Use the Cree CR6 (a.k.a Home Depot Ecosmart) recessed can modules for general lighting - these are ultra-efficient and give off incandecent-like color, althougn they don't render colors nearly as vividly and low-volttage halogen lights. Save the MR16 halogens for undercounter lights or pendants over the kitchen table or prep areas, where they'll make the colors pop more without drawing too much powere since the LEDs are handling most of the room illumunation.

lynn - I would call one of the companies that deals with LED lighting and ask them - they may be able to help you with your color spectrum questions. I ordered my cree LR6 2700k LED can lights from polar-ray.com and had excellent customer service. I have also heard good things about environmentallighs.com, but I have not personally dealt with them. Search gardenweb for both companies and you will find that many here have used them and were happy. I know polar-ray allowed returns when I bought from them.

However, they will probably steer you away from halogen since I don't think they carry halogen lights (maybe they do - I don't know).

I know that you are trying to get your tiles to look beautiful, but there is more to lighting than color rendering. I hope you can find something that makes you happy! I think most people are happier with 2700k temp lights in a kitchen than higher temps, but you are trying to solve a specific color rendering problem. You might just have to buy several different bulbs and try them all out. Lighting and color is very site-specific.

We are very happy with our cree LED can lights. Our electrician initially put halogen lights in the cans, and we did not like them at all because of the heat, the harsh shadows they cast and the whiteness of the light. Here is a picture that has an LED light on the left (cree LR6 2700k) and a halogen light (don't remember the bulb specs) on the right, and you can definitely see the color and shadow differences on the wall behind.

Good luck!

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Lee676, thank you! Pudgybaby, thank you for the picture! From reading, it seems that not all halogens give the same light that I like. The MR16 gives the light that I like but they are very small wattage. I like the light in your picture that has more of the yellow on the wall showing.

I read in an article last night when I was trying to figure out the light spectrum of a halogen bulb that MR16 halogens have a 2800K to a 3200K while incandescents have a 2700K. The halogen has a higher color rendering index making it brighter. From your picture it seems to look the other way around.

I have my box here for the one $23 LED soft white floor dimmable 65 watt equivalent bulb with 10.5 energy used in watts, 575 lumens, 3 year warranty, 35,000 hours with a 92 color accuracy rating and 55 lumens per watt says on the back and true white technology with 27005 light spectrum and 120 volts. It does not say LR6. Is this the same bulb?

I do like the NO glare light and no heat but wonder why my tiles are not as pretty as with the halogen. I wonder if they have a 3200K LED Cree Light?

What I fear is that if I used the halogens, the room will get too hot.

I need an electrician now for the lighting in the ceiling before I can pick out the rest of what I want in the kitchen since I didn't realize how lighting affects colors so much.

The electrician is coming by tomorrow and buying the tiles before changing my lights since the tiles looked great at my neighbor's home that has halogen lighting and they look great in the natural light but look terrible in most other lights so I wish I could just return the tiles but they are not returnable. I never buy anything not returnable but I thought I was in love when I saw their new kitchen and the tiles were so pretty.

But I will try to remember that I do not want hot overhead lights so I will see if a 3500K LED is similar to a 3200K Halogen or I should just stay with the 2700K LED.

I will keep you updated. I will never buy anything again that is not returnable.

Lynn, we have been working on lighting this past two weeks as well.

Many people start with the Cree at Home Depot. We have been putting these in and really like them. The light is great for our room. They are also given a thumbs-up over on the lighting board. (Aside: it would be wise to post over there, as lighting professionals often help on that board.)

We had issues replacing our central light fixture with a can in the same spot; the sheetrock crumbled enough that we needed repairs or an alternate strategy. So we were looking at a lot of options, including LEDs with a wider ring around the base. I found out that lighting stores do have recessed LEDs,our local store had them with about a 3000 rating. Much more expensive than HD though.

Hope this helps.

Color rendering index (CRI) is a lighting-industry measure of how well you can distinguish different colors with light from a given light bulb - a number from 1 to 100. Although this measurement has been found not to correlate perfectly with human perception of color rendering, at least it's measured the same way by all manufacturers so it's a reasonably good metric. All standard incandescent or halogen lamps are 100, as is natural daylight. LEDs typically range from 80 to 92 (with the Cree CR6 at the high end there), and CFLs are usually 82 to 86.

