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Cracked Granite. They say normal. I say BS! What do you say??

Posted by Duckspanked (My Page) on
Fri, Nov 18, 11 at 23:42

Installed by a granite company in Woodinville, Washington. This company also sells very expensive CAD Image software to fabricators.

The crack was visible the day after Install.

Take a look and tell me what you think. In the pictures you will see there is a visible split/gap. Meaning you can stick your finger nail in the crack and feel a crack. This is not a mark in the stone that is visible below the surface it is a crack. I can be felt at the edge and can be felt below just prior to mess bottom this is glued on that covers the crack.


They say it is normal and it is part of the beauty of the stone. I say BS.


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Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Cracked Granite. They say normal. I say BS! What do you say??

With the light in your picture, it's difficult to determine if it's a natural fissure or a crack. Either way, it's not a big deal to repair. A bit of epoxy and some finish sanding and all will be well.


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RE: Cracked Granite. They say normal. I say BS! What do you say??

Thanks for the quick reply.

I would hope that the epoxy will hide the crack so it is not visible. As $8000.00 for a ugly split in the counter is not what I paid for.

If it can be made to look like the surrounding counters and not look like a ugly crack with a gel coating, I can live with that. I do not see how since the crack runs through several different paterns on the stone starting from the edge of the counter and leading to the window were it stops.

They installed ICE Color inhancer on the stone which appears to have darkened the stone within the crack.

I have seen some ugly chips filled that look ok after a repair. I hope it is easy and it looks like new when done.

Wife is in tears over this.


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RE: Cracked Granite. They say normal. I say BS! What do you say??

Wow that looks like a crack, I would be furious. $8,000! wow! you should be happy not see a crack.


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RE: Cracked Granite. They say normal. I say BS! What do you say??

I think it looks like a crack too.


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RE: Cracked Granite. They say normal. I say BS! What do you say??

In my opinion, your slab is broken, and should be replaced. At $8000.00, you should not have to accept that. Even if it is a natural "fissure" it shouldn't be part of your countertop....


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RE: Cracked Granite. They say normal. I say BS! What do you say??

That beautiful slab has to be replaced. $8K is too much $ for you to be dealing with epoxy and fixing cracks. I'm sorry that you have to deal with this.


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RE: Cracked Granite. They say normal. I say BS! What do you say??

I had a crack too and they came back and fixed it the very next day. It looks just like the rest of the granite now- I was skeptical at first when they said it could be repaired. Evidently cracks do happen even before you first see your slab and are refinished. If they replace it will they be replacing the entire counter top? Would they have to match stone elsewhere in the kitchen? If so the stone may not come from the same slab which would cause another set of problems. They should not give you a hard time about it but should care about their reputation and do what is right by you as soon as possible! Hope everything works out to your satisfaction.


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RE: Cracked Granite. They say normal. I say BS! What do you say??

green is very knowledgable - it seems like it is worth trying to fix. you could define the agreement such that if they cannot fix to your satisfaction then they replace the stone. remember there is risk to your cabs if they have to pull it all out.


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RE: Cracked Granite. They say normal. I say BS! What do you say??

Normal? Maybe. Acceptable? NO. I would insist it be repaired perfectly to my satisfaction or replaced (perfectly and to my satisfaction).

Good luck!


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RE: Cracked Granite. They say normal. I say BS! What do you say??

I'd press them about structural issues more than anything. Even if epoxied, is the rock sound? You don't want your counter to pull a Tower of Pisa on you 6 months after the installers' warranty has expired ...


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RE: Cracked Granite. They say normal. I say BS! What do you say??

Was this new granite on old cabinets? Or new granite on new cabinets? The reason I ask is that granite doesn't "just crack" without reason. Some colors are fragile, and have lots of fissures and are a bear to handle, but once in place are fine. Some have some fissures and if stressed at the wrong point like inconsistent support from unlevel cabinets, they can can crack. It's rare to have a granite crack without there being a previous fissue in place to create a weak point for the stresses to act on. Yeah, you can drop a solid piece of granite and it will crack, but outside of that, there are few things that you can do to most granites that will cause them to break in half. Thermal shock from heat is one such thing, and it's something you need to be aware of.

