For all you who have an "everyday" dining room, what flooring do you have in there?

We have that setup, plus two stool seats in the kitchen, and I love it. We keep 8 chairs, but can go up to 14 in there without too much stress. But I have two elementary age boys, and the flooring in my DR gets thrashed. (I blame it on the kids, but yesterday it was size 14 men's boots leaving mud everywhere.)

I currently have FLOR tiles over the hardwoods, which I take up and scrub in the tub every six months or so (they come out looking brand spanking new). But in the interim they look progressively grubbier...which I cringe at. A better housekeeper would be down there scrubbing them more, but nobody like that lives here!

So tell me...what do you all do to cover the dr floors?

Deb

For all you who have an "everyday" dining room, what flooring do you have in there?

We have prefinished hardwood floors in our dining room. Things wipe up off of it just fine. I worry a bit about scratches from the chairs, but that's the breaks. I can't imagine dealing with trying to clean food off of a rug. At least that could be cleaned and changed every once in awhile, though, unlike carpet.

In our last house, we had high quality laminate tile that cleaned easily and didn't scratch. I kind of miss that flooring.

We have a kitchen table that sit 6 and an adjacent dining room that we only use for entertaining - our fault for making it too fancy! For our renovation we chose to sacrifice cabinets for counter seating on one side of our peninsula. In my experience everyone loves sitting at the counter keeping the cook company with a glass of wine. I also like the idea of parking the kids there for homework or breakfast, or maybe peeling veggies when they are old enough.

We have a center hall colonial which has center stairs that separate the dining / kitchen space from the living room. I guess you can say I created a great room with this renovation. I opened my dining room and kitchen in this renovation stealing four feet of the dining room for kitchen counter. We left the center of the kitchen open so that the dining table when extended can seat 10. We even have some space for two comfy chairs in the dining area. We drink coffee there in the morning and have cocktails there at night. Mom can put her feet up on Sundays (she is 87) and still talk to me while I work in the kitchen. She used to sit in the dining room (or sometimes in the living room) and try to shout to me when I was working in the kitchen. This was one motivation to remove the wall.

My husband and I rarely have that many people in the house for sit down dinners. We are regularly three (mom visits on Sundays) and once in a while six. When we have a large group, like at Thanksgiving, (DH's 3 kids and their families) we move tables into our living room and create a huge sit down table.

We love the great room that we have created -- fits our lifestyle more.

What a delightful thread to encounter this morning! Our traditional center hall, four over four colonial was oh, so predictable, when we moved in six years ago. Probably still is, as we kept both the "formal" living and dining rooms. Dining room table often serves as our project area, hence the remnants of holiday wrapping paper still to be cleaned up. BUT, I love having meals in there, whether it is just the 5 of us or we stretch the table and get 12 or so in there, number we can fit depends on "hip" size and age. While it is the "formal" dining room in the house, I ditched the pristine, cherry Queen Anne style table and chairs combo, one of the first purchases when we were married -- we felt SO grown up when we did that -- for the large farm table of old wood that welcomes additional "love marks". "Found" chairs will be covered w/sunbrella fabric as soon as I have some time. Even though it is the formal dining space, it now serves our family style much better and I no longer worry about ruining the furniture w/our eating habits.

When designing our reno. I knew that an eat-in kitchen was on the "need" list, it was also dictated by our view...our kitchen table has the best seats in the house. We do have two seats at the far corner of our island which serve the purpose of breakfast, coffee and paper, quick lunch, mail sorting, etc. We can never have a family meal there, b/c there are not enough seats for more than that.

What I miss most about our old space is the cozy 40" round table that just fit in our bay window, w/bench seating around it. There was just something about being able to sqeeze many little bottoms when friends or cousins were over. Not the same to have to pull up an extra chair to the table for me. I lobbied for another window seat in our new space, but lost that battle (I got the cabinets of my dreams instead).

We are a family of multiple cooks, ages 7 and up, and are often working in the kitchen together, so having our table and end of the island for additional work space is what works for us. Someone can sit at the table and snap beans, shuck corn, etc. while someone else is choppping or mixing at the island then we just shift our focus to setting the table and voila -- we are all eating together, talking, lingering, tasting a new wine, listening to the adventures of the 7 and 10 y.o., planning, dreaming, etc. I love our eat-in kitchen -- it has become even more of the glue that binds us since the reno., worth every challenge along the way to get to this end.

My mini kitch Reno was about Party space. Yes, I admit it
I knew nothing about kitchens until GW. I changed my
kitchen because of the infamous Hip Bang.

Everyone who came to grab the salad dressing, pour wine or
mix a gin and tonic found that if they turned to quick in
one spot they would jam their hip. If someone wanted an
item out of the refrig, while another was blabbing on at
the counter, someone wanted to pass by to the sink,
another was going to be stuck in a traffic jam. It was
Chaos. And we are not overly fat people. I have an Aunt
who insists her hip replacement was my counter.

(Plllog, Buehl, Rhome, LiveWire-Oak and others are saying
I need to see a floor plan, I cannot visualize without a
floor plan)

I chose to keep the footprint of my kitchen. Only changing
the counter space, angles and size purely to accommodate
more people during parties. I sound like a Frat boy. But
honestly the impromptu parties just happen. We have a
separate refrig devoted to booze.

We always have someone stopping in to create an impromptu
party. My husband, my kids, and even my father all play
sports so it is not unusual to have someone invite a
friend or three to have a meal in the kitchen. There are
plenty of sweaty stinky people sitting around devouring
food. The scent of a foursome of 70 year old men
unshowered is stale.

