I was lucky. My immediate family wasn't at all formal, but I was exposed to different lifestyles and learned from the example of my parents and others. Although I don't relate well to people who place a great emphasis on appearances, I know how to behave myself.

Writing that last phrase reminds me of this book, jkayd. Maybe you'd find it reassuring. Although I don't think I ever read it, I was a big Peg Bracken fan, and I'll bet it's good.

As you can tell from my answers to the daily Trivia Quiz, I totally lack in social graces. I say what's on my mind with little filter. When I was younger, I was unaware of different cultures and their practices. I have learned a lot and enjoy other cultures but I still feel socially awkward. I am rather introverted though so that may have something to do with it.

Having said all that, there are different types of social graces.....for different occasions. Funerals tend to bring out the worst in people.

I guess I would have to say not really, although I am a very observant person and have taught myself the way to act by observing. It's an interesting question, because I come from an educated family of doctors and lawyers and military officers, yet I don't remember ever having been specifically taught what was proper behavior. I learned the proper way to set a table and what all those odd little thingies were from working as a banquet waitress at a fancy hotel when I was in college. I write thank you notes, but don't ever remember my Mom teaching me to do that. I taught my son how to treat a young lady by opening a door and holding out a seat for her because I wished I had been treated that way (but that's more because of the losers I dated).

I guess it depends on what you mean by social graces.

I know what fork and knife to use so that at a dinner party or restaurant I know I don't embarrass myself. I don't eat with my elbows on the table or with my mouth open. I know to tip at a restaurant and to help my hostess if it looks like some help would be nice.

I know how and when to say please and thank-you and have even learned, through the years if necessary when I've screwed up, to say I'm sorry.

I know how to offer to help my neighbour without being interfering. (A friend broke her shoulder skiing a couple of weeks ago and I know driving her places is required. I have offered to do that and am doing so. I know that bringing her dinner, as well would embarrass her so other friends are doing that)

But, as dees mentioned and as a fellow introvert, I'm not good with idle chit-chat at cocktail parties or those business dinners of DH's that I no longer bother attending. I don't suffer fools or braggarts lightly and will walk away from that type of conversation. Is that poor social graces or not - I look at those who dominant conversations with their silly little lives as having poor social graces.

I don't think that social graces are overrated but I think that the basics of pleases and thank-yous to everyone (the mailman if you see him, the checkout people, the busdriver, etc) go a long way to making someones day. And that's a social grace.

That, coupled with a smile, and you've got a good start on social graces.
` I have a friend who still writes thank-you notes and that is impressive. But I have two nieces and I sent them both gifts for their new babies about 6 weeks ago (I know they're busy) but I haven't heard a peep out of them. I would settle for a quick note on facebook. ~Now, that is poor manners. I also sent a couple of chocolate bars to the grandma (my sister) who was actually visiting this weekend and didn't hear a thank-you from her either so.....

dees - I think that speaking without a filter is not a sign of poor social graces - it's just a sign of who you are.

My parents weren't raised with many social graces. They didn't raise us with them either. What I know, I've often learned on my own. Sometimes it would be nice to have more. I've found some people hide their rudeness and nastiness behind social graces. I don't have a lot of respect for that. My parents tried to to teach us kindness, honesty, and respect for others. I find I tend to search for people who have those traits.

I suspect that the majority of us 'of a certain age' learned those 'social graces' by observation and the cultural need of the 50's to better ourselves and provide a better life for our children. I observed and learned and I did teach my children all those 'manners' so that they were (and are) always welcomed and mostly comfortable in any
environment, at least when they were younger. (I sometimes wonder now days!)

I just now remembered that when getting ready for our first overseas assignment, there was an "orientation' by the Marine Corps, where we were actually given "rules of behavior"...or something like that. My goodness it covered many rules of etiquette and included a book or booklet.. Fortunately they were not foreign to me..... as I also remember learning many of those in my "modern" Jr, High School in San Francisco. I suppose the "need" was pretty obvious, as so many folks (like mine) left farms in the Mid-west, for better lives ahead.

Now days you can observe that ALL kids are being taught 'manners' as they progress thru school. (Don't know what happens in Hi School tho!)

