Ugh! Glad I don't eat meat.

Definitely not pleased to read this.

geeze and I thought finding American/Cananadian honey was bad....

We've been having complications and trying to make a few waves, as the U.S. requirement of certificate of origin has caused complications for cattle raised in Canada and shipped over-border for slaughter and distribution.

Maybe consumers had better lobby for more disclosure of the paths followed from not only birth to death ... but the aftermath.

Some years ago the right-wing political types up here yelled bloody murder when our government made a (partial? full?) takeover of one of our oil companies (pretty well all foreign-owned).

Recently, when the major, state-owned oil company in China, a communist state, so I've heard, wanted to buy a major Canadian oil company ...

... that was O.K. with them!

As was it for one from Indonesia - with close ties to government, I think.

But, thern ... who ever claimed that human beans are consistent?

ole joyful

This doesn't make sense; too much export/import. Who certifies that what comes back was 'grown in the USA'?

I'm not buying seafood products, thanks to BP and others. I'm about to stop buying pork products, based on this.

Soon we will all be drinking the new semi-liquid nutrition I read about in a recent issue of The New Yorker. It's the consistency of pancake batter and made from non-animal proteins and (whatever the other basics humans need to survive). It was developed by some braniacs who wanted to save the time it takes to prepare and eat *food*. The inventor has been living on it for a few years. Now it's starting to sound better and better to me!

Yuck!! You mean they are shipping live animals to China for slaughter? This doesn't seem feasible, and if it is, can you imagine the conditions they would travel in? I guess the port would be "fresh" pork roasts as well as ham products.

The meats will probably be cheap and sell well as many people don't pay too much attention to these things.

Socks, I didn't think about the effect on the animals. That's awful!

Years ago I read about a pig who swam out into a lake to save a little boy from drowning. I decided there and then that pigs were too smart (not to mention compassionate) to eat. I know that doesn't make a lot of sense; after all, cows and chickens could be geniuses for all we know. But now I'm especially glad I eliminated pork and pork products from my diet.

That is very bad news, I think. How is the average person supposed to know these things and make informed decisions?

I can't imagine shipping live animals to China for processing. How could that possibly be cheaper than processing them here?

This is old news, it was announced over a year ago. In testimony last summer to a Senate committee, the Smithfield CEO said "There should be no noticeable impact on how we do business".

The suggestion that animals or bulky food product ingredients would be shipped from North America to Asia and back strikes me as rather unlikely, but I guess anything is possible. What was the source of your information?

For anyone looking to avoid eating unnecessary chemicals and unnatural ingredients, American-processed hams, sausages and other cold cuts are probably a good place to start. Should they be processed somewhere else and shipped here, I don't think that would change my view any.

There's nothing shocking about this. It's simple economics. People in the US eat a LOT of meat (often at every single meal) and not only do they want a lot of it, but they want it cheap. If meat were to double in price, people would howl in protest. These companies know that they need to supply a lot of meat at cheap prices to meet the consumer demand, and unfortunately this often leads to things like this.

My dream is that people would hunt their own food to remove the entire disconnect and willful ignorance of the industry, but I don't see that ever happening. Second wish would be that people support their local food producers who sometimes use more humane practices. This is becoming more and more popular but I don't see it becoming mainstream due to the extra cost.

I don't eat meat, but I do eat eggs, and I pay $8/dozen for local eggs from chickens I know have good lives. I also get organic produce delivered to my house from local farms. It's more expensive but it's my personal priority to support people who try to make a difference.

This is old news, it was announced over a year ago.

Well, it was news to me, and clearly to some other KT members. I don't mind "old news" (which sounds like an oxymoron).

What was the source of your information?

Two newspapers, neither of which I was familiar with. But I agree with you, Snidely, that the shipment plan I described doesn't make a lot of sense. So I researched this further.

Most of the articles on the topic are written for people knowledgeable about international business, which I'm not. But I did find this:

Larry Pope, who will remain Smithfield's CEO, said during the joint interview in New York that the acquisition will benefit Smithfield and U.S. hog farmers by expanding sales of pork products that aren't widely exported to China today. For instance, Smithfield will ship more hams, shoulder meat and other muscle cuts to China. Most pork shipped to the Asian nation has consisted of pig feet, stomachs and other cuts that Americans typically don't consume, he said.

