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Have to post this. Bellajourney and I have been working....

Posted by deedles (My Page) on
Sat, Dec 1, 12 at 12:05

I have to post this pic. Since the "which cab with my sink thread", Bella and I have been conspiring to work on my kitchen layout and design. She, for learning the kitchen program and me, well... duh.

I can't express how hugely helpful this has been in tweaking my almost perfect (to me) layout. Being able to see the various ideas in almost real life has headed off at least several 'could have been' mistakes (one of which would have been huge, leaving me with not nearly enough countertop space). Looking at some flights of fancy have caused most to be discarded and several to stick. Re-examining illogical mindsets (sick of white cabinets, no room for prep sink, etc) and being able to SEE how letting go of those mindsets has opened up true possibilities has been very.... good.

I cannot improve upon the layout anymore IMO. I believe this is MY one true layout.

Although this is still a work in progress as we are still tweaking the ultimate design and finishes (and I hope she doesn't get mad at me but she's not around to ask if she minds if I post this), I present to you, version #968,534 of my future kitchen, courtesy of our very own Bella with her patience, persistence, good humor AND her mad, mad, kitchen computer program skilz:

p.s. The appliances are stainless. They just look black in this particular rendering.

Photobucket


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Have to post this. Bellajourney and I have been working....

that is pretty amazing. good job.

i think your backsplash needs a pencil line...still so hard to type or i would explain. hope you know what i mean.


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RE: Have to post this. Bellajourney and I have been working....

Hmmmm.......looks great. But do you have enough non-glass uppers to store the not-so-pretty stuff?


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RE: Have to post this. Bellajourney and I have been working....

I do know what you mean and it's on the wheel of options for down the road. Don't type. You still have boo-boo's!


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RE: Have to post this. Bellajourney and I have been working....

Still a work in progress for that stuff, berardmr. :) It's all about the layout, today.


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RE: Have to post this. Bellajourney and I have been working....

I like all the clever openings for display. One thing I'd work on some more is the back of the peninsula. That corner door look seems 70s to me. Cabinets all along the back will give you hiding places for things you don't want in your glass shelves, like small appliances.


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RE: Have to post this. Bellajourney and I have been working....

Ok, just one consideration with this layout... if the dishwasher was beside the fridge instead of where it is now then you could scrape in trash (assuming that is a trash pullout between the dishwasher and sink), move to sink for rinse, and then deposit in dishwasher. I know some people do not rinse at all but sometimes it is needed and it would give more maneuvering room when both the trash and dishwasher are open. Plus, the drain hookup for the dishwasher would not have to span so long.


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RE: Have to post this. Bellajourney and I have been working....

Yup. Work in progress for those things. I have a plan for the back of the peninsula. You want a 70s look? You should see that room the way it is now!


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RE: Have to post this. Bellajourney and I have been working....

The dishwasher is to the left of the sink and is 18" wide. (Duck and cover) Yes, I know, resale...deal breaker... this is our forever home and an 18" works for me. There is trash under the sink and a trash, recycling pullout in the peninsula which you can't see yet because we're still working on it. Geez.

Okay. Sink wall L to R: 24" freezer drawers, 18" DW, 30" sink base, 24" drawer base, 3" fill pull-out. Frigidaire All-fridge, 4" really tall pullout.

Dishes and glasses in glass front uppers. Platter storage directly over fridge and then vintage radio and wooden bowls in open cab over that.

U from left of stove: 24" with drawers or pull out pan thing. Stove. 9" open for pizza stones, racks, etc. Corner super susan pulled forward 6" to make the bottom of the U 30" deep. There will be a 36" wide drawer base with full depth drawers. Uppers next to stove are 21", corner open cab for cookbooks, display. 2-30" uppers, IF they are glass front, it won't be clear glass, more opaque. those are for food storage with overflow pantry in basement. Peninsula: 18" prep sink, 36" drawer base with toe kick, 12" trash/recycling pullout that pulls both ways, 15" drop leaf.

The 70's cab in the corner on the outside of the peninsula will be our liquor cabinet/bar glasses storage. I guess better than posting a pic is explaining what's IN the pic. Sorry. Oh and all the aisles/clearances are regulation or slightly better.


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RE: Have to post this. Bellajourney and I have been working....

