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California Code for space btwn countertop & cabinet? Need help!

Michelle Dunphy
11 years ago

We are doing our first ever remodel (kitchen) and having major issues. One of the upper cabinets was installed today and it was not the same size as our previous ones. They are 36" so they are currently 60" from the floor and the contractor is telling us that the spacing is 21" with granite because "that meets california code which is 20-24". Our previous cabinets appear to have been 42" (even though he's saying they were 39", but that seems wrong based on old holes & paint lines).
Is there really such a code? All my research is indicating that standard top cabinet should be 54" from floor and standard spacing is 18". As of right now, as an average woman of 5'5", I can't even use my upper cabinets! My husband is 6'2" and he feels uncomfortable w/ the height.

We're to have a talk in the morning with him. He expressed over text message though that this was "his bid". As I said, we're new to this and well, don't have any parental units we can go talk to about this. Could really use some advice before our "talk". We did not get copies of the plans with our contract so I cannot tell you if it said 36" in them. Even so, isn't it a reasonable expectation that all cabinet space should be usable?

We didn't just pick this guy off the street. He did a friend's kitchen and did a great job. He seems to have a good body of work, but man. I just am so worried that we're going to get screwed here. :( Our kitchen is VERY small. We need all the usable cabinet space we can get. It's bad enough that he didn't include a silverware width sized drawer in the design, but completely unusable upper cabinets? :( Well, this pregnant lady is freaking out.

Thank you so much in advance for any help you can provide.

Comments (18)

  • suzanne_sl
    11 years ago

    There may be a code concerning the distance between the cooktop/stove and the upper cabinet, but 20-24" between your counter and the uppers is ridiculous. I might buy that number for over the stove. 18" is a standard measurement for the distance over the counters, but it's not hard and fast. With 36" uppers, they need to be set down to give you that 18" (ours are closer to 17"). Honestly, nobody does 20-24" for the exact reason you cite - they're not useable if you can't reach them.

    If the GC keeps insisting that the taller number is code, you just keep saying stuff like, "Those cabinets are so high, I can't even use them. It's hard to believe that high would be code. Could you show me where it says that?" You could even volunteer to call your Planning Dept. and ask the question. Sounding like a broken record is very useful in this case. Don't get angry, just insist that he either back up his assertion or move the cabinets down to an 18" gap. Remember, he isn't doing you a favor, he's your employee completing a job to your satisfaction. Moving the cabinets down to 18" is not that big of a deal and he just needs to do it.

    P.S. Regardless, you're going to need to plan to have a step stool vs. dragging over a chair to reach the top couple of shelves.

  • kailuamom
    11 years ago

    i was just going to say the same thing....he must be talking about over the cooktop.

    In my home, built in 2000 in CA, the low point in the cabinets (light valance), its 18.5". we have a vent under cabinet doors, so its hidden, and looks like its flush with the other cabinets over the cooktop. My coffee pot and mixer have about an inch to spare so I like this distance and will do it again on the house we are remodeling.

    you need to plan that you cant reach the top shelf. you can use the space, but need a stool to each it.

  • Bunny
    11 years ago

    I'm in Calif. and he's pulling that one out of a dark recess. What would be the point? What about appliance garages that are basically cabinets sitting on top of the counter (zero clearance), usually made of granite?

  • cookncarpenter
    11 years ago

    Been a licensed CA contractor for over 30 years, and I've never heard of such a code. I'm not saying one doesn't exist, maybe it's a regional thing? Next to range or cook top is usually specific to the appliance mfg. Uppers at 18" above counter is pretty standard, unless an owner or designer dictates otherwise. 60" off floor will be more like 23"-24" above your base cabinets, not 21". Maybe ask to see the code, or ask your city building inspector.
    ...very odd that you do not have copies of your plans

  • badgergal
    11 years ago

    Did he make your friend's cabinets with 21 inches of space? If he did then he just doesn't know what he's doing. If he didn't, he's just giving you some bs so he doesn't have to change cabinets that he hung incorrectly.
    Don't let him intimidate you. That is too much space between counter top and cabinets. Did your previous cabinets have crown molding. They could have been 39 inches with 3 inches of crown making them a total of 42 inches. They still should have been about 18 inches above the countertop.

  • gwlolo
    11 years ago

    Just call your city planning department. It is a free call. There is usually a code for distance between cooktop and the cabinet above (this is usually a fire safety type code. I do not have cabinets over my stove and my hood is 30 inches from cooktop. The uppers are 18 inches from the countertop. I am in bay area and I just passed inspection.