This sounds like the pigs will be both grown and butchered in the U.S. If so, that's reassuring. For now.

Living in Virginia (near Smithfield), this wasn't new to me, but it is troubling. I don't trust the Chinese with our food. I won't even buy products from China for my dog, I'm sure not going to eat it. My doctor keeps trying to get me to become a Vegan. If this keeps up, I just might have to!

The last time I bought pork was when I shared a whole hog with a couple of other people. The hog was bought from a local farmer. It was very good. But I don't buy pork in the store. It has a funny taste to me for some reason. I also buy beef from a guy my DH works with. He doesn't have a large farm. He only grows the animals for himself and his family. He also raises a couple to sell to the guys at work. It's a win win for both of us.

You might be shocked to know that very similar sentiments expressed (and misunderstood) by some of you concerning possible impurity of Chinese food products are widely held outside the US with regard to some US food products.

US meat products have been banned off and on for years by European countries and by Japan and other Asian countries because many items have been considered to be contaminated. It's been for different reasons at different times but some have had to do with the widespread US use of things like hormones and antibiotics with food animals that leave a residue in the meat. At other times its been because of other contaminants. Many common practices used by American "industrial food processors" are not permitted in other countries.

Returning to a hunter economy isn't going to happen but our food supply chain sucks compared to practices in other countries. Standards and practices are low, compliance with requirements are lower and inspection is inadequate. It's not rocket science, the European countries have found ways to produce much healthier and cleaner food than we do. In the meantime, the use of local producers in lieu of the large scale offenders may be better. But it is more expensive.

I don't trust the Chinese with our food. Not sure how much I trust Americans either. Arkansas has an environmental nightmare going on right now with an industrial scale hog farm (CAFO) that was allowed to be situated too close to the Buffalo River. Even without the location issue, there have been problems with this type of farm in other states. Doesn't matter where they slaughter the hogs. Raising them this way isn't healthy.

I've been thinking about pork lately.

One of my friends asked about a sandwich at an open house.

The hostess said it was turkey, & my friend said,
"Ok, I'll eat that.
I thought it might be ham.
Pigs are intelligent.
I won't eat pork,
but turkeys are stupid.
I'll eat turkeys."

Then I went to another get-together, & a young woman from Pakistan asked the same question.

the reason being, of course, that she was Muslim, & they, like Orthodox Jews, do not eat pork because it's forbidden by their religion, *& there's a reason that these very old religions warn people not to eat this stuff*.

So I'm thinking, pork *does* sound disgusting.
I draw the line at calling it unclean, because so many times unclean is a word that's used as a weapon, but still...
it does sound nasty.

& pigs *are* intelligent.

& if you eat a legume product & a corn product, you get all your amino acids.

so I'm liking the idea of beans on a corn tortilla, with a nice salad!

ps: Calamari is octopus, or squid, which are also intelligent animals.
I won't eat them either.

God made beans for a reason.

edited to add:

Regarding the restrictions against US exports in Europe, my friend who won't eat pigs but who will eat turkeys is also a horse lover.

She campaigns for prohibition of horse slaughtering plants for humane as well as human health reasons.

She says that the meat from American horses is banned in many Europeans countries where eating horse meat is common, because American horses are given so many hormones & anti-biotics & vaccines.

which reminds me:
I stopped going to Burger King years ago when I noticed that I got sick every time I ate there.

Not too long ago, I read that "horse DNA" (horse meat) had been found in their burgers.

& I haven't done it yet, just because I forgot, but I'll try to call Bentonville this week.

I was in the W store the other day, reading labels, & I needed dog food.

I could not find the country of origin for their Ole Roy brand.

Maybe I just didn't understand, but it seems that the distribution center was named, but I couldn't figure out where the stuff was manufactured.

This post was edited by sylviatexas on Wed, Jun 4, 14 at 21:35

Well, I can't donate blood anymore because I ate beef in Germany in the 80s. They used to feed their cows spinal and brain tissue from other diseased cows with "mad cow disease".