Color temperature is completely different and not related to color rendering - an incandescent bulb is about 2700K, daylight on a sunny day is more like 5000K, but both make it easy to discern nuances of color; it's just that the incandescent bulb skews everything "warmer" (more yellowish, less bluish) than natural daylight. An example of a light with low CRI would be certain outdoor street lamps or security lighting that makes everything look yellow or orange/pink, or old fluorescent office lighting that made everyone/everything look unflattering.

You can easily get fluorescent or LED bulbs that give off 4000K or higher light, but it may seem jarring indoors if you're used to the warmer light from an incandescent bulb. Halogen lamps give off a slightly whiter light than standard incandescents, ranging from about 2800K for low-wattage line-voltage (120v in the US) bulbs to over 3000K for higher-wattage low-voltage (12v) bulbs. Thus, for most people the low-voltage halogen bulbs such as MR16s have the best-looking light. But higher color temperatures than that give off an off-putting hazy-day light unless it's real bright - try a single 5000K "daylight" CFL bulb in your bedroom lamp at night and you'll see what I mean. In other words, color temperature isn't a "rating" where higher is better, just different.

You can get high-efficiency 35w MR16s that are just as bright as normal 50w MR16s, but give off less heat. MR16s are dichroic, which means most of their heat is radiated upwards into the fixture, not down at you in the same direction the light emanates. Likewise with LEDs.

The LED module in your box is a Cree CR6 (*not* LR6 which is a more expensive light they make that's brighter) that Home Depot rebrands "Ecosmart". $23 is a great price for these; they're $40 where I live.

If you want daylight-balanced fluorescent 4' tubes for your old celing fixture, get Philips TL950 bulbs (about $8.50 each on Amazon and elsewhere). These are 5000K and very high quality 98K CRI. If you have old T12 ballasts you'll need to change them out to electronic T8 replacements, which besides being more efficient also won't hum or flicker.

P.S. sorry about the gazillion typos in my last post

Colorfast, thank you for sharing your experience and I am happy that you like the Cree LED Home Depot. I found a 3000K LED at Home Depot that is 75 Watts instead of 65 watts but has a color rendering Index of 84 instead of 92 like the 2700K Cree LED at Home Depot. It is brighter which I like and the ivory white in the tile is now ivory white instead of brownish gray but some of the pretty reddish brown in the tile is now just brown. My friend loves how bright and non-glaring it is but I still like the Halogen lighting over the stove better but hate how hot it gets.

Sorry about the problems you had replacing your central fixture. I am still not sure what problems I will encounter with my 21 year old fluorescent light that is on a popcorn (made of Styrofoam little balls) ceiling that I had painted so I know the ceiling will have to be patched up and repainted.

Good luck with your lighting project. I never knew lighting could be so complicated.

Lee676, Thank you so much for explaining about the Color Rendering Index (CRI) and the light spectrum and how they differ.

I think the 6500K wattage fluorescent bulbs are nice and bright but I think I should have gotten the 500K bulbs with a better CRI. I just did not understand CRI when I replaced the hideous old ones that were making my tiles so gray and upsetting me. One of the tile installers who came here to give me an estimate told me to go with the highest light spectrum bulb.

I think you are right that my 21 year old rectangular box Fluorescent light is humming and flickering since it needs a electronic T8 replacement. But I think I want to replace the fixture since I hate how it looks despite the amount of light it gives. But it is only lighting up the center of the room and the counters are dark and so is the area over the kitchen table by the window when I eat at night since I have no light over that area.

The electrician this morning wanted to put 10 Halogen MR-16 low voltage bulbs in the ceiling for light at 50 watts a bulb and 4" recessed can. Or he says, I can do 10 Halogen Par30 bulbs with 120 Volts in the 4" recessed cans. But that sounds like it will be so hot. The little ones sound like they will give a great light and not be so hot but that is expensive doing so many little lights. This electrician was not familiar with CRI or color spectrum and felt LED's are still not perfected I showed him the color differences and brightness difference with the bulbs I bought as samples and the light over my range hood.

