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Review my Layout

Posted by hazeldazel (My Page) on
Sat, Nov 2, 13 at 23:27

So last December we bought our first home - a 1959 mid-century ranch. 3/1.5 at 1000 sq ft. Keep in mind that it's on concrete slab and it's an Eichler-style roof - exposed beam ceiling with a tar & gravel roof directly on top (no attic space).

The kitchen is a late 80's/early 90's honey oak nightmare. The cabinets and flooring are badly water damaged from the previous homeowners and the layout is absolutely horrible (you can't unload the dishwasher directly into the cabinets), so we're gonna gut the kitchen to the studs/subfloor and put in an IKEA kitchen .

There's a wall dividing the kitchen and the living room which we want to tear down and create a peninsula so it's open concept. Even though it's a small space, the fun part is we can easily move the plumbing, gas lines, and electrical - so let your imagination go wild!

To keep the MCM look, we've chosen Adel Medium Brown cabs, cork flooring, light blue glass subway tile backsplash, and white caesarstone counters. I want a pantry, a microwave drawer and an overhang on the back side of the peninsula for seating.

Dividing wall with 'drive-thru' window:
 photo null_zpsa2b4a8db.jpg

Kitchen side of dividing wall:
 photo null_zps27e04ccd.jpg

Narrow u-shape, DW blocks cabinets:
 photo null_zpsa4eedab5.jpg

Garage side of kitchen:
Kitchen photo peakavekitchen.jpg

Proposed layout - front of peninsula cabs where wall was:
 photo newkitchen.jpg

(There's a MW drawer to the right of cooktop - cab 9)
 photo newkitchen-layout.jpg

Link to the IKEA Kitchen Planner file:
IKEA Kitchen Planner


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Review my Layout

Have you had a chance to read the FAQ regarding layout help? If not, I recommend you check it out. The FAQ describes the information we need to help you get the best kitchen design for you and your family.


Regarding your layout...do you plan to have an overhead rangehood? With an open area like that, it becomes very important that you have adequate venting (i.e., a real hood - not just a downdraft).

Personally, I'd rather see the sink in the peninsula and the range against the wall. You would have quite a bit more prep space, venting would be much less expensive, and you would have a protected Cooking Zone.

For dish storage, have you considered storing some (or most) of your dishes in drawers?

If you stay with this layout, then I would move the MW drawer to the left of the cooktop...cabinet #8 would be best. This would allow someone to use the MW without getting in the way of someone cooking or cleaning up but it would still be close enough for the cook to use it.

Is that a cooktop or a slide-in range? I don't see a separate oven. If it's a wall oven under the cooktop, then I recommend you consider a range instead. Ranges are generally quite a bit less expensive than a cooktop + wall oven and the oven in a range is higher than a wall oven mounted under a cooktop. Ovens mounted under cooktops are generally so close to the floor that the oven door handle is barely above the floor when open fully.

It looks like you plan a nice deep overhang on the peninsula. If you stay with the cooktop/range in the peninsula, I strongly recommend 24" behind the cooktop/range (measured from the edge of the seating overhang to the back of the cooktop cabinet/range) for the safety and comfort of your visitors. If you put the sink there, then I recommend 18" to reduce splashing of your visitors.


Please check out the layout help FAQ (linked below).


Good luck!

Here is a link that might be useful: FAQ: How do I ask for Layout Help and what information should I include?


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RE: Review my Layout

Additionally, consider whether you need seating at the peninsula since you have a table right there already. You could do back-to-back cabinets and gain a lot of storage space for little used items if you eliminated the overhang.


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RE: Review my Layout

I totally agree with Buehl about swapping the range/cooktop with the sink for the reasons she's shared but I have an additional reason why.

Sinks are continually used by everyone in a house, even if for a quick rinse of something or a full handwashing. If someone were to come in while you are at the cooktop, another person who needs the sink will have to enter fully into the kitchen, leading to unnecessary additional traffic.

I too wanted my cooktop on my island as we had in another home but it's with Buehl's expertise (and lots of patience with me - can't think Buehl enough) that helped me come up with a much better plan. If you combine the amount of time a person uses the sink prepping & cleaning up, I'd rather have my sink on the pennisula

If you're too worried about dirty dishes on the counter, I would raise have the 2 level counter, though my preference is one level for many reasons. You would have to decide what works best for your family.


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RE: Review my Layout

I didn't put the sink in the peninsula because I really hate that look (why would I want anything dirty to be by guest seating and of course water can splash) and we need more room for prep in the peninsula. I really don't like chopping, mixing, rolling out dough, etc. next to a sink. We also both agree that we need additional seating especially when guests are over. The dining area is actually quite cramped and in fact, DH is thinking about building a banquette for that area instead.

