Seems a little hypocritical in some ways, doesn't it? They think they are living a "better" lifestyle, and in some ways, they are. I experienced this years ago when a family member was in a cult, supposedly living a "better" life.

Just roll your eyes privately, Kitykat, and don't fuss about it. I know you must feel disappointed.

I have a vegan daughter. Totally vegan! Not even honey gets allowed in her house.. the shoe thing too, and she grinches if she has to get in my car (leather seats, covered up for her). The latter is actually convenient, as she prefers to drive, and thus I have a driver.

So, how can someone THAT vegan keep a dog? Isn't that sort of not vegan?

See, I have questions about all that too.

Moni

Don't make a peep.

This is their lifestyle decision, & they control access to your grandchild.

I was married to a pot smoker & dated a couple of others (did I have a sign on my back or what?), & although they weren't go-getters by any means, they weren't bad people, & they didn't hurt anyone.

Tattoos are an individual choice, not subject to anyone else's approval, just like pierced ears, mini-skirts, & hip-hugger pants.

At the very least, vegetarians & vegans are putting their money where their mouths are, & no animals suffer & get slaughtered for their benefit/use.

good enough.

It would be hard for me to understand also. What do their parents think? Because pot is involved, could they loose there children? Are they breaking the law? Is there other drugs? As a mother and grandmother and great GM, I probably would say something to both the parents and kids---but only if I felt my life would not be threatened. I do have compassion for you. My daughter in law is vegetarian but very understanding and polite wherever she goes to eat. She always can find something. But it thru the church she belongs to and our family respects this and we try to have food available for her and her family.

People can rationalize anything in their mind, and to others, if it's something they want to do, even if it doesn't quite fit with an image they want to project.

Every generation has various sub-categories of norms and practices that really define sub-cultures. It's like different cliques during the school years, it's a matter of choice and conformity, people find their way into whatever group practices are common for the peers they choose to be with and be like.

Not everyone in this age group would be describable in this way.

it's just a matter of perspective. I don't necessarily see a conflict if they like the natural/organic and also tattoos and weed. Depending on your perspective, all of those things can be very natural. They also do have some natural hair dyes out there.

It's also not unusual to believe in a certain lifestyle but not be able to maintain it 100%. I don't think that makes people hypocrites; just human! Perfection is very hard to maintain. And even if you aren't perfect, every little bit helps with regards to a cleaner, healthier lifestyle.

I think we all do it to an extent. For example, I am a strict vegetarian but I also choose to go out to dinner and I am sure I have had unknowing cross-contamination with meat products. I just live with it because the alternatives are not something that I want to live with (basically never going out to eat at anywhere). I just do my best to avoid meat, but that doesn't mean that I don't support people being strict vegetarians, or see the merit in doing so. I still call myself a vegetarian even though I am almost positive I have unknowingly eaten chicken broth or something like that. People could say I am not a vegetarian for that very reason and technically they would be right, but I know my intentions.

Yes, pot is against the law in all their states. Yes, legally they could lose the baby... because they personally grow the dang stuff! Yes, it's their choices to do whatever to their bodies. But the contradictions... I just don't get! It goes beyond personal expression, lifestyle, clothing styles, food choices. They are oxymoron's (...accent on the second syllable, IMHO).

I have a niece who is vegetarian and was vegan. She also won't wear leather anything and when they finally bought a car (a Prius ) she wanted to know all the materials that were in it. But, she doesn't flaunt her beliefs or try to change anyone. She was vegan but for health reasons had to drop some of her very stringent dietary requirements.

I have a sister who is a vegetarian and the worst kind of vegetarian. She is a holier than thou vegetarian and makes it very well known how great she is and the rest of us are heathens because we aren't vegetarian.

I guess my point is, if your grand-children are supporting themselves, are responsible and respectful people, then, as mentioned, just shake your head. I suspect, that as they get older their choices and beliefs will change and become in line with a choice-system that makes more sense. I don't mean a more mainstream choice-system but things such as giving up the smoking because it isn't healthy. Although, (forgetting for a moment the illegality of smoking marijuana) how many of us have a couple of drinks everyday.

Now, the number of drinks per day that is acceptable has been dropped by the medical system - if you're a vegetarian for health reasons should you be drinking.