Even extended family parties involve 9 monkey children
along with my in-laws. Trust me 1 monkey plus 2 monkeys
equals 50 messy monkeys. Since many of these folks have
seen me at my worst I have no desire to impress them with
my formal china. Nor have them complain I returned the
ugly gravy boat they gave me last Christmas. So hanging
out in the kitchen is perfect.

I also have a small table for 4 to eat in off the
kitchen. I would throw that out in a heartbeat to make a
larger kitchen but....
I have these gorgeous giant windows that I did not want to
get rid of. So I kept the eat in area. A perfect place
for the sticky, sweet monkey children to pick their nose,
shoving someone aside and fight for a chicken wing are
better off in THAT area. Only a hose and drain on the
floor could really clean it so keeping it contained is
preferable.

I have a dinning room that is used monthly for sit down
dinner parties and randomly for dinner. I wish we had
evening meals as a family in the DR but there are so many
activities going in 10 different directions that we are
lucky to all be home by bedtime.

So the question to be answered....

Would I trade the eat in areas for more kitchen functional
space?

Boy this is hard as I love kitchens but I have to say no.
No. I love my family around me. Yes, even the sticky,
grimy, running nosed little monkeys, the husband that
tosses his grill fork in my stainless sink, the friend
who spills olive oil on the granite and does not clean it
up. The spindly child who thinks climbing on the counter
to get to the top upper cab shelf is not going to cause me
to LOOSe it. The great auntie that believes only bleach
can clean anything even your granite. AHHHH. The Boxer
dog who licks the dishwasher when no one is looking. I
love them all and they make my kitchen a place of joy.
Sure, we fight, bicker, complain, roll eyes, crack
pathetic jokes but the laughter makes my kitchen a place
to want to be.

Thanks for letting blather on.
~boxerpups

segbrown--i wish you posted more pics! now i need to go to your finished kitch thread to drool all over again.

our last house was built in 1834 and had a small/average size kitchen...with terribly placed doorways and a huge window. since all the rooms were separate rooms, and there was this weird space under the window, i had a 15 inch deep finished butcher block installed. we got a few step stools from ikea and it was the perfect place for my little ones to snack and color while i cooked.

in our new (circa 1962) house, we will have a dining table (long and very narrow) opposite the island. but the island won't have stools or anything.

i don't personally like eating to be *so close* to where i am cooking.

as for stools. i hate them. but you can get bar height chairs which feel more stable to me since they have a back :)

Here is a link that might be useful: eat in butcher block

Just as an aside, I think the blue in segbrown's dining room is really inspiring. I keep going back to that picture, and thinking about where I could use that color. I wonder how it would go with gleaming copper pots in a kitchen?

In-line island seating was brought to you by the designers of the Titanic and the Edsel, with consulting support provided by the makers of the Ford Pinto.

I recently endured the experience of helping my sister cook an Italian Christmas Eve with five of her neighbors in attendance. As you may know, it's traditional to sit around for hours enjoying a leisurely parade of fish dishes of every sort, followed by a refreshing salad and multiple desserts.

Instead, her guests lined up like bar patrons, with me as the bartender. Rather than chat with each other, they mostly stared at me. With a dozen eyes on me, I could not concentrate on trying to time the cooking of crab and scallops and shrimp and calamari. I felt like I wasn't providing enough "flair." Maybe I should have tried rolling the pepper mill up one arm, across my shoulders, and down the other, while slamming the spices into the pot with a cry of "Bam!" And somehow, sitting lined up like an audience encouraged people to pop endless questions at me, demanding to know why I was doing this or that.

Worst of all, everyone ignored the earlier courses of calamari salad and clam pizza and clams casino, eating very little as they tapped their foots expectantly waiting for the main course to be finished.

Whoever designed islands with single-line seating deserves to be laid out on one for vivisection.

A live vivisection is, no doubt, the showmanship your cooking theatre needed.

What's the best counter material for vivisections? Will honed granite get stained?

See, this is where stainless steel really shines. Especially in the form of nails.

See, this is where stainless steel really shines. Especially in the form of nails.

"Just as an aside, I think the blue in segbrown's dining room is really inspiring. I keep going back to that picture, and thinking about where I could use that color. I wonder how it would go with gleaming copper pots in a kitchen?"

Be still my heart ... I think that's a great idea. I only have one copper pan, and it needs some polishing, but I hope this gives you a sense (sorry for the completely crappy pics):

{{gwi:1988418}}

{{gwi:1988419}}

{{gwi:1988420}}

John, that's a function that just cries for stainless steel.

Trust Boxerpups to wax poetic on even this rather mundane subject. The imagery is exquisite. I come away from her peroration--having visualized sans floorplan--with two impactful ponderables:

1. If you're going to entertain 9 monkeys you need a dinning room.

2. Entertain tasteless relatives in the kitchen so they'll never notice that you exchanged their well-meaning but hideous looking offerings.

Re flooring, it's amazing what you can get out of a good quality wool rug. Just about anything but cherry soda barf. I've actually experienced kids who could be trusted to eat neatly while sitting in the dining room on carpet. Anyone past the devlopmental stage of see! I can let go can learn table manners very quickly. Do I sound stodgy? It's just true! I think a lot of parents are overwhelmed, but most kids want to do things right, and when they're little they're just sponges for learning. A plastic mat under the high chair is indespensible, however, especially in the letting things go phase.

Interesting conversation. I have all 3 options now - island seating, eat in table, and formal dining.

But I find many conditions (that are very personal to each family) have to be satisfied for it to work well, the starting point of which is a decent layout and workflow.