Oh, Kathy, I'm so sorry that happened.

"They used to feed their cows spinal and brain tissue"

That is truly disgusting.

Cows are *herbivores*.
They are *vegetarians*.

disgusting.

Does anyone remember the movie "Soylent Green"?

Kathy, that's awful. I'm sorry you had to deal with that.

We may have to take another look at turkeys. A friend of my daughter's was watching some baby turkeys take flying lessons yesterday when it began to rain. The mama turkey flew up to a tree branch and spread her wings. Her chicks gathered underneath them. I saw the remarkable photo that resulted. Not so stupid after all. ;-)

Last time I was at SAMs I wanted some salmon but walked out without it. It was farm raised in South America, processed in Norway To much shipping for me!

An early-twenties guy, Rob Rhinehart, has invented a product he calls Soylent. (Yes, he knows the objectionable association.)

He invented this liquid nutrition to save himself and his fellow techies *time* away from their work. He also wanted something better than the fast food they had been eating.. He's been living on it for a couple of years and awaits FDA approval to market it.

Objections it seem to be primarily social (and olfactory). People living on Soylent wouldn't interact over cooking and eating together. (Consumption results in flatulence for new users.)

Soylent is made of lab chemicals that provide the proteins, vitamins, acids, etc. known to be required by the human body.

You can google Soylent for more. The story I read was in a May issue of The New Yorker, where the author judged Soylent bland, similar to a sweetish pancake batter, and quite filling.

Rhinehard has suggested that Soylent could be a public utility, piped into your home like the water supply.

I'm curious about how the human digestive system could adapt to a lifetime of Soylent, but we do feed some patients a liquid diet, sometimes for years.

What a profound concept!

Somehow a diet of lab chemicals doesn't appeal to me, Chisue. ;-)

When I mentioned the pork- (and chicken) China connection to a friend, she said Dr. Oz devoted a show to it. I Googled it, and here are the results. I haven't looked into any of them yet. I'm not a big Oz fan, but there might be something interesting here.

Dr. Oz and the China connection

I only use Perdue chickens. I hope Mr Perdue doesn't send his chickens
to China!

Clubm......the Humane Society of the US has filed two class action suits against Perdue for false advertising for claiming their chickens are raised humanely. Perdue most likely follows standard industry practices, which are pretty disgusting. You can't necessarily believe what is on the label.

The hogs will still be raised here, but slaughtered and packaged for sale there before being sent back here.

You have been misinformed. Hogs are not shipped to China for slaughter and the product then shipped back for resale. That is absolutely not true. I can't say that some part of the animal might not come back in pet food or other products - but as meat you would buy in the grocery store. No way.

I live in the largest pork producing area in the world. The hogs do not travel that far for slaughter.

Are pigs smart. Smarter than turkeys? Who knows and it is kind of a ridiculous though. Pigs are pigs for crying out loud! LOL If you have ever been around them (production hogs - not your pet pot belly), you would personally like to kill off every damn one of them. My DH said life is too short to raise hogs.

A sow will kill and eat her babies if they are not protected from her. A hog would kill and eat you too!

FWIW - turkeys are not dumb either. A wild turkey is a very smart animal

She campaigns for prohibition of horse slaughtering plants for humane as well as human health reasons.

Let me tell you how well that worked out. Instead of being shipped a short distance to slaugher and a quick humane death... horses were either left to starve or shipped to Mexico on very crowded semis with no food or water. Do you think slaughter plants in Mexico have clean and humane standards like a US one does. Nope. NOPE! My DD - who would lay down her life for a horse gave many speeches about why there SHOULD be horse slaughter in the US.

Wasn't award there were two class action suits against Perdue. Interesting!!

Pigs are pigs for crying out loud! LOL

Yes, they are. And dogs are dogs, cats are cats, and humans are humans. I'm not sure I understand your point.

A hog would kill and eat you too!

I can think of lots of wild animals who would do that. Does that make them bad? If so, what does that say about humans, world-class predators that we are?

Earlier in this thread, I retracted my misinformed statement about the shipment of pigs to China.