My DH doesn't like noise like that. He is something of a wet blanket, but also he seems to be developing hearing problems, and noise like this makes hearing a conversation difficult for him. He just naturally has always liked quiet. The doctor says his hearing tests fine, but his family thinks this is an early stage of hearing problems.

We make a point of not sitting near any large group. You should have moved.

I would have asked for a to go box and left. Loud noise irritates me greatly.

I agree with all the above...my advice is just to eat somewhere else.

Many of our "upscale" restaurants are unbearably loud.
Their acoustics are actually set that way.
The thinking is that noise = people enjoying themselves.
I don't like loud restaurants so I don't go to them.
That being said, I would never ask management to
quiet down other diners. I would deal with it, move or
leave.

My sisters and I are probably loud sometimes when we get together but that is happening less and less because a few of us have health problems and we can't get together very often. I hope people will just tolerate us and be happy we are sharing a good laugh.

This post was edited by jkayd_il5 on Mon, Sep 8, 14 at 11:53

I hope to someday be sitting at that table. If my laughing at that stage of my life and having a good time with friends bothers you - find someplace else to eat.

I would appreciate that these old folks found something to make them laugh. It wouldn't bother me at all.

I wouldn't say anything. That'd just embarrass them and give them an unhappy memory to carry around. It'd be cruel.

Interestingly, at this Panera's the acoustic are good. It has been packed, yet we never find it too noisy.
To answer, there wasn't an area that you wouldn't hear them. Except by the front door, which is not comfortable as it has high tables there.
Honestly, I would like to be told if I was annoying another customer. Why should ones experience trump another's?
And it's true, if it keeps happening , we probably would avoid that time. We like a quiet peaceful breakfast.

This post was edited by ellendi on Mon, Sep 8, 14 at 16:03

I have no problem with noise (as in a bar), but many people do tend to be too loud in restaurants. In a casual restaurant, I think some merriment is fine. In a nicer one, no. Also, the structure of some places (concrete floors or walls, low ceilings, nothing to absorb sound) can make it worse. But just as when a place is too hot, or has music I find unpleasant, I vote with my feet.

When a place of business doesn't offer what you want or the environment you're looking for, you go elsewhere.

Happy noise doesn't really bother me as long as they are not being obnoxious or foul. I probably would have sat at my table and eavesdropped! And then I would've laughed along with them.

Loud music and screaming children would annoy me.

If it were really loud and disruptive to the conversation that I was trying to have at my own table, then I would have moved to a different table. Often times that alone will let them know they are being a little too loud. I would not have asked management or your server, other than to let them know you moved.

Our local coffee shop has regular groups that get together weekly. It is a pleasure to watch diners still actually have conversations than to watch people on their phone talking or texting.

It's rare that I have a problem with people having fun and making noise. Groups at restaurants, crying babies, loud children, laughing teenagers, none of those bother me normally. But a few months ago we were seated by the loudest group I've ever encountered. And the noise level was all out of proportion to the need; it was a quiet restaurant and there was no need for them to talk anywhere near that level. I've never experienced anything quite like that before. We asked to move. Even after the move to the far side of the room I could hear every word, but at least the sound didn't pierce my ears. If we couldn't have moved I think I might have asked the manager to say something. And that is coming from a person who loves to see groups of teens or large family groups or really any groups out laughing together.

we weren't overly noisy, but dh, his cousin and I had a dinner and were lolling, just a stress reliever, after a very tense day....and we didn't leave as soon as we would have, either (they did have seats)

It wouldn't bother me. I would move if it did. Good for them having a great time. Its not the library.

Nope, I wouldn't have bared anything, but I would have either moved tables, left the restaurant, or grinned and borne it.

Panera is a very casual dining establishment. Loud groups (unless obnoxious with language) are both expected and reasonable for the venue. It's not like you were in a $150/meal restaurant with deep plush carpets and black-suited waitstaff all speaking in hushed tones.

bear = support, put up with, accept. Past tense is borne

bare = uncover (ed), naked, plain. Past tense is bared

Always interesting to see the varied opinions.

Snidely, you certainly are good at turning a smile into a frown. Maybe others here would be pleased to be corrected, but I'm not one of them! So, please keep my feelings in mind when you participate in a thread that I have started.

Au contraire, Ellen, I was describing a difference maybe some weren't aware of. You apparently weren't or if so, just a case of typing fast. Everyone does that sometimes, "Feelings" shouldn't be involved.

