We have an 1825 Federal home and the kitchen is part of an 1840-1860's addition that was muddled with many times. We're gutting the kitchen and adding 8' out the back (shaded area) plus a small mudroom. I love to cook and we entertain a lot. Dinner for 12 - 20 is common. How does this look to you?

We're getting Cabico cherry stained cabinets - haven't decided on the stain color yet. Today I ordered my 48" Bluestar range, Prestige insert vent with 1200CFM in-line blower and 2 KA dishwashers - panel ready. I got a week to pick the color of the range - it will be a shade of red. Discussions on that can be viewed in my blog (thanks to other GWers that got me started on the blog - really easy). I'm going with a tapmaster at each sink - probably the European lever - not as noticeable. I have 2 slabs of typhoon bordeaux at the fabricators. My main sink will be a shaw's 30" farmhouse and the prep sink TBD. My faucets will be Vinnata and the pot filler Grohe.

I know our aisles are a bit tight. I keep losing inches on my island width - I don't think I can go any less. I like the 38" between island and edge of range - I mocked it up and it works for me (I'm only 5'3").

I have a brick corner and partial brick floor for the old stove in the mid 1800's. I want to keep the brick but some of the brick underfoot is in front of the range. I think that it would be uncomfortable and I may be asking for trouble on the transition. The rest of the kitchen will have wood floors (preferably salvaged ones). What do you think?

The built in bench will be made from salvaged old growth pine floor from the attic. I'm not sure what to do for a table - but I have time. All comments are welcome. thanks!

Are you the only person who will be working in the kitchen at one time? If yes, what about the future? Do you have growing children who will start helping out in the kitchen in the future (both cooking & cleaning up)? These aisles are rather tight for that. And what about all that entertaining you do...will these aisles accommodate that as well?

If you're OK with this, then fine, but I wanted to point this out to you so you're making an informed decision and won't be saying "I wish someone had told me" later.

Kitchen traffic...I notice that your family's main entrance is on the right side of the kitchen. My concern here is that your range is in what will undoubtedly become the most-used path in your kitchen...and you have a very narrow aisle there. Since the DR & rest of the house is accessed on the "top" wall, people will naturally follow the most direct path b/w the Mudroom & the DR...and that path is b/w the island & the range. No matter what you "plan" or tell people, they will naturally take the most direct path...only a physical obstacle can direct people. Couple this with the narrow aisle, I think this will be dangerous. (Think about trying to empty a pot of boiling pasta water and trying to cross that busy, narrow aisle to get to the prep sink in the island...)

You have bookshelves on the back of the island. It appears to have a seating overhang as well... First, how deep is that overhang? Second, if people are sitting there, keep in mind that anything on those shelves will be kicked...not necessarily deliberately, but it will happen.

Your prep sink base appears to be 15"...this will severely limit the size of your prep sink. Our prep sink is 15-3/4" square and I would not want it to be any smaller; as a matter of fact, I wish it were a few inches wider & deeper (front-to-back).

6" pullout...I recommend making that a 6" filler pullout, not a cabinet pullout. The opening of a 6" cabinet pullout will be significantly reduced by (1) the thickness of the cabinet walls on each side and (2) the frame of the cabinets (if you have framed & the cabinet has a frame.) With filler pullouts, you utilize the entire space b/w the adjacent cabinets w/no space lost to cabinet walls, etc.

HTH!

However, I am a little disturbed by a problem that buehl smartly honed in on: You're building a high-traffic corridor between fridge, range, and prep sink. You haven't provided your entire first-floor plan--is there any way you can open a door or something to create an exit to the back without cutting right through the work zone? I totally understand Boston housing (don't get me started) but have you looked to see if there's a simple fix for that?

BTW the banquette is brilliant.

My husband and I mocked up the DW side and someone can squeeze by when it's open - tight but workable. This is where the kids will be - clean up and some prep work.

We have 18" overhang after the bookshelf. I have so many cook books and no where to put them. This is the best place I could find for them. I know they may be kicked. I started to collect dishes so I need much of the pantry for them - we have our fall dishes, spring dishes, chinese food dishes, sushi dishes... plus 3 different grandmother's dishes. Also, yes the cabinet is a 6" filler pullout.