I too had too had "learn as you go" when it comes to social graces.
I remember as a child going to a friends house and not knowing how to set the table correctly. The mother showed her annoyance. Not nice on her part, but I learned that there was a whole other world out there.
Going to college and interacting with others also showed me how to ways of conducting myself.
And, as an adult, living in an upscale neighborhood, you can't help but development at a bit of refinement.

I think blfenton summed it up pretty well.

mine came from sunday dinners with "aunt rose"...I'm pretty sure she was born in less than perfect conditions, but was self taught...she set a perfect table every sunday. it was white linen, crystal, and sterling....and starting around the age of 3-4 it was taken in....along with general conversation...

having raised around adults more than "surburb" families, learned early on how to treat elders, and be seen and not heard, lol....while my kids do behave in their adult situations they're more relaxed these days with their own children...wish it was otherwise...

the situation coming up soon, is the new person in my dd2's life...he's coming here on business, and we're going out to dinner after...my dh is much more relaxed, so will follow his lead, lol...

Having grown up on a farm, with no Mom after age 6, and hired help and Grandma, I remember when I went up a class in Sunday School in a liberal Protestant church in our village, when the teacher called each person's name and s/he replied, "present" ...

... I figured that if everyone else was going to get a "present" ... that I might as well get one, too, so gave the same answer.

I don't recall how long it took me to learn the facts of life regarding that situation.

ole joyful

Thumbs up on this:

Had Easter lunch at my place, with son, his lady and my grandson.

Received in the mail, today, the nicest, sweetest, kindest "thank you" card from the lady guest.

The thought is greatly appreciated.

She came Christmas Eve, for dinner and church, and Christmas morning she called to thank me for a wonderful evening.

That's thoughtful!

That's a nice surprise, Glenda. You can really tell someone's character by what they do "behind the scenes" and it sounds like she wants to make a good impression!

I had something similar happen last Thanksgiving. I hosted it, and invited a friend of a friend who I had never met before. Not only did she insist on helping me with the dishes as I prepped dinner, but she brought me a hostess gift as well as sent me a hand-written thank you note in the mail a few days later, thanking me for the best meal she's ever had.

I was floored - it was the first thank you note I've ever received. Everyone always thanks me, but it's generally verbally, which I am perfectly fine with. It was just such an unexpected and thoughtful gesture. I've picked up the habit in hopes that it will make others smile like it did for me.

She's definitely on the guest list for this year!

I (should) thank the military family of my childhood friend who showed me by example how to act at dinners. We were a fairly simple family with nice enough manners, but not much exposure to the niceties of society. Betsy's mom never said word-one to me but I'm sure she saw how closely I watched all of them when we sat down to eat. She was a lovely lady and now it's too late to thank her. :(

I think what Glenda said about her son's lady friend is a great example of social graces. I think it also includes things like being inclusive in a group and not carrying on you own private conversation with one person while ignoring the others. Other examples that come to mind are knowing how and when to give and receive a compliment, express condolences, and showing consideration to all kinds of people.

Yes, my sister and I were taught the social graces. My family was very close friends with the parish priest and lots of nuns from the priory. One of these folks (or more) seemed to be at our house during the day for visits, so we had to use our social graces OR else! LOL

Do I practice them today? Not as often as I should.

"Social graces" is a rather wide-open term, but I like Fran's description.

Have you ever read Browning's poem "My Last Duchess"? In it a nobleman explains his dissatisfaction with his former wife. She treated everyone with love and kindness...not exclusively HIM.

My mother was not royal, but that was the example she showed me.

You can read Emily Post to discover which fork to use for the fish course or how to write a bread and butter note. Social norms are useful to let people know what's expected -- a sort of lubricant to society. You can teach people those manners, but an empathetic grace is more important.

It is also much easier to BE considerate if you are not pressed with many worries -- health, money, whatever. I don't recall the source, but someone once said, "Be kind, for everyone is fighting a great battle."

fran1523 gave some really good examples of social graces - especially the one about gracefully accepting (and giving) a compliment.