I am all for to each his own, but, there are children that are being exposed to drugs and drug activity.
Maybe you should try to talk to these kids and try to make them understand the consequences of their behavior. And make sure that they know that their children could very well be taken from them.
Pink hair, green hair, tattoos, piercings whatever...I personally would not let their children live another day in that environment. But that's just me. I could not sit back and see those babies live like that. They can do what they want with their lives but no way could I sit back and do nothing.

'I personally would not let their children live another day in that environment. But that's just me. I could not sit back and see those babies live like that. '

& how would you go about snatching these, as far as we know, healthy, happy children away from their parents whose pink hair you don't like?

You can't fly in there & take those kids just because you want to, & the authorities aren't like a well-trained dog: *you can't call them off*.

Once the family is in the CPS system, they stay there, sometimes forever.

& if the authorities did take the children, they *might* allow a grandmother to have guardianship.

& they might not.

Those children could grow up in the foster care system & you'd never see them again.

Growing up with loving parents, odd, eccentric, employed or unemployed, pink hair & all, is always better than the foster system.

I'd caution, too, gainst your advice to 'make sure that they know that their children could very well be taken from them'.

That sounds exactly like a threat, & if those were my children, you'd never set eyes on them, or me, again.

I hope your grandchildren are never at your mercy, because it sounds like you'd destroy their families for doing things you don't approve of.

Judgment & punishment are not yours, or mine, to dish out, & it sounds like this is a loving & happy family.

Totally agree with Sylvia. As a nurse, having had some dealings with CPS, I'm glad it is there for the emergency cases but it is plagued with problems both from within and without.
Before you jump in, think.

"because it sounds like you'd destroy their families for doing things you don't approve of"
Destroy their families....and doing illegal drugs and exposing kids to those drugs is ok?? Aren't they teaching those kids that drugs are ok?
And it has nothing to do with what I would approve of. It's about a healthy, safe environment and what's the law.
Will it be ok if the someone turns them in and the cops come busting in in the middle of the night and the kids are scooped up and taken away. Like that's not going to scare the he!! out of them. And then they will get to go visit their parents in jail, that's nice.
I'd take that chance that I would never see them again rather than spend the rest of my life living with the fact that maybe I could have got them out of that unhealthy place and saved them from leading the kind of life their parents showed them.
I'm sure the kids are getting real good care when the parents are stoned out of their mind.

You should be proud to have healthy, intelligent, self-sufficient grandchildren. What a blessing!

Pink hair or tattoos don't indicate bad or good parenting.
As for the pot smoking, do they admit to smoking all day? If not, how is this known? Maybe it's just an assumption by someone else?

opinions make the world go around I guess

This post was edited by chas46 on Tue, Jul 29, 14 at 16:05

We recently had a young student nurse working with us. She's a vegetarian for health reasons, not because of the animal cruelty thing. In my mind I was thinking she's so smart but then she has an obvious dark, tanning-booth tan. Nothing healthy about that. I didn't say anything but was thinking this during our vegetarian-for-heatth conversation.

Geez, it's not like they are shooting up heroin and leaving dirty needles around. It won't be long until pot is legalized everywhere as it's already legal in Colorado. By the time the kids are old enough to know what it is, I bet it will be legal. It's one thing to be concerned and maybe say something to the parents but quite another to report them.

Getting pulled out of their home by CPS would be far more traumatic for the kids than being around pot. My mom smoked it when I was a kid and I never once have tried it or any other drugs myself so they are hardly doomed to become drug addicts.

If someone is going to report this, they should also report anyone who smokes cigarettes around their kids, anyone who gives their kids any kind of junk food, anyone who drinks who has children and any other "dangerous" habit that could be passed on. I think some of these "legal" habits are far worse in terms of child welfare.

As the OP, this baby is my great-grandchild, living many states away. The grandmother is my former daughter in law. She warns the parents, all the time, about their negative behavior and possible consequences. If/when legal, their pot use becomes a different set of circumstances. Until then......

Perhaps just a factor of my age, but I ponder if these young people will, in a few years, wonder what they were doing or thinking? I have a daughter in law pushing 40, with a tiny, tiny tattoo on her ankle. She now regrets getting it at 21, and cringes at the thought that either of her little girls would one day similarly 'disfigure' (her word) themselves.

I do appreciate the various points of view on my topic... thanks.

'I ponder if these young people will, in a few years, wonder what they were doing or thinking?'

