At least George is less depressing than the "Do you feel invisible?" thread in the Decorating forum. I think they're about to commit mass suicide over there.

So what do we think is next?

White kitchen?

A material?

Tract house?

Something like Angie's "a better choice?"

How about, How to revamp a golden oak kitchen WITHOUT changing the golden oak? This would be hard but the rules could be no painting no staining. All else is acceptable such as adding some glass or other to the cabinets but the color cannot be changed.

I had the ironic (and perhaps unkind) thought that the DYFI thread should be pulled for being off topic.

Here is a link that might be useful: Marmoleum Graphic series

Summarizing some things that have been suggested in previous threads and here:

White kitchen
Pink kitchen
Knotty pine
Keeping the golden oak
Metal cabinetry
A tract house
Wacky linoleum (I had suggested the Marmoleum croco or the
graphic series)
Interesting tile (I posted a few in the 1920's thread; one of them turned up in BalTra's thread)
Vetrazzo
Back-painted glass
GreenDesigns table from the 1920s thread.

I'd be okay with any of these, but I think I like the white or pink kitchen best.

I think the DYFI folks need to read the "poured milk on salad" thread. A sure cure for SAD.

How about Angie's "a better choice" for someone who wants a golden oak kitchen? jterrilynn, your suggestion just sounds too difficult. Which is I suppose why it might be a good challenge.

An intervention, Sochi? Really? For golden oak?

A decade of homeowners thought they were awesome; they really can't be as bad as crack or meth.

Why are we torturing ourselves with things we don't like. We should be enjoying ourselves with projects we will never do IRL.

I like your thinking mtn. a few of my dreamy projects:

- rustic modern cottage (or cabin I think you call them in the US)- not a high end coastal retreat, or some over the top log cabin, but a real cottage that many middle class families retreat to for summer holidays and spring/fall weekends

- have we done a steampunk kitchen for real yet?

- modern Victorian kitchen

Hey, don't knock my "George and Cassie" scenario! I didn't think it was a downer at all. It's about making raspberry lemonade out of lemons and doing the best that you can when life hands you those lemons. There are a LOT more people in "reduced economic circumstances" than there are in the "money is no object" design world.

Which is why I want to propose another choice for one of these exercises. Anyone can pull together a fabulous look when throwing money at it. :) It's much harder to do when you have a limited budget. You want that hand made wrought iron sconce? Gulp! It's 2K, which is more than you've budgeted for your range.

So, I definitely vote for the "Golden Oak Transformation" as a challenge, but don't make it a condition to leave them "as is". People want options for dealing with them, and painting IS an option.

I also propose doing a "Low Budget Challenge" where you have to design using a 10K budget and yet get new cabinets and counters and floors with that---and show your prices. A lot more people have that kind of budget than have a 50K kitchen type of budget, and those are the people who need help in expanding their creativity to be able to still make their home look pulled together without a large cash infusion.

I'll admit I'm biased for this, because I will do 3 15K kitchens before I'll do a 45K one. Sadly, way too many of them are uninspired and basically drab kitchens because that's what the homeowner wants. It's scary spending large amounts of money, so they want something "safe" to guarantee that it won't be "wasted". But, there is the occasional one that delights me, where budget or not, it's a GREAT kitchen. Economics is a pretty restrictive box, right? And it's hard to work your way out the confines of that box and be original. Let's see how the KF does!

We should be enjoying ourselves with projects we will never do IRL.

I don't think this is what these threads are about, though we can use them that way. I think all of them so far have provided examples of perfectly realistic kitchens that someone could do in their own homes as an alternative to the OTK.

Though I agree, we shouldn't torture ourselves.

How about "a better choice" OTK? Use houses that are not Edwardian or Victorian and show how a OTK can fit into them better?

I like some of the other suggestions as well.

I guess it depends what you consider enjoyment :)

I enjoy the challenge of working with a set of parameters, because if I do work for other people, that's what I am given. When I was in design school, we had projects like "1810 historic preservation", "Mid-century rambler", "Industrial Loft", and there were students who completed all of these projects so that they looked nearly identical to each other and wondered why they didn't get selected for "Best of..." when they worked very hard and did a good project. But they didn't really follow the program except for the space planning criteria.

So I think if we worked with materials we loved, I would turn out a kitchen with Soapstone counters and painted cabinets most of the time.

I think by being given a set of parameters we *are* doing projects many of us would never do in real life, but we are trying to create a kitchen we Do like out of some elements that we don't. I have liked every kitchen I have done in these threads based upon what the parameters have been...maybe not enough to build it.

I guess we could do a "fantasy kitchen" project but I almost think that would be too easy, no budget, no limits, etc.

Does this make sense?:)

Some folks have also mentioned French country.

