents should really search deep inside and understand how this happened....

My son worked from an early age, put himself through college and held a responsible job and lost his battle through complications from heart surgery....
Their son was loved but had different ideas on life and lost his battle on a street..

There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must never be a time when we fail to protest.
Elie Wiesel, writer, Nobel laureate (b. 1928)

I think there's a big difference between protesting and arson, theft and vandalism.

But hey, it's the new thing. Riot when your team wins and riot when they lose. When they tie the hands of the police and give them "rules of engagement", the law seems to lose every time.

Going to hell in a hand-basket, that's us.

And, what some perceive as injustice usually conflicts with what others perceive as injustice.

And I agree with Flamey.

Maybe the parents should search deep inside?

I bet anyone on this forum could think of some things their kids did that were *not* what they were taught at home.

Maybe the parents did the best they could,
maybe they're shattered by grief,
maybe "there but for the grace of Whom- or What-ever"...

Some in the media deserve to be charged for inciting to riot.

I was very interested in hearing the detailed statement of the whole process the grand jury had gone through, yet our WGN radio station kept interrupting. I suppose they thought this was 'dragging on'. Commercials were probably stacking up!

We now have a public that won't sit still for anything but 'sound bites'. There's no patience for a point by point elaboration of a story that sorts hearsay from fact. (At least the media believes this.)

I've tried to understand this tragedy by putting aside the evident background of racial profiling. Let's pretend for a moment that we have two white males in this story.

IMO we had a young man very full of himself after graduating from high school. He treated himself to stolen cigars. He and his pal were claiming the street, defying the cop who ordered him get out of the road. What I see here is an in-your-face, I'm-out-of-here man-child who was suffering from some Senior-itis that would have gotten knocked out of him in time. He got caught up in himself, and his own momentum pushed him farther than he'd planned.

The cop acted within the law, but he was rattled when his 'lawful command' was challenged -- and he was afraid. He lost the composure necessary to his position of power. Was there a warning shot? Was it impossible to aim low? What police training and constant practice had he had about even *drawing* your gun on someone?

False pride. Swagger. Temper. Fear. A tragedy that never needed to be provoked or enacted.

Rattled???? Rattled??? The thug punched him in the face and broke his eye socket and was trying to get his gun. I think that would "rattle" anyone. To me, the victim here is the officer, oh, but no one would dare say that. As for his parents....they could have raised him to respect authority. And, they could have used a little of the money that they have made out of this (selling t shirts or whatever), to put a monument on their son's grave...which is still unmarked.

So agree Marilyn. I certainly hope my kids know enough that you don't hit a police officer in a car, on the street or anytime they are talking to you. Don't go for their gun, ever!
If anything , all the looting and rioting and unpeaceful protests have proven to our country is that Ferguson IS full of thugs and now we know why police are on a state of alert while trying to enforce the law there. Had there been peaceful protests, intelligent, thoughtful language and NO burning of cars and buildings, then they would have been taken seriously. To me they have acted like a spoiled brat, not really knowing why their even angry. Just having a fit because they can. When they start throwing a fit when a black on black crime happens and that could be 85 to 95% of the time, I'll come back and walk with them. Crime is crime, even if your psychedelic. Putting people out of business, burning cars, using foul language like ....an idiot would, I would be ashamed of anyone in my family doing that. I wish people would start living everyday of their lives like they would want their book biography to read. Do they see how terrible this is for their community? obviously not. If it were me I would staff the police there with 99% black folks. Put cameras on everyone's lapel and not take crap from anyone.

marilyn_c -- Broke his eye socket? I just saw on TV photos of the officer taken immediately after the incident. He had the beginnings of a bruise on the side of his jaw.

I believe this 18-year-old tough did punch the cop, and the facts support that he fought with the officer over the gun. We only have the officer's word for who pulled the gun out of its' holster, and when.

Well said, Toni!

I wish Sharpton would just stay away! He is back in Ferguson and said that "We are not done yet!". To me he is just fanning the flames of fire and hatred. The thugs have slept all day, so they can be out there all night again tonight!....it isn't like they are working!... I bet the the criminals are living off of "us"!...and I can not even imagine the cost of all of this!...so much for no violence!

"Crime is crime, even if your psychedelic.".

Someone needs to translate this comment for me.

********

These crowd riots are nothing new, unfortunately. For a dozen different reasons (including things like the lack of opportunities and continued societal racism), there's a black underclass. Many believe they've been victimized by the world around them. Others face hopeless lives and no possibility for advancement partially as consequences of their own actions and choices. No matter.

The reported bravado (and stupidity) of the young man in dealing with a policeman, if true, is not surprising.

There's always a crowd ready to overreact in senseless and lawless ways to what they consider further humiliation. Whether rightfully or not.

