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birchpoints

Would you accept a bubble in your cabinet skin?

BirchPoint
9 years ago

My contractor has applied skins to the side of our large appliance cabinet that has another run of wall cabinets and base cabinets running into it. There is a bubble in the skin that he applied about 5-7" in diameter. It is not hugely noticeable (but I noticed). They do not want to fix it because it requires taking down trim work and cabinets. They want me to accept it with the suggestion that I hang a magnetic knife rack there (I have a knife block). There have been so many problems and misses with this kitchen install (and house build in general) and everyone wants to get it over with and get out and get paid (BUT THEY KEEP SCREWING UP!). Am I being unreasonable to make them disassemble the trim and cabinets to fix this? WWYD?

Comments (37)

  • joygreenwald
    9 years ago

    My instinct is that no, I would not accept it. But you should post a picture.

  • Vertise
    9 years ago

    Sounds ridiculous. Please post pictures if it shows up.

  • BirchPoint
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    You are not going to be able to see it in the picture, I don't think. It is something you see when the light reflects off it from certain angles and you can feel it.

    But here goes...

  • BirchPoint
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Another...

  • bicyclegirl1
    9 years ago

    I don't see anything in the picture. Can you try to get a better shot?

    Even without seeing it, it doesn't sound like something that you should accept. If they're telling you to hang something over it, it's not supposed to be like that!

  • BirchPoint
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Here is a picture of another cabinet with a bigger bubble but easier for them to get to to repair.

  • Vertise
    9 years ago

    Can't see, but if it bothers you, as it would most people, they need to correct their mistake. It should look flat and solid, not look like laminated material bubbling off. Very nice cabinets that deserve to be finished properly in exchange for all that money!

  • live_wire_oak
    9 years ago

    The thing I wouldn't accept is the inconsistent reveal with all of the doors and drawer fronts. What brand are these?

  • BirchPoint
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Decora. It has been a nightmare. But, honestly, I haven't had THAT thought LiveWire until you pointed it out and now I'll probably be obsessing over it. I don't have a picture to post tonight, but where two cabinet doors meet, they bump into each other and you have to synchronize them to get them to close. The corner wall cabinet won't even close --- it bumps into the frame. I have complained about that but the rep says they need to acclimate and have consistent heat in the house. Some of them have been up since August and the heat has been set at 60 degrees for construction. I sure have not felt that I have gotten my money's worth of quality, but I am so worn down and I don't know what leg I have to stand on after so much of it is installed.

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    9 years ago

    The bubble is unacceptable and must be fixed with no extra charge to you.

  • jerzeegirl
    9 years ago

    Hmmm.....the problem with that is that by disassembling the cabinets to do the repair there is so much more that can go wrong. Isn't there a way to flatten the bubble without taking the kitchen apart? I know that when furniture bubbles there is a way to fix it.

  • practigal
    9 years ago

    The bubble must be fixed at no extra charge to you....

  • deickhoff0
    9 years ago

    Agree, must be fixed

  • BirchPoint
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thank you all for your responses. We meet with the contractor today to discuss it. Like I said, the cabinet on the end they are fine with fixing, but the cabinet attached to other cabinets they want to leave alone. I fear with Jerzeegirl that so much disassembly could cause more damage, but I just can't accept that bubble knowing it will only grow with time. I'll let you know what happens. This group is so helpful!

  • schicksal
    9 years ago

    Better fix it... it's not like the bubble would shrink over time. I'd expect the opposite.

  • iroll_gw
    9 years ago

    It's understandable that you are worn down, but doors bumping the frame and not closing is totally unacceptable. This is function, not looks (the bubbles being bad enough). Get it fixed now, before you pay them and they go, then you will have no leverage.

  • ardcp
    9 years ago

    re the doors bumping: i would think that can be fix with hinge adjustment but hopefully someone with more knowledge can say

  • jellytoast
    9 years ago

    "They want me to accept it with the suggestion that I hang a magnetic knife rack there (I have a knife block)."

    Good grief.

  • live_wire_oak
    9 years ago

    Exposed hinges like that have very minimal adjustments available. The only way that I would find the entire order of cabinetry "acceptable" would be if it were stored for 6 months in a garage in a Southern summer with 90% humidity, and they were just installed and the HVAC wasn't turned on. That would absolve the cabinet manufacturer entirely. Then, the issues would be owned by the GC, and I'd expect him to replace them because they weren't stored inside with climate control. If those were stored inside before install, with the HVAC on as it should be, then those are not unacceptable.