The other electrician the other day wanted to install 6 recessed lights in my ceiling using a 6.5" can and incandescent lights at a good price until I add in the LED bulb to replace the incandescent bulb he only installs. He will also replace the light over my sink with newer technology since the Cree LED light that gives 2700K would not fit as it was too deep. But I found out today that the 300K Cree LED does fit but is now in too deep and the recessed lighting is not great looking now.

I still like the way the bulb over my sink looks. The electrician took it out and it says it takes R16 halogen bulbs or incandescent bulbs no more than 40 watts but the bulb in there that the range hood installer put in there that came with my Zephyr Breeze II hood at the end of 2009 and has not burned out yet says 50 watts on the bulbs and he feels is a Par30 bulb. How do I tell what bulb is in there that I like so much but that gets so hot?

Another electrician called me back and does not like LED and prefers the bright white non-glaring true color rendering light of the halogens and prefers to install six 6.5" Par 30 75 watt halogen lights in my ceiling and says when they burn out, I can replace them with LED's if I wish when the technology improves.

I left a message on two more electrician's phones since I would like a price for LED recessed lighting and for someone to know about the CRI and light spectrum so I can have light color like the light coming from my Zephyr Breeze II Range Hood.

Please see the prior above post to colorfast so I don't have to make this post longer and repeat myself.

Thank you so much again for teaching me and others. You are so knowledgeable. Are you an electrician?

So you recommend the low voltage halogen lighting in the ceiling and recommend the LED bulb? Which LED would look like the light from the MR16 Halogen I seem to like unless what I have is a PAR 30 bulb? The bulb says GLOBE 50 Watts, 120 Volts and nothing else and has a end looking like an incandescent screw on bulb.

I'm not an electrician; just a lighting geek and occasional renovation guy, although I've done lots of minor electrical work like replacing lighting fixtures, switches, and outlets.

As much as I like LEDs for their efficiency and long life, even the best LEDs don't give off as clean a light as halogens, and you obviously want the highest quality light, so you may be best off using halogen bulbs now (LED retrofits are available for all of the popular halogen bulb sizes, so you can change over later if the cost falls (which it almost certainly will) and quality improves (less sure of this).

The more difficult choice may be which size and type - the large PAR38 (6" can), the smaller PAR30 (5" can), or the small low-voltage MR16 (3" or 4" can). My first thought was to go with the MR16, using 35 watt IR (infrared) bulbs that are as bright, but somewhat less hot, than standard 50 watt non-IR MR16 bulbs. These are more expensive since you'll need some transformers to convert to 12v, and if you want dimming you'll need low-voltage dimmers too. But in return you get that higher color temperature whilst retaining a halogen bulb's inherent outstanding color rendering. I also was thinking since MR16s are dichroic (also called "cool beam"), it would throw less heat into the room, but I just learned that non-dichroic MR16s are now sold as well, because not all recessed fixtures can handle the heat (there are different fixtures made for insulated attics, areas not covered with insulation, and lower-floor "remodeler" fixtures for finished rooms with no access from above). In any case, you'll want to specify the bulbs so you get what you want - this is GE's guide which explains their benefits and shows the different wattages and beam spreads available. GE's bulbs are dichroic, so you'll need to verify your fixtures and installation is designed to handle the heat from whatever wattage bulb you plan to use. If you wind up needing non-dichroic bulbs, Philips (and maybe Osram/Sylvania, haven't checked) have similar bulbs that are non-dichroic ("protects the fixture by directing heat out the front"). I usually go with the wide-flood 55-degree beam, although if you used more lights or have a high ceiling the 35- or 40-degree flood may work better, and glare less if you look up at the lights.

Choice B is either a PAR30 or PAR38. These run on line voltage and can use inexpensive dimmers. In either case, I'd go with the wide floods with these, and again the IR type which is more efficient and doesn't get as hot since they're lower wattage. For the PAR30, Home Depot sells GE 48-watt halogen/IR flood bulbs that are as bright as standard 75-watt halogen reflector bulbs. For the PAR38 you'll need to order online or go to an electrical store; I use GE's 60-watt, 120 volt halogen-IR wide flood which works well and is as bright as most 100 watt bulbs. GE makes the wide-flood only in 60 watt versions, although Philips has a similar bulb in different wattages if you need them. The color temperature will be somewhat lower than the MR16s, and they throw more of their heat into the room.