Also, the decorative hood would be nice without the cabinet above. I like the row of glass cabinets along the back wall but the open shelves in the corner are a bit odd, I have seen it done in a few kitchens but it always looks unfinished to me. What about leaving the corner empty so that the range wall can be a focal point and the back row of cabinets become similar to a big hutch, maybe with brackets to the counter. Do you still have the red hutch in this plan?


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RE: Have to post this. Bellajourney and I have been working....

Nope. The red hutch is gone. That's what was eating up all my working counter space. I was going to put my cookbooks in the corner space. Brackets are on the option table.


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RE: Have to post this. Bellajourney and I have been working....

Ok, I thought that the freezer drawer was the dishwasher, makes more sense... and I was not saying your trash should be there just looked like the freezer was the dishwasher and the paneled area was the trash (my trash is in the laundry room off of the kitchen so no trash at all around which some would hate but works for me). Anyways, lovely rendering. Don't know if it is possible but if items could be added to the shelves then you may be able to get a better idea of how many open shelves and glass cabinets you may want.


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RE: Have to post this. Bellajourney and I have been working....

We'll definitely be doing that down the road a bit!


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RE: Have to post this. Bellajourney and I have been working....

I like it! All the glass uppers and open storage look great...and those little shelves on each side of the range (under the uppers) are perfect. The range looks amazing in that space, BTW.

If the doors on the peninsula look out of place, I'd just put faux doors across the entire peninsula. Then it would look like it's all storage, even if it's not. Just an idea :)


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RE: Have to post this. Bellajourney and I have been working....

Full disclosure: I don't know much about good kitchen layout. I still have three blind cabinets, so my opinion is suspect. :)

Is the squarish shape on the peninsula a prep sink? Even if it is, it seems your stove is far from a source of water, both prep and cleanup. If you have a big pot of pasta to drain, you have to walk it across open space that is also a traffic corridor.


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RE: Have to post this. Bellajourney and I have been working....

I know you probably don't want to hear this and the layout may work just fine for you, but it's an unworkable layout in my personal experience.

I just tore out and remodeled my entire kitchen because sink and range were separated by just such a traffic path as yours. I was so tired of rushing a busy dinner and trying to get a pot of boiling pasta to the sink to drain, while DH at that moment decided he needed coffee cream from the fridge, or a kid was cutting through the pathway, or dog laying in the aisle.

It's a GORGEOUSLY pretty design. I would just counsel you to think hard about how you and your family will really use the kitchen. Although it was personally the bane of my existence and I was never so happy as when the remodel gave me a more functional layout, it may be just fine for the way you cook -- in which case please ignore everything I just wrote. :)


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RE: Have to post this. Bellajourney and I have been working....

OH!! Deedles I just read the other thread about prep sinks where you said you ARE having one ... I misread above and thought from the intro where you said 'no room for prep sink' that meant you didn't want one.

If that shadow in the peninsula is a prep sink (and you can make it larger than that -- enough to drain a pot easily) then I think the layout is good. You could be comfortably ensconced in your U while family wreaks havoc in the aisle.


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RE: Have to post this. Bellajourney and I have been working....

Deedles, looks awesome! I think the open corner storage will be lovely. If it looks unfinished, adding a valance on to that matches what's over the sink would solve that.

I have never worked in a kitchen large enough for a prep sink. It does seem like it would be more convenient on the back wall vs the peninsula, but that huge counter area is great and may be what you need. Only you can answer that. Have you mocked up the 180 degree turn and walk to the prep sink vs 90 degree turn if on the back wall? I know each decision comes with trade offs, the current place might well be your personal ideal.

How exciting to have an almost final plan! I'm in the same place, but in a holding pattern waiting for revised estimates before I can finalize the layout.


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RE: Have to post this. Bellajourney and I have been working....

I'd like to hear what your plans are for the back of the peninsula. It was suggested to me (as someone mentioned) to put the fake doors on the back side all across. I want an opening in the corner like you have drawn but I don't want it to be the only door. I'd love to hear what your plan is.


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RE: Have to post this. Bellajourney and I have been working....

Doesn't it help to see it like this! Great.
What program does she use? I'd love to get one but can't decide which.

Idea: I don't see how to make it work, but FWIW

One thing I really wish I had in my kitchen is a lower countertop for baking. I can use the table, but it is out of the way and I just don't.

