I really should take the high road. I should. I personally hate the company, but the product is useful. A perfect world it is not. Since everyone else seems averse to actually posting links I will do a few for those interested in the toxicology of Round Up. You will see wild claims but rarely in a scientific white paper by a credentialed professional in the matter. I personally fight for organics and sustainability. I purchase organic food when I can't grow enough of my own, I don't buy or eat feed lot beef etc. Here are some great links First I like Wiki- Sources are noted, and where they are not noted for statements you will seethe (citations needed) instead of the resource number. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glyphosate http://sandwalk.blogspot.com/2007/03/roundup-is-safe.html "TOXICITY REVIEW Acute (Mammalian) Glyphosate has reported oral LD5Os of 4,320 and 5,600 mg/kg in male and female rats (15,4). The oral LD5Os of the two major glyphosate products Rodeo and Roundup are 5,000 and 5,400 mg/kg in the rat (15). A dermal LD5O of 7,940 mg/kg has been determined in rabbits (15,4). There are reports of mild dermal irritation in rabbits (6), moderate eye irritation in rabbits (7), and possible phototoxicity in humans (9). The product involved in the phototoxicity study was Tumbleweed marketed by Murphys Limited UK (9). Maibach (1986) investigated the irritant and the photo irritant responses in individuals exposed to Roundup (41% glyphosate, water, and surfactant); Pinesol liquid, Johnson Baby Shampoo, and Ivory Liquid dishwashing detergent. The conclusion drawn was that glyphosate has less irritant potential than the Pinesol or the Ivory dishwashing liquid (120). Metabolism Elimination of glyphosate is rapid and very little of the material is metabolized (6,106). Subchronic/Chronic Studies (Mammalian) In subchronic tests, glyphosate was administered in the diet to dogs and rats at 200, 600, and 2,000 ppm for 90 days. A variety of toxicological endpoints were evaluated with no significant abnormalities reported (15,10). In other subchronic tests, rats received 0, 1,000, 5,000, or 20,000 ppm (57, 286, 1143 mg/kg) in the diet for 3 months. The no observable adverse effect level (NOAEL) was 20,000 ppm (1,143 mg/kg) (115). In the one year oral dog study, dogs received 20, 100, and 500 mg/kg/day. The no observable effect level (NOEL) was 500 mg/kg (116)." http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/actives/glyphosa.htm The theme here is. Don't ingest it. (would you ingest fish fertilizer? I got food poisoning from it once as a kid because I didn't wash my hands after handling...not pleasant) Again Don't drink it, don't spray it in your eyes, don't Walk around barefoot while it is wet or spray it on your skin. The best method is in a pump up sprayer on a calm day to minimize drift. I adjust the nozzle for a course spray, not atomizing the fluid like I would for foliar feeding. This prevents drift and forces the fluid to go on the target and not into the air where you can breath it, get it into your eyes or on your skin or have unintentional drift. Care when applying is all that is needed. Once the treatment area is dry it is safe to enter and work around. My occupation is a Safety Professional. By reviewing the MSDS if I was to have an employee applying this material for me I would require long pants and shoes and Rubber or other light chemical resistant gloves and goggles while pouring or transferring it but not necessarily for the application.. The reason I would recommend this is that is the recommendation of the msds http://www.kellysolutions.com/erenewals/documentsubmit/KellyData%5CNC%5Cpesticide%5CMSDS%5C74530%5C74530-4%5C74530-4_GLYPHOSATE_41__11_30_2006_4_57_38_PM.pdf And the fully formulated MSDS http://www.mindfully.org/Pesticide/Monsanto-Roundup-MSDS-Docs7017.htm Recognizing, controlling protecting from and eliminating hazards are what I do for a living. I would follow the manufacturers instructions and recommend anyone do the same. To put this into perspective you will be exposed to between 100 and 200 PPM of benzene the next time you fill your fuel tank at the self service pump. If you can smell gas, you are being exposed. The Occupational action level where mitigation is required is 1 PPM. A person can apply round up and not be exposed to any substances listed as hazardous with a Threshold limit value by the American council if industrial hygienist or a Permissible exposure limit by OSHA. Get this. Alaska fish fertilizer has phosphoric acid that does have a PEL and TLV. http://www.growercentral.com/UPLOADS/PDFS/alaska%20fish%20fertilizer%205-1-1%20msds%20(02-05).pdf EMERGENCY OVERVIEW: Potential Health Effects: Primary Entry Routes: Eyes, skin, ingestion. Target Organs: Eyes, skin, gastrointestinal tract. Acute Effects: Eye: May cause irritation, redness and/or burning. Skin: May cause irritation, redness and/or burning. Ingestion: May be harmful if swallowed. May cause abdominal cramps, nausea, vomiting and/or diarrhea. Medical Conditions Aggravated by Long-Term Exposure: Persons with existing skin lesions should exercise caution when using or handling this product. Chronic Effects: Prolonged skin contact may cause dermatitis. I am not going to quit using Alaska Fish fertilizer either nor am I giving up fueling my vehicles. I would post opposing views but the first one I opened Had a Trojan horse so if you are going to be searching for counterpoints do not open The link from naturescountrystore.com!!! It's infected with a trojan horse.