On a side note I was talking to the electrician this week and he was asking about more recessed lights in other rooms. I told him I'm just thrilled to have a single overhead light on a switch! (LOL) On this floor (7 rooms) we have 3 light switches - the dining room, bathroom and outside porch! Some rooms don't even have an overhead light. Anything is a step up for me.

The brick wall behind the range is another structural wall holding up the brick archway in the basement plus some of the 2nd floor. Our architect called out to recess the range, instead we'll bring out the 2 lower cabinets next to the range.

I think I can train my kids (and DH) that when I'm in "the zone" they have to walk around the island. A few whacks with a wooden spoon full of sauce should get the lesson across quickly ;)

desertsteph - we're having lots of switches. I will have to get use to them. Now I can walk thru a dark room and have my arm up exactly in the right position to grab the pull chain. LOL For the house renovation I get the kitchen and DH gets the home automation system. Both of us are engineers so our house will be a bit geeky. Below the switches are buttons that we can program. For example hit a botton from the bedroom and low level lights will come on all the way to the kitchen to the refrigerator. Hit another button and the 1st floor will have mood lighting. We will be able to control the house from a few controllers. One will be bedside so we can turn down the TV if the kids have the volume too loud (or off if it's past their bed time). My DH likes that he can control everything from the phone (HVAC, lights, music, pool, etc) before getting out of the car in the driveway.

swspitfire - I was planning on storage in those benches. I will check out the morgue drawers.

malhgold - I wanted a pocket door but it doesn't fit. The bathroom is tiny and a door swing into the PR was tight (we even mocked this up with door, toilet outline (with stool) and sink). I have young nephews and another on the way that are here a few days a week. I see 2 people in this PR and with the door swing into the room wasn't going to work. My architect didn't want the out swing, but we thought this would be the best for now. We're going to have a "weighted" door that is normally in the closed position. My in-laws have one in their kitchen and it works fine. I figure there's not much traffic into the pantry anyways. (The reason we added a bathroom here in the 1st place is that we will be adding a pool this spring and didn't want people to walk thru the whole house to the other PR). I plan to put my special dishes in a hutch at the door swing. I won't be at that hutch very often. Our food will be further in the pantry.

To everyone - what do you think about the brick floor in front of the stove? It's part of the original fabric of the summer kitchen. I would like to keep it - it comes out about an extra 2 feet in front of most of the stove and the cabinet to the left. Is this going to be and issue?

Otherwise, I think you are working with an old house with old house limitations and coming up with a great plan with reasonable compromises. We have a big family and often multiple people in the kitchen. We have a 36" aisle between island and stove and it works great. We have 48" aisles, cabinet to cabinet, for the sink/dishwashers and it is more than we need.

If you could swap the range and main sink, I think it would be much better with the traffic coming in from the family entrance. If not, I'm sure you can make it work. But, I am a mom of a busy family and am more likely the one to flex rather than train the whole bunch to take such a circuitous route clear around the island to get to the rest of the house, especially if someone may have the dishwashers open at the time. I would probably joke about the saucy wooden spoon approach, too, but if I'm realistic, it wouldn't work that way.

I would think it'd be easier to route people on the outer side of the island to the patio (won't they be coming from the house, not the back door?) than those coming from back door into the house. I guess I'm lost about the mud room to the back yard traffic. When does this happen? I'm thinking that the mud room through to the rest of the house traffic happens more during dinner prep time, while mud room to back yard happens more during the day?

ah gee - that brings back memories! I remember living in houses with the pull chain!

"Below the switches are buttons that we can program. For example hit a botton from the bedroom and low level lights will come on all the way to the kitchen to the refrigerator. Hit another button and the 1st floor will have mood lighting. We will be able to control the house from a few controllers. One will be bedside so we can turn down the TV if the kids have the volume too loud (or off if it's past their bed time). "

man, that will be really super! I'd love that! I do have to make sure I have overhead lights in my rooms and switches so I don't fall in the dark.

I was thinking it might be better to move the stove also and put it somewhere on the long wall. if it could be a possibility maybe it's something to really think about.

is the mudroom used a lot in the summer? would they more likely be going from somewhere in the house out to the pool? from the kitchen eating area (snacks) out to the pool?