If you insist on getting your nose twisted over nothing, I think it was mary c who poked at you with a bit of fun by using the two past tense forms in her first sentence.

Yes, I did it first, ellendi. Snidely just provided the definitions of the homophones.

snidely, you surely gave yourself the right nickname. Incorrect spelling annoys me, one of the most common being definately for definitely, but I keep mum.

I wouldn't have done anything. Frequently a group of seniors out like that is made up of widows and/or widowers. Be happy they are enjoying some social time.
Since you were out with your husband, you have no idea what is like to be living alone after many years of marriage and companionship.

Ellendi,

I have a fairly serious hearing impairment. If I was in such a situation, with others loud in the background, I would not be able to hear the person I was with. For me, because I know my hearing is impaired, I do not expect others to be quieter, I'm not saying others should have my expectations, it's just the way I handle my impairment.
(I used to wear hearing aids, but some of my hearing at this point cannot be amplified or recovered).

Being unable to hear while others talk is not necessarily the norm (although it can be, depending on how loud they are). There are all sorts of clubs and boutique restaurants with tables practically on top of one another and sometimes even music playing, and those at the tables will be talking to each other and apparently hearing each other.
For many years I did not realize the extent of my hearing loss.
I'm wondering if possibly you might be in the early stages of some hearing loss like I was years back and not realize it, as I did not?

This post was edited by lucille on Tue, Sep 9, 14 at 11:08

marygailv, just do what I do. When you come across a grammar nazi like snidely, you softly say, there, their, they're. I love that meme!

Here is a link that might be useful:

Perfection can be a cross, and with grammar, eschews the vernacular.

It wouldn't bothered me. What I don't like is when families come into the hospital I work at with their sick or dying family member, stand/sit out in the hallways and in the tiny rooms blocking our way in and out to help their family member and make tons of noise. Some get on their cell phone or bluetooth thing on the side of their head and talk as loud as they can pacing back and forth by the nurses' station or by other patients' rooms. Some are just obnoxiously loud out in the hall. They act like they came to a party, little kids running and sometimes yelling or crying up and down the hallway.

I also dislike when people talk during movies constantly or kids kick my seat, teenagers put their nasty feet on the back of my chair and hit me in the head....then act like they didn't know this would bother me? Cell phones in public places are another annoying thing, someone talking loudly on a phone anywhere, but I don't say anything to them...maybe to the person I'm with. Sometimes loudly because now I'm an old lady and don't care what other people think about me anymore-LOL.

Old people having fun is nice. A lot of them have trouble hearing each other. We get a lot of old men in our hospital, 95% of them are over 50, a lot are hearing impaired. Every so often we'll get an 80 or 90 year old and you can hear the nurse in the hallway greeting them loudly, only to hear the patient yell back "YOU DON'T HAVE TO YELL, I'M NOT DEAF!" Doesn't happen a lot, though.

If your "having a good time with friends" is so loud and disruptive that other tables are being moved as far away from you as possible, or getting up and walking out the door, you are just plain rude! Every patron should have a reasonable expectation to dine in comfortable surroundings.

I enjoy seeing old people, like myself, out having a good time. I would have just moved to a table across the room. The only time I say anything to others out dining is when I see a couple with well behaved very young children. I stop at the table on my way out and compliment them on the good behavior of the children. They always seem surprised and very happy to receive the compliment.

To answer your question, No, I would not have asked a table of seniors in a casual setting like Panera's to quiet down, being too familiar with the hearing issues of many of our seniors. I know that a table where several people are seated is one of the most difficult hearing circumstances for my mother as example, her hearing aids don't correct or filter adequately that she can keep track of all the ongoing conversations -

I would not have complained to the management or acknowledged my minor annoyance in any way.

The same would go for a group of teens in that setting depending on their topic, although there is just about enough grown up in me if the language wasn't appropriate, or subject, teens might get a bit of quick adult suggestion ;)
But, in the case of teens or anyone being truly offensive, DH would have beaten me to it and probably done it better. He has a non-threatening but no-nonsense approach to people that always seems to get a good response -

But again, he wouldn't have intervened in a group of lively seniors any more than I would have, he may have just enjoyed their energy.

Ellendi: "Why should ones experience trump another's? "

Not sure where this circle ends, but.... isn't that just what you are wanting of the "laughing" group, your experience over theirs?

Smile and hope it was contagious. :)

BeeOhio, what was disturbing was how loud they were. One man especially.
My thoughts here are to be considerate. Speak in a normal tone. This isn't your backyard.