In our house, it would work great for a retired couple because the eat in area really can only effeciently seat 3, and the island can only efficiently seat 2, and the carpeted formal dining room would maybe get some use for actual dining by a couple who didn't have small children...but a retired couple would never purchase our house. Everything but the kitchen is set up for young families - and that's what 99% of the neighborhood is.

It doesn't make sense to me to create a house for a young family and then provide 3 eating areas, none of which are large enough or practical enough to actually accommodate a family :-).

I think all 3 would be nice and useful, but I think it has to be planned well. I do wonder if I am going to miss my "multi purpose room" (aka formal dining room) after the reno. I am going to attempt to shape it into a room that has 3 functions:

1) everyday dining - in a barefoot house as Rhome calls it
2) formal dining once in a blue moon as needed by using lighting and accessories to create mood
3) multi purpose room - a custom bookcase/armoire piece that can be opened up to all my sewing stuff, fabric, sewing machine, ironing board, kids craft supplies, etc

In my last house my kitchen, dining and Living room was all one long room -- 25x42 we've had 70 people in there and it was fine. Anytime we did a function a lot of the men always lean on the kitchen counters and talked. I never have figured out why! I guess they couldn't talk and sit at the same time. This house is shaped different. When we finish I'll see how it goes. But the men will still lean.

I've actually experienced kids who could be trusted to eat neatly while sitting in the dining room on carpet.

I hope that you don't think that because I want an easy-clean dining room floor that we don't expect good table manners. Spatters and spills happen...even by adults. I just don't want to see their evidence the next day or for the next couple of years. Wipe it up and everyone's happy. 'No crying over the spilt milk!' ;-) I just don't like floors anywhere that have to be babied to stay looking nice. Definitely NOT to start the age-old war, but we are even known to wear shoes in our 'barefoot house' :-O and I expect the flooring to 'deal with it'...
:-D

I saved a favorite quote from Oruboris on the Building a Home forum about a 'Barefoot House':

I choose not to wear shoes, and honor your right to choose for yourself-- in other words, I'm shoe free, my house isn't. Having a dress [or undress] code seems the antithesis of a barefoot lifestyle.

Actually, though, it isn't a matter of materials to me, so much as design: so many homes today seem to be created for a very formal lifestyle, and I'm a jeans and t-shirt kind of guy most of the time. I don't care for rooms so stuffy that you feel underdressed without a tie.

But I don't necessarily want to change immeadiately on returning home, either: If I choose to lounge a while in my Zegna Cashmere [and barefeet, of course], thats cool too. So no patio furniture indoors, no bookcases made from cinder blocks, etc. In other words, a barefoot home needn't be monument to the hippy era.

I'd say the true hallmark of a barefoot home is a feeling of comfort and relaxation, both physical and psychological, that is low maintenence without being shabby. It asks little and gives much, it welcomes, it is genuinely gracious but never grand.

It does not dress to impress.

I hope that's true of our home and our dining room!

In my 1200 sf condo that I lived in for 30 years, I had seating for 22. DR through one end of the kitchen seated 8, kitchen table (Danish style with built-in fold out 20" wide leaf) in 8'x 8' eat-in nook at other end of kitchen seated 7, and LR hi-lo 42" d table with an extender that made it 54" d (could be low for coffee table or raised for dining table) seated 7.

In our new house, I designed a similar setup which seats 24, but now have room for 2 more in the larger DR (which doubles as a study), and the kitchen eating area which is separated from the kitchen by a peninsula for buffets is as large as that of the DR. DH & I like the numbers of people in each room at separate tables. You can follow the conversations (usually just a couple going at each table), and as we are getting older, it gets harder to hear if there are too many voices going at once! I like the reduced noise level, also.

Anne

segbrown, who I will now start calling "segblue", thanks for the pictures. I think my polished copper pots would look nice very hanging, all in a row, on that gorgeous cerulean blue wall.

I'm really envious of those whose dining rooms can seat 20!

I've always fantasized about having a house with, not a great room, but a Great Hall. High-ceilinged and flanked by tall windows alternating with smoke-darkened walls. Massive stone fireplaces at both ends. A long table hewn from a single tree, scarred by cauldron burns and sword cuts. A hall where maidens are wed, lambs sacrificed, wine quaffed, treaties made and heroes toasted. With the occasional vivisection by marcolo.

Ah well, back to my humble real life. I guess it is time to clear out my email box - and to do it heroically.

LOL John you and DH could cook together quite well....your styles are similar and we always have lots of gin ( and while on thsat subject....I'd never admit we have a separate fridge for booze...sheesh...ok we have one for booze and one for mixers too LOL)

My hall has tall windows, smoke darkened walls (which isn't s romantic when it's on wallpaper) fireplaces visable on the left and right...the floors were hewn from several trees but it was done on site...I'm low on cauldron's but some of the cuts in the wood do look suspiciously like sword cuts (or aggressive vacummning) and the place has seen maidens (well maybe not but they weren't asked I'm sure) a lamb roast on occasion, wine is quaffed everywhere in our house, the SWAT team was here last week so I guess I have a few hero's around, and the dining room, adjoining the hall, was once a surgery..so perhaps not lambs sacrificed, but a recent guest did mention her grandmother died here (in surgery...while we were eating dinner...her daughter tried to smooth it over by saying "not really HERE" but mom said it was during surgery...so I had to laugh and say...well probably HERE is the most accurate description of where she died).

But the staircase takes up too much room for a table, so we'll go back to the dining room LOL

Ohhh and as to floors in a dining room, we have a horrific red wool carpet soon to be removed, but after 35 years it still looks good, with very few marks. It will be replaced by a lovely woven rug and the wood will be exposed (the floors are all wood). Anyone trying to baby wood should look at my floors:

{{gwi:1824591}}

120 years of abuse, shoes, no shoes, dogs, cats, etc have been walking on these floors and they're still gorgeous. So relax...let them develop a patina :) It's worth the wait!