  • daisychain01
    9 years ago

    I would just walk through with them and point out calmly what needs to be fixed and walk away. This is what you paid for. It shouldn't be up for discussion, etc.

    I agree it is a tough call if the repair could cause more damage, but my gut is telling me that it could fail in the near future and the whole skin peel.

    I don't suppose there is a chance you could find someone else you trust more to do the repair work and deduct their cost from the original guys fee?

  • HomeChef59
    9 years ago

    Don't let them schedule countertop installation. Fixing this after the fact is hard enough, once the countertops are in, all is lost.

    I couldn't see the problem in the first picture, but the second picture is egregious. There are a lot of times that I see people posting on this website and I think they are being ridiculous. This is NOT one of those times. The bubbles are unacceptable under any circumstances. I don't care how much labor is involved, the installer needs to fix this.

    Don't be emotional about it. Be cold and precise. Tell them to fix it, it's unacceptable and leave. While you should always be polite and professional, you shouldn't have to accept this workmanship.

    The conversation should go like this: I appreciate your hard work. Thank you. The skins are unacceptable and need to be fixed. While you are at it, these drawers need adjustment, too. When I get back, I expect to see this resolved. How you repair this is not my area of competency , you are expert. Just see that it is repaired. End of discussion.

    Good luck.

  • jerzeegirl
    9 years ago

    Since they have already agreed to fix one of the bubbles, what method did they say they would use to eliminate the bubble? Do they have to remove the first skin and reapply a new one?

  • kingtutt10
    9 years ago

    I would not accept that at any price. Are your cabinets a baked on finish?
    That is not a hard fix but it is hard to hide the holes made to put more glue in on a baked on paint. The adhesive or glue was not at the proper temp or none at all in the defective area. The larger one I would tell them to redo but beware that if they make you a new cabinet the paint may not match perfectly.
    Do not pay them till you are happy with the repair.

  • daisychain01
    9 years ago

    home chef put it perfectly. I would use his/her words exactly. No emotion.

  • bicyclegirl1
    9 years ago

    I would listen to live_wire_oak, as well. She/He is so correct regarding the whole set of cabinets. I know you're overwhelmed, but, listen to what these great professionals are telling you. That's the beauty of this site! The information & support is what it's all about.

    Don't let them make excuses for anything or tell you to cover up a mistake or 2 with decorative items! Seriously?!? It's black & white..."When I get back, I expect to see this resolved." The end!!
    Good luck & let us know how it goes. You've got this!

  • JAAune
    9 years ago

    A bubble like that should be fixed but it would be interesting to evaluate the job together with the cost of the project. The general description of the project indicates a price-competitive contractor that bid low for the job and cuts corners to compensate.

    JerzeeGirl is right about the risk of having them dismantle cabinets. People who are in a hurry to finish a job and mess up then try to avoid fixing the mistakes by making weird suggestions don't sound ultra reliable.

    If you don't trust the company to do the fix, it might be possible to negotiate a discount then use that to pay for a more reputable company to fix the problem. That route has its own risks though. It's much harder for a third party to work on another's projects.

    I've worked on projects alongside high-end contractors and those guys usually locate and deal with problems before the customer knows they exist. They do cost more to hire but if you want a stress-free project, they're worth the money.

  • BirchPoint
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Pictures I took of the kitchen today.

    They wore me down again and I was prepared to "hang a knife bar" until I got home and read everyone's comments. They say they will do whatever I want but they feel the risk of further damage is greater than the bubble "with a knife bar or paper towel holder." The other bubble on the other end cabinet they can peel the first skin off and reapply another skin OR we have a large piece of solid wood panel left over that they say they can cut and apply as an end panel. I thought that proposal looked acceptable although not technically a perfect scenario as the base cabinet will now be 3/4" longer than the wall cabinet above it (but I thought this was preferable to skin).

    This kitchen is in Maine and I believe the cabinets came straight from the company to my house. We do not have air conditioning in the home, which is typical for Maine. The heat has been set to 60 F since September (some of these cabinets have been here since August).

    The contractor also agrees about the uneven reveals but says that is a Decora issue and they are not responsible for making that right, Decora must do it (or Decora must evaluate and contract them to do it). They have called for a Decora rep to come evaluate but I don't know when that will be happening exactly.