I think there's an element of that in most people's lives.

My own moods or thoughts seem to vary between "why did I do that?" (spend too much time in dead-end jobs & dead-end relationships) & "I wish I could do that again (take off in my daddy's Impala & visit my friends 200 miles away, go to school during the day...)."

It seems to me some young people continue to be extremely self-absorbed a very long while past adolescence-- but it's been a long time since I was young! Hard to tell 'mellow' from 'slacker' sometimes, too.

Impossible to explain, understand, or comprehend human behavior. When they preach, contradict them, without an argument. Good luck as the future unfolds for all.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with their lifestyle. I don't have a problem with anyone who smokes a joint now and then. As long as it's outside away from the kids. I did much worse: I smoked cigarettes in my basement family room with my husband, and our children were in the room and there was no ventilation. None. Two are asthmatic. When we quit smoking, I did apologize to my children for putting them through OUR horrible habit. Tattoos and coloured hair don't make bad parents. I've seen a lot of clean cut "perfect" looking people who have had their children removed for physical abuse. And I know a lot more tattoed, pierced pot heads who are fantastic parents to their children because they're way more open minded.

I'm sure there were things you did when you were young that your grandmother questioned in her head.. ;)

How exactly do you know they are "continuously stoned"? Have you seen it yourself? They appear to be able to get themselves to work on a regular basis - you can't do that while "continuously stoned".

Tattoos and wildly colored hair have absolutely NOTHING to do with good or bad parenting.

Neither does casual marijuana use - any more than my second glass of wine on occasion does. And now, nearing sixty, I wouldn't mind the occasional puff again.

Since pot is illegal in their state, they are risking their child being taken by CPS and them going to jail should anyone report it. (I don't recall kitykat saying she was thinking of reporting them). IF they are indeed smoking pot all night long, this COULD also lead to neglecting the child. It's not OK to be smoking weed to excess around your kids any more than it's OK to be drinking to excess around them. These parents are putting their (illegal) wants and desires ahead of what's best for the child and, as such, are acting very irresponsibly by risking jail time and their child taken from them.

I would also be concerned about a vegan diet for a small child and this is something that should be discussed with their pediatrician.

It was another poster, not OP, who said she 'wouldn't stand for' the children being in their environment.

OP is many miles away from the family & may think the parents are 'continuously stoned' from what she's heard, not from what she's observed.

You can't be continuously stoned & maintain a job & a household.

I'm wondering how you know all of these "facts" if you don't have contact with them? The only way would be from others, which in reality is gossip and we all know how stories change from telling to telling. I find it hard to believe that people who have a serious pot problem are working and self sufficient. If they are indeed stoned all day.

The thing I would focus on would be to forge a relationship with my grandchildren, not judge them. My DD, who is going to live in and teach in Krygystan, was sobbing the other day because she is afraid my Mother will pass away in the 2 years she will be gone. Which is a possibility (of course for any of us). But I know she loves her Gramma with all of her heart.

Kitykat, I truly understand your not being sure what to think about your grandchildren's behavior. With that in mind I did a quick Google search as I wasn't sure about tatoos and veganism. I personally don't care at all for tats, but our daughter and her husband can't get enough of them. My daughter knows how I feel, but still asked me to design one for her. I know that was sweet of her, but at the time I hadn't drawn for so long that I wasn't sure I could do it. Before I had time to play around she went ahead and got it done. I love her like crazy, so I would have done it, I just didn't have the confidence to draw something at the time. After her first few tats, long before she was married, I started calling her my "painted lady", telling her when all those years I told her I loved painted ladies, I was talking about Victorian homes, not my daughters body! LOL So that's our joke now. She's my painted lady. Love her, not so much the tattoos.
Okay, back to the tattoos and veganism. There are animal products in traditional inks and the products used during the healing process, but there are other inks and healing products that can be substituted for those. I guess there are even "vegan tattooist".
There are natural hair dies. Henna for instance. No chemicals what so ever and all plant based. They come in some pretty "non-natural" looking colors, but I've never seen pink. Doesn't mean it's not out there. I personally will not put chemicals on my hair and use natural Henna that doesn't cover gray. I like my gray. I earned it.
I too am somewhat of a naturalist, but I eat meat and wear and sit on leather. God meant for us to eat meat, (Deuteronomy 12:20) though we are to treat the animals well and kill them only for our need of their meat. I believe He also meant for us to use the rest of the animal, but I can't remember where that or the part about treating them well is in the Bible for sure. Numbers 22:22-35 is about when Balaam beat his donkey so that might be part of what I'm remembering about the treatment of animals.
As for their smoking and growing pot? That boggles my mind.
As a Grammy, I realize the best I can do is pray for my children's well being and that of their offspring. I give them all lots of love and talk to them about their decisions in a way that shows both my love and concern without being "preachy". Our daughter takes that better than our son does, so I let his Dad do the talking more than I.

