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Slashing costs on cabinets, is this ok?

beekeeperswife
12 years ago

My KD really wants the cabinets to not go to the ceiling for cost reasons. I want them up there. These are 9' ceilings. I have told him that the "all-the-way-up" is most important to me. So, we have just received round 2 of the drawings and cost estimates and we are getting much closer to the goal. He has kept the height, but changed the inset to overlay (not full overlay).

What do you think? It's what I have now, but will it look ok in the new house? Dare I ask what full overlay would cost? Would that look a lot better?

Every time he brings up, "if we reduce the height...." I just shut him down. I don't want to negotiate on this feature. He gets it now.

I guess I just need some reassurance that all will be fine.

Thanks

bee

Comments (95)

  • kellienoelle
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ahhh, so I am not the only one fighting with contractors! Everytime I come out of a meeting or get off the phone, I feel that I have gone 9 rounds. It shouldn't be like that, should it? And even worse is when they make you feel like you are being unreasonable with your requests, and bothersome because you are wasting so much of their time. See, I am getting tense just thinking about it.

    Glad you found somebody who listens to you finally! Sounds like a much better match for you.

  • beaglesdoitbetter1
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    LOL, Jason should remember us, he's still not done w/ our house! There's bedroom cabinets to install and a library laddar and he's making us vent covers and mirrors yet...

    One thing to note- Jason is great because there are a lot of amish working in the cabinet shop but he and his brothers who work in the shop and install are actually mennonite, which I gather is less strict because he uses email. I cannot tell you how many times we emailed back and forth on every little detail b/c my gmail box just says "hundreds" when I search for Jason. The ability to email is priceless esp. since you are far away.

    He also does CAD drawings that would rival any architect (someone on GW actually commented once that they were jealous of my architect's CAD drawings- which Jason got a big kick out of when I told him).

    You will NEVER wait very long for price quotes or changes. When you do get up-charged for stuff, which is rare, the up-charges are usually extremely small.

    Jason will also listen and make ANYTHING you want happen. We went through about 30 drawings (or more) to make my gathering room book cases work. He came up w/ ideas I never even would know to ask for (like the way he did my dog room steps so you open the bottom step and all 3 pull out), and he never said no to me on anything- including the 18 ft high ceiling book case that continues up at a triangle w/ library ladder. They also fixed mistakes made by others (the first granite people left a gap, they magically fixed it, I still do not know how to this day). And when something was done in a way that didn't look 100 percent right for whatever reason (like a window seat we planned that ended up intersecting a window frame oddly), they stopped what they were doing, came up w/ a solution and emailed us our options to fix it and then fixed it w/o any stress, hassle or cost to us.

    The great thing about the itemized quote is that you can see areas to save very easily. Jason also had absolutely no problem w/ me ordering things online if it was cheaper to do so (I ordered some rev-a-shelf inserts and some niches that went into the cabinets).

    Sorry, I am going on and on. I just really am so amazed every day when I see what they did for us and compare that to what we would have paid so much more for elsewhere!

  • beaglesdoitbetter1
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    BTW- I just went back to look at my quote. We took our cabs to the 9 inch ceiling too. Our up-charge for doing so was $40.50 per door. We did not do stacked cabinets, just taller-than-normal ones.

    The upset for inset for our bathrooms appears to have been $16.00 per drawer/door but that seems so low, it is hard to believe that is what it was..

  • muskokascp
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Bee,
    I was so happy to see you finally pick up all your ideas and move on and hopefully upwards. The recommendations and experience from beagle sound fabulous. I have my fingers crossed this will be the start of a fabulous new kitchen for you.

  • colorfast
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Bee, you are one of the reasons I check in here, I am rooting for you! Your new cabinetmaker sounds great...crossing my fingers.