The bulbs in the range hood should say on them somewhere what the are. According to Zephyr's online site, your hood uses two PAR20 bulbs, with incandescent 40w standard and 50w halogen optional (which evidently you have). I'm not aware of any IR bulbs made in the PAR20 size that would lower the heat.

Lee676, Thank you so much! Now to find an electrician that will do what I want. I am off to Home Depot to bring a few bulbs home to see what the color is.

What recessed size can is best to get the best flood light that is non-glaring and to be able to one day convert to LED if I wish to?

Is it better to pay for more the smaller MR16? They seem to have a similar light spectrum as the PAR20? Or can I go with the bigger ones despite not being as trendy so I can install less of them or will this give me areas where no light will be?

I was surprised one of GE's halogen bulbs when I did a search for those you suggested has a 2700K light spectrum which would not be what I would want.

Shame I came across at Home Depot a 3000K LED, 85 watt that only has 84 CRI and gives a very bright 850 Lumens of light but is heavy and not as pretty as my Halogen light but prettier and brighter than the 2700K LED 65 Watt, 92 CRI at Home Depot. Both are CREE.

The light makes my tile more white which I like but some of the golds and beige's are not showing up as well as I would like.

I had no idea lighting would be so difficult. I just want to replace my ugly blinking and humming big fluorescent light in the ceiling in my kitchen but I want nice bright true color light that is not too hot. I guess I can't have everything.

I have been reading that that installed 4" recessed cans wish they went to a bigger size.

Home Depot had the worst selection of bulbs or at least the branch I went to and I need to maybe try Lowe's tomorrow.

GE 16393 75-Watt PAR30L Edison Halogen Floodlight with 1,050 lumen's and 60 degree wide beam and 2830K light spectrum. Someone posted about this light on another thread (think the one about size of recessed bulbs, so I looked it up and saved myself the post). Would the CRI be 100 since it is not listed?

Yes, any standard clear halogen bulb is 100 CRI.

That bulb will work well, though I'd prefer the lower-wattage but only slightly less bright halogen-IR versions which will cut heat by at least one third - one of these:
GE 48w Halogen/IR, PAR30 long neck, 850 lumens, 35 deg flood, 2750K color, 2500 CBCP. These are sold at Lowes, and though I can't find them online, I swear I've seen them at HD too.

Or this PAR30 variant, which has a slightly higher color temperature and can use shallow fixtures if need be:
GE 19990 - PAR30 Short Neck 50w PAR30 Halogen/IR, 35 deg. flood beam, 825 lumens, 2810 CRI, 4000 hrs. 2700 CPCB

Or what I usually use: GE PAR38 Halogen-IR 60w Wide Flood 1050 lumens, 2850K color, 3000 hrs., 1100 CPCB.

I like the large PAR38 wide floods, which are elegant, not glaring due to the large area the light is emanating from and high-quality reflector and lens optics, and give a perfect spread of light on the floor from 8' ceilings with no bright spots or dark areas between bulb spreads - one bulb takes over where the last bulb fades out. But if you like smaller openings, choose the PAR30s instead, they'll work too.

The pros and cons of the different sizes I listed uptread. You can also experiment with blue-coated floodlamps, like GE's Reveal line which is available in most floodlamp sizes at HD or Lowes. These artificially boost the color temperature of a halogen bulb to nearly 3500K by using light-blue coating on the bulb to filter out yellow light, resulting in a whiter than usual light from a halogen bulb. It also makes it significantly dimmer since the filtered light is lost. But you may find these bring out the colors you want to see in your backsplash or floors.

I use black step-baffle trim for all sizes most of the time, but it too is a matter a personal preference.

Lee676, Thank you! That GE PAR38 Bulb sounds like it would have the color I like and the brightness I like! It would also fit over my sink. I will stop at Lowe's to see if they have this bulb to try out. I need to find an electrician to discuss what I want. But I only have 180 Watts of light in the kitchen right now, so I feel I could be happy with 6 of the 60W bulbs to give me 360Watts of light.