I agree with chisue that the a fixation on self-absorptive and group conformity behavior seems to have extended from teenage years into adulthood for many.

I've always thought using oneself as a sketchpad, color palette or pin cushion was a sign of boredom and personal feelings of inferiority. If you have nothing to talk about or people seem to ignore you, color your hair orange and stick a rivet through your cheek.

People who choose to be parents (and it is a choice) need to be ready to be responsible. Just as one for instance, having a plethora of visible tattoos and other body adornment will slam most doors when applying for a white collar or professional job. Spending one's free time stoned (or drunk, same thing) doesn't lead to good behavior or example setting for the kids to experience.

Just a note about vegans/vegetarians and animals - for myself personally, and many ethical vegetarians that I know of, aren't inherently opposed to people eating meat. Rather, it's the horrendous life these animals lead before becoming meat that we object to.

It doesn't really bother me if a hunter goes out and cleanly shoots an animal that has otherwise lived a good life in order to feed his family. It does bother me to raise animals in deplorable conditions from birth until slaughter time. I just can't stand the thought of an animal suffering it's whole life to feed me a meal. It just seems selfish.

And while the Bible does reference men eating meat, it doesn't say it's okay to treat the animals like we do these days.

Also in terms of using the "rest" of the animal for leather - for the most part, the leather is NOT taken from animals where their meat has been used for food. Rather, these animals are killed solely for their skin and the rest is thrown away. To me, that is beyond wasteful. I wouldn't mind leather as much if it was a byproduct of the meat industry but it's not for the most part.

Just an FYI of some common misconceptions. I've been a vegetarian for 16 years now and started around 15 or so. I'm glad to see the more recent movements of better lives for some of the animals and people being more conscious of the meat that they buy as well as the raising and slaughtering practices. There's still a very long way to go but it's an improvement.

but didn't we baby boomers sort of start this whole existence in the 1960's when it was free love, rock and roll, and lsd? we only have ourselves to blame....

THANK YOU! So many interesting and thought provoking responses. I asked for objective and got just that. You have caused me to think, rethink, reflect and laugh (snidely's 'rivet in cheek').

In the baby's case, his paternal grandmother is nearby, constantly checking on him and is my source of information. She worries non-stop, because there are other ongoing circumstances I'll not go into.

As for the 'colorful' granddaughters, in other parts of the country, I claim ignorance, and yes, intolerance, for what they do. Eat as they may, but that ink is not natural. Now in my 70's, I've seen it all before, from the hippie movement to today's sagging pants. I understand the proclivity of youth... to conform to their peer groups non-conformity. (Don't they realize they all look alike?)

Clothing choices and hairstyles need not be forever. Music comes and goes, political leanings can mature... but physical disfigurements remain for the long run. Self-express to your heart's content, but as an employer, I would not want that person representing my organization... period! Even the military is currently rejecting those with lots of art and ear plugs. As for renting you an apartment... perhaps not.

Ingesting products that may or may not be addictive, yet can cause varying degrees of inattention/impairment, remains illegal in most areas. Would I want to hire/rent to them? Don't think so

It DOES matter how others view these young people. Especially those in a position to hire, promote, do business with, socialize with, etc. I simply hope these youthful choices do not ultimately derail their adult success and livelihoods.

I don't know that 'blame' applies to the freedom that younger people have now compared to what people had in the 1960's.

I tried to watch "Giant" the other night.
couldn't get my teeth unclinched, & when I thought the top would blow off my head, I stopped watching.

The way the women, *grown women*, were treated was appalling ("Leslie, you're tired, go to bed", when Leslie wanted to talk with the men after dinner, & her husband said it in front of all the couple's guests).

I'll take pink hair & tattoos any day over that kind of oppressive, restrictive lifestyle any day.

