What a wonderfully helpful post! Which scale do you recommend, by the way? I've been looking for a long time.

Trailrunner, I enjoy your posts very much and often have learned that some things I havn't tryed because I thought it was to hard, are not, and I shall indead try to make them . I printed out the post so I can refer back to it.
Thanks again and I shall be watching for your next post on what ever it is.

Thanks for the tips! Bread baking is on my list of things to try in the new year.

I've tried a lot of different pizza dough recipies before finding one I liked. It's from Evan Kleinman, Angeli Cafe in Los Angeles, and it's a relatively stiff dough -- essentially you make a batter with 5 parts flour, then add another 2 parts flour (quantities are larger than your recipe).

Caroline... thanks for the informative post and pizza dough recipe. That'll be my first band night dinner after the New Year! Do you think I could make each pizza larger? Do pizza stones come larger then 12"? I have to buy a few.

I'm experimenting with bread baking today, so you know I'm getting comfortable with the process. We have another Hanukkah party to go to so I'm baking a challah but added raisins into each braid and then rolled each braid in cinnamon sugar. I'll let you know how it turns out. I'm also baking a cake that you soak in peach syrup, fill with chopped peaches, and top with whipped cream. The kids all love it and it's very moist. All this while simultaneously working on sanding my baker's table. Lot's of hand washing going on in between I promise!!

Thank you ALL !! I didn't add final internal baking temp. You should measure the temp of the bread to be sure it is done. I always thumped my bread on the bottom and for the most part over the decades it has been fine. But it is nice to know that the internal temp is really done. Aim for the center of the bread with a good digital thermo...I have the Pyrex one and it seems to be just fine. Done is anywhere between 205-210 F. As the water leaves the bread the temp rises...if it is not quite done don't wait too long just another 5 min and recheck. It is like many other things you cook . It goes from not done to too done in minutes.

Hey Kitchen : I have the Salter digital scale. It weighs down to the tiny amounts you need. It only goes up to 4# though but that is OK for now. I am going to get another bigger one this year.

themommy1: I am so glad that you are trying new things. I find that it is scary and fun. I love helping others explore the world of baking and also finding how to really use these great kitchens we are designing.

blue I would love to see that recipe. I am always looking for new ones. I hope you will post pics and tips of your own as you start baking bread.

elyse : this is the stone I got , from Amazon. They have gone up up in price. I loke the 14x16. I need another one also . I found that I could just fit 2 pizzas next to each other on this stone...a little hang over on the side ( haha). Of course you can make the pizza crusts bigger. Just divide up the dough into larger parcels...I had 9oz batches. The bigger they are the harder they are to handle I find. So that is why I started doing the individual ones. Each person then makes it how ever they want it. They really had a fun time. I would like to have that peach recipe. We love peaches ! c

Here is a link that might be useful: pizza stone

That's great info.. when I started out, I used the Bread Bible by Rose Levy Berenbaum-- the introductory section was a big help in understanding scaling the ingredients, mixing, gluten development, shaping, proofing, scoring, baking, and cooling-- great starting point.

Thanks for all the tips. I'll have to see if I can "borrow" Hubby's digital scale for my next ventures into baking. Never thought about the salt difference. I always use sea salt but I grind it. Will have to check the weight on that.

Trailrunner, here goes:
--dissolve 1 pkg (1/4 oz) active dry yeast in 1/4 C. lukewarm water and proof for about 15 minutes; 1/2 tsp sugar can be added here.
--In a very large bowl or on the counter, mix the proofed yeast/water with 2 1/2 C. flour, 3 Tbsp olive oil, 1 C. cold water, and 2 tsp salt (don't cut down the salt -- I found this out the hard way). Stir ingredients together to make a thick batter. Then add, slowly (1/4 C. at a time) and by hand, kneading: up to 1 C. more flour. Keep adding flour and kneading until the dough is still soft but not sticky and you can't incorporate any more flour.
--Place the dough in an oiled bowl in a warm spot to rise, about 1 hour. Punch it down, knead, divide into smaller balls, and let it rise again (in fridge overnight or on counter for about 1 hour). Roll out or stretch out by hand when ready. Dough can be refrigerated, covered, for several days.
--This recipe makes about 8 to 12 individual pizzas, perhaps 6" diameter each. I usually make it in the summer when the dough rises outdoors, then grill or bake individual pizzas.