Should we vote or something? This 1991 forum software doesn't let you insert a poll.

Exactly Pal! Every design that happens in the Real World will happen under some kind of set parameters. "Design Without Limits" can free up some intense creativity--like using heat molded Corian for a organic flowing counters and cabinets or the using backlit stainless framed onyx slabs for a buffet--but not many people have the balls or deep pockets for something like that in their Foursquare.

Parameters are puzzles waiting to be unlocked with the right key. It's confining, but you work harder to overcome those confines than you would if they didn't exist.

Fair points. But I actually don't think a lot of the kitchens done to date were realistic, at least by live-wire-oak's standards.

You guys are interested in exercising your design chops. I just like shopping and looking at pretty things...

mtnredux raises the interesting point of whether we should start with something pretty to begin with, or start with a real-world parameter that may not be so pretty, like existing '80s oak cabinets or an unassuming tract home. Fair enough. I could go either way, and we can probably alternate.

That said, mtnrdredux, I think you underestimate the feasibility of most of these kitchens. With some exceptions, they are eminently realistic. The ones I've done can be pointed-and-clicked pretty much right off the Web, and not for any more money than most Gwebbers spend anyway. I think you may be reacting simply to the fact that they are different, and somehow associate "different" with inherently unachievable.

*cough* *cough*

I'd love to see what ya'll would do with a "modern Victorian kitchen."

Marcolo,

In your case I thought that floor seemed pretty pricey for labor and materials, not to mention it would not work at all in a small kitchen. I think it assumes a pretty big expanse. But on rereading i see you are using faux stuff.

I really like that floor!

Not that I've had the time to do a story board lately, but my vote is that the next one be something less hard, and more "pretty". Non over the top Tuscan is hard! And, it's kinda austere as well.

Since Marcolo and Palimpsest started this whole thing, I also vote for them to make the Executive Decision about the schedule of The List of Challenges. Alternating sounds good to me. One hard and challenging, one easier and prettier.

And that's why I like the Modern Victorian. It should be nicely decorative and frilly if we're matching Victorian exteriors. If we're doing a servant's scullery, that might be another story!

According to the news today I live in the 3rd worst housing market and rate #11 as the worst run state...so I really get doing a budget kitchen. However, in real life I wouldn't have time for an online exercise with that much detail and research involved in staying under ten grand and having to prove it. Still though I do think the whole idea is to try and help others with kitchen inspirations and even better if we do somehow address people on a budget. Very often it is the golden oak owners or the natural maple owners that ask for help on updating until they can some day get a new kitchen. We could keep low budget in mind though.
P.S. I have to be honest and admit that I'm also using these exercises to improve myself and learn. When I feel I know more I will comment more on others designs. If I know little and am in the learning phase of certain centuries or style types I cannot comment on whether You did a good job. For all I know it may look good but be way off of the requested look it's meant to have. I am learning a lot though and I'm getting much more confident.

I'm actually indifferent as to what is done next, since I should probably stop spending so much time at it.

Also, I don't know how to photoshop and that would be helpful.

I will add that the budget think will be a ton more work, since i dont know how to price things like cabs, or labor.

Maybe we should just take the whole list, order it in some reasonable fashion to mix up styles/eras/materials, and use that as our roadmap for the next 15 weeks. This wouldn't be set in stone, and could be revised as new ideas come in. And, of course, my proposed order is negotiable.

1) White kitchen (white kitchens appropriate for homes that are not Edwardian)
2) Keeping the golden oak
3) Tract house (specify decade? or any tract house?)
4) Interesting tile (pick specific tile or line of tile)
5) Pink Kitchen
6) Knotty pine
7) Queen Anne
8) Metal cabinetry
9) Vetrazzo
10) French Country
11) Interesting tile (pick specific tile or line of tile)
12) Starting from clothing fashions as your inspiration pic, design a kitchen that suits the era/mood/style
13) 1930s kitchen
14) Wacky linoleum (Marmoleum croco or the graphic series)
15) Rustic Modern Cottage
16) Back-painted glass
17) 1970s home

It occurs to me that we could also describe who is going to live in the house: Age, family status, profession, general tastes (I'm thinking of the bachelor pad from the earlier thread, and of poor George). But leave the choice of what type of house to the designer.

I left off the modern Victorian kitchen, because it sounds like a mash-up, and I'm not sure how y'all feel about mash-ups. There's a mission-style Queen Anne I drive by regularly and ponder what kind of interior would suit. I'd be okay doing a mash-up, if there is some reason that the whole house is a mash-up and you're not just putting a modern kitchen in a Victorian that hasn't otherwise been updated.