Would it be possible to make the drop leaf table height? Then it could be used with a chair height stool as a work or sitting area, and it would also be a possible place to roll out cookies, knead dough, or assemble a pizza.

Might look funny, though. Anyway, just an idea.


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RE: Have to post this. Bellajourney and I have been working....

It think overall it does look very good, but could I make one suggestion? I recommend doing one of the following:

  1. Move the range to the base of the "U"...

    • So you have more work room around the range - right now you're very short of workspace on the left
    • To bring the Cooking Zone closer to the prep sink and the most useful prep part of the Prep Zone (near water). It doesn't have to be centered (although that's what I would prefer if space allows) - there should be enough workspace b/w the sink and range for a decent Prep Zone.
  2. Move that prep sink into the base of the "U". Right now, it's pretty far away to be of much use from the Cooking Zone or to prep at the sink and then have to hike over to the range w/the just-prepped food (e.g., just washed veggies, just filled pot, etc.)

    Moving the prep sink will also free up the peninsula so you will have that nice expanse of uninterrupted workspace for the larger projects (cooking/baking/etc.)

    Finally, it will move the prep sink out of the faces of those sitting at the peninsula so they don't get splashed. One of the reasons I used a corner prep sink in my kitchen was to increase the amount of space b/w the sink and someone sitting at the peninsula. It added several crucial inches! I'm not saying you should do a corner prep sink...in fact, I would not if you have room for a "straight" sink base (and you do inside the "U") b/c corner sinks do have some issues (e.g., set an inch or two further back, only one person can work at it at a time, smaller sinks fit in corner sink bases).

Just suggestions...take or leave as you prefer. Good luck!


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RE: Have to post this. Bellajourney and I have been working....

Lavender: The back of the peninsula will be finished nicely when it all comes about. I think the stove does look great in there!
Linelle: Actually the pic makes it look bigger in there than it is... there is 51" across the U from the sink to the stove. It's just a step and a turn away from the prep sink and a couple steps from the big sink, really.

Taggie: lol, yes that's the prep sink over there and yes, I WILL be ensconced (finally) outside of the traffic pattern! (I may put police crime scene tape across the opening to that U on holidays, :)

Williamsem: I do like the prep sink on the outside of the U for a couple reasons; it faces where DH will be sitting most of the time, so we can visit while I get supper ready, it is accessible by 2 people inside the U, on the occasional times when another person joins me in cooking... like last T-day. The outside doors on the peninsula is the bar cabinet. I figure someone can stand at that spot between the prep sink and wall and make drinks AND have use of the prep sink for water if need be.
Also, if I put in at the base of the U, it would cut into my 36" wide, 30" deep drawer base that I desperately need for storage.
Cathy: There is another door down by the end of the peninsula as the trash/recycling push-pull out will be there. And in the center of the peninsula, I'm thinking about a decorative wood panel along the lines of this:

Photobucket

Bellsmom: I asked her what program she is using but she's off doing things today so I'm not sure. I'll be you could send her a note to her email if you wanted and she'd tell you. Whatever it is, I'm impressed.

I don't really bake all that much and the drop leaf was for a place for me to sit and/or to have a little bit more counterspace if I need it. I have a vintage stepstool that I'm going to keep there for sitting and for reaching the upper cabinets!

Buehl: Thank you for your time in considering this layout... I've read so many posts where you gave such great advice and help. The stove has been tried at the bottom of the U. I don't have enough width in that room to pull it off without a serious loss of storage space. Truly, it's been tried to death. Also, as I noted above, it isn't a hike to the stove from the prep sink, it's a step and a turn and nobody will be sitting at the peninula as I haven't got room for an overhang other than at the drop leaf end. I did fool around with a corner sink and have finally hit upon putting it where it is. I feel that for how I cook and what is need in base cabs, it'll be perfect right there. But thank you!


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RE: Have to post this. Bellajourney and I have been working....

Deedles: I like the layout! However, I suspect you already knew that..... ;-)

I also like the aesthetics of the space. Very nice.


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RE: Have to post this. Bellajourney and I have been working....

Deedles, I think it looks wonderful! How fabulous that you've been able to get such a great preview of your kitchen. Bella has done a great job!