I have the Rose Levy Birnbaum Pie & Pastry Bible cookbook and I'm just amazed at the amount of detail. I'm sure her bread book is the same way. I tend to cook by feel and by taste, so my measurements are very imprecise.

Thank you blue...that sounds very good and doable. I love Rose's books too. we are having a big group for pizza on Jan 4 so I am going to try your crust next. THANKS.

pb and danielle I hope you both will cont. to contribute...it makes it so much more interesting. c

so nice of you to spend the time to share all of that. I am seriously considering taking up bread baking after reading all of your posts. What strikes me the most is the sheer joy you obviously take from your work in the kitchen... it comes through loud and clean in your posts and is inspiring to me. We have a great bakery close by to us (it is in Salem, MA - for anyone in the area it is A and J King Bakery... visit them) and I so enjoy their bread and their story (husband and wife who met in culinary school and both bakers... opened their own bakery to raves all around - working hard but making it - true success story AND so nice to be in their bakery - feels very European and GREAT espresso and cappucino). I buy most of my bread here but once the dust settles in my life, I hope to try your recipes. Thanks again for sharing. Link below to my favorite bakery (with some technical info you might like)! enjoy.

ps: am hoping to try Thalia for lunch tomorrow... thanks so much for the tips!

Here is a link that might be useful: A & J King

mama that is a great web site and a wonderful story. My son and dil met at NECI also where A and J King went to school ! Great cooincidence ! If I had them near me and those prices I would probably NEVER bake again !!!

Make sure and get the polenta with the mushrooms at Thalia. Each time I go I get it. It is a fave restaurant when I am there and cat_mom and I eat out too !

Becco is so GOOD! They are very popular though so I am not sure about a reservation on short notice. If you can get in though you will love it.

My brother and his family are directly across from the Carnegie Deli in the Wyoming. BTW the sandwichs at the deli are over priced and just a bunch of meat....the little French cafe on the corner of 7th ave and I think 53 rd?? is wonderful much better food for a quick lunch. Sorry name escapes me. Can't miss it , they have a lovely outdoor area. Also Russo's is a great bar....located in the Sheraton. Have a GREAT time !! c

For Christmas I asked for and received a hand operated grain mill. I made four loaves of basic Italian bread yesterday using freshly milled hard white wheatberries.

Perfectly delicious. I felt great knowing my grandchildren were eating fresh and nutritious bread instead of store bought white.

Although I've been baking bread for years, I never knew about a lot of the facts in Trailrunner's original post. It may be time for a bit of an education.

Hoping everyone has a restful Sunday after Christmas.

Oy! If I had worried about all that weighing when I started baking bread, I would never have done it. However, I know from experience that there is a difference in flours - not only types, but brands. King Arthur, if you can get it - but my last bag of white wh.wh. flour had wevils in it. Bleh.

I never make bread with sugar unless it is challah. And when I was pregnant the first time, I was on a salt free diet - so I simply left the salt out of the bread recipe. I was being so brilliant - LOL - the bread rose so much more while it was baking that it stuck to the sides of the oven. I learned that you need salt to control the leavening.

dian I would love to know more about the mill , brand etc and also where you get the wheat to grind.Please post pics of your baking. It is so wonderful that you are contributing.

rayna....same here. I knew nothing and it was all good !! But I am trying new stuff and that is fun although when I look at what the bakers on The Fresh Loaf are doing....talk about Oy!! I feel like a rank amateur ! BTW what has happened with your oven ???

You gotta post pics when you get back from your trip. c

I love bread, so your posts are some of my favorites! I hope more people around here become interested in it-- it is such a wonderful hobby.

I think it's great that all the time and care was taken with this post, and am happy it's helping some, but I'm with Rayna, I'm afraid...If I read all that I'd think I could NEVER bake bread, and afraid it might scare people like me off of trying.