Wow, so many wonderful kitchens! I wish I could play, but I have people ripping my porch off, as we speak. Need to get back out and see how things are going...but I'd love to design a kitchen (colors, style, etc.) that would go with the house (Bramasole) from Under the Tuscan Sun. I wouldn't want the kitchen in the movie, but I really like the dining room :)
{{gwi:1980862}}From Kitchen plans
{{gwi:1980863}}From Kitchen plans

I would also favor alternating. In literature, there is a rich tradition of following self-imposed rules to force you to be creative enough to produce worthwhile art while still hewing to those rules. (c.f., the sestina, just to name one of many, many examples.) And, like jterrilynn, I am essentially only trying to learn a little about what looks like nice design. (Uuhh, it's a work in progress....) And, as LWO and others have pointed out, in the real world you ALWAYS have constraints. They didn't make Pal do those design exercises to make the projects easier to grade.

On the other hand, sometimes you need to remove constraints. Not all great literature is written in iambic pentameter.

My son is finally closing on his townhome today so I'm going to be real busy as laborer. He will not be able to afford a new kitchen for a while but he will fall under the "bachelor pad" and "70's kitchen" category above. Actually the TH was built in 1980 but was the last phase of the 70's TH community, so it's pretty much a 70's kitchen. It's the type with the picture of wood look on particle board cabinets. Hope I'm not so busy I miss that episode here.

My stuff in the Tuscan Kitchen was from Ann Sacks Basics and the floor is about $4 a foot; cabinets from Plain & Fancy, but you could probably get this look a little cheaper--their pictures are just easy to copy. I really don't think I have done anything unachievable except the Jamie Wyeth piece. I think any kitchen I have done in these threads would price out comparably to a lot of the finished kitchens we see posted in here.

I wouldn't be able to stick to a certain budget also because of the labor.

As for not having time, I have some piece of "Student Outcomes" educational psychobabble to complete for my department by Friday and working on these projects has certainly assured that I will Not be done with it. Along with various other paper work and IRL things.

However I would not have worked on it anyway because philosophically I think this type of teach-think dumbs down education and I am not at all interested in doing it anyway.

I am up for any of the above projects, but I do think it would be too complex to price it out other than generalizing that laminate will be less than quartz and hardware that can be easily shopped on line, and the differential between appliances, etc.

What about rough materials pricing only and assuming that it's all DIY labor? With a small budget, that is a likely scenario. Ikea cabinets are online. There are a slew of other online cabinet sellers who will have "10x10" cabinet pricing (which we can then double for an actual kitchen). You can roughly price tile, flooring and other materials from a gazillion online sources. It's especially easy to do if you use Google images to search for a certain product and then find it and search for that under Shopping. Yes, it's a little more work, but it's a good mental stretching exercise, especially for those on champagne tastes and budgets. :)

cawaps - for my modern Victorian suggestion, I didn't really mean a mash up. I'm specifically thinking of a real Victorian New World house (my neighbourhood is full of them, mostly built from 1865 to 1905 or so). If you just moved into one of these lovely old homes with a run down kitchen, how would you renovate respecting the era/essence of the structure, but ultimately designing a modern (rather than modernist) kitchen? But a modernist interpretation of a Victorian kitchen would be okay and interesting too I think.

This is a IRL situation for me and all my neighbours - although my house was built in 1877 as a worker's home, all evidence of the Victorian era was long gone when we bought it in 2009, so we didn't go Victorian. While most with these sorts of homes in my city could probably afford to spend $20-30K on a reno, these are not "rich" people who can just throw money at making it beautiful. $50K would be too expensive, compromises are required.

Agree that trying to keep to a rough budget is okay, but it would take too much effort to do this properly I think.

Thoughts?

Adding more:

18) $10K budget
19) Animal prints! (we can put the Marmoleum Croco here)
20) Ikea kitchen (all Ikea?)
21) Mid-life crisis bachelor pad

"Mid-life crisis bachelor pad."

LOL! Where did that come from? Would the counterpoint to that be mid life cougar pad? :)

The mid-life crisis bachelor pad came partly from my suggestion of coming up with a character and designing for them; and also from jterrilyn's son (not the mid-life crisis part). And yes, we could do an either/or bachelor or cougar pad, if you feel that would be more equitable.

And Sochi, thanks for the clarification. Modern, as in modernizing, with modern amenities. I have seen modernist renovations of Victorian homes presented in home and design magazines (Dwell? Fine Homebuilding?), and wasn't sure if that was what you meant. Mostly those don't show any of their Victorian heritage. I did put a Queen Anne on the list, which we could change up to a folk Victorian if we want.

I don't think Modern Victorian should fall off the list. I think the Rules should stipulate something mid-range in budget, though. We've all seen lots of extremely expensive period reproductions online and in magazines, so what's the point of copying and pasting that?

