My dad 'did my mom a favor' years ago in the vacation cabin we had...He built a sink cabinet a couple inches lower than standard since she was only 5'1". It was a killer. We didn't have a dw there, so only handwashing, and plenty of it when there was a crowd. It hurt all our lower backs, including that of my shorter mom. I would imagine the sink depth, in combination with the little bit lower counter, could make a difference to you if you're standing at the sink for any substantial length of time. Maybe a rack for the bottom of the sink when you're doing those longer tasks?

If your sink is 10 inches deep and is under-mounted, chances are good that the bottom of the sink is now around 4 inches lower than it used to be. Your sink might be placed further back than it used to be - sometimes granite guys want a thicker front edge than drop-in laminate mounted sinks needed.

Sometimes the depth can be moderated a bit by using a sink grid.

I think that's what I meant...Sink grid instead of 'rack.' --You can probably tell I don't have one. :-)

Agree with the other comments, your sink bottom is too low for you. Stand up comfortably straight in front of your sink, then bend forward enough to wash your dishes, and you'll see how much stress this puts on your lower back. Try the tallest sink grid you can find or reengineer one to your needs.

(I'm 5'10'' and disabled from a back injury, and my 36.25'' countertops are too low for me.)

I'd try a different faucet. I'm tall, my sink is 10 inches deep, undermounted and I can't put my knuckles on the bottom (only a Neanderthal could)-- but I don't need to to wash dishes. Only the few large things that soak and get scrubbed sit on the bottom anyway. Everything gets placed under the water stream. If you are reaching more for that, I suspect the lean is what is straining your back. If you have a pullout, try using that as much as possible and see if that reduces the strain.

Also, what is your floor material? A tile or stone floor will be harder on your back to stand on for long periods than a wood, cork or marmoleum floor. If the floor is the culprit, then you can buy a cushioned mat and place it in front of your sink area to stand on. I don't remember the name of the good one, but someone on here likely knows!

Also, if you sink is undermounted, the amount of countertop in front of the sink should be 4-5", no more. If more than that, you are having to bend slightly to use the sink. For other readers of this thread, still doing their kitchen planning, an apron front sink solves this problem because there is no countertop to reach over; the apron sink is right up against your body. Having said that, I have 4" of counter in front of my sink, and don't have back pain.

As someone else said, the faucet reach can contribute to back strain, I have a pull-out (not pull-down) faucet so I don't have to reach far to use my faucet. BTW, if you think your faucet is the problem, a switch to another faucet, while expensive (to purchase another), isn't very difficult, and could be something to consider for you. You could sell your old faucet on Craig's List or eBay, or give to Habitat for Humanity.

My new sink bottom was a couple inches lower than the old one and I immediately noticed the same problem.

I put a LOT more stuff in the dishwasher than I ever did before.

This is exactly why I never considered the new, deep sinks. Ouch! And the taller you are the worse it is since you're bending over more.

The so-called "standard" countertop height of 36'' was developed in the 1950s, I think. People were shorter, sinks shallower, maybe backs were better. My counters are 37'', my next counters may be 38''. I am 5' 11''.

Unless you can have the cabinets remounted with taller kicks - probably not - you'll have to use local fixes, which can work fine. Sink grid or sink rack - and do less hand-washing - which probably isn't a big sacrifice! Tall cutting board, like a 1.5'' butcher block on 0.5'' feet.

At this point, it would be hard to make any significant changes in your kitchen, so I thought of some other ways of managing your situation:

Have someone help you with dishes, so it doesn't take so long
Have someone else in your household have that as their family chore
Improve your back muscles by doing yoga, pilates or weight training

Hope you feel better!

Thanks everyone. I've been pretty upset at the fact that we've spent all this money for something that looks pretty, but isn't right. Hopefully we won't be here forever and I can do the next kitchen right!

BTW- My floor is wood.

I've started a new technique at the sink- squats! Lowers my center of gravity, and helps work of all the holiday food!