    The contractor thinks that the countertop CAN be installed and they could still remove that appliance cabinet afterwards to fix the skin (if that is what I want).

    I am not savvy about posting pictures. I set up this photo bucket account that I have linked to. When I follow the link, I then have to click on "Library" to see my pictures. If that doesn't work for you guys, I'll have to consult my resident college daughter computer expert tomorrow. :)))

    Here is a link that might be useful: Decora cabinets

  • BirchPoint
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Just to be clear and in hopes that this discussion pops up when unwitting customers are looking for information on cabinetry, these are Decora Cabinets owned by MasterBrand.

  • BirchPoint
    Original Author
    9 years ago
  • millworkman
    9 years ago

    Did you purchase the cabinets or were they supplied by the contractor? If he supplied them then getting the reveals correct is on him in my opinion. The bubbles can happen but sounds to me like they happened due to his error in installation.. His error he fixes, if he cannot remove, repair and replace properly he a) either hires someone who can or b) he buys you new cabinets. If you purchased the products and he supplied labor only then it gets a little more convoluted as he does not have much skin in the game. Just my .02 cents.....

  • BirchPoint
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thank you, millworkman. The contractor is a supplier for Decora cabinetry and they were totally supplied and bought through him. I haven't paid yet, thank goodness!

  • toolbelt68
    9 years ago

    A hypodermic needle and some glue could be used to fix the bubble, if the person using them knew what they were doing.

    The glue would be inserted via a small hole in the bubble (sharp needle should work), then spread around by pressing on the bubble. A heavy weight leaned against the bubble should keep it pressed to the cabinet until the glue dries. A small dab of filler in the hole and paint should fix it.

  • aries61
    9 years ago

    BirchPoint, your photo bucket is set as private and can't be seen by anyone. You need to set it to public and then it can be seen.

  • jerzeegirl
    9 years ago

    The hypodermic method is how bubbles on furniture are fixed (or slits made in the wood and glue inserted). The problem is how to get the heavy weight on a vertical surface and repainting the glue holes or slits afterwards. Personally, I think it can be done if you can figure out how to somehow clamp the heavy weight to the side of cabinet. Hopefully a giant clamp would work. In my opinion, this is definitely the least disruptive way to go.

    If the contractor is the Decora dealer then it's on him to contact Decora about fixing the drawers. Likely Decora won't deal with you directly since you are not the client of record (your contractor is). This actually happened to us where our contractor gave up and the cabinet company refused to deal with us directly since we were not their clients.

  • ardcp
    9 years ago

    i ordered medallion through a kitchen place. my furniture finished ends had weird gloop/spots on them. it was a finish flaw and my kd pushed to get decorative end panels at no cost to me to cover any flaws. possibly this could work for you however you would want to have the counter halted as in a perfect world it would be lengthend to accomadate the extra 3/4" this adds to the cabs. mine was done after the fact so the overhang on the granite is almost flush. no one else would notice but it is not the correct way to be implemented.

  • BirchPoint
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I think I have made the photo bucket account public. Sorry, I'm really computer illiterate!

    @ardcp, that is exactly what they have done to one of my ends that had a bubbling skin! Thank you for your post, it served to reinforce my thought that the reduced overhang would be no big deal.

    I stopped at the house today and all of the trim and cabinets had been disassembled and the skin removed without incident. What was characterized as an impossibility yesterday was quite doable today! We are all awaiting the arrival of the Decora rep to pass judgement on the reveals of doors and drawers.

    I did pass on the suggestion of the hypodermic needle to the contractor but as we were batting around options, the guy on site had gone ahead and done his thing. While this kitchen is not going to be the "kitchen of my dreams," I do have hope that the issues will ultimately be resolved and it will be a satisfactory kitchen! Thank you so much for all your input, it has REALLY helped!

  • toolbelt68
    9 years ago

    I would mount a block of wood onto a piece of plywood that was a tad larger than the bubble area.
    Another block installed onto a long board that would be laid on the floor reaching between the cabinet and the far wall.

    Another board would then be placed against both blocks of wood while the plywood was held in place over the bubble.
    Sort of like those security door jam devices.....

    Next, weights would be hung from the angled board. The weights would cause the plywood to press against the bubble while the floor board would keep everything from slipping. The more weights the more pressure. Old milk jugs would make good weights when filled with water.

    The angled board could be installed edgewise for strength with a nock near the top for the weights to hang from.