(The house is now a 2 family that we're converting back to the original single. Our present door to our 2nd floor apt. is centered on the street. This stairway is moving and this door will open to our tv room. I will probably take out the stairs to the porch so people don't use that door.) When the house was built our street didn't exist for another 75 years. Have I confused you yet!

We hope all our guests will come thru the front door which is the "grand" entrance. So besides a kitchen renovation, we have a major house renovation, backyard patio/pool install and have to train our friends how to enter into our home. LOL

I'm making a quick layout that I will post as soon as I'm done. thanks!

This layout gives you a 42" aisle on what will most likely be the busiest path (regardless of spoon!). This will be the most used path not just b/c of the Mudroom, btw. It will also be well-used b/c it will be the shortest distance from the DR & the rest of the house to the refrigerator & MW! So, I think you really need to get the range out of that path!

While a 42" aisle is not ideal (I would rather see 48"), it isn't bad b/c the range is no longer in the path. With the range moved, it's now more protected. It also keeps the Prep & Cooking Zones together with easy access to the refrigerator.

The Cleanup Zone is still easily accessed from the banquette seating and it's now much easier from the DR & the rest of the house.

There's also an 18" sink base now, so you can have a bigger prep sink w/o sacrificing island space. The MW cabinet was reduced to 24" wide b/c I think that's all you'll probably need, even if you go w/a countertop model sitting on a shelf under the counter (not my ideal, btw, I'd rather see a MW drawer for easier access).

The range is now recessed into the wall like you originally wanted (that helps w/aisle space, too).

As to the brick floor...I think that's a personal thing looks-wise. Functionally...Will the brick be completely flush with the rest of the floor? Do you have back problems?

If it won't be completely flush, then I might reconsider leaving it. Although, with the sink it may not be as crucial having it completely flush as it would be if the range were there. There will be a risk of tripping or stumbling over the unevenness...so dirty/clean dishes may be safer there than hot food/pans.

If you have back problems, the brick may be problematical regardless of what's there.

HTH!

I would switch it w/the 30" cabinet so it's convenient to not just the Cleanup Zone but also the Prep & Cooking Zones...where it will be used much more often & for longer lengths of time than in the Cleanup.

will the fridge stick out or will there be a CD fridge?

boy that's some weirdness about the doors and streets! you'll have to put a really nice walkway up to the main door!! HIDE the other one - lol!

I really couldn't put the microwave right behind the cook and in front of the best prep spot, and not sure I like it to the left side of the stove either. I find it best to have mine handy to the fridge and a sink. So I would put it between stove and fridge, or where the prep sink used to be...just swapping them from original spots.

I know you didn't ask for this here... I would never encourage someone to spend extra money needlessly, but since this certainly looks like a top notch remodel with a lot of thought and care put in, I hope you're not offended. Sometimes we get stuck on an idea and forget to rethink it when it's limiting us in a way we don't want it to.

I have to think about the prep sink. I'm use to 24" max for prep area so dividing up the big island in half is not a bad thing for me. I thought the prep sink being close to a the main sink would be a negative point.

I could take out half the book case and add another 12" to have an 18" lower cabinet instead of a 6" pull out. I could swap the prep sink with this "cabinet" I will have to figure out where everything goes in this run. I REALLY like the 6" pullout for oils, etc. so I may look into the main run along the stove to put it.

I already bought my frig - it died when we started to talk to contractors (another thread. My oven died this summer too and we're crossing our fingers on the overhead pull chain light in the kitchen. Thanksgiving is on the grill this year! The kids don't even want to think about the dishwasher dying!)

The frig is white, and I had a long talk with Travers at Eurostove about painting the frig to match the range. He told me not to limit my cabinets because of the frig. I'm limiting the cabinet stain color so that the stove can "pop". I bought the Samsung fridg at 1/3 off so I think I could get close to the price on Craig's list if I decided to sell it.(personally I hate SS and the fingerprints will be the end of me - I'm not the type to run thru at night eliminating fingerprints and other issues. I never realized your suppose to dust the top of your cabinets - this after 10 years. LOL) Another reason for a white fridge - in the old days they were always white. Look at kitchens from the 1910's and 1920's - they are all white. I never saw stainless back then. I thought the white (even though we have water and ice on it) is more period appropiate. I'm "hiding" the dishwashers and the undercounter fridge with panels. The vent will be behind a cabinet. The only thing you will see is the white farmhouse sink, range and fridge. Yes, I have upper cabinets that's not periods appropriate and yes, my cabinets are frameless - again not period approriate but I think I picked the right battles.