Sinks squats! LOL me too! I'm 5'10" with a new 10" sink and I noticed the strain immediately. I've improvised with an old dishwasher utensil rack. I put silverware and cutlery in there so they drain and don't scatter about the bottom of the abyss and it's great when you need your favorite knife...easy to find and give a quick wash...and I lift out the entire thing when I need it out of the way...AND the biggest help is I turn it sideways to prop up big pots and dishes for handwashing...

look you can't see it yet...
{{gwi:1588855}}

Here it is
{{!gwi}}

time for the pots & pans...
{{gwi:1588857}}

weidiii-thanks so much for that tip!! I was so looking forward to having this huge, deep sink and I've noticed my back hurting too and I'm only 5'6'. I'm going to take one of my DW utensil racks and try it in the sink. Floor is slate so I went out and got a gel pro mat. It does make a difference. You can order one online or pick one up at BB&B and use the 20% coupon!

spincrazy25-I can feel your frustration too! Never had back pain with old sink but this new one is undermounted and deeper so that's the culprit. The mat should provide some relief. I have also been using the DW much more!
Good luck.

A too-far-back faucet gives me backaches. I've gone for some pretty monster faucets in my time, from the double-jointed Chicago to the Hangrohe Allegro Gourmet.

I'm short, though.

It's the deep sink. I've always had backaches when washing dishes, until we moved into an apartment while building our new house. It had a very shallow sink. To my amazement, I had no more trouble with "dishwasher's backache."

So when we moved into the new house, with its 10" deep undermount silgranit sink, I decided to alter my dishwashing habits. I found a crisper drawer from an old fridge that happens to fit the sink, turned a plastic basin upside down in the sink and set the crisper on top of it. Presto easy peasy -- a "shallow" sink. No more backaches.

Spincrazy- try standing with your feet separated shoulder width or a bit more. It will make you a bit shorter and distribute your weight more to take pressure off your back. My physical therapist gave me this tip!

This is a VERY helpful thread.

I'm pretty amazed at the things we do for fashion (face it, it's fashion) that hurt our bodies: hard tile floors, too-deep sinks, stainless steel appliances and granite countertops that take more maintenance work, armless chairs, high heeled to-pinching shoes. (Not in the kitchen, but still . . . .)

Spincrazy,

For some odd reason I keep thinking you have tiny children.
Do you? I remember teasing your scenn name "Spincrazy"
thinking to myself. How does she do it, a reno,
a family, ... Being a mom with tiny ones puts strain on
the back. Bending to wipe faces, tie shoes, fix
boo boos and lifting our babies is hard on the back.

A baby under a year? For some reason I thought you
were expecting... I am forgetful, I could be totally wrong.
Maybe I am confused with another poster. If this is
the case this could surely add to back pain. I had the
most severe back pain carrying my little ones around.
But wow did my legs look awesome back then. : )

Sadly, Tall people have more back pain than others.
My sister uses therma wraps when doing certain chores
that require bending. Perhaps you could use these (you
can find these wraps or patches at CVS, Wal-greens)
patches or creams or wraps while doing dishes. You might
smell like an old lady the old Ben-Gay products but
it could help relieve pain.

And the most important suggestion is that your hubbie
do the dishes for a few months until your back is feeling
better. : )

Thinking of you and hoping your back gets better.
~boxerpups

I am convinced that the height of countertops, depth of sinks, reach of faucet and ovens, and to the back of the cabinets matter to the back as well as what is between one's feet and the floor joists. My back suddenly started severely hurting just before Thanksgiving. Of course, standing for long periods of time cooking, baking and cleaning is the hallmark of holidays.

The new kitchen floor is wood, but the old kitchen has had carpet for 24 years. A few rugs in the new kitchen have helped, and I wear shoes with good arch support and cushioned sole.

Be aware of your body's position while working. If your back is hunched, try lifting your task with a cutting board on the counter or something in the bottom of the sink. Sitting to work helps if you are-will be on your feet much of the day. A counter-height chair works well in front of the sink to peel lots of potatoes, carrots, apples and such.

Your back pain could coincidently be related to other things or exacerbated by them. Moving everything into a new kitchen, then reshuffling stuff to get it organized just right involves a lot of lifting, twisting and bending. Are you carrying groceries farther? Don't forget your mattress. It might be time to turn it for more support for an already sore back. Stress and tension also can effect the back. Once back spasms get started, even if the cause has been address, it is tough to relieve the pain.

I'm also tall (5'11") with a deep (10"), undermount sink, and even though I have a terrible back in general, I haven't experienced any back problems related to the sink in the two years I've had it. So, I tried to think about why.