Rhome, you know I did not mean you or your children!! It was inspired by, though not in direct answer to, YoungDeb's question. I frankly think her solution for her particular problem is genius, but to the general question I was responding about why I don't worry about children eating at the table on my nearly antique wool rug. And why my mother's dining room carpet still looks terrific after decades. (Though I have seen the effect of cherry soda barf in another place and it's not good...) That is, for those who want a rug, a high quality, closely tied wool rug will do very well with kids who aren't the squirm and throw kind of eaters. As you certainly know with your brood, with a little teaching and attention, even small children can easily learn not to make deliberate messes and to handle nice china and glasses, and not splatter the rug and furniture. That doesn't mean you shouldn't have an easy clean floor! Just that a good rug isn't all that hard to clean. And, I guess, there was an element of stop blaming the kids in there, because, as you say, adults have just as messy accidents (in my esperience, worse, because kids tend to pay more attention).

Thanks for sharing Oruboris's essay. I'm totally with that. (Wool rugs are also nice on bare feet!)

Needsometips, it sounds like your house was designed for selling rather than living in. That is, by putting an eating area, and counter seating, and a dining room, they can advertise all those "features" when the builder is trying to sell. Part of the problem is that buyers will tick off "features", such as stainless appliances and granite counters, eat-in kitchens, etc., as desired, so these are listed on the offering. Never mind that the house with the tile counter and white appliances is otherwise perfect for the family. So they sell you a feature-full house, which you've chosen because of the good location and bedrooms, and now you're left to redesign it to be a good living, rather than good selling house.

I have a relative who has a dinky house. First they enclosed the patio to make a little den. They they redid it, raising it and really incorporating it into the house. The combined den/DR/LR is probably smaller than my LR. The kitchen is a standard small galley, with a little table for two at the end. In a three bedroom house, no one ever thought that the whole family could eat at the little table. But when all the cousins are there, the buffet is set up on it, and the sink counter, and the beverages are on the other side of the sink. It's small, and we do a lot of reaching around each other and easing past each other, but it works. They could have gotten rid of the table area for more kitchen, but from what I've heard they prefer to have the table. I would, too, even with the dining table right there.

Oooh! Igloo, is that a telephone nook???

And...SWAT?????

Plllog, I so agree kids can learn to be tidy. It is the
men in my house that need help.... Even this horse has
more manners.

Rhome,
I could never turn away two sweet monkeys even if they
Cherry Soda barfed on my floor.

And to those with large GiNormous dinning rooms that
seat 20. I would feel like Cinderella. And I would wear
glass slippers every day. Enjoy your beautiful dinning
rooms and feel like a princess. I know I would. ; )
~boxerpups

What bothers me is a formal dining room that is only used once a year--though, that's a personal choice and if you can have one, go for it. What I think happens is that most standard floorplans are the pits. The "dining room" is frequently not an inviting room and is disconnected, somehow. Most are too small with too few windows to be a space you'd like to be in on a regular basis.Then, if "decorated" for the once-yearly holiday dinner, they are not inviting for a cup of tea on a Saturday morning.

So I admire floorplans that have an eye to flexibility and invitingness--and the use of multi-purpose furniture such as drop-leaf tables or tables that can be joined, or French doors where a long table can extend into an adjacent room. Or a lovely library room that converts to dining room just for a few occasions. I am interested in successful downsizing (or at least to some extent) in which you could still host 12 for Thanksgiving dinner. As noted, a lot is about the "feel" of the space or spaces and not just whether everyone is at the same table, but whether all feel included and nearby. Just having the "kids's table" in the kitchen can work for a certain period of age groups, but then at some point, if it's too separate, and depending on how many have to sit there, the folks there feel like rejects.

I also think most "breakfast areas" are too skimpy on space. Of course that depends on your family, # of kids, habits, but again, often feel cramped. So better to have a large farm table in a kitchen than a huge kitchen with this little bay window for a breakfast table that you squinch into for all meals.

And ditto the bar seating lineup! I have only figured this out after years of thinking it looked great in photos, so it's interesting how you have to either experience it or really try to think how you do things.

One problem with the "kitchen table" is whether your family will use it to plop all mail and junk on until it is not possible to eat a meal without stopping to clean. This became a problem in my family despite having apparently identified mail areas and other work zones. At some point, if you find that table the most comfortable place to open mail, read magazines and paper, and sit around, you may experience a problem in having it available for plates and food! That happened even though our kitchen is very open to the adjacent den with comfortable seating, lamps and tables.

So to me, that's part of what I'm doodling with in kitchen re-design--to figure out how to have a largish eating space and/or highly adjacent space for a happy secondary seating, good circulation for 2-3 people working in kitchen, maybe one island seat for perching but not a whole bar lineup, and how to manage the flow of mail by those not inclined to manage.

I'll chime in to say, that I really wanted some (one or 2) counter seats in the new kitchen....I played with something like 22 different floor plans, moving walls, etc...and guess what???

I decided that keeping my Kitchen nook and using it as a breakfast room, kid art table, and homework area was the best for our family (2 kids 3 &6). I also vowed to use the "formal" dining room for dinner...guess what? since the remodel and getting wood in the dining room with less furniture in there to improve flow...we are using the dining room almost every night for dinner and I love it!