  • motherof3sons
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Beagles - you made me chuckle with the Mennonite comment. Last spring DH and I attended many home shows. DH was talking to a cabinet maker who said, "Just email your plans..." I wasn't paying too much attention, but I whirled around and said, "You have email?" Smiling, he responded, "I am Mennonite, not Amish." Well, I think this young man is going to make our cabinets in a few months for our new build.

    We still chuckle about my surprised expression. By the way, his upcharge for inset - $7 per door/drawer. Very inexpensive. Anyone need a cabinetmaker in Illinois, let me know!

  • motherof3sons
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Bee - Our cabinets are going to the ceiling with a 6" trim board that will reduce the cost considerably rather than an oversized cab or extra stacked cabinet. Good luck!

  • chris11895
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ummm, do these wonderful craftsmen go to Massachusetts? Because if they do, I am in!

  • beekeeperswife
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I thought that the whole Amish & Technology thing didn't exist. However, the Amish man who fixed my roof had a cell phone. The part that made me chuckle when he complained that his tower near his house had been down and he wasn't getting his calls or voice mails. He said he would have to return calls from his office's land line. I think if the technology isn't right in their homes, they can use it. Come to think of it I saw an Amish kid on cell phone while riding in a buggy once....

    I talked to one of the realtors from 'the team" at the destination side. He was (I guess still technically "is") a custom home builder. He switched professions due to the lack of building currently going on. Anyhow he seems to think that once I get my numbers back from DW I should just sit down and have a heart to heart with my builder. Now it's Tuesday morning, still no word from original guy on the price changes from the meeting LAST Wednesday. I am so hoping that DW comes back first. That would be awesome. Anyhow this realtor said that you never know, DW is close to the builder's office and they might end up making him one of their vendors if it goes well. That's how they usually find the new vendors.

    Thanks for the good wishes. I do have a much brighter outlook now. Just keep the fingers crossed for me.

    bee

  • CEFreeman
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My initial reaction was a mental foot stomp, hands on hips and a big "It's ABOUT time!"

    It sounds to me like you can go right back to your original plan and start pricing all over again.

    Would you mind asking if they have any relatives in the Washington, DC/Maryland area? :) I'm not really kidding, but I know it's wishful thinking. I'd love to have the option on a few things I'm not talented to attempt myself!

    But then .... I just got the word I need new brakes, rotors, drums, shocks, tires, thermostat and a serpentine belt. Without my wheels to run around town, I'm nuttin!

    So ask for me? I'll add it to my dream list. :)

    I cannot WAIT to see what you come up with.

    Christine

  • beaglesdoitbetter1
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Bee I don't think it should be a problem to get your builder to let you use Dutch Wood when you just explain that it didn't work w/ the other people. We sourced quite a bit of stuff ourselves and our builder didn't have a problem w/ us using our own people. He actually found Dutch Wood when another lady who was building didn't like the first place he sent her too and went to DW because her neighbor had had her kitchen done by them. We weren't sent to DW first either, we were sent to the guy that the other lady hadn't liked. After he came up with a quote that was $30,000 over budget for the kitchen and couldn't even make exactly what I wanted (yup!) we told our builder we were going elsewhere and then he sent us to Dutch Wood (who came in $20,000 less for my exact kitchen). Now, after our successful experience, our builder is sending everyone to Dutch Wood.

    CEFreeman we're only about 2 hrs. from DC and they will go to DC they have already done it for someone else that found them from GW- the prices will be a little higher taking travel time into account though :)

  • jtkaybean
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    When we did our first kitchen and we were trying to cut cost our KD recommended the cheaper door style (shaker?). DH hated it so we cheaped out with our appliances.

    I can't wait to see your kitchen!

  • beekeeperswife
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    how weird is this? I have butterflies in my stomach while waiting for his quote. I even emailed him this am telling him how exciting it will be if he can get his quote for the entire kitchen and vanities to me before other KD can get me prices for changes we talked about 6 DAYS AGO.

    Every time I see I have a new email I get nervous. What if it's the quote from original guy? But nah, usually just another regular email.