I do have a rug that I stand on in front of the sink. My faucet has a pretty long reach and I use my pull down sprayer all the time. My sink is not set back that far--a little more than 3 inches--even though I have sink tip-outs. I have a grid in the bottom that keeps things a good inch closer to me. I do Pilates regularly, so my back is pretty strong. But the main reason my back doesn't get sore is probably that I don't do much hand washing. Everything but knives and cookware goes into the dishwasher after a quick rinse under the faucet. I don't know if it's any one thing or a combination of factors that has kept me pain-free, but whatever it is, it has worked.

And, by the way, for my other back issues, acupuncture has really worked wonders!

Before I forget, I would like to thank you for posting this thread. I had thought a lot about counter-heights, but had not thought much about sink depth.

I threw my back out a week ago, and some mornings it takes a few minutes of meaningful pain before I can even stand up straight. Working at my 8'' deep sink in my 37'' counter has been difficult. I will now definitely be carefully calibrating my sink depth to my height.

Wow- I'm glad this post has been helpful to others.I've definitely learned a few things myself.

Boxerpups- you are right, I have an almost three-year-old, and yes, I was expecting. Unfortunately I lost him when I was 15 weeks along. It was two weeks before we were set to start demo, and we decided to go ahead with it to keep us occupied. But you are right, I have back pain anyway, especially since my son still likes to be carried!

My mom always pulled up a stool. She would open the door beneath the sink, this was the days before DW's. I have saw a photo of a kitchen sink that had no under counter storage it had a place for a stool.

Spincrazy,
You poor darling. I am so sorry to bring up your loss.
I am hoping you get some relief from your back.

My two sisters suffer horribly from back pain. Younger
sister had to stay in bed for 4 months only moving 20 min
a day. My older sister did have back surgery but it did
not cure the pain, only eased it.

Thinking of you.
~boxerpups

Dear Boxerpups, no worries. Since I mentioned it way back when, I figured someone would have remembered. We're doing ok.

Check how far your faucet extends. I found that having a 10" extension makes a huge difference for my lower back, despite having a deep undermount sink. With an 8 or 9" faucet you may find yourself leaning ever so slightly forward which can strain your lower back.

It might help if you get a velcro back support belt from Home Depot. It's great for the lower back. I use one for vacuuming, gardening and anything else where I'm stretching by back. Also, strengthen your back muscles with yoga.

As a personal trainer who loves to cook, I'd like to contribute my thoughts. Cotehele is dead-on by observing that once spasms start, they are hard to arrest. Also, everything mentioned already about making things easier on the back to begin with (functionally raising the depth of the sink, using a DW, etc.) will result in less strain. An additional strategy is to think of your ankles, knees, and hips as the hinges that they are. Think of the back as a fairly rigid hoop that you don't want to flex (your chest drops and your low back rounds out) or overextend (your low back becomes very concave, or "sways") your back too much. Spincrazy's squats strategy is a good one! Some additional strategies to try: Stick your butt back a bit and keep your glute muscles (big muscles of the butt) engaged to a moderate degree. And activate the muscles surrounding your low back (front and back) by making your upper body--from hips to top of your head "tall and skinny."

I'm also a big fan of those foam rollers you may have seen at the gym. Using them can have the effect of a self-massage--but a deep tissue one, so be ready for some discomfort on your way to relief! I use mine before cooking long, involved meals. Hope this can help.

Our counters are 37 3/4'' high. They were supposed to be 37'', but with some uneven floor issues they ended up higher. After the counters were installed, it felt so high and I thought we made a big mistake! But after about a week, it didn't seem high at all...I adjusted to the new height very quickly.

I am only 5'4 1/2'' tall and I have always had back issues. Washing dishes always killed my back. The new counter height has been wonderful for me. My back doesn't hurt at all being at the sink now.

It is surprising that kitchen design hasn't caught up with good ergonomics when it comes to counter height.

Best wishes to all of you who are having back issues...I can relate all too well. I'm sorry I don't have any good advice on how to deal with it (although others seem to have some good suggestions). I just wanted to let you know that the height of our new counters has been a back saver for me. Amazing what two inches can do!

Good luck!

larweil12, tell me more about the foam roller and how to use it. At my PT's office (former, I don't go anymore), they had a foam cylinder that was about 3'long and 8" in diameter. The patient (not me, I was a hip patient) would lay the roller down and then lay on top of it with her spine aligned wiht the length of the cylinder. Is that what you mean? She'd just lay there for a while. This patient ooh'd and aah'ed over this $20 foam cylinder so much that I thought about getting one.

If that's not what you were talking about, please describe. Thanks!