I LOVE that you are questioning my decisions, my friends won't do it but I need it. Push me to the envelope - this is what I want. I took my kitchen design as a blank slate to 4 or 5 KD's plus my architect and you are the only ones to question ANY thing! I even suggested radiacal changes but still everyone came back to the same thing.

Finally, rhome I'm sparing some expense and I'm NOT offended by your comments - keep them coming. I'm going with stainless on kitchen finishes like faucets, etc. and my lighting will be reasonable (Savoy House). I can change the fridg - and may even paint it. I'm trying to pick my cabinets to my stove color (red) and granite color. Personally I wanted a WOW granite and everything else in the kitchen bows to it. Sorry to say (and hipocritical to most) but cabinets don't speak to me. It's the background noise) The fridge will have to follow to the rest. This is a working kitchen but I would like it to look like it fits into the rest of the house. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU for all the helpful comments - keep them coming. My electrcian and plumber are coming Monday but there is plenty of other work to do in the house.

I can't find where you've said what kind of microwave you plan...Drawer? Shelf in upper or under-counter? Either way, I think I'm still voting for next to fridge. You could even scoot the fridge so it lines up with the aisle and put the microwave on the mud room side.

For your main sink, you went from 33" to 42". Is that just to center it? I like how Buehl has the left dw a bit away from the wall...A good spot to fit a step stool? That's what we did with a 6" spot left in our last kitchen, and it was one of my favorite features of the remodel.

There's actually a 2nd microwave on the counter to the right of the main kitchen - in front of the basement stairs and where we're naming the sandwich/lunch area (bread drawer, lunch and snack items, etc.) Once the kids are out of the house that 2nd microwave will disappear. I originally planned a shelf for the mircrowave in a cabinet. I think the drawers are so expensive but if it's exposed to the rest of kitchen I may go with the drawer. I'm still open to the idea.

Yes. I increased the sink to 42" to center it and make a bigger sink from 30" to 36". The step stool will be in the pantry on the wall. In this new layout I lose an undercounter cabinet. Tonight at dinner we were going thru where everything will live. It's still livable (LOL) - you have no idea what I'm living in now and I like I said before I'm estactic with light switches on the wall!

I started on a very long critique of the original, but ran out of time and dumped it -- But Buehl and RHome said what I was going to say, and them Buehl drew it.

As to stains, etc. -- Cream painted cabinets would make your red stove pop, then maybe cherry on the island? Or cherry and hutch-style cabinetry on the sink and DW side, cream elsewhere?

And I strongly second RHome's suggestion to beautify the fridge. That location is far too visible to live with something ugly. Panels, armoire-style, or a vintage- or commercial-style fridge will add a lot to this kitchen.

Do you really need to have seating at your island? If you do without, you could put the UC fridge and UC MW side by side facing the DR entry, making a quick pitstop area for kids to get snacks and go without getting in your way. Personally, I would find it very cumbersome to have the UC MW below my main island prep area and across from the range with only a 36" aisle.

You could still have the bookshelves at the end and without the overhang, they'd be easily accessible for a quick grab before heading to the table to peruse and find the perfect recipe.

Without island seating, you could make your island longer, gaining more prep space and still not interfere with seating at the table. We only have 42" between island counter edge and table and we've found it to be plenty of space for traffic to move behind someone seated at the table.

So there you have my 2 cents' worth. ;-)

That's kind of smudgy, but I hope you can see it okay. I LOVE the way it works. I have glassware in the cabinets above the big sink, and my dishes are in drawers in the cabinet marked "pantry." Silverware is in a drawer to the left of the prep sink. Food is in the refrigerator, the pantry, and in the "bookcase" (we put doors on it, and it holds canned goods, mostly). So I have a pretty enormous kitchen, but I am in one place almost the entire time I'm cooking.

Buehl - why the 7" next to the DW? I'm not sure what I would use it for.

