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aliris19

More practicalities: kitchen drawers

aliris19
13 years ago

I hear-ya that kitchen drawers are better than sliced bread.

But when I hang out in my mother's redone kitchen replete with drawers everywhere, it feels weird. She has her pots and pans in the drawers and it feels like there's so much wasted space around those long-handled things. Maybe this isn't really any different from cabinets -- but it feels it to me.

Is this just me being ludditish?

I guess it just feels like there's wasted space in between the drawers for hardware that could be utilized with one big open space.

Probably there isn't much to say to this and I should just leap and trust -- I'm willing to do that with this as you-all have been thinking so hard about kitchens! But if you have any comments to make that might quell my unease, I'd love to read em.

Thanks...

Comments (28)

  • Susan
    13 years ago

    well i think they take up the same amount of room wherever they are.

    as i see it, the benefit is that you pull a drawer towards you and reach in to get soemthing you can now see, as opposed to opening a cabinet and bending over while reacing inside and feeling for what you want..

    roll outs still require a door, so a drawer in that case saves material and a step.
    hope that helps!

  • breezygirl
    13 years ago

    I was on board with the whole drawer issue before demo. We're now living in a temporary house during our whole house remodel. This kitchen has about 5 drawers total. I now realize how impractical cabinets are for most things. I hate, hate, hate reaching down on my hands and knees to find the things in the back of those dark and spooky cabinets. YUCK! Some things due to size and/or shape have to be in cabinets. I am a total, complete 100% convert now! GET DRAWERS!!!!

  • plllog
    13 years ago

    You're absolutely right about the wasted space, but not in it being caused by drawers. You can actually fit more into drawers or ROTS (roll out tray shelves, which are essentially drawers inside cabinets such as Fallingwaters referred to) of the same footprint as shelves. This is because you can fill the gaps with smaller items in a drawer, and in a cupboard they'll be in the way.

    The other part of your message held the clue: wasted space in between the drawers for hardware that could be utilized with one big open space Absolutely right!!! That's why it's better to get really really WIDE pot drawers. Mine are 48". It's one big space. The pot handles all nestle next to the bowls of other pots. My tiny blini pan, artichoke racks and garlic baker fill little gaps. It's very efficient. And much easier to use.

    Because my pots are cast iron, my cabinetmaker used extra heavy glides which don't have soft close. Because of the weight in the drawers it's unnecessary. They have plenty of impetus to close all the way with all that mass. They also have sturdy bottoms, of course. My bakeware drawers are over 30" wide (with soft close). Again, great for storing all kinds of stuff with no wasted space.

    With ROTS you do save a couple of vertical inches of usable space, but you then have to open the doors completely and get out of their way before you pull them out.

    Open shelves are the least efficient for the same sized space because you have to take out what's in front to get at the back, besides making gap fillers so bothersome.

  • formerlyflorantha
    13 years ago

    Adding to plllog's post above...
    Visual surveying of a space is much easier when looking downward into a drawer than when looking laterally into a cupboard. You can survey the whole scene faster and more completely.

    a negative factor: There is a tendency to pile things into drawers that might not be piled when storing things that enter the space horizontally. You will find yourself putting "one more thing" into a storage area that wouldn't happen otherwise. Gotta make a rule for that. I've heard "two items deep" as a rule.

  • Fori
    13 years ago

    I did just about all drawers and the one thing I'll do differently (in the drawer department) in my NEXT remodel is to have a huge giant pot drawer. I want to be able to put my skillets and lids on their edges and file 'em away.

    But a cabinet? Heck no. Cabinets are for Crockpots.

  • aliris19
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    OK guys, thank you. That was *very* informative. I'm ready to make that plunge then. Gotta get a final plan together first of course. plllog, with florantha's supplement -- thanks for the overview; very helpful. Like you, I have *super heavy* pots and pans -- cast iron all. Formerly I just left them on the stove or basically rarely used them. I'll be thrilled to find a 'house' for them.

    Speaking of which ... here's an appliance I never use only because there's no good way to access it: crock pot. I would use it if I could! Gotta think about that... I think my next post (but have to search first) will be about: appliance garages. I don't actually know what that is. But don't respond now or here; I'll search first.