    Christine, another place you might check that is closer to my current home is Oxford Cabinet Shop. They wouldn't be too far from you. They have done excellent work for other GW members. You can do a search for those threads.

    Oxford Cabinet Shop
    120 Quarry Road
    Oxford, PA 19363
    Jacob K. Fisher
    Call Monday, Wednesday or Friday between 8-8:30 AM
    (717) 529-0949


    Oh geez, there are 2 new emails in my inbox. Better look

  • beaglesdoitbetter1
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Anything yet Bee? I'm so excited/nervous for you- I know how it feels to be waiting for quotes for something you really want!

  • CEFreeman
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thank you, ladies!
    I'm dreaming, dreaming.

    And I'm so excited for you, too, Bee!

    I wonder if this guy will ever start to wonder about how much $$ he's losing out because of his pricing, lack of (talent?) flexibility in customization, and just generally Not what people are wanting! And he can't say, "well, those Amish can be cheaper because ..."

    Post when you hear something. Immediately! [finger pointing in the air!]

  • beekeeperswife
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think I must be a bad person. I am so hoping that the end of the business day comes and I won't have a quote back from my KD1.

    Still nothing from him as of yet.

    This is like a horse race, but KD1 thinks he is the only one on the track. And quietly sneaking up behind him, making the 4th turn is DW.

    It's not like I'm hoping KD1 falls and breaks his leg or anything on the track. I just want DW to catch him and pass him for the Victory!!

    tick tock tick tock

  • beaglesdoitbetter1
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    LOL beekeeperswife. You know I am hoping for you to go to Dutch Wood too so I can see your amazing design talents combined with their amazing cabinetry work :)
    I'm guessing you made it to the end of day w/o anything from KD1?

  • beekeeperswife
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Looking like a photo finish? Or will DW beat KD1 by a length? Or more?

    This conversation tomorrow with my builder will take my mind off of the backhoes in my yard looking for a place to perc a new septic field for some future homeowner.....

  • CEFreeman
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yes, you're a pretty horrible person.
    Shame, shame, shame on you for wanting honesty, to get what you're willing to pay for, and positivity rather than, "Well, we can't do that because xxx" where xxx means BS. (And I'm not talking back splash.)

    Shame on you for not heads-upping the KD1. After all, he's really going out of his way to take care of you!

    Shame shame shame

    (did the KD2 answer? !! I want to hear, too.)

  • fks3
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Bee

    Rooting for you - GO! It's your money and your home. I also found another whitish granite - Latinum at Briggs that we are considering for laundry room and powder room

    Christine - another Amish maker for you to consider is Master Design Cabinetry in Honey Brook, PA. Amos did our kitchen and we love his work

  • westsider40
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It is interesting that most of us are not lukewarm about amish,mennonite, hardworking, ca do atttitudes, and get so ferblungett when we run into the guys who dont listen, care, give lip service, cant and wont do what we want--and the difference is nite and day---one makes you smile and the other makes yo depressed.

    I used the same custom cab ppl and loves2cook4six told me that

    e that they will happily say yes, whatever u want, they can do and do it

    superbly and efficiently. and they expand on your own ideas. We were so lucky to have Ayr Custom Cabinetry.

  • CEFreeman
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm taking note, ladies.
    Don't know if I'll ever have the $$, but I do make my dreams happen....

    Christine

  • beaglesdoitbetter1
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Any news?

  • beekeeperswife
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Not yet.

    Maybe I'll call Jason and see when he thinks he will email me.

  • beaglesdoitbetter1
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    LOL poor Jason having to deal w/ all of us TKO people. He should just start a support group in his cabinet shop!

  • beekeeperswife
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I just spoke with him....he's working on it right now. Should be done within the hour.....

    This is going to be a lonnnng hour.

    And no, not a word from KD1 yet. Seriously.