Of course it is right off the kitchen, but is separated by a wall...from almost every seat in the dining room you can see out a window/door....it is wonderful. It is open to the "formal" living room. Because I got rid of the carpet I was able to put two tables together for a girl scout cookie decorating party and was able to seat 12 six year olds and clean up was a breeze.

I wouldn't change my choices for anything....though I do miss a stool in the kitchen proper like I had a my grandma's tiny kitchen!

Long live the barefoot house...I live in So. Cal and I hate wearing shoes, but I don't care if people wear them in my house....

I love to hear how everyone makes things work for them.

Boxerpups, those are the darned cutest monkeys ever!

Frankie, I'm with you on correctly configured and sized rooms. My dining room has a dim window (huge prehistoric philodendron view), and large bright french doors that open onto the back patio and rose arbor. Very inviting. And it opens off of the kitchen. Sometime in the 70's or so they stopped making the dining room open directly from the kitchen in a lot of houses, making them very inconvenient. You're so right about that!!

In a properly sized breakfast room, everyone can get around the table, and there is a counter or buffet or dresser or some of each for moving all the accoutrements to. A basket for the newspaper, a surface for the phone, mail, phonebook, etc., a box of kleenex. Then shifting stuff off the table is easy. Because it's all coming to that table no matter what. And once a day all the stuff on the surfaces can be easily put away. (My favorite time is after breakfast when the papers and all have been abandoned, and the new mail hasn't come in.)

I had a lot of theories about what sort of house I'd want for my eventual family. Then I fell in love with a neighborhood and we bought the house we could afford. It has a traditional layout -- dining room next to the kitchen -- and we didn't change that during our recent remodel. We've got three kids now, and they love to help me cook -- no way was I giving up any prep space for eating space when I usually have at least one helper and usually more, and no way was I giving up storage space for knee space. And I couldn't push out a the back of the house, because we need as much yard as possible.
So we eat all our meals in our dining room (with the crummy table from my grad school days and the cheapo carpet from Overstock, at least until they're old enough not to spill regularly). I like to think we're turning them into people who will know how to comport themselves properly at meals. Although I learned to do that eating meals in the kitchen, so whatever.

LOL Pllog...is that what that space is for? And there is a phone, an original wired in (look to the middle of the pic on the far left...it's sticking out of the wall)
{{gwi:1988423}}

I must confess I haven't been able to figure out how to use the space, but have found a dozen or more antique phones around the house so I was thinking of hanging them on the wall with the existing phone...I guess if it's a phone nook I'd be doing well to go with that idea LOL

{{gwi:1988424}}

Yes, totally OT but funny and embaressing story...the SWAT team paid a visit last week. It was the day the movers were here, all doors had been open at one time or another, half a dozen movers, and I found a couple of strangers wandering the house (they wanted to book a room...the inn sign is still up..must remove that soon!) anyhoo, so DH was out of town and I called mom in to babysit while I rushed out for a couple of hours for a charity event. I came back, tired, kissed mom goodbye and DS and I went to the playroom (basement) for the rest of the evening. At 9:30 while coming up the stairs, I heard what sounded like water from a flushed toilet coming down the pipes. Since we were alone in the house that wasn't supposed to happen. The dog raced up the stairs barking his annoying head off, then went silent (not like him) and wouldn't answer my calls. I wasn't sure what to do, called him over and over, then decided since the house had been full of strangers, and we had a few stragglers that maybe I should call and have someone make sure no one was upstairs before I took the 4 year old up to bed.

I expected one or two police men...they showed, then as I was being tucked safely into the gardners cottage (guarded by a big man with a big big gun) the lights suddenly went out. I tried to open the door to tell them that was the auto timer, (goes off at ten for all central lighting) but he pushed it closed and said "stay quiet and keep safe" Ok well he had a big gun so I wasn't going to argue...but then the dozen SWAT guys showed up...with bigger guns. They swarmed all over the house....scared the crap out of that stupid dog and he still didn't bark (I was afraid they'd shoot him...or hoping...I don't know which LOL)

So it turns out that it was pipes clearing because two sinks on the top floor had water running ::eyes rolling:: How freaking embaressing...and more so due to the SWAT response LOL I didn't turn them on though, and since we've been in the house a month and I have never heard that sound I just didn't know...that and the stupid dog...well let's just say I have to bake some cookies to send down to police hall LOL

Mom swears she didn't turn the water on, so all I can think is that maybe one of the movers did because they were asking about pipes freezing etc (it was cold that day) but they were long gone so who knows...I'd like to smack whoever did do it though LOL Cuz that was beyond embaressing!!!

Lesson learned, small town, SWAT team with few calls to get their gear on for....Next time I'm locking the little guy in the carriage house and checking the danged house myself LMAO (They were pretty impressive though LOL and they scared the dog silent for one full night! I'm thinking of calling regularly heh heh)

Back to your regularly scheduled program....

Oh, phew! I thought we'd lost Igloo's story in the backup restore fiasco.

Igloo, I hope you're saving these as you write them. Your stories are wonderful!!!

I commend you for being safe, and what better way to get to know the civic employees of your new neighborhood?

If that nook is in a hallway, and especially on the entry level, yeah, I'd guess it's a telephone nook. I'm repeating myself (lost in the restore), but back when telephones were first installed in fancy houses they got pride of place. Additionally, they pulled in a lot of ambient noise, so having a telephone nook gave the user privacy and made it easier for both parties to hear. I had a vestigial '20's-'30's telephone nook once. I kept books there. It would be great if you could keep the character of your deliciously luxurious telephone nook, by using it for things like family message center, planning desk, etc. Or maybe a computer nook. I mean, I love your house altogether, but I especially love that nook!!!