    Thanks all!

  • honeychurch
    13 years ago

    I put my crockpot on my peanut:

    But I also have a lot of drawers now, and I really like having pots/pans, glasses, and dishware in drawers. Also, the kids now have no excuse in not helping set the table as they can easily reach everything they need!

  • aliris19
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    *what* is a peanut!! It's cute, whatever it is...

  • holligator
    13 years ago

    I think there's a lot LESS wasted space in drawers. I'm able to fit most things two deep. In my old cabinets, this meant having to remove the front layer to get to the back layer. So, I tried to avoid it by only having one row of items or filling the back with things I never used.

    I am able to fit all of my 20 or so pots and pans (with the exception of my giant stockpots) and all their lids into two drawers. They took up much more cabinet space in the old kitchen. Everything is so much more accessible now, too!

    Oh, and I keep my crockpots and all my other small appliances in my lazy susan. This arrangement has worked out beautifully!

  • honeychurch
    13 years ago

    It's a Hafele Le Mans blind corner unit...I call it a peanut because that's what we think it looks like! :-)

  • red_eared_slider86
    13 years ago

    My old kitchen was full of your classic drawer & door cabinets. I did not realize how dysfunctional my arrangement of kitchen items was until I started planning my new kitchen. Before demo, I actually went thru the trouble of re-arranging everything just to see how it felt to be better organized.

    What I discovered was that in the cabinets, it was too easy to stack one thing on top of another on top of another, etc. I had to do a lot of unstacking to get to anything on the bottom. With drawers, I don't have that problem. And now I store my lids with their associated pots in the drawers. No more hunting.

    But the most annoying part of base door cabinets is the squatting to get into them. Even when hubby cooked, he'd complain that his back and/or knees wouldn't allow him to get at the things in the cabinets, so guess who had to go skillet-diving? Yep, me. I don't have to do that now, tho.

    I'm really glad I went with drawers.

  • plllog
    13 years ago

    I didn't plan this exactly, but I've found that the drawers under my ovens are perfect for small appliances. They seemed heavy when I had cupboards. They're a lot lighter now. :) It's really easy to take the Cuisinart in and out, and much as I wanted it off the counter I never would have guessed that a bottom drawer would be perfect!

    In the old kitchen, with the old cupboards, I keep my cast iron on the stove or counter too. Now, not only can I put it all in drawers, I added significantly to my collection at a gonzo sale! (Inc. goose pot!)

  • davidro1
    13 years ago

    I measured cubic inches available. I removed space wasted with drawer sides preventing handles, etc.

    Result : wide drawers

    All my drawers are 24" width or greater. The cutlery drawers hold most used objects in the front half, and long term storage in the back half.

    If anyone has a "feeling" that drawers are not efficient, picture this: in a base cabinet, one could install drawers in the top half, and nothing in the bottom half, which would be reserved for long term storage. To see the stuff in the bottom half of the cabinet, one would need to get down on all fours and rummage around while holding a flashlight too. Hmm.

  • formerlyflorantha
    13 years ago

    One factor that also needs to be addressed: Once you've got drawers, you've got the drawers. When you go with cupboards, you can redefine the interior space, even years later. Despite all our drawers, we decided to include two lower cupboards, one each side of the range--to hold undesignated stuff, now being defined as wok, biggest bowl and tupper megabowl with cover, tallest bottles of oil and other too-tall stuff, that jumble of tin containers that we haul out after cookie baking, etc. etc. etc. We can redefine seasonally or as we add and subtract to our kitchen practice--those shelves can be moved so easily. Unfortunately, with our hinge hardware, they're just a hair too narrow to use the 21 inch ROTS, sigh. Be sure that if you're doing ROTS you plan around the existing sizes of available inserts. Measure twice.

    I would also say that it's not necessary to have the most hefty hardware on the top drawers, if there's a way to cut cost there. How many bricks will be stored in the top drawers anyway?