It is cold this morning in Northern NJ making me realize that my kitchen with only one vent will not get too hot with the halogens in the winter time. In the summer time, I always have the air conditioner on.

The light at 10 AM this morning without the sun to bright was perfect on my tiles by the window. I put a few by the sliding door window.

I will look up all of these bulbs and print this to discuss this with an electrician. One electrician's price was very good but he only includes incandescent lighting and told me I could buy my own bulbs. Let me check on the size of these bulbs.

I don't think either Lowe's or HD stocks these; some electrical or lighting stores do if they sell GE lighting, as do online retailers like 1000bulbs. The closest you'll find at Lowes is this bulb (which Target sells too), but it's slightly different - skewed for longer life, a not quite as wide beam spread, and a bit lower 2800K rather than 2850K color temp.

....but if you can't find a GE 20947 locally, you can buy one of the Lowes/Target bulbs and get a general idea of what they will look like. But I'd hold out for the 20947 even if they play hard-to-get and can be pricey - I've used them in several homes and nothing else I've used works so well. You get perfectly, evenly illuminated rooms with no bright spots or dim spots across the floor, vibrant colors, and almost no glare even if you stare right up at the bulbs. And each 60w bulb is as bright as two 60w incandescent floodlamps.

Thank you so much Lee676! Now with my armed knowledge, I am ready to find an electrician to install my recessed lighting and make sure my bulbs that I like fit.

I am going to call this one electrician back that had a good price for 6 recessed lights and he would give me a free updated recess light over the sink and install my new fixture in my dining room also free. BUT he only sells the fixtures with the incandescents. So I am going to find out what size bulb they take and see if these bulbs you told me about would fit inside, since maybe I should just go with him.

I am waiting for a call back from two other electricians. One electrician wanted me to buy 10 4" low voltage halogen recessed lights. I know small is in style but it seems I would be happier with the bigger bulbs and more of a wide radius of light like the GE 20947 bulb.

What, did that electrician buy a stash of 100 fixtures and bulbs that he tries to foist on all of his customers so he can use them up? Most contractors will install whatever you ask for. But if he has anything designed for either PAR38 (parabolic aluminized reflector) or R40 bulbs (they're both about the same size), generally cans that are 6" or larger in diameter, the halogen bulbs you want will fit. You'll want to check that the trim bezel is designed for PAR38/R40 bulbs as well, so the hole is the right size.

Where are you getting the notion that small lights are fashionable? Most of what I see in the stores are still 5" or 6", and that's what I usually see in photos in remodeling mags too. I sometimes use a mix, large cans for general lighting, small ones near the cabinets or for accents. You can use small cans with low-voltage lights that still cover a with radius - the GE 79233 i linked to upthread (35w MR16 with 2950K) has the same 55-degree beam spread as the 20947, and is nearly as bright (1000 rather than 1100 CBCP, which is a measure of how much light it throws on any given spot in its beam). But looking up at a wide-flood tiny light is more glaring than looking up at a larger light that gives off roughly the same amount of light. You can do it either way; get whatever you prefer.

Anyway I always avoid trendiness and this year's fad, which is certain to look dated in a few years. Good design is timeless.

that still cover a with large radius

Thank you Lee for your informative post. I will call the electrician to ask him what type of bulb the recessed lighting cans he installs takes so I can see if it would fit bulbs I like.

In another post I read that small bulbs were fashionable but I also read that many people that did 4" wish they did 5". I want the biggest spread and the best light so I will be happy.

One of the electricians suggested the 35W MR16W bulbs in a 4" recessed can but then he said 10 would have to be installed at $175 a piece with dimmer switches and switches extra money on top of this. My kitchen is only 10 X 14.

The other electrician wanted to install my 15" fixture (I may put in the dining room that only takes incandescent medium button twisting bulbs or CFL.... I found smaller ones to fit that can do 2700K or 3500K or 6500K at Lowes) in the middle of the room for $175 and install the cans for the LED lights for $165 a piece but I will have to supply the bulbs.