  • beaglesdoitbetter1
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    nervous and crossing my fingers for you.
    KD1 is clearly NOT the right person for you. Even if you don't end up going w/ dutch wood for some reason, do NOT go back to KD1. This much hassle now when they should be trying to earn your business guarantees hassle x10 later once they have your $$

  • suzanne_sl
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    We worked with a custom cab guy who was so disinterested that he never called back. We were in possesion of 2 sample doors from him, but he never called. We repurposed the sample door eventually:

    We stored the left over flooring and baseboard in there.

  • beaglesdoitbetter1
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    has it been an hour yet? It's been an hour, hasn't it!!

  • beekeeperswife
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Oh my. What a whirlwind that was!

    Got the quote. It was all good. Unfortunately, I'm not going to go with him on the vanities because quite frankly, I think I can find something in stock cabinets that will do the trick nicely for those.

    Talked to my builder. I laid it on the line. I told him that KD1 was not easy to work with. I felt he talked to me like I was an idiot (that's in reference to the frameless cabinets that are collapsing). I felt his prices were way too high. And the idea that full overlay cost the same as inset because they are set up to do inset?

    Then my builder told me I am not the first customer to walk away from KD1. Enough said.

    After our long talk, the builder said for me to have Jason call him and he would try to get him added as a preferred vendor and we can go from there.

    Then I looked in my email. Guess who just sent me his quote from our meeting last week? Yep, KD1. And FWIW, it's substantially higher than my quote from DW.

    I'm so excited.

    Now if my yard at my current house percs for a new septic field tomorrow, all will be right with the universe. oh, and if we can convince the flood people that the new house will never flood due to sitting at an elevation of 75' above the 100 year flood plane, it will ALL be good.

  • kitchenkrazed09
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm so glad you found a better KD. Hope the rest of your build goes smoothly.

  • beaglesdoitbetter1
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yay bee! I am so glad you are using Dutch Wood. You are going to end up w/ an amazing kitchen! Can't wait to see it as it progresses!
    Are you getting your full overlay cabinets to the ceiling then?

  • rosie
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Congratulations. I'm so glad you stepped out of line on the way to the milking machines and hope a lot of people are inspired by your saga.

    As for flood insurance--just what does 75' mean in your area? We turned away from several gorgeous sites on 100- and 200-year floor plains (unwilling to face many nights worrying no matter how adequately insured). Given the promise of more and more erratic climate events in future, we simply didn't trust this "200-year" stuff. Based on what? Certainly not on our neighbor's view out over the lake a small creek far out and down below in a meadow turneed close to the the official 500-year mark which had been based on past history.

  • mamadadapaige
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Wonderful news ... Just so curious why your builder is continuing on with kd1. - maybe this will be the final straw.

  • beekeeperswife
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Beagles, I am getting tall cabinets with a nice hunky piece of trim up there. I showed him a picture and said the cabinets themselves don't have to touch the ceiling, but I don't want a space above it. KD1 told me that the frieze would cup and warp if he did that. Jason said he can do that. I was worried that the cabinets were going to be too tall with disproportionate moulding on top.

    Here's the photos of the crown and frieze I'm talking about.

    I sent him an email telling him to contact the builder, and I hope he won't be offended if I end up going with stock cabinets for the vanities in order to keep things under control cost-wise. He sent back another option for vanity cabinets. But I think I can get them for about 1/2 of his lower line. I told him I'd rather put any extra funds towards upgrading things in the kitchen, like more glass cabinets.

  • beekeeperswife
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    When I said 75', I meant the house is elevated 75' above the 100 year flood plain, which just happened. There is about 10' of our land that is down by the creek. Our house is essentially on top of a cliff. There really is no way it could flood up where we are building. But whomever the federal powers that be are, they are looking at the FEMA maps and seeing 10' of our land is in a flood plain but ignoring that the plan for the house is to be built in another flood zone classification. We will get them elevation drawings soon. Maybe then they will understand. Even the appraiser knows it is in an extremely low risk area. I have no problem paying for flood insurance, but they need to get the risk factor right. It is a difference between $5k/year vs $400/year. That's substantial.