  • salishsong
    11 years ago

    The space between counter and cabinets is custom, not code, except around the stovetop as others have mentioned (which is determined by the stove manufacturer's specifications). 18" is considered standard now, but it used to be 15" or so. This changed as appliances populated that space; if you keep a tall appliance like a stand mixer on the counter, a taller space is necessary. I don't, and when we built our kitchen recently, I chose 16" for easier upper cabinet access (I'm 5'1"). I do keep a toaster oven on the countertop, and 16" gives plenty of room for both the oven and air space above.
    Maybe your GC is feeling uncomfortable with how much shorter your new upper cabinets are than your old ones, and is trying to place them higher to deemphasize that. But the 36" was your choice (we did 39" instead of 42" to save money), so maybe you could reassure him about that so he'll be more at ease about lowering them. (My guess is that his contract did specify that the uppers would be 36", but probably didn't say how high the space above the counter would be.)
    Also, it sounds like with the cabinets hung lower, there might just be enough space that you could come back later and add a row of cube-like uppers above the 36" (I love that look, especially when they are lighted glass-front cabinets).
    He should definitely not try to charge you extra for rehanging the uppers, though, as 21" is not standard (unless, surprisingly, it's specified as such in your contract).

  • go_figure01
    11 years ago

    Hi hypersparkle,
    I would do as GWlolo suggested. Call your planning department. Then have the conversation w/your GC.

    You have to be in control so that you do not get taken advantage of, and believe me, I am speaking from first hand experience. I have been taken DEEP, at a very high cost - because I believed and wanted to believe in my GC. I was completely taken advantage of.

    So once you have the information from the building dept, I would also say at that time, "before we go any further, I need a hard copy of all plans so we can be sure we are on the same page." You NEED to have EVERYTHING in writing!!!

    Good luck.

  • breezygirl
    11 years ago

    Good on ya, Hypersparkle! Recite Blfenton's mantra to yourself:

    My money
    My reno
    MY WAY!

  • selphydeg
    11 years ago

    I live in CA and in our new kitchen the space between countertop and upper is 18". I picked the standard distance and my contractor didn't say anything. The old kitchen had 16" space between the counter and upper and it was built in 2000. I think they would have adhere to the code in 2000 if there is one.

  • suzanne_sl
    11 years ago

    Really?! He's going to swap out the 36" for the 42"? I didn't even think that was on the table, so I didn't even suggest it. Glad to hear it, because you'll be much happier. The top shelves are handy for stuff like the angel cake pan and Christmas cookie plates and other holiday items that get used once a year.

  • Michelle Dunphy
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    @Suzanne - Yup! He already did it actually and some are installed. He wasn't happy, but he did it. We love the top shelves. As avid cooks with a small kitchen, there is always a need for space. We really did not want to lose 6 inches.

  • Claire Nelson
    8 years ago

    Thank you ALL so much for this discussion! I am in the same boat as the first person who wrote in this story! The way the new cabinets are currently (they aren't finished yet), they are 24" off the counter and the "manager" told me that "23" is the Code" between the counter top and bottom of cabinet. There's no way I could reach the SECOND shelf (never mind the 3rd shelf!) without a step stool. I will present all this to the contractor manager on Monday! Many thanks!

  • Tmnca
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Sounds like you already got your answer, but we just designed our kitchen in CA and Ikea kitchen designer had minimums for walkways, but said 18" for countertop to cabinet bottom - that does include trim. However city planning office approved our floor plan with no query about this dimension - I'm sure it is not code requirement other than above a range, where we will have a chimney hood. Our uppers will be 40" and our ceilings are only 96". I want the cabinets at minimum height because I am short, and want trim scribed to ceiling to cover the gap at the top.


    Edited to add - our plans were approved on paper, have not had inspections done yet. I will ask the inspector when he comes for the rough-in to confirm any cabinet-related code issues.

  • Claire Nelson
    8 years ago

    Thanks for that! I know the other comments were 4 years old. I'm short, too, and these tall cabinets would never work. I think the manager told me "the Code" said 24" so they wouldn't have to fix them! Appreciate the information!

  • yeh_yeh
    8 years ago

    I just remodeled my kitchen and city already did the final inspection and approved. I live in CA and my city does not have a requirement between the countertop and bottom of cabinet, though 18" is recommended as standard but again, not a requirement, just a recommendation. I had mine with 18". Good luck!

  • HU-716270178
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Sounds like someone ordered the wrong size cabinets and is making do. 18" is accepted distance; nothing in code book about it. You can look for yourself anytime at https://codes.iccsafe.org/content/CRC2019P2. Note - Los Angeles has its own code book; a bit different than state of CA.

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