And that's why I say that your case looks like a fissure than someone didn't support properly during the install, and it went ahead and cracked. If there is a problem with older cabinet not being level, or no heat shield installed around a cooktop, then that is an issue for a cabinet maker to deal with before the granite is installed and it will come back around and bite you again if it's not addressed. If the cabinets are level and offer good support, including ledgers at the rear of corner cabinets and DWs, then the slab was just stressed during transport and install. Repairing it in place is a perfectly acceptable solution. A color matching epoxy repair will be invisible if the skill of the fabricator is good. And, the actual bonding ability of the epoxy is stronger than the stone itself. If you were to take a properly repaired stone slab and stress it, it would crack elsewhere before it would crack at the repair.


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RE: Cracked Granite. They say normal. I say BS! What do you say??

I would not accept that in my counter especially after paying all of that money. It needs to be fixed or replaced.


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RE: Cracked Granite. They say normal. I say BS! What do you say??

definitely should be taken care of no matter what! if your not happy it should be replaced...that is way to much money to not be 100% satisfied. I know our granite fab. said he has had replacements occur..but not very often.


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RE: Cracked Granite. They say normal. I say BS! What do you say??

Before you replace (which they should) check for the support underneath. Cabinets, plywood underlayment, etc.


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RE: Cracked Granite. They say normal. I say BS! What do you say??

No reputable installer should be OK with that crack. I would be BS.


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RE: Cracked Granite. They say normal. I say BS! What do you say??

This is total BullScrap! - that is not part of the charm. This does not mean you have faulty install though !

DOes that stone have a layer of mesh and epoxy on the underside ???

There is an install seam approx. 10-12" to the right of that crack. If the cabinets or structure were/are not stable the tops would most likely have broken there first.

What's directly underneath that crack ???

Looks to me like someone sat or stood on that top.


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RE: Cracked Granite. They say normal. I say BS! What do you say??

Not sure why that happened but am pretty sure you need to have that replaced. While a hairline crack can be repaired in some cases the crack that you have is very wide. It is an issue to match the color of the stone. White being the hardest to match. I dont see that being able to blend in to rest of the surface. They could try to repair it but you should have in writing that it will be repalced if you arent happy with the repair. What stone is that-hard to tell from the pic.
Stu Rosen
www.mbstonecare.com
www,stoneshine.com


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RE: Cracked Granite. They say normal. I say BS! What do you say??

I am waiting for the installer to come out to assess the countertops and I'll have an update on how they plan to handle the crack in the stone, or as they say "natural beauty". This is taking place tomorrow.


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RE: Cracked Granite. They say normal. I say BS! What do you say??

I am not sure how to respond back to each of you individually, this site is different than others I have used. However, to respond to comments and to answer most of your questions see below...

a. Type of granite is Momsaba

b. The kitchen cabinets are brand new. Both the floor and cabinets are level.

c. I do not have the sink hooked up yet or an oven that has been installed, so my wife and I are not using the kitchen yet...meaning we are not spending our "free time" hanging out in the kitchen...nor are we sitting or standing on our countertops. We noticed the crack about 12 hours after install when we had gone to our kitchen to get water out of the refrigerator. In pictures, prior to the slab being cut, we can now notice the "fissure" or "vein" or "deep crack" in the product. Now that it is installed, apparently the cutting, traveling, and installation process has caused the stone to break through the top coating and become visible and palpatable. This stone, sadly enough, is defective and unfortunately we are the current owners of this disappointment. Tomorrow the installers will come to assess the stone and hopefully I will be reporting that the installer is taking full responsiblity for the defective stone and a replacement is on it's way. TBD.

d. directly underneath the cabinet is a drawer that was removed to observe under the stone. You are looking at an opening of where a garbage bin will eventually go.

e. Yes, the stone does have a layer of mesh and epoxy on the underside.