That electrician that wanted to install the recessed lighting with the Incandescent bulbs would charge $150 for each 6" can and he would give me a new one free above the sink and install the fixture in my dining room for free.

One of the electricians that has not called me back to come look at the kitchen says his price is $150 to $175 per each recessed light and he uses 75W PAR30 bulbs in a 6.5" high hat. He has not seen my room but feels 6 will be what I need.

I agree that good design is timeless.

I tried out the CFL for my bedroom table lamps and they are all nicer than the Incandescent bulbs. I was only able to try the 2700K, 3500K and the 6500K that came in the small size at Lowe's. I was amazed that the 6500K had less lumens and was not as bright. I preferred the 3500K light on my tiles (brought up a couple) and on my deep cream walls, linen blinds, sheer soft white curtains, and sand white rubbed out look Maple furniture on top of the beige carpet. The 2700K was just a bit too yellow for me. The 6500K, took out too much yellow making it look like I was out in bright sunlight. The 3500K was cozy and warm without everything being too yellow and my tiles were pretty. Unfortunately, this is not a light bulb I want in my kitchen since it is not glare-free like that LED 3,000K bulb that I seem to like better than the 2700K LED bulb despite having a CRI of only 84 rather than 92. I wish the LED 3,000K bulb would have a CRI of closer to 100 since that would be my perfect bulb with a lot of bright lumens. So now I learned, that is it not just the color spectrum and not just the CRI and not just the Lumens that makes for nice light but a combination of the above and a glare free bulb. The electrician is coming by tomorrow night instead.

> I wish the LED 3,000K bulb would have a CRI of closer to 100 since that would be my perfect bulb with a lot of bright lumens

Maybe you want these .... 92 CRI, 3000K, 1000 lumens, yet only 13-1/2 watts (won't get hot), and are PAR38 size to fit any standard 6" can. I'd like them better if they had a wider beam spread than 25 degree, and if they weren't so expensive, but they may work in places where you need lots of good-quality, low-heat light, and maybe throughout the kitchen.

You may want to pick up one of these, available for a few bucks at any hardware store:

You put the light bulb in the socket, plug it into a standard electrical extension cord, and plug the extension cord into a wall outlet. Now you can stand on a ladder or chair and try any bulb (except low-voltage) where it would be installed in the kitchen ceiling, and see their color and beam spread. (A recessed light would be maybe 8" higher than you can get with this setup, but it's close).

There are some Cree 6" LED modules that are 3500K, 90 CRI, in either 650 or 1000 lumens (LR6-DR650 and LR6-DR1000 respectively), as well as a 4" LED modules (LR4E-30 and LR4E-15) with 515 or 540 lumens. But they're expensive. There are alot of manufacturers of both LED modules (with built-in trim) or LED floodlamp bulbs that are 3000K or 3500K, though I don't know if any of them are high-CRI other than the Cree, but I don't know everything that's available and there may well be some. I suppose the GE Reveal halogens, which are sold in every common floodlamp size from MR16 to PAR38, are also an option - they don't list color temperature or CRI, but it would be around 3500K, and should have excellent color rendering.

The 2850K 6" halogen wide floods you mentioned earlier though should be very similar to the range-hood light you like so much, and 6 of those will easily light your kitchen brightly - space them fairly close to the outskirts of the ceiling, not bunched together. If you go with the small low-voltage lights, I think 8 would be enough.

More high-CRI 3000K LEDs:

MR16 - 3000K, 95 CRI (!), 4w, 250 lumens, 40 degree beam spread, over 30,000 hour life
PAR38 - 3000K, 95 CRI, 16w, 1048 lumens, 30 or 40 degree beam spread, over 30,000 hour life

Never heard of this company, but they use Cree LEDs in their products.

Interesting comment about the Cree lights being expensive. I thought that too, but the CR6 is $53 and it includes the trim and reflector. If you compare the cost for incandescent trim plus the bulb the difference may not be that great in new construction applications.