I'm no expert on social graces that's for darn sure (I use a phone call the next day to thank some one for a great dinner when in fact a thank-you note is probably better) but I did have to teach a friend of mine how to gracefully accept my buying her a cup of coffee. We switch back and forth with no specific schedule. Sometimes we buy our own and sometimes we buy each others. She would always say "no, no, no don't do that, don't bother" when I offered. I finally told her to accept it gracefully and just to say "Thank-you". She does now. She's a good enough friend that I figured I could just come out and say it.

Been thinking about this a bit more. Life has taught me that you treat others as you would like to be treated, open doors for others, say good morning/afternoon/evening when you first encounter someone (like the checkout clerk), say please and thank you and most of all, be polite. Granted you can be upset or angry over a situation but that doesn't give you the right to take it out on the first Joe you encounter.

Those things are most important. I probably have used the wrong bread plate or coffee cup at round tables but I can make fun of that without offending anyone. And if *that* offends someone, we won't be hanging out.

Lots of good comments here. When I talk about social graces I don't mean table manners so much. It's the knowing what to say and when to say it or what to do, how and when.

I always try to be kind and friendly but lack some follow up skills like thank you notes because frankly I don't know how to say things.

Being loud and making crude remarks are some of the examples of what I call bad manners and probably not even knowing or caring how their behavior looks..

Have I opened a new can of worms here?

I learned all of that at home, including grammar, to excess. My mother was nearly obsessed with "what will people think". That saidâ¦..

I never knew what to say to someone who had lost a loved one until my ex DH's funeral, when I found that many people felt the same way and just a big hug went a long way with me.

Something that hasn't been mentioned is RSVPs. This is such a sore subject with so many people because of the lack of responding, waiting until after the response date, etc. Completely thoughtless come to mind.

I learned the same thing as wantoretire, no need to say anything, a hug goes a long way. If I really want to say something, I usually say, "I have no idea what to say, except, I am very sorry." It works too.

The older generation aren't the only ones who were taught or know anything (my young teen son is far more polite than most men I encounter these days. Even white haired men. What happened to getting the door? People are in such a hurry to rush through the door (even if I am pregnant, have a broken leg, carrying something and am stuggling to get the door open, they rush right in as though I was getting it for them!)). I'm surprised how many people, old and young, who do or don't have polite manners. It's widespread among all age groups.

I think this has been a great discussion and it evolved like conversations should. No can of worms to worry about in my opinion. I loved your description Chisue.

My maternal grandmother was a master of social graces and taught all of her eleven children the same. They carried on the tradition. Every Sunday we'd go to her gorgeous home and she would have a sit down dinner for all my aunts and uncles and our family. We would all be finely dressed. My Mom was the first one to marry. She set a table that was just beautiful. She was kind, loving and funny yet demanded that we all learn to act accordingly. To this day, all my children and their children send thank you notes, the men stand up when a woman comes to the table, etc. I like it. I miss the days when all men were gentlemen. I'm not saying I'm a stickler like her, heck we eat very casually most days but, if guests come, it's all out fawncy as we say in Boston. I'm horrified when I go to visit someone and some of the people don't even acknowledge that you've arrived. I've been to homes where no one escorts you to the door, these are small examples but becoming a lost experience. Oh, and my biggest pet peeve, is being called "you guys' in a public place. It's so crass.

Like the OP, I too was born in a town and a family that didn't teach the social graces, table manners, that sort of thing. Moving from avery small town to a large city at the age of 19, I was definitely out of my element. Being an introvert and shy did not help matters.

Although I would be at a total loss if I were to have an audience with the Queen, I do try to use proper manners. To the best of my ability.I've always written thank you notes, taught my children to write thank you notes, been prompt about RSVPing, etc. I also take hostess gifts. I will say that I have often had people scoff at my efforts to be proper.
I wish that I had had a role model for this sort of thing. my older sister and I were just talking the other day about our Aunt, my dad's sister. She is 93 now, and always a lovely, cultured lady. We both wished that we had been able to spend more time with her, growing up, but our mother didn't allow that. I always thought she was jealous!

No can of worms opened. This is a good discussion.

Like rob333's son, my son always knows what to say in what could be an awkward situation. He was born knowing what to say, perhaps he has a high empathetic level.