Thanks for your comments and support. JT


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RE: Cracked Granite. They say normal. I say BS! What do you say??

Let us know what happened.


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RE: Cracked Granite. They say normal. I say BS! What do you say??

I wish kevin were around, he would chime in on this.

I say it is a crack! And if it were me they would be
installing a new slab or giving me a HUGE discount.

Good luck and sorry you are dealing with this. Let's
hope you have an honest and ethical installer
who will repair this or at least make this right with
you the buyer.
~bp


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RE: Cracked Granite. They say normal. I say BS! What do you say??

visible the day AFTER? I say it's a crack! Even if it is a fissure, it has no natural beauty and the counter-top should be replaced! Anyway to stop payment until you settle this?


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RE: Cracked Granite. They say normal. I say BS! What do you say??

What happened?


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RE: Cracked Granite. They say normal. I say BS! What do you say??

Duckspanked,
Would you email me? I am in Kirkland, and would like to know who your granite installer/fabricator was... (and how it all turns out--whether you are satisfied or not. I am gearing up for a few (bathroom) remodels).
Thanks!


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RE: Cracked Granite. They say normal. I say BS! What do you say??

Sorry for the delay in response. The company came out and made the repair. Although it looks better and does not have the rough surface anymore...the crack still runs through the granite. We received an email from our sales gal telling us it was nice to work with us and had attached the invoice of remaining balance owed. Due to the holidays we haven't responded back to her. We aren't too tickled about paying the remaining $3000 for a crack that was "repaired". Like I said, we haven't addressed the final payment with the company yet. Maybe by the end of the week...


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RE: Cracked Granite. They say normal. I say BS! What do you say??

Duckspanked, ask them this:

Do they remember that a satisfied customer tells 3 people, but a dissatisfied person tells 17?

And.... you're online with this.

It sounds like it gave on a weak spot after all the moving stress as you suggested. That said, where are similar lines?

I have to admit, it would drive me crazy forever and definitely tinge my happiness with my beautiful brand new kitchen.

Tell them you need it replaced. They promised to make it to your specs by taking your money and probably have a x # of years guarantee, right?

If you're not happy with the repair and the crack is still evident? Firmly (no stomping) put your foot down. I'm sure they need the $3K.


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RE: Cracked Granite. They say normal. I say BS! What do you say??

When my granite was moved from the shop to my kitchen, it was moved with this brace on.

That brace didn't get removed until the final fitting was checked, the adhesive was down and the back edge was placed. Considering the proximity of the crack to your sink cut-out, I would expect the same care to be taken with yours. For $8000, I would expect that the last 8" of the slab was actually connected to the main body.

I too wish Kevin was still around because he knows this stuff. From my much-less-informed view, it seems like they've repaired a major crack and it just isn't acceptable. Sorrowfully withholding the rest of the payment until they replace may be your best option.


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RE: Cracked Granite. They say normal. I say BS! What do you say??

If you're anything like me, everyday you will stare at that crack. Others will say " I don't even see it!" and then I would just stare at it every single day. If this had been some sort of bargain I would be inclined to live with it, but at 8k, I would withold payment. I would tell them you want the owner of the business to come to the house and look at it and I would almost be inclined to show them this thread.... This is just wrong.


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RE: Cracked Granite. They say normal. I say BS! What do you say??

The first thing to understand is that a fissure that has had an epoxy repair will be be stronger than the rest of the granite. It won't crack there again. The only issue is that there are some who can do this repair in a more aesthetically pleasing manner than others. It's an artistic skill as well as a technical one. A properly repaired fissure will look like an interesting seam in the granite, but be smooth to the touch and not look like a "crack". Do you have pics of the repair?