I have never owned a scale, never used a thermometer when readying ingredients, and used whatever salt I have on hand...and have baked bread for years and years. After using recipes for the first couple of times, my measurements are never precise with bread, and I'm always throwing in this or that to change it up. I hope others will just dive in with a simple recipe and ingredients and tools readily available to them, and see how it can work.

I used to use just whatever all-purpose flour I had, but have to add that I now feel much better about using the healthier flour I mill fresh from Montana Prairie Gold Wheat (hard white). (Sounds complex, but is super easy, and some stores have a grinder so you don't have to buy your own. Just be sure to refrigerate or freeze the flour. Using it within a week is best.) The other improvement for me was getting a large bread mixer for 5-6 loaves at a time.

danielle me TOO !

rhome yep I just started out in 1975 and had no problem. The main reason that I posted the details is that there are a lot of folks here that have never tried and may really want the "rules" to follow so that they will feel more comfortable. Some folks are much more likely to start if you lay out all the fundamentals. Now they can look at all the pics on the web and at the recipes and pick and choose from the stuff that they think will help. I am impressed with how many new bakers we have already got going here. All the posts this past summer from everyone .showing KItchens at Work, I think,has helped inspire more folks to try new things.
If anyone feels overwhelmed PLEASE don't ! It is all good and a loaf that isn't perfect is still special because you tried and now have a basis for working on more loaves. One loaf at a time.....c

There's a lot of room for error in bread-baking, as long as you have the correct ingredients and understand the basics (any introduction to an artisan bread baking cookbook will suffice.. hammelman, leader, glezer are 3 good authors). I've been in the middle of proofing dough and had to run out for a few hours... all I did was put the proofing dough in the fridge.. when I got home, I took it out and picked up where I left off. My 7-year-old can do baguettes... rustic ones with a no-knead recipe (involved folding the dough every 30 minutes for three hours.. no pre-ferment or sourdough started needed).

In any case, trailrunner was a lot more concised and focused-- I'm mostly a cheerleader-- don't be afraid-- just experiment. The great thing about bread is that the ingredients are really inexpensive, so if you mess up, you can learn from your mistake without getting annoyed about how much you spent.

Several weeks ago, someone provided this link for an Easy to make home made bread. If you can stand to watch the silly video a couple of times and copy down the ingredients you cannot go wrong. I've made it at least four times It is incredibly easy and absolutely delicious. It is fabulous as is, but next time I am going to try it with a little whole grain flour to improve the nutritional content.

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E68iNfRHBpI

I just looked for this post to show off my newest baking creation and saw danielle's post which is exactly what mine was going to be about! I did a search on the cooking forum for some kind of Italian bread since I was making veggies and pasta tonight. I needed something that only had to proof for a few hours as I decided this early afternoon. I found some recipe (whose I now can't remember!) that was imbedded into a very long and informative post. I coudln't do it exact since I was short on bread flour so I combined AP flour with it. There were no clear instructions since the poster was obviously writing to share with experienced bakers. BUT... based on ratios of water/flour/yeast/sugar etc... I guesstimated. The thing with this bread (I think it's kinda like a cross between a ciabetta like bread and Italian bread) is on the last rise you inbed small chunks of chunk paramesan cheese into the dough. I used locatelli romano. I then brushed the top with EVOO and sprinkled with grinded sea salt, some grated cheese, and herbs. I didnt' have rosemary so I used thyme I think. I heated a corning ware in a hot oven for about 40 minutes and then placed the bread into it and baked. Look what came out!

It was a denser bread then the artisan bread but very light and absolutely delicious. DH said it was the most delicious bread he's ever eaten. I know I'm getting confident when I start tweaking.

Danielle was so very right. Bread baking seems as if it's very forgiving. I'm still amazed that it actually comes out looking like a bread. I think Caroline has started a baking revolution! Thanks to all... I've said this before... but this forum is THE BEST!

OH... sesame seeds too!

Well where were you tonight as DH was doing strip steak on the griddle pan and I was frying fries in the Miele...we needed some fresh Italian bread....I didn't bother with pics as I don't want to be redundant.

YOU ARE ALL AMAZING !!!!! If I am gone tomorrow ....well hopefully NOT ! So let's keep baking....one loaf at a time . c

remodelfla that looks and sounds delicious. So what recipe did you use?