Rhome - I want a trash pull out and a cabinet with drawers for the kids' dishes all near the DW so it's hard to put the prep sink on the end. What I did is turn the trash pullout and added another 6" to the island. My overhang is 18". I took up half the bookshelf with another cabinet and faced the other half out towards the dining room.

lisa_a - I'm still thinking hard about getting rid of the seating at the island.

sweeby - I'm mulling over the cream cabinets on the stove side. Would it look weird if all the rest were stained including the dishwasher side? I'm worried how light colored painted cabinets would hold up (that's my main reason for going with stain).

Here's my latest layout. The prep sink will be 12" and I would have it installed as far to the right as possible. I've added 6" to the island with 52" from the table to island. Kitchen 4

A different approach would use the 24" cabinet next to the refrigerator for silverware and the kids' dishes. The only problem is that it's getting close to my "zone". I moved the sink to the end of the island. For a twist I have the prep sink cabinet face the dw but rotate the prep sink to face the range. I want a ~12" x 12" sink. Overall it would be 14 x 14. I would have it installed at the back of the cabinet. What do you think of this version? kitchen 5

In both versions I have a 2nd small microwave on top of the counter at the far right

If you could do without the island seating, as Lisa_A suggested, I think you'd really benefit in the workspace.

I would probably keep the aisle a little larger on the traffic/secondary use side than on the cook's side.

i was trying to figure out a way for you to combine the 2 15" DB's into a 30" but that would push the micro on the other side of the frig.

As a whole most of my current comments boil down to this:

Use fewer large cabinets rather than a greater number of smaller cabinets. You can store a lot more stuff and will spend a lot less money.

What is the purpose of the 6" filler pullout? IMO, that 6" could be better used if combined with the 24" 3DB to get you to a 30", which is a very useable size. Or enlarge your trash pullout or sink base to 24". (If you've got a specific need for it, what about in the space near your DW?)

Speaking of that little space by the DWs -- Why downsize your sink? If you don't need that 10" by the DW, why not go for a bigger sink?

Any uppers there? Some glass door cabinets over your DWs would be a great place for dish storage.

I kind of like the idea of opening your trash sideways (toward the DWs), but I suspect it could involve a lot of custom-cabinet headaches and might not be worth it. (But worth exploring long enough to find out.)

Those 15" drawer bases near the stove are pretty narrow to be useful. (I have my spices and oils in a pullout in an 18" cabinet, and it's hard to imagine how something 3" narrower would be good.) If you have a 15" drawer cabinet anywhere in your house now (or an 18" or 12") take a good look at those drawers to evaluate how useful they really are. (I'm betting aren't)

Will you have no uppers on the range wall? With a UC microwave? Who uses the MW and how?

Instead of an extra 18" bookcase on the walking side, what about a 24" door cabinet? I generally like having one or two of those just for storing tall bulky stuff.

sweeby - all my lower cabinets will have uppers above them except the stove will have a 54" hood. I also have a 12' x 4' walk in pantry.

6" filler pull out - I was going to use this for all my oils. Right now I have them on the counter or in the pantry. I thought it would be great to have them close to the range in ONE place.

Originally I had a 30" sink. To balance the new wall I made it 36" and the base 42". I brought it back to 33" so now I have 9" left over. I need a handy (i.e. low) place for the cookie sheets so I thought this would be a good place to put them. I have them right now in a 9" cabinet between the ref. and wall (talk about a cave!)

Everyone has made some great points on the cabinet widths. I do want them larger and couldn't figure out how to do it but I think this may work. The 15" cab next to the ref was to get the ref. away from the wall. I could do 24" here, take out the 15" next to the range but add the 6" filler and on the other side do a 30" drawer. Now the range wall will be centered. I would like the 6" filler next to the range but it needs a side cabinet so it would have to go between the microwave cab and ref.

We will have 2 microwaves - one next to the ref and the other in the alcove to the far right. This one will be a small countertop one. Once the kids are out of the house I can go down to 1 microwave. We have food allergies in the family and I'm contstantly making many different dishes.

Also, with respect to turning your trash pullout--does your island have door fronts all the way round? Otherwise the switch in direction may be noticeable.

Sorry if you've already made that clear, these long threads make me very confoozed.

I also like the trash as you have it drawn. I have mine next to my prep sink and I use it a lot while I am prepping--for recycling jars/cans as well as throwing refuse in the trash that I don't want to put down my disposal.