Within that category, I would hope to see kitchens that are

1) fairly period, but neither $100K reproductions nor the loving handiwork of a decade of salvage. Otherwise you just get to "assume" the homeowner found a wall's worth of encaustic tile in perfect condition for a backsplash, or that they magically hired a local cabinet maker to build in-place cabinets that were the exact replica of the butler's pantry. That's not a realistic design project limitation.

2) not period but specifically designed to fit into the house somehow

But I'm happy to do another one first on the list. I just want palimpsest to vote before I do.

The other source for the bachelor pad idea (which I think got the idea rolling around in my subconscious) was Kode's design for the Formica thread:

I also think it would be great if we could somehow get the lurkers to give some feedback and ask questions. I hope other people are reading the thread beside the contributors.

I think they are--have you noticed a few posters doing their own mood boards recently? I thought that was great.

I still want you to vote first. I don't have the energy to go back up the thread and weigh support.

BTW, and this will relate to you shortly, I am now afraid to open any thread on GW except this one. They all seem to reply to any question about grout or backsplashes with some tale of dread disease, damaging familial relationships, unmet emotional needs, SAD or social isolation. So, seeing your name come up right after coming to this conclusion, I have had the idea to start posting under a new username more appropriate to the board: "Solipsist."

lav las......where is the cute Polish boy to help us decide?

Since white kitchen and pink kitchen were suggested before modern Victorian, I would probably want to do one of those first. I do want to try the Victorian project at some point but we may need to flesh out the parameters on this one a bit more.

If someone wants to set some parameters for the white kitchen that is not the SGTG kitchen or some parameters for the pink kitchen that would be great. I would like to suggest that the pink kitchen Not be a 1960 fantasy-redux.

I'm reading! I'm reading!
Lurking and learning.
I love these threads.
I'd selfishly add a colorful kitchen to the list. Since you're doing an all white one . . .

Enjoying the back stories you create for the kitchens.
Fascinated by the debates about what is trendy/cliche/spendy/creative. And the photos defining what a particular style actually is.

Tho I don't understand exactly why the kitchen has to match the style of the house. So many houses in the US are b.o.r.i.n.g. and without character. Or if the house is a sweet country french style (does this exist?), but the owner can't stand country-chic, why have to stay within this style?

Looking forward to the next one y'all come up with. And if I find the time I might try to do a story, too.

"Eclectic" to the list? In the spirit of Poor George and Cassie, & good old American resourcefulness (sans credit cards, I mean).

OK. Let's make the next challenge the non-OTK white kitchen. What parameters?

- No soapstone
- No marble
- No laminate that looks like either of the above
- No subways
- It must fit the age and style of the house. No Edwardian sculleries in a '20s Tudor or '50s ranch or 2011 new build.
- Color must be used somewhere

Do those sound right to you guys?

Pick a style of house too.

I'm mostly a lurker around here, and I am loving these threads. Many thanks to those of you who are posting. I have no design background and not a ton of imagination when it comes to this stuff, but these threads have been really educational and fun for me to read.

I second dee850.

Thank you, thank you to those of you who are doing all the heavy lifting on these threads. I have zero understanding of design but have attempted (not for publication here) some idea boards as a result of these threads. And my husband is saying they will make the final results in our someday-will-be completed kitchen better.

OG

Silly question, if color has to be used somewhere, how is it a White Kitchen

Do you mean a scullery kitchen or a peacock kitchen?

Wall color, textile, etc. Not a white on white on white painted, subway, marble, white walls kitchen is what I think Marcolo means.

White kitchen with colourful features (not just accents) - walls or appliances or backsplash, perhaps some coloured cabinets is my take. Purple ceiling, who knows. I've got something brewing, launch away...

Yes, exactly. The term "white kitchen" has been around a long, long time, and when I was a kid, a "white kitchen" could include aqua Formica or floral wallpaper or red linoleum floors or whatever.

Oh-kay. I'll get to work on the post.

Oh, I was thinking of not specifying the house style, just specifying what it was not. When did the sanitary movement really get going? I want a house that is not late Vic, Craftsman era or early '20s--nothing near Edwardian.

Poor George? What about poor Fortunato?

{{gwi:1980828}}

Cawaps - forgot to mention how much I like the cabs in your kitchen! Lol
I think pairing the walnut with that sienna marble would be stunning, I love the combination. If only I had seen it two years ago! The megatile is cool too. Makes me wonder how long I will be content with no backsplash. I'm dreaming of colour now.

Somehow I'm reminded of tonight's episode of "Happy Endings" where one of the characters can speak Italian only when she's hammered.

The new thread is up, btw.

For the moment, perhaps I'll wander over to Decorating and see if they've put the purple cloths over their heads yet.