Billy

I still love the halogen lighting but my fear is how hot it will get. But the room is open to the family room that is colder than the rest of the house due to the cathedral ceiling. The kitchen only has an 8" ceiling and only one vent. The big sliding door makes the kitchen cold in the winter time and the air conditioner makes it cold in the summer time. When it is not too hot or cold outside, so no heat or air conditioner on, it is nice in the kitchen.

Thank you Lee676 for the information that I will discuss with the electrician tomorrow.

So maybe getting a can that fits a Par 38 bulb or Par 30 bulb is the way to go? How about long necks and short necks?

Which do you like better for my kitchen, the halogen or the LED with 3,000 or 3,500 light spectrum and a lot of lumens?

I've never seen your kitchen (or any pictures of it) and thus don't know how your tiles or countertop or paint or cabinets will look like under different lighting, so I have no way to know which would make your colors look best, but my inclination is to go with PAR38 bulbs in 6" cans, because that gives you the most options now and also in the future to change if necessary, or if better/cheaper LED lights come along. I've generally found high color temperatures (4000K and up) look best with white cabinets, which turn yellowish under 2700K light, but that wood cabinets look best with lower color temperatures. But the differences between halogen (about 2850k) and 3000 or 3500K are more subtle.

I lean towards the GE 20947 halogen PAR38 bulbs I mentioned earlier, in part because I've used them frequently and can vouch that they give off great light (a 2850K 100CRI halogen won't dull colors like a 2700K 82CRI CFL does), an even well-focused beam spread, and not much glare. And the light bulbs themselves look good, more so than many LED floodlamps currently available which look more like showerheads or jet engines with visible heatsinks. The halogen bulbs have a rated 3000 hour life; by the time they burn out there should be a much larger, higher quality, and cheaper assortment of LED retrofits available then there are now; indeed, a halogen bulb now and an LED replacement two or three years hence could be less expensive than an LED bulb now. I don't notice much heat from them when installed in an 8' ceiling - they're much further away from you than the lights on your rangehood, and considerably bigger but only slightly higher wattage (and wattage correlates with heat). If you're really concerned about adding any heat though, maybe something like the Home Depot Commercial Electric 5"/6" LED modules (or another similar brand) would be better - they're cool, not wildly expensive, efficient, 3000K, but also only low-80s CRI.

You can put a PAR30 bulb in a 6" or 6.5" can, but doing so requires a conical trim kit to look good (so there's no big gap around the bulb), and I've never liked that appearance - the fixture looks too big for the bulb - but getting a PAR38-capable nonetheless gives you that flexibility, whereas a 5" can can use only a PAR30. Myself I still prefer to use 5" cans for PAR30 lights for the neater appearance.

Long necks or short necks are a choice only for the PAR30 size; other sizes have only one common shape. The long-neck bulb is more common in residential fixtures, and most of what you'll find in consumer-oriented stores. Cheap bulb extenders are sold in hardware stores that will effectively turn a short-neck PAR30 into a long-neck version, and sometimes the socket in the recessed fixture can be adjusted in or out to suit either. The short-neck PAR30 (or smaller bulbs) are a good option when dealing with shallow ceilings though where big cans may not fit. But most times (and nearly all times if there's an attic above your kitchen), there's plenty of space for a normal-depth large can.

Lee676, I had posted my kitchen so I guess I thought everyone saw it. I posted parts of it deciding on the layout of the tiles. I posted parts of it when choosing appliances. I will post it again once I have the new lighting in.

Your post now and all your posts have helped me so much and now I feel I want a 6" recessed can that fits a PAR38 bulb. I like the bulb you picked out since I like the 100 CRI and it is cold again tonight with my family room and kitchen colder than the rest of the house so I feel maybe the hot halogens will not be bad in there and actually help with the heating costs in the winter time. I like the idea of getting the halogen now and when the bulbs burn out, hopefully LED's with better CRI and lumen's will be out and color spectrum higher than 2700K.

Thanks for letting me know that long necks and shorter necks are a choice for PAR30 bulbs.

I feel more calmed down now and when I get my quote, I will make a decision with a few more questions to the electricians as I feel knowledgeable enough to get what I want. No use giving me bulbs I will take out and never use. I want the bulb you chose and will find out where to buy it to try it out tomorrow.