We use our dining room daily for dinner - including music and candles. The kids love it. We also use it for most of our other meals. We rarely use the kitchen table. Right now I don't have an island. In our renovations I will have a larger kitchen table (seats 7 or 8)and an island with seating for 2. I think they will get more use because it will have a better view and feel more open - but we will still use the dining room for dinner daily. The dining room is one seating area I would keep.

It's interesting to note that our 1825 house largest's room was the dining room at 28' long (I think). When they turned the house into a 2 family in the 1910's they downsized the dining room to 18' long with a 7' doorway into the living room that can make the room 28' long on one end. We add tables to make an "L" and can seat 20+. I have to buy more chairs though. When we have close to 30 then the kids are sent to the kitchen to the kids' table including piano bench for two (plus the really small table for the toddlers) I love my dining room and would never give it up. Growing up we had a dining room but it was farther from the kitchen and was used for only special occasions.

Igloo,
LOL oh my oh my oh my..... big guns and bad men thank
goodness the SWAT was there to confort the dog.
Thanks for the post.
~boxerpups

LOL Pllog...you are now officially invited to come over and explain all of the goofy little quirks of my house to me!

Here's the front hall taken from half way up the stairs:
{{gwi:1824593}}

You see the nook off to the right. And here's the nook...the frame of the front door is the brown on the left of the shot:
{{gwi:1610627}}

It's definately pride of place and received the fancy floor treatment as well (not all rooms have it). I wondered why they would put a little coat hanging place here when they have a hall tree in the hall.

I'm so excited...I can hang all of the other phones on the wall with the current one and highlight the function in a fun way. I'll still add coat hooks on a rail I think and a bench for shoes etc to be dropped (we're from Alaska and always take our shoes off inside...it's odd but it's what we do).

I'm going to have to go call DH and tell him what the space is LOL If I had a phone in there I'd call from there heh heh

On the messy kids topic...we work on manners, but I have one who drops nary a crumb and one who manages to get food in his hair on a regular basis. Same mom. Same rules. Just different kids. The dog likes to sit under the messy one.

Kids can be funny - my son was a neat freak as a kid, never dropped a bit. My daughter - well, we just put plastic under her chair and bought Spray-n-wash by the case.

However as adults - you can't even find the floor in Son's room and Daughter won't even eat finger food as she might get a smear on her fingers.

But back to the subject, I decided to trade my den and dining room around to bring the dining room closer to the kitchen. I still plan on having a seating area in the kitchen or my husband will be dragging a chair in from the adjoining dining room so he can sit and talk while I'm cooking/cleaning. I have a temporay kitchen set up and hauled out a small folding table and two chairs so we would have something to sit on (real table is now in the library and real chairs are upstairs in the family room).

And sure enough, he drags the chair back and forth. I love to cook/spend time in the kitchen and he likes to spend time with me.

However I will draw the line if he tries to clamp his reloading press on my marble island top!

Cathy

I agree with the PPs. You can teach manners, but some kids are just messier than others(adults, too.) DS1 has been known to have pizza sauce in the armpit of his shirt. Why? How? Who knows? DS2 and I were having a pretend picnic. He grabbed the pretend lemonade from his plastic kitchen and slipped on his way back to the picnic blanket and was very upset about the imaginary spill. Same parents, same upbringing, very different personalities.

As for the original question: we got rid of our kitchen table in the renovation annexing the space for more kitchen storage. We do have 4 counter height stools at the peninsula. The kitchen table was a clutter magnet and never used. The peninsula is used for breakfast & lunches. The DR or patio are used for dinner. Or sometimes dinner is thrown at a kid in the backseat while racing from one sporting event to another. Option 3 is certainly not the preferred option, but sometimes can't be avoided particularly in the fall when DS1 runs cross country for school and plays club-league football and travel lacrosse(only 2 fall tournaments,) as well as treblemakers(glee club) practices.

LOL!! Deb, I did say I thought your floor solution was genius!! And I wasn't referring to your kids either. Just endorsing the idea of getting good floors and working on the kids' manners rather than getting a hose it down room and plastic dishes and turning them loose. I totally get the rubber mat for dog's best friend!! Genius.

Igloo, you have me in stitches!! Again. I love the doorway into the telephone nook too. So what else is there? I know you know where the dumbwaiter was. And you're more likely to recognize a coal chute than I, from the land of natural gas. If you have any too small rooms on the bedroom floors, they might be a linen room and a sewing room. A linen room would be the size and configuration of a good sized pantry or walk-in closet. A sewing room might even be a little smaller, but more likely to have a window.

I'm sure my SWAT adventure will make front page news (it really is a small town) LOL So i'll never forget it.

Ya'll are cracking me up talking about taking care of the floor because of messy kids. In our house, it's likely ME who spilled the stain causing liquid (ok red wine). DS will then follow my spill up with crackers ground into the wet carpet by Thomas the train (he loves a good mess). My secret to success...patterened carpet. I'm trying to find one with large splotches of red splashed across it but so far, despite what I feel is a crucial need for america, such a carpet does not exist.

Pllog...sadly the little nooks and crannies off the bedrooms are all gone. When they turned it into an appartment building in the 40's those disapeared. We did learn recently that there is an 8x8 or so space behind our master bath and closet that just sits there empty...nothing in it but dust and probably a skeleton or two. We do have a lovely room built off of the 2nd floor (and the first) in the early 20's which was used by the servants. The one on the first floor will be our family dining room and the one off the second will be turned into an old fashioned linen room (with washer and dryer because now I have to haul the laundry outside and down a pokey set of cement stairs to a dank basement that even an elvis CD played 24/7 won't make it feel welcoming).