My mother used to laugh about how her future mother-in-law frowned when she (my mother) sat on my future father's lap.

My mother said, "Mama Texas went into the kitchen & brought a chair for me to sit in."

My parents were of the WWII generation, not free-love hippie freaks by any means (had that term been available at the time).
They were both Texas farm kids who had worn feedsack clothes & carried dinner buckets (syrup or sorghum molasses buckets) to school for their midday meal of syrup & biscuits.

& they still managed to bring Granny out of the kitchen with a chair to correct their scandalous behavior!

Things change, & each generation has its own expressions & rites of passage & so forth, its own row to hoe as my grandmother would have said.

I don't blame myself or my generation or anybody else for a young person having the freedom to have tattoos or a ponytail;
if I were going to claim responsibility, 'credit' would be a more accurate word than 'blame'.

& I've seen tattoos & ponytails on young people who have good jobs, managers & techies.

better than the IBM or FBI 'clone' looks that we saw in the past.

edited to add:

I was typing while OP was posting, & she said,

'Don't they realize they all look alike?'

Back in my mini-skirt, long straight blonde hair days, I would have turned up my nose & argued, but I think the answer is yes, they do realize they all look alike;
all the peers look alike, so they can identify with each other.

They look different from everybody else.

which is fine, because they're going to spend their lives with each other & their offspring, not with us, sad to say.

Dang, what a waste!
Just as I'm getting old enough to be any good at all, I'm obsolete!

also, I think that the corporate & military powers-that-be will relax their attitudes about tattoos; they'll have to.

It seems like every other healthy young person I see has at least a little butterfly or a purple rose or a cross.

This post was edited by sylviatexas on Wed, Jul 30, 14 at 13:43

chi83, I believe you mistook what I wrote. I was talking about what God intended according to the Bible, not what is often done now. I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers on cowhide, but according to PETA they report that 20% of profit from a slaughtered cow is from selling it's hide. Ostrich hide on the other hand is from the bird being killed just for its hide.
I don't condone the way some breed and kill animals either. The sad thing is, unless you buy your meat straight from a local farmer, it's hard to tell just how the animal in question was treated.

Justgotabme, I apologize, I wasn't aiming my comments directly at you but your post reminded me of multiple times I have been told that being a vegetarian is going against the Bible. You didn't say that :)

I don't have any sources for my numbers. I was just trying to speak generally as I know there are always exceptions. My understanding (and trust me, I would love to be wrong about this) is that it's not often cost effective to try to preserve the skin when processing animals for meat, and there are too many chemicals involved to use meat from a cow that was used for leather, so different cows are often used for each. Quite frankly I won't be doing any research as the articles and pictures depress me but again I hope I am wrong about that.

But I think we can both agree that animals aren't treated as well as they should be!

If you have a corn product & a legume product (beans, peas, peanuts), you have all the amino acids.

You can get your protein from beans & corn.

Someone please explain to me the conflict between owning a dog and being vegan?

I'm truly not getting it. Lol

I wasn't sure chi83. Since I know how the written word can so easily be miss understood, I wanted to make sure.
I have no real proof, other than an article I read about it that quoted PETA. I was actually shocked to hear that from them.
And yes, we can both agree that animals are not always treated as well as they should be. I don't even like killing bugs. Well maybe a mosquito. Luckily, that rarely happens as I head inside long before they come out.

Phillyfog...I was wondering the same thing.

Dogs are omnivores;
they eat plants & they eat animals.
I don't know if a dog can thrive on a vegetarian or vegan diet.

I do know that cats are obligate carnivores (have to have meat), & they can't survive on a vegan or vegetarian diet;

Hopefully the dog isn't on a vegan diet. I have 4 cats and they all eat meat. I know people who feed their cats vegan cat food and it makes me mad. I firmly believe humans can thrive on a vegetarian diet but not cats! Dogs have a little more flexibility but I still don't think it's optimal.

Cats have to have taurine;
taurine is only found in meat.

Feed a cat a vegetarian or vegan diet & the cat will die.
after going through he!! first.

If you observe a vegetarian or vegan lifestyle, you just cannot have a pet cat.

To do so is to kill that animal.

slowly.

Here is a link that might be useful: taurine deficiency

This post was edited by sylviatexas on Wed, Jul 30, 14 at 21:17