I had no set age but figured I'd wait until they actually "need" them. Until the age of 13, my oldest was always in the presence of an adult, whether at school, camp, sports, activities, etc. Sure, it is a convenience, but I didn't feel like forking out the money if it was really necessary. In 7th grade, I started getting pressured by her because nearly all of her friends had them. By Christmas that year, she was one of about 3 kids in her class of 90 at school that did not have a phone. By spring, she was going through a bit of a rough patch socially (darn girls, what a tough age!) Much of her social circle's communication (well, basically ALL) was occurring via text and she was not only feeling left out, but actually was being left out. Her self esteem really being affected. Dh and I discussed it and after much annoyance at the feeling of "giving in" we got her a cell phone about two months before her 13th birthday. By the time she got her cheap phone, the majority of her friends had already graduated to iPhones. Don't even get me started on that subject! She is now 14, entering high school and all of her friends have them. I have come to realize now at her age, though, it is a nice comfort to me that she now has a phone because she now goes places with her friends (without parents). It's convenient for me in terms of getting in touch with her for logistical reasons. My son, who just finished 6th grade and turns 13 in five months is one of very few kids in his grade that doesn't have a phone. And there are plenty of kids in his grade that already have iPhones. Blows my mind. So, I guess I would say 12/13 is probably the typical age, but really, it should be what you are comfortable with, not what other people are doing. I don't imagine that my son will have the same social issues as my dd simply b/c his friendships don't operate the same way (let's face it, girls can be very *itchy to each other, especially in the early teen years!). Most of his friends do have cellphones but half the time, the parents have taken them away as punishment, or they've forgotten to bring it with them, etc. So for now, it's a non-issue with him and I don't imagine he'll get one anytime soon.

Sounds like a few things going on. I don't eat out much; but years ago (80's); I don't know many people that did not take the jelly that was given. I don't know why it was taken except enough for each piece was given & some didn't use it so someone always grabbed it. They figured it was included with the price. With her & older people; it very well could be that buying their own jelly goes bad because they don't use it in time. I'm throwing out tons of food with my hub on the road. Seems every time I go to cook something; it's expired. I realize that she's now living with you; but habits are hard to stop. My ex-neighbor also takes Splenda. He doesn't make coffee at home; when he goes to McD's he grabs a few packs to put in his pocket in case he's at someone's house & they do not have Splenda (or whatever color packet he uses). Yeah; why doesn't he just buy a box? The box would go bad. Depending on what she's taking & from where; I wouldn't worry about it. Smaller places that are more mom & pop; yes because you know it hurts them financially but larger places like McD's- I doubt it puts a dent in it. We don't buy McD's often but if we do; they don't even ask if you want sauce for the nuggets & if they do give; most do charge for extra if it's not enough. I wouldn't even worry about sugar packets; how many people don't use sugar these days or take black coffee? Chinese never gives enough sauces; especially duck sauce. I'll leave the soy they give & exchange it for duck sauce. I've tried buying duck sauce in the store; not the same as what they give. I personally don't wipe them out but make sure I take enough for what I bought. With things like fern table decorations; I think that's just changing times & they don't get out much. All of my life; if there was a function; they always had one person from each table take the piece home. These days it's not the same. Taking the gift bags was out of line; if you do something like that again; keep them out of sight. You can also take her shopping with you to buy extra candy that she likes. It's "funny" that this is pretty common that as they age; they seem to regress to kid behavior. I'm pretty sure my neighbor pocketed a few things when he stayed here; my favorite nail file that I've had for years that never seemed to wear away. The grit was also perfect. I can't find a similar one. It was a freebie marked woman's center; I caught it in his pocket once; wish I could remember what he told me other then he was still using it; I took it back; it disappeared again.

Silver Quite interesting reading. I have thought about EX and how he must feel about DD, or any woman that has been in his life. I do understand the conceptual thinking behind the term "limerance". I had a man that I felt that way about once. I never told him, figuring that if he felt anything for me he would approach me. There were a few mixed signals, I thought but he never made an attempt that was something that I knew for sure showed he was interested in me. He had enough chances to do that and he didn't. He thought of me as a friend or sister I guess. Or he would have gone for a little "roll in the hay" if I would have. He even introduced me to a girlfriend that he began dating and ended up getting her pregnant and they later married. Ouch! With EX's past ( if what he has said is true ) he undoubtedly has great fear of rejection. Again, if what he says is true, he wanted my DD to stay with him, build a future with him and he wanted a family with us. There are too many things though that are negatives to the success of their relationship that he is completely out of touch with which makes me think that he has a break with normal thought processes. This is evident with other actions...his extensive lying and his criminal behavior. My DD did not want to marry or have children ( my goodness, she is only 20 ) and he did. Very much in fact. I don't know that she will ever change her mind but he had said that he would rather have had her and no kids than to not have her at all. I don't know that it would have been something he could have easily lived with though. The age difference is something that was too vast....11 years...when dealing with her age group. Had they met when she was in her 30's or 40's or older then it would not have been as big a deal. I am sorry for him when it comes to honest, heartfelt feelings that he might have had for my DD. The fact that he could install such fear ( and continues to do so ) and the fact that he has told so many lies negates all of that though. It sucks to be rejected. Our family histories have a lot to do with whether or not we can process the rejection in a healthy way. Most of us have been and some of us have stepped over a line while dealing with it that we cringe at after having healed a bit. It is important to teach our kids that when they deal with peers or a romantic interest people have a right to reject them. In the long run it is for the best. I don't know how much EX has control over when it comes to his emotions about the breakup. I am sorry that I can't talk to him. It just can't happen. I want him to get help and to go onto have a happy life. More importantly though I want him to leave my DD alone and let her move on. Thanks for the thread and the link Silversword.

Even Obama, a highly educated man, slips up. He used "with him and I" and "with Senator Edwards and I" several times in a talk recently. It's all over the internet. It must be a regionalism because I never heard it until I moved to Minnesota: the word "drug" for the past tense of "to drag," such as "I drug the mattress into the living room." It sounds so backwoods ignorant that it makes my blood boil! I also can't stand people that don't know the difference between "its" and "it's."