There was a large walk in closet but it's now two bathrooms. They will go and the closet comes back :) In the mean time I'm learning to love hanging my silks on the edge of old gilt framed floral pictures...they work well until the plaster cracks...and if I really had silk to hang they'd probably work better, but alas, it's the heavy sweatshirts that kill them.

Our future hope for discovery is to figure out where all of the fireplaces were (there were 9 and 4 stoves). I do know where the coal shuttles are (there are 2) as I stare at them when I sit in the plastic crap room (basement family room). And gad girl...I miss my natural gas! (Said in different company that might not sound good).

I found the sewing room...sure it's originally the wood storage room but a girl can't be picky. DH thinks it's the future pool room (he's picked a lovely pool table with lions for a pedestal) but it will be a cold day in heck before you find me sewing in the hallway...where he might be able to fit a smaller pool table LOL Or maybe I could get him a video game....

What was this thread about LOL

John - I have to admit that I read through postings yesterday and it definitely got me thinking... as we are struggling w/ this exact dilema. I returned tonight to find 70+ responses, which is amazing so thanks for posing the question.

In our "breakfast area" - which is really too small and too much of a flow/traffic zone, we're currently contemplating whether to put in bench seating w/ a table vs. a counter-level "bar" only vs. a small table with comfy seating for 2. I expect we'll use our real dining room more often that originally planned... but now it's less "formal" b/c it's been opened up a lot more to its surrounding space. We're going to mock-up/tape out the area and figure out what fits. The GW responses have provided lots of useful guidance though.

Querry: would not one of those top floor servant's rooms--or a couple, one for storage, one for work--be better for sewing than a basement? Think light and air.

But that's probably the extent of my knowledge of nooks. Well that and an inkling that if the historical "walk in closet" is original, and those two bathrooms are normal sized, I'd hazzsrd a guess that it was originally a "dressing room". Free standing wardrobes with clothes hanging front to back, and a dressing table with mirrors.

Okay, I concede on the messy kids issue. I've never known one. Lots who weren't tidy with clothes and toys, but not the all food equals grime types.

Lax, I actually know a couple of ways pizza sauce can wind up in an armpit, but you probably don't want to know.

In my own kitchen, I really wanted the big center farmhouse table. Or even the moderate sized one. Since the walls couldn't change, in the end I had to admit that the best plan wasn't vastly differently arranged than the orriginal kitchen. It's just how things best fit. I did take out the huge useless peninsula where all the seating was, but was never used, and ended with a fold down table on the back of the island for those little sit in the kitchen tasks. It seats two pretty comfortably (assuming the brackets don't block knees. And could probably accomocate four very very snuggly. Total compromise. I would have rather had a breakfast room, but needed another 15 sq. ft. So the dining room will continue to be the site of all dining and I will continue to keep an eye out for messy grown-ups trying to spill wine on my carpet.

We only have 3 guest rooms left (ok 4, one for mom) but 3 are on the top floor. It's four floors above the play room and play yard, which isn't terribly practical if I'm going to pretend to be an attentive mother on occasion. (And I really must because of the whole crackers ground into the carpet thing) heh heh Someday I'd consider taking over mom's room on the 2nd floor if we don't manage to recreate our image in a future child...but for now, it's the "mom's room/nursery" space so it's off limits.

But you've not seen my basement...not quite dank and dark:

{{gwi:1988425}}

20x20 room with a fireplace adjoining DS's play room and the family room so I can sew and pretend to be an attentive parent :) We can't afford the danged pool table he wants anyhoo and we need draperies in every room...so I believe for now I'll win out LOL

OK back OT...DC, in our townhouse our breakfast nook is in a bay window. There is actually no movable seating, it's all bench made from cabinet bases (custom made to size but still, cabinets with nice drawers). It's deep enough to be comfy, provides adequate seating to enjoy coffee or a snack or even a meal, and yet does not eat up walk way space because the seating is on the back side of the space verses having a chair that would be in the isle area...I don't know if that makes sense, but I thought I'd share...it might work for your situation and bench seating can be comfy if planned right.

Oh, well if that's your basement...

No ground floor billiard's parlor?

What bothers me is a formal dining room that is only used once a year--though, that's a personal choice and if you can have one, go for it.

We eat in our dining room...every meal. I don't know if it counts as "formal" or not...

We have always eaten dinner in our dining room...even at our former home that had an eat-in kitchen. Of course, we had bare hardwood floors until just recently. The rug is new...

What a great thread - finally had a chance to read through it.

What zeebee said! Our GC tried to talk us into opening up the DR to the kitchen - no way. We love having a "formal" dining room. It's an intimate room and we have whiled many an evening way there with family and friends. But be warned - for those who want to keep people out of the kitchen - even with limited seating, it is the natural gathering spot. We can seat three comfortably (four at a squeeze) and have ended up eating in the kitchen more often than not when its just one other couple. We use the island to serve both apps and mains from when there are more people and they love hanging there (and unlike John, I love being able to FINALLY participate in the conversation while I continue cooking).

As someone mentioned, I am also amazed at how many here can seat very large numbers in their dining rooms. Our house is  by most standards  a modest size, less than 2000 sq. ft., and while it is perfect for the two of us, the only time we wish we had a bit more space was during the holidays. We did squeeze 14 in the DR for Christmas dinner this year, and it worked pretty well, but it was cozy!