(edited for typos)

This post was edited by snidely on Tue, Nov 25, 14 at 18:35

I'm so glad to hear what I feel are logical, lucid comments on this thread. I had begun to think that I am the only one with the opinion I've formed, based upon what we've been told!

And I'm not saying that Brown deserved be be dead. BUT - this young man was a thug who had been a problem for police and to the community for a number of years, so he and his potential weren't unknown. And I'm not convinced that it's a racial thing (why is that always the knee jerk reaction???). The officer was threatened, the offender assaulted him and didn't respond to commands, all kinds of stuff happened (perhaps errors by both parties), and maybe it was racial, maybe not. Certainly not necessarily.

I grieve for all involved, everyone, including the country, is a victim of all that has happened and has been alleged.

Ok, off my soapbox and I'm expecting this thread to be pulled shortly, anyway, because someone will report it as belonging in "hot topics".

If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality.
Desmond Tutu, clergyman (b. 1931)

I love that quote, Jim. Perhaps I've missed something, but I haven't seen anyone here saying they're neutral, and the key is whether or not there was injustice. In the case of the elephant and mouse, sure. Most things aren't quite that easy.

I feel for everyone involved and hope that it resolves peacefully soon.

As far as who is right and who is wrong, I can't say. It's a complicated situation that is far beyond the surface facts. I don't think anyone is fully capable of judging the situation fairly because of the polarizing nature of it. This isn't just about this killing and whether it was justified or not. It goes far deeper than that. I don't condone violence but I also don't think it's right to just label the protesters as thugs with all of the associated implications.

As a privileged, upper middle class white female, it's impossible for me to fully understand. I don't have an ancestral history of slavery and violent racism because of my skin color. I don't face discrimination, racial profiling and oppression on a daily basis. I have had ample educational opportunities and the resources to have whatever I wanted and needed. I have had positive role models and I still believe in the justice system because I haven't had a reason not to. But I don't pretend for one minute that I am not incredibly lucky to not be jaded by the system because it has always worked for me. It doesn't always work for everyone else.

We all like to pretend that racism is over, but it's not. Not by a long shot. Even this forum thread has tiny bits of it woven through, though I am sure the posters would be shocked at being considered racist. That's how subtle and ingrained it is. And it's easy to say "well, I would never do that" or "I would raise my child right so he would never do something like that" when these multiple and prevalent injustices don't exist in your realm.

It's really, really easy to judge when it's not you or your family. Facing centuries, decades, years, days of a different reality than the majority of the population will change your perspective.

Sharpton is a Professional Black -- AKA a Race Hustler, as coined by John Kass in his column today in the Chicago Tribune.

Why would you announce this awaited verdict at 8 p.m.? Why would the governor refuse to call in the National Guard? *Somebody* wanted a riot and wanted to have the nation see black residents screaming profanities and burning their own town. It appears to me to have been 'orchestrated'.

Do I understand that this grand jury was presented with defense arguments? Isn't that unprecedented? Grand juries are meant to deliberate *in private* -- to weigh a prosecutor's argument, to see if there is cause to go forward with an indictment. They are not meant to replace a trial jury that weighs both sides of a case *in public*.

I would like a much longer timeline behind this incident.

Did Brown have a police record? (I don't know.)

Are Ferguson police overbearing in their contacts with the black majority (70%) in their town?

I was surprised to read today that both Wilson and Brown were 6' 4". Wilson was 210 lbs.; Brown 300 lbs. From his statements about being overpowered, I'd imagined Wilson as a much smaller person.

Why did Wilson attempt to leave his car in the first place? Why did he get out of his car and pursue Brown after the scuffle within the car -- instead of requesting backup? (This is not 'police procedure' or 'doing my job'.) When did he draw his gun?

An indictment and trial would (should) have answered some questions, although without any credible witness to the entire incident, start to finish, we might still have only Wilson's version of what happened.

Just want to say much respect to all of you on this thread.

Very refreshing in so many ways; I hope you know what I'm trying to say.

I was surprised to read today that both Wilson and Brown were 6' 4".

Maybe that's true, but forensic pathologist Cyril Wecht (well known in my area, for whatever that's worth) stated in this clip that Brown was 6'5" and Wilson was 6 feet. At least that's what I remember him saying. I don't have cable and don't watch CNN; a friend posted this link on FB today.

I have nothing else to contribute to this thread because I haven't been following the story.

I appreciate that we can try to discuss what we actually know of the facts here without prejudice for *either* 'side'.

About waiting until 8 pm to disclose....CNN reporter said he had been told that by waiting, they thought more residents would have time to get home from work and off of the streets. Which would make good sense.....I don't even want to imagine what would have happened if the streets would have been filled with innocent people who had no interest in protesting.