A granite that is meshed and resined is a weak granite from the beginning, prone to cracking during fabrication and install. (It may be perfectly fine once installed with cabinets that fully support it.) Your fabricators should have explained the risks of choosing this type of stone to you while you were in the browsing stage. In the past, before these reinforcement methods were developed, a lot of gorgeous and pricy stone wouldn't make it out of the quarry. Technological advances have helped, but when you choose a fragile stone, you are still taking a risk that it won't be able to come through the process unscathed and may need repair. Although resining a slab strengthens it, it doesn't fully prevent it from cracking. It might not be possible to find another slab of the same type that will be fissure free and remain so under fabrication and install stresses. You may be faced with the devil you know, vs. the devil you don't in a new slab if you want that type of granite.


There's always the possibility of a different type of stone rather than this one if you do not want to risk a fissure opening up again.


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RE: Cracked Granite. They say normal. I say BS! What do you say??

It appears to be a crack. Is it along a thin vein? Is it cracked on the underside of the overhang?


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RE: Cracked Granite. They say normal. I say BS! What do you say??

ammoore, from the OP:

"It can be felt at the edge and can be felt below just prior to mess bottom this is glued on that covers the crack."

So, it goes all the way through.

Where is Kevin?


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RE: Cracked Granite. They say normal. I say BS! What do you say??

I wish I knew where Kevin was... He is the expert on GW.

Any more news on this?
Just curious and hoping all is going well.


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RE: Cracked Granite. They say normal. I say BS! What do you say??

Send a picture of the repair-while some cracks can be repaired to the point they become invisible the crack in your top was just too large imo to make disappear. It isnt your fault the granite cracked. While Green designs is right that your fabricator should have explained the nature of the stone that responsibility shouldnt be on you if the piece cracks.
That doesnt look like a fissure to me as from the pic it doesnt follow any natural line making the repair very difficult.
If you arent satisfied you dont have to accept that repair. Before you do anything speak to the fabricator and explain you cant live with this in your kitchen and you need this resolved. Consult with your lawyer and be firm with the fabricator-these things happen and the faabricator needs to make it right. See if you can find a slab that will match the rest of the kitchen. They should help you find something that you are happy with.
I think if you keep the cracked piece you will never be satisfied with it.
Stu Rosen
www.mbstonecare.com
www.stoneshine.com


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RE: Cracked Granite. They say normal. I say BS! What do you say??

Sure looks like a crack.

While it is a risk of almost any stone, the installer is the one at risk.
It is one of the reasons stone is (relatively) expensive.

Did the same company measure, cut, and install the stone?

It appears to be a relatively tight crack, meaning it was NOT cased by the support shifting.
When the support shifts the side of the crack normally move out of plane.


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RE: Cracked Granite. They say normal. I say BS! What do you say??

Two issues:
1. When the granite fabricator laid out the template onto the slab they should have NEVER included a section with that kind of an issue.

2. If the crack showed up the next day it was because the cabinets were not level and the granite installers did not take the time to support the granite.

Here is a link that might be useful: videos showing how to PROPERLY level cabinets.


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RE: Cracked Granite. They say normal. I say BS! What do you say??

"cabinets were not level"

FLAT is what is important, NOT level.

You can put granite on a vertical surface.

About as far from level as you can get.


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RE: Cracked Granite. They say normal. I say BS! What do you say??

"They say it is normal and it is part of the beauty of the stone."

That is laughable. Where do we get these people? lol


Old thread. Spammer.


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RE: Cracked Granite. They say normal. I say BS! What do you say??

If he is a spammer, he isn't very good. His link didn't work! LOL


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RE: Cracked Granite. They say normal. I say BS! What do you say??

You can see in the mouse-over that it goes to a business.


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RE: Cracked Granite. They say normal. I say BS! What do you say??

I am a fabricator.... and I hate giving the following advice but:

Reject it. It looks horrible and should never have been used. at the very least the fabricator should have called you before including such a prominent flaw in your tops.

Reject it. Make them do it over. They know it's unacceptable.


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RE: Cracked Granite. They say normal. I say BS! What do you say??

You guys realize this was from 2011, RIGHT???? I HATE it when I get rooked into one of these OLD threads!!

Nancy


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