Ironically enough, Hubby asked me tonight on the way home from Mom and Dad's if we had the stuff to make home made pizza. I immediately thought of this thread and I expect pizza to be in our near(ish) future. Need to get some mozzarella and parm cheese at minimum. Then at some point we'll need to discuss pizza stone acquisition...

P.S.: I took a loaf of the granola bread that I made to dinner at Mom and Dad's tonight. It was a hit.

pbrisjar... fante's carries refractory tiles-- I use those instead of a pizza stone since I can put as many or as few stones in at a time (I think they are 6 x 6). I also bake bread on them-- the retain heat very well and can accommodate two long loaves (or two round loaves.

Thanks for the primer, Caroline. I made bread yesterday following all your suggestions except weighing the flour. I do not have a scale. The bread turned out very nicely. It was denser and much easier to slice than what I had been making. I used a new recipe, too. DH takes a lunch to work, so I make bread at least twice a week just for lunches.

I am anxious to try your pizza dough recipe. Our pizza on Christmas was good, but the crust was too cracker-crispy. I think the kids made the crusts too thin. Sorry, no pictures. The family doesn't share my interest in GW :)

I am surrounded by family that ONLY takes an interest in food and loves to pose.....it is a curse some days ! I am so glad that you made bread and that you were pleased with the result. This pizza is crispy crackery since I 3x baked it...once to set it up...once to reheat and then topped and baked. I am having a huge party on Sunday so will let you know how that goes w/o the 3x bake. There are so many recipes out there and so little time...also I can only run and bike so many miles :)

Check out the Fresh Loaf...there are tons of great bakers and more ideas than a body can stand :) c

My sweet tarte Maddie ....with the apple tarte she made ( DD )

Maddie is a sweetie! The apple tart looks delicious.

I took a peek at (and bookmarked) the Fresh Loaf. It has some good information, but not nearly as easy to access as GW :)

Let us know how the pizza turns out Sunday. Have FUN!

Has anyone reading this thread have any experience with the
garlic bread that is served at Mama Mia's at 85th Street and Greenfield
in West Allis Wisconsin?

Their garlic bread is TO DIE FOR!!!

Does ANYONE know how to make it or have the actual recipe?

IMHO - you HAVE NOT LIVED - Until you've has Garlic Bread from Mama Mia's...

They are not out here in Phoenix, AZ - So I'd like to make it for myself if I
can find out how they do it...

ANY help will be greatly appreciated!!!

Thanks

kevin

Still trying to get that recipe - Sorry for this being off topic, but
like I have said-

You R E A L L Y HAVE NOT LIVED....
until you've had Mamma Mia's World Famous Garlic Bread

Thanks in advance to anyone that can help out with THE recipe!!!

kevin

I've been reading these and all of trailrunner's post. They are just great. All the hints were great. I bake bread out of boredom, I rarely use a recipe, for better or worse and like the wet doughs as well as quicker higher yeast doughs for pizza. Someday I'll get that "super peel" with the cloth belt thingy. I am forced to pre-cook my thin pizza crusts without one-

My favorite bread is an olive bread that is made locally in the East Bay and sold now only at the local Berkeley farmer's market- you can go to their bakery, and they will sell stuff to you, but it's not a store front, no sales help, no hours- if they are there they'll sell it to you- they're also fresh pasta makers- 'Phoenix Pastificio'- if you're ever in the area. I've never tried to make that bread, it's almost Holy to me...( although I know he uses a biga and those black Kalamata olives). It has a thin almost black burnt crust, with large ciabatta holes to the crumb and flavor to die for.

alex that sounds so yummy ! I precook the crust too. We like so much topping that it never wants to slide off the peel!

az- I have searched there is so mention anywhere of their bread. You should just call them and ask how they do it. Can't hurt. c

At what temperature do you have to par bake the pizza dough & then bake again with the toppings? Also which rack in the oven should we use. Thanks.

This thread is 10 years old, so I would guess that few, if any, of the original people are still here to answer your question. Post the recipe and your questions on the Cooking forum for responses.