Igloo, gorgeous house! Can I move in your basement? :-)

Eliz

dcfixerupper says

'' In our "breakfast area" - which is really too small and too much of a flow/traffic zone, we're currently contemplating whether to put in bench seating w/ a table vs. a counter-level "bar" only vs. a small table with comfy seating for 2. I expect we'll use our real dining room more often that originally planned... but now it's less "formal" b/c it's been opened up a lot more to its surrounding space. We're going to mock-up/tape out the area and figure out what fits. The GW responses have provided lots of useful guidance thoug ''

You could bump your original thread, or start a new one, w/ floorplans of the whole breakfast/dining/kitchen/family room? (Maybe you have posted those, I can't recall.) Folks' interests here aren't limited to kitchens, it appears . . .

This thread is great...both the topic and IglooChic's stories! This is definitely a keeper (and maybe I can sneak it into the "Read Me" thread...???)

On topic...

In our old kitchen we had an eat-in kitchen that could seat 6 - if you didn't need to use the kitchen for anything else! Even just 4 became too many when our children outgrew the booster seats! (Both my children are very tall & long-legged for their ages...and probably will be as adults as well!)

We also had a formal DR that only got used at Easter, Thanksgiving, and Christmas...at least for eating. The rest of the year it was home to all our mail (junk & not-junk) as well as a sewing room when necessary and a place for my computer when I worked from home.

This DR is rather small...13'8" x 11'1" and really doesn't have room for a large, formal DR set (table, chairs, china cabinet, buffet).

Since we couldn't afford an addition on the house, even just the kitchen (which is what our KD really wanted us to do, but EXPO wouldn't let her...no modifying external walls, load-bearing walls, or roofs was their "rule"), and we knew we needed more table space for everyday as well as more counter & cabinet storage, it became a no-brainer (for us, anyway). We converted the Formal DR into what I call an "Informal DR/Formal Kitchen" dining space.
We took down the wall b/w the DR & Kitchen to open up the DR b/c it was so small.
We put in a peninsula b/w the rooms for some separation (we had seen another house in our development w/a similar floorplan remove the wall completely and the combined rooms looked like a bowling alley...we didn't like it at all!)
We didn't want to give up seating in the kitchen totally (especially my DH since he likes to watch TV at breakfast), so we added two seats at the peninsula. Yes, the two seating areas are close (a little too close, if truth be known), but they're rarely used at the same time.
We totally eliminated all other seating in the Kitchen and doubled the amount of counter space and cabinet storage.

Taken together, these changes were a huge improvement on how our Kitchen & DR work and fit together in the rest of the house. I do find that I occasionally miss the DR "drop zone", but I'm trying to train everyone to use the "one touch" strategy...touch an item once & either put it away or throw it out...especially effective with mail, btw! I haven't been totally successful yet, but it's getting better.

So now, we have: Two seats at the peninsula
A DR table that seats 10 - 12 (or would if we had enough surviving chairs...it's an old, inexpensive set we inherited from my in-laws when they sold their house & moved into an apartment. The chairs are slowly breaking one-by-one and aren't worth fixing. Someday I'll have my "dream" DR set...but not until the kids are out of college...8 years from now *sigh* Well, not too heavy a sigh as I'm not looking forward to them leaving home!)

I've gotten many, many compliments from family & friends about the new kitchen, the open feel both the kitchen & DR now have, and the fact that we now use all the rooms in our house all the time!

LOL Yes Buehl you can have the story...though I could clean it up a bit as it was written late at night (I'm making that up...could have been noon and I'm just a sloppy writer). Anyhoo, it's yours LOL Keep it as a reminder that you're better off confronting a single absent minded toilet flushing burgler than you are dealing with a dozen guys with big guns screaming "SWAT TEAM, COME OUT WITH YOUR HANDS UP!!!" (I swear I almost came out of the cottage with my hands up and I think I saw the deer in the garden start to raise their paws.....)

Hey hint for those with smaller dining rooms (my dining room in anchorage seats 8 only if I do this trick...). For a larger party, scoot your table onto a diagonal in a that is longer than it is deep. You can normally work out a couple of extra seats with a leaf addition if it's on this type of angle).

Or go eat with Eliz...what a lovely holiday setting. And thank you :) Yes you can move in, but I'm running out of rooms (which I would have thought was impossible in a house of this size!) You'll have to take over the plastic crap room or the laundry room outside in the other basement....or we can arm wrestle for a guest room on the top floor (our guests have to be tough...three flights LOL but the view is worth it).

Oh, how I'm enjoying this thread!

I'm only in the "dream on paper" phase, prior to meeting the architect and sharing my ideas. BUT, here is what we invision, as a couple (and hopefully growing family):
-a spacious kitchen that can accomodate many feet. Growing up, we always stood in the kitchen to talk.
-a lowered space attached to the island where the children can eat. Tall stools would worry me while they are young, which will be the case for us. Nothing big, just big enough to seat two or three....and where I can write shopping lists/pull out the laptop/clip coupons/etc while they nap (yeah right, right? haha)
-a large dining room just off the kitchen with kid-friendly furniture; not formal, just comfortable, but big enough for guests. I dream of a room open on one side and windowed on the other three.
-a small area at the end of the kitchen with a fireplace and room for two cozy chairs; I want to be able to snuggle up and read a book to someone while dinner is in the oven. I dream of a home that's gracious but family friendly, one that says, "Hey, kick your shoes off and stay awhile. This is home."

I know, I know, clearly the words of a NOT YET mother, right? :)

Young-Gardener,

It sounds like a lovely plan. The only thing, is it would be better if there were room by the fire for the whole family. Can you squeeze in two cozy chairs with ottomans and a kitchen chair or two? Or a couple less cozy chairs and all the kitchen chairs?

And be sure to leave room for a train set and half a dozen hunks of useless (to your eyes, not your tots) bright plastic pieces that they can't live without....