Even though Paneta's is a public fast food type place, if you look around, it attracts all types of people, and for different reasons. Some are on their laptops, some are having a business meeting, for some it's social.

Everyone raises their voice at times during a conversation. I'm just saying to be respectful of those around you. I am really not interested in your conversation, and would like to be able to concentrate on my own conversation.

Side story: A group( also seniors)!meets in a very small Dunkin Donuts. They used it as a place to socialize. (One cup of coffee, and they sat all morning.)
I was there when an employee came and told them they couldn't do this any longer. They took over the majority of the seats and many spaces in the lot.

This is also what I mean by being considerate. They felt it was okay to take up half the seats and parking lot all morning and had to be told that this was not okay.

'Where there's all this much laughing going on ...

... there's gotta be some funny business ... someplace".

I would let it go. Seniors are just old teenagers, let them have some fun. You have to expect things like that in a restaurant, If you wanted privacy you should just stay home.

If my Dunkin Donuts told seniors to leave for any reason, I'd quit utilizing them. They're not the only game in town.

My coffee place lets the homeless come in a clean up every morning. And I appreciate that. So many people need help. We should be opening our doors and our hearts.

I always find the difference of opinion interesting here.

Rob, think about this. Each morning you go to your local Dunkin Donuts and you can either not find parking in the lot, or if you do, you have to take your breakfast to go because others have decided that this is their meeting place and sit there all morning. I am not sure why this is okay.

I am all for assisting the homeless, but I am not sure I agree with them using the one public bathroom as a place to clean up. They need shower facilities and clean clothing. Without a shower, body odor can linger for a very long time. I am assuming you have cleaner homeless people than ones I have come across.

What I learned from posting this thread. None iof my senior friend have significant hearing loss. It didn't occur to be that the loud seniors at the Panera's could all be hard of hearing.

They're seniors. They may have hearing problems and don't know they're speaking so loudly. Besides, they've lived long good lives and should be able to sit in a restaurant and have a good time with their friends. It's only an hour or so of my life that I'm in a place with loud people. One hour. If I can't take the noise, I'll leave. I don't say anything to anyone in any restaurant if they're loud. Yes, it can bother me when I'm trying to have a nice relaxing dinner. But it's not like I'm going to try to take a nap. :)

The evolving discussion and mention of Dunkin Donuts brought to mind what became a gathering place of seniors at a McDonald's.

Here is a link that might be useful: McDonald's

and I'm not sure why it's not ok? There's a place on 21st Ave, Nashville, that never has a parking space. Always taken up with all those university kids. Packed to the brim, stand in line a mile long... I don't park there. If I want to go, I park somewhere else, and I walk there. And it's a busy place, because it's good food, and great atmosphere. I don't cut my nose off to spite my face. I work around it. A busy place is a busy place regardless of why.

But, if they treated the seniors well (and we should. We should treat everyone well!), they might bring in more business, suggesting to others how well they were treated. It's just good business sense.

Rob, read Lucille's link. Those seniors gathering @ McD's were a bit over the top.... 3 or 4 sharing a $1 cup of coffee, going back for refills, even taking the cup home washing it out & bringing it back! Staying all day, no line @ the counter, but no place to sit when customers came in. I could see an owner having legitimate complaints. Yep, "busy" but not selling product.

Should the almighty dollar sway kindness? Yes, I read the link. It said there aren't enough placs for seniors. It broke my heart. Where are the priorities in that case? Kindness trumps the dollar in my world.

I posted the link but am definitely sympathetic to the seniors, being a senior myself.
I understand the need to make money, but a lot of these corporations make huge amounts of money, enough so that they could probably figure out a way to help those seniors.
It often seems that the very young and the very old are simply expected to stay home and just try to overcome their needs for socializing. I guess if you can't be quiet or spend a lot, you are not worthwhile.

Our Dunkin is on a busy road not in a neighborhood. So no where else to park.
I don't think it's fair for students to sit all day either.

I don't recall 21st Avenue being a neighborhood? Well, we do say it is in the "Village", and it's an area, but nobody lives there. It too, is a very busy road. I think we can accommodate if we want to.

This post was edited by rob333 on Fri, Sep 12, 14 at 12:50

I think some of you have lost your perspective here.

A McDs, some other franchise, or a local operation is not a huge corporation making tons of money. It's a small business. Buying cups of coffee doesn't entitle a group to turn the place into a day-long community center. If the owner/manager thinks those customers overstaying their welcome dissuades other customers from coming in, causing a loss of business, asking them to be considerate about limiting their stay is reasonable. Shouldn't they know not to stay too long without being asked or know enough to instead have their get-togethers in someone's home?