I too have learned that a hug goes a long way. It sounds like thank-you notes go a long way as well. I think this is something I'm going to learn to do.`

A small irritant of mine is when I buy something and say Thank-you to the salesclerk and the response is "no problem" instead of "you're welcome" or even a follow-up "thank-you" or the silly "have a good day" . But "no problem"!?. Where did that come from and how did it become defined as good manners. If it is a problem you need to find another job.

In terms of social graces - is talking on a cell phone for all to hear your personal (and usually mundane business) poor social graces? Especially when you're doing it while at the cash check-out so that not only are you irritating everyone around you but you're also being rude to the check-out person.

Do social graces need to be updated or is it just a matter of being mindful of being considerate to those around you. As someone mentioned, kind of like remembering to open a door for someone or letting those in the elevator out before you try to barge in. Am I making sense?

I think we learned a fair amount about social graces at home. The lesson particularly impressed upon me was that, in conversation with others, show interest in the other person rather than talking about myself. I still refrain from divulging much about myself (others have told me that "I'm hard to get to know"). I also continue to be rather appalled at the many people who come off as completely self-absorbed and never even "see" you in conversation (if that makes sense).

The "no problem" thing doesn't really bother me that much, I take it more as a feeling than literally if that makes sense. At least they are responding in a friendly manner and not ignoring me. I hate, hate, hate people yakking on their cell phones in public. I think it's become somewhat less of a problem lately since it's easier to send a text or two, but you will still encounter those speaking in a loud voice for all to hear.

I recently didn't RSVP to two "events" I was invited to. While I feel kind of bad, I was really irritated to be invited to them. They were a Lia Sophia jewelry party and some kind of a purse party, both given by different women that I work with. I really hate being used by acquaintances to make them money under the guise of a wine and cheese party. Please do not invite me to any tupperware, pampered chef, silpada, sentscy, etc. etc. parties.

My Mother taught me how to behave "in public". She was the nicest lady I ever knew.

I'm guilty of using "you guys" when addressing a group. It's a habit I've had for a while! My grandma hates it though so I try not to do it around her.

I also answer "thank you" with "sure" or "no problem" or "of course" and sometimes "you're welcome." It depends on the setting. If it's a big thing or a more formal event I will say "you're welcome" but if someone thanks me because I hold the door open for them in the bathroom, I will usually say something like "no problem" because it wasn't. But I suppose it's personal - I've certainly never intended or inferred any disrespect by any of these responses.

There will always be standard social graces, like being nice and not chewing with your mouth open, but I think a lot of standards evolve. I am sure the ladies of several generations ago would be horrified by some of the perfectly acceptable politeness standards nowadays. :)

All that being said, I do especially love seeing children with lovely manners as it doesn't happen very often. Most have some manners, and will say please or thank you (though sometimes prompted!) but I mean the ones that go above and beyond that. I have a set of young cousins (8 and 12 years old) from Tennessee that I love to observe. Whenever their mother calls them, they get up, walk over to her and answer "ma'am?" instead of yelling "what?" like a lot of children do. Any questions from adults are answered with a "yes ma'am" or "yes, sir" and they will hold doors open, say "excuse me" if they need to speak while their parents are talking, and just overall are extremely polite without being prompted because they have been taught all their lives.

My grand children all thank us for gifts either in person or with a note. Our great grand children always want to know if there are more presents and no thank yous from them or their mother. I'm still waiting for a thank you card for her wedding gift. lol But her mother has always insisted that her children now all grown say mam or sir to their elders. Not as important to me if the young adults are respectful of their elders. So we usually but heads on this one. lol. My mom was parent less at the age of 14 with 6 siblings under her. She taught her 4 children well. We all know how to set a table and to write notes and be kind to one another. How to handle ourselves in many situations.
Mary

DH and I still remember the beautiful manners of a large, wealthy family from Mexico City who were aboard one of our cruises. They had a table in the center of the main dining room: Mama, Papa, eight or ten young adult children and spouses. The family would assemble at table. Mama would enter the dining room, smiling, beautifully groomed, wearing fabulous jewelry. The gentlemen all rose as she was seated. It appeared to be standard family procedure. Conversation was animated; the dinner was enjoyed. When Mama rose to leave, the table rose again.

For all I know, the family cursed and bit one another in private, but *in public* they knew how to behave -- indeed, how to set a gracious example.