I would prefer to do a double wall oven on the wall opposite the peninsula, but I can't find the room so I have a single wall oven under the cooktop in my proposed layout. I am planning an island hood but had trouble in the IKEA planner to get it to show. There is currently zero venting in this kitchen, so putting in the hood will cost the same regardless of position.

I really like the thought of dishes in a drawer (much easier on my bum shoulder) but I wasn't sure I would have enough storage for all of my pots, pans, appliances, baking goods, etc. to be able to put the dishes in a drawer. I guess it's hard to picture since the storage currently is so inefficient, I have to keep things out on the counter which drives me nutty.

In any case, thank you for your thoughts, it's hard trying to wrangle more storage out of this small awkward space.


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RE: Review my Layout

Can you move the door?


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RE: Review my Layout

If you're opening up the kitchen to the dining/living room...and adding stools, do you really need the second table?

If not, this would give you a lot more space for the kitchen. Would something like this work? The prep sink is optional, but might be nice to have for prep and you could hide dirty dishes in the other sink area. Just an idea :)

From Kitchen plans


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Window

Depending on the size of your window, you might move the clean up area over there (with some natural light) and keep the main work area in the current location.

From Kitchen plans


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RE: Review my Layout

I like Lavender's ideas (especially the first) if you can do without the table. But let me second or third the idea that the cooktop is better on the wall. Better a splash than steaming food for those sitting on the stools. And those sitting on the stools will have a hood jutting towards their heads.

Too bad that it couldn't be mocked up on Ikea software, but island hoods take up real estate and will be the biggest visual thing going on. In order to work well they also need to be low enough to capture. There are the models with glass sides, but then there's cleaning the grimy glass.

And they are more expensive -- the units themselves as well as the ductwork to run across the room, assuming an exit out the wall. That is, unless you stumbled on the one that we sent off to Habitat. Getting rid of the peninsula stove was a main goal of our reno.


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RE: Review my Layout

Putting in an island hood costs a lot more than one on an exterior (or even interior) wall. Since you're on a slab, I also question your statement that you can easily move gas, water, and electrical. Have you talked to anyone about moving these utilities? Walls C and D don't look like what's existing. Are you adding a bumpout?


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RE: Review my Layout

  • Posted by buehl 7a, AHS 5/6 (MD) (My Page) on
    Sun, Nov 3, 13 at 16:44

Moving things around like I suggested plus adding the banquette:

hazeldazel's Kitchen #1a photo hazeldazel1a_zps2ed81238.jpg

I didn't see mention of another table, so I'm assuming this is your only table space. If that's true, then I would not want to eliminate the table in the kitchen.

This layout gives you 42" of prep space b/w the sink and the wall...a nice chunk of real estate!

It does break one of my preferences...the DW is in the Prep Zone and b/w the range and sink- which is not where I would normally put it. However, in a kitchen this size, you usually have to make compromises somewhere. To keep the DW close to the dish storage and to keep the MW on the periphery so it's useful both from inside and outside the kitchen, the DW placement is a compromise.

Note that there is over 22" of space b/w the DW and the counter on the range wall - enough room to stand in that corner to unload the DW to the upper cabinets to the left of the range. The DW also does not block the drawer stack to the left of the range - there's enough room to have the drawers open fully and the DW open so you can stand in front of the DW and unload silverware, etc. directly into the drawers.

There is a bit more filler than normal on the left side of the range wall. This will allow you to have an upper cabinet door with hinges on the left side and still be able to open the door fully.

The peninsula has a 17" seating overhang which, when combined with the decorative door/finished end panel, will give you 18" b/w the sink and someone sitting at the counter.

As was suggested by someone else, if you are concerned about seeing dirty dishes, then you could have a bar-height seating overhang (raised 6" up from the working counter). In addition, a deep sink will hide many, many dishes. While this won't hide everything from everyone, it will hide the dishes from those sitting down in the LR.

I normally do not like a cleanup sink in an island or peninsula, but if I had to have one of them in that location, I would choose the cleanup sink over the range b/c of the reasons stated previously. It also frees up the peninsula/island for other uses that a range (especially gas) would not allow - even when the range is not in use. With a sink, you have the added advantage of getting a cutting board to fit over the sink to give you more work space, if needed. However, with 42" b/w the sink and corner and another 28" or so b/w the corner and range, I think you will have enough workspace already for most everyday tasks. Of course, YMMV.

Regarding cabinet sizes, I don't know the sizes IKEA has, but I know they have a limited selection. However, check out the IKEA Fans site (linked below) to see what you can do by modifying IKEA cabinets - it's almost "the sky's the limit" if you have DIY skills and can modify the cabinets to suit what you need.