I love all the open shelving and all the glass doors. There are so many beautiful choices for glass. I had a kitchen ages ago that had glass doors in all the uppers. I don't know what kind of glass it was (did I say a long time ago?), but it just enough of a pattern in it that I got the lovely look of glass without having to keep things spotless in the cabinets.

Your Chambers and sink look so good together! Are you still planning on framing decorative tiles for the BS? I am really looking forward to seeing this all come together. :)


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RE: Have to post this. Bellajourney and I have been working....

Angie: I did have a sneaky feeling that you'd approve...

Pooh: I'm glad you like it! She really has done a great job and isn't done yet, I fear (for her, lol). I love the glass doors, too. The only thing I worry about is keeping the light off things that I store in glass jars. I tend to buy in bulk... so those in the U might lose the glass but we'll see. They do look nice together, don't they. No clue on backsplash. Might be just painted wood because as we experiment with things, we're finding that it's really hard to have the stove and sink 'play nicely' if we add in other elements, such as the paper, tile, etc.

But.
So far, so good!


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RE: Have to post this. Bellajourney and I have been working....

Here is another view of just the 140" long sink/fridge wall

Photobucket

And the U:

Photobucket

There IS 51" across the legs of the U and my Chambers doesn't stick out like the one in the program... only the doors and handles do, so right in front of the stove to the other side is 45". I've taped it out as suggested and my rear end can still fit if I'm standing in front of the oven door when it's open (door sticks out 17" when open all the way). This also shows the uppers with solid doors instead of glass.


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RE: Have to post this. Bellajourney and I have been working....

Glad the layout is working for you! As far as those open shelves, they will look great.

Not sure if you like this idea or even have already thought about it and nixed it, but I love the glass panels on the ends of my glass cabinets. The ones next to the sink will just "light up" with natural light. It's just a thought.


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RE: Have to post this. Bellajourney and I have been working....

Actually, Bee we were talking about exactly your cabs with the glass a little bit back, but she was having trouble making the program take the glass on the sides without adding 'doors'. Your glass is just in where the wood side panel is, right? You don't have a door on the end, do you? The way it was rendering it looked kind of bulky and distracting, so we took it out... but for sure the glass is way up on things I'd like to have.. Anything to open up that sink wall and help offset the lack of natural light in that kitchen. It does look so nice in your kitchen...

Oh, and do you have glass shelves? That might make me nervous as my everyday plate and bowls, etc will be in those cabs,. Do you think wood shelves would look wrong with the glass ends?


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RE: Have to post this. Bellajourney and I have been working....

ok, a thought. On the end of the peninsula, instead of cabinets facing what may be an eating area, install an undercounter refrigerator drawer unit so that everyone can get their own stuff, yogurts, drinks, extra produce, and not disburb the cooking area. That will help immeasurably in making the traffic pattern better. Keeps traffic out of the cooks' way. Pricey, but so worth it.


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RE: Have to post this. Bellajourney and I have been working....

Love the layout, I could totally work there. Bella's skills are phenomenal.
I do have a couple of thoughts, not layout specifically and they may already be things that you have thought of:

I like the niche over the sink, but do you have ample over the sink lighting? Re the niche over the fridge, is there enough height there for your radio?

Does your Chambers model have the chrome shelf on the top of the backsplash? If yes, are you leaving enough height before your hood starts for whatever you will place there? I would put my pepper grinder, and while mine is a shorty I know lots of people's are quite tall.

Arches v squares: Love the arches, but I am not sure the mix of arches and squares feels cohesive to me. I see that the doorway between the kitchen and the entryway is arched, and then the doorway to the room beyond the step down sunroom is arched, is there an arch echoed in the entry to the sunroom? Should there be? Cabinetry-wise the only arch is in the niche over the refrigerator, the over the sink valance doesn't feel like an arch to me. Anyway I feel like maybe all doorways should be arches and all cabinetry should be squared. Or if you want more arches, I wonder if it should be carried into the top glass doors or somewhere else?

Finally, I know the panels for the back of the island were just a thought, but the one you posted felt kind of gothic to me, plus they would be very irksome to dust(LOL).

I think it looks awesome and these are just some random thoughts. Great job.


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RE: Have to post this. Bellajourney and I have been working....

It seems like it would be heaven to be inside the U cooking away!