    One drawer I'm glad I invented is a 16 x 16 square, my reuse container bin. It holds the little tuppers, old yogurt and olive plastics, etc etc. etc. It's below the countertop run between sink and microwave, the area where leftovers are processed after leaving dinner table and close to the sandwich station. This is also next to the dishwasher and drying dishes, so I can heave this stuff into it after washing. I'm not methodical like many of you, so dumping this stuff in there essentially willy nilly is just fine for me. I've made a vow to pitch out anything that doesn't fit -- a way to discipline the plastic accumulation. The drawer is deep enough to hold quite an assortment and shallow enough to prevent an inordinately large collection.

  • nerdyshopper
    13 years ago

    Has anyone tried the pullout sliders that fit cabinets. That would seem to be an easy way to have the best of both worlds and would cost a lot less for conversion. I have seen them in Costco's online ads and been tempted but I worry that there would be wasted areas between the cabinet doors.

  • Fori
    13 years ago

    Pullout sliders are a decent way to use existing cabinets. Still, it takes two steps to get to your stuff instead of one.

    Anyway, if you have a corner cabinet, you pretty much have to go with...a peanut! or lazy susan type thing and they hold stuff. I have an 18" deep cabinet under my small baking center overhang with a pullout on the bottom. Cat food and canning supplies. I have a tall skinny cabinet by my fridge and the lower part is full of grocery bags. THAT mess should be in a drawer.

    Rice cooker and other small appliances: drawers.

    The crockpot is actually over the hood, the ice cream maker on the other side.

    Cast iron is especially good in drawers because the noise it makes when you have it stacked and try to slide it out of a cupboard is dreadful.

  • lavender_lass
    13 years ago

    I like the heavy duty pull out shelves, in my mom's double pantry cabinet. Something like that would be perfect under my cooktop.

  • lucypwd
    13 years ago

    DRAWERS - far superior - My kitchen is full of drawers, but my pantry has cupbords. My only regret is that I didn't put drawers in the pantry. Make sure you plan for LARGE drawers for pots, (width and depth). I eliminated upper cabinets, GASP, on two walls so all my dishes are either in drawers, or on floating shelves flanking the cooktop. The only thing that doesn't fit in my drawers is my kitchen aid mixer, and you know what a beast it is. I kept complaining about it, and my daughter, then 16, said "why don't you leave it on the counter, after all it is a kitchen...?" Ever since it has been on the counter, and I bake much more because it is so accessible.

    One thing I would recommend is a drawer or two dedicated to baking to create a baking center. I have one drawer that has flour, sugar, yeast, baking powder etc, below is a drawer with cake, pie, and loaf pans, and to the upper side are measuring spoons, cups, and baking utensils. It's not like I bake every day, but just this one organizational step has saved my so much time and effort. At first it seemed like a waste of space, but but it was one of the best ideas that I picked up from this forum.

  • plllog
    13 years ago

    Lavender, just keep your mind open as you plan. :) See if you can find a kitchen with good pot drawers to play in before you decide for sure.

    I have roll out tray shelves in my pantry, which I love. I don't have to remember which one is which. I can open the doors and stare. I grew up with them for the pots and for the mixer/FP stuff. I loved looking in the cupboard to see the pots too... The drawers are better. Seriously. The doors just get in the way.

    BTW, everyone, you can have drawers in the corners too!

  • Buehl
    13 years ago

    There quite a few threads out there discussing drawers vs roll-out tray shelves (ROTS and a.k.a., pull-out shelves).

    Drawers, drawers, drawers!!!

    • Opening/Closing...

      Drawers require one movement to open/close

      • Open: pull open

      • Close: push closed.

      ROTS, on the other hand, require 2 or 3 motions plus waiting...

      • Open: move out of the way of the doors, open 1 or 2 doors, pull out ROTS

      • Close: push in ROTS, wait for it to close fully (so you don't ding the doors), close 1 or 2 doors [And, if you have soft-close, the wait is even longer!]

    • Storage/sides...

      Drawers have sides the height of the drawer opening. This prevents things from falling off the sides, either onto the floor or into the interior of the cabinet (on the sides). This means you can stack things w/o worrying about things falling as the sides will catch them. It also keeps things from extending out past the walls of the drawer so they don't get caught on the cabinet frame when opening the drawer (Note: Getting caught on the frame is not an issue w/frameless cabinets, just framed...which includes overlay & inset.)