Sherry, glad you have decided to go for it. Lori and Robin, just wondered if you have decided to participate or not? I want to add you to the list. Just a reminder - if you are new to the forums and especially if this is your first Swap, make sure that you activitely post over the next few weeks so that your partner will be able to find some current information on you. Most of us like to search the various threads for hints of things that you might like rather than look at a list of likes and dislikes. Also, if you are looking for information on your partner and can't find what you are looking for, then get sneaky and start a thread on the cooking forum that hopefully your partner will post to. Example - Want to know if your partner likes spicy foods? Start a thread asking about favourite Curry or Mexican foods. Or maybe you are thinking of including something BBQ or Grill related. Start a related thread. Ann

Hi Everyone, Enjoyed a lovely dinner last night and cards with our dear friends. I ate Shepherd's pie (crustless type), biscuits and ice cream. Yes I went over my daily limit but I am not worried. I do the WW program and actually just used up my weekly freebie points or calories. Today and tomorrow I am in recovery mode to compensate. So what does my day look like? Cottage cheese 1%, home made barley soup loaded with veggies for lunch, apple for snack and dinner will be a full plate of steamed zucchini, squash, onion and a cooked egg. I will literally load that plate and put a spoon of margarine, salt & pepper. Of course water, water, water today. Why am I telling you this? Because you can deal with a meal event. I faithfully logged how much I had last night and noted the points/calorie values. I know where I stand. I am not deterred at all. I continue. Did I have a large serving? Yes, honestly and honestly two biscuits. Today I am quite happily puttering away at little jobs around the house and enjoying my healthy food choices. So don't despair when you have these moments. You dust yourself off and carry on. If you know a meal event is coming - plan a head. Reduce your calories a day or two ahead and then a day or two afterwards. Don't beat yourself up. Don't regret, feel bad - just do your best and keeping putting one foot in front of the other. You can do this. You can persevere through these moments in life. That is part of living a healthy lifestyle. Just be honest with yourself. Over the coming weeks I want to talk about planning ahead and then staying the course. There is a major meal event/weekend coming up in November for those of you in the US and I'd like to open the communication lines on how to deal successfully with it so you can enjoy your friends and family. Focus on the joy of the fall season. We'll get through that time together I promise and you will continue with your goals. That's what I wanted to say today to everyone, even those silent friends we have out there reading but not posting. I'm reaching out to invite you to come back and read our posts, share our journey. You don't have to share on here to be a part of our journey together. Just come back. If we can help you stay true to your dream then that is all I'm trying to achieve. Lets have a wonderful day today and tomorrow. Cheers, Peggy

Sue, I'll ask DH as soon as he's home (he's on a plane) so I'll post it tomorrow. Why he can retain that name but I can't...I don't know. Anyhoo, she's with JH proper verses the area we were in, female (ok that's obvious) african american if I remember right...and a specialist in ped IBD under 5. I owe that woman my life and I don't remember her name! Anyhoo, I won't forget to post it tomorrow. Ehhh screw that I decided to go online and look at all of them and she came up first (she's kind of strikingly gorgeous so I remember her picture LOL). Maria Oliva-Hemker MD Aj's mama...is this aj that's the problem LOL Gad, there's the problem with an older child. This is a tough issue and so hard on a preteen. I assumed immodiam was in use, so if not, do add that. (We couldn't because of my son's age) it's something and it would help a bit, if only to control the violence of a "moment". What to do if he won't cooperate? You're challenged there hun. It's almost easier for me because my son is so small he does not yet know it's suposed to be an embaressment. He has to buy in if you are to get him care. You know your son best, but if you make the appt and then consider leaving him with the doc on his own, he might open up more (cuz the gastro guys are used to this). Your ped is ok in ordering that test...but also insist on the referral. It takes time to get in, and if you son is celiac you'll still need a gastro guy so gettting in line isn't going to hurt. I remember our first ped...since fired. He didn't want to refer. I told him that I wanted to see an expert and he wasn't it. I was going to do so with or without a referral and if he was wrong, could he handle the financial implications in denying the referral. He provided the referral immediately. I don't remember where you are. If you're near Minnapolis I can give you the name of a great doc there (they have a school of gastroenterology). Sue: Here is a link that might be useful: Dr. Oliva-Hemker