I would LOVE to have my cookbooks on those open shelves! Was trying to do something similiar, but lost out to DH who isn't quite as attached to cookbooks as I am!

Good luck!


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RE: Have to post this. Bellajourney and I have been working....

I have a question about what is opposite the peninsula. It appears to be a narrow walkway with a knee wall separating it from something. One thought that occurs to me is to angle the peninsula slightly into that walkway to make the area in the U slightly larger. Of course that would be stealing a little space from the "something" opposite the knee wall, so it may not be feasible.


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RE: Have to post this. Bellajourney and I have been working....

sorry, I've been distracted.

They are not doors on the ends, but they sort of are...meaning they are end panels that are glass, faux doors, I guess you could say.

I do not have glass shelves. Just went with painted shelves. The light from the sides really keeps them bright

Let me know if you need a picture.


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RE: Have to post this. Bellajourney and I have been working....

Westsider: thanks for your thought on the fridge. We did debate this but it was voted down by the dire need for storage in this little 1200 sq ft. house. That cabinet is the 'bar' cabinet for bottle and glasses. 98% of the time it'll be just me and DH, so traffic won't be a big issue. I can tell you though, that when we do have people over, there will be police tape across the U! I've had it with trying to cook in a sea of bodies... that's why I'm so excited to have my little 'cockpit' in that U... and the fridge is just a step away for me from inside there.
Localeater: There will be room for my radio, wherever I have to put the shelf. And yes, there will be lighting galore.. .we just haven't gotten to that point in the program yet, still tinkering with cab finishes and Bella is working hard to make the wood ceiling come out properly. The hood placement will leave about 14" from the top of the range back. That's what I have now in my current house and it works out just fine. That other arch in the later pic doesn't belong there. It's a freak arch! And IRL, the arches are not at all that rounded... much more of a slight 'curve' at the top than an arch. And the entry to the step down will be like 13' wide, so we are having a structural exposed beam with posts there. As far as the cabinet arch... I like it but, of course it's on the table. If I do have the few arches in the cabs, I'd make sure they matched closely the doorway arch. Don't tell me anything bad about my panels (bottom lip sticking out, stomping foot)! J/K but I do love them laser cut panels. Maybe a different design? They offer about 40 of them plus custom.

Partyof7: you lost out on your cookbook shelves? The nerve. I love having them at hand and yes, I really am looking forward to whirling around in there (hopefully by this time next year?)

bob cville: Tried and discarded due to space issues. But thanks for taking the time to ponder.

Here is the overhead layout, you can see it's a pretty tight spot:

Photobucket


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RE: Have to post this. Bellajourney and I have been working....

Bee: actually a pic of the end of your cabs would be great. Thank you.

We've made good progress since the last pics... I'll post another soon. That Bella is a whiz!


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RE: Have to post this. Bellajourney and I have been working....

Localeater: Now you've got me staring at the arch in the cab and I'm starting to see what you mean....


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RE: Have to post this. Bellajourney and I have been working....

This is a close-up of the side panel.

Photobucket

this one shows you the door opening

Photobucket

Here is a shot of the side of the cabinet
Photobucket

hope this helps


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RE: Have to post this. Bellajourney and I have been working....

Wow, if I could move my living room door a few feet I could have the same layout! Too bad the shared wall isn't shared for the whole length. My house is also abou t1200 sf, so I completely understand those trade offs for space!

Looking forward to the next round of pics, seems like you're just about done with the layout, how exciting!


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RE: Have to post this. Bellajourney and I have been working....

Deedles-
Thought I commented but didn't see a post so must have been a figment.
Wow! Looks great!
I love that sink you plan to install!

I love bees idea for those lovely glass cabinets.

I am not sure about the prep sink placement but not sure what to recommend as like williamsem, I also never had a kitchen large enough.


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RE: Have to post this. Bellajourney and I have been working....

thank you, Bee. That helps me visualize those cabs now.

Williamsem: yes, it truly is "if I do this, I can't have this". I had to finally give up on a cab for the kitchenaid... can't afford the space! Not like that's a big sacrifice in the big scheme of things... but you know...
A2: Thanks! I did have the prep sink down towards the end of the peninsula but Bella and I both thought that it was more accessible to more area in this spot. Now, theoretically, THREE people could access it if need be...one @ the peninsula, one @ the deep counter at the bottom and another standing on the other side of the peninsula. But that would only be 5% of the time. The rest of the time it's me and DH so maybe I should move it back and have more counter space?