Lee, you have amazing knowledge and I appreciate you always taking the time to help me out. Thank you!

I'm actually doing the research for myself since I'm about to embark on the same thing - all-new recessed lighting in the house I'm trying to move into (short sale, it's complicated). But if I can help others at the same time, all the better. I'll probably go with Cree CR6 where color is less crucial, and the GE 20947 halogens where it is.

I walked into a McDonalds fast food joint that is currently undergoing renovations today - they're changing most of their restaurants over to a more elegant Starbucks-y look. I immediately recognised the Cree lights that at first I thought were my CR6 lights - they're so distinctive. On closer look though, they had a slightly bigger lens with a thinner rim, and a cooler color, which means they were LR6 3500K bulbs (not sure if the 650 or 1000 lumen version, but definitely the deep recess). I'll try to make it back at nighttime to see how they look. Only one other McD's near me has been renovated, and that was about 2 years ago and they used CFLs. I wonder if they have since standardized on the LR6s or if each restaurant is different. Certainly, the overall theme is being kept consistant amongst all the newly remodeled locations

Lee676, I looked up that great LED you mentioned but it is out of the country and I think you have to buy many for them to ship. Maybe I should order one GE 20947 halogen bulb to see how I like it since it has a wide spread and maybe you are right that the time it burns out, there will be more LED options available at better prices. Also with the winter here, my kitchen is now cold so a little bit of heat will be nice.

I just love the 3,000 light on that LED bulb but maybe I would like the 2830 light also since I do not like 2700K light on my tiles or even in my bedroom I found out.

Lee676, I just spent way too much time trying to find a local store that sells the GE 20947 bulb to see what the 2850K light spectrum looks like. Amazon.com has only 2 left since last night and I wanted it now so I can discuss wanting this bulb with electricians. Grainger.com has a local store that is closed but has a very similar bulb in all respects on its website but does not list the GE color spectrum of the bulb and it has a 55 radius spread rather than a 60" radius spread with the same 1080 lumens and same 60PAR/HIR/WFL description. When I typed GE 20947 at the Grainger.com site (GE told me they had this bulb but then again, GE told me the 6 other stores I called today had this bulb and they do not and their search engine just said no such item found), I got a GE Halogen Par38 bulb that looks identical except for the 5 degrees less flood area. I wonder if this is the same bulb? I guess I have to call GE and Grainger's on Monday when they are both open.

I really wanted the LED bulb but I do not like the floor beam angle radius and the reviews of the Home Depot bulb and the Sullivan Bulb seems to be that each bulb has a different color and some of them only lasted 2 months. So maybe you are right to go with Halogen for now until the LED improves. I want to see what the 2850K color looks like and then discuss with the two electricians which can fits this bulb nicely and if they will deduct for not buying their bulbs and buying my own.

The two electricians are close in price with the one giving the BR40 Halogen light bulbs $85 less in cost and the other giving the GE PAR38 Reveal Bulbs that only have a 25 radius beam and I know I do not like Reveal Incandescent bulbs since the blue takes way too much yellow out. The more expensive electrician lives farther away and says his cans are more up to date with springs that take any bulbs but his emailed ignored my question on what can he uses.

If they are the exact same can, despite liking the younger electrician due to his knowledge of light spectrum and CRI, I like that the less expensive electrician that is more local will give me a new can over my sink rather than just an adjustment for it to make shorter bulbs fit in it better and fix the trim that is a mess.

I recall the GE wide flood to be 55 degree so that description is correct. Maybe someone was confusing it with the wattage which is 60. Just make sure it's the 120 volt version not 130. I don't know why Amazon is low now since I've bought them there and usually they have plenty. The vendor I linked to earlier has a good supply of them.

Thank you lee676! I really think I am going to love the bulbs and will be happy. The 3500K in my bedroom in the incandescents at first I liked but now I wish my bedroom furniture was creamier. I think I like whites around 2850K to 3000K in range since not only do I want my tile to look nice but other things in the kitchen. I like that the Halogen has a CRI of 100 and has a lot of lumens with a wide beam radius. I will let you know what I do. I may be ready to call the electrician's Monday about their cans on the phone since they ignore me in emails.