What if your employer told you that you were only getting half your normal paycheck this month, because they decided to donate half of your salary to fund a senior center? That wouldn't be ok. So why does this local operation need to lose customer money because someone else decided how to use their seats, no matter what the effect on the business?

Coffee places and cafes near colleges encourage individual customers to drop in, stay and study for awhile. Most will ask larger groups to move on after too long a stay. That's a different story.

Sure, senior groups need places to go. That's not any individual's responsibility to remedy.

No snidely, McD's franchise owners are not small businesses. I know all about how one becomes one as I was in a relationship with a multimillionaire for many years and he considered owning. No one is saying any individual should shoulder the burden. No one is saying take away employee's salary. Where was that even intimated? Not by me. I think, as a society, as a whole, we don't value the right things. The almighty dollar is not what should be first and foremost.

I suggested, the business could make more money by being nicer and doing things to make people feel welcome. If I went to someplace that treated me like a number and a nuisance, I'd not only avoid that place, I'd tell others to avoid. Not very good business sense.

People ask me all the time, in the course of my job (one of about ten billion things I do), where to go to take people out to show off the city. You can bet I have been sending business to those who take care of customers. If dinky donuts doesn't want to play, I'd send them to Donut Country, run by a middle TN family for generations. They're better anyhow.

This upcoming weekend, a top dog from across the pond is coming to meet with top dog in my industry. They're going to the place I took my out of town guests. My boss takes his guests. Why? Because no request made to them is wrong. I'm sure my piddly donation of a two figure meal didn't do much for them the other day, but come Sunday night, it'll be four figures. And it won't be the last time I send them my business. Oh, and parking is impossible, lines are long, conversations are going on. Doesn't detract to me. Sure, it could've been quieter. I probably could've done without the guests at the next table, but instead, they ended up making me laugh, and made it memorable for me. Such is life. Some know how to make lemonade or a dollar just by being nice.

Rob, I totally agree about the importance of kindness. But aren't these seniors in the article being "unkind" in a manner of speaking, by basically doing the owner out of multiple cups of coffee, unkindly taking space from other customers who wish to sit at a table to eat?

Did you read this?
In the article: (my bold)
The Korea Times also noted that given its large Asian immigrant population, Flushing actually has an abundance of Korean community centers and senior centers where the coffee-dawdlers could go instead, but they prefer the McDonalds probably because itâÂÂs cheap, convenient and part of an established routine. "It's not that these people don't have anywhere else to go. They just like going to this McDonald's because that's where everyone gathers. They don't even have to set a date and time,â said Seo-Ji-woo, who runs a cake shop across from the fast food diner. "Go there any day, any time and they'll find senior friends they can chat with. It's an established meeting spot so it's tough to break that apart.âÂÂ

I hear ya. I just don't agree. I read the article. I think if McDonald's wants to make things cheap and affordable to attract business, they got what the wished for. I have nothing against owning a McD or even patronizing one. But if you're aiming in a particular way, you get what you get. Do I think the Koreans are right or wrong? Well that's another story. I don't understand business that won't service the customers they attract? That is baffling.

When I met for coffee with my 8 retired friends this morning, I did an informal poll. All but one of us feels restaurants have the right to ask customers to move on, in certain circumstances. Eight of us (including me) believe the owners are within their right to do so, if a group of customers have been sitting for a prolonged period of time and all of them have already finished, or are clearly keeping a drink in front of them for an extended period, to justify not getting up to leave.

However, if there are no customers who have paid for their food and are unable to find seating or if there are no customers coming in the door and leaving immediately because there is no seating, then we don't feel the group should be asked to move on. All my group (except one) believes that being seniors does not entitle us to become selfish and prevent other customers from being able to enjoy a coffee or meal, by hogging seats for an unnecessary length of time. (The other one said "Who cares, first come first served, they can find someplace else.")

The rest of us don't feel any owner should suffer a loss in income from other customers, because people who only bought one item 2 hours ago are still there and no other seating is available. It's all about being courteous and we seniors shouldn't expect to be let off the hook merely on the basis of age.

I'd say our group never lingers longer than 45 minutes, and we leave sooner if we have finished and other customers are looking for seats. None of us would make a complaint about anyone's level of volume, if no obscenities or inappropriate (racist, etc.) remarks were being made.

Well said, picky!