I'm about 5'11" and I used to get backaches when cleaning up after a big dinner or party. Also in the bathroom I always felt like I was washing my face down by my knees. So when we did our reno we raised all the counters to 39" (kitchen and baths.) It's great for us! No more back aches. DH is 6' 3" and the kids are only 11 and 13 but already pretty tall. We built for livability rather than resale as we have no plans or reason to move. (Plus I think people get taller every generation - my grandma was 4' 11"!)

My mom on the other hand is about 5'4" and she doesn't at all like washing dishes in my deep sink.

So I'd say your back ache could be due to one or both of counters too low, sink too deep. Too much work to change the counters, so I like the idea above about rigging the sink to be shallower.

Also, if you are a "shoe off" house (like us) you might need to get some shoes with good support just for wearing inside. DH does that now due to heel issues and it helps.

Scootermom, that is one way of doing it. Another way is to roll the muscles on either side of the spine. The method you observed at your PT's is simpler and easiest for beginners. The other way may take a little bit of instruction. Either way, be prepared for a little discomfort before the muscles relax and "accept" the rolling.

bump

Thanks, larweil12! Spincrazy, I hope your back is feeling better. Have you found any techniques that seem to help?

good thread. at 5' i've been concerned about counter height and depth of sink. i was looking at deeper ones - guess i'll back off of that! and i was thinking of having my counter height at 34". will have to think on that more.

now my sink is rather shallow but the counter is higher. 35.5 I think it is. I do get backaches doing dishes - no dw here. but i also get backaches doing most anything that takes arm movement. feeding the dogs, cleaning up after them. filling their water buckets. doing those few things will cause my back to cramp up and I'm down for 30 min or more to relieve it.

No one else seems to mention this so it may be only me. We replaced our perfectly fine dishwasher last year during an update to match appliances. Nothing fancy, the only upgrade was the larger size tub, I was excited to have the deeper top rack. I hate it, when I'm loading my dishes on the bottom rack it feels like I'm putting them on my floor. It has made loading and unloading my most hateful job in my kitchen, it absolutely kills my back.

The DW has to be the least ergonomic thing ever invented. One feature that I've found that really helps with my back issues is the top silverware tray. No more bending every time I have to put a teaspoon in the DW. Yay!

We also have low silverware holder in dishwasher. Sometimes I just put larger utensil items in with the glasses in top rack, esp. the spatulas, ladles, potato masher.

I never open the dishwasher to insert a single item in lower door or in lower rack. There are days when the dishwasher is truly my enemy. (Gallon jugs of cider are also enemies of a bad back.)

I usually keep all silverware in a pile on countertop or soaking in sink until I'm ready to make the bend. I only go down there when forced to do so.
THEN,...I remove the utensil holder from the door of the dishwasher and plunk it on countertop to fill or empty it. One bend each way. Sometimes I just open the bin door on this gizmo and let all the silverware cascade into the drawer unsorted so I can heave it back into the dishwasher and out of my sight fast.

Sometimes I just wash things myself because it's more comfortable. I can see why people mount dishwashers higher up on wall. Wish I could.
___

Not sure which thread I saw this on, sorry if redundant posting, but will definitely put adhesive sound-deadening insulation inside the new dishwasher housing in my next kitchen. Great idea.

"There are days when the dishwasher is truly my enemy. (Gallon jugs of cider are also enemies of a bad back.) "

I agree. I probably wouldn't plan to get one except for the days I can bend somewhat. it won't be a daily activity for me tho! I also don't plan to use the lower basket as much - only for the very large items - a pot or baking dish. I don't use those that often anyway. it might be a once or twice a wk thing.

I wish my future kitchen was laid out differently so that I could put in the dw higher up.

a gal jug of water is my enemy. when i fill the jugs at my sister's house, i only fill them about half way.

if i fill 4 jugs at a machine, it is often 4 days until all 4 make it into my house!

I find that if I open the door on the cabinet below the sink and prop my right foot on the shelf, it takes a bit of pressure off my lower back.

Finally, some one addressed this issue. I am going to try a faucet that extends out further. Thank you.

Count me in as a "hater" of deep sinks. I'm not quite 5', and I hate using the sink in our breakroom at work. It's super-deep, like 20" or something ridiculous, and if I had to do more than just my lunch plate dish, I'd definitely have a back ache. I also tend to get water on my clothes as I reach down over the edge.

No, a standard depth sink is perfect for me. Bigger isn't always better.