    I wonder who is going to break the news to KD1? Not me. That's for darn sure.

  • beaglesdoitbetter1
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Beautiful bee! I love the big trim. I'm a big trim girl :)

    I know Jason won't be offended if you get vanities elsewhere. We got prices from him on trim and then had our builder's trim guy install the trim instead because it was the same price and it was just easier to let him do it. No problem at all from them.

    That said, were it me, I would probably cut something else and have Dutch Wood do all the cabinets since cabinets are "permanent". We put his lower priced lines in some of the rooms (can't remember which- maybe pantry or closets?) and those look amazing too. If I remember right, the low price line is 1/2 inch plywood instead of 3/4 inch, so it is still great (esp. when you consider 1/2 inch plywood is an upgrade for a lot of cabinet companies). And the bathrooms they did for us are gorgeous!

    But, either way, you'll have a great experience w/ Dutch Wood and the kitchen is the most important room!

  • beekeeperswife
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Beagles--just thought of this.

    What about sales tax? I don't see it on the quote. Will I get hit with it later or is there none on cabinets?

  • beaglesdoitbetter1
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    We didn't pay any or else it was included, not sure which. I think b/c they install too there may not be tax. We just paid what was on the proposal, nothing more.

  • mpagmom (SW Ohio)
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hey, that's my inspiration pic. I'm flattered. If you want any more info about it, let me know.

    Glad the new cabinet maker is going to work out for you!

  • CEFreeman
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    wowowowowowoooooooo
    I can't wait to see what happens next! As in, PICTURES!

    I don't think I'd even condescend to informing KD1 of your decision. Either he thought you bought it all and were in the bag or he just didn't care anyway.

    I'm excited for you!
    Christine

  • babs711
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hey Bee! I'm so glad things are working out for you!!

    I've been following this even though I haven't posted. And Bee, your chunky trim pic is one I've been looking at for inspiration too. We've finally started our build and I've met with two great cabinet people. But both quotes are putting me way over with the stacked cabinets. It's disheartening. I'm OK with not going to the ceiling if it looks great otherwise. I just couldn't find the right look. Then I came across that somehow...House Beautiful of BHG? I forget...and a few others that have helped me come to terms. I think I'm going to the ceiling with the hood though.

    Looking forward to the next update!

  • mpagmom (SW Ohio)
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It's from BH&G Kitchen and Bath Ideas February 2011. I got it from my local library. The rest of the kitchen is interesting, too, and there is a stacked-cabinet look over the massive paneled refrigerator/freezer.

  • jillinnj
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Glad you are getting what you want and just as important, being treated with respect. You are the customer, for goodness sake.

    Now, if it were me, I would DEFINITELY be the one to tell KD1 why he lost my business. I'd be polite but VERY clear why he just lost thousands of $$ in business.

    Good luck. Can't wait until it gets started and we can see pictures.

  • kateskouros
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    i'm thrilled for you! it's not even my kitchen but i didn't want you working with KD1 !

  • babs711
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Mpagmom, do you have pics of the rest of that kitchen? Not to hijack the thread, but I've got photos of chunky crowned kitchens with all even fridge cabinets. I keep asking myself what it would look like if I took that one cabinet to the ceiling because it's the edge of that room. I'd appreciate it. Thanks!

  • lascatx
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm so much happier for you -- hope all is even better with your world tomorrow.

  • bmorepanic
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I am happy you can stop fighting with that guy as well as get what you'd like to have.

  • mpagmom (SW Ohio)
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Babs711, I'll be happy to post some more pictures. I'll start a new thread to make sure we don't hijack!

    Here is a link that might be useful: Inspiration pictures of kitchen with chunky trim

  • NJHM
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Beekeeperswife:

    I am doing my kitchen too. The stress is intolerable. I was thinking of either Oxford or Dutchwood. How is your experience with dutch wood so far?

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