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RE: Have to post this. Bellajourney and I have been working....

Deedles, I really like the placement of your prep sink. I think it gives you two great areas to prep next to it. I bet you'll end up prepping on the peninsula most of the time and the placement of the sink gives you a nice big area. I like it.

I've gotta agree with the visual of the arch over the fridge not really working. I'd square it off so it fits with the rest of the cabinets.

Your kitchen is going to be set up a lot like mine. I have a major traffic pattern through mine too. The fridge is in the traffic pattern, while my work area is on the other side of the kitchen. My prep sink makes a nice triangle between the fridge and the microwave and I love it. I find traffic tends to stay completely out of my way while I'm cooking and they stay in that zone between the prep sink, fridge and microwave. With what you've described, and from what I see of your space, I think you'll spend most of your time in the u of your kitchen while traffic stays outside. I really like that part of your plan.

This is going to be a great kitchen to work in.


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RE: Have to post this. Bellajourney and I have been working....

Thanks Pooh! I do like the sink where it is now.. I think I will be on the peninsula most often and I will have, what 63" of uninterrupted counter, with the drop leaf in the 'up' position? I basically now work in the same 36" to the left of the sink with overflowing crap on either side of me as the sink fills up. I'm so sick of that and I cannot WAIT to try out a really well-planned kitchen!

If anyone ventures into that U that doesn't belong there... I tell you, it'll only be once >=/.

I'll ask Bella to take the arch out. I think you guys are correct about it looking OOP. Thank you.


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RE: Have to post this. Bellajourney and I have been working....

Uh Oh. Feeling guilty that you are losing your arch. I only mentioned it because my cabinet maker was over that day, and in talking to me about the two remaining pieces, one of which had an arched bracket, he questioned it. I lost mine too. :( But he was right.

What are you thinking about for a countertop material?


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RE: Have to post this. Bellajourney and I have been working....

I see you mentioned loosing a cabinet for the kitchen aid mixer. How about putting it I. An appliance garage in the corner. Always plugged in and ready to pull out. I have mine like that and it works really well for me. I like that it isn't in the open as it doesn't get dusty like everything else seem to get in my house within just a day.


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RE: Have to post this. Bellajourney and I have been working....

Glad everyone is enjoying the pictures, and thank you for the kind words! I have been having So much fun working with deedles on her beautiful kitchen! :)

deedles - I sent you a new image with a squared off cabinet above the fridge (I do like it better - what a great suggestion!) but the email got bounced back saying that your account was over its limit. (I'm probably partially to blame for that! Sorry!) Just wanted to let you know! :)


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RE: Have to post this. Bellajourney and I have been working....

Bella, you deserve all the praise you've received and more! You've done an amazing job. It's very cool to follow along and see the progress.


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RE: Have to post this. Bellajourney and I have been working....

Localeater: don't feel bad! I think it's a good call.
Leaning towards solid surface. Staron has some interesting stuff but I don't know much about them. I'd like some wood, maybe a butcher block inset on the peninsula for chopping. It's all on the table at this point. Tend to not care for granite just because of the noise, breakage of dropped things factor. Plus, if I can't have sixtyohno's gorgeous granite then I don't want any :). And I can't as it clashes with the sink.
Lyfia: The only spot I'd have for an appliance garage is over in the corner by the stove.. but, the uppers on the stove wall are 12" deep vs 15" for the others around the corner. Not sure how that would work. I hear you on the dust, though.

Bella: sent you an email, I cleared out a bunch of junk so there is space now. Can't wait to see the squared off cab, too.


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RE: Have to post this. Bellajourney and I have been working....

Have you looked into doing the drop leaf countertop with Staron? One of my early design ideas had a hinged countertop section and finding a material that could do it became a factor. Of course if you do that end of the island in wood countertops it would be easy.


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RE: Have to post this. Bellajourney and I have been working....

Nope. Haven't looked into it other than a quick 'corian drop leaf' search and I did find one picture of it having been done. Wasn't a very big leaf, though. Might have to be wood on the peninsula.

Unless someone reads this that has a drop leaf out of solid surface stuff....


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