      ROTS have shallow sides, thus allowing things to fall off the sides and allowing things to hang over the sides of the shelf and get caught on the cabinet frame (which can result in nicks in your frame - experience speaking here!).

    Adjustability...

    Drawers are not adjustable to different heights inside the cabinet. OK, this is the one place where ROTS have the advantage. However, with planning and/or organizers you can do almost anything with them and store almost anything in them (dishes, glasses, etc.)

    ROTS have the advantage here in most cases. Most ROTS are adjustable..but not all are, so check w/your cabinetmaker.
    Cost...

    Drawers, in my case were less expensive than ROTS. I have a 27" 3-drawer base and a 27" ROTS base cabinet (the only ROTS cab I have and that I regret) and

    the ROTS cab cost $140 more than the drawer base.

  • debrak_2008
    13 years ago

    aliris19, I get the same feeling as I plan our kitchen, that someday I will get some item that will not fit in any of the drawers.

    fori, I laughed as I read your post, as I misread the last part as "Cabinets are for Crackheads", lol. I will remember that when I get nervous about drawers.

  • puppeez
    13 years ago

    In the base cabs I will have only 1 door (for the peanut thingy). Thanks to seeing a Sarah Richardson reno on TV, I will even have drawers for the sink bases. I had converted every cabinet in the old kitchen to ROTS (most were adjustable, but I never did). The new kitchen will sport all drawers.

    I will also get rid of a swing shelf pantry (yippee!) and have a step in corner pantry that I can also store odd sized things in. In my fantasy kitchen, I would have one huge pantry where I could step in and see *everything* and then there would not be a need for all the cabinetry. In reality, I don't have that kind of space.

    Thanks to every GWer who posts questions and comments, I learned I had so much more to think about other than just replacing worn cabinets....like drawers drawers drawers.

  • aliris19
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Thanks everyone for sure with their information here. I believe... But I guess I'll also need a cabinet for my tall soup pot. I can't imagine fitting that into a drawer! Or maybe that's what a pantry is for ... though I won't really have one of those either. Hmmm... I wonder where the 25# flour buskets are supposed to go, speaking of pantries?

    Too darn much to think about. No wonder this takes months to plan. We're going on 3 months with no kitchen...

  • marthasdream
    13 years ago

    I am putting the lobsterpot in the appliance pull out to the left of the sink, I am pretty sure I can fit the blender in it. :)

  • aliris19
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    plllog -- how do those corner drawers work please?! I am confused... do they somehow pull straight out? That can't work can it?

    marthasdream: is an appliance pull that peanuty device mentioned?

    Thanks!

  • Buehl
    13 years ago

    The "peanut device" is a pullout designed to make a blind corner cabinet more functional. In my opinion,not as good as a corner susan, but if you have no other choice it's better than stationary shelves. (You do have the potential issue of things falling off both inside & outside the cabinet. If they fall off inside the cabinet, you cannot push the "peanut" back into place until you somehow get back into the blind corner cabinet to retrieve the item.)

  • plllog
    13 years ago

    Yep. The corner drawers pull straight out. There is some lost space, but they actually hold about as much as pie cut susans (i.e., with the 90 degree corner rather the full circle with a diagonal corner).

    This is now my plastics drawer. Tried the dish thing, but I'm just not a dishes in drawers person:

    There are a couple of modifications to the Blum plan here. They show a square back to the drawer which extends so the back is past the counter and the corners are under it, and has an added triangle in the back to fill the space. I thought this was weird and wasteful. There was a picture of the corner drawer online which had a pointy back that follows the shape of the opening and fully extends with usable space, and the sides extending back to where the rails clip in. My cabinetmaker, once I explained what I wanted, did one better, and made the drawers to go all the way back to the wall. This way they're not full extension, but it gains me several extra inches of storage space, so in the end it is actually competitive with the full circle susan.

    Here's a sketch of how the drawer is constructed:

  • aliris19
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Gnarly

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