BTW...with a range, you can get a range with two ovens or with the functionality of two ovens. For example:

30" ranges

  • GE Cafe CGS990SETSS
  • GE Profile PGS950SEFSS

36" ranges

  • Eurochef/Verona VEFSGG365DSS
  • Of course, there pricey (but very nice) BlueStars


[Edited for typos]

Here is a link that might be useful: IKEA Fans website

This post was edited by buehl on Mon, Nov 4, 13 at 5:31


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RE: Review my Layout

Buehl- That's a nice layout! I thought for sure OP said separate dining room...but apparently not.

Here's one other idea...using Buehl's very nice software. This would provide a separate baking/snack area and would be even better with a beverage fridge! Once again, happy to spend someone else's money :)

From Kitchen plans


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RE: Review my Layout

Keeping the range in the peninsula, 3 variations:

Note that the DW is on the right side of the sink so it does not clash with the trash pullout - both of which will probably need to be open at the same time.

The trash pullout should be located such that it is accessible from all three primary work zones (Prep, Cooking, Cleanup) - so that means either to the left of the sink or to the right of the range.

Regarding the range (or cooktop + under counter oven): Your rangehood will need to be oversized:

  • At least 6" wider than the range, preferably 12"
  • A shape that is efficient at grabbing and holding smoke, grease, fumes, odors, etc. to give the rangehood a chance to expel them
  • At least 27" deep
  • Stronger cfms b/c there are more and stronger air currents in an open situation like this and the fan needs to be strong enough to overcome those air currents (which may also require make-up air)

Regarding the following comment: "... I really don't like chopping...next to a sink..."
I'm a bit puzzled about not wanting to chop next to the sink - if you're chopping/cutting up fruit or veggies, you usually want to be next to a water source. Ditto if working with anything that requires water (which the vast majority of prepping usually needs at some point).


Layout 2a...Most contiguous prep space (48"), but, it's on the far side from the sink and I wouldn't want it so far from the sink. In addition, there is possible conflict with someone trying to use the MW and someone else trying to prep at the same time.
hazeldazel's Kitchen #2a photo hazeldazel2a_zpsa273f823.jpg


Layout 2b...Better location for prep space. While it would be nice to have more separation of the MW from the range, it's not a bad setup.
hazeldazel's Kitchen #2b photo hazeldazel2b_zpsee3a0346.jpg


Layout 2c...While this one is an option, I would not recommend it b/c of the very, very tight space for the table if you need to use the two seats against the bottom wall. It also, IMO, wastes cabinet space by having a 24" trash pullout and the workspace is chopped up into sizes that aren't quite big enough for prepping - except possibly to the left of the range - but again, I think it's too far from the sink and there is a possible conflict with someone trying to use the MW and someone else trying to prep at the same time.

hazeldazel's Kitchen #2c photo hazeldazel2c_zps24e38eb0.jpg


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RE: Review my Layout

I can't better the suggestions above, but I can tell you that in our previous home, our first kitchen had a peninsula with a raised bar and no "working" items in it (no cooktop or sink -- well, there was a bar sink that was never used) because we wanted to hide the dirty dishes from the family room side. When we remodeled, we removed the [hated] raised bar, widened the peninsula, and put the main sink on the peninsula. We never had any splashing issue, dirty dishes still weren't visible from the family room side because of the depth of the sink. (Our guests are welcome to see the dirty dishes and pots and pans -- it means we're enjoying a meal together!) As for the raised bar, like an island hood, it's a visual "block", and my personal preference is an open look.


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RE: Review my Layout

We haven't yet heard from HazelDazel about whether the door on the right side can be moved and, if so, how much and in which direction(s).


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RE: Review my Layout

The door on the right side is to the garage, I don't want to move it because the dining area will be reduced. That is the only dining area (there's no dining room).

Wall C on my layout is actually 42" and then there's the start of the hallway. I wish I could move that wall back so that it's flush with the wall where the sink is now, but it holds a major roof beam.

In a perfect world, I would have nothing on the peninsula and just have it flat and plenty of space to hang out with friends while we cook and plenty of space for baking, prepping, pickling, whatever.

The front door is on the wall with the dining room it doesn't perfectly line up with the hallway - it starts about at the point where the overhang connects with the stove etc.

The other side of the wall that has the sink now, is the only full bathroom.

There is zero ducting in the house (no AC, and just wall furnaces) and the beams are exposed in the ceiling as part of the architectural design, so we don't want to cover them up. We will need to pierce the roof to vent the hood no matter where it goes.

I attached some pictures below that show the look I was going for - and you can see they have the same sort of ceiling (the 2nd photo is what our ceiling looks like):


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RE: Review my Layout

I was going to ask OP about the garage door, but this might work better anyway.

From Kitchen plans

I like the peninsula styles, just offering some more options. I love banquettes, but not everyone does, so a big table in the middle is just another possibility :)


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